A true S60 roller cam-now available-regrind or new billet!

[turbovanman²]

I am now selling a real copy of the S60 slider cam put on a roller cam with no wear issues or valve train longetivity problems. Due to the conversion, it has a tad slight more duration, stock is 260 deg, still .499" lift.

Install at 110 deg to start.

You WILL need to replace your valve springs. I do sell a Comp Cams spring that will work with this cam, $70 if you get them at the same time.

If I can get 6 or more orders, it drops the price. For this offer, full payment is required up front, aprox 2 weeks or faster turnaround.

A single order is

Regrind is $210 plus your core or $50 extra.
New billet is $385 and no core charge or core.

6 or more orders-

Regrind is $170 plus your core or $50 extra.
New billet is $315 and no core charge or core.

[boost geek]

Will those Comp cam springs handle the height?

[turbovanman²]

Will those Comp cam springs handle the height?

Yes, they will handle that no problem. They should be good to around .600"

[moparzrule]

Will the crane springs that cindy sells handle it?
What about shims, any needed to run this cam?

I would definitely be interested in the 6 people price, but it would have to be about 2 months from now.

[1FastCSX289]

I would also be interested at tax return time (and if they work with my new comp springs). This is an EXACT copy of the S60 specs designed for a roller follower?

[Juggy]

awesome!!!!! now my taft S3 cam may have found its replacement...too bad im broke lol.

I got comp springs from simon and im pretty sure they will handle up to .550" lift! (cant find spec sheet when head was built)

[tryingbe]

Simon, why don't you start selling those valve springs as well?

[turbovanman²]

Simon, why don't you start selling those valve springs as well?


I do sell the valve springs, :thumb: $75 plus shipping.

You'll have to check with Cindy but I am sure they are fine, Warran Stramer runs those with his S3 cam.


I would assume you'll have to run 1 or 2 shims, just like the S2 or S3 series so no biggie there. :D



I would also be interested at tax return time (and if they work with my new comp springs). This is an EXACT copy of the S60 specs designed for a roller follower?

See my first post, :confused: ;)

[WLKivett]

Have you tried one? A s60 cam with a roller profile must be very aggressive. I'll bet that cam will idle like a ProMod car. Sweet!

Landon

[turbovanman²]

Have you tried one? A s60 cam with a roller profile must be very aggressive. I'll bet that cam will idle like a ProMod car. Sweet!

Landon

No, but he has tried this grind before with no issues. :amen:

Having this available has me quite upset, I wish I could have got one and tried it in my van before I went TIII.

[moparzrule]

:confused:

Are roller's different on these cars? I was into racing V8's before I got into these cars, and rollers always idled smoother than flat tappet cams with same duration. That being so if you look at V8 roller cams they usually have very high lift and duration specs.

[turbovanman²]

:confused:

Are roller's different on these cars? I was into racing V8's before I got into these cars, and rollers always idled smoother than flat tappet cams with same duration. That being so if you look at V8 roller cams they usually have very high lift and duration specs.


Not sure, the S2 I tried on my van had a nice lopey idle, just a hint something was different, I liked it, :thumb:

[moparzrule]

Not sure, the S2 I tried on my van had a nice lopey idle, just a hint something was different, I liked it, :thumb:

What I'm saying is everyone here says rollers make the cam profile more aggressive, when in the V8 world rollers make the cams more tame.

[turbovanman²]

What I'm saying is everyone here says rollers make the cam profile more aggressive, when in the V8 world rollers make the cams more tame.

Well rollers open the valve faster and hold it open longer than a similiar slider or flat tappet so I would say, its still going to be very aggressive. :amen:

[moparzrule]

When do you plan on making these cams?

[turbovanman²]

When do you plan on making these cams?

See post 1, ;)

If you want one now, I can get one made pretty quick.

[moparzrule]

LMK if you get 5 other people. I would be interested in the 6 or more people price.

[WLKivett]

:confused:

Are roller's different on these cars? I was into racing V8's before I got into these cars, and rollers always idled smoother than flat tappet cams with same duration. That being so if you look at V8 roller cams they usually have very high lift and duration specs.

It's not the roller thats different it's the slider follower. The slider is rounded with an (I'm guessing here) effective radius of about 5-6 inches. The cam profile can become more aggressive (ie get into lift at a faster rate) as the the radius of the cam follower becomes larger.

In the V8 world with flat tappets if the cam is too aggressive the follower will gouge the cam with it's leading edge. To alleviate this problem roller followers and more recently rounded non-roller tappets have been developed. Our slider followers never had this problem, rollers were introduced on 2.2 / 2.5 for reducing friction (better MPG and part longevity) and lower NVH.

Best Regards,
Landon Kivett

[turbovanman²]

I'll keep adding to this, when get 6 or more, I will get them made up.

1) Moparzrule-regrind-maybe!
2) John B-new billet and springs.
3) Denny-regrind.
4) Josh-regrind maybe?
5) Don-regrind.
6) Ryan-Sloride-new billet.


Ok, guys, thats 6. I will PM if your still interested and collect the money.


John put a deposit of $100 down.

[John B]

Count me in for a new billet cam(it was my idea after all...:cool:) but be sure the timing is exactly the same including the LSA; I don't want any different duration! Roller cams don't have to be more aggressive than sliders and can be made to duplicate slider valve action. PM me on how to send payment. If you get 6 just send me a set of springs for the difference.

[John B]

Have you tried one? A s60 cam with a roller profile must be very aggressive. I'll bet that cam will idle like a ProMod car. Sweet!

Landon It shouldn't have a bad idle with only 260 degree duration. The high lift doesn't affect the idle at all. I'm using an F2 with 260 right now and it has a very acceptable idle. A different LSA can make a difference, however. I don't know what the respective LSAs for the F2/S60 are. I kinda suspect the S60 has a closer LSA. Anyone?

[WLKivett]

It shouldn't have a bad idle with only 260 degree duration. The high lift doesn't affect the idle at all. I'm using an F2 with 260 right now and it has a very acceptable idle. A different LSA can make a difference, however. I don't know what the respective LSAs for the F2/S60 are. I kinda suspect the S60 has a closer LSA. Anyone?


I am now selling a real copy of the S60 slider cam put on a roller cam with no wear issues or valve train longetivity problems. Due to the conversion, it has a tad slight more duration but .499 lift.

S60 cams had a nice thumpy idle and this has more duration thats way I said I bet this would have a ProMod idle. Should produce nice power up top.

Is this cam similar to the Steve M cam?

[turbovanman²]

Is this cam similar to the Steve M cam?

I honestly have no idea.

[John B]

this has more duration

I don't want more duration! I want the exact same valve timing!!

[John B]

Does anyone know the LSA for the original S60 cam? The Dodge Garage article on it's development says that it has a wider LSA than usual. Does the cam grinder have a genuine S60 cam to take readings from? The Comp Cams version has 268 degrees duration vs the original S60's 260 degrees. It's not the same cam.

[turbovanman²]

Does anyone know the LSA for the original S60 cam? The Dodge Garage article on it's development says that it has a wider LSA than usual. Does the cam grinder have a genuine S60 cam to take readings from? The Comp Cams version has 268 degrees duration vs the original S60's 260 degrees. It's not the same cam.


This is NOT from Comp Cams. He has the original specs of the S60, taken from an S60 Slider cam. Again, this is 100% EXACTLY the same as the original but due to the conversion, it has a tad more duration.

[John B]

Why would it be necesssary to increase the duration to convert from slider to roller? You can make a roller any duration you want! I am a bit confused here.

[1984rampage]

What kind of setup should this be used on? Stock or heavily modified? Sorry for the newb question.

[John B]

It was designed for 300HP at 18 PSI on a 2.2. The rest of the combo was the famous S60 turbo, a big valve ported G head, a two-piece intake modified to accept a 52mm TB, +40s, modded cal, and a higher flow fuel pump. The IC for the S60 package was also a bit better than the stock T2 . A ported head done by capable vendors today would outperform the old MP S60 head, and any good double core size IC is far better than the S60's. Cals are also better now, (if you can get someone to do one in a reasonable time).

In my opinion, the S60 cam is good because of it's high lift and relatively low overlap. I think it would be a great choice for boost aps in the 18 to 21 psi range.

[JDAWG]

hmm, interesting indeed

[shadow88]

OK so duration and lift remain the same, right? How about the shape of the lobes? The "area under the curve" as it's better known?

[turbovanman²]

Why would it be necesssary to increase the duration to convert from slider to roller? You can make a roller any duration you want! I am a bit confused here.


Have you looked at a roller cam recently? :p I was told due to the rollers design, the duration changes slightly, not enough to worry about, sheesh man.


What kind of setup should this be used on? Stock or heavily modified? Sorry for the newb question.

Slighly modified would be fine, a better IC would sure help.



OK so duration and lift remain the same, right? How about the shape of the lobes? The "area under the curve" as it's better known?

Again, see post 1, :o

Yes, the lobe is different, its a roller cam.

[shadow88]

I am now selling a real copy of the S60 slider cam put on a roller cam with no wear issues or valve train longetivity problems. Due to the conversion, it has a tad slight more duration but .499 lift.

An edited version of post 1.
No mention of shape of the lobe or the steep opening ramp and slightly more gental closing ramp of the slider super 60 cam.

When you say the lobe is different, do you mean less abrupt so the roller follows the cam properly? If so, would you happen to have a side-by-side picture of both cams, or am I asking too much?:o

[turbovanman²]

An edited version of post 1.
No mention of shape of the lobe or the steep opening ramp and slightly more gental closing ramp of the slider super 60 cam.

When you say the lobe is different, do you mean less abrupt so the roller follows the cam properly? If so, would you happen to have a side-by-side picture of both cams, or am I asking too much?:o


Hahaha, well of course its different, its a roller cam, you can't run a slider profile with a roller. I really can't offer any more info than that. Its a ROLLER cam with the S60 specs. I honestly don't understand the confusion, :confused:

Sorry, no pics as I don't have any made and due to the nature of TM'ers, I won't until I get paid, no offence, ;)

[87glhs232]

I think I just found the cam for my new 2.2 build for my 'S. Should make that 'S car go! :p Sorry, sorry....I couldn't resist.

[John B]

When you say the lobe is different, do you mean less abrupt so the roller follows the cam properly?

An exaggeration for example would be that a flat follower cam has steep ramps and a sharp peak whereas a roller has rounded egg shaped lobes. Placed side by side, roller and slider cams with identical timing will look very different just at a glance.

[John B]

I honestly don't understand the confusion, :confused:



I'm just easily confused. No worries; if it's a S60 spec roller, I'm happy.:thumb:

[turbovanman²]

I'm just easily confused. No worries; if it's a S60 spec roller, I'm happy.:thumb:


For the millionth time, yes, :confused: :nod:

Now we need 4 or more people and its a go.

[87glhs232]

How many are left at the discount price? And is any cam a core...assuming it's not damaged beyond repair?

[John B]

I don't want to speak out of place for Simon, but I'm pretty sure it would have to be a good roller cam for a core. Not a slider. Jump in, with you we need just three more!

[moparzrule]

I would think it would have to be roller.

I have a question, if I send an 88' roller cam would it still be off 4 degrees to put it on a round tooth pulley? If so I want to make sure to send you an 89+ cam, but are you making sure they don't get mixed up?

[John B]

I would think it would have to be roller.

are you making sure they don't get mixed up?

I don't know if the original was for round or square tooth, but if they duplicate the timing using the key way as the index it will be the same as the original.

[turbovanman²]

How many are left at the discount price? And is any cam a core...assuming it's not damaged beyond repair?

I would need a 89 and up roller cam, but I can ask if he wants an 88 roller cam as he checks each one.

I can have as many as I want made, but 6 is the minimum so hop on board, :nod:


I would think it would have to be roller.

I have a question, if I send an 88' roller cam would it still be off 4 degrees to put it on a round tooth pulley? If so I want to make sure to send you an 89+ cam, but are you making sure they don't get mixed up?

They will be based off 89 roller cores so the standard 4 deg rule applies if using on a square tooth engine.
He won't be using your core, he has them but its needed for future use. I will ask him if he wants the 88 or 89 cores.

Did you want it ground on a 88 core?

[moparzrule]

No I want an 89+. But I have an 88 turbo roller or a 90 TBI roller to send, would rather keep the tbi roller though, my setup seems to like it more.

[turbovanman²]

Ok....

[87glhs232]

I would need a 89 and up roller cam, but I can ask if he wants an 88 roller cam as he checks each one.

I can have as many as I want made, but 6 is the minimum so hop on board, :nod:

What I was getting at is if there is almost enough to do the minimum 6 deal I'll hop an board. However if we're looking at a couple months wait on that deal then I'll pay the one off price. Just wanted to know what to budget for. ;) And when you say you can have them made pretty quick approx. how long are you talking?

[turbovanman²]

What I was getting at is if there is almost enough to do the minimum 6 deal I'll hop an board. However if we're looking at a couple months wait on that deal then I'll pay the one off price. Just wanted to know what to budget for. ;) And when you say you can have them made pretty quick approx. how long are you talking?

Unfortunatley, I don't know how long it will take to get 6 takers so it could be months, so that call on waiting or getting one now is up to you.

[denviola]

Add me to the list if you are doing 6+, have '89 roller core to send.
Thanks!
Denny

[turbovanman²]

Add me to the list if you are doing 6+, have '89 roller core to send.
Thanks!
Denny


So I am assuming regrind?

[denviola]

So I am assuming regrind?

Regrind, yes. Thanks!

[sdac guy]

I don't know if the original was for round or square tooth, but if they duplicate the timing using the key way as the index it will be the same as the original. The Super 60 package was originally designed and tested on a non-common block motor (Dave Z's GLHT). So it was certainly designed for a square tooth sprocket.

BUT no matter what sprocket is used with the regrind, for proper performance, it will still need to be centerlined when installed. It's been over 10 years since I installed and centerlined mine, and I can't recall the proper centerline for it (either 110 or 114 ???, I think 114).

Barry

[John B]

So I am assuming regrind? New billet for me :nod:

[John B]

I have an 88 turbo roller or a 90 TBI roller to send, would rather keep the tbi roller

The 88 turbo is a pretty rare cam, TBI's are commonplace. I'd keep the 88.:)

[John B]

Related subject: have any roller followers been determined to be better than others? Is original Mopar best? Pioneer?

[moparzrule]

The 88 turbo is a pretty rare cam, TBI's are commonplace. I'd keep the 88.:)

I'm buying an 89 turbo roller off a friend, so I'm gonna run that and find out whether I like the turbo or TBI cam better and then send the one I don't like as much.

[moparzrule]

Related subject: have any roller followers been determined to be better than others? Is original Mopar best? Pioneer?

I never had any problems with the stockers. I ran an 88 turbo roller cam in my old 87 daytona, a G headed 2.2 setup which liked to rev to 6700 RPM.

[John B]

Yes, but that is .430" lift. At .499" there is going to be a lot more bearing load.

[moparzrule]

I tried a taft S2 once, 470/450 lift, same RPM 6700 no issues. I was running 061 springs so they also had tons of open pressure.
Edit- I used the same rockers/followers for both cams.

[John B]

I'm using the F2 @ .467" and Compcam springs. All is well so far. :hail:

[moparzrule]

But with a 2.5 I bet you really don't turn much over 6000 RPM. With my 2.2 I was spinning 6700.

[John B]

But with a 2.5 I bet you really don't turn much over 6000 RPM.

Quite true.:o

[1FastCSX289]

Ive got a couple people interested in my rims for sale. If they go, I will sign up for a re-grind.

[turbovanman²]

I have had no isssues with stock or aftermarket so its a crap shoot.

With Sean and maybe Josh, thats 5 people, :thumb:

[DodgeZ]

can I get a discount?

[turbovanman²]

can I get a discount?

If you buy in with the 6 or more, yeah, the prices are posted, ;)

[87glhs232]

If Sean is in and Kevin jumps aboard , then yeah...I'm in. I just need to come up with a core. Yes...I'll want a regrind.
And the springs that you sell Simon, are they conical or ?? Do you also have PT lifters?

[turbovanman²]

If Sean is in and Kevin jumps aboard , then yeah...I'm in. I just need to come up with a core. Yes...I'll want a regrind.
And the springs that you sell Simon, are they conical or ?? Do you also have PT lifters?

Ok, well just let me know.

They are just regular springs. Your better off just getting the hi po lifters from Dodge, there cheap- P5007440 and you'll need two packs.

[87glhs232]

Your better off just getting the hi po lifters from Dodge, there cheap- P5007440 and you'll need two packs.

Do those need the shims I've been reading about?

[turbovanman²]

Do those need the shims I've been reading about?

Yeah, you'll need shims to run the PT lifters, if you run the billet cam, only one shim or non at all.

[87glhs232]

Yeah, you'll need shims to run the PT lifters, if you run the billet cam, only one shim or non at all.
K, thanks!

[moparzrule]

Hey simon, forgot to ask, what will shipping be or is that price shipped?

[turbovanman²]

Hey simon, forgot to ask, what will shipping be or is that price shipped?

Not sure what shipping would be, I would guess around $15. There not that big.

Well were getting closer, we have 3 confirmed, 2 maybes so its close, ;)

[moparzrule]

Cool. I picked up a shipping tube from USPS, should work perfect for a cam.

[The Pope]

The regrinds aren't going to fit the PT lifters, they would have to be billets. One thing I didn't like about the s60 is the lobe sepperation. Cam you add a couple degrees and fix the design? Just 2 degree's would be sweet. Running the nice 26995 Comp springs? Did you run a valve open indicator or did you just change blanks? The slider lobes are a lot steeper than the rollers to get the same duration. Wondered when this was actually going to happen, good move Simon.

[John B]

Just 2 degree's would be sweet

I'm quite happy with the original timing, but just for discussion's sake, why would you change the LSA? It's already a bit wide for a competition only cam.

[moparzrule]

Why can't you run PT lifters with a regrind???

[John B]

The shims required would push it too far out of the lifter well and expose the oil groove. No oil pressure.:eek:

[moparzrule]

What about with FWD's cams? Same thing?

[John B]

Afraid so unless you order a new billet cam with a stock base circle. I found this out the hard way on a Taft S1 which is only .450 lift. The F2 I'm using now is a regrind so I use stock lifters and .050" shim. The stock lifters work fine.

[moparzrule]

This really sucks. Now I'm not sure about this cam, I really want to run PT lifters, and I don't have the money right now for a billet. How many shims do I need with the stock lifters?
Just out of curiosity, Simon would the billets here go off the stock base circle and be able to run with no shims or PT lifters with the normal shims?

[John B]

With the stock base circle you would use the same ammount of shim with the PT lifters as for a stock cam. To use less shim you would need to have a larger than stock base circle. For me, I would prefer a stock base circle to maintain the original valve train geometry. I wouldn't let the PT lifter be a show stopper; I've used PTs and stock and see no difference in performance.

[moparzrule]

I understand that, I was asking simon if his billets will be stock base circle. And I was also wondering how many shims stock lifters require with these regrind cams.

[John B]

We can kinda sorta guesstimate (yeah, I'm from the south...). A .450" lift (S1)takes a .041" shim, .467" lift (F2)takes .050" shim, so .499" (S60) should take somewhere around .060" shim. I guess. Sorta.:p I'm not sure how this works. An alternative is lash caps which I used to keep the PT lifters with my S1. The thinnest I found were .050", but due to the 1.66/1 rocker ratio, they had the effect of about .085" under the lifter, so I ended up with about .035" shim under the lifter. Whew! My head hurts. Lash caps add weight so I don't really like that approach (and they are not cheap!).

Before the subject drifts away, how much preload should there be between the cam lobe and the follower with the valve closed?:confused2:

[turbovanman²]

Why can't you run PT lifters with a regrind???

The PT lifter is shorter, so with a stock cam, you need to run 2 shims to maintain some geometery. Regrinds, IE Tafts, require one more shim and they will work, but thats it. I have done it and 3 shims is doable.


This really sucks. Now I'm not sure about this cam, I really want to run PT lifters, and I don't have the money right now for a billet. How many shims do I need with the stock lifters?
Just out of curiosity, Simon would the billets here go off the stock base circle and be able to run with no shims or PT lifters with the normal shims?

The billets are the same as a stock cam so they not undersized so to speak. You would need 2 shims, the same as a stock cam.




Before the subject drifts away, how much preload should there be between the cam lobe and the follower with the valve closed?:confused2:

Not sure, my rule of thumb, which hasn't let me down, is I lay the cam on top of the valve train, if the cam sits aprox a .25cent thickness of room between the cam and bearing journals, your fine. This is what stock is.

[moparzrule]

The PT lifter is shorter, so with a stock cam, you need to run 2 shims to maintain some geometery. Regrinds, IE Tafts, require one more shim and they will work, but thats it. I have done it and 3 shims is doable.
.

So 3 shims will work with your cams simon?

[turbovanman²]

So 3 shims will work with your cams simon?

I will double check with him and ask how many shims it will take if using stock lifters.

[Turbodave]

We can kinda sorta guesstimate (yeah, I'm from the south...). A .450" lift (S1)takes a .041" shim, .467" lift (F2)takes .050" shim, so .499" (S60) should take somewhere around .060" shim. I guess. Sorta.:p I'm not sure how this works. An alternative is lash caps which I used to keep the PT lifters with my S1. The thinnest I found were .050", but due to the 1.66/1 rocker ratio, they had the effect of about .085" under the lifter, so I ended up with about .035" shim under the lifter. Whew! My head hurts. Lash caps add weight so I don't really like that approach (and they are not cheap!).

Before the subject drifts away, how much preload should there be between the cam lobe and the follower with the valve closed?:confused2:

John, what about a taller valve? I've got a set of MP big valves that are +1mm longer.

1mm is approx .039" x 1.66 = .065" So maybe a PT lifter with no shim and my taller valves would work in this situation?

[turbovanman²]

John, what about a taller valve? I've got a set of MP big valves that are +1mm longer.

1mm is approx .039" x 1.66 = .065" So maybe a PT lifter with no shim and my taller valves would work in this situation?

I've posted that before. I used swirl valves in a G-head and needed no shims, ;)

[moparzrule]

Or what about Swirl valves in a G head? They are about 2mm longer, you would have to shim the valve springs though to get proper seat pressure.

[moparzrule]

Haha simon you beat me to it LOL.

[moparzrule]

So with the regrind, and swirl valves in a G head, you would still need 1 shim under the PT lifter correct?

[turbovanman²]

Ok, he won't know until he's ground one but he's sure it will be only one shim.

So, if using a PT lifters, a regrind cam, swirl valves in a G-head, worse case is 2 shims, and remember, 3 will work.

[moparzrule]

At this point I'm not sure whether I'll be using my G head or Swirl. I'm porting my own swirl head, depending on how well it comes out is whether I'll run it or not. But I do have a set of really nice turbo swirl valves I just took out of a low mileage head, doesn't even look like they need cut.
But as long as 3 shims is still good with the PT's, looks like it doesn't matter.

[John B]

Or what about Swirl valves in a G head? They are about 2mm longer, you would have to shim the valve springs though to get proper seat pressure. Great idea! I wouldn't have thought of that. I have a swirl though, so I'll go with billet.

[glhs727]

we are currently testing a new lifter. These are almost identical to the stock lifter but are approx. 1mm longer so if you are using a regrind that requires shims, this will go in without having to use a shim. it has a large bleed hole on the top, and can withstand a lot more abuse and rpm than our other lifters. We have tried them on our drag car, w/o issue, but before we release them for sale, I'd like to try them in a couple of road race applications. If you know anyone running one of our regrinds and they have a motor that easily spins past 7K, we would like to talk to them.
Later,
Cindy

[turbovanman²]

we are currently testing a new lifter. These are almost identical to the stock lifter but are approx. 1mm longer so if you are using a regrind that requires shims, this will go in without having to use a shim. it has a large bleed hole on the top, and can withstand a lot more abuse and rpm than our other lifters. We have tried them on our drag car, w/o issue, but before we release them for sale, I'd like to try them in a couple of road race applications. If you know anyone running one of our regrinds and they have a motor that easily spins past 7K, we would like to talk to them.
Later,
Cindy

Way to go Cindy, :amen:

[turbovanman²]

Ok guys, last call, I want this cleaned up in a few weeks as I am leaving the TM scene.

[87glhs232]

WTF???:confused::confused2:

[turbovanman²]

WTF???:confused::confused2:


Nevermind, long story but I won't be around much anymore, need to refocus my life, ;)

[87glhs232]

Nevermind, long story but I won't be around much anymore, need to refocus my life, ;)

:mecry: Well that's too bad for us.....good for you I hope.

[moparzrule]

If you are leaving I might not buy one, if something goes wrong with the cam are you gonna be there to back it up and go back to the machine shop? It has me worried.

[turbovanman²]

:mecry: Well that's too bad for us.....good for you I hope.

I'll still be around, just not 24 hours a day, :lol:


If you are leaving I might not buy one, if something goes wrong with the cam are you gonna be there to back it up and go back to the machine shop? It has me worried.


See above and let me know so I can alter the tally.

[The Pope]

I have heard it brought up and the PT described as a bleed hole lifter like maybe a stock lifter that's drilled. A bleed hole will run soft untill high RPM, like a Roads lifter making the cam feel smaller for more low RPM power. Then you wind up and get full lift out of the cam. That is a bleed lifter that works off of volume. Still it isn't that bad of an idea, with a bigger cam like the F4 a bleed may work great. The PT Neon lifter is not a bleed hole, it's a check valved hole. The check valve lets air through oil against it closes it. So as air trapped in them bubbles up to the top the valve opens and releases it. Neither a PT or a bleed hole lifter will trap air in the lifter making it spongy, but the bleed hole will not hold pressure at idle as well. The PT and the 2.2 lifter are the same basically on the tip end. Why can't custom lifters be made that use the Neon valved tip with a 2.2 body? Why would anyone pay a bunch of money for a cam grind on a bent old POS cam core? I make regrinds of the 767 cam, but they cost $25. So in that case it doesn't matter. But regrinding a stressed old core? Like spending over $1,000 porting a wasted old 782 instead of paying $170 more for a brand new head. I wonder sometimes if many TDers are wanting to build bombs instead of engines, many of the roller cores are 20 years old folks.

[The Pope]

I'll still be around, just not 24 hours a day, :lol:


OMG over 14,600 posts, this isn't everquest lol. Better unplug before you go blind :yuck:

[John B]

I am leaving the TM scene.

I'm truly sorry to hear that! I hope the VB issue wasn't a contributing factor:o

[turbovanman²]

I'm truly sorry to hear that! I hope the VB issue wasn't a contributing factor:o

Yes, its all your fault, b*astard, :lol:

[turbovanman²]

Ok, Matt bailed so down to 2 for sure, 4 maybe so come on guys, lets make this happen.

[moparzrule]

Put me down as a maybe, and let me know if you get another person.

[turbovanman²]

Put me down as a maybe, and let me know if you get another person.

Ok.......

[John B]

I'm in even at the one-off billet price. Let me know!

[turbovanman²]

I'm in even at the one-off billet price. Let me know!

Its up to you on how long you want to wait. Its your call, LMK. :nod:

[John B]

I'm ready now! Good weather is coming!! PM me the balance and I'll PP it ASAP. I'll catch up on the postage cost when you know how much and you're ready to mail. Thanks Simon! :clap:

[turbovanman²]

I'm ready now! Good weather is coming!! PM me the balance and I'll PP it ASAP. I'll catch up on the postage cost when you know how much and you're ready to mail. Thanks Simon! :clap:

Ok, I'll get him to make one now. I'll PM you the difference when I ship it off. PM me your address please.

[John B]

Done :thumb:

[87glhs232]

So this will be the first cam? I eagerly await results.

[turbovanman²]

So this will be the first cam? I eagerly await results.

Yes, so now we need another person if everyone wants the lower price. Didn't think it would be this hard, :(

[Sloride]

indeed, this has lasted long enough for me to scrounge up enough dough for a new billet

[moparzrule]

^does that make six? If so I guess I will go on a regrind.

[Sloride]

^i believe it does....:)

[moparzrule]

Yeah I looked back and saw simons list and you weren't on it yet. Now we just have to ge the other guys that said maybe to go.

[4cefedomni]

hey simon put me down for a regrind and i'll drop off the money and a core next time i'm out your way. do you think this will work with your springs and a set of solid lifters? or will the solid lifters put the lift out of the range of those springs?

[turbovanman²]

hey simon put me down for a regrind and i'll drop off the money and a core next time i'm out your way. do you think this will work with your springs and a set of solid lifters? or will the solid lifters put the lift out of the range of those springs?


I don't think the lifters will alter anything, just make sure to adjust them properly.

[moparzrule]

So simon we got atleast 6 now? Just give me an address to send the core, and paypal addy for the $.

[turbovanman²]

Ok, going to PM each of you and get this going. We have 5 for sure, with a possible of 7.

The list so far-


1) Moparzrule-regrind-maybe!
2) John B-new billet and springs.
3) Denny-regrind.
4) Sean-regrind if funds permit.
5) Don-regrind.
6) Ryan-Sloride-new billet.

[moparzrule]

Aren't you getting one Simon??? Do you definitely have 6 now?

I'm a definite now, I sent you the core cam yesterday!

[turbovanman²]

Aren't you getting one Simon??? Do you definitely have 6 now?

I'm a definite now, I sent you the core cam yesterday!

What am I going to run it in? ;) I am not that good that I can make it work in both my TIII's. :nod:

[moparzrule]

Not that I'm complaining, but why are you even offering this then?

[turbovanman²]

Not that I'm complaining, but why are you even offering this then?

Because I am a vendor and am trying to make spare cash to pay for things, ;)

[John B]

And I pestered him a bit...:p

[John B]

What am I going to run it in? ;) I am not that good that I can make it work in both my TIII's. :nod: It's not the right timing/lift for a 16V anyway, even if you could make it fit.:nod:

[moparzrule]

It's not the right timing/lift for a 16V anyway, even if you could make it fit.:nod:

Hehe, yeah .499 lift is a bit much for a 16V LOL.

[moparzrule]

Because I am a vendor and am trying to make spare cash to pay for things, ;)

Thats cool, was just wondering. Thanks

[turbovanman²]

OK, update on payments-

Denny-pending
Slo60-Paid
Don-Paid
Matt-paid
John-Paid
and I am getting one done to keep on hand.

Looks like I can get them started next week. :amen:

Ok, due to Denny's circumstance, I am getting them made. I'll be dropping off the money on Tuesday, March 4th and get them made.

Thanks guys. :D

[John B]

I believe this cam will be the "magic bullet" for my combo. Thanks again Simon for making it happen! :clap:

[turbovanman²]

I believe this cam will be the "magic bullet" for my combo. Thanks again Simon for making it happen! :clap:


Thanks for giving me a kick in the arse, :eyebrows:

[Sloride]

*boots arse*
check your pm box plz :D



(if one was good, two must be better :evil: )

[turbovanman²]

*boots arse*
check your pm box plz :D



(if one was good, two must be better :evil: )


OUCH, :o

I'll get to the Post Office tomorrow, to busy today.

[turbovanman²]

See update above. :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

Cams are ordered, he said I got him at a bad time-he just got a huge Cummings IP cam order but 1.5-2 weeks and there done. In order to get the deal, I had to buy one myself as a few guys changed there minds or ran out of funds. So I will update when I pick them up, then I will be shipping them out. :nod:

Denny, hope things are ok also.

****Note again, these are based on the Super60 slider cam so if using on a round tooth setup, you will need to degree them**********

[moparzrule]

Why can't he make it for the round tooth? Is it that hard to change? I think the majority if ot all of us have the round tooth sprocket.

[turbovanman²]

Why can't he make it for the round tooth? Is it that hard to change? I think the majority if ot all of us have the round tooth sprocket.

I'll ask him. How much does the timing need to changed, I know its 4 deg but which way? I always forget.

[moparzrule]

Haha I never remember either.
But here's my thoughts. My timing gear goes up to 8 degrees each way. So whichever way it is off, I'll only have 4 extra degree's of play. I don't really want to be limited to only 4 degree's of travel while having 12 degree's the other way.

[MiniMopar]

Running a round tooth cam with a square tooth sprocket retards the cam. I can never remember if its 4 or 6 degrees.

[moparzrule]

I've heard 4 degree's over and over again. It's probably different for every cam though.

[turbovanman²]

Running a round tooth cam with a square tooth sprocket retards the cam. I can never remember if its 4 or 6 degrees.

2 deg's won't matter. Ok, so square tooth cam with a round tooth sprocket will be 4 deg advanced. So he'll need to retard the cam centerline 4 deg.

[WickedShelby88]

Will these cams be available again in the future?

[turbovanman²]

Will these cams be available again in the future?

There always available. Pricing varies, but if you want one now, you can still get in on the deal as he is doing them soon. LMK.

[John B]

There always available

What!!? I thought these were limited edition, serial numbered collectables with a Simon Certificate of Authenticity! There goes my retirement plan...:p

[turbovanman²]

What!!? I thought these were limited edition, serial numbered collectables with a Simon Certificate of Authenticity! There goes my retirement plan...:p

Just for you, I'll type up a cheesy foil typed certificate with #1 stamped on it, :lol: :clap:

[John B]

Thanks, I feel much better now.

[turbovanman²]

He will be starting them tomorrow or Monday, so if you want one, contact me today or tomorrow otherwise the price goes back up.

[moparzrule]

Sweeet. Looks like I'll be getting it just in time, although I might break my fresh engine in with the stock cam first. Get a baseline, then add the cam and see what difference it makes.

[turbovanman²]

Sweeet. Looks like I'll be getting it just in time, although I might break my fresh engine in with the stock cam first. Get a baseline, then add the cam and see what difference it makes.

I would do that, eliminate variables and see how much of a difference it will make, :clap:

[moparzrule]

Are the cams done yet Simon?

[turbovanman²]

No, I will make sure they are done this week. I am back at work on Tuesday.

[moparzrule]

No big deal really, I'm not even close to ready for it since I'm gonna use a stock cam at first + the engine isn't even done getting built yet. I plan to finish assembling the shortblock today though.

[turbovanman²]

No big deal really, I'm not even close to ready for it since I'm gonna use a stock cam at first + the engine isn't even done getting built yet. I plan to finish assembling the shortblock today though.

Nice, I love fresh engines, :clap:

I am back at work tomorrow so I'll call him then.

[moparzrule]

Fresh engines with Wiseco piston's, even better!!! :partywoot:

[WickedShelby88]

Hey Simon what ever happened to the 3.0 cams? My dad says hes game.

[turbovanman²]

Hey Simon what ever happened to the 3.0 cams? My dad says hes game.

Sorry, I thought I wrote back, I must get 10-15 PM's a day sometimes.

I can get them anytime you want. PM me and we'll chat, :nod:

[WickedShelby88]

Sweet. I will definitely be up for an S60 down the road as well, but I'm going to hold off until my other parts are up to snuff.

Thanks, Joseph

[turbovanman²]

Ok guys, orders are in, so if you want anymore, there more money.

He's had some big orders, machine broke, blah blah blah so they will be done early next week and shipped out Friday or Sat.

Can you guys do me a favour, email me your addys to-

Biker69@telus.net


Thanks.

[moparzrule]

Can you guys do me a favour, email me your addys to-

Biker69@telus.net


Thanks.

Will do.

[4cefedomni]

hey simon is mine ready to pick up? and did you happen to get in a set of springs for me?

[turbovanman²]

hey simon is mine ready to pick up? and did you happen to get in a set of springs for me?

Yes, its here, being sick I haven't had chance to mail them out yet. I can have the springs here too. Call me.

[4cefedomni]

ok order me some springs and i'll be there to pick them up asap.

[89ShelbyGuy]

Hey simon, i will take one of those regrinds if your still offering them, i have a core i can send you, just need an address, i will also be in need of those wires we talked earlier about. lmk. i know your sick, not it a real rush.

Tom

[turbovanman²]

Hey simon, i will take one of those regrinds if your still offering them, i have a core i can send you, just need an address, i will also be in need of those wires we talked earlier about. lmk. i know your sick, not it a real rush.

Tom

They will always be for sale but of course, price depends on current orders. I might have one from this batch, just need to find out if he still wants it.

[turbovanman²]

Today, Matts, John's and Slo-rides will be going out. Need to get a few more box's and I can send out Denny's and Gasketmasters. :amen:

[1984rampage]

Damn, I cant wait to here feedback about these.

[moparzrule]

I won't be running mine for atleast 2 months probably......:(

[Sloride]

Today, Matts, John's and Slo-rides will be going out. Need to get a few more box's and I can send out Denny's and Gasketmasters. :amen:



Cool.

I suppose i need to get a dummy lifter to centreline that -----.....

its going into my BVH that flows around 190 to 200 cfm @ .500 :)
fresh wisecos .020 (2.5l)
57 trim t4/ t3 .63
tu cast manifold (soon to be installed)
sparco 1080 (soon to be installed)

methinks ill be needing a cal soon......

[89ShelbyGuy]

They will always be for sale but of course, price depends on current orders. I might have one from this batch, just need to find out if he still wants it.


Hey simon, i have money on hand, just let me know.

tom

[GLHS60]

I just came across this thread and found it interesting as I have been running a S60 cam since 1997 and it's still not worn out!! Anyway a couple of years ago I was running an 88 TBI Omni for a winter car and decided to pull the cam and save it for a future project. As one who likes to try things I decided to install a 1986 Turbo slider cam with the 88 roller followers just because your not supposed to. The car ran great off the line but was all done by about 2500 rpm so I reasoned the cam timing was advanced but everything was right on. So I retarted it a full tooth and it ran proprly. I figured the contact point on the roller was different than the slider causing the 9/18 degree difference. I ran it for almost a full year with the slider cam, roller followers and timing off one full tooth and no problems. I heard that running roller followers on a slider cam would cause the followers to fly off and the cam to wear out right away but in this instance it was fine. This thread got me thinking if the roller cam is reground on a slider profile could this affect the cam centerline somehow??
Thanks
Randy

[turbovanman²]

So your running a slider S60 with roller rockers?

If your running slider S60 everything, your one of the lucky ones, :thumb:

Nope, the grind is put on a roller cam so the centerline isn't changed. I would still check it though.

[GLHS60]

Super 60 with sliders. Must be my secret cam lube and using a G head that let it live.
Now that I think about it, and as you pointed out, regrinding a roller cam for roller followers the center line shouldn't really change.
Thanks
Randy

[turbovanman²]

Super 60 with sliders. Must be my secret cam lube and using a G head that let it live.
Now that I think about it, and as you pointed out, regrinding a roller cam for roller followers the center line shouldn't really change.
Thanks
Randy

I've never used a slider S60 but all I've heard is they go flat, some faster than others, :(
At least this way, they'll NEVER go flat, :nod:

[turbovanman²]

Sorry guys, tried to get them out last week and had an issue at the PO, I don't know why I am having an issue. I will be getting them out tomorrow, Wednesday. I apologize profusely, :(

[John B]

I've never used a slider S60 but all I've heard is they go flat, some faster than others, :(
At least this way, they'll NEVER go flat, :nod:

We hope. :amen:

[turbovanman²]

Ok, it worked today so cams are gone. :D

[Sloride]

received mine today, looks good. :)

[turbovanman²]

received mine today, looks good. :)

Sweet, I assume it made it in one piece? :confused:

[Sloride]

indeed it did, im just breaking in my motor before I go and install it.... I just noticed that there is a slight wear area @ the middle cap circle, im assuming its from being spun on the machine?

[turbovanman²]

indeed it did, im just breaking in my motor before I go and install it.... I just noticed that there is a slight wear area @ the middle cap circle, im assuming its from being spun on the machine?

Can you take a pic?

[moparzrule]

Got mine today, looks good. It'll be awhile until I run it though.

[turbovanman²]

I never looked at them really.

I also sent one to Chris to dyno, :thumb:

[denviola]

Picked up cam at Post office on Saturday, looks good.
Thanks.
Denny

[John B]

received mine today, looks good. :)

What! No road tests yet!!?:eyebrows:

[John B]

Picked up cam at Post office on Saturday, looks good.
Thanks.
Denny

What! No road tests yet!!? :eyebrows:

[John B]

I never looked at them really.



Right! And you only read the articles in Hustler...:p

[turbovanman²]

Right! And you only read the articles in Hustler...:p

Shhhh, don't give out my secret, :amen:

[John B]

Got mine today! Thanks!:)

[JuXsA]

interested in hearing how the new cams work... .499 lift sounds freaking awesome!!!

[Sloride]

Can you take a pic?

Sent to your email

[turbovanman²]

Can you feel anything?

Can you email me those pics to "bblackdogg69@hotmail.com" please.

[Sloride]

Can you feel anything?

Can you email me those pics to "bblackdogg69@hotmail.com" please.

i can feel the 'line' (right-side line) with my fingernail.



pictures sent....:)

[turbovanman²]

Ok, I will send them to the grinder and let you know asap whats going on. Sorry about that.

[Sloride]

don't worry, its the latest on a long list of strange ---- that happens when i try to make my car faster.... :ballchain:

[Anonymous_User]

What! No road tests yet!!? :eyebrows:

No road tests yet??!!??

[JuXsA]

I want to hear about this. I may want to buy one if they do well.

[marcandre1216]

hi there im new to this forum i just got refered this link since i was looking for a slider s60!! but the roller seem pretty interesting!! how u guys proceed for payment and shipping address? btw i live in quebec , canada! i do have a taff s2 whit spring kit and washer under the lifter since its a regrind cam...do u think 1 washer and those spring do the job?i think yeah but i want other opinion!

[turbovanman²]

Hey welcome.

Not sure on the shims yet as no one has run one with PT lifters yet. I would guess you would need 2 shims and one shim at the very least.

You can PM me your info and I can set you up.

Simon

[John B]

No road tests yet??!!??

Waiting for springs.

[turbovanman²]

Waiting for springs.

I could have sold you some, ;)

[JuXsA]

any road tests yet? Hey Simon, have you installed on eyet and if so what can you tell about it?

[turbovanman²]

any road tests yet? Hey Simon, have you installed on eyet and if so what can you tell about it?

No one has installed one yet as far as I know. I don't have an 8 valve car to test one with. If someone doesn't hurry up, I might use Whore's VNT for a guinea pig.

[John B]

I could have sold you some, ;)


These are already paid for. Thanks though.

[omni_840]

Are these still availabe?

[turbovanman²]

Are these still availabe?

There always available, :nod:

[omni_840]

There always available, :nod:

Cool, do you have any more people in line for a group buy?

[turbovanman²]

Cool, do you have any more people in line for a group buy?

Not at this point, just being made up on demand. You can wait if you want but it could be a long time, :(

[John B]

Any word on dyno tests?

[turbovanman²]

Any word on dyno tests?

See above, post 206 ;)

[moparzrule]

Right now I'm tuning my engine with the stock cam yet. Only have 120 miles on the rebuild. In a week or 2 I'll throw in the S60 just to see what happens and get an initial opinion up here.
Tonight I turned it up to 15 PSI (I was only running like 7 PSI for the first 100 miles), with the stock cam I did a 3rd gear pull to 6700 and it was still pulling like crazy. Didn't want to take it to extreme RPM's with such a fresh rebuild. If this S60 gives me more top end, I feel this will be a 7500 RPM setup.

[1984rampage]

Anyone running this cam yet?

[tvanlant]

Matt, would you hurry up and try that cam already? :p

[moparzrule]

Hehe, having oil pressure issues that need resolved first! The relief spring in the oil pump took a dump or something, won't get any more than 45 PSI oil pressure. The Mopar spring kit will be in tomorrow at the dealer, after that gets installed I can install that cam. Hoping to do that all this weekend actually.

[moparzrule]

OK installed the cam today. First impression, it's a decent cam. But, no extensive tuning done yet I have to tweak the calibration for it and also the cam is installed straight up right now so I haven't touched cam timing yet either.
This is installed in a ported +1mm G headed 2.2L, with a large hybrid turbo at 18 PSI currently.

Slight loss in low end power, most noticeable from idle-2000 RPM, not bad, just noticeable. Lost 2'' vacuum at idle, not bad. Does not really lope at all, still has pretty smooth idle. At 4000 RPM on the highway the engine seems smoother, it's liking the higher rev's. Not extensive high RPM testing only took it to 6500 RPM for now. Lost about 200 RPM turbo spoolup, again not bad actually less than expected.
Here again some cam timing tweaks could fix any if not all these things, along with some adjustments in the cal.
Overall so far I'm happy with the purchase. Right now, seat of the pants dyno is saying maybe 10-15 WHP at 18 PSI. The turbo was spiking to 20 for a few seconds, and it definitely pulled harder at 20 then when it settled down to 18. So, maybe this cam likes big boost? Which is good because I plan to do that.
Simon do you know the specs of duration at .050''? The comp cams S60 is 218 duration, what are these?

[turbovanman²]

OK installed the cam today. First impression, it's a decent cam. But, no extensive tuning done yet I have to tweak the calibration for it and also the cam is installed straight up right now so I haven't touched cam timing yet either.
This is installed in a ported +1mm G headed 2.2L, with a large hybrid turbo at 18 PSI currently.

Slight loss in low end power, most noticeable from idle-2000 RPM, not bad, just noticeable. Lost 2'' vacuum at idle, not bad. Does not really lope at all, still has pretty smooth idle. At 4000 RPM on the highway the engine seems smoother, it's liking the higher rev's. Not extensive high RPM testing only took it to 6500 RPM for now. Lost about 200 RPM turbo spoolup, again not bad actually less than expected.
Here again some cam timing tweaks could fix any if not all these things, along with some adjustments in the cal.
Overall so far I'm happy with the purchase. Right now, seat of the pants dyno is saying maybe 10-15 WHP at 18 PSI. The turbo was spiking to 20 for a few seconds, and it definitely pulled harder at 20 then when it settled down to 18. So, maybe this cam likes big boost? Which is good because I plan to do that.
Simon do you know the specs of duration at .050''? The comp cams S60 is 218 duration, what are these?


Sweet, thats awesome to hear. Too bad you didn't get a vid/sound clip with both cams you were running.

From what I've read, the S60 loves boost. :evil:

The specs are exactly the same as the slider S60, so whatever duration you dig up for a slider, should be the same. ;)

[moparzrule]

OK, I'm just not sure is comp cams is the exact same as mopar's super 60 and I can't find duration thats not just the advertised 260 for the original mopar cam. Anybody?

[turbovanman²]

OK, I'm just not sure is comp cams is the exact same as mopar's super 60 and I can't find duration thats not just the advertised 260 for the original mopar cam. Anybody?

I can find out next week.

As for specs, I believe I read that Comp Cams made the S60 slider cam for Mopar.

[moparzrule]

I'm in no hurry to find out.

Quick question. I put 1 shim under the lifter, but not sure if it was enough. The cam lobe barely touched, I can wiggle the rocker/follower side to side a little bit (but no up and down). Is that normal? I totally forgot to check the stock cam before removal to see how tight the rockers were, and I wasn't re-installing the stocker just to find out.

[turbovanman²]

I'm in no hurry to find out.

Quick question. I put 1 shim under the lifter, but not sure if it was enough. The cam lobe barely touched, I can wiggle the rocker/follower side to side a little bit (but no up and down). Is that normal? I totally forgot to check the stock cam before removal to see how tight the rockers were, and I wasn't re-installing the stocker just to find out.


There should be some preload, I put the cam on top of the head and look at how the cam sits, it should sit a bit above the bearings.

It sounds like you should be running another shim.

[moparzrule]

Well it didn't spit a rocker at 6500, so thats good LOL. But I'll throw another shim in there just for good measure. Looks like there's no way I'm running PT lifters with this though.
Yeah I did check how far it was sitting above the cam journals, it looked close to where the stocker sat with 1 shim in there so thats why I cranked it down. It's really really close, not sure if another shim will be too much. Perhaps with the oil pressure it will pump them up more to take care of that tiny bit of slack?

[turbovanman²]

Well it didn't spit a rocker at 6500, so thats good LOL. But I'll throw another shim in there just for good measure. Looks like there's no way I'm running PT lifters with this though.
Yeah I did check how far it was sitting above the cam journals, it looked close to where the stocker sat with 1 shim in there so thats why I cranked it down. It's really really close, not sure if another shim will be too much. Perhaps with the oil pressure it will pump them up more to take care of that tiny bit of slack?

Not sure, but most of his cams run 2 shims. I ran 3 shims with the PT's, :eyebrows:

[moparzrule]

Not sure, but most of his cams run 2 shims. I ran 3 shims with the PT's, :eyebrows:

What I'm saying is I would need to run 4 shims, which can't be done. Cuz the PT's are 2 shims shorter than stockers, and if stockers need 2 shims for this cam....

I guess the PT's with 3 shims would be exactly where I'm at now with the stockers at 1 shim. So they will work, but no preload.

[turbovanman²]

What I'm saying is I would need to run 4 shims, which can't be done. Cuz the PT's are 2 shims shorter than stockers, and if stockers need 2 shims for this cam....

I guess the PT's with 3 shims would be exactly where I'm at now with the stockers at 1 shim. So they will work, but no preload.

Sorry, didn't see you were running PT's.

[moparzrule]

I'm not running PT's, I was going to though.
Thats OK, TU will be selling solid lifters soon, with the official introduction coming at the chrysler nats in Carlisle where they will be on display at the TU tent. :thumb:

[John B]

Just be sure to don't shim it so high that you unmask the oil groove on the PT lifter!

[moparzrule]

Yeah thats why I'm saying I can't run them, 4 shims is too much!

[compshadow]

Dumb question, but why do you have to run 2 shims with this cam with stock lifters? Is it
because it is a reground cam and you have to shim for the difference? I already have the
PT lifters for my new GT30 setup and am considering this cam, guess I will have to use stockers.
What about the billet cam, No shims needed with that cam with stock lifters?

[moparzrule]

Your guesses are exactly right. The reground cam requires shims to make up the difference, if you get a new billet no problems running PT lifters with the standard 2 shims.

[moparzrule]

LOL, put in the 2nd shim today, it held the valves open and has 0 compression! No start! Going back to 1 shim LOL.

[turbovanman²]

Dumb question, but why do you have to run 2 shims with this cam with stock lifters? Is it
because it is a reground cam and you have to shim for the difference? I already have the
PT lifters for my new GT30 setup and am considering this cam, guess I will have to use stockers.
What about the billet cam, No shims needed with that cam with stock lifters?

The billet cam is brand new so stock base circle, no shims needed unless running a PT lifter. Regrinds have a smaller base circle as thats how they get the new profile.


LOL, put in the 2nd shim today, it held the valves open and has 0 compression! No start! Going back to 1 shim LOL.


The lifters will be pumped up, they need bleeding down, ;)

[moparzrule]

So how do I bleed them down???

[turbovanman²]

So how do I bleed them down???

Squeeze them slowly in a vice, this will collaspe them and reset them so to speak.

[moparzrule]

Squeeze them slowly in a vice, this will collaspe them and reset them so to speak.

Cool, I'll do that. Thanks

[moparzrule]

Actually, if I just let them go overnight will they bleed down themselves?

[turbovanman²]

Actually, if I just let them go overnight will they bleed down themselves?

That is possible.

[GLHS60]

You're really on a topic that I find very interesting. Typically for maximum performance you want hydraulic lifters at zero lash or even .002 loose. It looks like that's about where you had your setup when you first installed the cam. I'm assuming if you didn't spit a rocker at 6500 RPM that you ran the engine to 6500 RPM. I'm curious if you got to run the car long enough to get a feel for how perky it was at high RPM. Now that you are giong to bleed down the lifters and add a shim to preload the valvetrain I am curious as to how it feels at high RPM now. Please report back if it feels any less perky with the additional preload as that is the normal tendancy with more preload. This is something I have been wanting to experiment with for a while now and here you are doing it for me!! For what it's worth I have been running my Super 60 slider cam now for 11 years and it's still not worn out.
THANKS!!
Randy



Well it didn't spit a rocker at 6500, so thats good LOL. But I'll throw another shim in there just for good measure. Looks like there's no way I'm running PT lifters with this though.
Yeah I did check how far it was sitting above the cam journals, it looked close to where the stocker sat with 1 shim in there so thats why I cranked it down. It's really really close, not sure if another shim will be too much. Perhaps with the oil pressure it will pump them up more to take care of that tiny bit of slack?

[John B]

When the engine warms up does lash decrease or increase? IOW if I set the hydraulic adjusters to .001" clearance cold, will it become less or more at operating temp?

[moparzrule]

You're really on a topic that I find very interesting. Typically for maximum performance you want hydraulic lifters at zero lash or even .002 loose. It looks like that's about where you had your setup when you first installed the cam. I'm assuming if you didn't spit a rocker at 6500 RPM that you ran the engine to 6500 RPM. I'm curious if you got to run the car long enough to get a feel for how perky it was at high RPM. Now that you are giong to bleed down the lifters and add a shim to preload the valvetrain I am curious as to how it feels at high RPM now. Please report back if it feels any less perky with the additional preload as that is the normal tendancy with more preload. This is something I have been wanting to experiment with for a while now and here you are doing it for me!! For what it's worth I have been running my Super 60 slider cam now for 11 years and it's still not worn out.
THANKS!!
Randy


Hmm, I will let you know!

[turbovanman²]

For what it's worth I have been running my Super 60 slider cam now for 11 years and it's still not worn out.
THANKS!!
Randy


You'd be up there as one of the very few, :lol:

[turbovanman²]

When the engine warms up does lash decrease or increase? IOW if I set the hydraulic adjusters to .001" clearance cold, will it become less or more at operating temp?

As everything heats up, the lash gets smaller. Thats why on adjustable valvetrain, you set the exhaust larger due to the heat expansion of the hotter valve.

[moparzrule]

As everything heats up, the lash gets smaller. Thats why on adjustable valvetrain, you set the exhaust larger due to the heat expansion of the hotter valve.

I concur with that. I used to have a 273 with a solid cam, and my cummins ram also I had to adjust valves on. Intakes were .010 and exhausts were .020.

[John B]

My confusion is about the aluminum head. I know a forged valve expands (lengthens) more than a cast iron head, but it seems like an aluminum head would "grow" more than the valves and increase clearance.

[turbovanman²]

My confusion is about the aluminum head. I know a forged valve expands (lengthens) more than a cast iron head, but it seems like an aluminum head would "grow" more than the valves and increase clearance.

Well the valves grow longer so they will close up the gap. The head will also grow, closing up the gap. Thats why hydraulic lifters rock, they take up clearance and never need adjusting, :clap:

[moparzrule]

I squished the lifters in the vice, put them back in with 2 shims and it STILL held the valves open. Looks like 1 shim is it for these cams with the stock lifters, so the PT's should be able to be used with 3 shims.

[moparzrule]

OK installed the cam today. First impression, it's a decent cam. But, no extensive tuning done yet I have to tweak the calibration for it and also the cam is installed straight up right now so I haven't touched cam timing yet either.
This is installed in a ported +1mm G headed 2.2L, with a large hybrid turbo at 18 PSI currently.

Slight loss in low end power, most noticeable from idle-2000 RPM, not bad, just noticeable. Lost 2'' vacuum at idle, not bad. Does not really lope at all, still has pretty smooth idle. At 4000 RPM on the highway the engine seems smoother, it's liking the higher rev's. Not extensive high RPM testing only took it to 6500 RPM for now. Lost about 200 RPM turbo spoolup, again not bad actually less than expected.



I have new news. Found out I was actually running with the cam 1 tooth advanced! I couldn't figure out why at 6700 the engine was dying when with the stock cam the engine pulled to 7000! LOL, well I figured it out!
Soooo, with the cam properly setup I now have 14-15'' of vacuum at idle, but it still seems pretty smooth not much lope at all. Spoolup was decreased, I now don't have full boost until 4500 RPM (stock cam is 4000 RPM full boost), but when I got to 7000 RPM the engine was misfiring and carrying on. This may be in the cal, but honestly I really liked the more lower RPM power the stock cam gave because my setup was built to rev and it still does that OK with the stock cam.
I just want to point out right now that this is an unfair test for this cam. I'm running a G headed 2.2, and with this super low compression (7.4:1) I don't think this cam will be compatable. Also, with the huge plenum/short runner intake I have, the power band from idle-3500 is complete crap, nothing. It wasn't that great with the stock cam, but tolerable.
My advice, this cam will shine in a high flowing 2.5L setup. I honestly wish I would have had this cam when I was running the 2.5L because that setup could have used less low end and more top end for sure. But, a stock compression 2.2/swirl head this cam may still be OK. But it's not for me, or my setup.
Another thought is perhaps trying this cam 4 degree's advanced, wondering if this cam was indeed setup for square tooth and I have it on the round. Since one tooth is 9 degrees, potentially when I had it 1 tooth advanced it may have only been 5 degree's advanced. Now that I backed it off the tooth it's now 4 degree's retarded. I dunno, thats all speculation. But, I really need the stock cam in my setup so I've decided just to switch back. With the low compression I have, a compression test yields 130 across the board on a fresh engine (would be 150+ with a swirl head) with the stock cam. With this cam, I was only pushing 120 PSI compression with the cam 1 tooth advanced, so it was probably less than that even with it set correctly now. I suspect this is the largest part for the misfiring at high RPM's.

[sdac guy]

.... Another thought is perhaps trying this cam 4 degree's advanced, wondering if this cam was indeed setup for square tooth and I have it on the round. The slider S60 cam as sold by MP was never meant to be installed straight up on either sprocket. It must be centerlined to work as designed. According to the MP catalog, the correct centerline for the MP S60 is 112*. Neither the square nor round tooth sprocket will get you to that centerline without the use of offset cam keys.

However, if you measure the centerline of your install and it is only off by a couple of degrees, don't bother to go further. As 2 degrees either way will most likely not be noticeable either in driveability or performance.


Barry