2.2 OR 2.5 16 Valve?

[2.2turboscotty]

i am going to try to go the hybrid route with my son's new found project and i am totally new to the 16 valve thing. first off i have never attempted any thing like this but i have been reading up on some of your guy's builds. my son is 15 and he is very interested in joining us with the turbo mopar love and frustations that go along with it. we have been looking for a Omni but came across a perfectly straight minivan with 3.0 in it that was abandoned at a local lot and the owner of the property said he would almost give it away, thinking 50 bucks. it is the panel van one with no windows on the sides so it should be lighter than the ones with windows and that should help. i was given a 2.0 DOHC motor and i want to use the head on a 2.2 or 2.5. i need some opinions on which bottom end would be better for this build up. i like the 2.2 because it revs higher but i have mostly L bodies and they are really light and i know the van will be quite a bit heavier. i want to go auto but my son really wants a manual, what would be better in a van?
i just need some input from you guys so we go the right way with this, it will be a mostly street driven van. also what psi is good for keeping it fast but not working on it every weekend, any help would be appreciated. we are really looking forward to building this together and plan on starting this weekend.

[shelbyplaya]

If your gonna bulid a mini i would go with a 2.5l dues to it's higher torque.

If your gonna go with an omni then i would go with a 2.2l. i went with a hybrid 2.5l into a daytona because the tracks i race on are short tracks so the torque is better for me.

[2.2turboscotty]

the 2.5 is what i was thinking too, shelbyplaya. he is really excited and wants the van instead of the Omni. he thinks it would be great just for the effect, you know the van thing. he also plays with some of his friends in a band and it would be great for being able to carry instruments and such. i am VERY excited he wants to build this and it is something we can do together. what about the auto vs manual? any other suggustions?

[turbovanman²]

If its a loaded Van, with an auto, go 2.5L. I was told and will heed this, do high rpm blasts only, don't keep revving them, so keep the ceiling to around 6500 rpm and at the track, let it all out.

If its a 5 speed, tough call, you could get away with either a 2.2 or 2.5 but if its heavy and your going to tow, stay 2.5, lighter and no towing, go 2.2.

Auto or standard, no real pro's or con's except the auto will rev high on the highway if you commute alot and they need building to live against a hybrid whereas you can literally throw in a 555/568 and it will live.

I wouldn't even think about not putting in some type of traction diff, IE OBX/Peloquin/Quaife.

Hope that helps.

[shelbyplaya]

as far as trans go i'm going with a stock A523 with an OBX LSD

[2.2turboscotty]

thanks Simon and slebyplaya for the advice. i know he wants 5 speed but i think i am going to push him into the auto. the only cable shifter stuff i have are Daytona and Sundance ones and not sure if i can get them to work, as far as 555s i have 3 sitting around. i think he just likes shifting vs putting into gear and driving, so i am thinking RMVB just like i have in the Scamp. it is fun to drive and i have had really good luck with pounding on it and it keeps on going. i don't forsee him doing a lot of highway driving or going on long trips. i agree that the difference between my SC and Scamp is about 800-1k at about 65mph. i don't think we will be doing any towing with it and he knows that the lighter the faster so only extras in it would be a nice sound system and some carpet. i have a common block 2.5 and a few other early 2.5s but a lot of 2.2s but i think all of them are early ones, i'll have to check. what kind of boost is safe to shoot for and is there anything that is common to check for before running into any problems? he is 15 but VERY knowlegable when it comes to working on things even doing things like valve adjustments and engine rebuilding, guess it comes from all the long hours in the garage with me at night. this summer he wants to come work at the shop with me after school to get even better. any advice either of you think of along the way that will aid us would be really sweet. i want him to enjoy the building and driving of the van and with any hope he will work on it lest than i do the SC.
THANKS GUYS!

[turbovanman²]

What to look for? not sure what you mean for that and as for boost, that all depends on what engine you built and what fuel system you have, :thumb:

[2.2turboscotty]

Alright we went and got the motor and brought it back to the garage and it's a 2.4 not 2.0. i asked what it came out of and it came out of a Stratus. my son broke it down and we set the head on the block that's sitting on the stand. it looks like all the head bolts line up and i know we will have to plumb in the oil feed line and the return lines. can i feed the oil to the head from the block that feeds the turbo, sending units? what should i use for the cam gears? i have seen different setups on the oil feed and return lines but i think we will use stainless braided with fittings. i will keep reading up on others builds but my computer is down at home so the only time i have to get on here is at work between cars. thanks for the help, Simon.

[turbovanman²]

Alright we went and got the motor and brought it back to the garage and it's a 2.4 not 2.0. i asked what it came out of and it came out of a Stratus. my son broke it down and we set the head on the block that's sitting on the stand. it looks like all the head bolts line up and i know we will have to plumb in the oil feed line and the return lines. can i feed the oil to the head from the block that feeds the turbo, sending units? what should i use for the cam gears? i have seen different setups on the oil feed and return lines but i think we will use stainless braided with fittings. i will keep reading up on others builds but my computer is down at home so the only time i have to get on here is at work between cars. thanks for the help, Simon.

All that info is in the stickies in this section. :nod:

Cam gears, easiest is FWD Performance.

[rbryant]

What engine control do you plan on using?

If you go with something like Megasquirt it might be easier and cheaper to just run the 2.4 rather than the hybrid engine... It is also a compramise between the 2.2 and 2.5 (although closer to the 2.5)

Using the 2.4 involves engine mounts and engine control. Using the 2.5 involves the hybrid head and custom cam gears. IMO mounts are cheaper and easier to make/buy than cam gears. The 2.4 setup should also be more reliable in general. Plus if you blow an engine there is less machining to be done in the future since you have a regular 2.4 in there.

-Rich

[2.2turboscotty]

Thanks Simon, i will look in the stickies and see what i can find. i'll also give Cindy a call on the gears, heck i need one for the Scamp anyway.
Rich i am not sure what we will use for engine control, the van is a V6 so it will all have to come out(wiring). i have a few options and a few donor cars to rob stuff from. we have some time before he gets his licence but we want to get most of the stuff engine wise mocked up so we can remove it and paint under the hood. i think we will stay with a 2.5 with the 2.4 dohc head, nobody around here has done one that i know about, that will be kinda cool.
on another note i had an old 318 Duster as my first car, doesn't a turboed mini with a 2.5 hybrid sound like a really cool first car? of course i'll have to drive it for a while and work all the bugs out of it before i cut him loose in it.

[2.2turboscotty]

i was reading about an adapter rbryant was talking about making for the 2.4 head, would this be the way to go because it looks like i will have to come up something for the dist. i may have room in the van to make an intake that clears but may make things simpler to just move it to the head if i go that way with electronics and using the dist. instead of mega? pardon me as like i said i have never messed with the hybrid setups. just trying to come up with a plan so we can move forward, i also decided to go 2.5 and we have a really nice CB that we are taking apart and starting to go through.

[turbovanman²]

You can run the dizzy in the stock spot as there is more room on a 2.5 hybrid but moving it over can be easier for access. I am moving mine over as to get at my wires, cap, rotor or HEP, I have to remove the intake.

[2.2turboscotty]

You can run the dizzy in the stock spot as there is more room on a 2.5 hybrid but moving it over can be easier for access. I am moving mine over as to get at my wires, cap, rotor or HEP, I have to remove the intake.

thanks again Simon, i would hate to have to remove the intake to get to those parts that seem to fail every so often. i've had to put an HEP in on the side of the road before and it took longer find the flashlight in the car than to fix but removing the intake would be a real pain on the side of the road.
in your opinion you would put it on the head then? i would certainly spend some cash on an adapter that worked so i wouldn't have to fab that up too.

[turbovanman²]

thanks again Simon, i would hate to have to remove the intake to get to those parts that seem to fail every so often. i've had to put an HEP in on the side of the road before and it took longer find the flashlight in the car than to fix but removing the intake would be a real pain on the side of the road.
in your opinion you would put it on the head then? i would certainly spend some cash on an adapter that worked so i wouldn't have to fab that up too.

I am not sure, the TIII is a pain but I believe theres alot more room on a 2.5 Hybrid. I am sure someone will post up pics or add there 2 cents.

With it on the side of the head, it does make servicing a snap, so I would take that into consideration. If it was me, I would put it on the head.

[2.2turboscotty]

Simon i have seen pics of the dist. in the head and i agree it looks like it would make things a snap to work on. i will let rbryant know i am in for one of the adapters he is talking about. i do wish someone would post some more pics of their builds, it would help with getting an idea on the intake and exhaust manifolds. i have a nice mig at the house and have access to tig that i can do the alum. stuff with. i have some friends that work at a place that we can do a lot of the fabricating and we can work on my stuff at night. i know i have time but i want to get going on this thing BAD! if someone else will chime in and throw some pics out that would help, i was thinking about using the OEM intake and cutting it at the runners but i will need some help with how others have done theirs.

[rbryant]

Simon i have seen pics of the dist. in the head and i agree it looks like it would make things a snap to work on. i will let rbryant know i am in for one of the adapters he is talking about. i do wish someone would post some more pics of their builds, it would help with getting an idea on the intake and exhaust manifolds. i have a nice mig at the house and have access to tig that i can do the alum. stuff with. i have some friends that work at a place that we can do a lot of the fabricating and we can work on my stuff at night. i know i have time but i want to get going on this thing BAD! if someone else will chime in and throw some pics out that would help, i was thinking about using the OEM intake and cutting it at the runners but i will need some help with how others have done theirs.

There is a guy that goes by "allmotormike" on neons.org that can make custom intake manifolds. He happens to be local to me so I have met with him a few times. We are working on a full custom intake mani for my SRT4 engine that will fit in my GLHS with a stock sized radiator and fan.

-Rich

[2.2turboscotty]

sweet Rich thanks i may try and get in touch with him, i need to get the 3.0 out of the van and set a 2.5 block and 2.4 head in it to find out what kind of clearence i have. i see you are doing it in a van also, cool. find out some more on that adapter i really would like one.