Starts then dies...

[Black_Sunshine]

I'm not one to post questions since usually I search the archives for a similar question but I'm stumped on this one. It's a 90 VNT Daytona with an 87 TII engine. I recently replaced the starter since the old one was faulty. We had one laying around so I tried it and it worked. Problem solved until the starter went out again within 10 starts so I went and picked up a reman at Advance. After I installed the reman, I started it and then it died. Starter works; something else does not. No codes besides 12 and 55, grounds are solid, nothing unusual in the wiring harness, ASD relay is clicking, checked and cleaned injector harness as well as other connections, there is spark when the car starts, idles, and when it dies, fuel pump is turning on at least but I'm thinking that it's suspect. I wanted to do more but it was getting late last night. I might not be home till wednesday, which is where the car is, so I won't be able to check anything else until then. Any ideas/suggestions are welcome...

Dax:evil:

[moparzrule]

+1 to fuel. How full is the tank? I had my car on a downhill the other day and it did the same thing, it would start but run for a couple seconds then die. It was a driveway so I had to back out, so I had to throw a gallon of gas in it, took a couple tries to get the air out of the system but then it started running fine.

[mock_glh]

Check your fuel pressure. Sometimes (happened to me recently) a piece of debris gets into the regulator and causes the pressure to go way high. It will start but it will barely idle and won't take any throttle.

[Black_Sunshine]

+1 to fuel. How full is the tank? I had my car on a downhill the other day and it did the same thing, it would start but run for a couple seconds then die. It was a driveway so I had to back out, so I had to throw a gallon of gas in it, took a couple tries to get the air out of the system but then it started running fine.

I'm pretty sure I put fuel in it the night before it started acting up. That's one thing I haven't checked but it's crossed my mind. It would be nice if it was that simple, but then again it'll give me a reason to put the 255 walbro in :D I won't have a chance to check it out until wednesday (maybe sooner), but hopefully I can put a pressure gauge on it and see what's goin on. The sooner the better of course, especially since the R/T Kota is very thirsty!

Dax:evil:

[clarkwhoracing]

I would agree with the fuel but you might have what happened to me also. I pulled a pump out once and thought it was bad and thrw a gallon of gas in it and ran fine.

I have had the line on the fuel pump in the tank rupture on me a couple times now until I put high grade line on it. Might possibly be a problem.

The car would start and run then die or just stumble very badly. What sucks for me it happened coming back from getting a omni in PA at 1:30am in the morning and I was going 70 in hte left lane at the time - nothing like going like a bat out of hell then pop, pop, chug with an automatic to boot! I could crank and get it running after about 15 seconds since the pressure built up some then die once the motor started sucking the fuel.

Good luck and hope its a easy fix.

[Black_Sunshine]

Ouch! One A.M. on the highway wouldn't be too pretty. I guess I got lucky in the sense that it didn't happen while I was driving. I didn't get a chance to get to it on wednesday (I'm working an hour from my house and 10 mins from my girlfriends' place so I'm staying at her place during the week) but a couple of well-trusted TDer's might be checking it out tonight for me. Our weekend goal is to fix the Daytona and finish up the 5-spd creampuff boost van :thumb: Regardless, when I get home from work tomorrow I'm heading straight to the garage and try to get things rollin'. Thanks for the ideas thus far. I'm sure I'll be all up in the tank tomorrow and I'll keep the lines in mind.

Dax :evil:

[clarkwhoracing]

Yeah - I sat there about an hour before help arrived and got to a garage at 2:30 am - they were kind enough to let me sleep in my car until morning when they could look and fix it. Rough night I tell you.

I called a t.d. buddy and he told me to get the line in the tank - after about an hour of other investigating the guys popped out the fuel pump and there it was. Lucky they were a few old timers that worked on these cars back in the day but never that problem.

After that I gingerly drove it home until I knew I was on my road then got on it in case it broke.

[Black_Sunshine]

Well, after all this time, I really haven't had too much time to work on it. This past weekend I dropped the tank so I could see what the hell was goin on. Everything seemed in working order, but I replaced the pump with the new 255 Walbro I had since it was going in regardless. Went to start it up and the same sh*t is happening: Starts up, runs for about 3 seconds then cuts out. It has to be a fuel issue. I can't give it enough gas to get it running before it dies. Another thing I've noticed is that the car won't start at all after it dies. I have to prime the pump 3+ times and then it will start, run for about 3 seconds then die. Repeat. Any ideas?

Dax :evil:

[moparzrule]

Now it sounds like the fuel filter is clogged....

[Black_Sunshine]

Brand spankin new filter...:mad:

Dax:evil:

[bradp]

Do you have an extra coil laying around. Try that if you have good fuel pressure.

[bradp]

I've had a coil go bad and it does the thing you're talking about.

[moparzrule]

Take the line off at the rail and put it in plastic container, and turn the key on and when the pump primes take note to how much fuel gets put into the container. This is just to make sure there's not a clog in the line somewhere.

Have you actually checked the fuel pressure?

[Black_Sunshine]

Do you have an extra coil laying around. Try that if you have good fuel pressure.

Cory and I checked spark and it's getting spark when starting, when it's running, and when it dies.
I'm staying at my girlfriends house during the week since it's only a 10 minute drive oppossed to a 50 minute drive so I only get to work on the car on the weekends. I've been busy the last couple weekends so I haven't made much progress until this past sunday night. I'm getting pressure to the fuel rail but I haven't check to see how much. I thought a friend had a fuel pressure gauge, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to invest in one (Anyone know of a parts chain that sells a half-way decent pressure gauge?). Thanks for the ideas. I'm not going to get a chance to get back into it until the weekend, but I'm determined to have it fixed:nod: Any more ideas are greatly appriciated!

Dax:evil:

[moparzrule]

I got my FP gauge from Advance Auto, it's like $40 and works well.

[bradp]

Cory and I checked spark and it's getting spark when starting, when it's running, and when it dies.
I'm staying at my girlfriends house during the week since it's only a 10 minute drive oppossed to a 50 minute drive so I only get to work on the car on the weekends. I've been busy the last couple weekends so I haven't made much progress until this past sunday night. I'm getting pressure to the fuel rail but I haven't check to see how much. I thought a friend had a fuel pressure gauge, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to invest in one (Anyone know of a parts chain that sells a half-way decent pressure gauge?). Thanks for the ideas. I'm not going to get a chance to get back into it until the weekend, but I'm determined to have it fixed:nod: Any more ideas are greatly appriciated!

Dax:evil:

One of mine did the same thing...just didnt have enough spark...just an idea

[moparzrule]

Well, a new stock coil is only like $15 at advance so it's not a huge loss if it isn't it. But it could be possible.

[Black_Sunshine]

We have a bunch of coils around the garage and in working cars so I'll do that friday after I get home with my new gauge. Heck it's worth a shot. Once again, I appriciate the ideas and I'm hoping my next reply to this thread is "Thanks for the help, it's fixed" :D But I don't want to get ahead of myself...

Dax:evil:

[Blue Iroc R/T]

Do you have a Factory Alarm on the car? Try locking and unlocking the drivers door. 90 Daytona has a SBEC and I think the factory alarm (if it has one), would work like they do in the 92/93 Daytonas.
Just a thought, because if you have a factory alarm and you lost power or disconnected the battery, it won't start until you power up, then lock and unlock the door. It will start and run for about 2or 3 seconds max.

[Kevin]

Sounds like a fuel issue as has already been stated. However it sounds like the problem hits when you switch from the prime pulse/start fuel maps into the running maps. Almost sounds like the map sensor isn't getting a clean signal or is bad. You'd probably get a code 13 or 14, but it's possible the voltage is still above .02v so it doesn't trigger 14. Code 13 might not get triggered if the engine doesn't run for at least long enough to get into closed loop. I honestly think the map sensor is a bit of a stretch though.

You need to get some fuel pressure readings. My money is on a leak in the lines somewhere or a faulty regulator.

[Black_Sunshine]

Well I finally got some fuel pressure readings :around 48psi at start up, and peaks to 56ish, so it seems the fuel is there. Messed around with the power locks still no start. I'm gonna try switching coils from a working car next. I'm heading to town to get some grub and beer and think about what the heck is goin' on. Any other ideas?

Dax:evil:

[Omniboy]

I have that MSD blaster 2 coil on the omni you can try

[Black_Sunshine]

I looked in the omni but I didn't see it. Is it in the hatch?

Dax:evil:

[Omniboy]

Was there nothing in the coil clamp on the passenger side fender well?

[Black_Sunshine]

Found it. It was too dark last night and trying to lift up the hood w/o scratching the paint can be a pain. I replaced my stock coil with a working Blaster 2 coil and same thing. Starts then stalls. I'm starting to think it's a computer issue since obviously I have fuel and spark. Something is cutting off fuel to the injectors. Any more ideas?

Dax:evil:

[Black_Sunshine]

...Replaced the HEP...same thing. Cleaned and lubed the harness connectors...same thing. I was going to switch computers but I realized none of the computers I have will fit the 90 harness :mad: If anyone has any input, it would be greatly appreciated!

Dax:evil:

[Blue Iroc R/T]

Factory Alarm! Read :nod:
http://www.pbase.com/rmscott/factory_security

[Black_Sunshine]

I don't have a key that will unlock the doors :( To be honest I don't know if the car has the factory alarm or not. Any easy way to tell?

Dax:evil:

[Black_Sunshine]

I looked underneath the hood and didn't see the underhood sensor. Actually the wire/connector that plugs into it is tucked away by the computer.

Dax:evil:

[bradp]

I have a 90 T1 man computer if that will help.

[Blue Iroc R/T]

I looked underneath the hood and didn't see the underhood sensor. Actually the wire/connector that plugs into it is tucked away by the computer.

Dax:evil:

Ok. Then the car probably doesn't have a factory alarm. Now, is the SBEC the same one that has always been in the car? Or has the car EVER ran with the SBEC that is in the car right now? IF SO, forget about the alarm. Your problems is somewhere else.
However, IF the SBEC is NEW TO THIS CAR, it may have came from a car with a factory alarm. IF that is the case, then you MUST install the SBEC is a car that has a factory alarm. Start the car, then Disarm it by removing the plug from the Theft Alarm Module (located above the glove box. See fig. 4 in the previous link.) while the car is running.
Again, IF the car has ran with the present SBEC in the car and the car does NOT have a factory alarm, the the alarm is NOT the problem. But the Start and then Dies Immediately sounds exactly like a Factory Alarm Shutdown.

[Black_Sunshine]

The computer I have has been in the car since I got it about a year ago. I was told it's a VNT computer but I'm having trouble looking up the part number on it
(#4557589). It's not in the database listed on this site. Anyone know what's up with that?

Dax:evil:

[moparzrule]

Could be, all I can find is that it's a 90' 2.2 SBEC. The only 2.2 ecu in 90' would be a VNT or an N/A computer.

[Omniboy]

Dax....I talked to brian today and he said he gave you another good computer for that car. He said it had the mounting tabs broke off of it but it was still good. He said it was in the trunk he thought when he sold it to you. If it wasn't there then there is a good chance that it is in the chicken coop with the rest of the parts we got off of him. It should be the only sbec computer around the farm.

[Black_Sunshine]

I have a 90 T1 man computer if that will help.

Brad if you can bring that 90 computer on sunday I'd really appreciate it. I just want to swap SBEC's and see if that's the problem. I'm staying in Broad Ripple with my girlfriend to save gas (and miles) on my Kota so I don't even see the car during the weekend. With that in mind, I'd like to have the damn thing running this weekend :rolleyes: ...even though I said that this time last week. Anyways...

John, if you happen to find that SBEC lemme know. I was looking for it sunday but couldn't find it. Cory brought all the computers out of the coop and non were SBECs. Only other place it'd be would be in the barn with the rest of my sh*t.

Thanks again to everyone who has offered advice. This is definetly a stubborn one...

Dax:evil:

[bradp]

I'll bring it

Brad

[Black_Sunshine]

Well it turned out to be the SBEC. I remembered where I stored the other computer this afternoon, swapped it in, and it started and ran fine. Took it down the block and back and it pulled great. I have to button up a few more things but my main problem has been fixed. Thanks again to all that helped.

And Brad, if you happen to read this, you don't need to bother bringing the T1 SBEC.

Dax:evil:

[mrmopar66]

I told Lucas there was another good SBEC with the car. Glad ya found it.


Brian