I need some help with this. More cooling problems

[3Bar_Mopar]

It's not that this really matters since the head will be replaced very soon, but this car has nothing but cooling problems since I first got it.

When I first got the car, the guy who sold it to me thought it had a blown headgasket and said that one day coolant started coming out and the temp gauge went to hot and he shut it off....that was the last he drove it.

When I went to get the car I filled the coolant and wathed for leaks. I saw none, so I drove it home. The temp stayed cold and nothing went wrong at all....until I pulled into my driveway and I noticed steam under the hood. I popped the hood and saw a small leak in the radiator.

I replaced the radiator, water pump, thermostat and fan. I still experienced some fluctuation and running warm witht he temp gauge, so I changed the headgasket.

Everything was fine until I started having to take the interstate to work every day. Then the temp would get hotter the faster I drove...and dropped to normal when I slowed down.

Shortly after I had a rusty freeze plug leak and I replaced that. The other freeze plug on the back of the block was a rubber temp plug and it was leaky, so I replaced that one too.

About a month later the freeze plug on the front of the block under the waterbox popped out and leaked coolant everywhere....this was in the midle of summer....I replaced that one too.

A little while later I had a leak with the heater control valve and then with a dented pipe on the heater core.
I blocked off the coolant to the heater core for the rest of the summer.

The car ran great afterwards, but still had wildly fluctuating temp gauge. The temp would always eventually settle and not move.
Also, the car would start very hard and run on one or two cylinders for the first few minutes before evening out and running normal. I usually had to keep the gas peddle pressed a little to keep it running until all cylnders started to fire.
One day I replaced the plugs and tha car started like normal again and ran fine.

The car sat for a few months because of no insurance and expired plates, plus I was driving my Mini.
I recently moved and needed to get my car back running. I drove it over 2 hours in the snow (with no heat) to my new place and had no issues other than fluctuating temp gauge.

My thermostat recently started sticking and would remain at "hot" longer than usual and then the temp would plummet to cold. I replaced the thermostat and that solved that problem.

I also had a mysterious oil smoking issue a couple days when it got pretty cold out. Taking my girlfriend to work, on the way home the car started billowing white smoke like crazy. I thought it was the headgasket until I smelled the smoke, which smelled like oil and burnt rubber. It happened that time and one other time, but the smoking went away while I was driving the last time it happened, and hasn't happened since. I think maybe the PCV valve froze up or something.

Now I hooked the heat back up and have had no real issues until I drove it back to my moms this weekend. The temp stayed hot...not maxed hot, but just under the last mark before the "H", and fluctuated between less hot and hot. I also noticed gurgling noise when I'd shut off the car.

I pulled off and popped the cap, which made coolant fill the overflow almost to the top. I ran the car and added some water until the level stabilized in the radiator. The temp remained rock solid one mark above "cold" on the gauge the rest of the way back to moms, and no gurgling when I shut it off.

Now I'm at moms now and the car is starting hard again and running on one or two cylinders again until it evens out.
The temp had been gradually getting warmer and now it's staying pretty warm again with the gurgling at shut-down.

I'm wondering if the issue is with the head or the heater core.
The heater core is not leaking that I can tell from the engine compartment, but the issues seemed to start back up when I reconnected the core.

I'm baffled with the hard starting thing and I don't know if the plugs are fouling, crappy quality, or the head is warped or cracked enough to let coolant into the cylinders.:confused:

I have a good head with Enforcer Garret turbo waiting to go into this car, but I'm waiting for my parts to get here first.

I just want to know what everyone thinks could be the problem with this thing....it's very frustrating and I absolutely HATE cooling system problems more than anything!!:mad:

The car is a '90 Daytona 2.5 T1 automatic.

[butchsuppe]

I,d start by doing a block test , a simple procedure, if you don,t have the tool have it done by a rad. shop. Also it,s possible you got the wrong year waterpump as they reversed the rotation between 88+89 I beleive, not sure of the years but I do know the 90 pump is opposite of the 87. Also check the actual coolant temp with a thermother, maybe it,s just the gauge freaking out. Look into rad, bobbles usaully mean ex. gases in cooling sys. or fluxuating level indicates a restriction or bad waterpump. Also make sure your belt is tight, try running the car with no thermostat and observe the coolant level. I hope this could be of some help.

[turbovanman²]

I bet the block is badly crudded up, that will make the temp guage fluctuate. Also, if the heater core is plugged-which your sounds like and due to all the rotted parts, wouldn't doubt it, its a bypass and helps cool the system. If its plugged, the water doesn't flow properly and the temp guage jumps around. I also bet you have a bad sender. If the engine is hot and you take off the rad cap, hot coolant will flow out into the resovoir until it cools looking like you have a pressure problem-which you don't.
Your hard start or missing at first could be bad/leaking injectors.

If you had in internal coolant leak, you would have white smoke all the time, you would be losing coolant, your oil could be brown, you coolant could have oil, you would be washing your spark plugs clean. Head gaskets can leak and reseal for a few days and even weeks but not for months at a time.

[ScottD]

Did you replace the radiator cap?

Do you have the deflector on the car that mounts under the radiator support? This creates a vacuum behind the radiator which helps pull air through it. Lots of Daytonas have this missing and when it is not there it causes the car to run hot, especially on the highway.

Did you re-torque the head after changing the headgasket? The bolts stretch and re-torquing is very helpful.

Do you have the correct water pump on there? The 89+ common block pumps spin the opposite direction as the the 88 earlier non CB pumps.

The headgasket was bad on my 91 C/S and there was coolant laying on top of the cylinders when I went to change it. It ran much better after changing the headgasket.

Hope this helps.

[3Bar_Mopar]

I bet the block is badly crudded up, that will make the temp guage fluctuate. Also, if the heater core is plugged-which your sounds like and due to all the rotted parts, wouldn't doubt it, its a bypass and helps cool the system. If its plugged, the water doesn't flow properly and the temp guage jumps around. I also bet you have a bad sender. If the engine is hot and you take off the rad cap, hot coolant will flow out into the resovoir until it cools looking like you have a pressure problem-which you don't.
Your hard start or missing at first could be bad/leaking injectors.

If you had in internal coolant leak, you would have white smoke all the time, you would be losing coolant, your oil could be brown, you coolant could have oil, you would be washing your spark plugs clean. Head gaskets can leak and reseal for a few days and even weeks but not for months at a time.


When I have the head off to change heads, I will flush the block out with the hose.

Could the bad leaking injectors be cool for a while, then start leaking again? I kinda have to agree with the leaky injectors though because before, when you start the car for the first time after sitting overnight, the car started fine. But if I drove it around and shut it down, then have to restart the car soon after, I'd get a little chugging and a small miss sometimes. This would usually last a couple minutes and even out. It would also disappear if I put the car into gear.
My open downpipe allows me to hear EVERYTHING with the exhaust.

Now it feels and sounds like it runs on one or two cylinders, barely running until it evens out....this happens the first time I start it after sitting overnight.


Also...I do have the correct waterpump on there (pully rides the backside of the belt) and the belt is tensioned correctly.....I had to change the belt a week ago because it was squeeking in cold weather.

I'm just hoping that the new head and block cleaning will take care of most of these cooling problems. I'm gonna swap my coolant temp sensor from my van and see if that helps.

[3Bar_Mopar]

I just drove it back home from my moms house and it drove fine except that when you're coasting down it sounds like it has a very quiet diesel exhaust brake.....a skip sound, like "tuh tuh tuh tuh tuh tuh".
It used to do that kinda if I let off the gas at a higher RPM in gear and then it would go away when RPMs dropped below 3000.

Now it does it all the way down almost to idle and it will skip like that while in park. Idle is also rougher.

I don't know what the f is going on, but this sucks.

I'm starting to think maybe it's bad gas. When I went to my moms house I got gas at the same place twice and then started having problems.....now that I'm back home, I had to put more gas in and I put in some good Sunoco 93 octane. The skip while idling down has lessened some, but it's still there in park with a rough idle.

[turbovanman²]

What do your plugs look like?

[3Bar_Mopar]

What do your plugs look like?



I don't know yet....I'll pull one or two and see....i'm gonna check the cam timing anyway.

[3Bar_Mopar]

I pulled the plugs and saw nothing out of the ordinary with them. They kinda had a reddish hue...

The electrodes had nice sharp corners and there was no salt and pepper on the porcelain.

The cam timing was a little off and I reset it back to stock. The car ran a little rough last night and started kinda hard this morning, but the symptoms seem to be getting a lot better.

[ScottD]

What about base timing? Did you unplug the coolant temperature sensor and put a timing light on it?

[3Bar_Mopar]

What about base timing? Did you unplug the coolant temperature sensor and put a timing light on it?


I unplugged the CTS but I don't have a timing light.....I kinda timed it by ear and the A/F still reads almost full rich under heavy throttle, but the car feels like it lost 100 pounds.

[ScottD]

Hard starts can typically be a timing issue. Get a timing light on that sucka!