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dds78910
03-20-2008, 10:09 AM
I'm in the market for a wideband O2, just wondering what people have and what they have to say about them?

overlordsshadow
03-20-2008, 10:19 AM
I've got the Innovate lm1 and that is what a lot of other board members recommended. It is not cheap but I don't think many of them are. It is fully modual and laptop tunable with minor addons. I like mine, especially the digi gauge.

CSXT802
03-20-2008, 10:24 AM
http://www.boostcontroller.com/index.php?category=150
http://www.boostcontroller.com/index.php?maincat=123

RJ138
03-20-2008, 10:30 AM
I have a Dynojet wideband commander and an Innovate LM1.

I would go with the LM1 unless you want to activate and deactivate something based on AFRs (i.e. nitrous).

Clay
03-20-2008, 10:33 AM
Ive got the Innovate LC1 w/ XD16 gauge. I like it and haven't had any problems with it.

If you want quick and dirty, I would get an LC1 w/ an aftermarket gauge. That XD16 gauge is expensive. Friend of mine bought an LC1 w/ VEI gauge on a group buy at SRT forums for around $230.

The other one I would consider is the Zeitronics. I like the fact you can datalog with it out of the box.

mock_glh
03-20-2008, 10:50 AM
I use the Zeitronix unit with a laptop. Satisfactory results so far.

nBALLS
03-20-2008, 10:52 AM
LC-1 on my Mirage. I love it.

mcsvt
03-20-2008, 10:53 AM
I have the tech edge 2j1 from here www.wb02.com

Yet to install it though...

MiniMopar
03-20-2008, 11:37 AM
I have a TechEdge 2A0 DIY kit with the LD02 display. Works great.

tryingbe
03-20-2008, 12:01 PM
AEM

http://www.thelostartof.net/tryingbe/dodge/Daytonaproject/finalgauges.jpg

cordes
03-20-2008, 12:11 PM
I have the PLX M-300 in my omni. I have been using it to simulate the stock O2 sensor for about 7-8 months now, and it works really well.

risen
03-20-2008, 12:42 PM
My bro and I have an LC-1 w/XD-16 in our GLH-T. I have a LC-1 w/moates Ometer in my CSX. Both have been great.

t3rse
03-20-2008, 02:22 PM
I have an m-300, and my biggest complaint is that the display takes a dump when it gets too hot sitting in the sun.

I had zero WB feedback at SDAC last year b/c I couldn't get the LCD display to work.

Speedeuphoria
03-20-2008, 02:46 PM
LC-1 + VEI A/F gauge, and a LMA-3

I bought the LMA-3 used off ebay and the 4th channel doesnt work, so I need to send it back. Other than that no complaints at all. It logs using my laptop and I can label a unique 0-5V sensor with many built in gauges(for lack of a better word), so it doesn't just log the voltage. Also it can graph like no other and make tables with correction factors so you want 11.5 A/F durring boost, it will tell you how far your off(gives multiplier) so you just take your given fuel number and multiply it to get the new value to use instead. Has many calculations you can do, like WHP, using the accelerometer built in, ect..

cordes
03-20-2008, 02:58 PM
I have an m-300, and my biggest complaint is that the display takes a dump when it gets too hot sitting in the sun.

I had zero WB feedback at SDAC last year b/c I couldn't get the LCD display to work.

Wow, that's pretty crazy. I haven't had that problem with mine, and I know that we have ours mounted in the same spot. Perhaps I just haven't had my car out in the sun enough on really hot days yet.

Aries_Turbo
03-20-2008, 05:01 PM
I have a TechEdge 2A0 DIY kit using a palm OS pda as the display. Works great.

Brian

contraption22
03-20-2008, 05:50 PM
I have the powerdex NGK unit. Seems to work well.

GLHS592
03-20-2008, 06:22 PM
I also have a Zeitronix. It's the best bang for the buck on the market. It's very easy to use too.

GLHNSLHT2
03-20-2008, 11:39 PM
I have the XD-16/LC-1 setup in my tona. Love it. I just got a G3/LC-1 setup today for my new yorker. cool looking guage $265 off ebay for the kit. I've got another LC-1 on the way to run my g/f's 04 Jeep Libby.

CSXT802
03-21-2008, 12:47 AM
I have the powerdex NGK unit. Seems to work well.
+1^:nod:

dds78910
03-21-2008, 09:40 AM
I did buy the LC-1 from Summit, then took it back cause I wanted to to get the Zeitronix, but then I got cheap and decided not to get it. So last night I bought the Auto meter 5778 Phantom gauge setup off ebay for a good price, plus it will match my other gauges.

It sounds like they are all good setups and seem to use the same o2 sensor so I dont think I could go wrong with any of the choices. I did want to datalog originally, but oh well. Thanks for the info! :nod:

Speedeuphoria
03-21-2008, 10:40 AM
If your making your own cals or have a standalone then datalogging is the ONLY way to go!

mpboost
03-24-2008, 04:11 PM
I have the PLX SM-AFR wideband, along with their DM-5 gauge in my SRT-4, and another one sitting in the garage that is going into my K-car.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/2193000-2193999/2193215_33_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/2193000-2193999/2193215_35_full.jpg

Austrian Dodge
03-24-2008, 07:38 PM
Innovate LC-1 w/XD-16 in my Daytona.

BF/STOCKER SPIRIT
03-25-2008, 04:40 PM
GREAT POST! GUYS, BRAD KELLY at Innovation, has great stuff. TECH EDGE looks very interesting,The ,ZIETTRONIX looks very interesting,at $140, for a simple w/b.
Or I'll just keep my old Dewews Divise,and wait till I see Red, OK! not a good thing

bfarroo
04-01-2008, 09:18 PM
I also have a Zeitronix. It's the best bang for the buck on the market. It's very easy to use too.

I'm looking at the Zeitronix unit and was wondering it you can use the dataloging with a 3 bar map instead of the 3.5 they list on the site. I would think it would just be a setting in the software but I could be wrong.

Speedeuphoria
04-01-2008, 10:00 PM
I'm looking at the Zeitronix unit and was wondering it you can use the dataloging with a 3 bar map instead of the 3.5 they list on the site. I would think it would just be a setting in the software but I could be wrong.

yes it has a user input where you can log any 0-5V sensor, so you can use the map. That is what I would do instead of paying money for the other sensor. But I've never used the software so I dont know if you can label it correctly and input a custom lookup table like you can with innovate stuff, like it may just log the voltage and not psi units, which would be a PITA to convert all the time.

OK I just try'd the Zeitronix software, its very simple, but like I said the User input just displays voltage you cant change the units of measure, I dont have a ZT-2 so I cant try the only option which is calibrate to set the plot range, which to me means just changing the high and low limits. So unless you want a PITA converting map voltage to boost all the time guess you have to pony up and get the $110 boost sensor(which last I knew can be found on ebay much cheaper).

I am curious to see if the techedge wideband is the same way where you cant change/convert the 0-5V inputs to usable units of measure

Thats why I like my Innovate setup because you can hook pretty much any 0-5V sensor up and change the units of measure that will be displayed(theres exactly 50 units to choose from, and can input a custom look up table also)

GLHS592
04-02-2008, 09:58 AM
I'm not good with electronics, so I bought the boost sensor.

risen
04-02-2008, 06:06 PM
yes it has a user input where you can log any 0-5V sensor, so you can use the map. That is what I would do instead of paying money for the other sensor. But I've never used the software so I dont know if you can label it correctly and input a custom lookup table like you can with innovate stuff, like it may just log the voltage and not psi units, which would be a PITA to convert all the time.

OK I just try'd the Zeitronix software, its very simple, but like I said the User input just displays voltage you cant change the units of measure, I dont have a ZT-2 so I cant try the only option which is calibrate to set the plot range, which to me means just changing the high and low limits. So unless you want a PITA converting map voltage to boost all the time guess you have to pony up and get the $110 boost sensor(which last I knew can be found on ebay much cheaper).

I am curious to see if the techedge wideband is the same way where you cant change/convert the 0-5V inputs to usable units of measure

Thats why I like my Innovate setup because you can hook pretty much any 0-5V sensor up and change the units of measure that will be displayed(theres exactly 50 units to choose from, and can input a custom look up table also)

The other plus with the innovate software is that you can write your own software and pull data from the ecu yourself. I've already got a program for logic modules that I posted over on moparchem. This means that you can log any value that the ecu has/uses. Only problem is that you need a datalog interface for the LM, which has already been solved (both USB and serial).

Is anyone here (who doesn't already know about this stuff) interested in it?

Speedeuphoria
04-02-2008, 09:41 PM
The other plus with the innovate software is that you can write your own software and pull data from the ecu yourself. I've already got a program for logic modules that I posted over on moparchem. This means that you can log any value that the ecu has/uses. Only problem is that you need a datalog interface for the LM, which has already been solved (both USB and serial).

Is anyone here (who doesn't already know about this stuff) interested in it?

I just read your posts on TD.com and was going to link the info here, because I was unaware of it. Glad you posted!!:thumb:

Yes we are interested!, Please do post the info possibly in another thread!!, Even though I dont use stock electronics it is very good info that I would like to know more about as well as others I'm sure. This is similar to what Logworks can do with MegaSquirt where all of the ecu info can be logged in the same graph as the other Innovate products you have hooked up. In LW2 the limit is 32 items being loged total, In LW3 64 items can be logged simultaneously.

Basically it could very well take place of a scanner(if the software gets built up to that point including knock info, ect...), talk about bang for your buck! All you would need is an LC-1 and what ever interface risen is using to get it going.EDIT: actually after doing a little reading looks like you dont need a wideband to log using logworks
I forgot to mention that it can be used without needing a Innovative w/b too. You can use the mtsstim DLL and just ignore the a/f data it adds. You can just set the gauges to the channels you're taking from the LM and have a cool set of gauges and use their graphing/logging facilities.

So to me if the above is the case(I wasn't aware of it, and dont use stock electronics now), then Getting the Summit/Innovate kit(or just LC-1) would be the only way to go, If would be cheaper then Zeitronix and have more features(except for the EGT, but can be added on at any time which would give you 4 egt probe hookups and priced like the Zeitronix with boost sensor you need).

I have Innovate stuff and Logworks is top notch software. Zeitronix is good bang for the buck, but you need to buy the expensive boost sensor to read boost since the user input only logs voltage from what I see(no conversions built in to change into meaning full units of measure to watch/log)

TurboJerry
04-02-2008, 11:51 PM
I use the LM1 because I use it in many different cars. No need to install one just to get a quick look see..... The Autometer one is really good if you want to semi-permanently install one....

risen
04-02-2008, 11:52 PM
Yes we are interested!, Please do post the info possibly in another thread!!, Even though I dont use stock electronics it is very good info that I would like to know more about as well as others I'm sure. This is similar to what Logworks can do with MegaSquirt where all of the ecu info can be logged in the same graph as the other Innovate products you have hooked up. In LW2 the limit is 32 items being loged total, In LW3 64 items can be logged simultaneously.


I don't think the 32 item limit is really an issue with the logic modules since the comms are rather slow. If the software gets extended to do smec/sbec and it can use the 62500 rate, then you may have enough comms capacity to do more than 32 items.

I have a MS in a glht and, to be honest, I prefer the logworks software to the megasquirt software. Not that megatune or megalogviewer is necessarily bad, but I really like innovate's software. It's very powerful and more easily extended in all sorts of ways. Logworks3 looks to be more of the same.




Basically it could very well take place of a scanner(if the software gets built up to that point including knock info, ect...), talk about bang for your buck! All you would need is an LC-1 and what ever interface risen is using to get it going.EDIT: actually after doing a little reading looks like you dont need a wideband to log using logworks

So to me if the above is the case(I wasn't aware of it, and dont use stock electronics now), then Getting the Summit/Innovate kit(or just LC-1) would be the only way to go, If would be cheaper then Zeitronix and have more features(except for the EGT, but can be added on at any time which would give you 4 egt probe hookups and priced like the Zeitronix with boost sensor you need).

I have Innovate stuff and Logworks is top notch software. Zeitronix is good bang for the buck, but you need to buy the expensive boost sensor to read boost since the user input only logs voltage from what I see(no conversions built in to change into meaning full units of measure to watch/log)

There is a piece of software that was written a while ago called lmlog that can pull codes out of the ecu already and does datalogging too. It pretty much does take the place of a scanner, only thing that is missing is the self tests, which I'm sure could be setup in short order if anyone really wanted it. Whatever can be done with a scanner we can do with software just as easily, it's just a matter of taking the time to code it up (as you pointed out).

I've just recently, as in last week, added the addresses to do the logging of retard per cylinder/overall retard and knock voltage, but they still need some tweaking to display properly in logworks. ECT was easy, has been in for months now. I'm going to eventually post the source, but I'd like to clean some things up and straighten some things out like the CTS( or IAT if you'd prefer that name) or Voltage values that aren't currently scaled correctly.

What I'll do is I'll post 2 threads. One will have the info for wiring up a usb or serial datalog interface on a logic module (based upon Geoff's info). The other will have the logworks plugin for logic modules and some instructions for using it both with and without a innovate wideband (or other hardware).

It may take me a while to get all the info compiled so I don't have to edit the thread 20x over, but I should have it done by the end of the week.

Speedeuphoria
04-03-2008, 12:04 AM
What I'll do is I'll post 2 threads. One will have the info for wiring up a usb or serial datalog interface on a logic module (based upon Geoff's info). The other will have the logworks plugin for logic modules and some instructions for using it both with and without a innovate wideband (or other hardware).

It may take me a while to get all the info compiled so I don't have to edit the thread 20x over, but I should have it done by the end of the week.

Thanks for all the info.

What you could do is make KC(knowledge Center) articles, unless your wanting feedback/input from others, or I dont think anyone would mind putting it in both places(copy and paste), that way its archived in the KC and also you can have discussion in the thread(s)

risen
04-03-2008, 12:10 AM
Thanks for all the info.

What you could do is make KC(knowledge Center) articles, unless your wanting feedback/input from others, or I dont think anyone would mind putting it in both places(copy and paste), that way its archived in the KC and also you can have discussion in the thread(s)

Works for me. I'm actually going to update the documentation that I included with the software and then just post it up here. I figure the more places it is the less likely it is to disappear.

bfarroo
04-08-2008, 08:07 PM
I emailed Zeitronix and asked about the sensor and their response was as follows.

"We tested a large number of MAP sensors including GM 3 BAR and due to accuracy and consistency decided on super 3.5 BAR MAP. It's a stainless steel temperature compensated, vibration resistant, super accurate pressure transducer used in nuclear power plants and medical filed. The sensor is made in USA by a German company and it's superior in every way. Those sensors do not come in 3 BAR range." Now that's all fine and dandy but this is a data logger and I could really care less if the GM sensor is off by a 1/4 of a pound. The main reason for buying the wideband is to monitor A/F and if that is accurate and within the correct range is knowing down to the tenth or hundredth of a pound of boost really matter. I like everything else about the unit but it just seems dumb to only make it work with those two sensors when it would probably take 5 min to add a 3bar to the selections so someone like me can use the parts they already have.

Speedeuphoria
04-08-2008, 08:36 PM
all they would have to do is build in some conversions into the software for the "user input" channel, but since they only have 1 user input it prob wont happen, well and they get to make money selling that specific boost sensor.

Since the Innovate stuff has many 0-5V user inputs thats why they need it, but makes it great IMO. Like I can log my CAT or IAT one day and another sensor the next and not have to look up the info for temps by voltage(because I already have a table that I input with the values so it displays correctly)

MiniMopar
04-08-2008, 10:49 PM
TechEdge makes several models with varying degrees of logging capability. The 2A0 that I have has an RPM input (either logic level or coil power level), three 0-5V analog inputs, and three more internally-compensated K-type thermocouple inputs (which can be reconfigured for 0-5V use as well). It doesn't have a whole lot of memory, but the 2A1 has more than enough.

What I like most about TE stuff, besides the DIY kits which I enjoy, is the fact that the design and protocols are completely open and documented. They don't divulge the inner workings of the microcontroller, but the schematic and all the documentation you need to interface to it is right there and explained well. As an electronics hobbyist, I find this very appealing.

Speedeuphoria
04-08-2008, 11:20 PM
TechEdge makes several models with varying degrees of logging capability. The 2A0 that I have has an RPM input (either logic level or coil power level), three 0-5V analog inputs, and three more internally-compensated K-type thermocouple inputs (which can be reconfigured for 0-5V use as well).

But what I want to know is can you log actual units of measure for whatever sensor your logging? Meaning does it just log voltage or does it have conversions or tables you can set up. So you not going, uhhh wait 1.35v is that good or bad?

MiniMopar
04-08-2008, 11:26 PM
It's just voltage. You need to do the conversion yourself via whatever analysis software you use. You don't need, or want for that matter, to have the unit doing any scaling of the data for you so that you keep as much resolution in the data as possible. The software has some capabilities, but you can customize it however you need.

SebringLX
04-09-2008, 10:28 AM
I now have a WEGO III wideband from Daytona Sensors. Relatively unknown company... supposedly pretty well known among hard core drag racers. A friend of mine who is friends with someone in that company, suggested I try one. It is very nice, I like it a lot so far. Reason he wanted me to try one, is 'cause he's trying to get me to sell them, lol.

Some info on it here: http://www.daytona-sensors.com/WEGO3.html

SebringLX
04-09-2008, 02:54 PM
Ok I got a pic of my WEGO III wideband, the picture did not turn out well and does not do it justice. The LCD is a very clear blue, very easy to see and read in all lighting. For some reason the camera didn't pick it up.

https://www.aerospheric.com/images/wego.jpg

You can plug any gauge into it. I have it plugged into the Greddy Profec-E01 on my car so I can use it's LCD screen to display both a boost gauge and AFR gauge at the same time. I pulled the WEGO III out and set it where it's at just for the picture, obviously I don't drive around like that.

Here's a screen shot of the log screen:
https://www.aerospheric.com/images/wegolog.jpg

The WEGO III logs for over 2 hours! When you want to view a log, you just plug the USB cable on it into a computer, and it downloads the log. You use the software to clear the log or change how it logs too. When you view the log, you can select how much time you want to view at once, from 15 seconds all the way to 15 minutes at a time. I had 1 minute selected on the screen shot.

I only have the RPM signal hooked up to it right now, I could also hook up TPS, MAP, or any other 0-5v sensor and have it included in the logs as well.

I'm very happy with the WEGO III. It's very small, very well built... feels like you could run over it and not break it (I wouldn't recommend doing that, lol). It's water proof and vibration proof. You can even set this thing to correctly show your AFR if you are running methanol instead of gasoline.

risen
04-11-2008, 01:38 AM
Thanks for all the info.

What you could do is make KC(knowledge Center) articles, unless your wanting feedback/input from others, or I dont think anyone would mind putting it in both places(copy and paste), that way its archived in the KC and also you can have discussion in the thread(s)

I'm still working on the documentation for the logging interfaces and logworks plugin. I want to get some better pictures of the solder points as the ones I have are kind of crappy.

risen
04-23-2008, 01:03 PM
I'm still working on the documentation for the logging interfaces and logworks plugin. I want to get some better pictures of the solder points as the ones I have are kind of crappy.

Ok, I've posted the article for the USB datalog interface for LM's in the Knowledge Center. Anyone who's interested please go check it out and LMK what you think. I'm still working on the KC article for the Logworks2 plugin.

BadAssPerformance
06-29-2008, 09:20 AM
Bumping an old thread... So what's your favorite WB setup? Which ones easily log A/F vs. RPM and MAP?

GLHS592
06-29-2008, 09:28 AM
Bumping an old thread... So what's your favorite WB setup? Which ones easily log A/F vs. RPM and MAP?

Like I said before, I really like my Zeitronix. If I can use it, anybody can. I installed it myself and it worked first try out of the box.

EDIT: The only thing I do not like about it is you can't datalog unless it is hooked up to the laptop. The Innovate has it beat there.

crazy1eye
06-29-2008, 10:02 AM
I was thinking about buying the Innovate LM-1 for it's data logging capabilities(no laptop needed).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Innovate-LM-1-Basic-WIDEBAND-A-F-Ratio-Gauge-Kit-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em14Q2el1318Q QhashZitem110264986224QQitemZ110264986224

slasky
06-29-2008, 10:42 AM
Ok, I've posted the article for the USB datalog interface for LM's in the Knowledge Center. Anyone who's interested please go check it out and LMK what you think. I'm still working on the KC article for the Logworks2 plugin.

Awesome article on adding the usb. How is the plugin for logworks2 coming?

risen
06-30-2008, 12:08 AM
Awesome article on adding the usb. How is the plugin for logworks2 coming?

Thanks. I've got a functional copy if you want to play with the logworks plugin for logic modules. I've put some basic instructions into a pdf and I can give you some support since I don't exactly have people beating down my door to run it, lol. I've logged some 10 hours worth of data with it, with only 1 crash (and I'm not sure it was my code that was at fault), so it's pretty stable for such untested code. I also have a winlog plugin that Bucar requested over in one of the threads in the EFI tuning section. The winlog one is a little nicer in some ways.

I have been sort of doing parallel development with the 2 plugins, too. Any new stuff I've put in the winlog plugin I'm going to bring back to the logworks one. And if anyone would ever sell me a turbo smec 60 and 10 pin connector I'd start doing the smec development for both plugins. But Nooooo, no one has answered my thread in the wanted section with a connector. ;) My part wanted thread has turned into a MS QnA session which I've enjoyed, thoroughly :clap:

I wanted to port the logworks plugin back to an older non-.net-ized version of vb but it's a no-go (serial comms wouldn't work at baud rates <1200). So if you want to use it, you're going to have to install the .net framework 3.5. It's free, but it's one more thing that you have to install. That's part of the reason I haven't done any KC articles on it, I'd like get away from forcing people to install .net packages to run the program.

I'd really like to get them both to be c++ so I can use common code for all the mundane stuff. I don't know how long until I can get to that (may be a winter time project).

badandy
06-30-2008, 09:37 AM
Bumping an old thread... So what's your favorite WB setup? Which ones easily log A/F vs. RPM and MAP?
As far as the ability to log these parameters at the same time? Zeitronix hands down and straight out of the box without any add on's. You will have to connect your map to the "user" input and be able to convert the voltage.

You can add on Zeitronix's 3.5 bar map and log boost for another $130.00 or so.

slasky
06-30-2008, 09:52 AM
Thanks. I've got a functional copy if you want to play with the logworks plugin for logic modules. I've put some basic instructions into a pdf and I can give you some support since I don't exactly have people beating down my door to run it, lol. I've logged some 10 hours worth of data with it, with only 1 crash (and I'm not sure it was my code that was at fault), so it's pretty stable for such untested code. I also have a winlog plugin that Bucar requested over in one of the threads in the EFI tuning section. The winlog one is a little nicer in some ways.

I have been sort of doing parallel development with the 2 plugins, too. Any new stuff I've put in the winlog plugin I'm going to bring back to the logworks one. And if anyone would ever sell me a turbo smec 60 and 10 pin connector I'd start doing the smec development for both plugins. But Nooooo, no one has answered my thread in the wanted section with a connector. ;) My part wanted thread has turned into a MS QnA session which I've enjoyed, thoroughly :clap:

I wanted to port the logworks plugin back to an older non-.net-ized version of vb but it's a no-go (serial comms wouldn't work at baud rates <1200). So if you want to use it, you're going to have to install the .net framework 3.5. It's free, but it's one more thing that you have to install. That's part of the reason I haven't done any KC articles on it, I'd like get away from forcing people to install .net packages to run the program.

I'd really like to get them both to be c++ so I can use common code for all the mundane stuff. I don't know how long until I can get to that (may be a winter time project).
I am willing to give it a try. It will probably be a couple of weeks before I am ready though.

MiniMopar
06-30-2008, 11:25 AM
As I said, my TechEdge still works great.

Aries_Turbo
06-30-2008, 11:28 AM
mine too^^^

keith, i might have some time to test the winlog plugin tomorrow or wed.

Brian

risen
06-30-2008, 03:08 PM
mine too^^^

keith, i might have some time to test the winlog plugin tomorrow or wed.

Brian

Ok. LMK how it turns out. You're really the only other person who is using it besides me. I haven't had a chance to test the latest (unreleased) code yet.

I had a whole week off last week, but I was busy fixing cheap Ikea furniture and the suspension on my CSX.