Gauging interest on TIII distributor plates and machined cam ends!

[turbovanman²]

I am going to have my machinist friend make me a plate, similiar to this one-

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=265318&postcount=17


I obviously can't price it out until I have an aprox show of hands.

Edited out machining cams, :thumb:

[iTurbo]

I'm interested, although a little soon for me to commit. After my Lancer project is done, I'm putting a TIII in my Omni with distributor. I had originally planned on a distributor in the stock location, but that would mean getting a very expensive intake manifold to provide clearance. Will this fit a TIII L-body?

[Turbo224]

Count me in. Just so long as the price is reasonable. How exactly does it make a seal and how does the dist. connect to the cam? Seems like it would be an easy fix to doing the wiring on my T3 L body.

[turbovanman²]

I'm interested, although a little soon for me to commit. After my Lancer project is done, I'm putting a TIII in my Omni with distributor. I had originally planned on a distributor in the stock location, but that would mean getting a very expensive intake manifold to provide clearance. Will this fit a TIII L-body?

Not sure, you would have to measure, I don't have an L body, ;)


Count me in. Just so long as the price is reasonable. How exactly does it make a seal and how does the dist. connect to the cam? Seems like it would be an easy fix to doing the wiring on my T3 L body.

From the guy in the thread I posted, It uses the stock O-ring and I guess just use sealer for the head to the plate. I haven't looked that far into yet but will in the next week.

[karlak]

count me in....... have enough invested in smec's that it would be worth it. Not to mention I currently need a crank sensor that would no longer be needed. Now if someone has a good t-3 cal for a smec.

[turbovanman²]

count me in....... have enough invested in smec's that it would be worth it. Not to mention I currently need a crank sensor that would no longer be needed. Now if someone has a good t-3 cal for a smec.


Cindy has one, I am going to try her hybrid cal on my 2.5 soon.

[karlak]

Just got my cams back from Delta with their high performance grind. Going to make me cry to have the exhaust cam cut on. Will have to find someone trustworthy to do the mod.

[turbovanman²]

Just got my cams back from Delta with their high performance grind. Going to make me cry to have the exhaust cam cut on. Will have to find someone trustworthy to do the mod.


I could be wrong but don't the ends come off? thats what I meant by getting them cut. There is a screw but I haven't messed with them to know exactly what that does?

[ShelGame]

I think I'd get one, too. If it's reasonable. It looks like a pretty simple flat plate, so I could make it myself at work - given the time.

[86Shelby]

I could be wrong but don't the ends come off? thats what I meant by getting them cut. There is a screw but I haven't messed with them to know exactly what that does?

No, the ends don't come off. The screw is a plug for oil galley which is the center of the cam.

I'm interested. Count me in.

[turbovanman²]

No, the ends don't come off. The screw is a plug for oil galley which is the center of the cam.

I'm interested. Count me in.

Ok, thats what threw me off, wasn't sure if it was just a plug or the end, :o

[Omniboy]

I did one like that. I just used a little bit of ultra grey silicone on the plate. Also you need to do some other mods to the pick-up wheel as the distributor will turn backwards on the cam and also swap the trigger wires.

[turbovanman²]

I did one like that. I just used a little bit of ultra grey silicone on the plate. Also you need to do some other mods to the pick-up wheel as the distributor will turn backwards on the cam and also swap the trigger wires.

Thanks but trust me, easier than running a distributor, alot cheaper too, ;)

[Clay]

Thanks but trust me, easier than running a distributor, alot cheaper too, ;)

Im confused here Simon. John did the same thing, and used a distributor a few years back. He's saying what else needs to be done for the distributor to work..... what are you talking about?

[turbovanman²]

Im confused here Simon. John did the same thing, and used a distributor a few years back. He's saying what else needs to be done for the distributor to work..... what are you talking about?

In the stock spot, :p

[karlak]

Any known wear issues with this mod. Would hate to have distributer shafts snapping off. Still want to try it.

[turbovanman²]

Any known wear issues with this mod. Would hate to have distributer shafts snapping off. Still want to try it.

I can't see how that would happen? :confused: :eyebrows:

[karlak]

You dont have my luck.............:rolleyes:

[Turbo224]

So I assume that the exhaust cam will need to be notched some way for the dist to fit into? Does the dist need to be shortened?

[turbovanman²]

So I assume that the exhaust cam will need to be notched some way for the dist to fit into? Does the dist need to be shortened?

According to the thread I linked to, if you use a 1/2 thick plate, no dist mods are needed. Yep, just notch out the exhaust cam end.

[Clay]

According to the thread I linked to, if you use a 1/2 thick plate, no dist mods are needed. Yep, just notch out the exhaust cam end.

according to John (Omniboy) the distributor will spin the opposite direction, so you will have to do some internal distributor mods/wire swaps/etc

[turbovanman²]

according to John (Omniboy) the distributor will spin the opposite direction, so you will have to do some internal distributor mods/wire swaps/etc

Thats been covered, you don't need to mod the distributor itself.

[Clay]

ok, cool. I just want to make sure I understand whats going on for future reference! ;)

[turbovanman²]

ok, cool. I just want to make sure I understand whats going on for future reference! ;)

I'll know more myself after I get one done. ;)

[Omniboy]

I don't see how it could possibly work without modifying the distributor. The exhaust cam will spin the distributor in reverse direction. The way I over came this was to grind the little bit of plastic off of the pick up wheel so you can reposition it one hole back. Then glue it back down. Then you need to swap the trigger wires. Then swap the #2 and #3 plug wires. I don't know of any other way to make it work other than the way I did it. Unless there was some sort of custom calibration that could be done to make it work.

[Omniboy]

The way I described above is the way I did it like 4 years ago on my T3 minivan. I at first thought it would just be a matter of cutting the cam and making the plate. Once mounted I soon found out that just swapping the plug wires was not enough. So then I swapped the pick up wires and this got me closer but still the pick up window was in the incorrect location for reverse rotation. Thus the need for moving the pick up window. I will take some pictures of my setup tomorrow and some pics of the pick up wheel. Has anybody else successfully ran a distributor like this and did it without having to modify the pick-up window ?

[turbovanman²]

The way I described above is the way I did it like 4 years ago on my T3 minivan. I at first thought it would just be a matter of cutting the cam and making the plate. Once mounted I soon found out that just swapping the plug wires was not enough. So then I swapped the pick up wires and this got me closer but still the pick up window was in the incorrect location for reverse rotation. Thus the need for moving the pick up window. I will take some pictures of my setup tomorrow and some pics of the pick up wheel. Has anybody else successfully ran a distributor like this and did it without having to modify the pick-up window ?


I see what your saying and know about swapping the PU wires but why cylinders 2 and 3? the firing order is still the same.

As for the pickup window, the slot is centered in the vane so thats not the problem, maybe the #1 sync is in a different spot on the pickup, or X amount of degrees before/after the #1 firing point.

[turbovanman²]

Ok, just looked at a dist and pu, it looks like the #1 sync sits at 11 oclock looking at the block, so that is going to be an issue. Even turning the HEP around, doesn't alter that location.

[Omniboy]

#2 and #3 will need swapped as well because it will be going in reverse rotation...TRUST ME...I have done it and this is what you have to do to make it work correctly.

[Omniboy]

you have to change the pick up location because of swapping the pick up wires.

[86Shelby]

Omniboy- I'm not following you for the reason the vanes need to be moved. I could understand moving them if someone was dead set on having the body of the distributor in a certain position. When you get down to it if you remove the vanes and move them over 45*, you could have just moved the body of the distributor 45* and accomplished the same thing- granted the flat side of the distributor body won't be in the same position you originally wanted. Am I totally off base with this thinking?

[turbovanman²]

#2 and #3 will need swapped as well because it will be going in reverse rotation...TRUST ME...I have done it and this is what you have to do to make it work correctly.

I understand that, sorry, got lost earlier and yes, the firing order needs to be changed.


Omniboy- I'm not following you for the reason the vanes need to be moved. I could understand moving them if someone was dead set on having the body of the distributor in a certain position. When you get down to it if you remove the vanes and move them over 45*, you could have just moved the body of the distributor 45* and accomplished the same thing- granted the flat side of the distributor body won't be in the same position you originally wanted. Am I totally off base with this thinking?

The TDC spot doesn't change wether the distributor is forward or backwards, its the #1 sync, if you take the top cover off the HEP, you can see the sync sits at 11 oclock, this is the issue whengoing backwards.

[86Shelby]

I still don't understand why you need to remove the trigger wheel and place it in a different position on the shaft. That is a lot of work to do something that can be taken care of by putting the body at a different position. What do you do when the oil pump line is not perfectly aligned with the block? Do you remove the wheel and reposition it? Heck no, you simply rotate the distributor body. Sure, the flat part is at an angle, but that's a whole lot easier than melting the plastic, removing the wheel, and then remelting the plastic to reinstall the wheel. Follow me now? Am I misunderstanding what Omniboy wrote?

Swap pins so the HEP signals are in the correct order- understand. Firing order changes- understood.

[turbovanman²]

I still don't understand why you need to remove the trigger wheel and place it in a different position on the shaft. That is a lot of work to do something that can be taken care of by putting the body at a different position. What do you do when the oil pump line is not perfectly aligned with the block? Do you remove the wheel and reposition it? Heck no, you simply rotate the distributor body. Sure, the flat part is at an angle, but that's a whole lot easier than melting the plastic, removing the wheel, and then remelting the plastic to reinstall the wheel. Follow me now? Am I misunderstanding what Omniboy wrote?

Swap pins so the HEP signals are in the correct order- understand. Firing order changes- understood.


Your not getting it. The #1 sync is at 11 oclock looking at the block, now reverse the rotation and now the #1 sync is at 1 oclock. Moving the distributor does nothing except change both of them, which still puts the #1 sync out. The only way to mod the sync is to move the PU to the other side or somehow mod the window.

[86Shelby]

I'll dig out a dizzy & hep tonight and take a look. There's something I'm missing here. Are the hep pickups possibly at different heights?

[Omniboy]

Here are some pics of my setup. I swapped the trigger wires on the van side of the harness so if I ever needed to buy a pick-up while on the road i could just stop at any auto parts store and buy a new pick up. The only mod to the distributor was moving the pick up wheel window to the other side of the pick-up .
http://home.insightbb.com/~omniboy22/images/5b83884a42.JPG
http://home.insightbb.com/~omniboy22/images/830b19049b.JPG
http://home.insightbb.com/~omniboy22/images/31b4d22649.JPG

[Omniboy]

If you don't move the pick up wheel the rotor will be in the incorrect location in reference to the pick up and window. This is why you have to move the pick wheel because just turning the distributor will not accomplish the correct alignments for reverse rotation.

[Omniboy]

http://home.insightbb.com/~omniboy22/images/ef44ca675d.JPG
http://home.insightbb.com/~omniboy22/images/27e340761f.JPG
http://home.insightbb.com/~omniboy22/images/a02d41d798.JPG
http://home.insightbb.com/~omniboy22/images/bed696c7c4.JPG

[Omniboy]

Here are my picks of the rest of the stuff that I'm working on for my T3 into the omni

60 trim turbo
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f59/omniboy22/589dd0a8.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f59/omniboy22/Picture002.jpg
My start to a header
http://home.insightbb.com/~omniboy22/images/e341cb5efb.JPG
http://home.insightbb.com/~omniboy22/images/a25e69f542.JPG

[Omniboy]

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f59/omniboy22/Picture003.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f59/omniboy22/Picture006.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f59/omniboy22/Picture005.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f59/omniboy22/Picture004.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f59/omniboy22/Picture010.jpg

[Omniboy]

sorry for the hijack... Anyways hopefully those pics will clear it up for you.

[turbovanman²]

Ok, I am now confused. The vane slot needs to be moved in relation to crank degrees so merely moving the stator wheel and gluing doesn't change that. If you look at the stocker, lets say the slot is at 340 deg, now reversing the dist puts it at 20 deg, make sense now? or am I missing something? :confused:

Have you tried this on a running car yet?

Nice 60 trim, I have one of those and put my 50 trim back in, the 60 trim surged way too much, :(

[Omniboy]

Yes the is the way I had it setup when I had it running in the van with smec electronics when the T3 was stock.

I haven't ran this 60 trim on the T3 yet but I have one on my 8 valver and don't have any issuses. what was your 60 trim like? This one has the stage 3 exh wheel with a .63 housing. Also it is a external wastegated turbo. Was yours a internal wastegate? My head is also ported and has a custom Wallace regrind on the cams. Plus a it will be hanging off of a nice stainless header and 3 inch smooth bend o2 housing. hopefully it will work out for me. I have had friends that have ran this same turbo on 4G63's with good results. But like my setup they had cams, port work and a header.

[ShelGame]

Here's how Dave Bohrer modded the distributor to make it work on his Neon engine. This is a sticky in the Hybrid section, BTW...

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13479&postcount=14

[Omniboy]

That is exactly how I have my shutter wheel oriented only he used screws and I used epoxy. Once you grind the plastic off there is still enough of the plastic sticking up so when you rotate the shutter wheel back to the correct location the plastic sticking up will fit in the holes on the shutter wheel so you don't need to do any degree measurements or anything. Just either screw it back down or epoxy it. Swap the trigger wires and swap #2 and #3 plug wires and install turbovanman's plate and you are ready to go.

[Omniboy]

here you go

http://www.att.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=87&subpageid=52704&ck=

[Omniboy]

Instead of drilling the plastic nubs like he describes if you just grind them off smooth with the wheel surface they will act as and alignment tab for you.

[86Shelby]

Alright, after I was able to take a good look at it all in the garage last night I understand why the wheel needs to be moved. I forgot that the pickups aren't quite 180* apart and the rotor doesn't line up real nice with the window.

[turbovanman²]

Yes the is the way I had it setup when I had it running in the van with smec electronics when the T3 was stock.

I haven't ran this 60 trim on the T3 yet but I have one on my 8 valver and don't have any issuses. what was your 60 trim like? This one has the stage 3 exh wheel with a .63 housing. Also it is a external wastegated turbo. Was yours a internal wastegate? My head is also ported and has a custom Wallace regrind on the cams. Plus a it will be hanging off of a nice stainless header and 3 inch smooth bend o2 housing. hopefully it will work out for me. I have had friends that have ran this same turbo on 4G63's with good results. But like my setup they had cams, port work and a header.

An old timer got ahold of me and he said he has run the dist backwards with no modding?? I am trying to get more info.

Slightly ported head, stock cams, slightly ported stock exhaust manifold, Garret 60 trim, stage 3 turbine, .63 housing, external wastegate, 3 inch all the way back on my 2.5 TIII but it wasn't tuned.


Here's how Dave Bohrer modded the distributor to make it work on his Neon engine. This is a sticky in the Hybrid section, BTW...

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13479&postcount=14

No worky for me, :(

[turbovanman²]

Ok, one plate is being made now, he is making a lip that will fit in the frost plug area so it will be centered on any head. I will post pics up when he's done and a price too, :thumb:

[86Shelby]

Nice! I won't be having a cam machined, but I'm game for the plate.

[turbovanman²]

Nice! I won't be having a cam machined, but I'm game for the plate.

Ignore the cam thing, I thought the end came off, hadn't really looked, lol!

[iTurbo]

Well it looks like I'll have to bow out of this. Another solution came up and I couldn't pass on it. Good luck guys.

[Turbo224]

Well it looks like I'll have to bow out of this. Another solution came up and I couldn't pass on it. Good luck guys.

And you're not going to share? :p

[iTurbo]

It's a crank sensor relocation kit, made by Tom Mazur I think. It relocates the stock crank sensor to the front of the engine, using a bolt-on trigger wheel behind the front crank pulley. I plan to use it in my Omni with a built A525 from Cliff Ramsdell, heim-joint rod shifter, and aluminum flywheel. It works with the stock TIII SBEC. I haven't got it yet, but it looks like the base timing is also adjustable.

[Turbo224]

It's a crank sensor relocation kit, made by Tom Mazur I think. It relocates the stock crank sensor to the front of the engine, using a bolt-on trigger wheel behind the front crank pulley. I plan to use it in my Omni with a built A525 from Cliff Ramsdell, heim-joint rod shifter, and aluminum flywheel. It works with the stock TIII SBEC. I haven't got it yet, but it looks like the base timing is also adjustable.


Sounds pretty cool!

[86Shelby]

I thought about going with the crank sensor relocation setup. Then I realized that I'll have to rewire the whole front end of the car for the SBEC. I'll just stick with swapping pins & a chip since my harness is in great shape. ;)

[iTurbo]

I should mention this 'kit' is actually a one-off that he made. I don't know if the guy that made it is even into TMs anymore. It comes with a harness extension for the sensor so it doesn't look like any rewiring would be necessary on a TIII car; just plug'n'play.

I will have to rewire my Omni though. I had originally planned to use the SMEC electronics I've already put in the car, and use a distributor on the TIII; either in the stock location or driven off the exhaust cam. But with this relocation kit, I'll be making a custom harness out of a '90 TBI Omni harness and running TIII SBEC.

[karlak]

any new news?

[turbovanman²]

Still waiting for him to make it, he's holding me ransom for one of his projects, :(

[karlak]

http://www.emachineshop.com/indexg.htm?gclid=CPq59Lj-nJICFQIgPAodBjUqng

Freedom from the machinst

[turbovanman²]

http://www.emachineshop.com/indexg.htm?gclid=CPq59Lj-nJICFQIgPAodBjUqng

Freedom from the machinst


Thanks, but he's 5 secs away. I'll get him next week, last time I checked, he had it half done.