TII turbo on TIII

[iTurbo]

I need to replace the turbocharger on my white Spirit R/T. Is it possible to drill the mounting flange on a Chrysler turbine housing so that it also has a standard T3 flange? Would the downpipe donut still be located at the right spot? I have a good TII turbo with 3" TU swingvalve I'd love to use...

[turbovanman²]

Search my name, I've covered the topic a few times, ;)

[Lotashelbys]

The lines and down-pipe are close enough to work for either you just have to figure out a way to mount it to your manifold:thumb:

[iTurbo]

Cool, I think I will order a T3 flange as a jig.

[turbovanman²]

If you bolt it directly to the manifold, the DP will have to be modified extensively and will be at a weird angle. I used a 1/2 inch plate and lowered the turbo down, stock dp fit with minor mods-

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/65cd4d19.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/CopyofIMAG0084.jpg

[iTurbo]

Hrmm, looks like I'll have to do a mock-up. Here is what I had in mind:

http://www.gpopshop.com/181aweb.jpg

[moparzrule]

Simon he's asking about putting a T2 turbo on a 16V, not a T3 turbo on an 8V.

[turbovanman²]

Simon he's asking about putting a T2 turbo on a 16V, not a T3 turbo on an 8V.

Wow, I gotta lay off the crack, :(

Its the lack of sleep, aprox 5 hours in the last 2 nights, I can't take much more, :(

[moparzrule]

Haha, as long as you just concentrate hard on getting those cams shipped to the the right people/addresses it's OK LOL.

[iTurbo]

If I Simon had a flange angle problem when putting a TIII turbo on an 8v, then I'll probably run into the opposite problem in my case. The car needs a new down pipe anyway, so hopefully a TU 3" down pipe will work with a tweak or another bend.

And the compressor housing, it has that angled outlet unlike a TIII turbo. It would probably have to be reclocked too. Hopefully the stock TIII hoses would still clamp on sufficiently. I'll probably try to leave it clocked as-is and use a TII lower IC hose and custom upper though.

[turbovanman²]

I had to cut apart the dp, then cut it into sections, put it back together with a tight S curve as the outlet went straight into the firewall-this was on a Daytona.

[Turbo3Iroc]

Can't you just swap exhaust housings on the turbo?

[iTurbo]

That would be nice; anyone know? I have a few TIII turbos in need of a rebuild. If there is a lot of shaft play, would the turbine housing probably be trashed or OK?

[moparzrule]

Turbine wheel should be the same. OMG can't believe I didn't think of that one LMAO. Yeah it should bolt right on.

For the compressor angled outlet, not sure how much problem that will be for you but if you can find like a older turbo saab 900 or something in a junkyard with a T3 garrett, they have the same compressor wheel and the housing will bolt right on and has a straight outlet. Just be careful not all the saab's had the garrett T3.

[86Shelby]

Can't you just swap exhaust housings on the turbo?

That's what I was about to suggest. Aside from possible broken bolts, it's easier all the way around.

[turbovanman²]

Can't you just swap exhaust housings on the turbo?

Yes, that would be an option. Compressor housings no due to the slightler bigger compressor wheel.

[iTurbo]

Ok thanks for the info. I removed a TIII turbine housing today. I found that the turbine wheel was busted free of the shaft. The wheel was toast, I can't tell if the housing is damaged enough to not use it. Is there anyway to tell?

[moparzrule]

Can you see metal scraping marks?

[iTurbo]

Not really. There is some residual gunk buildup and the area around the wheel is shiny from contact. The area feels a little uneven, but no obvious scraping.

I also just disassembled the TII turbo and the TIII turbine housing bolts right on no problemo. What is that black 'cup' shaped thing under the turbine wheel. Does that tighten down with the housing assembly?

[turbovanman²]

Not really. There is some residual gunk buildup and the area around the wheel is shiny from contact. The area feels a little uneven, but no obvious scraping.

I also just disassembled the TII turbo and the TIII turbine housing bolts right on no problemo. What is that black 'cup' shaped thing under the turbine wheel. Does that tighten down with the housing assembly?

Thats some sort of shield, and yes, it tightens up when you tighten the housing.

[iTurbo]

OK I have the "hybrid" turbo all put together. This is the first time I've removed turbo housings and reclocked stuff and it was a lot easier than I though. No broken bolts.

I used another TIII turbocharger assembly as a reference and clocked everything as close as I could. The only trouble I've run into:

1. The TII compressor housing discharge is angled outward. After reclocking it, I don't think the will be a problem and I should be able to use TIII hoses.

2. The TII wastegate can/bracket works, but I have to lengthen the arm about 1" so it will reach the flapper. Alternately, you could also use a TIII wastegate can/bracket with a little grinding and no rod adjustment.

3. I'm using the TII oil drain pipe, but you could use the cast TIII oil drain pipe with a little grinding to clear a compressor housing bolt.

4. All the other oil/coolant lines look like they will work fine, but a TII coolant return hose would probably work better due to differences in the compressor housings.

Not sure when I'll install it...need to order some new SS lines first.

[86Shelby]

Thank you. You are giving me a little hope for my engine.

[iTurbo]

No problem Ray, just glad to help other TIII owners keep their cars on the road! I got a big boost of hope for my TIII Lancer project today. The machine shop called and said the shortblock is done.

The nice thing about this turbo swap is that any Garrett TI/TII turbo should work fairly easily as a replacement. Just swap on the TIII turbine housing, reclock the housings, and lengthen the wastegate rod. For a Garrett TI, you'd also need a inlet adapter on the compressor housing.

[turbovanman²]

Good replacment, just a tad less performance, ;)

[86Shelby]

Good replacment, just a tad less performance, ;)

I'll take that in trade for 'not running due to burnt out turbo even though I have a rebuilt unit on the shelf'

[iTurbo]

+1. This is saving me $3-400 on a turbo rebuild, maybe more because my TIII core is in such bad shape. I hope it works, but at this point I really don't see why it wouldn't. I'll get some pics of the TII/TIII turbo compared to an actual TIII turbo soon, but I think I want to get it super clean first.

After looking at it more, it seems to be a toss-up wether or not to use the TII versus TIII wastegate actuator. The TII actuator requires a longer rod; the TIII actuator would just need a couple washers to space out the can enough to clear the compressor housing or slight grinding to provide clearance. The TII wastegate actuator I have is a 'small' can and non-adjustable rod so I'll probably end up using the TIII actuator. TIII oil/coolant lines would be preferred and I only have to swap out the brass elbow fitting on the center section to use the TIII line kit.

[turbovanman²]

I'll take that in trade for 'not running due to burnt out turbo even though I have a rebuilt unit on the shelf'

Didn't say it was a bad thing, ;)

[iTurbo]

Well today I FINALLY got around to getting the TII turbo test fit on the engine in the car. With the turbo on the manifold, I have found some clearance issues..

1. You have to use a TIII wastegate can/bracket. If you try to use the TII unit it will run into the firewall. The holes on the TIII bracket don't quite align with the TII compressor housing holes so they need to be enlarged so it bolts up.

2. I'm using TIII oil/coolant lines from TU. Every line works great except the coolant return. Oddly enough, the TII compressor housing is just slightly LARGER than the TIII compressor housing. This means the coolant line won't thread into the brass elbow without hitting the edge of the compressor housing. First I tried to use a 3/8" male NPT - to - 3/8" female NPT fitting to act as a spacer bushing but it was too much and it also hit the firewall. Then I manage to use a 45' 3/8" male NPT - to - 3/8" female NPT fitting and that worked great.

3. I've checked the intercooler hose fitment again since I thought it might be a problem due to the TII compressor housings angled discharge and it really doesn't seem to be a problem at all. All the hoses still clamp down fine and not anywhere near kinking.

[iTurbo]

Here is what I got...I'm about to throw it on the car. In the pics, the modded TII is on the left, OEM TIII turbo on the right.

http://www.turbosedan.com/spiritrt/DSC03829.JPG

http://www.turbosedan.com/spiritrt/DSC03830.JPG

http://www.turbosedan.com/spiritrt/DSC03831.JPG

http://www.turbosedan.com/spiritrt/DSC03832.JPG

This pic shows that I had to use washers to space out the wastegate can so it would clear the TII compressor cover. I readjusted the wastegate rod for correct preload.

http://www.turbosedan.com/spiritrt/DSC03833.JPG

This pic shows the 45' brass elbow I put into the center section. I had to do this because the stock brass elbow by itself wouldn't clear the compressor housing, since the TII housing has a slightly larger outer diameter than the TIII housing. I first tried to use a 3/8" NPT-to-3/8" NPT adapter for clearance, but then it stuck out too much and hit the firewall. With the 45' elbow, it cleared the firewall and housing, but then the wastegate bracket got in the way so I had to trim it a little.

http://www.turbosedan.com/spiritrt/DSC03834.JPG

http://www.turbosedan.com/spiritrt/DSC03835.JPG

[iTurbo]

If anybody is wondering, here are the parts I used:

TII: CHRA and compressor housing.

TIII: turbine housing, exhaust outlet, cast oil drain pipe, wastegate can and bracket, turbine hold-down rings and hardware.

Also using TIII oil/coolant lines from TU and they fit great.

[iTurbo]

One more pic.... regarding the cast TIII oil drain pipe. It has a thicker flange than the TII unit and when everything is clocked properly, the hex-head compressor housing bolts are too big. You have to use one of the pan-head torx compressor housing bolts from the TIII so it clears the drain pipe. Here is another pic.

http://www.turbosedan.com/spiritrt/DSC03836.JPG

[iTurbo]

Well it's on there. Installing a turbo on a TIII is ridiculously easy compared to the TI/TII!!

http://www.turbosedan.com/spiritrt/DSC03837.JPG

http://www.turbosedan.com/spiritrt/DSC03838.JPG

http://www.turbosedan.com/spiritrt/DSC03839.JPG

Won't be able to start it up until next week though. Gotta buy new coolant, oil, filter, a few clamps etc...and hopefully my timing belt tensioner will be in the mail by then.

[iTurbo]

The car is up and running with the TII/TIII turbocharger. Here are a couple pics of the discharge hose. I managed to get it on just fine with no kinks, even though the TII compressor housing has an angled discharge.

http://www.turbosedan.com/spirit/DSC03845.JPG

http://www.turbosedan.com/spirit/DSC03846.JPG

You really can't even tell it's not the stock turbo unless you stick your head way down there.

http://www.turbosedan.com/spirit/DSC03847.JPG