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2.5L_Turbo_Sundance
11-24-2007, 10:43 PM
hello guys, im new here on turbo mopars.

i have just gotten myself a 1989 plymouth sundance with the 2.5 turbo.

this car was parked for about a year, and i am trying to get it to run right again. it is all stock for what i know.

i know i will have questions as i am fixing it up, but here is one on my mind right now,

what is an average MPG of the car? and which way are you running it?

i got this car as a gas saver, so hopefully its a lot better then my 90 RAM.... which got about 15...


well, hope you guys can help me with this project!!

Alex

JDAWG
11-24-2007, 11:22 PM
welcome
a turbo 5 spd car in good running shape can get 30mpg if you can keep your foot out of the pedal

Directconnection
11-24-2007, 11:26 PM
welcome
a turbo 5 spd car in good running shape can get 30mpg if you can keep your foot out of the pedal

A guy I know gets low/mid 30's in his '89 T-I 5-speed Shadow on the highway.

"Which way are you running it?" Usually forward..hehe.

We are hoping that after driving it some, you start to get the bug and start modding it for real good performance which comes real cheap and easy without much, if at all... expense in MPG. Some guys with high output turbo mopars are still getting great gas milage out of their cars.

speedfreek500
11-24-2007, 11:34 PM
Don't look at the gas gauge look at the boost gauge!It's alot funner

JDAWG
11-24-2007, 11:47 PM
my auto did like 23mpg, alot of guys are puttin down like 300whp and still gettin 30's, if you keep your foot out of the pedal haha

2.5L_Turbo_Sundance
11-24-2007, 11:51 PM
yea.. i got you guys.

i guess i forgot to mention i got an automatic... not too sure if its the 4 or 3 speed.

i will probably end up moddin it, but that isnt gonna be now. one of the first thing i wanna get for is is a blow off valve :D

yea, by which way are you running it, i meant hard or easy lol.

im loving those 30+ though, gonna give a break from spending $10 every other day in the truck....


im already on the mod habit with the truck though, and i already got a few mods for the car, if audio counts. i got 2 12's and 2 10's with a rockford fosgate 800 watt amp.


Alex

turbovanmanČ
11-25-2007, 01:50 AM
Welcome, :welcome:

Feel free to ask questions.

With an auto, it severly handicaps it for fuel economy so your looking around 25 ish or less. All turbo mopars come with the A413, which is a 3 speed auto. Some models got a lockup converter which is identified by a wire plug behind the dipstick tube.

As always, do a thorough tuneup on it, a new oxygen sensor wouldn't be a bad idea-NTK or OEM, good wires, see signature, lol. Make sure its getting to operating temp, no codes and a good 2.5 inch exhaust will help it breath. Run some synthetic engine oil, 10w30 or 40, tranny service, adjust the bands, air in the tires, put 40 psi in if the ride isn't too harsh.

rich tideswell
11-25-2007, 03:59 PM
"Which way are you running it?" Usually forward..hehe.
.

and what if he wants to run it backwards like Ferris Bueller to take off some of the mileage???

rich tideswell
11-25-2007, 04:05 PM
As always, do a thorough tuneup on it, a new oxygen sensor wouldn't be a bad idea-NTK or OEM, good wires, see signature, lol. Make sure its getting to operating temp, no codes and a good 2.5 inch exhaust will help it breath. Run some synthetic engine oil, 10w30 or 40, tranny service, adjust the bands, air in the tires, put 40 psi in if the ride isn't too harsh.

:thumb: :needpics1:

jamesmonty
11-25-2007, 05:46 PM
Definatly will get in the 25mpg range with the auto. I have a 92 t1 auto Spirit that I drive like a grandma, and thats what I get. My old Shadow (R.I.P. :mad: ) with a log style t1 and a 5-speed would get 30-35mpg If I drove it lightly. I know the traveler computers are not too acurate but, I have seen my friends 88 t2 5-speed daytona show 40+ mpg on the highway!

What are your issues with it not running? Ask away, there are plenty of people on here that will help.

BadAssPerformance
11-25-2007, 06:58 PM
Welcome!

2.5L_Turbo_Sundance
11-25-2007, 07:48 PM
thanks guys!!!


reasons for it not running..... not too sure lol

we didnt get to check it out yet again today....


but im working on cosmetics and other stuff as well... the previous owner had a sound system in it, and left a mess of wires, so im tearing the whole console apart getting all the stuff i dont need and bad stuff out.

i am planning on doing a tune up on it, but that will be when time comes, which will hopefully be soon.

i was also going to ask, since its a stock automatic, what gas should i run in it?

i have heard some people say it may need to run on 89 or 93....


i would prefer it be able to run on 87, due to gas prices.... but i will run whatever.


if anything else comes to mind, i will ask.


Alex

gvare001
11-25-2007, 08:29 PM
On my trip to Florida from Minnesota my GLH averaged 33mpg, with a super60 calibration.

turbovanmanČ
11-25-2007, 10:07 PM
i have heard some people say it may need to run on 89 or 93....


i would prefer it be able to run on 87, due to gas prices.... but i will run whatever.


if anything else comes to mind, i will ask.


Alex


If you stay out of boost and keep it around the stock level, you can get away with 89, but if you really want to run 87, you need to retard the timing.

johnl
11-25-2007, 10:12 PM
Welcome. Another suggestion for a car that has been parked - dump the gas that's in it and change the fuel filter. A bad filter or pump can kill a turbo car.
If the fuel pump is noisy, be careful.

jamesmonty
11-26-2007, 08:34 AM
Welcome. Another suggestion for a car that has been parked - dump the gas that's in it and change the fuel filter. A bad filter or pump can kill a turbo car.
If the fuel pump is noisy, be careful.

+1 on that. I bought a van that sat for 2years and had to replace the whole tank due to rust. Minimum you should pull the pump out to look at the condition of the tank. Rust flakes can clog the sock filter quick and leave you stranded. I have found that there is always a reason a car has been parked, try to find out from the PO why they parked it. Might be somthing simple!

turbokid
11-26-2007, 11:21 AM
fuel pumps are not the most reliable in these cars =(

BIGBRUDDA
11-26-2007, 01:45 PM
WELCOME to the clan laddy!:clap:
Turbo Sundance's are rare birds. What condition is it in? Is it an RS?
Can we come down and "winter" at your place?

looneytuner
11-26-2007, 02:07 PM
The TI's were ok with 87 octane.

turbovanmanČ
11-26-2007, 04:22 PM
fuel pumps are not the most reliable in these cars =(

???????? :confused: The stock fuel pumps and Walbro's are very reliable, more so than alot of newer cars. People are constantly forgetting that most of them still have the stock fuel pump which is now around 20 years old and 1000's of miles on them. ;)

turbokid
11-26-2007, 05:26 PM
i have been through 3 in the last 3 months on my gtc =(

BIGBRUDDA
11-27-2007, 01:28 PM
i have been through 3 in the last 3 months on my gtc =(

Check your wiring!! Good connections ,no corrosion !

turbovanmanČ
11-27-2007, 02:45 PM
i have been through 3 in the last 3 months on my gtc =(

New or used?

turbokid
11-27-2007, 06:05 PM
used.... i have a bone yard. I have enough fuel pumps to last me a while... that and my dad is cheap
The one is his glhs went out about 4 months ago. And i cant keep one in my car to save my life.

2.5L_Turbo_Sundance
12-02-2007, 01:34 AM
humm, well, im not gonna run it hard, except maybe once in a while.. i mean, come on, its a turbo :D


but seriously though.... the tank was mostly empty, and im not sure about the fuel pump, because when we first got the car, there was a loose connection, and we pulled the tank out because of that. we ran the car around the house a little bit... but not more then that. then we parked it.. so idk...



i might end up pulling the tank. i gotta renew insurance in Feb. so hopefully it will be done by then.



thanks guys for your help, and i will ask for more when it comes.


and im not sure what kind it is really....



all i know is that its a sundance...



no other badges.. actually there is no badges to my knowledge, except for the one in the grille.

i would have to ask my dad if you guys wanna come down and "winter" lol

Alex

boost geek
12-02-2007, 07:59 PM
I've never had a fuel pump go bad yet, but I also NEVER let my car get lower than a 1/4 tank between fills.
I'm running 20 psi boost on 87 octane, but thats with an alky kit and a G head at 16* timing. I LOVE these cars, hope you will too.:thumb:

Directconnection
12-02-2007, 08:59 PM
My original pump in my VNT Shadow pooped the bed at around 110,000 miles. I replaced it with a generic aftermarket pump and then about 2 years later after the car was on a hiatus, did I find the new pump not suiufficient to hold any psi over 4,300 rpms. Never get aftermarket pumps except for a walbro.

Another car I helped build for a freind made 271hp on the stock orginal pump. On the fine line there and not suggested.... but it held up.

2.5L_Turbo_Sundance
12-04-2007, 11:33 AM
ok, i might sound kinda stupid by asking this.... but im new to the turbo cars and im learning. but, by TI, TII, TIII, you guys mean the turbo stages correct?


and what stage am i? its all stock to my knowledge, so im guess TI, but did they come upgraded from the factory?


thanks
Alex

BIGBRUDDA
12-04-2007, 02:18 PM
Yep : T1= 2.5 turbo no intercooler,
T2= 2.2 turbo intercooled
T3= 2.2 16 valve DOHC intercooled
Bonus round!!!:clap:
T4= 2.2 Variable Nozzle Turbo intercooled
And the rarest of birds, The Mazzerati Motor, 16 valve DOHC found in
TC Mazzerzti convertibles.:thumb:

2.5L_Turbo_Sundance
12-04-2007, 08:02 PM
alright, cool man, thanks a lot. i will have to remember that but i will, im sure of it.

i just need to keep on this forum, and keep on learning



Alex

BadAssPerformance
12-04-2007, 09:07 PM
Yep : T1= 2.5 turbo no intercooler,
T2= 2.2 turbo intercooled
T3= 2.2 16 valve DOHC intercooled
Bonus round!!!:clap:
T4= 2.2 Variable Nozzle Turbo intercooled
And the rarest of birds, The Mazzerati Motor, 16 valve DOHC found in
TC Mazzerzti convertibles.:thumb:

Early T1 = "Log" intake "suck thru the throttle body" 2.2L turbo
Late T1 = "blow thru the throttle body" 2.5L turbo

JT's turbo tech:
http://www.badassperformance.com/mtech/turbotech.html

Frank's copy:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=17

Scottmon
12-05-2007, 05:56 AM
Don't forget to read up at Gary D's: http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo.html

Should be mandatory reading for anyone new to the TD game.

2.5L_Turbo_Sundance
12-05-2007, 11:15 AM
i have peeked at that site, and wow, looks like there is A LOT of great info on there, and i plan on looking it over when i have more time.


thanks Scott.


Alex

BIGBRUDDA
12-05-2007, 02:27 PM
[QUOTE=2.5L_Turbo_Sundance;242567]i have peeked at that site, and wow, looks like there is A LOT of great info on there, and i plan on looking it over when i have more time.]

Go ahead and print out the info you need. And keep it in a folder. :thumb: Ya can't always get computer access out on the side of the road, in the middle of the night ,when your car dies.:nod:
Other good resources: www.allpar.com, www.minimopar.com
Thank God for the Knize's:amen:

2.5L_Turbo_Sundance
12-06-2007, 07:42 PM
Go ahead and print out the info you need. And keep it in a folder. Ya can't always get computer access out on the side of the road, in the middle of the night ,when your car dies.


hhuuuummmmm, thats really what i wanna hear, that itll die on me on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere...... thanks man..... but i know waht you mean. i jsut hope i wont be in a hurry to get across a border in a hurry though lol jk guys, i aint like that.


but i get what you meant though, always be ready anywhere and everywhere!



Alex

3Bar_Mopar
12-09-2007, 02:39 AM
hhuuuummmmm, thats really what i wanna hear, that itll die on me on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere...... thanks man..... but i know waht you mean.

Alex


These are old cars, and most of the time still using original 18+ year old factory parts that were more than likely abused at some point in their life-spans by clueless owners because they are, after all, cheap, fun turbocharged cars.
I say these things because 1. they're true, 2. you can't be afraid to work on your own car and get dirty with these. They are relatively reliable, but not maintenance free....and 3. to be completely honest...we have to weed out the posers and potential ricers...this just ain't a fart-can and neon light crowd. Big wings are for TGIFriday's. :p

Darkapollo
12-09-2007, 07:53 PM
I have only ever had 1 total failure that left me stranded so dont let these guys scare you :-p
My old 91 Sundance RS (2.5 T1 Auto) left me on the side of the road when the 15 year old fuel line from the tank to the filter popped.
10 minutes later (well... the next day.. it WAS 3am when it happened) it was back on the road.
That engine has gone through 3 cars with a very mild refresh between each.
From my sundance to my shadow now into my daytona, Ive lost track on the miles its gotten ROMPED on, but they are up in the 200k mark.
Crank was resurfaced, bearings changed, all gaskets, etc, is as far as it went.
I am not nice to that engine, and it loves me for it.
Like I said, it has never left me stranded, save but once.

Anyway.
P-Bodies are FUN! Mine will be back on the road come spring... I hope..

2.5L_Turbo_Sundance
12-11-2007, 09:45 AM
yea i know yo ualways gotta be ready, and it was just saying that.... but yea, i know anything can happen anywhere....


and im ready to get my hands dirty on, and i know of all the things it may have coming my way..... anywhere and anytime, so im going to be ready.....


but i may not be driving the car though, i need to talk to my buddy, i may be trading a 1986 R/C 4x4 for a 1995 Dakota 4Cyl 5speed, so im guesing its a regular non-turbo 2.5L.



but yea, ill have to see, plus i would ahve to check the car and get a fuel pump, since i dont think its working right now....:(



but yea, thanks, and all i drive is older model stuffs, i got a 90 Ram, never had any trouble with it, jsut the regular maintenance every 5000 miles, and check the fluids regularly, never left me stranded.




but yea, i will keep updated, and i need to get some pics up of the car.

someone before has told me taht you hit the "insert image" button, which is the mountains or whatever up top, but which codes would i take from photobucket? i can have 4 "codes" for it.....


i cannot do it now, since im at school and they blocked photobucket recently..... so it will have to wait, but any help would be appreciated


Thanks
Alex

2.2turboscotty
12-11-2007, 04:33 PM
welcome Alex! hope you decide to drive that car, it would be a shame to let her sit again. these cars are very fun and even if you decide to drive the dakota daily then you can really play with the car and still get great mileage when you want to drive it. then again get the truck and turbo that too, the more the better!
one thing about the community here is, where are you going to meet this many really cool people that are so willing to help you out any way they can?. i couldn't have gotten through some hard times with my cars if i didn't have my friends on here to help me out.

burnt_toast
12-12-2007, 11:22 AM
:amen: to this thread, newb 2.5T owner here and this helped me learn some stuff. Now I know I have a late T1, and I've been wanting to clear that up. :thumb:

2.5L_Turbo_Sundance
12-14-2007, 07:56 PM
one thing about the community here is, where are you going to meet this many really cool people that are so willing to help you out any way they can?. i couldn't have gotten through some hard times with my cars if i didn't have my friends on here to help me out.

i know how it is. Im also on www.dodgetruckworld.com and the people on there have helped me out on so much, and im sure you guys are the same.

one thing i like about dodgetruckworld, or DTW for short, which i might call it a lot on here, is that we have get togethers (gtg) at shows, or just to hang out sometimes. im wondering if you guys do that sometimes, jsut get together at shows and have a whole bunch of people from here parked next one another with some sort of a logo, advertising this site, and showing the spectators what we are about in the vehicles we are displaying and our enthusiasm in these cars/trucks as a whole.

i love going to those shows, i made a lot of friends this way, and its jsut a great time everytime we gtg.

well, with that said,
i will let you guys know if i get the truck, we might let the car sit again, but if you guys are interested, we might let it go.
i will still pop in and out of this site, because who knows.... i might end up taking the sundance's motor and dropping it in the truck:D or jsut the manifold and turbo :D



but yea.

thanks for the warm welcomes
Alex