opinions on oil and royal purple coolant...

[zshadow]

i need a couple opinions on what type of oil i want to put in the daytona when its finished and ready to go.

i read all about choosing, and which was better on minimopar.net, but my question was really never answered.

i got a 87 dodge daytona 2.2 turbo , converted to a t2, with light modifications (ie. fmic, 2.5" swingvalve/exhaust, coil/wires etc...) its got 99,547 miles on the clock, the pistons seem to be in decent shape, and the cylinder walls have little to no scratching or scuff marks, the head was leveled and balanced by the previous owner, before the gasket was replaced.

i know synthetic oil is a much thicker oil, and if there is a leak somewhere, it will just make it worse.

what im wondering is, should i run synthetic oil for it, or just regular 5w-30?

now my second question is, coolant. i know royal purple sells something similar to dextron which is supposedly better than normal coolant, but HOW much better is it? will there be a noticable difference?



~Kevin

[WVRampage]

After I get the engine in the rampage broke in the rest of the way im going to start runing mobil 1 in it and the trans has royal purple in it already,The trans in my cavalier has royalpurple sycromax in it and it shifts much beter,also im also runing mobil 1 in the engine on it. Im not sure of the royal purple coolant. I just use regualr coolant with redline water wetter in it,and also the same thing in my 78 F-250 and it stays at 180 all day unless stuck in a big hole and boring on it for a few min then it starts to get a little warmer but it cools right back off.

[zshadow]

hmm, wonder if putting royal purple in the tranny will help mine... i know the tranny uses regualr 10w30 motor oil as its fluid, instead of normal tranny fluid.

im interested to see how much that would change the performance of the tranny itself.

how many miles does your cavy have on it? has it been running synthetic all its life?


i was lookin in the summit magazine at the red water stuff. looks and sounds like pretty good stuff... maybe ill just use that in the coolant instead of the royal purple... plus purple is expensive! 4$something a quart!

[WVRampage]

hmm, wonder if putting royal purple in the tranny will help mine... i know the tranny uses regualr 10w30 motor oil as its fluid, instead of normal tranny fluid.

im interested to see how much that would change the performance of the tranny itself.

how many miles does your cavy have on it? has it been running synthetic all its life?


i was lookin in the summit magazine at the red water stuff. looks and sounds like pretty good stuff... maybe ill just use that in the coolant instead of the royal purple... plus purple is expensive! 4$something a quart!

It has 15000 on the trans and the last 12000 have been on sythetic the trans requres atf so i used it for a while on royal purple max atf then earlyer this week i changed tt o the sycromax the royal purple web site says it works in all manual transmissions that require atf or multy grade motor oil. the rampage is just running the royal purple 10 30 I think. The cavys engine ran regular oil for the first 12000 miles of its life on regular oil and the rest has been on mobil 1 it has 22500 on it right now I think. The trans isnt original the original one lost 3rd gear at 1000 miles and the other 3 tranys came out by 3000 all loosing 3rd and 4th gear GM voided my waranty and I got a lawyer the got me some cash so the trany thats in it is a junk yard trans that had real low miles I have been using sythetic in it for the last 15k like I said thats why the milage of car and trany dont match up. I drove the car for a while with only 1st 2nd and 5th gears. The redline water wetter is good for the few dollars it costs and it does the whole coolant system.

[87glhs232]

I've run Purple in my motor for the last 750 miles. No noticable difference over Mobil 1. I would however, run a synthetic. You commented on synthetics causing leaks, or making them worse. What does it is the detergents in the oil. They clean the coked junk off of everything, including seals. If it makes a seal leak or makes one leak worse, it's not really the oil causing the leak, it's just exposing the true problem. Something that should be fixed anyways.
Anyhow, run synthetic whatever you choose. Your turbo and turbo oil lines will thank you in the long run. Dino oil sludges to much for my taste.

Oh...and please dont put a fram filter on there!

[zshadow]

Oh...and please dont put a fram filter on there!

i would never think of doing that, i always put a purelator filter on for the first 70 miles after a new headgasket, then oil change, and put a k&n with synthetic now :)

[87glhs232]

i would never think of doing that, i always put a purelator filter on for the first 70 miles after a new headgasket, then oil change, and put a k&n with synthetic now :)
:amen:

[WVRampage]

:amen:

A guy I work with runs a FBO for fixing aircraft and right after mobil 1 came out for aircraft he was telling me that he had to chance many propshaft seals jsut because the stuff is so slick. And fram filters do suck im using k&n from now on, was using pure one.

[turbovanman²]

Synthetic isn't thicker, its thinner and because its man made, it can do the job better. Many magazines have dynoed dyno oils vs synthetic back to back and make serious power for oil changes. I would run 10W40 or 5W40 etc, 10W30 is too thin.

As for Dextron, you mean Dexcool, the red stuff. Stay away from that crap, it cokes up your cooling system, bad stuff. Use the green stuff, drilled thermostat and a few drops of dishwashing detergent.

In your trans, use manual gearbox oil if running synthetic, not synthetic motor oil or the synchros won't work properly.

[Mike_Shepard]

I currently have about 2K miles on my royal purple oil and the crap is as black as a tire im changing it to amsoil this weekend

[Mario]

10W30 is too thin.


Why do you say that? Going by the oil pressure's your seeing with that weight?

Speaking of which...I need to buy a new sensor for my oil pressure gauge. Went out at the end of the season. :o

[Darkwolf]

As for Dextron, you mean Dexcool, the red stuff. Stay away from that crap, it cokes up your cooling system, bad stuff. Use the green stuff, drilled thermostat and a few drops of dishwashing detergent.


Whats the dishwashing detergent for? Thats a new one for me.

[zshadow]

Whats the dishwashing detergent for? Thats a new one for me.



me 2, explain?

[John B]

and a few drops of dishwashing detergent.

say what? 'splain please:confused:

[contraption22]

The diswasher detergent does basically the same thing as the coolant aids ont he market such as Water Wetter, Purple Ice, etc. It breaks the surface tension of the water to allow better heat transfer from the metals in the cooling system to the coolant, enhancing cooling efficiency.

Note... use dishWASHER liquid, the stuff made for dish washing machines!. Not regular dish soap. The dishwasher soap will not foam like regular dish soap, and it also has agents to reduce corrosion of metals, perfect for your cooling system.

[turbovanman²]

^^^^^^^what he said, I learned this from Barry, the SDAC dude.

Don't go by colour on the oil, I noticed when running Mobil 1, it went black very fast, this new German spec stuff for the Diesel Volkswagens stays very clear so I guess its just oil design.

You don't judge your oil weight by pressure, you can have excellent pressure but under load it shears. 10W30 is what they use in joe blow passenger cars, not hard working turbo engines. I have talked to Amsoil and they recommend 10W40 in our cars and turbo engines, just for the added shear resistance under load, 10W30 would be fine when its colder out and thats why I am using 5W40, instant oil pressure when its cold outside.

[zshadow]

The diswasher detergent does basically the same thing as the coolant aids ont he market such as Water Wetter, Purple Ice, etc. It breaks the surface tension of the water to allow better heat transfer from the metals in the cooling system to the coolant, enhancing cooling efficiency.

Note... use dishWASHER liquid, the stuff made for dish washing machines!. Not regular dish soap. The dishwasher soap will not foam like regular dish soap, and it also has agents to reduce corrosion of metals, perfect for your cooling system.


good to know, ill have to do that once i actually friggen get the damn car back together... still need to replaced clutch/flywheel, put the head back on, finish the brakes, and replace the suspension. ontop of all the wiring crap i have to do.


thanks for the help guys

~Kevin

[turbovanman²]

good to know, ill have to do that once i actually friggen get the damn car back together... still need to replaced clutch/flywheel, put the head back on, finish the brakes, and replace the suspension. ontop of all the wiring crap i have to do.


thanks for the help guys

~Kevin

Thats all, sheesh, you should have that finished tomorrow, ;)

[zshadow]

Thats all, sheesh, you should have that finished tomorrow, ;)


i would have, if i had the money and all the parts i needed...

still waiting on alot of things actually.

i havent dropped a td tranny before, but ive got some people to help out, which is going to be the biggest part of the entire thing.

but thanks for the help :)

[87glhs232]

i would have, if i had the money and all the parts i needed...

still waiting on alot of things actually.

i havent dropped a td tranny before, but ive got some people to help out, which is going to be the biggest part of the entire thing.

but thanks for the help :)
Sounds similar to what I'm doing right now. I've corner full of parts and I still need more.

[johnl]

For a deal on synthetic, try Wal-Mart's house brand. A few months ago I bought two 5 quart jugs for $11.99 each. Their house brand oil filter is high quality too; they were $2.49.

[turbovanman²]

For a deal on synthetic, try Wal-Mart's house brand. A few months ago I bought two 5 quart jugs for $11.99 each. Their house brand oil filter is high quality too; they were $2.49.

Yeah, I use the house brand stuff in my moms Blazer, my full size van and my Jimmy also.

Wow, thats cheap, 4 litres here is $20 plus tax.

[87glhs232]

Wow, thats cheap, 4 litres here is $20 plus tax.

Thats because your paying them to convert it to metric units! :lol:

[turbovanman²]

Thats because your paying them to convert it to metric units! :lol:

Oh, aren't you frickin hilarious, :confused:


lol! :p

[turbomopar87]

I just bought an 86 turbo z C/S, auto, on saturday. It has a small hole in the pan on the tranny. I have a spare one from an 86 laser (i think they are the same) When i change the pan I know only about half the fluids come out...how can i get all of it out. I never worked on tranys before beside taking my a555 out of the shelby Z while the motor was out. I was thinking about using royal purple ATF stuff...from what i read its pretty good?
Thanks
Kris

also, what auto tranny came in the 86 Daytonas turbo Z C/S...a???

[turbovanman²]

I just bought an 86 turbo z C/S, auto, on saturday. It has a small hole in the pan on the tranny. I have a spare one from an 86 laser (i think they are the same) When i change the pan I know only about half the fluids come out...how can i get all of it out. I never worked on tranys before beside taking my a555 out of the shelby Z while the motor was out. I was thinking about using royal purple ATF stuff...from what i read its pretty good?
Thanks
Kris

also, what auto tranny came in the 86 Daytonas turbo Z C/S...a???

All TD's came with the A413 transmission.

To get all of the fluid out, you need to flush it. Change the pan and filter, adjust the bands and take it to a tranny shop. They will charge you like $80.

Any synthetic will work, I used the Walmart brand for 2 years and it was awesome stuff. If you are using synthetic, you will need to buy 16 litres, 4 when you change the pan and the rest give to the tranny shop to install in there machine.

[afsautoworx]

I gotta here why you guys dont run FRAM oil filters. On the 1st page 2 er 3 people said they wouldnt run that "junk" filter.

[turbomopar87]

Thanks turbovanman.

I have access to a tranny flush machine(after shop hours) from a garage i used to be a gas pump attendent at. If i bring the guy a case of beer he will most likely do it for that, and i will just buy fluids and the stuff you put in it to flush. My best bet would be to just take the car there and do the pan on the lift then flush it then. A lift is so much better them a jcak and some stands...lol. And i drove the car home about 10 miles, its a VERY slow drip, so i can make it 3 miles to the garage before i do the pan.

[turbovanman²]

I gotta here why you guys dont run FRAM oil filters. On the 1st page 2 er 3 people said they wouldnt run that "junk" filter.

Apperantly, the carboard ends leak, the drain back valves leak and the glue can melt at high temps so they recommend the HD versions for race or turbo engines.

[87glhs232]

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilter-fram1.txt
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

Many thanks to Russ Knize for the research.

[afsautoworx]

Ive always run the Fram Tough Guard on my jeep and used to run the regular fram on my old 2.5 n/a daytona. I used the tough guard because it had a 99% multi pass filtration, meaning it filtered out 99% of small micron particles over and over again. which who knows really...maybe marketing scheme or exagerated. The purolator was suprising, we sell these at work...didnt know they were a decent filter.

[turbovanman²]

Ive always run the Fram Tough Guard on my jeep and used to run the regular fram on my old 2.5 n/a daytona. I used the tough guard because it had a 99% multi pass filtration, meaning it filtered out 99% of small micron particles over and over again. which who knows really...maybe marketing scheme or exagerated. The purolator was suprising, we sell these at work...didnt know they were a decent filter.

I don't think there that bad anymore and remember, Russ's test was done years ago. Alot of shops install them around here so they can't be all that bad.


BTW, love your sig, as I saw this thread, AC/DC's Hells Bells came on the radio, :lol:

[afsautoworx]

BTW, love your sig, as I saw this thread, AC/DC's Hells Bells came on the radio,

Haha thats awesome, im gonna change my sig from time to time with diff AC/DC stuff. im glad u like it! :evil:

[GLHS069]

In your trans, use manual gearbox oil if running synthetic, not synthetic motor oil or the synchros won't work properly.[/QUOTE]


What do you mean the synchros won't work? I have Mobil 1 (5w30) in my 525and it seems to work just fine. If I shouldn't use it, then what manual gearbox synthetic oil should I be using?

Thanks,
Steve

[afsautoworx]

The only thing ive heard and it might be a myth is synthetic oil in gearboxes doesnt have good "gear climb" which i take to mean the oil that has settled on the bottom of the tranny doesnt stick and "climb" up the gears to lubricate them. Check this out www.bobistheoilguy.com

[turbovanman²]

What do you mean the synchros won't work? I have Mobil 1 (5w30) in my 525and it seems to work just fine. If I shouldn't use it, then what manual gearbox synthetic oil should I be using?

Thanks,
Steve

On some models, it is too slippery and the synchros won't slow down and you get the dreaded crunch.

[Dave_J]

I use Dino Chevron Supreme 5w30 winter and 10W30 summer in my 2.5 NA. In the A-520 I run Syn Royal Purple 5W30 and it shifts just as bad as Dino 5W30. I have shortended the throw on my shifter so it takes a good hand to bang 3rd at 4500 RPM. When my 91 Shadow ES is running it pulls a high 15 @ 1/4 mile. and gets 40+MPG with a high of 43 MPG. I use K&N or WIX oil filters. DaveJ

[WickedShelby88]

Not that I asked the original question, but thanks to all who responded. The info provided on this forum can be a lifesaver. And yes the CHEAP fram filter is still paper. Cut some filters in half while working at AZ to do an in store comparision. We sold a lot more of the expensive filters until the district manager told us to take the display down??? Think im gonna go with RP sycromax in the A555. Greenstuff with some dishwasher soap in the radiator and 5w40 (northern IL gets cold too) RP in the ole 2.2 T2.

Thanks all, Joseph

[sdac guy]

In your trans, use manual gearbox oil if running synthetic, not synthetic motor oil or the synchros won't work properly.About two years ago one of our members out east had a chance to talk to a couple engineers from the DC New Process Gear plant. They told him that in their tests, synthetic motor oil, either 5w30 or 0w30, worked best in the 520/523/525/555/568 series of transes. They specifically recommended Amsoil synthetic motor oil.

Even though I am an Amsoil dealer, and got some sales out of that recommendation (that is why I heard of it), my suggestion would be to run Mobil 1 of the same weights. The small performance differences between Amsoil and Mobil 1 can only proven in a lab environment, but Mobil 1 can be had commonly for about half the price of Amsoil.

Barry

[turbovanman²]

About two years ago one of our members out east had a chance to talk to a couple engineers from the DC New Process Gear plant. They told him that in their tests, synthetic motor oil, either 5w30 or 0w30, worked best in the 520/523/525/555/568 series of transes. They specifically recommended Amsoil synthetic motor oil.

Even though I am an Amsoil dealer, and got some sales out of that recommendation (that is why I heard of it), my suggestion would be to run Mobil 1 of the same weights. The small performance differences between Amsoil and Mobil 1 can only proven in a lab environment, but Mobil 1 can be had commonly for about half the price of Amsoil.

Barry

Very interesting, magazines, Cliff Ramsdell etc all recommend gear box lube. Hmmm, things are forever changing, lol!

[sdac guy]

Definitely NOT gear lube of any kind. Gear lube is WAY too heavy, especially in cold climates. Years ago I tried some Amsoil gear lube in my Omni (A525). It was fine for slow shifting around town, but under race conditions I missed gears more often, just couldn't get it to engage. That trans was bought new and still has less than 6K miles on it. Then when cold weather got here, there were mornings it was hard to move the shift lever, much less get the synchro to let loose so I could get it in gear. First warm day we had, I changed it to 5w30 and all has been fine since.

Since then I've found out that most gear lubes (including Amsoil) have additives that can harm the bronze synchros. I think it is sulphates, but am not sure. That is one reason all gear lubes, including synthetics, have that distinct odor, it is the additive package that causes it.

Remember, originally Mopar reccommended ATF in the manual transes. That is about as thin a lube as you can get, it is like water compared to gear lube.

Barry

[turbovanman²]

Definitely NOT gear lube of any kind. Gear lube is WAY too heavy, especially in cold climates. Years ago I tried some Amsoil gear lube in my Omni (A525). It was fine for slow shifting around town, but under race conditions I missed gears more often, just couldn't get it to engage. That trans was bought new and still has less than 6K miles on it. Then when cold weather got here, there were mornings it was hard to move the shift lever, much less get the synchro to let loose so I could get it in gear. First warm day we had, I changed it to 5w30 and all has been fine since.

Since then I've found out that most gear lubes (including Amsoil) have additives that can harm the bronze synchros. I think it is sulphates, but am not sure. That is one reason all gear lubes, including synthetics, have that distinct odor, it is the additive package that causes it.

Remember, originally Mopar reccommended ATF in the manual transes. That is about as thin a lube as you can get, it is like water compared to gear lube.

Barry

NO NO NO, lol, I know not gear lube but Redline, etc make engine oil type gear box oil, thats not gear oil, lol!

I still don't agree with ATF in manual trannies, it has no business being in there, its a hydraulic oil, not gear oil. Borg Warner T5's would wear out fast under hard abuse with ATF, replace it with GM Synchromesh or syn oil and the wear stopped.

[sdac guy]

Yes, I was speaking of EP gear lube that is designed for hypoid type diffs (typically 75w90 or heavier).

I've heard good things said of Red Line, but I am not personally familiar with their products.

Barry

[contraption22]

Redline D4 ATF is a Dextron/Mercon replacment AND carries a GL4 gear lube rating. Sounds about perfect for manual trannies requiring ATF.

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_gearlubricants.asp?pvID=76&prodID=59&subcatID=19

[3Bar_Mopar]

Note... use dishWASHER liquid, the stuff made for dish washing machines!. Not regular dish soap. The dishwasher soap will not foam like regular dish soap, and it also has agents to reduce corrosion of metals, perfect for your cooling system.


OK...I need some clarification. I went and got some Cascade dishwashing detergent. This stuff is thick like dish soap and smells like bleach....is this what I should use? They also has some "rinse agent" that was thinner, made by Jet Dry. Is what I have fine, or can you tell me what specific brand and bottle to look for?

[turbovanman²]

OK...I need some clarification. I went and got some Cascade dishwashing detergent. This stuff is thick like dish soap and smells like bleach....is this what I should use? They also has some "rinse agent" that was thinner, made by Jet Dry. Is what I have fine, or can you tell me what specific brand and bottle to look for?


I have used reg dishwashing soap with no problems but Mike is saying liquid dishwasher stuff as it doesn't foam but Jet Dry is NOT what you use.

[sdac guy]

The original reccomendation about using liquid dish detergent was made by Ed Peters at SDAC-6. He said to use regular dish soap, but no more than a few drops as using much more than that would result in foaming, and that was to be avoided.

The other thing that has been mentioned came from Chrylser engineers at the time. They found that the boundary that limits the transfer of heat from the head to the coolant happened at coolant mixes where the anti-freeze mix to water offered protection greater than about -20 degrees F.

So supposedly, if one uses less anti-freeze (which also provides boil over protection) the use of detergent or Water Wetter was no longer needed.

Barry

[zshadow]

okay ill be honest, maybe i missed it. but what type of fluid should i put in the tranny after i put the synthetic. obviously not sythetic motor oil cause its too slippery.

any examples?

~Kevin

[turbovanman²]

Barry said regular engine oil synthetic is fine in the manuals, so 5W30.

[ShelbyTurbo]

I still don't agree with ATF in manual trannies, it has no business being in there, its a hydraulic oil, not gear oil.

Agreed, totally 100% with you on this. I remember when I was shopping at the local Mopar dealership and they recommended ATF+4 in the NVT350 in the Neon, I flatly said, "There is NO Fing way I'm putting ATF in MY trans." And then they said, "We have a transaxle lubricant aplication chart back here, it says to use ATF+4..." So I convinced the counterman to let me back there to see the chart. Lo and behold, their reccomendation for the NVT350 in the Neon was ATF+4, but in the PT Cruiser, it called for Mopar Manual Syncomesh fluid. Needless to say, I walked out of there with four 8 dollar bottles of the syncromesh fluid, and a good piece of mind that it would protect my transmission from the daily beatings I would deliver.

As for oil, I don't cheap out, a 5qt jug of Mobil one is 20 bucks at the local walmart, and a K&N Oil filter is 12 at autostoned, I think that spending 32 bucks every 5k to protect my engine is worth not having anything wear out from constant high rpm use. :thumb:

[WVRampage]

Agreed, totally 100% with you on this. I remember when I was shopping at the local Mopar dealership and they recommended ATF+4 in the NVT350 in the Neon, I flatly said, "There is NO Fing way I'm putting ATF in MY trans." And then they said, "We have a transaxle lubricant aplication chart back here, it says to use ATF+4..." So I convinced the counterman to let me back there to see the chart. Lo and behold, their reccomendation for the NVT350 in the Neon was ATF+4, but in the PT Cruiser, it called for Mopar Manual Syncomesh fluid. Needless to say, I walked out of there with four 8 dollar bottles of the syncromesh fluid, and a good piece of mind that it would protect my transmission from the daily beatings I would deliver.

As for oil, I don't cheap out, a 5qt jug of Mobil one is 20 bucks at the local walmart, and a K&N Oil filter is 12 at autostoned, I think that spending 32 bucks every 5k to protect my engine is worth not having anything wear out from constant high rpm use. :thumb:
I have a new cavy the trans had some issues and I changed the trans and it required atf thats what I used for a little while then switched to royal purple sycromax it shifts much beter and just feels beter.

[Boogieman142]

Yeah, i went to the magnus steer (used to be new process gear) in syracuse ny and they told me that it did not matter if it was synthetic or not, just as long as it was 5w-30

[contraption22]

Agreed, totally 100% with you on this. I remember when I was shopping at the local Mopar dealership and they recommended ATF+4 in the NVT350 in the Neon, I flatly said, "There is NO Fing way I'm putting ATF in MY trans." And then they said, "We have a transaxle lubricant aplication chart back here, it says to use ATF+4..." So I convinced the counterman to let me back there to see the chart. Lo and behold, their reccomendation for the NVT350 in the Neon was ATF+4, but in the PT Cruiser, it called for Mopar Manual Syncomesh fluid. Needless to say, I walked out of there with four 8 dollar bottles of the syncromesh fluid, and a good piece of mind that it would protect my transmission from the daily beatings I would deliver.

As for oil, I don't cheap out, a 5qt jug of Mobil one is 20 bucks at the local walmart, and a K&N Oil filter is 12 at autostoned, I think that spending 32 bucks every 5k to protect my engine is worth not having anything wear out from constant high rpm use. :thumb:


There is a funny story as to how ATF became the specified lubricant for Neon manual trannies. Thank the UAW for that one.

[turbovanman²]

There is a funny story as to how ATF became the specified lubricant for Neon manual trannies. Thank the UAW for that one.


I am listening, :thumb:

[contraption22]

I am listening, :thumb:

Rumor has it that the UAW workers at Belvedere complained about having to fill Neon transmissions with two different lubricants, ATF for autos, and MTL for 5-speeds. The UAW won, and despite the many failures of manual transmissions in long-term durability testing when filled with ATF, thats what started comming in them.

[turbovanman²]

Rumor has it that the UAW workers at Belvedere complained about having to fill Neon transmissions with two different lubricants, ATF for autos, and MTL for 5-speeds. The UAW won, and despite the many failures of manual transmissions in long-term durability testing when filled with ATF, thats what started comming in them.

Thanks, good story, :thumb:

[WickedShelby88]

I wont say what I think, but unless your one of those workers, you probably would laugh.

[WickedShelby88]

:thumb: Syncromax, definitely good stuff