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View Full Version : Time for a new clutch (I think...)



powermaxx
12-22-2005, 02:51 PM
First post on this board (feels like home).

Anyway I have an RPS 4 puck version clutch in there now (works great) and have noticed that after a few hard drops (5200rpm) that instead of the clutch engaging at close to the top of the "Pedal throw" (almost all the way out) it seems to start dragging a little with the pedal only about an inch off the floor. I let it sit for a day and all is back to "normal".

I'm thinking the pads have dug into the face of the flywheel and the little bit of heat expansion from the "abuse" is causing it to drag.

I'm pulling the trans soon to install my OBX diff and was thinking of ordering a clutch (just in case...)

Anyone give a comparison of the RPS 4 puck version vs the McLeod Rev Lok II?

THX!

8valves
12-23-2005, 02:29 PM
I can't give you a direct comparison, but i can tell you that my Relentless 4 puck ate away the pressure plate, not the flywheel.

I installed the FWD dual diagphram PP now and it's pretty beefy to drive around every day, but the grip is worth it. I would suggest getting it apart and taking a peak at the disc. If it's fine just buy that PP and throw her back in. I can almost guarentee that you won't have any more engagement issues!

Aaron Miller

iniviate
12-23-2005, 02:42 PM
how bad is driving the Dual Diaphragm daily?

will the dual diaphragm with, say, a ceramic disc hold more power than a rev-lok?

8valves
12-23-2005, 04:15 PM
Well, sorry to put it this way, but are you a pansy? :D

I drive it every day during the nice seasons, but I'm young and dumb. It's a bear in traffic if you need to hold it and release all the time, but other than that I love it. It's a sacrifice, you can either know it's never going to slip and deal with some chatter and abusive roughness, or wonder if you're going to out do it and have your TD that doesn't ride like a cadillac engage it's clutch like a cadillac... that is if your cadillac had a clutch! Did you get that?

Basically I don't mind it at all, but some people might. Flat out, it's not easy to drive it, you have to get used to it. It's got a heavier pedal than my brother's 3200 lb ACT PP with a steel 6 puck, the same clutch John Shepherd runs on his 7.9 second talon... but it grabs hard as hell when you snatch the next gear! :thumb:

Aaron Miller

GLHSKEN
12-23-2005, 04:17 PM
That PP has about 2200 lbs clamping force... Once you are over 400 ft lbs.. You will need it. The disk s/b fine as mentioned..

Una
12-23-2005, 07:20 PM
Your dumping the clutch at 5200RPM, and are surprised to find problems? I'd expect problems when dumping the clutch at that kind of RPM.. It's called abuse..

GLHSKEN
12-23-2005, 07:54 PM
That's THE way to launch when you drag the car.. AND he does!!!

The S is Silent
12-23-2005, 08:00 PM
When I pulled the trans off of the engine out of my van, both the pressure plate and the flywheel where dug into pretty badly.

iniviate
12-23-2005, 09:41 PM
Well, sorry to put it this way, but are you a pansy? :D

I drive it every day during the nice seasons, but I'm young and dumb. It's a bear in traffic if you need to hold it and release all the time, but other than that I love it. It's a sacrifice, you can either know it's never going to slip and deal with some chatter and abusive roughness, or wonder if you're going to out do it and have your TD that doesn't ride like a cadillac engage it's clutch like a cadillac... that is if your cadillac had a clutch! Did you get that?

Basically I don't mind it at all, but some people might. Flat out, it's not easy to drive it, you have to get used to it. It's got a heavier pedal than my brother's 3200 lb ACT PP with a steel 6 puck, the same clutch John Shepherd runs on his 7.9 second talon... but it grabs hard as hell when you snatch the next gear! :thumb:

Aaron Miller


lol... not a panzy. :D

i don't care if it's grabby. i doubt it's more grabby than the spec i had in my fbody. even if it is, i dont care. i just don't want it to slip.

before anyone talks about spec clutches. one of the ones i had was extremely grabby. i let another friend, who had a ceramic clutch in his fbody drive the car. he started to let the clutch out and it grabbed, slung him back in the seat. this brought his foot off the gas, which slung him back forward, which put him on the gas pedal. this happened about 3 or 4 times real quick before he got it under control. it was pretty funny. i also blew apart 3 different spec clutches before spending $1000 on the mcleod street twin.

anywho.... at the moment, this seems like the route im going to go. i can be in a dual diaphragm clutch for ~$240 if i get the disc locally. that's better than the rev-lok.... as long as it holds. :D

BadAssPerformance
12-23-2005, 11:05 PM
That's THE way to launch when you drag the car.. AND he does!!!

Word. 5000 :amen:

I spent the 2nd half of 2004 working through clutch woes.

Wear could be a possibility...
Them puck clutches are ABUSIVE to say the least. I had a 4 puck Clutchnet solid hub in my Z for 6 runs and it slipped on the last 2. After those 6 runs there was wear you could feel with your fingernail in both the flywheel and the plate.

Clutch cable stretched?
Had a ~3000# dual diaphramer in the car and the 4th time I pressed the clutch pedal the cable crushed right by the strut tower. Took the clutch out.

Got a custom clutch in the car now, works great. After the first of the year, I'm gonna see if they'll do a short run for a group buy...

LeGweg
12-24-2005, 12:16 AM
Anyone broke or stretched clutch cables using the FWD dual diagphram PP?

BadAssPerformance
12-24-2005, 12:44 AM
I've heard of the cables stretching with stock clutches... they are almost 20 years old...

8valves
12-24-2005, 03:57 AM
I've heard of the cables stretching with stock clutches... they are almost 20 years old...

very good point!

Aaron Miller

LeGweg
12-24-2005, 10:53 AM
I installed the FWD dual diagphram PP now and it's pretty beefy to drive around every day, but the grip is worth it. I would suggest getting it apart and taking a peak at the disc. If it's fine just buy that PP and throw her back in. I can almost guarentee that you won't have any more engagement issues!

Aaron Miller


There are two dual diaphragm PP models on FWD site. One is 105$ and the other is 165$. Which one are you using?


That PP has about 2200 lbs clamping force...

That would be the 105$ one right?

8valves
12-26-2005, 12:19 PM
There are two dual diaphragm PP models on FWD site. One is 105$ and the other is 165$. Which one are you using?



That would be the 105$ one right?

Sorry, I didn't see this till today. When I bought mine they weren't even on the website! However, mine was $155 or so, so I'm guessing that's the $165 model they have listed now. A 2200 lb pressure plate prbably wouldn't feel this stiff. With my experience with DSM's and the commn ACT 2100's and 2600's... they feel like butter. My brother's 3200 lb PP feels nticeably softer than my pedal as well. Now, DSM's are hydraulic, so that will do away with some of the harshness, so keep that in mind.

Aaron Miller

8valves
12-26-2005, 12:28 PM
Also, when I just read the FWD site, it looks like the $105 option is exactly that, an option. It looks like with any of their clutch kits that you buy you can upgrade the kit for $105 to the DD PP. Whereas buying the DD PP outright is $165, just my thoughts.

Ken, I think the DD PP you're thinking of is the clutchnet one? They are dual TBI PP's that come out to 2200 lb force. The FWD PP's they have made are dual T3 PP diagphram's!

Aaron Miller

GLHSKEN
12-26-2005, 12:50 PM
That is right... clutchnet was 2200lbs. Aaron, the 2600 on our cars is way stiff and will snap even a new clutch pedal... Been there...

Lee'sdaytona
12-26-2005, 03:32 PM
Has anyone replaced a clutch cable just as preventive matinence? My car probably has close to 150,000 miles on it....I'm thinking maybe not a bad idea for this spring. Probably not too expensive or hard to replace----plus that would really suck if my clutch cable snapped somewhere far from home
-Lee

oldgregg
12-26-2005, 04:50 PM
Has anyone replaced a clutch cable just as preventive matinence?I did when I went for a 555 toa 568 & I didn't have to.
Teh cables were tehsame lentgth,i.e., no stretching.

It's a fairly thick cable & to stretch it, well it'd be quite hammered if it stretched & I think you'd need to have stretched it quite a bit, like at least 1/2" or more before you'd feel any issues since these clutches are self adjusting.

And FWIW, I liked my revlock.
A bit grabby, but when your over 300 ft/lbs in a 3000lb+ car, you need it.

LeGweg
12-26-2005, 07:30 PM
Also, when I just read the FWD site, it looks like the $105 option is exactly that, an option. It looks like with any of their clutch kits that you buy you can upgrade the kit for $105 to the DD PP. Whereas buying the DD PP outright is $165, just my thoughts.

Right. I guess I looked too fast and didn't notice it was just an option.

QKsilverF1
01-02-2006, 07:00 PM
And FWIW, I liked my revlock.
A bit grabby, but when your over 300 ft/lbs in a 3000lb+ car, you need it.

I need a clutch, im over 300ft/lbs in my 89 daytona and my Stage II relentless clutch wore out after about 10kmiles what would you guys reccomend

Subliminal
01-03-2006, 10:30 AM
My clutch cable went last week. Replacing it is a pain in the rump. Not like replacing a clutch pain in the rump, but still a pain. Getting that stupid clip on the top of the clutch pedal assembly so the cable doesn't fall off the side...man.

Anyway, mine did the same thing as the OP mentioned. One day it worked fine, two days later, it wouldn't disengage. Turned out somehow almost the whole cable was snapped, and the few strands still holding were stretched out.

green IROC R/T
01-08-2006, 12:51 PM
I just went through about the same thing you are doing right now. I used the four puck from FWD but it slipped because the PP was not strong enough. I just put in the FWD dual diaphram yesterday and reused the four puck disc. You could definetly tell it slipped when I got it apart but I scuffed up the disc and flywheel with 80 grit and it cleaned up just fine. The ceramic clutch left kind of a black goo on the flywheel but it sanded right off. The pedal affort for sure is hard and will take some getting used to- I am 6'1" and 235 pounds so if it's tough for me I could see a little guy having some problems. A couple of tricks that I found out from wallace it to use two springs on the self adjuster and to replace the rubber grommet that goes on the clutch fork with one made of a harder material. Wallace used a cutting board to make one out of and I made one out of a handle of a wire brush- might take an hour or two to fabricate one though. Doing these two things will make the clutch more responsive and you won't have to push it as far. Mike

powermaxx
04-18-2006, 07:40 PM
I should of checked back in! Didn't know there was any response to this thread.

Turned out to be the clutch. It was worn and has eaten into the PP and flywheel a little.

I decided to go with TU's 4 puck ceramic Race setup. Seems good, light pedal feel. We'll see how it takes it's first 5k launching :evil: ! Only have 15 miles on the freshened engine. (I did leave two nice black strips checking out the OBX LSD at part throttle and only at the 15psi setting :D . Seems to work nicely!)

Pat
04-19-2006, 05:35 AM
Anyone broke or stretched clutch cables using the FWD dual diagphram PP?


I have broken three cables with the dual diaphram 2200 lb plate and it was a bear to drive around town. Until I made this....:thumb:

Reduced pedal pressure by close to 20%, which means pedeal feel is only slightly heavier than stock, much easier to drive as you have more engagement control with the longer lever and no more massive stress on cables. Much easier, cheaper and effective than replacing the pressure plate.

GLHSKEN
04-19-2006, 06:12 AM
I feel like this is one of those

GIUNESS ads.

BRILLIANT!!!

BadAssPerformance
04-19-2006, 06:36 AM
*clinks beer glass with Ken*

Yeah, brilliant Pat.

Got any pics installed? Clearances?

Pat
04-19-2006, 06:51 AM
*clinks beer glass with Ken*

Yeah, brilliant Pat.

Got any pics installed? Clearances?

Thanks. I can snap a few for you if you'd like. What I did was swap the cable to the outside hole on the tab on the trans, pull the cable down to see how far out I could go and just tried it. I ended up adding about 1 1/8" from the fulcrum to where the cable grabs the clutch arm. The cable doesn't rub anything, clears everything it needs to and even with the added length to the arm, there is still plenty of swing motion to engage/disengage the clutch.

BadAssPerformance
04-19-2006, 07:13 AM
You answered my next question of 'did you need a longer cable?'

Sounds cool, installed pics would be great if you can.

green IROC R/T
04-19-2006, 07:17 AM
I installed the 4-puck last year with the single diaphram and it slipped so over the winter I put in the dual diaphram unit and no slippage what so ever. At first the pedal seemed very stiff but as I got used to it and it wore in some I really don't even notice it anymore. I had several cars from the 60's and 70's that were much stiffer with the stock components.

GLHSKEN
04-19-2006, 07:38 AM
The problem is more with the cable snapping than the effort. Pat's Mod fixes that!!!

*clinks pint glass with JT*

powermaxx
04-19-2006, 07:43 AM
I installed the 4-puck last year with the single diaphram and it slipped so over the winter I put in the dual diaphram unit and no slippage what so ever.

Was that the TU Race 4 puck? Or the RP version?

GLHSKEN
04-19-2006, 07:47 AM
FWIW, Reeves is using the old relentless 4 puck (copper ceramic) with the ORIGINAL 2200lb pressure plate thought up by no one less than the man him self. Gary D. Been using it for several seasons now. 467 ft lbs and "still going". We went through a couple clutch cables before it settled down.

GLHSKEN
04-19-2006, 07:55 AM
Hey Pat,

Feel like fabbing another one and selling it to me, maybe 2??

8valves
04-19-2006, 09:44 AM
FWIW, Reeves is using the old relentless 4 puck (copper ceramic) with the ORIGINAL 2200lb pressure plate thought up by no one less than the man him self. Gary D. Been using it for several seasons now. 467 ft lbs and "still going". We went through a couple clutch cables before it settled down.

I still can't figure how he's had no issues, yet w/ the same PP mine slipped 3 times on 3-4 shifts at much less torque, guestimate in the 320 ft/lb range at that time. :confused:

LIGHT BULB: I just realized that I forgot the PP was torn to hell from doing 2nd gear launches on my old busted 555. I didn't have the full PP force more than likely.

On the plus side I've still had no cable issues w/ the dual diaghprham setup on my daily driven car for over 4K miles now.

Aaron Miller

Pat
04-19-2006, 10:58 AM
Hey Pat,

Feel like fabbing another one and selling it to me, maybe 2??

Sure, as long as you're not in a huge rush. We've got a string of family events going on over the next month or so.

GLHSKEN
04-19-2006, 12:48 PM
No rush at all. Car won't even be together until next spring at best. It's for the beast

Pat
04-19-2006, 06:17 PM
You answered my next question of 'did you need a longer cable?'

Sounds cool, installed pics would be great if you can.


The wife is out of town this week and I just realized she took the digital camera. Shoot me a PM this weekend to remind me to snap a few pictures for you when she gets back.

BadAssPerformance
04-19-2006, 07:01 PM
The wife is out of town this week and I just realized she took the digital camera. Shoot me a PM this weekend to remind me to snap a few pictures for you when she gets back.

will do, thanks

LeGweg
04-19-2006, 09:41 PM
I have broken three cables with the dual diaphram 2200 lb plate and it was a bear to drive around town. Until I made this....:thumb:

Reduced pedal pressure by close to 20%, which means pedeal feel is only slightly heavier than stock, much easier to drive as you have more engagement control with the longer lever and no more massive stress on cables. Much easier, cheaper and effective than replacing the pressure plate.

Sweet! :thumb:

And easy to do too :nod:

So I'll have to order a dual diaphragm PP now :D

ShadowBrad
04-21-2006, 02:22 AM
I was thinking about a longer cluth arm on the tranny. I guess I don't have to invent one now since its already been proven to work. :thumb: *clinks mug*

I ordered a 6-puck, solid hub clutch from clutch-net and a DDPP from FWDP.
I'm thinking that should hold the power from my hybrid. Hopefully the A523 will hold as well. lol