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View Full Version : Help with Spirit Turbo Console/Gauges..



burnt_toast
12-12-2007, 02:20 AM
I'm finally going to have some free time to work on my recent project (http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f11/f54/145831-find-89-spirit-turbo-500-good.html) pick up (via turbododge), and wanted to see if yall could give me some pointers.

First off, the odometer nor the trip meter work, and the tach doesnt seem real accurate just bounces around. Speedo seems to be working, and I will gps it soon to see if its accurate.

So most importantly how do I go on about fixing the odometer and tach? Is it most likely that it a sensor disconnected at the wheels or in the actual gauge cluster? If gauge cluster, should I try to install a boost gauge while I'm at it, taking it apart?

The car has 114k mi indicated, and I found records dating up to 96k of the actual miles but don't know when the odo stopped working, is there any way I could tell by maybe dating other components or somehow seeing if the previous owner turned back the mileage reading?

This is the first thing I'd like to do before putting any major miles on her for obvious reasons.

Maintenance wise, I am also going to start tuning up by changing oil, plugs, rad flush and air filter. Then figuring out why she strays hard to the right, either alignment or new tires or likely both.. heh Any other tune-up ideas are welcome! :thumb:

Really appreciate any ideas, thanks. :)

turbovanmanČ
12-12-2007, 02:36 AM
The tach and stuff I'll leave to someone else, it could be a ground issue or just a bad cluster.

Tune-up, you need some of my wires, see sig, ;) I like Iridium plugs by NGK, they take a beating and last along time, seem to make the cars run smoother also. If its hot out there still, run a 180 thermostat and drill a 1/16" hole in the shell-this eliminates air pockets and helps with thermal shock.
I would replace the fuel filter hoses-5/16" and 1/4 are the sizes, use high pressure hose-you will have to order it and also replace the hoses in the engine compartment, use fuel injection clamps-I REPEAT, do not use regular fuel hose it will burst as its only rated to 40-50 psi, our systems can hit 100 psi.
Replacing the oxygen sensor isn't a bad idea too, use an OEM or NTK unit and be warned, if its original, its going to need lots of penetration oil and maybe some heat.
When checking the front end, put a jack stand under the ball joint area or jack it up there, this puts the suspension at the stock height and you'll find more worn items that way. I would recommend installing Poly bushings in the control arms and sway bar-www.polybushings.com or get them from FWD or TU. If the ball joints or tie rod ends are shot, use Spicer or Napa Gold, Moog is junk.

Turbodave
12-12-2007, 11:39 AM
If the speedo works and the odo/trip don't then I would suspect that the problem is in the gauge cluster. I'm not sure if the Spirit uses the same style gears as the Daytonas do, but if so, it's not an uncommon failure. There are replacement gears available, but it is more cost effective to find a good used cluster. I'm pretty sure there was a 90 Spirit being parted out in our for sale section in the last few days, may want to start there.

Not really much you can do to determine the actual mileage, the computer doesn't record that and looking at the car it's hard to make a determination between 120k miles and 150k miles etc. since so much of that is based upon how well the car was taken care of. You can do a compression and leakdown test to determine the health of the engine, but other than that I would say if it runs good don't worry about what the correct mileage is.

burnt_toast
12-13-2007, 12:50 AM
If the speedo works and the odo/trip don't then I would suspect that the problem is in the gauge cluster. I'm not sure if the Spirit uses the same style gears as the Daytonas do, but if so, it's not an uncommon failure. There are replacement gears available, but it is more cost effective to find a good used cluster. I'm pretty sure there was a 90 Spirit being parted out in our for sale section in the last few days, may want to start there.

Not really much you can do to determine the actual mileage, the computer doesn't record that and looking at the car it's hard to make a determination between 120k miles and 150k miles etc. since so much of that is based upon how well the car was taken care of. You can do a compression and leakdown test to determine the health of the engine, but other than that I would say if it runs good don't worry about what the correct mileage is.

Thank you very much! Exactly what I needed to know. I will check out FS section, and gives me something to look for at local salvage yards heh.

Will try to do compression test soon too whenever I get some new plugs. What does a leakdown test involve? And how can I check to see if the headgasket is leaking?

burnt_toast
12-13-2007, 12:51 AM
The tach and stuff I'll leave to someone else, it could be a ground issue or just a bad cluster.

Tune-up, you need some of my wires, see sig, ;) I like Iridium plugs by NGK, they take a beating and last along time, seem to make the cars run smoother also. If its hot out there still, run a 180 thermostat and drill a 1/16" hole in the shell-this eliminates air pockets and helps with thermal shock.
I would replace the fuel filter hoses-5/16" and 1/4 are the sizes, use high pressure hose-you will have to order it and also replace the hoses in the engine compartment, use fuel injection clamps-I REPEAT, do not use regular fuel hose it will burst as its only rated to 40-50 psi, our systems can hit 100 psi.
Replacing the oxygen sensor isn't a bad idea too, use an OEM or NTK unit and be warned, if its original, its going to need lots of penetration oil and maybe some heat.
When checking the front end, put a jack stand under the ball joint area or jack it up there, this puts the suspension at the stock height and you'll find more worn items that way. I would recommend installing Poly bushings in the control arms and sway bar-www.polybushings.com or get them from FWD or TU. If the ball joints or tie rod ends are shot, use Spicer or Napa Gold, Moog is junk.

Good pointers thx. I will try to clarify on some once I get there. How much do those iridiums run?

Vigo
12-13-2007, 02:10 AM
There are a lot of symptoms and ways to check a suspected head gasket leak.

First off, if you do a compression test, they sometimes show up that way as two adjacent cylinders having low compression because they are leaking into each other across a failed gasket. You're looking for compression numbers at LEAST 110-up, I found 145 on a freshly rebuilt motor i did several years ago so anywhere in that range is good, 60-90 is what typically shows if two cylinders leak into each other.

One obvious biggie is water in the oil. If the dipstick shows any sign of water or green coolant drops, or the oil is sorta frothy or sludgy or grayish, you've got a problem.

BUT you may be leaking coolant into the oil so slowly that it mostly boils off (oil temps are often well over 212) out of the crankcase and you never see evidence of it.

OR it may be leaking into the combustion chamber and going out with the exhaust in such small amounts that its not visible as the usual thick white steam.

In your case, bubbles in the coolant reservoir are a sign of a leaking headgasket. It COULD also be a sign of a failing radiator cap, you can test that by renting a coolant system pressure tester or just buying a new one for $10.

If you DO rent a pressure tester, i think what you will find on your car is that even when its completely cold, if you leave the tester on there and start it up there will be pressure in the system right away, which means combustion pressure is leaking into the cooling system.

(i looked over the car in person for those confused)

A leakdown test is basically a box that uses regulated pressure of compressed air to fill the cylinder through the spark plug hole and another gauge to show you percentage of leakage. You start the air and then rotate the motor until the leakage is smallest (which just means getting it to a point where both valves in that cylinder are closed) and seeing how much leakage is left. Up to 5% and you're golden. One of the cool things about the leakdown test is that since its a constant flow of air, you can 'listen' to see where the leaking air is going. out the intake manifold is intake valve, out the exhaust pipe is exhaust valve, out the crankcase is rings (rare but people here break pistons sometimes too) and out an adjacent cylinder's spark plug hole is headgasket, as is bubbles in the radiator. Its a big diagnostic aid basically.

You can do a test which involves putting a container full of a special fluid on the radiator neck which turns a different color in the presence of combustion gases.

Or you can get really fancy and get somebody with a 4 or 5-gas emission analyzer to probulate your car's orifices and tell you, basically the same science as the little blue fluid but ridiculously over complicated.



In most of these cases you would have no symptoms other than disappearing coolant and maybe soft performance, so dont be content with the fact that it made the trip home without blowing up... by the time you have driveability symptoms, it may be too late to stop your bearings from failings from water-oil or stop a massive overheat in the middle of nowhere.

Since imo you are already showing some sure signs of HG leak, i would verify that before putting any other money into the car. Stuff like the o2 sensor and pricey plugs and all are better done with the turbo off the car, or the combustion process working right and not ruining your fancy plugs.

Let me know if you need any face-to-face help, my house is open, we could swap that HG in a day easy.

burnt_toast
12-13-2007, 02:54 AM
Thanks Vigo, that will be another priority in that case along with getting it legal and getting gauges to work.

I'll try to check for those symptoms, and do at least oil change and air filter in meantime.

burnt_toast
12-30-2007, 11:26 AM
I've found some gauges for sale but they are for a '91 Spirit, will these still fit my '89? Is there any difference to them?

Please let me know, thanks.