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Clay
02-26-2008, 11:07 AM
Ok, over the last few days Ive had the pleasure?? (displeasure!) of swapping out chips in my LM with my large self crammed into the passenger side foot well. Ive dropped 2 chips into the LM case, and spent about 10 minutes each time trying to fish them out. Ive put the chip in off one set of pins, and someone put is in with one row not even in the slots. Needless to say I want to do something different!

I remember Warren (I believe) made a remote mounted ZIF socket for his setup, so basically Im wondering if anyone can give me some ideas on how this is done? I gotta do something to make these chip swaps easier!

thanks!
Clay

JDAWG
02-26-2008, 11:28 AM
I was thinking of this too, solder wires on the board then to the socket and mount it in the golve box or under dash or something, as long as you dont mess the wires up you sould be fine. BTW alot of people cut a hole in the case and so they can pop them in and out easily

JDAWG
02-26-2008, 11:31 AM
I wonder if there is some sort of computer patch cable that would plug into soclet and have some length so you can put a socket elsewhere, I dont know much about the hardware

Clay
02-26-2008, 11:39 AM
Ive got the LM case from an in-car MAP LM, which has the opening right over the LM. It works well, but its still just a pain to get to everything in that tight cramped little space.

As for the hardware, thats what Im interested in the most. I can picture what I need, Im just wondering if someone knows about something that will work well for this application.

JDAWG
02-26-2008, 11:51 AM
how many pins is it?

Clay
02-26-2008, 12:04 PM
28 pins

ShelGame
02-26-2008, 12:05 PM
Look thru Moates.net, they're bound to have something like that...

Clay
02-26-2008, 12:35 PM
Hmmmmm looks like your spot on again Rob!

Check this out:

http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=172

ShelGame
02-26-2008, 12:39 PM
They have everything! That one is cheaper than I expected, too. The cable is on another page, only $10 for 3ft...

Clay
02-26-2008, 12:41 PM
Look like you can add this cable (18"):

http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=50&products_id=64

or this cable (36"):

http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=50&products_id=65

and be rockin in no time!

Clay
02-26-2008, 12:42 PM
They have everything! That one is cheaper than I expected, too. The cable is on another page, only $10 for 3ft...

Yup! thanks Rob for pointing me in the right direction!! And so cheaply!

minigts
02-26-2008, 01:01 PM
Go all out and get the longest cable they have and run it into the vehicle where it will be safe from the weather. :)

Anonymous_User
02-26-2008, 01:21 PM
Go all out and get the longest cable they have and run it into the vehicle where it will be safe from the weather. :)

Most LM's are already IN the vehicle. Safe from the weather, well, that's another story.

csxtra
02-26-2008, 01:23 PM
That setup from Moates looks great, I wish it was available 2 years ago when I originally built mine (based on an idea from Matt Wright). Back then, you had to source all the pieces (ribbon cable, sockets, etc) and solder up the 28 wires yourself. This looks MUCH easier, and the price looks reasonable:thumb:

Just make sure to add the ZIF socket and put it in a case for ease of switching chips and protection for the chip/socket. The glove compartment makes a great location for the remote socket.

I know this idea works great with LM-equipped cars (not as many environmental issues inside the car), has anybody tried it successfully with a SMEC or SBEC?

Another advantage of a remote chip...anti-theft device:D

omni_840
02-26-2008, 01:24 PM
Thats a pretty neat setup! I'm going to have to do that in my GLH

minigts
02-26-2008, 01:46 PM
Most LM's are already IN the vehicle. Safe from the weather, well, that's another story.

When I say IN the vehicle I mean the air controlled environment which is the interior. My logic module is in the engine bay. If I were to relocate the chip outside the SMEC housing, I would want it in the controlled environment or sealed up somehow.

Great idea though, makes it a LOT easier to work with the computer without having to remove the battery each time.

Clay
02-26-2008, 01:58 PM
When I say IN the vehicle I mean the air controlled environment which is the interior. My logic module is in the engine bay.

No, your SMEC is in the engine comparment ;)

My logic module is in the passenger side kick panel, inside the vehicle already, and close to the glove compartment where Im going to mount my chip!!!! :)

Remote mount chip! YAAAAAAAAAY!!

TurboBuggy
02-26-2008, 10:59 PM
just get an ostrich, uploading new cals in a split second while the engine is running FTW. I love mine like no other

chilort
02-26-2008, 11:07 PM
Can't say I'd recommend it. While there are many things a person _can_ do, there are many things that could lead to trouble. Not saying this will lead to trouble, but it could.

You've got to consider this length of wire you are now putting in as an antenna for picking up all kinds of extra noise that could potentially wash out the real signal. The coil and plugs alone are enough to make your head spin (or, at least the head of an unprotected signal). I like the idea of a hole in the case much better that a length of wire. If you do go this route, be sure to get cable with a grounded shield and ground it only on one end (ground it at the box).

I'm so anal, I don't even like to use sockets because of the extra bit of noise they can add into a system. 'course, I'm not messing with these kinds of chips anymore, but ... its kind of like insurance.

MiniMopar
02-26-2008, 11:19 PM
Those extenders have line drivers that should keep the signals clean. The clock rate on the LM is low enough that it should be OK. They probably have diode protection to help with ESD as well. Just make sure not to route the cable parallel to other wiring for extended distance to prevent capacitive coupling. Things like blower motors create a lot of back EMF into the wiring that could be picked up if they are too close for too much distance.

boost geek
02-27-2008, 02:01 AM
Mine's in the glove box, maybe I'll cut a hole in the case, computer slides out with 1 bolt.

Clay
02-27-2008, 08:57 AM
Im just debating on 18" or 36". The less length the better. I measured it up a bit and the 18" will be very close. So close Im going to take some wire and actually mock up the routing to see if 18" will get me where I want. I really hate to have 18" of spare cable bunched up somewhere.

mw6886
02-27-2008, 09:27 AM
Yeah, I made one. It actually goes to my center console. I have pics, but they are not available to me at the moment.

I want to say that the length of my wires is fairly long - it runs under the carpet, up around the LM, behind the center console, etc. I haven't had any problems in the 2 years since installation. Takes the back breaking out of putting a chip in!

As soon as I can get my pics, I will post them.

Clay
02-27-2008, 09:43 AM
<mr. burns>Excellent!</mr. burns>

MiniMopar
02-27-2008, 10:32 AM
Running it along the sheetmetal like will greatly help in the shielding of the signal.

mock_glh
02-27-2008, 12:30 PM
just get an ostrich, uploading new cals in a split second while the engine is running FTW. I love mine like no other

I'll verify that! That plus a wideband datalogger make an awesome tuning combination. :thumb:

Clay
02-27-2008, 01:54 PM
Ive thought about the ostrich, but Im currently at the crawling stage with this whole tuning/calibration thing. the ostrich is more of a jog or full out running stage! ;)

MiniMopar
02-27-2008, 03:05 PM
What I did was about one cal every day or two as I tweaked and tuned and drove the cal to and from work. After a dozen or so iterations, that dropped to once a week or so and now I haven't touched it in at least a year I think. So I wouldn't spend a lot of coin on something that you eventually won't use again unless you have a lot of cars you need to make cals for. ;)

lametec
02-27-2008, 03:31 PM
Im just debating on 18" or 36". The less length the better. I measured it up a bit and the 18" will be very close. So close Im going to take some wire and actually mock up the routing to see if 18" will get me where I want. I really hate to have 18" of spare cable bunched up somewhere.

The ribbon cables are a piece of cake to make shorter. The connector comes apart with two clips, then just adjust the cable to where you want it, push the clip back on and cut the cable with a knife or scissors.

turbovanman²
02-27-2008, 04:13 PM
Awesome post Clay, I was going to PM Warren but this is just as good, I need to do this soon.

mw6886
02-27-2008, 06:57 PM
Hope this explains it better. :)

boost geek
02-27-2008, 11:15 PM
Easy access. 3 bar coming soon.:p

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/boostgeek/100_1939.jpg

Clay
02-28-2008, 12:10 AM
well I ordered what I needed today. Ill take pics once I get it in place.

turbovanman²
02-28-2008, 01:25 AM
Why would you want a "chip booster"

Whats an "ostrich"?

ShelGame
02-28-2008, 08:53 AM
Funny looking bird, sticks it's head in the ground, makes for good steaks... you know, an Ostrich?

JK, it's a rom emulator. It's connected to your PC and also plugged into the EPROM socket on the LM or SMEC. You can make changes to the calibration data (or even code) on the fly, while the engine is running. I think it even can watch parameters.

turbovanman²
02-28-2008, 09:19 PM
Funny looking bird, sticks it's head in the ground, makes for good steaks... you know, an Ostrich?

JK, it's a rom emulator. It's connected to your PC and also plugged into the EPROM socket on the LM or SMEC. You can make changes to the calibration data (or even code) on the fly, while the engine is running. I think it even can watch parameters.

:ban:

Thanks, I guess I need to get one of those also. Its probably been brought up before but wheres a good place to get one?

ShelGame
02-28-2008, 10:06 PM
www.Moates.net - though, I have to warn you, you will want to spend a lot of money over there, they have some cool stuff.... :)

The Ostrich is a good tool if you are going to be doing a lot of tuning - especially for customers or dyno tuning. If you're only going to tune your own car, you can eaily get away with just a flashable SMEC. That's what I use, and I love it. Just build and flash a new cal from the drivers seat. Jason Rishardson builds and seels the flash modules (I think he'll even build a flashable SMEC for like $100). He's even up in your neck of the woods (Seattle maybe?).

turbovanman²
02-28-2008, 10:25 PM
www.Moates.net - though, I have to warn you, you will want to spend a lot of money over there, they have some cool stuff.... :)

The Ostrich is a good tool if you are going to be doing a lot of tuning - especially for customers or dyno tuning. If you're only going to tune your own car, you can eaily get away with just a flashable SMEC. That's what I use, and I love it. Just build and flash a new cal from the drivers seat. Jason Rishardson builds and seels the flash modules (I think he'll even build a flashable SMEC for like $100). He's even up in your neck of the woods (Seattle maybe?).

Well thats basically what I want, change the cal on the fly so to speak, so I don't have to go for a drive, notice some changes, make the changes, burn a new chip, do it again, ;)

Thats Xrattiracer isn't it? I'll call to PM him and get one soon.

boost geek
02-28-2008, 10:52 PM
www.Moates.net - though, I have to warn you, you will want to spend a lot of money over there, they have some cool stuff.... :)

The Ostrich is a good tool if you are going to be doing a lot of tuning - especially for customers or dyno tuning. If you're only going to tune your own car, you can eaily get away with just a flashable SMEC. That's what I use, and I love it. Just build and flash a new cal from the drivers seat. Jason Rishardson builds and seels the flash modules (I think he'll even build a flashable SMEC for like $100). He's even up in your neck of the woods (Seattle maybe?).

Would this be any good for a cheap wideband, just needs a sensor.
http://www.moates.net/zips/ometer_guide.pdf

mw6886
02-29-2008, 10:18 AM
I've got an O-Meter and an LC-1. Works awesome, and the cost is right. Only problem is you cannot log from it, but it does record/playback on the O-Meter.

csxtra
02-29-2008, 11:56 AM
I've got an O-Meter...

Is that anything like an O-Face?:D

badandy
02-29-2008, 01:41 PM
Is that anything like an O-Face?:D

:lol:Warren you kill me!

Clay
03-11-2008, 03:18 PM
well first impressions are Im going to have to get a different socket for this remote mount thing.

First off, the parts I received from Moates are top notch. No complaints there at all!

The problem is I have a ZIF socket in my LM, and the pins on the moates cable are to thick to allow the ZIF socket to close. So I need to get a different socket or maybe the chip adapter piece is suppose to be soldered to the board itself. We shall see.

I have the utmost confidence this will work once I get the right socket in the board.

clay

MiniMopar
03-11-2008, 03:47 PM
What do the pins on the socket look like? Are they machined round pins or flat pins?

Clay
03-11-2008, 04:05 PM
machined round pins

MiniMopar
03-11-2008, 04:19 PM
OK, then you could either socket another module with another machine pin socket, or swap out the ZIF for one:

Digikey ED3628-ND or A409-ND

More info:

http://www.knizefamily.net/russ/electronics/auto/moparecu.html

Clay
03-14-2008, 10:34 AM
ok, cool. So I need to use a machine pin socket. So I take it these are a 'press fit' with no lever lock?

Also, on the other side of the extender is another machine pin socket. Will a chip press into these tightly? or do I need to put a zif socket on the other end to accept my chips?

thanks,
clay

MiniMopar
03-14-2008, 10:50 AM
The machine pin sockets are tight. You can probably just press a ZIF socket in and use that.

turbovanman²
02-04-2009, 10:05 PM
Back from the dead, I am going to order the cable and chip extender but which zif socket should I also order?

http://www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=26

moparzrule
02-05-2009, 09:30 PM
I didn't use a ZIF at all with my chip extender, had the chips in and out atleast 30-40 times.

I wouldn't use a ZIF socket because if you hit a large enough bump or whatever the level can pop and and the chip will pop out. Not cool.

MopàrBCN
02-06-2009, 03:18 PM
Simon, you are using SMEC aren't you. So: you got your logic board socketed - here goes your extender cable without anything else. The ZIF Socket, I find, helps a lot on the extender board. SO I have hooked it up there (piggy bag style) and it works the business. Beforehand I did have trouble with the chips whos legs already had suffered a bit. your ZIF would be: http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=44 this one. it's worth every penny on the 10 bucks spent!
I'll put up a foto in a couple of minutes.

MopàrBCN
02-06-2009, 03:22 PM
I didn't use a ZIF at all with my chip extender, had the chips in and out atleast 30-40 times.

I wouldn't use a ZIF socket because if you hit a large enough bump or whatever the level can pop and and the chip will pop out. Not cool.

Hi,

I had that worry as well, because the whole setup becomes a bit bulky. But in my case, the ZIF socket sits rock solid on the extender socket, and the chip on the zif as well.

I don't know if you have driven on spanish country side roads - thats where they invented road bumps :D

I obviously only can speak for myself. but in 6 month no matter what I never ever had an issue. And swapping chips has become part of the fun as well (as opposed to the final nightmare after the tune).....

turbovanman²
02-06-2009, 03:49 PM
Just ordered the extender and cable, Whorse has ZIF sockets, :nod:

moparzrule
02-06-2009, 04:19 PM
MopàrBCN did you use the 18'' or 36'' cable? And where do you have your chip relocated too?

MopàrBCN
02-07-2009, 05:55 AM
Hi, now I am in for the bashing :D . I use the 18" and I have it mounted exactly between smec and battery. I figured that it is there where I have the best compromise. I simply use a modified case for sunglasses as container. There I have put some vent holes and that's it. The battery holds it agaist the smec, there is cool air and even a overfilled coolant container does not cause a problem (been there). Rain, storm, coldnes, humidity - NO PROBLEM!

moparzrule
02-07-2009, 07:58 AM
Cool, same place I have mine. Did you also see that you could slip the ribbon cable through where the 14 pin power module connector comes out of the SMEC?

MopàrBCN
02-07-2009, 12:47 PM
That's the way I did it! As said, you entirely inspired my way of doing it.
And there will be two more cars around here which will go the same way.

For me this is just close to perfect. When I come home, I open the hood, disconect the extender and take it with me, along with what I noted down during a drive. Then I either do another chip or put it on again when I leave home....

I mean, considering this only from the theft protection prospective, I know many folks whith cars and keyed keys for protection who ever so often run into trouble......

BTW: Before doing this snap box thing I had the extender loose in the plastic wrapping it came with and also never had an issue. Right there it is dry. Allways....

moparzrule
02-07-2009, 01:25 PM
:thumb:

turbovanman²
02-07-2009, 02:54 PM
Hi, now I am in for the bashing :D . I use the 18" and I have it mounted exactly between smec and battery. I figured that it is there where I have the best compromise. I simply use a modified case for sunglasses as container. There I have put some vent holes and that's it. The battery holds it agaist the smec, there is cool air and even a overfilled coolant container does not cause a problem (been there). Rain, storm, coldnes, humidity - NO PROBLEM!

Yeah, like it rains in Spain, :confused: ;)

MopàrBCN
02-07-2009, 04:12 PM
http://www.world-weather-travellers-guide.com/weather-in-spain.html

We were hit quite tough this year!!! Even snow was stopping half the country!!! This is why I haven't got any fancy fotos with hot girls on my car this year :D

larryB
02-15-2009, 10:29 PM
Great information guys. This was an easy mod even for the computer illiterate (me). Here's a couple of pictures of my easy access chip. I used a 6" cable the chip extender and a zif socket all from Moates.net

turbovanman²
02-16-2009, 01:31 AM
MOATES rocks, got my chip extender and cable within days. Pretty cool the Emu and extender use the same cable, :hail: :thumb:

moparzrule
02-16-2009, 07:17 AM
Great information guys. This was an easy mod even for the computer illiterate (me). Here's a couple of pictures of my easy access chip. I used a 6" cable the chip extender and a zif socket all from Moates.net

Wow thats pretty cool, but I take it you have a relocated battery? Kinda not as good of an option for somebody that hasn't relocated.
Also, I never saw a 6'' cable on moates site, just the 18'' and 36''...where's the 6?

Edit-Ahh, found it. There's no pic of it thats why I didn't see it listed there.

http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=133

turbovanman²
02-16-2009, 03:02 PM
Wow thats pretty cool, but I take it you have a relocated battery? Kinda not as good of an option for somebody that hasn't relocated.
Also, I never saw a 6'' cable on moates site, just the 18'' and 36''...where's the 6?

Edit-Ahh, found it. There's no pic of it thats why I didn't see it listed there.

http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=133

Order any length and cut it down, the connector for the chip is moveable.