Turbonator SMEC codebase

[ShelGame]

OK, Finally! Turbonator SMEC is ready to release. I finally fixed the problem I was having with the ASD. I have run this codebase on my car (modified to my car specs, of course) and I have tested most of the new features. I will note the un-tested features below.

Features:

1) Added OPTION flags for custom options - a full cal option flag constant similar to the CONFIG constant. All of the new and previous cal options are configurable by config flags. This allows features to be added to the cal without the need to re-assemble the code (or re-tune the cal to your setup!). The option flags are currently only supported in CHeM1 and D-Cal. CHeM2 has not added these types back in yet.

2) Added switchable boost - Similar in operation to my old '89 T1 cals.

3) Added Anti-lag Retard routine - This routine looks at the delta to boost goal and pulls up to 16 deg based on this delta (could be configured for 32 degrees as well). It will only pull timing at WOT (and so should not affect emmisions or driveability) except when the staging limiter is active to help spoolup off the line for manual cars. There were some necessary changes to the staging limiter code to support this function. But the functionality of the staging limiter is the same as previous.

4) Staging Limiter Changes - Added the option to enable the staging limiter by switch. Default is setup for the brake switch (useful for ATX cars). Other changes to support the Anti-Lag retard routine.

5) Added code for a 2-stage shift light - Uses the Upshift Indicator/PTU output on the SMEC for a built-in 2-stage shift light. Has 2 setpoints, 1 for 1st gear, 1 for other gears. Also, it is a 3-step light. It will flash the light 3 times before the shift at a set RPM interval to help anticipate the shift point. UNTESTED at this point. I built this to help me hit my shift points more accurately in my race car.

6) Re-scaled Vol Eff table - VolEff table rescaled to 50-150% to allow for induction systems capable of over 100% Vol Eff.

7) Hi-speed Datalogger - Added code to allow interrupt driven datalogger written by Jason Richardson (xrattiracer).

8) Alky Injection Routine - Coming Soon! Not included in this release.

9) Customized Boost Control Routine - Added some custom code and an additional table to modify the WG duty Cycle as an additional anti-lag measure.


This calibration data in this codebase is based on the '89 MP T1 (ATX and MTX). I added assembler options to build either the ATX or MTX versions, as well as 2- and 3-bar.

EDIT:v14.8 now posted! - Fixed a code error with the Anti-Lag calculation. I think this could be the cause of the random misfire. And it definitely did not work correctly with respect to the anti-lag feature.

v15 coming soon - will add some new features - PTU control and a spark-based rev limiter option. Should be better for staging and anti-lag off the line.

All of the documentation for the code mods is in the assy file, so you need to read thru and find the comments if you want the full details.

Turbonator SBEC is in progress!

[mcsvt]

Looks good Rob, I'll let you know if I get to test it.

Thanks :thumb:

[quantum]

Awsome! Great work. I can't wait to see your SBEC code as well.

[ShelGame]

Oh! I also plan to add 2.2 calibration data for a future release. For now, this includes only 2.5 cal data...

[moparzrule]

Darn, of course this gets released the same time I switch back to a 2.2 LOL. I'll wait I guess.

[moparzrule]

I downloaded it anyway just to look at it. It made D-cal freeze up, but opens fine in chem2. ???

[ShelGame]

Yeah, I don't know exactly what the deal is with that. The assembler does something funky to the table file when it writes it. If you open it in CHeM1 first, then save it (without making any changes) it will open fine in D-Cal. I've looked and can't see anything different before and after openeing with CHeM1, so I dunno what the deal is. It's just some sort of table file glitch caused by the assembler.

I'm going to ask Geoff to open up his assembler code, so I can try to tweak it a little.

[moparzrule]

Hmm, I don't have Chem1, can somebody post here or PM me a zip file for that?

[ShelGame]

Here ya go...

[moparzrule]

It worked, thats interesting LOL. Thanks rob.

[mcsvt]

Matt I had the same issue with D-cal, I went on the Yahoo group and downloaded the latest version as I was working with a really old one... Worked fine on that version.

Also it opened fine in Chem and Chem2, I had to go find Chem as I didn't have that one.

[ShelGame]

I get the same crash with D-Cal 1.2 (the latest version)...

[mcsvt]

Guess I'm just special on this one... All I did was overwrite the old D-Cal files with what was in the 1.2 zip...

[wowzer]

couple things i noticed in the .asm file that may help the crashes. In particular the .chem table definitions:

1) CruiseControlMaxSetSpeedTimesTwo - uses .chem 6 table def which i think requires up to 8 choices to be defined.
2) CruiseControlMinSetSpeedTimesTwo - uses .chem 6 table def which i think requires up to 8 choices to be defined.

this seemed to fix the crashes for me.

Also, other defs to look at:

1) KnockRetardIncreaseRate - .chem 3 - the word INCSRT is in there twice
2) OverboostFuelShutOffEnablePointFromMap - looks like it is defined twice

Lastly, in the .tbl file provided i think address 86bc should be defined as a constant 8 bit.

[ShelGame]

couple things i noticed in the .asm file that may help the crashes. In particular the .chem table definitions:

1) CruiseControlMaxSetSpeedTimesTwo - uses .chem 6 table def which i think requires up to 8 choices to be defined.
2) CruiseControlMinSetSpeedTimesTwo - uses .chem 6 table def which i think requires up to 8 choices to be defined.

this seemed to fix the crashes for me.

Also, other defs to look at:

1) KnockRetardIncreaseRate - .chem 3 - the word INCSRT is in there twice
2) OverboostFuelShutOffEnablePointFromMap - looks like it is defined twice

Lastly, in the .tbl file provided i think address 86bc should be defined as a constant 8 bit.


Thanks! Yep, that fixes the D-Cal crashing. I'll incorporate these changes into v12.

[wowzer]

actually 86bc should be changed to chem type 3 in the .asm file under
REVLMT_MapLimpinAndThrAbove25PercentLower1850. sorry.

[Stratman]

I am rusty with this stuff already! Please, explain how to use the assembler batch file to create an output.

[ShelGame]

Just run the batch file, it will create all of the files.

As it is, the supplied .bin and .asm are setup for 33pph injectors, 3-bar MAP, and ATX trans. You can re-set the switches in the .asm file for MTX (for example) and run the batch file, and you get a .bin, .tbl, .calx, etc. for the MTX.

[Stratman]

Thanks Rob,
I remember having this problem years ago. I forgot to include the ChemAsmSMEC and Ezlink files in the folder.
It works now, but it gives me this:
?ASxxxx-Error-<q> in line 2367 of Turbonator_SMEC_v11.asm
<q> missing or improper operators, terminators, or delimiters

[1966 dart wagon]

awesome coding i'll have to try and look into it and read more about all these tuning things on the tm's. how exactly does antilag work, it pulls timming at 16degrees vac. when full throttle, how exactly does this build boost when your not moving, cause from my understanding you need to have a 'load' on the engine to build boost, yet ive seen hondas and some dsms do it :confused:

[ShelGame]

It builds boost by allowing the fuel to burn in the manifold rather than the combustion chamber.

It pulls up to 16deg of timing based on the delta to boost target; if you're in vac, the boost target is set to 0 normally, so you'd get no anti-lag.

[wowzer]

Thanks Rob,
I remember having this problem years ago. I forgot to include the ChemAsmSMEC and Ezlink files in the folder.
It works now, but it gives me this:
?ASxxxx-Error-<q> in line 2367 of Turbonator_SMEC_v11.asm
<q> missing or improper operators, terminators, or delimiters

do a search in the .asm file for this label:
HIGHM2_ColdLoadFromCoolantTemp2

on point 5 there is an extra comma after the last data byte (0x00):
.byte 0xc7, 0x00, ; point 5

try deleting the comma and rerunning.

[Stratman]

That was it. Problem fixed. Thanks.
This happened when changing the MTX bit in the assembly file which makes sense due to the comma being under the "if MTX" lines.

[Stratman]

Would there be a problem to change the flags in D-Cal and tune it with zChem2? I looks like it should work ok to me.

[Stratman]

Someone needs to post some video of the anti lag in action on the TD cars.

[ShelGame]

Would there be a problem to change the flags in D-Cal and tune it with zChem2? I looks like it should work ok to me.

Yes, that will work fine...

[1966 dart wagon]

Someone needs to post some video of the anti lag in action on the TD cars.

agreed :amen::hail::thumb:

[Stratman]

It looks like I actually got the LM_V6 to work correctly after changing the MTX option. Since I got the new Daytona I tried to create the SMEC MTX v11 cal tonight. No matter what I did it would continuously crash D-Cal even after trying to fix all the known problem stated in this thread. I tried to save in CHEM1 which worked for the LM code but not the SMEC MTX I assembled. Any thoughts?

[wowzer]

hmm - after making the changes posted in 14,16 and 22 it worked for me with d-cal. i also flipped the switch for mtx and recompiled and d-cal read it in ok, then flipped the switch for 3 bar, recompiled and d-cal read it in ok. does it work when you flip those two switches to the other settings? also in post 14 did you modify all 4 items mentioned or just the first 2? i fixed all 4. ????

have you modified the smec .asm in other ways?

[Stratman]

Holy crap! I have been running on D-Cal 1.14. Using D-cal 1.20 worked.

[Stratman]

Nice. It works! Boost will hit 10 psi with the 3500 rev limiter on a stock T2 turbo. While playing around I think I smelled the cat burning.:D
Rob, does the "Park/Neutral" switch in the cal work with the manual trans with the clutch engaged? My clutch switch isn't working right now so I couldn't check. If it works that way I'll fix it.

[ShelGame]

Hmm, I'm not sure. You'll need to check a wiring diagram to see if the clutch switch goes into the same input on the 60-way as the P/N switch.

[Stratman]

I believe it's the same. Seems that would be the way to do it. Too bad there is something wrong with mine to try it.

[ShelGame]

I'm getting v12 ready to go. It will have a 2.2 build option with all of the values converted from the '89T2 cal (well, some fudged using the VNT cal since it's about as closely related).

Any other requests/suggestions/comments before I release v12?

Any specific requests for added functionality?

[ShelGame]

OK, v12 is now posted. Look at the 1st post for the download.

I added a 2.2 build option and calibration values from the 2.2 T2 cal (plus a little from the VNT where applicable). And, I fixed an error I had in the anti-lag that would lookup the wrong value.

[MopàrBCN]

Hi, being quite new to this type of work I have started playing around with ladybug60 and finally had the balls to use a socketed smec logicboard I bought a while a go from a user here and burnt my first chip. Amazingly it worked at the first go.

Now I have studied your v12 basecal and have built a T2 version of it.

From what I understand your initial code was based on ladybug, am I right? Now I am quite keen on using your version after all for the features of switchable boost and the staging mod, which seems amazingly thought through.

After I scaled your cal for my +40 injectors using chem2 I compared my ladybug built with the built of your cal.

Obviously there are things which I am far off from understanding.
However, one thing I noticed - and maybe there is an easy way to explain this:

Apart from the obvious differences in options I noticed that the FullThrottleWastegateDutyCycle_C8is100Percent_From Map graph was completely oposite in your cal to the same one in ladybug60. Grafically speaking it is like a mirror image.

The same extreme I noticed with FanTurnsOnWhenBatteryTempAboveThis (yours -151.48 and mine at 57) and FanTurnsOnWhenMapAboveBaroPlusThis (yours at 43.93psi mine at 3.x)

The fan schedule thing I think I even understand so far, as you have set the battery temp so low that it has no other option to turn on so my guess was you did not want to depend on the boost for the schedule (for the fact that you have 2 boost settings) - well that was my interpretation.

My comments are after all an intent to learn something. I am far away from being able to put constructive comments! But it would really interest me to understand how to explain those differences.

Hope you don't mind me asking, after all I really apreciate your work!!!!

[ShelGame]

Hi, being quite new to this type of work I have started playing around with ladybug60 and finally had the balls to use a socketed smec logicboard I bought a while a go from a user here and burnt my first chip. Amazingly it worked at the first go.

Now I have studied your v12 basecal and have built a T2 version of it.

From what I understand your initial code was based on ladybug, am I right? Now I am quite keen on using your version after all for the features of switchable boost and the staging mod, which seems amazingly thought through.

No, this was originally based on the '89 2.5 T1 code. Ladybug was based on the '89 T2, which was an evolution of the original '87 code. There are a lot of essential differences in the code and how it works. There are many similarities as well, however.

After I scaled your cal for my +40 injectors using chem2 I compared my ladybug built with the built of your cal.

Obviously there are things which I am far off from understanding.
However, one thing I noticed - and maybe there is an easy way to explain this:

Apart from the obvious differences in options I noticed that the FullThrottleWastegateDutyCycle_C8is100Percent_From Map graph was completely oposite in your cal to the same one in ladybug60. Grafically speaking it is like a mirror image.

That's because the boost control in the '89 T1 is different from the T2. The T1 is a 'bleed' control while the T2 is a 'signal' control. The effect is the duty cycle is reversed at the solenoid, and so the tables look like mirror images of each other. I'm thinking I'll add in the T2 style boost control as an option for a later version. VNT boost control is even theoretically possible.

The same extreme I noticed with FanTurnsOnWhenBatteryTempAboveThis (yours -151.48 and mine at 57) and FanTurnsOnWhenMapAboveBaroPlusThis (yours at 43.93psi mine at 3.x)

The fan schedule thing I think I even understand so far, as you have set the battery temp so low that it has no other option to turn on so my guess was you did not want to depend on the boost for the schedule (for the fact that you have 2 boost settings) - well that was my interpretation.

Not sure there. Though, again, the code is different. So, comparing values with the same name is not always an apples-to-apples comparison.

EDIT: I remember now. Those are for turning the fan on when in boost to increase the effectiveness of the I/C. If you're running an I/C, you can change those to match the T2 values. I'll do the same to the cal data for the next (v13) release. They're set that way in the 2.5 code because it (obviously) had no I/C from the factory.

My comments are after all an intent to learn something. I am far away from being able to put constructive comments! But it would really interest me to understand how to explain those differences.

Hope you don't mind me asking, after all I really apreciate your work!!!!

Not at all!

[MopàrBCN]

Hey, THANKS for your comments! Glad I asked!

I will test your code this weekend. Saturday is circle track day...
For sure here you have a T2 Test Daytona. I'll let you know how I get on!

PS: I will have to postpone testing, since I blew my lower intercooler hose....

[MopàrBCN]

Hi, today I had my first day with your v13 cal.

I refer to the Turbo II Build of this cal!

The changes I did:
-First of all I scaled it using Chem2 to use my +40 Injectors.

-The Fan Values were changed to those of the TII Ladybug60 Basecal and
-the same I did for the Wastegatedutycycle Values. (see comments in earlier posting)
-ConstantSparkAdvanceWhenSettingMinThrottleOpening was changed from
6º to 12º (I am honest, not sure why I did it, but I figured that I did...)

-Finally I lowerd BoostFromTime from 20PSI to 18PSI and raised the LowBoost Settings to 13PSI.

Beforehand: I think I screwed up a bit on the initial setting. Before posting this I re-checked what I have in D-Cal and figured, that I have forgotten to set any of the initial flags. So this may explain some of the problems I figured during driving.

Since I am reporting here about a Cal I should really mention my SetUp. What's good for me may not be good for someone else!!!!!

So here we go: 89 Daytona Turbo II. Hardware BONE STOCK. The only modifications are: 3 Bar Map, Wallbro 255l/h Fuelpump, +40 Injectors, 3 inch Exhaust and a Fidanza Flywheel. Throttlebody, Intake, Airbox, Intercooler, Turbo ALL STOCK!

Bearing in mind, that I had a Ladybug60 build installed until today I will naturally compare a bit to this.

1. Start Up/Cold Idle:
Perfect! The car started up right away. Here I noticed a big difference to my Ladybug build, that the car idled smooth right away. My Ladybug60 built had at cold a pretty unstable idle.

2. Warm Idle:
Here I was running into problems. Meanwhile the cold idle was perfect, once the car warmed up the idle got up to 2000 RPM and later fell to 1500RPM. This was constantly like this. I did not get any lower idle. Even after a good bit of driving.

Possible Reasons:
-I did not check any of the options available, so I suppose it ignored the charge temperature sensor.
-Maybe the fact that I changed this ConstantSparkAdvanceWhenSettingMinThrottleOpening from 6º to 12º??

Observation: When pressing the A/C Button (AC is currently disabled in the options section) when "off", IDLE was stable at 1500 when "on" it got up to 2000. The behavior itself I view correct. Just was surprised that it evaluated the switch button apart that AC was disabled.

3. Driving, Cruise/Part Throttle:
Since I forgot to set the Options I suppose it permanently set the "Low Boost" - Settings. I am not 100% sure. Reading my boost gauge I got top readings of 15-16PSI which is in turn a good bit less then what I got with Ladybug which was set at 18PSI so I suppose yes, it has the low boost settings as default.

Generally I noticed a big improvement to the Ladybug built I was using, especially when doing slow acceleration. Those were smooth and yet very responsive. My Ladybug built was very unstable when accelarating slowly, causing sporadic fuel cuts. Here I only senced one, but it was so quick that I could not check the RPM Gauge to see when it happened.

4. Full Throttle
Good!!! The car pulled away like you would expect from a spory car. It was like this impressive, and I can not wait seeing what I get when having switchable boost!!!

5. A/F
Here I want to be carefull since I do not have a Wideband Installed. The plugs are saying that it is slightly rich, (as far as you can say this after 90 miles of driving). I am using 98 Fuel, which here is widely available. The A/F Gauge I am using putting it as rich in full throttle. I am happy with this for the time being.

All in all: Besides the high idle my first impression is positive!

For your convenience I have uploaded my current edit!

Note: Here I have configured the config variables as well as that I have re-set the ConstantSparkAdvanceWhenSettingMinThrottleOpening value to 6º as it was in your initial build.

I will give this one a long distance test when I take the car up to Germany next week. This will be a total of 2500 miles with a good deal of high speed driving.

[MopàrBCN]

Ps: Seem to not understand how the uploads work, here another try:

PPS: More observations:

1. Warm Idle:
It seems to improve. Maybe this time the AIS Learning takes more time then I experienced before. So for the time being, I withdraw the comment about the idling. Today it idled fine when in gear and the clutch pressed. However it remained high in neutral.

2. Cruising:
There is an issue cruising at round 55mph with slight throttle in 5th gear. At around 2000 RPM until rd. 2500 RPM it misses frequently. It seems to be constantly repeating this miss as to something like every 20 seconds. Can't explain this. It is noticable but at the same time it is not strong.

3. Cruise Control:
The Cruise Control Does not work

4. MPG Info:
It seems that the trigger impulse for the MPG Info did not get scaled to the +40% injectors. 38 MPG would be great but...

5. CODES
I think those are normal but just for the record: I get this famous 62 (and have counted right!) followed by a 53.

QUESTION:

Yesterday I felt I was in Low Boost Mode. However, today doing some short Full Throttle Accelerations I got up to 18PSI of boost. Always!

Is the high boost automatically triggered when in full throttle? Or could it be that your cal defaults to high boost with no options set?

Anyway, before doing more with a setup I already know that I have not set it up right I will change chips today.

[ShelGame]

If you built it for ATX instaed of for MTX, then it would cause the idle issues exactly like you described. I would check that.

By default, swithable boost is not turned on. You have to do it with the cal after you build it. Then, you have to select a switch for the boost (using BSTSWS_HighBoostSwitchSelect). Otherwise, you only get high boost again.

Code 62 - it shouldn't be setting this. By default, this option is turned off. I'll look into it...

[moparzrule]

Rob. if you remember I was getting code 62 with the cal you sent me too awhile ago for my G headed 2.5l...Not sure why, I burned my own cal then with the 89mtxT1 base cal and did not have the code 62.

[MopàrBCN]

Hi, the "Auto Trans Bit" was and is checked OFF.

Just for your reference above I attach Screenshots of the all the Options Settings as I have them from now on: If you have a comment on them let me know!

Code 62: If I remember this well, the Code 62 is normally set when in DRB Test Mode! Could there be a byte set, which would normally be set by the DRBII ??

Once more, I really apreciate the work you have put into this, and I am quite happy to contribute in testing it!!

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9537/op1ul5.jpg
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3213/op2rm5.jpg
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/4295/op3ov7.jpg
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/6189/op4zu3.jpg

[MopàrBCN]

OK, I have changed chips and went for a quick round around the block.

1. High Boost/ Low Boost:

I think I was right about the Boosting defaulting to high boost. If I put the switch to on, it switches on LowBoost, and if I Switch it Off, it puts High boost. So I guess, having no option selected initially, it was defaulting to High Boost.

2. IDLE, is too early - only did unos 6miles so it still needs.

It seems to be fun!

Codes remain the same: 53,62

[ShelGame]

Hi, the "Auto Trans Bit" was and is checked OFF.

Just for your reference above I attach Screenshots of the all the Options Settings as I have them from now on: If you have a comment on them let me know!

Code 62: If I remember this well, the Code 62 is normally set when in DRB Test Mode! Could there be a byte set, which would normally be set by the DRBII ??

Once more, I really apreciate the work you have put into this, and I am quite happy to contribute in testing it!!

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9537/op1ul5.jpg
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3213/op2rm5.jpg
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/4295/op3ov7.jpg
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/6189/op4zu3.jpg

I can't see the screenshots now (work computer blocks image hosting sites). So, maybe this is what you did. If so, sorry.

But, you need to set the assembler options for manual trans, not just the cal option flag. This is because there are many tables/constants that have different calibration values depending on whether MTX or ATX. I think I uploaded the assembler to build a 2.5 ATX 3-bar.

[MopàrBCN]

Hi,

I had changed this to be like this, so apart from that I am not really an assembler guy, I feel I did it right, unless 0=True and 1=False.

After building the code I then scaled for my injectors. So I left the injector settings as they were.

; ************************************************** *********************
; TRANS TYPE
; ************************************************** *********************
;
; Set the calibration values for ATX or MTX with this assembler switch.
;
MTX == 1
ATX == 0
;
; One or the other of the trans values MUST be set. Not none, Not both. One.
;
;

and finally:

; ************************************************** *********************
; ENGINE DISPLACEMENT
; ************************************************** *********************
;
; Set the calibration values for ATX or MTX with this assembler switch.
;
Dspl_22 == 1
Dspl_25 == 0
;
; One or the other of the displacement values MUST be set. Not none,
; Not both. One.
;

Comparing the resulting cal to standard 2.2 T2 Cals shows that the main tables seem to be matching up exactly. The only difference was the fan schedule thing and the Wastegatedutycycle. But this you already explained.

Let's wait until I have done some milage with the current build to see if that resolves the idle issue. I feel the IDLE issue could calm down once the SMEC has learned its settings. With the first build I did with your cal it eventually got better!

The general feeling of this cal is GOOD! Way better then I felt with my Ladybug Build.

[ShelGame]

Yep, that's correct.

It could be that I missed some table for fuel scaling (you did the scaling in Chem2, right?). I'll look into that.

I still have not found the cause for code 62, though it is related to the EMR, which should ony run on the Minivans. :confused:


Hi,

I had changed this to be like this, so apart from that I am not really an assembler guy, I feel I did it right, unless 0=True and 1=False.

After building the code I then scaled for my injectors. So I left the injector settings as they were.

; ************************************************** *********************
; TRANS TYPE
; ************************************************** *********************
;
; Set the calibration values for ATX or MTX with this assembler switch.
;
MTX == 1
ATX == 0
;
; One or the other of the trans values MUST be set. Not none, Not both. One.
;
;

and finally:

; ************************************************** *********************
; ENGINE DISPLACEMENT
; ************************************************** *********************
;
; Set the calibration values for ATX or MTX with this assembler switch.
;
Dspl_22 == 1
Dspl_25 == 0
;
; One or the other of the displacement values MUST be set. Not none,
; Not both. One.
;

Comparing the resulting cal to standard 2.2 T2 Cals shows that the main tables seem to be matching up exactly. The only difference was the fan schedule thing and the Wastegatedutycycle. But this you already explained.

Let's wait until I have done some milage with the current build to see if that resolves the idle issue. I feel the IDLE issue could calm down once the SMEC has learned its settings. With the first build I did with your cal it eventually got better!

The general feeling of this cal is GOOD! Way better then I felt with my Ladybug Build.

[MopàrBCN]

Yep, I scaled with chem 2 and set the bit flags with d-cal.

Listen, this cal really rocks!! It is great fun driving the car. The idle issue is changing. There are moments when it starts idling well. Then you drive off and break at another traffic light and it idles high again. The more I drive it the better it gets, it seems. So don't start pulling your code apart as yet.

There is really nothing serious to complain about.

The only thing I have not tested yet is the staging mode.

My conclusion:

In low boost mode I could do what I wanted. Never got lean, never got knock. It's responsive enough for city driving and goes well.

In High Boost mode is where the fun starts. Here again, everything was fine. The car pulls really strong. It is great fun! Now I have to get back to the garage and sort out some handling issues. They become apparent in this mode :-).

So, as far as I am concerned, I really apreciate your work. If I can help you in any way, let me know!

[MopàrBCN]

Hi, quick question:

In your code you mention the program "injscale" but it seems to be not included in your batch file.

I wanted to test scaling injectors with this, as opposed to do it with chem 2.

I thought it may be included in your compileprogramm ChemAsmSMEC.exe so I changed the scaling in your .asm code file and rebuild the code. But it seems to have ignored it.

PS: I GOT RID OF CODE 62 !

Don't ask me how. Essentially, all I did was rebuilding the base cal with ChemAsmSMEC.exe. I did modified the "New Injector" value for my +40's - which did not scale the tables thow.
Also this time I only changed values with CHEM 2. Even the Options. Since I had a cal to compare to with the options already set I used the Slider In Chem 2 to change those. The only thing I did in D-Cal was to verify the Option Checkboxes.

However, now I am not getting code 62. The only remaining one is 53, which I know I can live with.

On the Idle of cause I am back to square 1. So testing starts again :eyebrows:

Ah, one thing, but this is not important: Once you try to view the properties in chem 2, the program would hang and close.

Changes I have done in this cal is basically:

1. Resetting the main fuel tables to what they were initially (I had leaned them out a bit, but experienced knock in high boost).
2. Scaled the FuelMonitorConversionfactor to 0210 (like this it's far more accurate)
3. Lowered AllowableBoostFromTime to 17.5 PSI (since I experienced Knock in High boost)
4. Matched Fan Schedules (to increase IC Efficiency) and Wastegatedutycycle to those in Ladybug60 (as you did mention, that Turbonator uses the Turbo 1 Boost Control)

Once I have done some more testing (only took it for a quick ride right now) I will post the changes.

[ShelGame]

4. Matched Fan Schedules (to increase IC Efficiency) and Wastegatedutycycle to those in Ladybug60 (as you did mention, that Turbonator uses the Turbo 1 Boost Control)


I'm not sure that will work with the WG tables. The control code is completely different - it's not as simple as reversing the table and the solenoid. It may work that way, but I doubt the tuning is exactly the same as the T2.

[MopàrBCN]

I'm not sure that will work with the WG tables. The control code is completely different - it's not as simple as reversing the table and the solenoid. It may work that way, but I doubt the tuning is exactly the same as the T2.

Hi, ok, not sure what to say now:

One thing for sure: The fans seem to turn on when needed, and it feels cooler then when original! I can not answer if they do as they would have done with ladybug60.

On the Wastegate: How would I note that it is not working right?

The boost comes in steady and as I need it. Where you may have a good point is, that in Lowboost sometimes it boosts way higher then expected - but not high enough to get worried. (right now set at 12.6PSI in Lowboost but gives me up to 15PSI as by my boost gauge)

The only time I got issues was in Highboost mode doing a until red line accelaration in third. When reaching 6000 RPM it got lean and as well as that it has triggered your "knock" light for a second. I immediately let of the throttle in this moment. I got about 19PSI from my gauge. (BoostFromTime was set at 18PSI but I think I am using a GM 3-Bar Map as oposed to the S60). But I thought I could explain this because I had leaned out the Full Throttle Fuel Table. Now I have reversed this.

Would you feel that it is safer, not to use your cal in a TII as yet?

PS: The matching of the Fan Schedules and Wastegatedutycycle curve I have done since my first test, just to let you know. Meanwhile I have put in the 3rd chip.

[ShelGame]

In your code you mention the program "injscale" but it seems to be not included in your batch file.

I wanted to test scaling injectors with this, as opposed to do it with chem 2.

I thought it may be included in your compileprogramm ChemAsmSMEC.exe so I changed the scaling in your .asm code file and rebuild the code. But it seems to have ignored it.

Yeah, that's a leftover from Ladybug/Blueberry. I don't think this program really works so well. I think I have a copy and I could include it. but, the functionality is now built-in to CHeM2, so I didn't include it.

On the Wastegate: How would I note that it is not working right?

The boost comes in steady and as I need it. Where you may have a good point is, that in Lowboost sometimes it boosts way higher then expected - but not high enough to get worried. (right now set at 12.6PSI in Lowboost but gives me up to 15PSI as by my boost gauge)

snip...

Would you feel that it is safer, not to use your cal in a TII as yet?

Well, if it seems to be working OK, then I guess it may be fine. My intention was to use the T1 style WG plumbing with this cal. Someday, I may add the T2 style WG control, but it's not a priority. T1 WG should be safer anyway (WG Solenoid failure = only 7psi boost; on T2 WG failure = uncontrolled boost!).

[MopàrBCN]

Hi,

Today I went to a circuit in my area and gave it a go. Also I went to a chip tuner, who is in my local club and we put the car on a dyno.

First of all, your code and calibration is awsome. I think (this is not my opinion but the opinion of the tuner) this code in a T1 car rocks!

However, you are right, there are things to optimize for a T2 car.

But before I go into this, let's see where it is awsome even for a T2 car:

This cal in high boost mode and Staging function enabled is Top Notch!!! So anyone looking for a quick option to get good results in the 1/4 mile, your cal is the business even for a T2 car. The antilag works the business, the staging limiter works to the point and the fueling is perfect (at least for my car)!!!

Now, where are the drawbacks for a T2 car:

Those come into play in Low Boost mode and in both modes when driving normally, i.e. part throttle cruising, city traffic etc....

1.: You are absolutely right, with the wastegate funcionality. This is functioning like the lottery with what I did to it. (NOTE, I DID NOT USE HIS CALIBRATION BUT CHANGED HIS DUTYCYCLEMAPS TO WHAT I FELT WERE T2 VALUES). So in lowboost, using those settings, the cal is not as recomendable for a T2 car. You will be hitting overboost ever so often, sometimes doing nothing but accelerating a tiny bit. The only remedy for me was putting the Overboost cut out high, so that you would not notice.

Here I am absolute rooky, so yes I will try to study your code (I am IT Guy - but 0 experience with assembler) but doubt that I will be able to resolve it soon. But motivation is there!!!

PS: I have never tested the code with the Wastegatedutysettings as they come per default in this cal!

2. The idle issue does not get resolved without putting hands on it. Yes, it does get better after ca. 100 miles of driving. But the problem remains.

I will explain:

a. If you start the car (hot or cold) with no throttle pressed it idles fine (rd. 900-1000 rpm). If you leave it idling without any throttle action it stays stable. However, it idles very rich!

b. If you only tip the gas once up from then it goes up to 1500 and always stays there.

c. If you are driving and coming to a stop and leave the car in gear with the clutch depressed it idles fine (this gets better the more you drive). HOWEVER, the moment you put the car in neutral gear the idle goes up.

d. The idle between shifts gets better with time. So this is actually fine.

I won't comment on fueling in general because this is something everybody has in its own hands. The main fueling tables once set right for your car will give a constant A/F (constant meaning always within it's limits) over the hole bandwidth.

However, when on the dyno, the guy made a comment to me and asked if the cal has shift points set for automatic transmission. He said to me that he suspected this because the fueling and sparc changes at certain RPM Ranges. He promised to do me a report which once I have it I will translate it into English, and let you have it.

-This may explain why y experience this funny behavior doing rd. 55 mph at 2000 rpm

Maybe - but I am way from being qualified to comment on this - your code ignores the disabling of the AutoTrans at certain points.

So, this means for me, that I will keep a chip with the cal set to highboost and with the staging limiter once I go racing, but for day to day driving I will go back to the drawing board. I hope I can help you resolving the issues, because overall this is a great thought through program. This is the first time I envy T1 ATX guys.....

[ShelGame]

Hi,

Today I went to a circuit in my area and gave it a go. Also I went to a chip tuner, who is in my local club and we put the car on a dyno.

First of all, your code and calibration is awsome. I think (this is not my opinion but the opinion of the tuner) this code in a T1 car rocks!

However, you are right, there are things to optimize for a T2 car.

But before I go into this, let's see where it is awsome even for a T2 car:

This cal in high boost mode and Staging function enabled is Top Notch!!! So anyone looking for a quick option to get good results in the 1/4 mile, your cal is the business even for a T2 car. The antilag works the business, the staging limiter works to the point and the fueling is perfect (at least for my car)!!!

Now, where are the drawbacks for a T2 car:

Those come into play in Low Boost mode and in both modes when driving normally, i.e. part throttle cruising, city traffic etc....

1.: You are absolutely right, with the wastegate funcionality. This is functioning like the lottery with what I did to it. (NOTE, I DID NOT USE HIS CALIBRATION BUT CHANGED HIS DUTYCYCLEMAPS TO WHAT I FELT WERE T2 VALUES). So in lowboost, using those settings, the cal is not as recomendable for a T2 car. You will be hitting overboost ever so often, sometimes doing nothing but accelerating a tiny bit. The only remedy for me was putting the Overboost cut out high, so that you would not notice.

Here I am absolute rooky, so yes I will try to study your code (I am IT Guy - but 0 experience with assembler) but doubt that I will be able to resolve it soon. But motivation is there!!!

PS: I have never tested the code with the Wastegatedutysettings as they come per default in this cal!

2. The idle issue does not get resolved without putting hands on it. Yes, it does get better after ca. 100 miles of driving. But the problem remains.

I will explain:

a. If you start the car (hot or cold) with no throttle pressed it idles fine (rd. 900-1000 rpm). If you leave it idling without any throttle action it stays stable. However, it idles very rich!

b. If you only tip the gas once up from then it goes up to 1500 and always stays there.

c. If you are driving and coming to a stop and leave the car in gear with the clutch depressed it idles fine (this gets better the more you drive). HOWEVER, the moment you put the car in neutral gear the idle goes up.

d. The idle between shifts gets better with time. So this is actually fine.

I won't comment on fueling in general because this is something everybody has in its own hands. The main fueling tables once set right for your car will give a constant A/F (constant meaning always within it's limits) over the hole bandwidth.

However, when on the dyno, the guy made a comment to me and asked if the cal has shift points set for automatic transmission. He said to me that he suspected this because the fueling and sparc changes at certain RPM Ranges. He promised to do me a report which once I have it I will translate it into English, and let you have it.

-This may explain why y experience this funny behavior doing rd. 55 mph at 2000 rpm

Maybe - but I am way from being qualified to comment on this - your code ignores the disabling of the AutoTrans at certain points.

So, this means for me, that I will keep a chip with the cal set to highboost and with the staging limiter once I go racing, but for day to day driving I will go back to the drawing board. I hope I can help you resolving the issues, because overall this is a great thought through program. This is the first time I envy T1 ATX guys.....


I think I may know what the idle issue is. Can you try something for me? In the CONFIG constant, set bit 1 (labelled as 'Debug', currently). I have set this to 0, but in the stock cals, it is set to 1. It is only used in the TPS enrichment. I'm not sure yet the intended function, but it changes when the code looks at TPS for transient fuel vs. when it looks at MAP for transient fuel. It may or may not have an effect on the idle issues.

Also, try setting 'SSTEMP_TempAboveWhichSparkScatterIsActive' to the ATX value (0x58). In the MP MTX cal, this is FE, but in the MP ATX and all stock cals, it is 0x58. It is the temperature that the ECU switches to spark scatter to control idle. So, at 0xFE, it basically will never use spark scatter to control idle.

The same for 'SSIPRD_ScatterInhibitBelowThisSpeed' - use the ATX value of 0x0033 instead of the MTX value of 0xfe33. This would also inhibit using spark scatter to control idle.

I think these 2 changes were made to the MP cal for road racing use. You can see it would be an advantage to have the idle stay high when shifting gears thru a corner.

[MopàrBCN]

Hi, will do this!!! Let you know later on !

[MopàrBCN]

Here a quick one, while I am at it:

1. 'SSTEMP_TempAboveWhichSparkScatterIsActive' and 'SSIPRD_ScatterInhibitBelowThisSpeed' I do set within the source code, correct? And then I build again.

2. The DEBUG option I will set to 1 using D-Cal

Question: Will I leave the Wastegatedutycycle Settings as you have defined them??? As oposed to try to match them with the T2 curve?

THX!

[ShelGame]

Here a quick one, while I am at it:

1. 'SSTEMP_TempAboveWhichSparkScatterIsActive' and 'SSIPRD_ScatterInhibitBelowThisSpeed' I do set within the source code, correct? And then I build again.

2. The DEBUG option I will set to 1 using D-Cal

Question: Will I leave the Wastegatedutycycle Settings as you have defined them??? As oposed to try to match them with the T2 curve?

THX!

You can change those value in D-Cal, too. You don't have to re-assemble.

The WG, you can do with what you want. If you change it to the values as I put them, you'll need to change your WG plumbing, too.

[MopàrBCN]

Hi,

done it!

At a first glance I still have hi idle but not as high as before!. I will now check my vacuum tubing to see if there is a coincidence. I must say, that until I started testing, it was idling fine, but you never know.

What has improved noticable is the first start. It sounds now as it was when stock. Smooth and no dark exhaust gases.

When coming back after a 10 mile testround, the idle was at around 1200rpm. But wait until this evening, because I have some more driving to do. So I will watch this.

It seems, I actually got rid of the knock in high boost. This is the good news. Also this time it seems the wastegate is operating properly in low boost mode! It stops boosting right at 12PSI.

Ah, and again I am getting Code 62...... So, not sure what I did last time when I definately got rid of it....BUT THIS IS MY VIEW HAS NO PRIO!!!

I am still having fun with it!! Though, I am starting to feel like wanting a flashable logicboard. You wouldn't have one for sale??

[Stratman]

Hi Rob,

Just some input from another's testing on an 89 T2 specs w/ manual trans. I have been trying this code off and on all this week and have had the same issues as MopàrBCN. Step on the throttle, let off, VERY slow to idle back down and takes a long time to make it from 1500 to 1000 RPM. Stays very rich at idle, even pulling the PE down dramatically will make it lean for a second then back up to steady rich with no luck making it Stoich. After staring at it for a while I notice it acts like a glich as the A/F will quickly dropped leaner for a a matter of milliseconds then instantly back to rich. I have very little time to mess with it this week, but I figure it would be good to post what I have already found. Boost control is not controled by the ecu on my Daytona so I have no input on boost schedules.

[ShelGame]

Hi Rob,

Just some input from another's testing on an 89 T2 specs w/ manual trans. I have been trying this code off and on all this week and have had the same issues as MopàrBCN. Step on the throttle, let off, VERY slow to idle back down and takes a long time to make it from 1500 to 1000 RPM. Stays very rich at idle, even pulling the PE down dramatically will make it lean for a second then back up to steady rich with no luck making it Stoich. After staring at it for a while I notice it acts like a glich as the A/F will quickly dropped leaner for a a matter of milliseconds then instantly back to rich. I have very little time to mess with it this week, but I figure it would be good to post what I have already found. Boost control is not controled by the ecu on my Daytona so I have no input on boost schedules.

Try the fixes noted above. I'm 99% sure that's the idle speed issue and at least part of the idle richness.

[MopàrBCN]

HEY MAN. your FIX DID IT !!! It took about 100km but now it's steady idling at 900!!!!!!!!!!

[Stratman]

The same for 'SSIPRD_ScatterInhibitBelowThisSpeed' - use the ATX value of 0x0033 instead of the MTX value of 0xfe33. This would also inhibit using spark scatter to control idle.

When I looked at that constant in this code it showed to be 0001 before I changed it.

[MopàrBCN]

Hi,

This is how mine looks now. I changed it in code and the previous values were as stated. Then I have rebuild the hole lot and done the Wastegate Adjustments, Fueling etc. in D-Cal/Chem 2...

SSTEMP_TempAboveWhichSparkScatterIsActive:
.chem 3 n TempAboveWhichSparkScatterIsActive in_desc 0 65535 in Coolant_Temp -200 260 Degrees SSTEMP Temperature_above_which_spark_scatter_is_active
chem2 byte SSTEMP use "Coolant Temp" -200 260 Degrees "Temperature above which Spark Scatter is active"
.if ATX
.byte 0x58
.endif

.if MTX
.byte 0x58
.endif

SSIPRD_ScatterInhibitBelowThisSpeed:
.chem 4 n ScatterInhibitBelowThisSpeed in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 255 out SSIPRD Spark_Scatter
chem2 word SSIPRD "Spark Scatter inhibited below this speed."
.if ATX
.word 0x0033
.endif

.if MTX
.word 0x0033
.endif

[ShelGame]

Hi,

This is how mine looks now. I changed it in code and the previous values were as stated. Then I have rebuild the hole lot and done the Wastegate Adjustments, Fueling etc. in D-Cal/Chem 2...

SSTEMP_TempAboveWhichSparkScatterIsActive:
.chem 3 n TempAboveWhichSparkScatterIsActive in_desc 0 65535 in Coolant_Temp -200 260 Degrees SSTEMP Temperature_above_which_spark_scatter_is_active
chem2 byte SSTEMP use "Coolant Temp" -200 260 Degrees "Temperature above which Spark Scatter is active"
.if ATX
.byte 0x58
.endif

.if MTX
.byte 0x58
.endif

SSIPRD_ScatterInhibitBelowThisSpeed:
.chem 4 n ScatterInhibitBelowThisSpeed in_desc 0 65535 in Y 0 255 out SSIPRD Spark_Scatter
chem2 word SSIPRD "Spark Scatter inhibited below this speed."
.if ATX
.word 0x0033
.endif

.if MTX
.word 0x0033
.endif

Actually, because of the way I sent it up to do the 2.2/2.5, those constants are defined in 2 places each. So, you really need to change all of them. For Turbonator v13, I simply removed the ATX/MTX build swithces so that it will always build the same value regardless. I'll put a note in the .tbl and .calx files on how to change it for road-race duty.

On that note - any requests for v13? I have some ideas, but I'd love to hear more.

[MopàrBCN]

There is one thing:

would it be possible to engage Highboost and Staging mode with one Switch, i.E. A/C Switch. That way one could use the cruise control. The only thing right now, that I really miss is the Cruise Control, which in Turbonator does not seem to work, at least once asigned as a boost switch (and I have not tried another option).

Also one thing that would be really cool would be a Turbo II Switch which would utilize the T2 Wastegatecontrol and Fancontrol. But at this point I must admit I am very happy the way it works!

Monday I will start the long distance test when I go to Germany with the car. This is going to be fun.

[ShelGame]

There is one thing:

would it be possible to engage Highboost and Staging mode with one Switch, i.E. A/C Switch. That way one could use the cruise control. The only thing right now, that I really miss is the Cruise Control, which in Turbonator does not seem to work, at least once asigned as a boost switch (and I have not tried another option).

Also one thing that would be really cool would be a Turbo II Switch which would utilize the T2 Wastegatecontrol and Fancontrol. But at this point I must admit I am very happy the way it works!

Monday I will start the long distance test when I go to Germany with the car. This is going to be fun.

Yes, you can use the same switch for staging mode and switchable boost right now. Just select the same switch for each option.

Also, I realized that the 2.2 cal data I copied is from the MP T2 cal. So, the closed loop O2 control is set to bias it toward the rich side. I may change that to use the stock O2 kicks.

[starman]

......

2. Warm Idle:
Here I was running into problems. Meanwhile the cold idle was perfect, once the car warmed up the idle got up to 2000 RPM and later fell to 1500RPM. This was constantly like this. I did not get any lower idle. Even after a good bit of driving.

......


Try the fixes noted above. I'm 99% sure that's the idle speed issue and at least part of the idle richness.

I have the same symptoms, but in your SBEC cal, any chances this can be corrected in the same way? :confused2:

[ShelGame]

I have the same symptoms, but in your SBEC cal, any chances this can be corrected in the same way? :confused2:

No, not likely to be the same issue...

[MopàrBCN]

@starman, ¿que tal?, I think it is important to point out that Idle after a chip swap may need more then 100km of driving to stabalize!!

On Turbonator Issue, once I applied the fix, it only showed to work after more then a 100km of driving!

This info just in case that you recently swapped cals.

[starman]

Yes, indeed after 80 to 100 kms the idle come to normal after swapping cals. Thanks ;)

[MopàrBCN]

Rob, I have one more comment:

In my current edit of Turbonator, I have assigned the Cruisecontrol on/off switch for switching between Highboost (on) and Lowboost (off). So far that is functioning great.

The Staging mode I have assigned to the A/C Switch. Now, here it is behaving oposite. With AC OFF the Staing mode is on and with A/C ON the staging mode is off.

Now, I have set up another chip for my trip. Within this I assigned the AC Switch for Highboost and Staging mode. Having realized the way the staging mode is switched, I have set the flag for switching boost polarity to get Highboost, when I want staging. I have not had a chance to test this yet, but I assume, now with the AC Switch off I am getting staging and Highboost. This would mean to drive normally with lowboost I would have to switch the AC Switch ON. BUT, this in turn switches the Ventilator permanently ON, a behavior I would rather like, when in High boost.

Tu cut a long story short, I am not sure, if this is a problem with the AC Switch or with the way the stagin mode is set in the program.

If the stagin mode is per default on, I would turn it off by default, since this is an option you would want to explicitely select as a user.

If in turn it is a problem of the way the AC Switch is interpreted, then I would correct this, because assigning highboost and staging to the AC Switch "ON" has the added benefit, that the ventilator comes on once you select the Switch, which in Highboost and during stagin I see as a benefit!

This only as input from my observations. It is only an opinion! The cal meanwhile works really great!

[ShelGame]

Rob, I have one more comment:

In my current edit of Turbonator, I have assigned the Cruisecontrol on/off switch for switching between Highboost (on) and Lowboost (off). So far that is functioning great.

The Staging mode I have assigned to the A/C Switch. Now, here it is behaving oposite. With AC OFF the Staing mode is on and with A/C ON the staging mode is off.

Now, I have set up another chip for my trip. Within this I assigned the AC Switch for Highboost and Staging mode. Having realized the way the staging mode is switched, I have set the flag for switching boost polarity to get Highboost, when I want staging. I have not had a chance to test this yet, but I assume, now with the AC Switch off I am getting staging and Highboost. This would mean to drive normally with lowboost I would have to switch the AC Switch ON. BUT, this in turn switches the Ventilator permanently ON, a behavior I would rather like, when in High boost.

Tu cut a long story short, I am not sure, if this is a problem with the AC Switch or with the way the stagin mode is set in the program.

If the stagin mode is per default on, I would turn it off by default, since this is an option you would want to explicitely select as a user.

If in turn it is a problem of the way the AC Switch is interpreted, then I would correct this, because assigning highboost and staging to the AC Switch "ON" has the added benefit, that the ventilator comes on once you select the Switch, which in Highboost and during stagin I see as a benefit!

This only as input from my observations. It is only an opinion! The cal meanwhile works really great!

That's why I put the polarity option in there. The A/C switch isn't actualy directly connected to the SMEC. That input on the SMEC is from the A/C clutch, which is actived indirectly from the A/C switch on the dash. And - for whatever reason - has opposite polarity to the other switches. I don't know that I'd recommend using that one, actually. Unless you've removed the A/C compressor and directly wire that input to a switch.

[MopàrBCN]

Just to understand you right:

If I set the Boostswitchpolarity, this affects all switchable modes or only the boost modes? If it switches all modes then I actually would be fine!

I have taken your point on the AC Switch! In my case I have the AC installed but no belt connected (It jumped off and I did not put it back on). So obviously the clutch sends it signal to the SMEC. But you are right, the more serious into racing folks won't even have their AC equipment installed, which would make the switch useless, although I find the idea interesting wiring a switch, that the smec interprets as clutch engagement!

Another one: Your code would permit cruise control, wouldn't it? It did not work, while I had the boostswitching assigned to it. Today, since I assigned all to the AC Switch, I did not have a chance to test it...

[ShelGame]

Just to understand you right:

If I set the Boostswitchpolarity, this affects all switchable modes or only the boost modes? If it switches all modes then I actually would be fine!

I have taken your point on the AC Switch! In my case I have the AC installed but no belt connected (It jumped off and I did not put it back on). So obviously the clutch sends it signal to the SMEC. But you are right, the more serious into racing folks won't even have their AC equipment installed, which would make the switch useless, although I find the idea interesting wiring a switch, that the smec interprets as clutch engagement!

Another one: Your code would permit cruise control, wouldn't it? It did not work, while I had the boostswitching assigned to it. Today, since I assigned all to the AC Switch, I did not have a chance to test it...

NO, actually, the polarity only affects the boost switch. I can add a polarity toggle for the staging limiter to, though.

It's just an input to the SMEC. The SMEC interprets it as whatever you tell it to interpret it as. The A/C can be disabled by a flag, then use the A/C Clutch input as whatever you want.

Cruise should work fine. I didn't modify that from the stock code.

[MopàrBCN]

Hi, got back today from my 3000 Mile durability Test :-)

- Since most of the problems got sorted out beforehand there is not a lot left to say:

I really only had 2 issues which I am not 100 per cent sure how to tackle those:

1. At high speeds, using 98 Fuel -> above 100mph and more then 10PSI It leaned out and the CEL came on. One possibility I account for is that I am still using the stock fuelrail. When limiting boost to 10psi (mechanically) I could go all the way up to redline (130mph) with no issues, but having said this, I couldn't go any faster either.
Not sure how to tackle this: An easy fix would be to put more fuel up from 10psi. I definetely will go and put on the TU Fuelrail and finally the AFPR.

2. Boost: Now I know that the Wastegate routines come from a T1 car. So this problem propably does not have a fix for a T2 car.
-- In Lowboost: Until 3500 rpm it limits boost to 6psi (besides that I have set it much higher). Then it goes way up to 13psi which seems as I have put it. However sometimes it shoots up to 20psi. It seems to do it without prediction.
-- In Highboost: The lower rpm limitation seems not to excist. So it boosts in all RPM Ranges as high as it can. However, here I experienced the leaning out and Knock.

EDIT: I guess everybody is clear on that, but just in case: One thing you sure can't do anymore is using the DRBII for diagnosing issues. I have tested this as well and as expected you won't be able neither to read codes nor to invoke test routines. The cal, as I have it put in, identifies my car as a 3.0 Liter Turbo IV :lol:

My conclusion:

Overall drivability is PERFECT. I got a very decent gas milage and at lower speeds (<100mph) did not have any problem at all.

However: (THIS IS ONLY VALID FOR TURBO 2 CARS !!!) The impossibility to predictabally program the boost schedules for a T2 car is a serious drawback. I did not note this as a problem while doing my day to day driving, but on my last trip, spending a lot of my time on Motorways where the average speed is at lets say between 80mph (France) or much higher (Germany) overtaking a car becomes a challange for the drastic boost changes. If you go past the 4000 rpm mark it becomes stable. However you never know if you then get 13psi or if it will take you up to 20psi.

[Stratman]

I wouldn't think the fuel rail would be an issue at only 10 psi in the upper RPMs. What injectors are you running?
I've pushed 30 psi at 350 HP 430 FT Torque through the stock T2 rail, but that was the limit on this engine.

[MopàrBCN]

Hi,
just to clarify my issues: The leaning out began at 10psi! Until this point I was fine!

I use +40% MP Injectors and a 3 Bar Map Sensor. Also I use a Wallbro 255l/hr Fuelpump. So at that level I should be alright. The fuelfilter is new as well. The Cal was built with the options set for 3 bar Map. The injector scaling was done in Chem 2. I am certain to have done that right.

I assume that the base cals Volumetric Efficiency Values are based on a stock setup. But even if not it should have caused that I rather run rich then lean, having nothing ported at all in my hardware, other then the larger exhaust.

What I am not sure about is Make/Model of my MAP Sensor. I know that the Scaling for the 3 Bar Map is based on the MP S60 3 bar Map Sensor. I got mine from FWDPerformance. It could well be a GM Sensor. But I do not know this.

There are 2 things I am not clear on Chem 2 when doing the fuel calculations:

1. SCALING: When calculating fuel you are asked to give parameters for the Injector Flowrate (I am clear on that) and then the Fuel Quality etc. What I am not clear on are the parameters for Intake Temperature. I used the preset there. Also I used the preset on Max RPM (6500). Should I have scaled for a higher Intake Temperature? or More RPM?

2. Fueling graphs: After doing the fuel calculations and scaling for injectors Chem 2 produces a green guide graph. Basically what I have done is to move my fueling graphs near that guide line. On the lower RPM/PSI Scale this seems to work great since I have absolutely no issues. As well as this I compared fueling in "ready made" 3 bar +40 cals and it seems that those are not exactly the same but in the same range. Ok, my idea is clear, I will redo my fueling to go richer up from 10 psi.

Question: Am I right in saying that the 3 factors which influence knock in boost are Fuel, Timing and finally the boost itself?

I do not think I am over the top on boost. In fact I just re-checked everything and I have limited Max Boost to 17 PSI having overboost cutout set at 20psi (which I have never ever hit).

Timing I have never ever touched. It is as it came in the base cal.

The reason I am asking all this is, that I am trying to find out where to look at first. If it is my programming, than I know where to start and thus need to confirm that I know enough to do it right.
If it is my setup then I need to learn to set it up right.

[ShelGame]

Has anyone tried T-SMEC with a scan tool? Did it work OK?

I'm trying to ready a new (final?) release of MiniDash, and it now will not communicate with my SMEC. I don't think it's T-SMEC (MiniDash doesn't talk to my old stock-based cal, either) but I thought I'd ask.

Dunno what I broke in MiniDash - I've only been working on graphics stuff. I upgraded to a new version of the HB++ IDE, I wonder if that broke it.

[MopàrBCN]

I have tried it with an original Chrysler DRB II

The result is:

DRB II identifies Turbonator SMEC as 3.0 Turbo IV (I wish Chrysler would have ever done such a configuration :D)

Subsequently you can't use it to do any kind of analysis. Everything you try fails.

[ShelGame]

Really?! Very strange. Maybe the DRBII is old? What cartridge are you using?

What exactly does it do when you try to read parameters?

[MopàrBCN]

Hi, this is the original scan tool Chrysler used in his dealerships to diagnose our cars. So, no cartridges.

This is a scan tool a friend of mine has and he bought it of a chrysler dealer who gave up his business.

Our intention was to make some basic code checks but we did not even get there.

Once we connected it to the Scantool Port the Scantool started with diagnosing what model we are using and it came up, as said earlier, with 3.0 Turbo IV (which now turns out to be my nick name among the small german community).

Everything we did up from then failed. Trying to engage the fuelpump resulted in an error. Reading codes resulted in an error. Engaging solenoids, failed. Then we gave up.

When we hooked up the tool to a stock 91 T1 Daytona everything worked great.

As said, this is the scan tool chrysler uses. I have not tried any aftermarked scan tool but will soon when a friend of mine brings a AutoXRay along with a Chrysler Cartridge.

[ShelGame]

Hi, this is the original scan tool Chrysler used in his dealerships to diagnose our cars. So, no cartridges.

This is a scan tool a friend of mine has and he bought it of a chrysler dealer who gave up his business.

Our intention was to make some basic code checks but we did not even get there.

Once we connected it to the Scantool Port the Scantool started with diagnosing what model we are using and it came up, as said earlier, with 3.0 Turbo IV (which now turns out to be my nick name among the small german community).

Everything we did up from then failed. Trying to engage the fuelpump resulted in an error. Reading codes resulted in an error. Engaging solenoids, failed. Then we gave up.

When we hooked up the tool to a stock 91 T1 Daytona everything worked great.

As said, this is the scan tool chrysler uses. I have not tried any aftermarked scan tool but will soon when a friend of mine brings a AutoXRay along with a Chrysler Cartridge.


I have a DRBII also - it's been a while since I pulled it out, but I'm sure mine has cartridges for the different model ranges and model years.

If you want, try changing the first 4 bytes of the bin file (it's the P/N). If you have it setup as a 2.2 Manual, then it should have this code as built - 45 32 A1 31

Maybe change it to one of these and see if the DRBII likes it better:

52 35 B1 51
52 35 A1 05
52 35 A1 39

The 4532- was the Mopar Performance number. Maybe it doesn't recognize this number correctly (though, I don't know why that would be). The other 3 are production P/N's. It shouldn't matter as far as the DRBII is concerned, they all use the same memory map and DRB routines.

[MopàrBCN]

Hi, I have guarded your post. I won't be able to retest it with DRB II until my next trip to good old Germany which is going to take place end of june!
What is interesting me more at present is to see how it reacts with EZ Link / Auto X Ray and tools like this.
If all goes well, and I receive my new turbo early next week (:hail:) then I will take my car to a car show next weekend, where I will have a chance to test it with at least 2 more diagnostic tools, which friends will bring along. So I'll keep you posted!

[tryingbe]

Car spec

89 TII Daytona Shelby originally 2.2L now running a 2.5L long block, 2 piece intake manifold, slightly ported stock exhaust manifold, 86lbs injectors, TII Garrett turbo, 2.5 inch swingvalve, 3 inch downpipe with exhaust cut out, A555, 782 grooved head...etc

Change these before I complied the ASM file.

MTX == 1

SSIPRD_ScatterInhibitBelowThisSpeed = MTX value of 0x0033

SSTEMP_TempAboveWhichSparkScatterIsActive = MTX value (0x58)

Used the MoparChem to adjust for the 2.5L and 83 injectors. Didn't change anything else much. Using G-valve and set to 10psi

Fuel is almost perfect, just a little rich. :clap:
Is it default that the knock trigger the CEL to on? Because I didn't see CEL flash at all.
There is a miss during constant cruising speed, every 10-15 seconds or so, which I didn't have before with Ladybug.

Other wise, I don't notice anything else...


On that note - any requests for v13? I have some ideas, but I'd love to hear more.

The cal totally messed up the 12 button navigator gas mileage scale, it's 2 to 2 1/2 time it should be.

[MopàrBCN]

"The cal totally messed up the 12 button navigator gas mileage scale, it's 2 to 2 1/2 time it should be...."

This is easy to solve in Chem 2: Just edit the properties of the variable "FuelMonitorConversionFactor" so that the Checkbox "Scale with Injectors" is checked and do the scaling again. It then works near to perfect! (When I started using Turbonator it was defaulted to false and hence I got a fuelmilage displayed which was way too goog to be true! Now it shows me a slightly higher consumtion then I really have which for me is great because I now feel that I can rely on the traveller without having bad surprises)

The misses you are referring to I had as well (at rd. 50-60Mph) but they disappeared.

The CheckEngine Feature for Knock you have to activate! IT works great!! I used DCAL for doing this (CalCustomOptionConfigFlags)

PS: Watch your BOOST. Having the T2 Wastegatecontrol it just does not work well with Turbonator (Which Rob Points out!!).
I see you are using the G Valve - I didn't and you have seen my turbo.....

[ShelGame]

Car spec

89 TII Daytona Shelby originally 2.2L now running a 2.5L long block, 2 piece intake manifold, slightly ported stock exhaust manifold, 86lbs injectors, TII Garrett turbo, 2.5 inch swingvalve, 3 inch downpipe with exhaust cut out, A555, 782 grooved head...etc

Change these before I complied the ASM file.

MTX == 1

SSIPRD_ScatterInhibitBelowThisSpeed = MTX value of 0x0033

SSTEMP_TempAboveWhichSparkScatterIsActive = MTX value (0x58)

Used the MoparChem to adjust for the 2.5L and 83 injectors. Didn't change anything else much. Using G-valve and set to 10psi

You shouldn't have to use CheM to change it to 2.5L. You can build it as a 2.5L (shoudl be the default, actually).

Fuel is almost perfect, just a little rich. :clap:

The richness might be due to the injector latency. I do not scale the 'FuelBatteryOffset' (latency) table by default because the latency does not scale. But, for the 83lb injectors, it is probably much smaller than for the 'stock' Chrysler injectors. Maybe try scaling the 'FuelbatteryOffset' table by hand to %50 or so and see if that helps. Really, the best thing to do is measure the actual latency for those injectors, but that's actually pretty difficult to do.

Is it default that the knock trigger the CEL to on? Because I didn't see CEL flash at all.

No, it is not on by default. You have to turn on that option. You can turn it on most easily using D-Cal. Look for the cal options constant near the top of the list, and check the box for 'FlashCE'.

The cal totally messed up the 12 button navigator gas mileage scale, it's 2 to 2 1/2 time it should be.

I thought I had set this one up to be scaled with injectors, but maybe I missed it. I'll look into it for v13.

[tryingbe]

Oh, I could never get the idle below 1400 rpm.


PS: Watch your BOOST. Having the T2 Wastegatecontrol it just does not work well with Turbonator (Which Rob Points out!!).
I see you are using the G Valve - I didn't and you have seen my turbo.....

Oh yes. Still need higher quality pictures...

[risen]

Oh, I could never get the idle below 1400 rpm.



Did you try that debug switch mentioned up above in the thread? Not sure that it matters, but maybe give it a shot.

[tryingbe]

Yes, I did.

The idle went down after 40 miles of driving. But new problems.

There is a fuel cut at over 15psi, I'm using 3 bar map.
The miss at curing speed won't go away.
Every time I restart the car hot, the car will run about half a second then dies. It'll restart immediately just fine.
If the restart is 15 minutes or later, car will run horrible for about 5-10 seconds and then will starts to idle fine.


I think I'm going back to ladybug, better to idle a little bit rich then try to short thru the codes and fix the above problems. It didn't work out for me.

[ShelGame]

Yes, I did.

The idle went down after 40 miles of driving. But new problems.

There is a fuel cut at over 15psi, I'm using 3 bar map.
The miss at curing speed won't go away.
Every time I restart the car hot, the car will run about half a second then dies. It'll restart immediately just fine.
If the restart is 15 minutes or later, car will run horrible for about 5-10 seconds and then will starts to idle fine.


I think I'm going back to ladybug, better to idle a little bit rich then try to short thru the codes and fix the above problems. It didn't work out for me.

All of the constants are stock. So, if you didn't raise overboost, it's still set to stock (~14psi).

83lb injectors are HUGE!!! I imagine the latency needs to be adjusted for them - at the minimum. Are they rated 83lbs at 55psi or 43psi fuel pressure? What fuel pressure are you running?

[lametec]

I had the same miss during cruise too, so I doubt that's related to your injectors. I use +40's on '89 electronics. 2.2 TII.

I think the miss was only present when I used a precompiled binary of Turbonator v12. I had previously compiled from the source, and it didn't have the miss.

[tryingbe]

All of the constants are stock. So, if you didn't raise overboost, it's still set to stock (~14psi).

83lb injectors are HUGE!!! I imagine the latency needs to be adjusted for them - at the minimum. Are they rated 83lbs at 55psi or 43psi fuel pressure? What fuel pressure are you running?

Yes, 83lbs injectors are huge, I say 83lbs for, but they're acutally 86lbs.
http://www.racetronix.com/17113742FM.html
I'm using stock 4 bar fuel pressure regulator.

I don't have any issue with these injectors with ladybug 60 cal at startup nor any missing at cruise. You have my V1.9 calibration so you can look at that.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26048

[ShelGame]

Yes, 83lbs injectors are huge, I say 83lbs for, but they're acutally 86lbs.
http://www.racetronix.com/17113742FM.html
I'm using stock 4 bar fuel pressure regulator.

I don't have any issue with these injectors with ladybug 60 cal at startup nor any missing at cruise. You have my V1.9 calibration so you can look at that.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26048

OK, so at 55psi fuel pressure (4-bar) they probably do flow about 83lbs.

I've looked at it, and other than the fuelling being originally for a 2.2 and then scaled, I don't see anything glaring. I guess it works for you OK, but I would've started with the 2.5 stock tables and then scaled for injectors, etc. Otherwise it's too hard to figure out where any issues are coming from in the cal.

Here's another question - I didn't look yet - did you change the auto cal constants (these control the O2 feed back at part throttle) to the 2.5 values? They would also probably need to be changed for the big injectors...

[tryingbe]

Here's another question - I didn't look yet - did you change the auto cal constants (these control the O2 feed back at part throttle) to the 2.5 values? They would also probably need to be changed for the big injectors...

No, didn't change the auto cal, but I don't think that's the matter because I'm getting knocks CE at WOT, not part throttle?

[ShelGame]

Where in the RPM range? I just noticed you're also using the 2.2 knock threshold - it's different from the 2.5 and more sensitive in the lower RPM area and very high RPM area. But, it's also less sensitive in the mid-to-upper RPM. So, it depends on where you're getting knock, I guess - but that could be it.

[tryingbe]

Where in the RPM range? I just noticed you're also using the 2.2 knock threshold - it's different from the 2.5 and more sensitive in the lower RPM area and very high RPM area. But, it's also less sensitive in the mid-to-upper RPM. So, it depends on where you're getting knock, I guess - but that could be it.

I'm getting CE light on knocks when RPM is over 3000RPM while over 10 psi at WOT.

No CE light on part throttle over 3000rpm and over 10psi.

[ShelGame]

I'm getting CE light on knocks when RPM is over 3000RPM while over 10 psi at WOT.

No CE light on part throttle over 3000rpm and over 10psi.

How do you get 10psi boost at part throttle?

It's odd that you'd get knock at WOT, but not P/T especially since there's more fuel and slightly less spark at WOT...

[Stratman]

I'm getting CE light on knocks when RPM is over 3000RPM while over 10 psi at WOT.

No CE light on part throttle over 3000rpm and over 10psi.

Does it not help if you lower the timing in the Full throtle timing map?? I'm having very bad efficiency issues with my newly bought Daytona which I believe is the cause of having to run the timing so low on pump gas. What is your target boost level? Turbo?

[tryingbe]

How do you get 10psi boost at part throttle?

It's odd that you'd get knock at WOT, but not P/T especially since there's more fuel and slightly less spark at WOT...

G-valve is at 13psi...

I don't want to clogged up this thread with my problems.

You can see my car's spec here
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26048

[Stratman]

Hey Rob,
I was playing around with the the anti-lag code on my 89 Daytona 2 months ago in the parking space at work (never lauched it, just played with it), but since the ecu would not hold stoich very well on the 2.2 I put my previous code back in until I had time to mess with it. Today was the day....I've got the stage limiter set to 3900, builds 10 psi boost, and gets violent as helll when I let off the clutch! It works really well on the car!
O2 swing is slow with this this code on the 2.2. I need to go through the constants to see what I need to change to correct this.
I'm not sure if the V12 code fixes the following issue, but here's what I've experienced with the V11 code I threw back in today. I have the stage limiter set to activate with the Cruise Resume (Momentary). After using it once it doesn't seem to work again until I kill the engine and start it up again. Any knowledge on this?
Thanks for the fun..:thumb:

[MopàrBCN]

@Rob, another question to Turbonator SMEC. You have a variable "ConstantSparkAdvanceWhenSettingMinThrottleOpening" and it is set to 6º meanwhile in Ladybug that would be set to 12º. I am just trying to understand what the effect of this would be and why it is half the advance in your cal as compared to LB.

PS: Googling it I saw that you did comment on this on Page 2 but can't find this post....

[ShelGame]

@Rob, another question to Turbonator SMEC. You have a variable "ConstantSparkAdvanceWhenSettingMinThrottleOpening" and it is set to 6º meanwhile in Ladybug that would be set to 12º. I am just trying to understand what the effect of this would be and why it is half the advance in your cal as compared to LB.

PS: Googling it I saw that you did comment on this on Page 2 but can't find this post....

Not sure - that's the stock setting. Mabe I've labelled that one wrong? - I'll look into it.

EDIT: One of use just has the scale set wrong. The raw hex value is the same between LB and T-SMEC (0x0c).

[ShelGame]

PS: Watch your BOOST. Having the T2 Wastegatecontrol it just does not work well with Turbonator (Which Rob Points out!!).
I see you are using the G Valve - I didn't and you have seen my turbo.....

OK, I've been looking at the T3 (Lotus) boost control trying to get a better understanding in general of all the different types that Chrysler used. I think the T1 boost control routine can be use to control the T2 style WG - with one change: The solenoid needs to be plumbed normally closed instead of normally open. And, the WG DC tables will still need some tuning. I did write a routine to use the T2 style WG with a normally closed WG solenoid, but I'm not sure it's necessary.

[shmiggz]

Could I use this cal and adjust it to +20 injectors? Also, I am running a stock garret turbo off of a t2 engine, what would I have to adjust to account for this? I have a 89 daytona that currently has a 2.5l 5spd running on 2.2 electronics. Thanks.

[ShelGame]

Sure. USe CheM2 to adjust for the injectors automatically.

Not much would need to be changed for the Garret, really. Probably just some tuning of the 2 wastegate duty cycle tables.

[shmiggz]

ok cool, is it okay to use a grainger valve with this cal?

[ShelGame]

ok cool, is it okay to use a grainger valve with this cal?

Of course... :thumb:

[TopDollar69]

Rob,

Can you explain running this batch file to set the mtx bit. I guess I still have alot to learn about this stuff. I do know what a batch file is, but I dont have any clue where to find it. Also, what program are you using for your assemblies, chem? I can't seem to get this function to do anything in chem, and I dont have any idea what it does. Any info will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Ben Huebner

[ShelGame]

Rob,

Can you explain running this batch file to set the mtx bit. I guess I still have alot to learn about this stuff. I do know what a batch file is, but I dont have any clue where to find it. Also, what program are you using for your assemblies, chem? I can't seem to get this function to do anything in chem, and I dont have any idea what it does. Any info will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Ben Huebner

What do you mean? The MTX flag in the cal, or the MTX switch in the assembler?

The MTX switch in the assembler sets ALL of the constants/tables/rtc. to the MTX value. Simply setting it in the cal only tells a couple of functions to do something a little differently due to the trans type. If you want a full MTX setup, you'll want to assemble it that way.

To do that, you'll need to open the .asm file in a text editor and scroll down to where the trans switches are (near the top) and set the MTX == 0 to MTX == 1 (and ATX == 1 needs to go to ATX == 0).

Then, you'll need the SMEC specific assembler that Geoff created (should come with CHeM2, I think). Copy it into the same folder as your source, and then run the batch file. You'll get a bunch of Turbonator_SMEC_V13.xxx files. These are your files with the build switches you setup.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Rob any updates on the smec stuff you just got from Jason? :)

[ShelGame]

Haven't really had a chance to go over it yet. I need to figure out the pricing, and see how many I can order/build...

[1966 dart wagon]

Where in the RPM range? I just noticed you're also using the 2.2 knock threshold - it's different from the 2.5 and more sensitive in the lower RPM area and very high RPM area. But, it's also less sensitive in the mid-to-upper RPM. So, it depends on where you're getting knock, I guess - but that could be it.

by this statement, do you mean if you had a 2.2 car and installed a 2.5, yet using the 2.2 knock sensor it would be different? or that the computer is calibrated to detect different amounts of knock as be more severe in one engine verses the other. Im trying to track down some knock im getting for a 2.5 mtx cel mod cal and trying to see why it comes on only once and a while and how bad it is, i do not have a scanner though so its hard to know how bad it actually is

[ShelGame]

by this statement, do you mean if you had a 2.2 car and installed a 2.5, yet using the 2.2 knock sensor it would be different? or that the computer is calibrated to detect different amounts of knock as be more severe in one engine verses the other. Im trying to track down some knock im getting for a 2.5 mtx cel mod cal and trying to see why it comes on only once and a while and how bad it is, i do not have a scanner though so its hard to know how bad it actually is


Same sensor. The sensor is really just a piezo micrphone. It output a voltage relative the the amount of sound it measures. The computer is calibrated as to what voltage output from the sensor is read as actual knock. The 2.2 and 2.5 are different.

[1966 dart wagon]

Same sensor. The sensor is really just a piezo micrphone. It output a voltage relative the the amount of sound it measures. The computer is calibrated as to what voltage output from the sensor is read as actual knock. The 2.2 and 2.5 are different.

thanks for clearing that up, i really liked that MoparBCN was nice enough to do a great review and help you with out with the fine tuning:thumb: still want to install this into my car, just waiting for all the bugs to get fixed, since im pretty new and not quite sure on adjusting the graphs in dcal and such.

Thanks:clap:

[MopàrBCN]

Talking about reviewing, I have to recap on the Boostcontrol issue!

As some of you might know from other threads, I had blown my turbo quite badly.
There was a moment I was considering that part of this problem was me using Turbonator.

I WAS WRONG ON THIS ASSUMPTION!

After every thing was taken apart it turned out that one of the principal reasons for it to blow was a jamming Wastegate Puck inside the Swingvalve.

With this, any type of Boostcontrol just could not have worked!!! Not even a G-Valve.

Basically the jamming occured or when wide open or when closed. It needed Exceptional Force to then move in either direction. This explaines why at times I just had no boost or it went all the way up to 20psi. It rarely overboosted because I had Overboost set to 21PSI and usually 18-20 psi were sufficient to eventually open the puck.

There was a chain of other reasons for the turbo to blow eventually all to do with failures in the hardware around the turbo.

I need to stress this now.

I even think, besides Rob claims it can't work (which is wise, everybody should do this at his own risk!!!!), that it would have worked well otherwise.
I say this because there were moments where it stayed perfectly within it's bounds in both boost modes (high and low).

All I did was aligning the FullThrottleWastegateDutyCycle_C8is100Percent_From Map Graph to match with the corresponding T2 Graph in Ladybug60 (they are inverse).

I will retest everything when my rebuilt is ready which might be this week!

[ShelGame]

Talking about reviewing, I have to recap on the Boostcontrol issue!

As some of you might know from other threads, I had blown my turbo quite badly.
There was a moment I was considering that part of this problem was me using Turbonator.

I WAS WRONG ON THIS ASSUMPTION!

After every thing was taken apart it turned out that one of the principal reasons for it to blow was a jamming Wastegate Puck inside the Swingvalve.

With this, any type of Boostcontrol just could not have worked!!! Not even a G-Valve.

Basically the jamming occured or when wide open or when closed. It needed Exceptional Force to then move in either direction. This explaines why at times I just had no boost or it went all the way up to 20psi. It rarely overboosted because I had Overboost set to 21PSI and usually 18-20 psi were sufficient to eventually open the puck.

There was a chain of other reasons for the turbo to blow eventually all to do with failures in the hardware around the turbo.

I need to stress this now.

I even think, besides Rob claims it can't work (which is wise, everybody should do this at his own risk!!!!), that it would have worked well otherwise.
I say this because there were moments where it stayed perfectly within it's bounds in both boost modes (high and low).

All I did was aligning the FullThrottleWastegateDutyCycle_C8is100Percent_From Map Graph to match with the corresponding T2 Graph in Ladybug60 (they are inverse).

I will retest everything when my rebuilt is ready which might be this week!


Actually, I've looked at the different types of boost control now. I think it will work as-is - BUT - It needs to be plumbed like the T3 system, instead of the T2. They are similar, but the T3 is a normally open type system. That is, the WG can sees manifold pressure when the solenoid is not powered. The solenoid is then set to 100% duty cycle most of the time by the software. It works exactly the same as the T2, but it is still a fail-safe system in that you still have WG can boost control if/when the solenoid fails. You will want to copy the WG tables from the T3 instead of the T1 or T2. And, I'm sure they will need some tuning.

The reason you can't simply copy the T2 tables is becasue the adaptives will be working the opposite direction. It might work, but on long pulls you will find your boost falling off rather than holding steady (I suspect).

I wrote a new boost control routine so that regular T2 style boost control can be used. It will be in the next release of T-SMEC. I also wrote a routine similar to the T3 boost control that I have tried. My results were mixed. When plumbed like the T1 system, it works excellent. But, when plumbed like the T3, the boost is slow to rise. I don't understand this, actually. I think it must be plumbing related since the WG Duty cycle is set to 100% (in this case, the WG can should see no MAP signal). Anyway, it needs more work, and the T2 needs to be tested. Once I get at least the T2 system working, I will post v13.

[MopàrBCN]

Hi, now that you are at it, I have another quick one for you:

I as well as some more users have had the knock issue up from 10 PSI around 3500 RPM after all in part throttle. Now, I have partly solved this issue in retarding the timing advance each 2º more at at 14PSI (AdvanceWarmFullThrottle_FromMap) and at 10PSI (AdvanceWarmPartThrottle_FromMap). This did entirely solve my full throttle issue, but looking at my logs I still saw some knock (though less!) at part throttle. And always up from the mentioned range.

This happened to me as well with Ladybug60!

Today I was looking at those cals again, and I saw this table:

EnrichAdjust_FromMap

And looking at this I noticed, that this raises strong up from -5 PSI to be at its max at around 3PSI where it stays until 10(!) PSI and drops sharply again!!

since the discription says: "Part Throttle Enrichment - Multiplier from MAP. Note: zero is 1.00", I guess that this is applied at part throttle because the timing is much more agressive in this range.

Could here be the problem that it drops at 10PSI ??? - and hence causing the knocking troubles many of us have. It is 1:1 the same in Ladybug60.

THANKS!

[1966 dart wagon]

Hey guys i just installed this cal in my car and it is running horribly rich i'll review how i have it set up, first off 89 daytona 2.5 TII setup, now running 52lbs injectors and a 3bar. I first started by downloading the asm version(front page) of your cal rob, then i opened the 'text file' and sat the settings for manual trans 2.5, as discussed before, and saved it then opened the .bat file and new files appeard(does everything sound correct here???) then i opened the .bin file though dcal and clicked cal data, used to scale injectors right??? input 52ph, and max boost psi of 20, map type : 3bar. Then hit ok, then clicked the proper boxes for what i wanted, 2 step, antilag, ac enabled, enabled charge temp sensor though configurations flags table. Now i installed it in my car, which i had set to 60(w/o line disconnected from afpr) turned it down to stock 55psi and still was increadably rich, burned my eyes adjusting it. Thoughts on this, i am running a delphi map sensor, shouldnt matter delco/delphi right? i had the injectors cleaned, but the schools machine couldnt flow test them at 52pph, to high i was told, outflowed the machine :eyebrows: Anyways my zeitronix is reading 10:1 afr at idle :confused: any thoughts here,i tried to coever everything i did for a review, any thoughts guys, should i turn the fp down more, i would hate to lean it out???

Thanks, and great cal and reviews guys :thumb:

[MopàrBCN]

Hi, did you adjust your fuel tables after scaling for injectors? I noted that especially the No Throttle Table is scaled quite rich when scaled by injectors. (At this point have an eye on the part throttle and full throttle tables as well...)

[ShelGame]

Hey guys i just installed this cal in my car and it is running horribly rich i'll review how i have it set up, first off 89 daytona 2.5 TII setup, now running 52lbs injectors and a 3bar. I first started by downloading the asm version(front page) of your cal rob, then i opened the 'text file' and sat the settings for manual trans 2.5, as discussed before, and saved it then opened the .bat file and new files appeard(does everything sound correct here???) then i opened the .bin file though dcal and clicked cal data, used to scale injectors right???

Nope, in D-Cal, that is for information purposes only. D-Cal doesn't automatically scale for injectors. You'd have to do it all manually. If you open it in CHeM2, there is a function to scale for injectors. FWIW, for v13 I've added the injectro scale function to the batch file (so it will scale for injectors when you assemble it).

input 52ph, and max boost psi of 20, map type : 3bar. Then hit ok, then clicked the proper boxes for what i wanted, 2 step, antilag, ac enabled, enabled charge temp sensor though configurations flags table. Now i installed it in my car, which i had set to 60(w/o line disconnected from afpr) turned it down to stock 55psi and still was increadably rich, burned my eyes adjusting it. Thoughts on this, i am running a delphi map sensor, shouldnt matter delco/delphi right? i had the injectors cleaned, but the schools machine couldnt flow test them at 52pph, to high i was told, outflowed the machine :eyebrows: Anyways my zeitronix is reading 10:1 afr at idle :confused: any thoughts here,i tried to coever everything i did for a review, any thoughts guys, should i turn the fp down more, i would hate to lean it out???

Thanks, and great cal and reviews guys :thumb:

Yeah, it's rich beacuse all of the fuel tables are still set for stock injectors. Load it up in CHeM2 and run the scale for injectors function; it should clean right up.

[1966 dart wagon]

thanks rob, but for some reason i cant use chem 2. When i open it, and go file, open, nothing happens, and if i go into fueling input engine, rpms, injectors,map sensor, hit scale nothing happens. it just leave me at the main window, and i get NO error message:confused: I opened chem 1.9 and i cannot load the same file that was created from the .bat file in the asm folder from my orginal download, so do i just open the .bin folder load the turbonator with mtx scale it
then i hit ok, but if i bring the fueling menu back up its still set for a 2.2, 42pph, 3bar, even if i save it right after, so do i just look at the table it produces and 'eye ball' that into dcal/chem fuel table. BTW which table lists Full thorttle, part and idle,(fuelpartthrottle, fuelfullthrottle)is fuelbaseline from map idle?. I saw moparbcn had a way to convert the table for my traveler so its still accurate under fuelmonitorconversionfactor, im going to have to change it to what he did.
Anyways im not sure why i cant use chem2, and this is on 2 computers so its not just the one. Thoughts?

[MopàrBCN]

Hi, maybe you are trying to open the .bin file in Chem2?

The way I go on about this is:

1. Download the base cal from what I want to work (let's say Turbonator SMEC v12)
2. In this .zip you find the .asm etc and if I remember it right you find as well precompiled .bin,.tbl,.inj files. DELETE THOSE and stick to the .asm and .bat files. As well as that you need the 2 .exe files.
3. Now open the .asm file in notepad or whatever is your favourit Editor.
4. Here you need now to change your basic characteristics as in displacement, 2/3 Bar Map.
5. Now execute your .bat file and the result is a bin + table etc. files.
6. One of those Files is a .calx File. THIS IS WHAT IS USED IN CHEM

You are ready to enjoy.

Now, Use Chem2 for all tricky stuff and to set Flags and Config options use DCAL. Changes in DCAL will be reflected in .calx as well as changes in .calx are reflected in the .bin file.

[1966 dart wagon]

Hi, maybe you are trying to open the .bin file in Chem2?

The way I go on about this is:

1. Download the base cal from what I want to work (let's say Turbonator SMEC v12)
2. In this .zip you find the .asm etc and if I remember it right you find as well precompiled .bin,.tbl,.inj files. DELETE THOSE and stick to the .asm and .bat files. As well as that you need the 2 .exe files.
3. Now open the .asm file in notepad or whatever is your favourit Editor.
4. Here you need now to change your basic characteristics as in displacement, 2/3 Bar Map.
5. Now execute your .bat file and the result is a bin + table etc. files.
6. One of those Files is a .calx File. THIS IS WHAT IS USED IN CHEM

You are ready to enjoy.

Now, Use Chem2 for all tricky stuff and to set Flags and Config options use DCAL. Changes in DCAL will be reflected in .calx as well as changes in .calx are reflected in the .bin file.

Thanks :thumb: im at work now so now i have to wait :( then happy boosting:eyebrows:

now im home just to add, and i was wondering under the basic .asm notepad that i modify the cal can i change injectors in that???

; ************************************************** *********************
; FUEL INJECTORS
; ************************************************** *********************
;
; Control fuel injector scaling, performed by a post-link program, this way.
;
.if Map2Bar
.inj current 33.0
.inj new 33.0
.endif

.if Map3Bar
.inj current 33.0
.inj new 33.0 can i change this to 52.00? to scale the cal?
.endif
or do i open the .inj file that is created after i execute the .bin file and then change the new to 52.0? since for some reason neither version of chem will work for me :(

[risen]

Thanks :thumb: im at work now so now i have to wait :( then happy boosting:eyebrows:

now im home just to add, and i was wondering under the basic .asm notepad that i modify the cal can i change injectors in that???


or do i open the .inj file that is created after i execute the .bin file and then change the new to 52.0? since for some reason neither version of chem will work for me :(

Neither is going to scale your injectors. Just set the map bar settings in the .asm file (and possibly the transmission one too). Then run the batch file to create a .bin. After that open up chem2, and go to the open menu item. Find the directory where you just ran the bat and edited the asm and open the .calx file in that same directory. Now, on the file menu there will be a selection to scale for injectors. Select that menu item, and you'll be presented with a dialog as to what your injectors are. Select the proper injectors and hit scale. Your cal is now scaled for your injectors. Save the cal from the file menu and you're done.


Edit:
I just read the last sentence. I don't think the programs to scale the injectors based upon the .inj file are readily available anymore. I'm sure someone here can scale your cal for your injectors and send it back to you. I can do it if you'd like.

[1966 dart wagon]

Ok finally figuered out, chem2 was not working cause im running windows 98 on both computers i was trying this on. I tried it on my xp machine and it worked great, i really like the layout of chem2 having the drop down list and can put the tables in groups. So problem solved, I now have this cal running but since my car has from what i can tell as dealer/aftermarket ac which is ditched now(its a cs model no factory ac) Topdollar69 aka Ben was saying perhaps the plug to the ac clutch is not in the 'circut' making it so the ac switch isnt working properly enabling antilag and 2step. bummer but besides that the cal works great, still rich though the rpm range though in the mid to high 10s, should i just adjust fp for this which is already at 45psi, but my idle is dead on 14.7.

The cal works great rob,:thumb: i really like that i can scale it for all different fuels, does this change timing and such if i decided to go for e85?

[ShelGame]

Ok finally figuered out, chem2 was not working cause im running windows 98 on both computers i was trying this on. I tried it on my xp machine and it worked great, i really like the layout of chem2 having the drop down list and can put the tables in groups. So problem solved, I now have this cal running but since my car has from what i can tell as dealer/aftermarket ac which is ditched now(its a cs model no factory ac) Topdollar69 aka Ben was saying perhaps the plug to the ac clutch is not in the 'circut' making it so the ac switch isnt working properly enabling antilag and 2step. bummer but besides that the cal works great, still rich though the rpm range though in the mid to high 10s, should i just adjust fp for this which is already at 45psi, but my idle is dead on 14.7.

The cal works great rob,:thumb: i really like that i can scale it for all different fuels, does this change timing and such if i decided to go for e85?

Yeah, the 'A/C switch' in the cals is actually the A/C Clutch input to the SMEC. It's not directly connected to the A/C switch on the dash. If you're removed the A/C comp, then you won't get a clutch input even when the switch is turned on.

The 'scale for injectors' function doesn't do anythign to the timing. So, if you go E85, you'll have to tune the tming yourself.

[lametec]

If you twist the two wires to the low pressure switch of the A/C system together you'll get the A/C switch functionality back.

[1966 dart wagon]

If you twist the two wires to the low pressure switch of the A/C system together you'll get the A/C switch functionality back.

i looked up the wiring diagram for my car and i cannot find the wires to do this? Does anyone have a picture of the plug, or can tell me where the plug is located

[risen]

i looked up the wiring diagram for my car and i cannot find the wires