Tips and builds (413)

[Dave]

I'll be building a spare 413 in my garage for a spare once the trans. goes out in either car. I want it to be tough. From what I've gathered so far I would like to modify my transmission in this way that follows.

RMVB
OBX LSD
Big trans. cooler with temp. probe and gauge
FWD Motion Stage 1 torque converter

Now the stuff I don't know or am still not sure about in our trans. (I've only rebuilt a Neon trans).

When installing additional clutches in the rear clutch pack how do most people compensate? Do you either mill down the reaction plate or install thinner steels? Wouldn't thinner steels generate more heat between clutches?

Since the rear pack is always locked in all forward gears and the front pack is engaged only in reverse and 3rd is it beneficial at all to install the additional clutch in the front pack?

Is there any concern with the overunning clutch and crushing the balls? *ouch* :eyebrows: It is engaged only in 1st, so my thought is this gear produces the most torque and if I'm shootin' off 1.8 60's am I going to break it?

Is there a front and rear planetary gearset in the 413's? Again I'm only comparing to the Neon trans as it uses a Simpson style gearset. If there is I'm sure it would be beneficial to install both as 5 pinion carriers?

I've heard of heating up the return spring in the rear drum in order to make it react quicker. Does this seem logical?

I've snapped an output shaft towards the diff. before, is cryotreating the only method to make them stronger?

I've also broken flex plates where they bolt to the crank and torque converter drive hubs at their case, are there any preventions to this?

Sorry for all the long questions. I've just been thinking a lot and needed to get it all out there. Thanks for any help!

[turboshadow]

When installing additional clutches in the rear clutch pack how do most people compensate? Do you either mill down the reaction plate or install thinner steels? Wouldn't thinner steels generate more heat between clutches

Thinner steels is the way to go as for the other stuff when i built up my 413 I asked Rob P he is the man to ask:thumb:

[turbovanman²]

Most of that stuff is covered by me in the old FAQ's, around page 4, 5. Frank won't condense it so there it sits. It also has links to Carls site and the reusable pan gasket. Neon trans is the same.

Use 404 steels too add 5 discs.

Cryo treat the pinion shaft and make sure its the solid one.

Some say 5 in the front isn't needed but if doing it, why not.

I don't believe anyone has had trouble with the sprag.

There are 2 planetaries, 4 pinion in the rear and you can get a 5 pinion for the front-get the pins fully welded or the crappy half factory weld will break and then kaboom. DON'T use the Neon rear planetary, its cast and very weak, use the A413.

Use new flexplates and make sure the dowels are in place.

Do the valve body mods and the clutch spring trick isn't really needed. I've done a few and they shift very fast 2-3 without modding the spring.

Do Chads line pressure mod, going to try that on the next build.

[Dave]

Most of that stuff is covered by me in the old FAQ's, around page 4, 5. Frank won't condense it so there it sits. It also has links to Carls site and the reusable pan gasket. Neon trans is the same.

Use 404 steels too add 5 discs.

Cryo treat the pinion shaft and make sure its the solid one.

Some say 5 in the front isn't needed but if doing it, why not.

I don't believe anyone has had trouble with the sprag.

There are 2 planetaries, 4 pinion in the rear and you can get a 5 pinion for the front-get the pins fully welded or the crappy half factory weld will break and then kaboom. DON'T use the Neon rear planetary, its cast and very weak, use the A413.

Use new flexplates and make sure the dowels are in place.

Do the valve body mods and the clutch spring trick isn't really needed. I've done a few and they shift very fast 2-3 without modding the spring.

Do Chads line pressure mod, going to try that on the next build.

Thanks for the quick help. I've talked to Rob Pachner a bunch, in fact he taught me my intro. to building trannies. I am in the middle of my automatic trans. course and I'm learning so much. It's funny actually, how easy and simple our trannies are.

What car is the 404 from? Also where can I find the solid pinion shaft? Are there any concerns with the pinion gear and carrier?

Nobody has made steel carriers for the rear planetary? In the Neons, is it the actually carrier that's the problem or are the needle bearings the problem?

I read the guy with the Twin Turbo Shadow's page. The only thing I found in there was the rear band. He mention the more rigid one was seemingly better for power. While I've been taught that the more flexible ones are able to wrap the drum stronger.

Thanks again!

[Dave]

Also, what pattern on the friction clutches are the best for street/strip use?

[turbovanman²]

Thanks for the quick help. I've talked to Rob Pachner a bunch, in fact he taught me my intro. to building trannies. I am in the middle of my automatic trans. course and I'm learning so much. It's funny actually, how easy and simple our trannies are.

What car is the 404 from? Also where can I find the solid pinion shaft? Are there any concerns with the pinion gear and carrier?

Nobody has made steel carriers for the rear planetary? In the Neons, is it the actually carrier that's the problem or are the needle bearings the problem?

I read the guy with the Twin Turbo Shadow's page. The only thing I found in there was the rear band. He mention the more rigid one was seemingly better for power. While I've been taught that the more flexible ones are able to wrap the drum stronger.

Thanks again!
A404 is the early 80's A413.

The A413 has steel rear planetary carriers, the Neon has cast, do not use.

Haven't had an issue with the rear band yet, knock on wood.

Solid pinions come in some A413's and all Neon trans. Remember to match the ring and pinion.

Also use the Sonnax rear band strut, you will bend the stocker.



Also, what pattern on the friction clutches are the best for street/strip use?

I just get the HD ones from my tranny supplier, there silver in colour for the rear clutch.

[Speedeuphoria]

78-80 a404 for the thinner steels, you may need to use 1-2 of the normal sized steels to keep the clearance down(depends on the thickness of the solid snap ring). Ditch the wave snap ring for a solid one.

I believe Rob likes stock clutches(not sure on brand as there is raybestos and Borg Warner, maybe others?).

May need to weld the kickdown band and grind the lever a little(on Carls page).

You can get the bands relined, or they do offer one of them w/ Kevlar you can buy.

Check out the New OBX KC article I just updated

I'm not aware of any issues with the "cast 5 pinion planetary" but everyone says not to use it, i have one in mine so we shall see, thanks Simon I wasn't aware that all the neon ones were cast, I have a brand new one and its cast also. I asked the pro welder that I had weld it up what he thought and he said it would be OK(so who knows?).