Super 60

[black86glhs]

Not really asking if they still make the super 60 wiring harness(L-body), but was wondering if there are still any out there? I know you could graft a later smec style harness but I like the idea of the ready to go harness. Anyone know?

[turbovanman²]

The question is, why do you want one?

8valves is selling an S60 harness if you want one.

[black86glhs]

Being a GM guy, I like the single module idea. The older GLHS stuff is ok, it works. Just like the idea. Kind of wondering if its worth it, too.

[black86glhs]

:bump2:

[black86glhs]

I saw a few other threads. It doesn't have to be an S60 harness. Looks like the 89 Mini Van harness can be made to work. Anyone have some info? What is the magic word to get some info...beer?

[iTurbo]

Coughcoughsomebudscoughcough

That is what I run in my Omni; a modified 89 turbo Caravan harness. It works great and I was able to make it look almost stock. To the non-TMer, I don't think anybody would realize it's a modified harness from a van. Essentially I just had to change out the Caravan's 50-pin bulkhead plug for the Omni's 40-pin plug and modify the pinout so that it would plug into the firewall. The Caravan harness is 'largish' for an L-body bay, but it's easy enough to hide or trim sections as needed for better fitment. You also end up with some redundant things like extra turn signal connectors, A/C condenser fan plug, and relays that have to be mounted in non-stock locations.

Another option that is a little more involved is modifying an '88-'89 TBI Omni/Horizon underhood harness (SMEC) for Turbo use. This involves incorporating turbo specific wiring into the TBI harness such as an additional injector driver circuit, fuel rail connector, HEP wiring, wastegate solenoid, knock sensor, and relocating some things like the O2 sensor. The nice thing about doing it this way is that you end up with a harness that is actually made for an L-body, so you don't have to mess with the lighting stuff and all the relays and solenoids are already in the right spot. Also the '88-'89 Omni/Horizon underhood harness also uses the same 50-pin bulkhead connector that the Caravan uses, so you'll still have to deal with that. I made an adapter to do this and make it plug'n'play.

Right now I'm modifying a '90 Omni TBI harness (SBEC) for Turbo III use. Good times.

[black86glhs]

Jeremy...thanks for the info.:hail: ~I can visualize a beer truck breaking down near where you live.~:thumb:
I understand that doing this upgrades to newer, faster ecu, but does it run any better and/or make it more reliable(yeah I know...)?:confused2:
As for modifying, not a problem. I had to cut and splice another harness last year just to get to this point.

[mock_glh]

... the '88-'89 Omni/Horizon underhood harness also uses the same 50-pin bulkhead connector that the Caravan uses, so you'll still have to deal with that. I made an adapter to do this and make it plug'n'play.

Why not use an '88-'90 dash harness with the Caravan underhood harness. That would be plug and play, assuming the pinout is the same.

[iTurbo]

Yeah, that could work too. At the time I figured it would be less work to just convert the bulkhead (or make the adapter) than to remove the dash and harness. Here are some pics of the bulkhead adapter I made:

http://www.turbosedan.com/jerm/imcarpix/adpater1.jpg
http://www.turbosedan.com/jerm/imcarpix/adapter3.jpg
http://www.turbosedan.com/jerm/imcarpix/adapter2.jpg

[iTurbo]

If you decide to modify an '88-'89 TBI L-body harness, here are the parts that have to be cut out of a Turbo II harness and grafted into the TBI harness.

http://www.turbosedan.com/jerm/imcarpix/OverlayHarness.jpg

This probably isn't for everybody, but it shows what is possible if you have free/junkyard parts at your disposal. The SMEC connector has to be changed out (or modified) because the TBI SMEC connector is physically 'keyed' differently than the turbo SMEC connector, although the actual pinout roughly the same.

[WickedShelby88]

In my case my dash is already missing. I guess having a SMEC would simplify things as opposed to having wires running into your car as well as out to some box under the hood. Do you think it runs any better with the SMEC?

[turbovanman²]

Yeah, that could work too. At the time I figured it would be less work to just convert the bulkhead (or make the adapter) than to remove the dash and harness. Here are some pics of the bulkhead adapter I made:

http://www.turbosedan.com/jerm/imcarpix/adpater1.jpg
http://www.turbosedan.com/jerm/imcarpix/adapter3.jpg
http://www.turbosedan.com/jerm/imcarpix/adapter2.jpg

Thought about making a few of those, thats very nice, :thumb: :hail:

[iTurbo]

Thanks, I originally made the adapter to test a custom harness I made for a guy years ago over on TD.com. He had an '88 Omni TBI converting to turbo, so I had to make the adapter to test the harness in my '86 GLH Turbo. I'll be using it again for the '90 Omni harness I'm installing. If anybody decides to try making one, I would suggest making it as short as possible because mine kinda interferes with the clutch cable bracket.

As far as running better with the SMEC...that's hard to say. If the car is/was running top notch with the LM/PM setup, I doubt it would be that much better with SMEC. I do notice that the SMEC and SBEC seem 'faster' with regards to using an OTC scanner. The parameters update faster and the buttons are more responsive. I also converted my SL from LM/PM to SBEC and the car runs great although a little rich because I'm using a 2.5L TI SBEC on a 2.2L. The 02 sensor seems to cycle rich/lean very fast compared to the LM/PM setup. I don't know if this is because the SBEC is sequential or what.

[risen]

As far as running better with the SMEC...that's hard to say. If the car is/was running top notch with the LM/PM setup, I doubt it would be that much better with SMEC. I do notice that the SMEC and SBEC seem 'faster' with regards to using an OTC scanner. The parameters update faster and the buttons are more responsive. I also converted my SL from LM/PM to SBEC and the car runs great although a little rich because I'm using a 2.5L TI SBEC on a 2.2L. The 02 sensor seems to cycle rich/lean very fast compared to the LM/PM setup. I don't know if this is because the SBEC is sequential or what.

I'm not surprised to hear that the scanner is faster with a smec. The SMEC's baud rate of the serial comms is almost 10x of the LM's.

I'm not sure why the o2 is faster but my guess is it's due to differences in the code and the speed of the processor between the LM and SMEC/SBEC based ECU.

[turbovanman²]

I'm not surprised to hear that the scanner is faster with a smec. The SMEC's baud rate of the serial comms is almost 10x of the LM's.

I'm not sure why the o2 is faster but my guess is it's due to differences in the code and the speed of the processor between the LM and SMEC/SBEC based ECU.


Its the speed of the processor. If you check the ox with a labscope at the sensor, it will be the same on both computers but when looking at the data, you have to take in to account scanner read rate and computer baud rate.

[iTurbo]

One thing that I think that is worth mentioning, is that the SMEC & SBEC harnesses are much LESS bulky that their LM/PM counterparts. I have no doubt that the modified Caravan harness in my Omni weighs less than the Omni's original turbo harness. This is mostly due to the fact that the SMEC/SBEC harness does away with the long wiring runs between the LM and PM. Less wiring and redundancy = more reliability which is probably the biggest reason Chrysler made the change to SMEC. Also be aware that swapping to SMEC or SBEC means having to plug the big hole left in the firewall vacated by the LM wiring. The SMEC and SBEC harnesses have better weatherpack connectors too (especially SBEC).

[black86glhs]

Great info guys. Jeremy, In the future, I may be looking at the adapter you make. I need to get it running first. After it is running, I will be looking at a possible swap.

[BadAssPerformance]

Good tech in this thread guys! :thumb:

But why no love for the '87 T-II LM? ;)

[iTurbo]

I have some pictures of the "Super 60" harness I made from an '88 Omni TBI harness on my old Mac. I will try to post them this week if it still works after sitting in the closet a few years.

[iTurbo]

Greetings from 1999 (Mac OS 8.6 & Internet Explorer 5.1). Well I dug my old computer out of the closet and got the pics hosted on my site.

Here is a directory of pics that show an '88 Omni TBI harness installed under the hood of my old '85 GLH (H.O.) Notice the firewall mouted MAP, single HEP connector, and the funky connector where the fuel rail connector would normally be, which is used for the TPS/AIS/Throttle body temp sensor/O2 sensor on a TBI car.

www.turbosedan.com/jerm/imcarpix/TBIHarness

....and here is a directory of pics of the same harness, converted to run TII electronics (also updated to 4-wire O2).

www.turbosedan.com/jerm/imcarpix/CompletedS60

I should have labeled stuff so you can easily tell what you are looking at. Any questions I would be glad to help.

[WickedShelby88]

This is definitely good info. The super 60 is a SMEC based upgrade correct? In that case I think I will definitely be going SMEC in my 86 SC and look to go SBEC in my 88 lancer. I figure the weatherpacks and the reduction in wiring of both cars will be an upgrade at the very least as well as make things easier to troubleshoot. The S60 doesn't read the O2 right? Would it be hard to rewrite it to read the O2 at all? At least that way you have programming setup for the hotter cam and turbo combo along with the better driveability of having the O2 in the loop as well to make it idle significantly better I would think as well as around town driving.

[turbovanman²]

Anyone of the cal writers can make a S60 copy with Ox feedback so no worries there. Things have advanced in the last few years, :thumb:

Just like I am getting a TIII SBEC cal for my 89 SMEC, :clap:

[WickedShelby88]

Anyone of the cal writers can make a S60 copy with Ox feedback so no worries there. Things have advanced in the last few years, :thumb:

Just like I am getting a TIII SBEC cal for my 89 SMEC, :clap:

Swwwweet. I like the sound of that already.