Should I run a TIII SBEC, stay stock or upgrade to a 90 van SBEC.

[turbovanman²]

I know how superior the TIII brain is, so would it be worthwhile upgrading the van to a TIII brain and wiring harness, staying stock or will the TIII brain run on a 90 van SBEC harness with some tweaks?

[iTurbo]

I plan to do that with my Shelby Lancer. I put in a '91 GTC (SBEC) harness in preparation for the TIII I'm putting in soon. Some connectors will have to be relocated to reach their respective positions on the TIII motor such as the TPS, AIS, and fuel rail connector. The plugs going to your current distributor would have to be relocated to reach the TIII cam/crank sensors which actually use the same plugs. I believe Jackson has actually done this before..

[turbovanman²]

Yeah, I was told the HEP connectors plug into the cam and crank sensors with no issues.

I wasn't sure if the 90 SBEC harness will work with a TIII computer, and I know I'll have to run a wire for the coil pack.

I just really like the TIII computer, it seems far superior to the 8v counterparts.

[iTurbo]

It can be done, but what are you going to do about the crank sensor? Aren't you running an auto?

[turbovanman²]

It can be done, but what are you going to do about the crank sensor? Aren't you running an auto?

I could make a crank trigger setup so thats not really a problem.

My main issue is the TIII computer, it just seems miles ahead. The run better, drive better, get better MPG, the list goes on.

I will try my TIII SMEC cal and then go from there. Just trying to get some feedback on this so I can search for a 90 van harness. This could be my my winter project or just say f*ck it and go standalone, lol!

[Austrian Dodge]

didn't you say you're going with a microtech?

[iTurbo]

I recently bought a crank trigger setup for TIII. If you like I can post some pics of it. BTW, I also have a '90 turbo Caravan harness I could sell you.

[turbovanman²]

didn't you say you're going with a microtech?

I am flip flopping due to the mess of wiring to piggy back and run the stock computer. I feel the TIII computer is what I need for my combo, or a good real TIII cal, that Shelgame is working on for me, :clap:


I recently bought a crank trigger setup for TIII. If you like I can post some pics of it. BTW, I also have a '90 turbo Caravan harness I could sell you.


Ok, we'll talk soon, :nod:

[iTurbo]

Yeah, you and I are kinda in the same boat. I also plan to run a 2.5L TIII on a stock TIII SBEC. I wonder how well it will work?? I think Cliff Ramsdell was using a Trimcal from FWDP on his. I don't expect I'll run my SL anywhere near as hard as he did though.

I'm pretty sure that '90 van harness I have is from an A568 van, but that shouldn't really be a problem for you. Even better if you decide to put an R/T trans in.

[turbovanman²]

Cliff layed down some serious power using a TIII computer with a trim cal from Cindy.

Yeah, 90 5 speed van, no biggie, just modify the starter circuit.

[Lotashelbys]

Simon
Just get a 90 TI harness for your van. Its too easy to turn it right into a TIII harness from there. You only need to add two wires at the 60 way( charge-temp feed and ignition control#2) Even you can figure this one out:D

[turbovanman²]

Am I right in believing the TIII computer is superior?

[Austrian Dodge]

I am flip flopping due to the mess of wiring to piggy back and run the stock computer. I feel the TIII computer is what I need for my combo, or a good real TIII cal, that Shelgame is working on for me, :clap:


the wiring is not that bad at all. only things to think about before going crazy is the trigger and ignition setup. the rest is just soldering and routing the harness wisely ;)
i'll post pictures when my engine bay isn't a mess anymore :)

why would you want to use your stock computer when you have a standalone doing all of it?

[turbovanman²]

the wiring is not that bad at all. only things to think about before going crazy is the trigger and ignition setup. the rest is just soldering and routing the harness wisely ;)
i'll post pictures when my engine bay isn't a mess anymore :)

why would you want to use your stock computer when you have a standalone doing all of it?


Because I need the stock computer to run the a/c, cruise, tach and a few other things so running a TIII computer would be easier.

[Speedeuphoria]

Because I need the stock computer to run the a/c, cruise, tach and a few other things so running a TIII computer would be easier.

I can see that a stockish ecu would be better for using the a/c and cruise. You shouldn't need the stock ecu to run the tach though, mine works good w/o

[turbovanman²]

I can see that a stockish ecu would be better for using the a/c and cruise. You shouldn't need the stock ecu to run the tach though, mine works good w/o


I haven't seen it work on a TD yet but a Neon conversion with the Microtech, the stock tach doesn't work.

[Austrian Dodge]

gotcha on the cruise, but my haltech can run an A/C :)

as for the tach, i haven't hooked it up yet, but there shouldn't be problem.

[ShelGame]

Am I right in believing the TIII computer is superior?

In many ways, I think so.

There's 2 parts to it - the code (which could be copied over to the T1 computer) and the DIS (which can't be run on the T1 computer). The real advantage to the code is the 3D tables - much greater flexibility in tuning than is possible with the 2D maps. The DIS advantages? Well, really just not having the mechanical device and the limitations on timing that go with it. I think a T1 computer, running the 3D code would work great...

[turbovanman²]

In many ways, I think so.

There's 2 parts to it - the code (which could be copied over to the T1 computer) and the DIS (which can't be run on the T1 computer). The real advantage to the code is the 3D tables - much greater flexibility in tuning than is possible with the 2D maps. The DIS advantages? Well, really just not having the mechanical device and the limitations on timing that go with it. I think a T1 computer, running the 3D code would work great...

Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

And get cracking, mush, mush, :eyebrows: :partywoot: :thumb:

[ShelGame]

Ha! I wish it was so easy. I'll do it eventually, though. You still want to try a 2D T3 approximation for your SMEC?

[turbovanman²]

Ha! I wish it was so easy. I'll do it eventually, though. You still want to try a 2D T3 approximation for your SMEC?

Yep, still waiting, :eyebrows: Van comes out in May so git R done :partywoot::bounce2:

[ShelGame]

Yep, still waiting, :eyebrows: Van comes out in May so git R done :partywoot::bounce2:

May?! No problem. I made a spreadsheet to help me translate between the 2D and 3D tables. I did the WOT tables already, just need to do the P/T and idle tables.

Fuel is different. The stock T3 cal runs pretty lean, actually - ~13:1 A/F. So, you'll have to let me know if you want to run that lean to start with, or if you want to go a little safer...

[risen]

May?! No problem. I made a spreadsheet to help me translate between the 2D and 3D tables. I did the WOT tables already, just need to do the P/T and idle tables.

Fuel is different. The stock T3 cal runs pretty lean, actually - ~13:1 A/F. So, you'll have to let me know if you want to run that lean to start with, or if you want to go a little safer...

Rob, is there an easy way to make a 3d map of the total advance for boost vs rpm from the t3 cal (something like the .pdf files on the dcal group)? I looked at it a little bit, but I couldn't figure out how the 2d and 3d tables were used together as ASM gives me a headache in about 5 mins.

[ShelGame]

Yes and no. I put them into excel and plotted them on a surface plot, but excel doesn't do true 3D scatter charts. The 3D tables use a transfer function for MAP as the Y input to the 3D tables, and it's non-linear. So, the 3D suface is not visually correct (becuase it's plotted by 'category' instead of X and Y value).

Chrysler did the non-linear x-fer function, I think, to get better resolution in the tables where emissions were important. The resolution is lower in boost, and higher in vac.

[risen]

Yes and no. I put them into excel and plotted them on a surface plot, but excel doesn't do true 3D scatter charts. The 3D tables use a transfer function for MAP as the Y input to the 3D tables, and it's non-linear. So, the 3D suface is not visually correct (becuase it's plotted by 'category' instead of X and Y value).

Chrysler did the non-linear x-fer function, I think, to get better resolution in the tables where emissions were important. The resolution is lower in boost, and higher in vac.

Ok thanks, I'll stop hijacking this thread here.

[Aries_Turbo]

May?! No problem. I made a spreadsheet to help me translate between the 2D and 3D tables. I did the WOT tables already, just need to do the P/T and idle tables.

Fuel is different. The stock T3 cal runs pretty lean, actually - ~13:1 A/F. So, you'll have to let me know if you want to run that lean to start with, or if you want to go a little safer...

remember, this is simon, the king of 30psi! :)

plus its a 2.5L TIII as well.

Brian

[turbovanman²]

remember, this is simon, the king of 30psi! :)

plus its a 2.5L TIII as well.

Brian

Hahhhaa, we covered that already, :thumb:

Scottmon said his stock TIII cal worked awesome on his 2.5L TIII, :clap:

[Speedeuphoria]

Larry J said his stock TIII cal bent rods because of too much timing at high boost, just for thought. That was with lots of meth slowing down the burn.

[turbovanman²]

Larry J said his stock TIII cal bent rods because of too much timing at high boost, just for thought. That was with lots of meth slowing down the burn.

Is that 4sfed4? if so, I thought I when a stock cal when doing his 500whp run AND his engine had never been apart?

[Speedeuphoria]

Is that 4sfed4? if so, I thought I when a stock cal when doing his 500whp run AND his engine had never been apart?
hes back on TD.com and being a postwhore today and yesterday, OK well he made 2 posts that contridict each other, so take them as you will:banghead:


The only breakage I had was around 350-360 whp and that was a blown headgasket (stock gasket BTW) which came along with a few bent rods as a result. This happened when I was running a very high timing chip (higher than stock timing), maybe 24-25 psi boost, along with a MAP diode to fool the computer.


The stock cal would be way too aggresive for lots of boost witha larger turbo. If memory serves, the stock cal was somewhere around 23 degrees advance at 2 bar? I bent rods and a blew headgasket with the stock cal and T3/T4 turbo at 350-360ish whp if memory serves.

The aftermarket cal I used (FWD 3 bar/+40's) for the higher hp setup was around 12 degrees advance and this was tame enough to work great even on 93 octane with supplemental alky injection.

Also, keep in mind that I dynoed at 30-31 psi boost, but ran as much as 35 psi boost afterwards (but did not redyno). The car ran flawlessly at 35 psi boost. I could hardly believe it.

[turbovanman²]

DOH!, :confused:

[Aries_Turbo]

the aggressive one was a gary donovan cal and that was the one the broke the rods and HG. the stock one still had too much timing as well.

Frank and I have HUNDREDS of emails chatting with Larry on his quest to 500whp though i lost all mine when i redid my pc. oh well. I have a good memory. :)

his engine that made 500whp had ARP rod bolts and a quick valvejob and thats it. it wasnt the untouched stock one that came with the car. i think it was the block and the crank and stock pistons but the rods were replaced after the bending incident. :)

Brian

[turbovanman²]

the aggressive one was a gary donovan cal and that was the one the broke the rods and HG. the stock one still had too much timing as well.

Frank and I have HUNDREDS of emails chatting with Larry on his quest to 500whp though i lost all mine when i redid my pc. oh well. I have a good memory. :)

his engine that made 500whp had ARP rod bolts and a quick valvejob and thats it. it wasnt the untouched stock one that came with the car. i think it was the block and the crank and stock pistons but the rods were replaced after the bending incident. :)

Brian


Ok, thanks, I knew I had read he did it all on a stock engine. What cal did he use for the 500 whp?

[Speedeuphoria]

basically after the issues he went to STG 3 FWD performance, from what he says, said 12 deg total timing, and ran that since

[Aries_Turbo]

yup, cindys.

brian

[bansheenut420]

hes back on TD.com and being a postwhore today and yesterday, OK well he made 2 posts that contridict each other, so take them as you will:banghead:

I will make sure to have him keep it to PMs if he is postwhoring too much. I am loving the info. He sent me a TON of emails with all kinds of info. Very helpful guy. Would have never looked at it as postwhoring. :thumb:

[Speedeuphoria]

I will make sure to have him keep it to PMs if he is postwhoring too much. I am loving the info. He sent me a TON of emails with all kinds of info. Very helpful guy. Would have never looked at it as postwhoring. :thumb:


I was just being silly, hes just posting a lot for not being around very much

[Aries_Turbo]

he had a daughter a few years back so that takes up a big chunk of time...

Brian