BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

[BadAssPerformance]

Correct, '91 big spline

[Reeves]

For years and years it was the autos that were unreliable..... Dammit! :banghead:

[turbovanman²]

For years and years it was the autos that were unreliable..... Dammit! :banghead:

Lol, :partywoot:

[black86glhs]

Don't worry Reeves, Simon is helping to keep it on the top of the list!!! :lol:

[ohiorob]

For years and years it was the autos that were unreliable..... Dammit! :banghead:

you guys need to spend a small fortune on them, up grade what breaks instead of replacing parts with 20+ year old stock parts. Its like an old dead whore, she'll do in a pinch but when you really hammer on her she just falls apart.

[RoadWarrior222]

So erm, go and find a really good taxidermist???

[BadAssPerformance]

you guys need to spend a small fortune on them, up grade what breaks instead of replacing parts with 20+ year old stock parts. Its like an old dead whore, she'll do in a pinch but when you really hammer on her she just falls apart.

LOL, hilarious Rob! I cannot beleive the thread got this long before our first dead hooker analogy :thumb:

I couldn't agree more, and throwing this thing back together, including the 3rd gear that came out of it last time it was apart, was pretty much just to make the Monster Mopar Weekend and try to finish the season... and I'm starting to learn enough about these things to start trying to design stuff.

[Skibbe]

Yikes. If you're driving all the way out to monster Mopar you should bring a spare trans.

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL... The though had crossed my mind, but this is the only one I have clearanced for the ACT clutch and already set up with an OBX... and running out of spare time. Was thinking about trying to get it together to shake ti down Sunday, but this cat doesn;t have too many more lives, probably better to save em till Monster, LOL

[cordes]

Lol, :partywoot:

How many guys are having success with stock autos in the 450-500HP range? It seems like all of these failures are coming in cars which are hovering around the 500HP mark?

[RoadWarrior222]

That's probably true... though there's wear and maintenance failures, and driver error failures at HP levels below that. Basically 150,000 mile trannies without upgrades or having the bands adjusted regular, or even the fluid changed, won't stand being beat on for long even at "only" 150HP.... and one tire fires will break the diff of course, but it's the same with some of the manuals.

That said though, less than $50 and a good shape auto, will get you into realms where clutches get spendy for manuals, but go more than 300HP or so they need proper "stoutening" (Clutch packs, band struts etc) which is still not all that expensive to DIY, apart from custom torque convertors, and then as you say, things start to get difficult around 500HP, input shafts, output shafts, case weaknesses... in which some luck of the draw is involved.

[Aries_Turbo]

it seems to me that the biggest issue with the manuals at this point is that damn intermediate shaft bearing.

i wonder if there is an off the shelf bearing that will press onto the shaft (without the race) and press into the case like the original or the other way around. it will make reassembly a bit more difficult but if it solves the race walking issue or the shaft wear issue on a 555 even if it requires a touch of machining, it would be worth it IMO.

Brian

[turbovanman²]

Don't worry Reeves, Simon is helping to keep it on the top of the list!!! :lol:

I am simply a torture tester, then make stronger parts. :p


How many guys are having success with stock autos in the 450-500HP range? It seems like all of these failures are coming in cars which are hovering around the 500HP mark?

Lots last at that power, its me who weigh's 3700 lbs that is having issues. Look at Dean Stillie, BSX, SMP etc, all making 1000 whp or less and survive.

Right now, working on a 300m output shaft and matching front planetary.

True the TC is expensive but comparative to a decent clutch. Building one properly is time consuming if you have to weld the case up.

[black86glhs]

I see the replacement bearing for the front of the int. shaft being a major issue for us 520/555 guys. It is thinner than the original and that allows it to move towards the bell housing in the case. What if you put a spacer in there to keep it from pressing away from the int shaft and keep it flush with the the inside of the case? I agree with Brian that another bearing that was better would be the best, but until it is found......
What about some type of girdle that goes over the top of the of the diff and bolts over the bearing support on the left and the ext housing and a second piece that goes under the diff and does the same. It could be one piece but I was thinking 2 piece for ease of install and working around. Guess it would be "sort of" like the 525 girdle.

[BadAssPerformance]

Really would need to get soem high speed video of one on a run to see how/where it is flexing.

Well, after a busy week with working on the car and the day job, including driving to Detroit and back today... thrashing more this evening... IT RUNS AGAIN! ... and its on radials and I'm about to print out the insurance card so i can drive it to the show tomorrow :thumb:

Because Street Car.

[turbovanman²]

Pics of said carnage, :censored:

Mine's nearly always insured, pfffffffttttttttttt.

[BadAssPerformance]

Carnage!
-Walked off bearing race
-Cracked 3rd gear syncro ring
-Worn bearing support plate

Changed Parts:
-different 3rd gear (the one that came out last year)
-different used 3 & 4 syncro rings
-different used bearing support plate
-swapped 1 and 2 syncro rings back-forth, who needs syncro on 1st? LOL
-doubled up sprinsg on sliders

Shift fork pad update:
-New material working MUCH better than old material, see side by side picture
-put work pads back in to get more testing on them

[BadAssPerformance]

Update on 600 lb/in springs on the street... Cruised to the "Fall Color" car show yesterday and it rode well, even over some bumps. I did turn the front to "full soft" before the crusie tho. Some folks might not like it, but I prefer to feel the road. :thumb: .... and this REALLY makes me want to start on the next project, road race Shadow/CSX :)

34070

[bakes]

JT just watch for cracks on the firewall above the exhaust tunnel with higher rate springs ( you need to find them when they are starting and fix them while they are small ) this is where a full roll cage helps take the flex out of the body.

[Aries_Turbo]

looks good. you really need wheel spacers to bring those srt rims to the edge of the body. the car makes those 17's look tiny.

Brian

[Rampage16V]

Man JT you must be getting good at doing those trannies. I still have the case from the parts I gave you last year if you want it let me know

I've also tac welded that race on before
:)


Carnage!
-Walked off bearing race
-Cracked 3rd gear syncro ring
-Worn bearing support plate

Changed Parts:
-different 3rd gear (the one that came out last year)
-different used 3 & 4 syncro rings
-different used bearing support plate
-swapped 1 and 2 syncro rings back-forth, who needs syncro on 1st? LOL
-doubled up sprinsg on sliders

Shift fork pad update:
-New material working MUCH better than old material, see side by side picture
-put work pads back in to get more testing on them

[BadAssPerformance]

JT just watch for cracks on the firewall above the exhaust tunnel with higher rate springs ( you need to find them when they are starting and fix them while they are small ) this is where a full roll cage helps take the flex out of the body.

Where, got pics? It has a 10pt cage...


looks good. you really need wheel spacers to bring those srt rims to the edge of the body. the car makes those 17's look tiny.

Brian

Thansk, adn yes, they do need to be spaced out a bit... or widened to 7.5" would look good too!

---------- Post added at 06:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 PM ----------


Man JT you must be getting good at doing those trannies. I still have the case from the parts I gave you last year if you want it let me know

I've also tac welded that race on before
:)

Practice makes perfect, LOL.. oie

Looking at this one, i could use that case :o BTW, thanks again for those parts, more and more go into this one as time goes on

[Reaper1]

How the crap do you crack a synchro ring!? It looks like it started at a high stress point. It looks more and more like we REALLY need to do some research into doing full face dog conversions. I'm thinking we've found the point at which our stock 20 year old transmissions are raising the white flag. Honestly, for the age of the parts, design, and the fact they are FWD I still find it VERY impressive we can shove that amount of torque through them and only now are we having major issues.

It's been a while since I've been into a 3-plane shift transmission, so what caused the bearing plate wear?

Cracks on the firewall on 87/88 G-bodies are VERY common. Mine has it and it had it even with the stock springs. I've known of at least 2 other '88 G-bodies with the same issue, but both were T-top cars (mine is a solid top). It happens on the firewall just where the transmission tunnel starts, which is usually covered up by the heat shield. I plan to fix it some day and reinforce the front structure of the car, probably with a cage.

[BadAssPerformance]

I think the syncro ring just cracked from abuse.

I think the bearing plate got hammered from the walking off race pushing on the front of the case

Stumbled onto the original swap thread so I merged them into this one

[135sohc]

An updated chromoly bearing plate would be nice for the 523/568.

[turbovanman²]

Wow, alot of wear on those fork pads, how long have they been in there?

Agreed with Brian, you need to space the rims out.

My van's firewall has cracked twice, I've seen it on other TM's alot.

[BadAssPerformance]

An updated chromoly bearing plate would be nice for the 523/568.

Part of the reason the CM plate helps on the 555/520 is that it is flat compared to the OE stamped ones. The 568/523 plate is actually ground flat on the one side, and has two more bolts. Every bit helps but not sure if a CM plate would help too much?


Wow, alot of wear on those fork pads, how long have they been in there?

Agreed with Brian, you need to space the rims out.

My van's firewall has cracked twice, I've seen it on other TM's alot.

Thats a lot? have you seen what happens to the plastic ones with a couple missed shifts?

[turbovanman²]

Thats a lot? have you seen what happens to the plastic ones with a couple missed shifts?

Nope, haven't seen a really bad 5 speed yet, except for the main shaft wear.

[135sohc]

The ragged stamping marks from the worn out dies and the wavvy grinding marks where someone took a hand grinder to dress the edge down just adds character right ?

More from a wear standpoint. Even in my very nice condition 523 with all of ~90hp~ abusing it. The rear bearing race still managed to pound an indentation into the steel plate. Enough to add some endplay into the equation.

[BadAssPerformance]

I dont have too many pics handy of messed up ones, but I have seen them in many trans' I've had apart.

The pic with the 568 3-4 pads with chunks missing are the ones that came out of this trans when the original brass ones went in the car. The two 555 fork/pad pics are hard to see but the pads are all squished out

[Aries_Turbo]

i can partially see what simon is saying. there is definitely a groove worn in the bronze and you havent had it in there all that long. how long will it be before that bronze is gone.

on the other hand, a plastic shift fork pad lasts darn near forever if a wildman isnt yanking the ---- out of the gear lever.

the bronze will handle your gorilla tug when you get the timing wrong on the shift or it just is mad at you whereas the plastic will break.

but when shifted smooth and clean, the plastic seems like it will outlast the bronze strictly from a wear/thickness standpoint.

on a racecar that sees some street duty (be honest..... :)) with a madman at the helm, the bronze is definitely needed.

for the rest of us, i'd rather have plastic. id really hate to have to tear down a gearbox just to replace those pads when they wear out.

i wonder how polished steel/cast iron/stainless would hold up as a fork pad.

brian

[Reeves]

and I'm starting to learn enough about these things to start trying to design stuff.

Like the equal length header and the scatter shields? LMAO.....sorry.....couldn't let that go untouched...



I think the bearing plate got hammered from the walking off race pushing on the front of the case


I would say even if the race wasn't walking off, that the plate was being hammered. Mine does the same thing and it's CM. It's the pinion gear trying to *unscrew* itself from the ring gear that hammers the plate. This also seems to allow the plate to flex, and then the input shaft bearing is allowed to walk back. Then, next thing you know, your damn input shaft is loose on the preload. :banghead:




An updated chromoly bearing plate would be nice for the 523/568.

I'm thinking something that won't flex, but hopefully not crack either.


More from a wear standpoint. Even in my very nice condition 523 with all of ~90hp~ abusing it. The rear bearing race still managed to pound an indentation into the steel plate. Enough to add some endplay into the equation.

Right.

[turbovanman²]

Funny Reeves, so are the headers ready yet? How about NOW? :fencing:

What about making a thicker plate and maybe putting a hardened ring in the plate where the bearing push's up?

[shackwrrr]

I still dont see why people are fretting about the shift fork pads. They have used bronze pads for years with no issue. The slider groove could use some polishing and round off the corners a bit. If they lasted this long in JTs trans where the plastic only lasted a few runs I see them lasting a long time in a daily driver. If you could get some more I would love to try them out. I heeltoe shifting gets pretty fun here in the hills.

[Reeves]

I'd like to have a set! For a 555 of course.

[BadAssPerformance]

i can partially see what simon is saying. there is definitely a groove worn in the bronze and you havent had it in there all that long. how long will it be before that bronze is gone.

on the other hand, a plastic shift fork pad lasts darn near forever if a wildman isnt yanking the ---- out of the gear lever.

Yes, there is a slight groove, BUT its still intact, not smashed up like on emissed shift will do to the plastic ones. The pics I posted of plastic were were out of regular use trans', not my gorilla gear jammin'...


for the rest of us, i'd rather have plastic. id really hate to have to tear down a gearbox just to replace those pads when they wear out.

i wonder how polished steel/cast iron/stainless would hold up as a fork pad.

You think brass will wear out before plastic, then suggest steel? seriously?

Thank you, please come again.


Like the equal length header and the scatter shields? LMAO.....sorry.....couldn't let that go untouched...

LOL... ya got me there man!

The header is still in testing... did anyone see the SS prototype at SDAC-21? ;)

Bronse pads are in testing too... Maybe MiniMopar will chime in (in the fork pad thread) on how they are holding up in his DAILY DRIVER.


I would say even if the race wasn't walking off, that the plate was being hammered. Mine does the same thing and it's CM. It's the pinion gear trying to *unscrew* itself from the ring gear that hammers the plate. This also seems to allow the plate to flex, and then the input shaft bearing is allowed to walk back. Then, next thing you know, your damn input shaft is loose on the preload. :banghead:

Yeah... I got that going on too... just hopng it lives trhu Monster Mopar, LOL! :thumb:[/QUOTE]


Funny Reeves, so are the headers ready yet? How about NOW? :fencing:

What about making a thicker plate and maybe putting a hardened ring in the plate where the bearing push's up?

With Reeves' 4-sped idea, you could box the end of the case with a 1/2" thick plate! :evil:


I still dont see why people are fretting about the shift fork pads. They have used bronze pads for years with no issue. The slider groove could use some polishing and round off the corners a bit. If they lasted this long in JTs trans where the plastic only lasted a few runs I see them lasting a long time in a daily driver. If you could get some more I would love to try them out. I heeltoe shifting gets pretty fun here in the hills.


I'd like to have a set! For a 555 of course.

Yeah, still need to write a path for those...

[Aries_Turbo]

You think brass will wear out before plastic, then suggest steel? seriously?

Thank you, please come again.

dont be an a$$, a$$. :)

my plastic ones look great... as long as i dont go crazy on the shifts. even after many many miles.

i only suggested it cause:

1. thats what the factory did via welding the forks up and machining them....

2. nice hard polished selector ring and nice hard polished shift fork pad thats well lubed and is under considerably less load than the METAL ON METAL of the differential..... im thinking it shouldnt be an issue.

Brian

[BadAssPerformance]

dont be an a$$, a$$. :)

my plastic ones look great... as long as i dont go crazy on the shifts. even after many many miles.

and maybe there is no slop in your forks/rods? Did you notice the wear on both the brass and bronze pad is off center? The fork is lose on the rod and tilts, so maybe that smore of the issue.


1. thats what the factory did via welding the forks up and machining them....

That is because it is cheaper to weld/grind than machine a custom part...25 years ago when CNC's were rare. They also did thsi on race cars, not production...


2. nice hard polished selector ring and nice hard polished shift fork pad thats well lubed and is under considerably less load than the METAL ON METAL of the differential..... im thinking it shouldnt be an issue.

Still confused why you would rank steel > plastic > brass/bronze? Do you realize that the latest bronse pads I'm using is hard as steel with better frictional properties? I didin't exactly close my eyes while flipping pages in a catalog and take the first one I saw ;)

[135sohc]

The fork wobbling on the rod isnt good. Ever bit of lost motion adds up and potentially allows for drag causing the extra wear.

[turbovanman²]

Bikes don't use anything on their shift fork pads except metal on metal and no synchro's, I've never had to replace a shift fork yet and I don't use the clutch except to downshift and starting.

[2.216VTurbo]

Man JT you must be getting good at doing those trannies. I still have the case from the parts I gave you last year if you want it let me know

I've also tac welded that race on before
:)

Uh, JT knows Trannies fer sure... He is good at doing them? Wouldn't know but sure OK:bolt:

[BadAssPerformance]

Bikes don't use anything on their shift fork pads except metal on metal and no synchro's, I've never had to replace a shift fork yet and I don't use the clutch except to downshift and starting.

Don't they have different syncro designs tho? what about the gears? pics?


Uh, JT knows Trannies fer sure... He is good at doing them? Wouldn't know but sure OK:bolt:

LOL...

[BadAssPerformance]

Made one time run in "Street Eliminator" @ Monster Mopar yesterday

Raced a gold wagon, fun to beat up on RWD Muscle Mopars :D

Cold day + a shitty burnout = not nearly enough heat in the tire until after spinning violently thru 1st gear
Not adjusting cables after having trans open + shifting 2nd while tires still spinning at 7500 RPM in 1st = missing 2nd gear

With cheezing 2nd, it was a side by side race until the 1/8 then I never saw the wagon again

Granny shifted 3 (went in great!) and 4th (not great but it went in) and the good news is the new crank sensor seemed to fix the breakup issue and also I had re-attached the connector on the data cable and it recorded the run OK! :thumb:

them ---- me
-.055---R/T---.141
1.836---60'---1.829
5.061---330---5.060
7.771---1/8---7.461
90.30---mph---106.53
10.14---1000---9.427
12.162---1/4---11.088
111.05---mph---136.63

I adjusted the shifter cable end about 1mm and it felt better in teh pits, but never got to test it at 7500 due to rain :(

[cordes]

Is that a good MPH for you? Do you think the tire spin was artificially inflating it?

[BadAssPerformance]

Is that a good MPH for you? Do you think the tire spin was artificially inflating it?

Yeah, actually maybe a new best 1/8 mph? I think it went 137 on the run vs. Warren... and yes, the spin thru 1st probably added some sling-shot mph as every time its in the 10.80's it's ~135

[BadAssPerformance]

Runs from Sunday at Test-n-Tune at Great Lakes Dragaway (Grove where SDAC-21 was)

After a crappy weather rainy week, we had some awesome weather sunny and in teh 60's :thumb:

Run #1 - Right off the trailer, 30psi, left w/o 2-step, spun thru 1, 2, granny shifted 3 and 4, but they all went in! yay! It did cut out going thru the lights tho :( but was flying! :)

R/T: .146
60': 1.766
330': 4.811
1/8ET: 7.140
1/8mph: 109.27
1000'ET: 9.083
1/4ET: 10.714
1/4mph: 138.14

Run #2 - Used 2-step, spun a bit more on launch and into 2nd, granny 3, slightly open throttle 4, AGAIN cut out top end :( but was a new best run! :D

R/T: .108
60': 1.806
330': 4.792
1/8ET: 7.063
1/8mph: 110.81 <== New best!
1000'ET: 8.996 <== New best!
1/4ET: 10.623 <== New best!
1/4mph: 138.44 <== New best!

Run #3 - dialed crank trigger out 1/8 turn and cam trigger out 1/16 turn... Similar launch an 2-step, grabbed a tad better but still spin 1, 2, granny 3 & 4.. cut out a few times in 3 and 4:( If it didnt cut out, this was the new best run...

R/T: .457
60': 1.770
330': 4.775 <== New best!
1/8ET: 7.059 <== New best!
1/8mph: 109.46
1000'ET: 9.064
1/4ET: 10.764
1/4mph: 133.90

Run #4 - dialed crank trigger in 1/4 turn from where it originally was... Similar launch an 2-step, spun more 1, 2, granny 3 cut out too much so I lifted :(

R/T: .456
60': 1.790
330': 4.823
1/8ET: 7.228
1/8mph: 103.90
1000'ET: 9.378
1/4ET: 11.499
1/4mph: 101.75

So.... still gotta trouble shoot the cut out... Step 1 I will check out the crank trigger to make sure the wheel didnt hit it and F it up.... I am beginning to think it may be the cam trigger which it really shouldn't be using for anything other than initial sync? But maybe at full boogy there is enough oil pressure its getting flooded with oil, which shouldn;t matter but not sure? or the cam is wiggling just a tad?

Video on the way...

[Shadow]

Congrates on the new PB JT. This Was a KILLER wknd of racing for our cars!!!!!!!!

[turbovanman²]

Wow, you guys are flying, :nod:

[Ubmbass]

Nice job JT! Congratulations on the new PB's

[dodgeshadowchik]

Nicely done! a littl emore than a half second from 9's. :P

[csxtra]

Nicely done! a littl emore than a half second from 9's. :P

Exactly...lengthen the injector pulse by another millisecond and adjust the NOS timer, and you'll run 9's. :eyebrows:

[Aries_Turbo]

Exactly...lengthen the injector pulse by another millisecond and adjust the NOS timer, and you'll run 9's. :eyebrows:

----.... you beat me to it......

[Directconnection]

Exactly...lengthen the injector pulse by another millisecond and adjust the NOS timer, and you'll run 9's. :eyebrows:

Spray is Ghey!

No bottle.... MORE THROTTLE!

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL thanks guys... problem is NOT power.. its traction. Hard enough to keep the 24.5's stuck as it is so I think the biggest difference will be fitting some 26's on it.

Power? Only running 29psi, conservative timing, cams are still striaght up, 11.1:1 A/F... still room to play before spray ;)

[Reeves]

Congrats JT!!!

Anything new on the shifting problems?

[tommy]

Besides he can't shift :D He said the night before he sat in the car making motor sounds and practice shifting:nod:

[Reeves]

Besides he can't shift :D He said the night before he sat in the car making motor sounds and practice shifting:nod:

LOL!

Maybe that's what I need to do. I was having problems getting mine in 3rd over the weekend :(

[turboshad]

All right, this is getting to the point of needing a "Freekin wicked @ss awesome job man" smiley. Huge congrats JT. Just when I thought I had caught up you go and make things even harder. Next year man, it's on next year. ;) TMs are taking over the world!

[Pat]

Outstading JT!

[BadAssPerformance]

Besides he can't shift :D He said the night before he sat in the car making motor sounds and practice shifting:nod:

LOL, I did tell ya that, didn't I ;)


LOL!

Maybe that's what I need to do. I was having problems getting mine in 3rd over the weekend :(

Did you double up the springs on the sliders? I did that last time ti was apart and think DJ had great idea!


All right, this is getting to the point of needing a "Freekin wicked @ss awesome job man" smiley. Huge congrats JT. Just when I thought I had caught up you go and make things even harder. Next year man, it's on next year. ;) TMs are taking over the world!

Thanks DJ! I'm not sure if I'd drive it from Edmonton to Mayland tho so you definitely got me there bro! :hail:

[moparman76_69]

Exactly...lengthen the injector pulse by another millisecond and adjust the NOS timer, and you'll run 9's. :eyebrows:

JT needs one of these.

34378


One of the big ones. Actually, let's make it two.

http://www.torquecars.com/images/nos-bottle.jpg


And, Warren, He needs it by tonight.

[BadAssPerformance]

^^^ LOL.... That would do it! Although it is smoking the tires off the line without it :o

OK, I think I finally figured out something with the cut out issue... I'm 99% sure it is not fuel as I watched the fuel gauge every run yesterday

New crank trigger seems tro be working well...
It ONLY happens at the top end... so not high RPM related as such as it see's higehr RPM in 1,2 and 3....
It gets worse as the day goes on, sometimes not at all on the 1st run, but very bad on the last runs in 3rd and 4th gear...
I noticed some oil dripping from the cam sensor mount...
It has only done it this year after switching to 5w30 from 10w40...

Hmmm..... It is a non-magnetic sensor, MSD #2346

So I asked the internet if oil is an issue, and found:

http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=76964.0
http://www.msdignition.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8586

So, being a "batch" and "WS coil" setup, I'm going to put the cam sensor on a switch so it only see's it at startup... Got this tip from Kish as he did that on his SS Neon.

[Reeves]

Did you double up the springs on the sliders? I did that last time ti was apart and think DJ had great idea!

Yup :mecry:

[BadAssPerformance]

Hmmm... cable/bushing issue?



Videos from Sunday below... note smokin tire on at least one run... time for 26's


Right off the trailer JT 10.71 (new PB for now)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kuEXnYK5_8

JT Run #2 - New PB 10.62
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfG8YlXSVtk

JT Run #3 - 10.76 breaking up in 3 and 4 :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kFwcGbZRJg

JT Run #4 - 11.49 breaking up in 3 so bad lifted :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knas9QL_mZw

[2.216VTurbo]

Nic vids and congrats on the PB. :clap: to the camera person too:)

[turbo2point2]

Nic vids and congrats on the PB. :clap: to the camera person too:)

+1 Nice Job JT!!

[Clay]

congrates on the new pb jt.

peanut butter jelly time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[turbovanman²]

Have you tried "treating" your slicks to make them stickier?

[BadAssPerformance]

My last set of 24.5's got coated (for a week) with VHT... took them out an dthey were STICKY and SOFT and I had a couple good runs on them... until the left one popped in 4th gear... yep a mid 11 @ 120+ on 3 tires is kinda scary! and hard to stop! and luckily Bogarts are repairable but still not cheap :(

Those were pretty old, so not sure the VHT had anything to do with it, but when I got the new set they had warnings all over them not to treat them. And with the new ones the car went 10's for the first time first trip out...

[turbovanman²]

Interesting. There are other ways to treat, maybe one day, I'll try it, lol.

[BadAssPerformance]

Nic vids and congrats on the PB. :clap: to the camera person too:)


+1 Nice Job JT!!


peanut butter jelly time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL, thanks guys. Still hoping to make it out again this year!

---------- Post added at 12:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 PM ----------


Interesting. There are other ways to treat, maybe one day, I'll try it, lol.

Pretty sure I posted pics (in this thread) after it happened and you could see the cords seperate on th einside of not only the one that went flat, but the other side too. I might try it again, but less aggressively, and after I forget that there are scrape makes on the oil pan from the track! :eek:

[contraption22]

Awesome work there, JT!

[moparman76_69]

peanut butter jelly time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hate you so much right now. Just because you did that.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8MDNFaGfT4

[BadAssPerformance]

Anyone ever have a vibration (feels like tire shake) that immediately goes away as soon as you pedal the throttle?

Wondering if something is working itself free in the trans again?

[turbovanman²]

Anyone ever have a vibration (feels like tire shake) that immediately goes away as soon as you pedal the throttle?

Wondering if something is working itself free in the trans again?

Inner CV joint?

[135sohc]

Notice any extra noise when that pinion bearing race was walking off the shaft ?

[BadAssPerformance]

No noise from the intermediate shaft bearing walking off... but its making noise now... might be that bearing, or might be the input shaft as it was kinda sloppy too :(

[135sohc]

Have you ever changed the input bearings in all your messing with it ? Those are cheap and super common atleast..

[BadAssPerformance]

OK, changes since the last time out...

-new cam sensor
-added a switch on the cam sensor so i can try to turn it off so see if that is the issue
-removed "Daytona" logo mud flaps
-massages fenders
-rented SebringLX 26" MT ET Drags THANKS AGAIN!

Runs from Sunday Import War / Test-n-Tune at Great Lakes Dragaway (Grove where SDAC-21 was)

Run #1 - Right off the trailer, cold tires, light burnout, No 2-step, felt OK out of the hole then felt like it spun (or clutch spun) in 2, pedaled it then cutout and died in 3rd... BOOM! Thought I blew it up! Guess it tries to look for the cam sensor when it tries to re-fire... coasted off the track :( Checked it out and fired up on return road and drove to pits :)

R/T: 1.906
60': 1.773
330': 5.087
1/8ET: 7.824
1/8mph: 95.67
1000'ET: 9.959
1/4ET: 11.995
1/4mph: 101.64

Run #2 - Cam switch on. Little better burnout, No 2-step, launch felt good, best 60' of the day! and seemed to hook in 2 and 3! till it broke up in 3rd and 4th :(

R/T: .346
60': 1.700
330': 4.674 <== New best!
1/8ET: 7.013 <== New best!
1/8mph: 108.19
1000'ET: 9.010
1/4ET: 10.810
1/4mph: 119.66

Run #3 - Cam switch off. No 2-step, died on the launch, had to restart and drive the rest of the way, made a 3rd gear pull the whole track long... brokr up more.. confirmed need cam signal

R/T: 1.612
60': 2.149
330': 10.304
1/8ET: 14.798
1/8mph: 58.13
1000'ET: 17.883
1/4ET: 20.147
1/4mph: 95.02

Run #4 - dialed crank trigger OUT a 1/2 turn... No 2-step, launch OK, granny 2, OK, granny shifted 3 and SHAKE, pedal, smooth, granny shifted 4 SHAKE, pedal, smooth... WTF!? At least NO break up!! :)

R/T: .096
60': 1.744
330': 4.807
1/8ET: 7.202
1/8mph: 105.68
1000'ET: 9.187
1/4ET: 10.911
1/4mph: 130.96

Run #5 - Tried 2-step, launch OK, spun more, granny 2, OK, granny shifted 3 and SHAKE, pedal, smooth, granny shifted 4 SHAKE, pedal, smooth... AGAIN, WTF!? ...and it cut out in 4 :(

R/T: .131
60': 1.756
330': 4.746
1/8ET: 7.103
1/8mph: 106.85
1000'ET: 9.089
1/4ET: 10.806
1/4mph: 130.49

It made some gearlash transy type noises loading it on the trailer... Right now, not sure if the shake is the tires or in the trans? The last time out with the 24.5's it shook all the way thru 2 an dI just rode it out, this time, 3rd and 4th are a tad faster so didnt want to chance it if it wa a tire (or trans)...

Huge THANK YOU to SebringLX for the rental slicks! :thumb: Sorry I didnt get a new PB on them, might be able to get out again if I get time to go thru the trans...

---------- Post added at 05:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:48 PM ----------


Have you ever changed the input bearings in all your messing with it ? Those are cheap and super common atleast..

Nope... same that has been in it since I got it

I forget, does the trans have to come out to get the front one?

[135sohc]

Yup.. Press the race out of the case and readjust the endplay/preload. Timken set-4 and set-5

[Reeves]

JT, you can set the preload on the input bearings without taking the trans apart, but you do have to take it out. It's real easy to set the preload.

But, I have had the kind of shake you are experiencing in a bone stock 555 in a slightly hopped up Shelby Z and it was the diff bearings getting loose.

Also, I have had the kind of shake you talk about in my OMNI when the CV's are getting loose.

[SebringLX]

Huge THANK YOU to SebringLX for the rental slicks! :thumb: Sorry I didnt get a new PB on them, might be able to get out again if I get time to go thru the trans...

New best 330' and 1/8, so it had to be headed in that direction. :thumb: Wish I could have come out and watched, but I did not feel like a 2 hour drive with what all that Chili from the night before was trying to do to me. :p Any video?

I've only ever had shake on those tires on decel after a run, which was due to a lug nut I didn't tighten properly. Tightened it, and no more shake. Unfortunately it doesn't sound like that was your issue. Hopefully you can get things sorted out and get some more runs in before the track closes for the season, which I'm guessing is soon.

[turboshad]

How did the 26s fit JT? What width? Have you lowered your car at all? My 24.5s are close to being done and I was thinking of giving the 26s a shot next year but I don't know how much they grow or how close they can be to the fender since they will be sticking out some.

[Pat]

Are you sure the shake isn't the clutch slipping? I've had clutch slip with copper/ceramic 4 puck clutches that really gave the car a high frequency shake/vibration. Pedal it, let the clutch grab and go and the shake was gone. You may be spinning the clutch.

[BadAssPerformance]

JT, you can set the preload on the input bearings without taking the trans apart, but you do have to take it out. It's real easy to set the preload.

But, I have had the kind of shake you are experiencing in a bone stock 555 in a slightly hopped up Shelby Z and it was the diff bearings getting loose.

Also, I have had the kind of shake you talk about in my OMNI when the CV's are getting loose.

Interesting... I was kinda thinking Diff mayeb too... I'll try to see if I can figure out if there is any play.


How did the 26s fit JT? What width? Have you lowered your car at all? My 24.5s are close to being done and I was thinking of giving the 26s a shot next year but I don't know how much they grow or how close they can be to the fender since they will be sticking out some.

I took pics and will post those. the 24.5's rubbe the gfx so I had to massage quite a bit to get clearance for the 26's


New best 330' and 1/8, so it had to be headed in that direction. :thumb: Wish I could have come out and watched, but I did not feel like a 2 hour drive with what all that Chili from the night before was trying to do to me. :p Any video?

I've only ever had shake on those tires on decel after a run, which was due to a lug nut I didn't tighten properly. Tightened it, and no more shake. Unfortunately it doesn't sound like that was your issue. Hopefully you can get things sorted out and get some more runs in before the track closes for the season, which I'm guessing is soon.

Yeah chili power is not always a good thing waiting int he staging lanes too, LOL!

Grove is open till snow flies, so we'll see!


Are you sure the shake isn't the clutch slipping? I've had clutch slip with copper/ceramic 4 puck clutches that really gave the car a high frequency shake/vibration. Pedal it, let the clutch grab and go and the shake was gone. You may be spinning the clutch.

Interesting... You mean pedal the throttle, not the clutch, right?

On the one run, it did seem like it spun the clutch in 2 and I pedalled the clutch and it stuck.. no shake that time in 2 tho...

[BadAssPerformance]

A fun day at Grove today! Possibly the last TnT at Grove, forecasted to be 60°F and sunny, but cloudy and WINDY ... Thanks to 22shelby, tommy and Nicole coming out to crew! :thumb:

OK, changes since the last time out...

-found clutch cable clip popped off - fixed
-backed off crank trigger to max 0.090"

Run #1 - Right off the trailer, cold tires, light burnout, No 2-step, spin, shake and fight for traction in 1, granny shifted, shake in 2, 3 and 4. Each gear shook a little, then cleaned up OK... best part, no cut out! :)

R/T: 0.982
60': 1.852
330': 4.864
1/8ET: 7.183
1/8mph: 109.06
1000'ET: 9.122
1/4ET: 10.790
1/4mph: 135.64

Run #2 - Took tire pressure down a tad, light burnout, No 2-step, spin, then hook/bog in 1, granny shifted, shake in 2, 3 and 4. Each gear shook a little, then cleaned up OK... best part, no cut out again, and a new PB! :)

R/T: .058
60': 1.734
330': 4.702
1/8ET: 7.010 <== New best!
1/8mph: 109.43
1000'ET: 8.942 <== New best!
1/4ET: 10.580 <== New best!
1/4mph: 137.95

Run #3 - Lowered tire pressure to match previous run, increased front struts 1/2 turn, light burnout, Tried 4900 rpm 2-step, spin hard, granny shifted, shake in 2 and 3, cut out :( so coasted

R/T: .621
60': 1.933
330': 4.911
1/8ET: 7.217
1/8mph: 109.55
1000'ET: 9.252
1/4ET: 11.254
1/4mph: 106.18

Run #4 - Cleaned oil off cam sensor, backed it off a turn, Lowered tire pressure to match previous run, light burnout, launch, and POP goes the ??? :(

No forward or reverse, no oil coming out, no axle banging around... no noise when pushing it back to the trailer.

The good news... It's no the oil pump! LOL!

So, maybe it wasn't tire shake, but something else on its way out?

Soooo, Take your bets!

-DSS Level 5 Axle?
-OBX diff?
-Input Shaft?
-ACT SRT-4 Clutch?

Again, a Huge THANK YOU to SebringLX for the rental slicks! :thumb: I got a new PB on them for ya! :thumb: and will be buying some 26's of my own.. now to decide which brand? I REALLY like the M&H 24.5's, but these MT's are nice too!

[Directconnection]

10.5 at 138mph:clap:

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks! ... with some broken parts too, LOL! :D

[Rampage16V]

1. Nice run
2. All of the above ^^
|

[22shelby]

yeah deff great run!! i was like wth just happened, when it launched it looked and sounded like it bogged big time, next thing you know a .58 comes up... i asked tommy like 4 times if i was reading it right, considering i am have eye problem right now too... i got a vid ill post it up :)

[Shadow]

A fun day at Grove today! Possibly the last TnT at Grove, forecasted to be 60°F and sunny, but cloudy and WINDY ... Thanks to 22shelby, tommy and Nicole coming out to crew! :thumb:

OK, changes since the last time out...

-found clutch cable clip popped off - fixed
-backed off crank trigger to max 0.090"

Run #1 - Right off the trailer, cold tires, light burnout, No 2-step, spin, shake and fight for traction in 1, granny shifted, shake in 2, 3 and 4. Each gear shook a little, then cleaned up OK... best part, no cut out! :)

R/T: 0.982
60': 1.852
330': 4.864
1/8ET: 7.183
1/8mph: 109.06
1000'ET: 9.122
1/4ET: 10.790
1/4mph: 135.64

Run #2 - Took tire pressure down a tad, light burnout, No 2-step, spin, then hook/bog in 1, granny shifted, shake in 2, 3 and 4. Each gear shook a little, then cleaned up OK... best part, no cut out again, and a new PB! :)

R/T: .058
60': 1.734
330': 4.702
1/8ET: 7.010 <== New best!
1/8mph: 109.43
1000'ET: 8.942 <== New best!
1/4ET: 10.580 <== New best!
1/4mph: 137.95

Run #3 - Lowered tire pressure to match previous run, increased front struts 1/2 turn, light burnout, Tried 4900 rpm 2-step, spin hard, granny shifted, shake in 2 and 3, cut out :( so coasted

R/T: .621
60': 1.933
330': 4.911
1/8ET: 7.217
1/8mph: 109.55
1000'ET: 9.252
1/4ET: 11.254
1/4mph: 106.18

Run #4 - Cleaned oil off cam sensor, backed it off a turn, Lowered tire pressure to match previous run, light burnout, launch, and POP goes the ??? :(

No forward or reverse, no oil coming out, no axle banging around... no noise when pushing it back to the trailer.

The good news... It's no the oil pump! LOL!

So, maybe it wasn't tire shake, but something else on its way out?

Soooo, Take your bets!

-DSS Level 5 Axle?
-OBX diff?
-Input Shaft?
-ACT SRT-4 Clutch?

Again, a Huge THANK YOU to SebringLX for the rental slicks! :thumb: I got a new PB on them for ya! :thumb: and will be buying some 26's of my own.. now to decide which brand? I REALLY like the M&H 24.5's, but these MT's are nice too!

Nice to see you get that 10.5 BEFORE she popped!!!!

Good news is your prob going to solve your tire shake now! :thumb: (I'm thinking something in the diff area to the tire)

[cordes]

Congrats on the new PB JT.

I don't have a good educated guess for the trans right now, but It very well could be an axle. I would be impressed if you broke an input shaft.

[22shelby]

VID!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5HmdaMfJv4

[135sohc]

Twisted the center out of the clutch disc.

[SebringLX]

Awesome! I just got back from an extended ANG drill weekend. So how much better than your previous PB was that, .2?

[rx2mazda]

Congrats JT! You putting down some sick numbers for such a heavy car. Tire shake breaks sh*t(as you can see)so maybe it's better that you get to figure it out now before next season.

[BadAssPerformance]

Nice to see you get that 10.5 BEFORE she popped!!!!

Thansk, yeah, too bad it popped, it finally hooked on that run! LOL!


Awesome! I just got back from an extended ANG drill weekend. So how much better than your previous PB was that, .2?

Best on the 24.5's was a 10.61 (spinning into 3rd) so not too much better YET but should be able to do much better now that it can hook! Thanks again for the slick rental! :thumb:


Congrats JT! You putting down some sick numbers for such a heavy car. Tire shake breaks sh*t(as you can see)so maybe it's better that you get to figure it out now before next season.

Thanks! And yeah, got some time to figure it out... still nto sure if the shake was cause by the tires or cause the tire shake...

Is the axle supposed to do this? LOL!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmttnHxq1V4

---------- Post added at 12:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 PM ----------


Congrats on the new PB JT.

I don't have a good educated guess for the trans right now, but It very well could be an axle. I would be impressed if you broke an input shaft.

Thanks! ... after further diagnosis, I'm ruling input shaft out (for now)


Twisted the center out of the clutch disc.

I guess you could do that with a solid hub but think it would make noise?

[BadAssPerformance]

VID!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5HmdaMfJv4

Awesome footage! Thanks again! Wow... guess the 2-step was a TAD too much for the track to hold

[135sohc]

I thought you were still using a sprung disc ? http://www.badassperformance.com/mrides/z/08_specs/act-disk.jpg

[BadAssPerformance]

Yeah, I need to update that... That disc was worn out so I put a solid hub in this season same plate and flywheel, just a disk swap

[turboshad]

Sweet run JT! :clap: Just when I thought I was catching up to you you go and do something like this. ;) That would suck if it were the axles. How much stronger can you get? Are those ends from DSS CM or just the shafts?

[turbovanman²]

Nice run, those black wheels look awesome, :nod:

Could you be the first to break an OBX diff? :wow1:

I would guess you sheered off the input shaft splines on the cv axle.

[Shadow]

Is the axel in that video just spinning with the diff stationary? (other tire planted) If so you just sheared of the axle at the splines like I did last fall.

Good news = easy fix, bad new = doesn't explain tire shake.

What PSI where you running the 26's down to?

[BadAssPerformance]

Sweet run JT! :clap: Just when I thought I was catching up to you you go and do something like this. ;) That would suck if it were the axles. How much stronger can you get? Are those ends from DSS CM or just the shafts?

Thanks! DSS axles haev CM ends, the L5 adds a 300m center bar


Nice run, those black wheels look awesome, :nod:

Could you be the first to break an OBX diff? :wow1:

I would guess you sheered off the input shaft splines on the cv axle.

Thanks! Those are SebringLX's Motegi's, they do look nice!

Maybe... the jury is still out


Is the axel in that video just spinning with the diff stationary? (other tire planted) If so you just sheared of the axle at the splines like I did last fall.

Good news = easy fix, bad new = doesn't explain tire shake.

What PSI where you running the 26's down to?

Both tires in the air, the vid was of spinning drivers side by hand and the passenger side was not rotating. Same if the passenger side spins, no DS movement.

Did you see the axle moving in and out while spinning?

Also, can push the car around the garage w/o noise.... in any gear! LOL!

Only got the tires down to 10psi ... they were too cold

[Shadow]

Did you see the axle moving in and out while spinning?

Also, can push the car around the garage w/o noise.... in any gear! LOL!

Only got the tires down to 10psi ... they were too cold

Yep, looked like it was moving in and out a bit. Can you feel the diff turning when you spin/ move it back and forth? If you broke the axel shaft at the splines you should be able to feel the axel on the DS just move freely without the weight of the diff. But when you turn the pass side you should be able to feel the weight of the diff.

[BadAssPerformance]

Yep, looked like it was moving in and out a bit. Can you feel the diff turning when you spin/ move it back and forth? If you broke the axel shaft at the splines you should be able to feel the axel on the DS just move freely without the weight of the diff. But when you turn the pass side you should be able to feel the weight of the diff.

I'll try that. I'll also try to turn by hand with it in gear...

[Pat]

You sure that's tire shake? Sounds like your clutch is slipping on the shifts to me in the video. That can feel like tire shake.

[22shelby]

we started out with 11 1/4 psi @ 80 degrees and he said the shake was better than the previous run, so we dropped the pressure down again down to 10 1/4 @ 80 degrees.

[Shadow]

You sure that's tire shake? Sounds like your clutch is slipping on the shifts to me in the video. That can feel like tire shake.

I think this was brought up before, but JT was pretty sure it wasn't the clutch. (can't remember why though)

But I deff agree that slipping ceramic puc clutch = feels like tire shake, been there, done that and it took me two full days of drag racing to figure it out!

I'm sure you all remember the dreaded 2nd gear launch on 26" slicks to "test" the clutch. :eyebrows:

[Turbo3Iroc]

Nice run, those black wheels look awesome, :nod:

Could you be the first to break an OBX diff? :wow1:

I would guess you sheered off the input shaft splines on the cv axle.

I broke a DSS axle at the splines and they warrantied it. Said they aren't designed to break in that fashion. Thought I had a pic of it but can not find it.

[John B]

I broke a DSS axle at the splines and they warrantied it. Said they aren't designed to break in that fashion. Thought I had a pic of it but can not find it. An L-3 or L-5?

[turbo2point2]

Way to go JT!! I had a feeling new rubber would help a bunch. No hard decision on the tire brand, stick with the MT's.

[turboshad]

No hard decision on the tire brand, stick with the MT's.

Have you had better luck with MTs over M&H or Hoosier?

JT, do you think you could fit a 26x10 in there?

[ohiorob]

Way to go JT. to bad about the tranny or what ever it is. so whats your plans for the car this winter?

[turbo2point2]

Have you had better luck with MTs over M&H or Hoosier?

JT, do you think you could fit a 26x10 in there?

Yes, I had run the M&H 26x10 early on, and swapped to a MT- instant better 60' and more consistant.

[Turbo3Iroc]

An L-3 or L-5?

L3 but there is no difference on the spline ends.

[Reeves]

Awesome on the new PB JT!

My guess is you snapped the axle inside the diff.

[BadAssPerformance]

You sure that's tire shake? Sounds like your clutch is slipping on the shifts to me in the video. That can feel like tire shake.

I'll have to watch the video again and turn up the volume, all i thought I heard was tire spin?


Way to go JT!! I had a feeling new rubber would help a bunch. No hard decision on the tire brand, stick with the MT's.


Yes, I had run the M&H 26x10 early on, and swapped to a MT- instant better 60' and more consistant.

Interesting, good info. Why do you think that is? Have you ever run the 26x8's of either brand?


Have you had better luck with MTs over M&H or Hoosier?

JT, do you think you could fit a 26x10 in there?

Might have to do more body work for steering clearance....


Way to go JT. to bad about the tranny or what ever it is. so whats your plans for the car this winter?

Thanks! Right now, only plans are:

Figure out what broke
Get some 26" tires of my own
Tidy up the bodywork
Inspect/replace oil pump for piece of mind

Once I get traction I can worry about trying to make more power as I had put that off for a while... heck, the cal isn't even done yet and cams are still straight up!


Awesome on the new PB JT!

My guess is you snapped the axle inside the diff.

Thanks! Yeah, leaning towards axle or diff... might look at it tonight

[turbovanman²]

Figured it out yet? How about NOW? :p

[Shadow]

Yes, I had run the M&H 26x10 early on, and swapped to a MT- instant better 60' and more consistant.

Interesting as I alway liked the M/T 24.5's I was running, but most other's told me M&H's hook way better? I personally think it has everything to do with how you heat them up.

Are the M/T's the Exact same size as the 26 x 10 M&H's?

[turboshad]

Might have to do more body work for steering clearance....


All of the 1/4 mile tracks in my neck of the woods are straight. 25 point turn at the top end FTW :D

[Shadow]

All of the 1/4 mile tracks in my neck of the woods are straight. 25 point turn at the top end FTW :D

Damn, are you telling me there are Crooked 1/4 mile tracks out there? :confused: I'll have to watch for that as I'd hate to have to negotiate a "surprise" hairpin at 140mph!!!!! :mad::(;):lol::D:):):)

[rx2mazda]

Damn, are you telling me there are Crooked 1/4 mile tracks out there? :confused: I'll have to watch for that as I'd hate to have to negotiate a "surprise" hairpin at 140mph!!!!! :mad::(;):lol::D:):):)

you haven't hit 140mph in the 1/4 mile............:evil:
















I haven't hit 14mph lol

[Shadow]

you haven't hit 140mph in the 1/4 mile............:evil:


Well, if you really want to see that, then maybe slippery track is good. I'd just have to spin to a 10.5- 10.6 and that Should bring me over 140MPH ;)

[turbovanman²]

Hey JT, how about NOW? :lol:

[Reeves]

Now?






























How about now?

[SebringLX]

Damn, are you telling me there are Crooked 1/4 mile tracks out there? :confused: I'll have to watch for that as I'd hate to have to negotiate a "surprise" hairpin at 140mph!!!!! :mad::(;):lol::D:):):)

There's a 1/4 mile oval at the local Speedway here. ;) They do "Spectator Drags" every once in a while, I haven't raced in one yet, but I've watched them once... 2 cars line up and do 1 lap around the oval, 1st to the finish wins.

[Khajjathefang]

Damn, are you telling me there are Crooked 1/4 mile tracks out there? :confused: I'll have to watch for that as I'd hate to have to negotiate a "surprise" hairpin at 140mph!!!!! :mad::(;):lol::D:):):)

If you ever find yourself in central texas check out temple/academy dragway. Its right next to a river and the bend forces the coast down area to bend off to the left. watched a girl flip a jr dragster from that once

[BadAssPerformance]

Now?

How about now?

Still hibernating...

[Reeves]

Still hibernating...

Ah, wtf....even the bears are up by now!

[BadAssPerformance]

Ah, wtf....even the bears are up by now!

I'm waiting for my scatter shield ;) :p

[Reeves]

I'm waiting for my scatter shield ;) :p

And I'm waiting on shift fork pads :P

[BadAssPerformance]

and i'm waiting on shift fork pads :p

lol...

[Rampage16V]

JT I have that 568 case cleaned and ready to go.

[BadAssPerformance]

Awesome! :thumb: thanks again

[Reeves]

JT I have that 568 case cleaned and ready to go.

Want to clean some 520/555 cases for me??? :thumb:

[135sohc]

I just put them in the dishwasher when nobody else is home..

[Rampage16V]

I used the tornado parts washer at work was in there for a couple hrs. Like a big dishwasher

[Reeves]

I just put them in the dishwasher when nobody else is home..

I've done this with wheels....LOL

[Reaper1]

My father-in-law would ---- a brick if I started washing car parts in the dishwasher!! LOL

[Khajjathefang]

I've done this with wheels....LOL

Awesome

[BadAssPerformance]

A while back... well, end of last season, in discussing the last trips out and tire shake, Pat mentioned that teh shake "feel" could actually be clutch slippage. I never had that issue with the 24.5's probably cuz they were spinning? but the 26's maybe thats a possibility.

Current clutch is an SRT-4 2.4L clutch kit from ACT with HD plate and 6-puck solid hub disk. They rate this at about ~600ft-lb

For ACT, the next step up is the XT plate which is rated at ~700ft-lb

Then ACT also has a twin plate that is good for 850-1450 ft-lb

I know the XT setup will bolt right in w/o issues, and save a couple bucks, but not sure if I want to do this again...

Thoughts? Other options? Discuss :thumb:

[bakes]

I believe the twin disc has a smaller dia. then the single disc which would help with the spin up but might hinder the launch a bit

[turbovanman²]

Twin disc FTMFW. :partywoot:

[BadAssPerformance]

Not sure why I asked over there but... for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f213/wanted-clutch-upgrade-options-act-hd-6-puck-624912/#post9497199

[Aries_Turbo]

i think they already assume you have a T850 trans.

Brian

[BadAssPerformance]

yep, lol

[Reeves]

Not sure why I asked over there but...

Me neither.... LOL

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL right

[Rampage16V]

True you have enough hard core friendly racers here JT :0) ( we are not all 5 spd guys though)

[Reeves]

hard core friendly racers here ( we are not all 5 spd guys though)

^No such thing.....

[135sohc]

Hey BadAssPerformance.

What transmission fluid are you using?
Also, what is your spark plug gap?


Mike you are terrible :evil:

[turbovanman²]

Not sure why I asked over there but... for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f213/wanted-clutch-upgrade-options-act-hd-6-puck-624912/#post9497199

Wow, they actually gave out some decent advice, :nod:

[BadAssPerformance]

True you have enough hard core friendly racers here JT :0) ( we are not all 5 spd guys though)

I did ask here and got few replies...

I think Reeves, Rob and Alan all have different custom one off twin disc and with the 2.4L I'm pretty much looking for off the shelf NSRT4 stuff like I'm currently running.


Mike you are terrible :evil:

Terribly hilarious! :thumb:


Wow, they actually gave out some decent advice, :nod:

I'm some what impressed... maybe I coulda had more hilarity if I posted liek this:

"Yo dawgs, I got this old Dodge with an SRT-4 motor in it (well its a STRATUS motor cuz neons are for faags!) but neways I really want a BOSS clutch so my GF cant press the clutch pedal nsh!t so whatchall got? BTW, I never race at the track, thats not REAL racing homos... peace"

[turbovanman²]

I'm some what impressed... maybe I coulda had more hilarity if I posted liek this:

"Yo dawgs, I got this old Dodge with an SRT-4 motor in it (well its a STRATUS motor cuz neons are for faags!) but neways I really want a BOSS clutch so my GF cant press the clutch pedal nsh!t so whatchall got? BTW, I never race at the track, thats not REAL racing homos... peace"

That's it, lol.

[Shadow]

FWIW I've heard good things about the ACT twin for the SRT-4. Lots of fast SRT-4's are running those. (almost all the Real tune 10 and 9 sec ones IMS)

I've also heard that the Extream PP is a good upgrade for holding more power, but much stiffer on the footsie!

[BadAssPerformance]

Thansk Rob. The only thing making me think twice about the dual is the input shaft carnage... is the T850 shaft weaker looking than the A568?

[Shadow]

I have yet to lay them side by each, but I'm almost guessing the metallurgy may be different? Has Anyone Ever broke a 568 OR 555 input shaft? Not to my knowlege.....yet the SRT-4's take them out anywhere from 450WHP and up with a strong holding clutch, or solid hub.

I'm pretty sure ppl have sheared the SRT shaft on the street as well which I find the most bizarre. Couldn't imagine what I'd have to do on the street to break my small spline shaft after the beating it took last fall on 26" slicks with solid hub disc. :confused2:

[BadAssPerformance]

Metallurgy or some stress riser undercut or something... but SRT-4's are heavier which comes into play as well.

[135sohc]

That really big undercut just behind the clutch splines is probably why those shear off the end.

[BadAssPerformance]

that sounds like a stress rizer... is that somethign the T850 has? never seen one

[135sohc]

http://www.performanceautowerks.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=1661 check out how much its undercut.

[Reaper1]

Holy crap! No wonder they snap them!

[turbovanman²]

http://www.performanceautowerks.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=1661 check out how much its undercut.

Who's the dumbass that let that thru production?

[135sohc]

I read somewhere that NV-G cut the clutch splines with a broaching procedure and that requires an undercut.

[bakes]

http://www.performanceautowerks.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=1661 check out how much its undercut.wow check out the Fuse built into that .

[Reaper1]

Why not just EDM the splines?

[BadAssPerformance]

http://www.performanceautowerks.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=1661 check out how much its undercut.

holys#!t


I read somewhere that NV-G cut the clutch splines with a broaching procedure and that requires an undercut.

I could see that being a reason, room for the chips to go... Does the TO bearing use that undercut?


Why not just EDM the splines?

co$t too much in high volume production

[135sohc]

They have the tube setup like ours that the tob rides on.

[BadAssPerformance]

Gotcha

[BadAssPerformance]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy9_bvcDQUk

[30 PSI SHADOW]

you still got a muffler on that thing??

[turbovanman²]

So she's already to go?


you still got a muffler on that thing??

That's why they make cut-outs, :eyebrows:

[BadAssPerformance]

you still got a muffler on that thing??

Yep, got to, it's a street car :)

No cut-out

[Reeves]

Sounds good!

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks! Still need to put an axle in it so I can drive it LOL

[Reeves]

And clutch?? Judgement still out on that one?

Drove mine to/from gas station.....then tore the head off. LOL

[BadAssPerformance]

Doh! Thats one way to start the season out...

Leaning toward Dual but trying to confirm the size so it fits...

[Reeves]

Doh! Thats one way to start the season out...

Leaning toward Dual but trying to confirm the size so it fits...

Nah, it needed to be done and I'm just now getting to it. LOL....trans out tonight.

I'd go dual so you can give us some feedback!

[BadAssPerformance]

Gotcha...

LOL, you mean test the input shaft? ;)

[Reeves]

No, just mean testing the setup.....and the input shaft. LOL

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL, right

[Ondonti]

See you bought one...

I feel like I don't really have any fear of the input shaft breaking after seeing that picture. Hey, its just another reason I say the t850 is a terrible transmission. Anyone can make something out of nothing with a pile of money but is that even any fun at that point?

I think I would have just gone 3 puck for better shifts and more holding power. I don't think a multidisc non carbon clutch will help longevity any worse then a 3 puck single won't help. You will just way more clamp load then you need vs just more then you need. Multidisc carbon would be super super awesome.

Of course, the harder you are on the transmission, the more we can learn :D

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL, yep, we're gonna learn some shtuff this year

[turbovanman²]

So, what clutch did you buy?

[BadAssPerformance]

Twin Disk ACT

[turbovanman²]

Sweet, :nod:

[BadAssPerformance]

Hope so! LOL!

[turbovanman²]

hope so! Lol!

lol!!!!

[bakes]

Do you have to do any case mods or is bolt an go?

[Shadow]

Since he was already running an ACT set-up in there I would think it should be bolt and go...........no?

[shayne]

i thought i had read somewhere that the twin disc clutch will hit the inside of the bellhousing where the casting makes allowances for the output shaft to the diff.

[Shadow]

That may have been the twin disc set-ups that myself and Lengel are running? They needed some modding, but after the change was made to the lock-nuts holding down the diaphram to PP, even the SRT-4's had interference problems.

[BadAssPerformance]

Do you have to do any case mods or is bolt an go?


Since he was already running an ACT set-up in there I would think it should be bolt and go...........no?

I think so, IF the p-plate is the same size as the HD plate I've been running, which some pics of the SRT-4 twin disk look like, BUT some pics of the SRT-4 twin disk looks like a smaller OD plate which may be a direct A568 bolt in, pending clutch travel, of course... YES, there are contradictory pics out there, so I plan to fix that when it arrives tomorrow, LOL!


i thought i had read somewhere that the twin disc clutch will hit the inside of the bellhousing where the casting makes allowances for the output shaft to the diff.

That depends on what you mean by "the twin disk clutch" as there appears to be several out there... Alan's or Reeves, or Rob/Lengel or ACT? LOL!

... ACT assured me it is the same height as their HD plate


That may have been the twin disc set-ups that myself and Lengel are running? They needed some modding, but after the change was made to the lock-nuts holding down the diaphram to PP, even the SRT-4's had interference problems.

The SRT's had problems with the one you got or the ACT?

[Shadow]

The SRT's had problems with the one you got or the ACT?

The one I got. When it was given to Realtune to test they recomended lock nuts on the outside of the PP, as they were just lock tighted bolts running from the inside of the plate and flush to the outside on the pre-production units.

Now the pre-production had already passed several tests including 20000 street miles on a fairly stock SRT-4 and several 700+WHP dyno pulls on Kevin Warrens race SRT-4.

I can only surmise that when they swapped in longer bolts and ran them through the PP with lock-nuts on the outside that no one took the time to dble check the clearances. ppl were in such a hurry to get their clutches (I remember the thread where several ppl were getting very inpatient) that I think they were trying to keep ppl happy when they really needed just a little more time to work everything out.

All that was needed was some slight countersinking and shaving the nuts (I can already hear you guys in the background! lol) which is exactly what Lengel did to both his and my set-ups and presto! No more problems! :)

[Reeves]

That may have been the twin disc set-ups that myself and Lengel are running? They needed some modding, but after the change was made to the lock-nuts holding down the diaphram to PP, even the SRT-4's had interference problems.

Have you ran your dual disc yet?

[Shadow]

Have you ran your dual disc yet?

Nope, I'm waiting to see how Lengel does with his in a much heavier vehicle before taking the dive. + the single disk is working like a twin for me right now and giving me zero issues, so I think I would be wise to leave it in there till I have a reason to change it.

[Reeves]

That may have been the twin disc set-ups that myself and Lengel are running?


Nope, I'm waiting to see how Lengel does with his in a much heavier vehicle before taking the dive. + the single disk is working like a twin for me right now and giving me zero issues, so I think I would be wise to leave it in there till I have a reason to change it.

Aw....I thought when you said "That myself and Lengel are running" that you meant You and Lengel are running it.

[Shadow]

Slip of the tongue bro! I ALMOST put it in last fall before the last wknd BUT some wise person convinced me NOT to change ANYTHING the way the car was going. (ended up being very Good advise!)

Add to that the fact that I didn't have time to do a proper break-in and that was that.

I'm fully looking forward to the twin as I'm pretty sure it will be even nicer to drive than the single I'm running now, but it will just have to wait a little bit longer.......

[BadAssPerformance]

The one I got. ....which is exactly what Lengel did to both his and my set-ups and presto! No more problems! :)

Gotcha... cool!

Well, it WAS here, but UPS didnt leave it, so the manhunt is on!

[BadAssPerformance]

Overnighted (well, not exactly, more like UPS Grounded) parts from Japan! (well, actually this place in Cali, LOL)

3944839447

[cordes]

That looks pretty neat.

[Reeves]

BAD A!

Measure the disc O.D. when you get a chance.

[BadAssPerformance]

Will do...

Found the problem from last fall.... The DDS-L5 axle did break the end off :eek:

Good news so far.... bronze pads seemed to do well! and last round of TIG glue held the pinion shaft bearing on!

taking pics... more to come later

[cordes]

Good news except for the axle. That must take some work.

[BadAssPerformance]

I added up timeslips in one of the axle threads... over 200 passes on thsoe... can't say I'm upset.

update... clutch was spinning, hope Pat was right about that being the shake... pics to come, gotta go find a TO bearing

[BadAssPerformance]

First the fork pads... looking good to me

39455394563945739458394593946039461394623946339464 3946539466

[BadAssPerformance]

Finally confirmed.. it was the axle that broke :eek: DSS L5... although it did have over 200 passes on it since installed in 2005... can't complain too much. I already have a dialog going with DSS, will update when I know more.

39481


More TIG glue seems to be keeping the bearing race on this time!

39482


Clutch was definitely slipping, how hot does sintered metal melt at?

39483394843948539486394873948839489394903949839499


New twin disk goes in tomorrow!

394973948039491
3949539496


ACT twin disk comparisson to ACT HD plate/6-puck/race flywheel

394923949339494

[black86glhs]

That is pure sexy!!
Way more clutch than I would need but man that would be nice to have. Would to make the trans out of "transparent aluminum" so you could see it.:D;)

[Ondonti]

Thats where I always break saginaws. Caught a few of them before they actually failed (stress cracks and starting to twist off). Most axle failures I had were not complete except the last two times I went racing. I used to take things apart every 5 days and would look at the axles and start being sad.
The cracks on mine form at the edge of each spline, probably stress risers there.

The dent marks though were caused by a diff that needed a LOT more shim. I blame much of this failure on that. Other failures I blame on my left foot. I had 3-4 axles with this kind of damage.

I wonder what you do to help aleviate some of the pain the spline area must feel on a harsh engagement.

Are you letting DSS know how aggressive you are going with your clutch?
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6738/img3688zoominvz6.jpg

[dodgeshadowchik]

Yikes! I guess you have no issue with making power. lol!

[BadAssPerformance]

That is pure sexy!!
Way more clutch than I would need but man that would be nice to have. Would to make the trans out of "transparent aluminum" so you could see it.:D;)

I was thinking that when I opened it up, its too pretty to hide and let get dirty, LOL! I would have loved to see inside teh trans when the old clutch was melting... bet there were sparks.. looking at the cracks in the p-plate, very glad it was steel and not cast and also glad to have a scatter shield now!


Thats where I always break saginaws. Caught a few of them before they actually failed (stress cracks and starting to twist off). Most axle failures I had were not complete except the last two times I went racing. I used to take things apart every 5 days and would look at the axles and start being sad.
The cracks on mine form at the edge of each spline, probably stress risers there.

The dent marks though were caused by a diff that needed a LOT more shim. I blame much of this failure on that. Other failures I blame on my left foot. I had 3-4 axles with this kind of damage.

I wonder what you do to help aleviate some of the pain the spline area must feel on a harsh engagement.

Are you letting DSS know how aggressive you are going with your clutch?
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6738/img3688zoominvz6.jpg

Yeah, thats the most common place I see them break too. The difference I noticed was a stocker breaks clean off with a flat surface and this one broke more jagged like the meat in the middle wa helping out more...

The slicks/traction are what did it in, but yeah, teh clutch will add to that. I'll see what DSS will do.


Yikes! I guess you have no issue with making power. lol!

I'm hoping with better traction I can actually get into the mode of trying to make power... havn't actually tuned it well yet

[Juggy]

damn dude nice clutch!!!

id say you got every pennys worth from the old one...and then some lol!

[bakes]

Thats where I always break saginaws. Caught a few of them before they actually failed (stress cracks and starting to twist off). Most axle failures I had were not complete except the last two times I went racing. I used to take things apart every 5 days and would look at the axles and start being sad.
The cracks on mine form at the edge of each spline, probably stress risers there.

The dent marks though were caused by a diff that needed a LOT more shim. I blame much of this failure on that. Other failures I blame on my left foot. I had 3-4 axles with this kind of dam
I wonder what you do to help aleviate some of the pain the spline area must feel on a harsh engagement.


http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6738/img3688zoominvz6.jpg
I have take a small ball grinding bit and rounded the end of each flute so there was less stress risers there and it has helped a bit but it not the prefect answer to big power.

[cordes]

JT, have you weighed the two clutches, and clutch disks? I would be interested in the weight differences between the two. Although we could get a guy like yourself or DJ to see how the smaller dia would help with the disk slowing and the synchros breathing a sigh of relief.

[BadAssPerformance]

I'll weigh both assemblies today, but all i got is a cheezy bathroom scale so not too accurate... you can noticable feel there is a difference picking them each up tho. Which is nice for running out higher RPM, however actually the loss of flywheel mass momentum makes launching it more difficult and having to leave at hgher RPM... the shifting should get easier at the cost of added stress to the input shaft and everything else....

---------- Post added at 09:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 AM ----------


damn dude nice clutch!!!

id say you got every pennys worth from the old one...and then some lol!

Thanks, hope it works as good as it looks, LOL!

Every penny.... dunno man, we're all *thrifty* so I was hoping it would hold up and last longer, LOL! But havta say it did well for a while...

[Turbo3Iroc]

My DSS axle broke the same way. Long or short axle?

[turboshad]

Looks great JT! Watching you guys and your cars scares me to think of the money I'll still need to spend some day. :confused:

[BadAssPerformance]

My DSS axle broke the same way. Long or short axle?

Short one.. long one looks OK still but might send them both in to get looked at. I forget, which one did you break Kelly?


Looks great JT! Watching you guys and your cars scares me to think of the money I'll still need to spend some day. :confused:

Thanks DJ!

Still need to spend more on the car, just gotta come up with money... I'll test this sh!t, you test that crash box more and turbo, its close to what I wanted, but couldnt afford, before the used T35R went on.

Team SDAC R&D at its finest, LOL!

[Turbo3Iroc]

Short one.. long one looks OK still but might send them both in to get looked at. I forget, which one did you break Kelly?


I was trying to remember this morning, I'm pretty sure it was the short one also. I remember having to pull the other axe to beat the stub out of the diff.

It is probably in that thread where we discussed them breaking before.

[Reaper1]

I've been mulling over the different possibly processes to put splines on a shaft. I came up with a way to do it where no material is actually removed and it would actually make the metal in that area stronger.

Instead of cutting the splines out of the bar stock, why not do it like knurling or threads and squeeze them into shape? It would mean the metal would have to be annealed and also hot. Run it through a press that has the correct spline pattern on it by rolling it through 2 sets of teeth that act as gears as well as the die. Once the splines are made onto the shaft, then re-process the metal to the desired hardness and also do a surface hardening treatment, such as nitriding. If this can be done with something like 300M steel, then I think that is as close to bulletproof as can be expected with the stock diameter and spline count.

[shackwrrr]

I've been mulling over the different possibly processes to put splines on a shaft. I came up with a way to do it where no material is actually removed and it would actually make the metal in that area stronger.

Instead of cutting the splines out of the bar stock, why not do it like knurling or threads and squeeze them into shape? It would mean the metal would have to be annealed and also hot. Run it through a press that has the correct spline pattern on it by rolling it through 2 sets of teeth that act as gears as well as the die. Once the splines are made onto the shaft, then re-process the metal to the desired hardness and also do a surface hardening treatment, such as nitriding. If this can be done with something like 300M steel, then I think that is as close to bulletproof as can be expected with the stock diameter and spline count.

http://youtu.be/yJfgDiGKFpc

[Reaper1]

^^LOL Yeah! Something like that! I don't know what material they were using there, but I think that the material we would need for our application would require the heating process I described, but I could be wrong.

[BadAssPerformance]

I was trying to remember this morning, I'm pretty sure it was the short one also. I remember having to pull the other axe to beat the stub out of the diff.

It is probably in that thread where we discussed them breaking before.

Yeah, I had to pop it out that way too, LOL, came out easy tho.


I've been mulling over the different possibly processes to put splines on a shaft. I came up with a way to do it where no material is actually removed and it would actually make the metal in that area stronger.

Instead of cutting the splines out of the bar stock, why not do it like knurling or threads and squeeze them into shape? It would mean the metal would have to be annealed and also hot. Run it through a press that has the correct spline pattern on it by rolling it through 2 sets of teeth that act as gears as well as the die. Once the splines are made onto the shaft, then re-process the metal to the desired hardness and also do a surface hardening treatment, such as nitriding. If this can be done with something like 300M steel, then I think that is as close to bulletproof as can be expected with the stock diameter and spline count.

Or.... EDM a full radius spline with sperical slot ends and EDM the matching profile on the diff and wheel hubs too. ;)

[BadAssPerformance]

Update... clutch is in, trans back together, backup axles in, car is on the ground... I think I need to reduce clutch travel a tad, Rob, how much reduction did you get with the offset hole you added to the fork lever?

[Reeves]

I know that question was directed at Rob, but I did the same thing and lengthened the clutch arm and it reduced it a lot. I have about .300" travel. But, I'm going to go a little more. The arm bottoms out on the aluminum boss where the cable goes through....which is actually a good thing as it keeps travel to a minimum, but I'm going to shorten the end of the arm a tad more to get a tad more throw. My DD clutch releases at .250" and full throw is at .330".

Pics here:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?44482-Reeves-OMNI-GLH-R-Update!&p=844666&viewfull=1#post844666

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks, i rememebr seeing that now! So that amount of change reduced the throw too much?

[Reeves]

No, it worked out dang near perfect....but I'm getting a slight bit of drag on the staging rev limiter which is causing me to roll. The input shaft had got a little loose so I tightened it up figuring that was the cause, but no dice....so I'm going to make the clutch arm go up a touch higher and see what happens.

[Reaper1]

This mod also helps with pedal pressure. I had to do this when I ran the dual-diaphragm pressure plate so that I could have a somewhat tolerable pedal. Even that didn't help it that much.

[Shadow]

JT, you should still have all of the info that I forwarded to you for the clutch KC article. All info on travel ect should be there. If needs be I can forward it again, but from memory each 1/2" of length added to the arm = 1/16" throw? I'll dble check to be sure.

Just looked at my notes and it says 1" = 1/4"? Can't remember how that worked out, but in a nut shell, I installed the ACT PP and flywheel into a mock up trans and watched the PP as my bro moved the arm back and forth till we found the point to which the PP reached full extention (any further would = no more travel but you would be over extending the diaphram)

I then measured the factory set-up in the Charger and came to the conclusion I needed to add 2" to the arm to get it dead nuts on. When I looked at extending it, 2" would put it at a Bad location for using the second hole for the cable. (bad angle) So I went 1 1/2" knowing I had a bit of a window of operation to work with.

Worked flawlessly and still does. So I would say add 1 1/2" exactly the same way I did and it Should work the same, as the throw on that ACT set-up Should be comparable to the ACT SRT-4 single discs. (both work with the stock SRT-4 geometry)

[BadAssPerformance]

JT, you should still have all of the info that I forwarded to you for the clutch KC article. All info on travel ect should be there. If needs be I can forward it again, but from memory each 1/2" of length added to the arm = 1/16" throw? I'll dble check to be sure.

Cool, thanks, I still got it, forgot the throw was in there!

[STLShelbyZ]

Can't wait to see more vids Jason, thanks for the help on facebook too with my questions!

John

[turboshad]

JT, when you TIGed the bearing race on did you do anything special? Pre-heat, slow cool, filler material etc. Thx.

[135sohc]

Anyone gonna try/check Jacksons idea of drilling/tapping and adding some tiny button head screws to keep the race from pulling off ?

[turboshad]

I haven't seen or heard of this idea. I was going to machine some of the race off and put a snap ring groove on the shaft but if welding works that is waaaay easier.

[BadAssPerformance]

Can't wait to see more vids Jason, thanks for the help on facebook too with my questions!

John

I want to see more videos of it too! Always glad to help man, can't wait to see your Z! :thumb:


JT, when you TIGed the bearing race on did you do anything special? Pre-heat, slow cool, filler material etc. Thx.

I tried to put as little heat into it as possible... my first attempt was a couple small tacks that broke quickly. The pic shown was my second attempt and has a few miles/track days on it. I used a little more heat and more filler rod (3702S maybe? whatever it was I used on the CM cage, I can double check) and larger beads than the original tacks. Did them in small steps, let air cool after each little bit added... seems to work? *crosses fingers*


Anyone gonna try/check Jacksons idea of drilling/tapping and adding some tiny button head screws to keep the race from pulling off ?

I would have if the tacks broke this time... BTW, I'll take credit for that one ;)

[BadAssPerformance]

OK.. made a little progress...

-ACT twin disk in - lengthened clutch lever, not sure if needed
-Trans back together - same bronze pads for more miles/abuse
-Backup set of DSS axles in - old pair with broke one at DSS to be repaired
-Reeve's Racing scatter shield installed - my nuts feel safer already
-Low oil pressure light fixed - was a bad sender
-New 26" slicks ordered
-Will call to put insurance on it tomorrow!


39663

[cordes]

Excellent news JT. I'm very glad to see that scatter shield in there.

[bakes]

whats the break in procedure for the act clutch?

[Shadow]

Prob the same as any clutch, 500 miles of stop and go with No "giving'er" till the end of the proceedure :) (this is especially important for ceramic clutches)

[blk86trbo]

Will call to put insurance on it tomorrow!

I also just called my insurance agent and swapped a bunch of cars around on the policy lol

Way to go on the Z, that shield looks really nifty!

[BadAssPerformance]

whats the break in procedure for the act clutch?

Good question. Most "race" type clutches don't get street driven, so probably once around the block will be fine, LOL

[turbovanman²]

Very cool, :nod:

[Reeves]

I'd give the clutch hell after a trip around the block. IF it ain't gonna hold, it ain't gonna hold. I never was a fan of the break in stuff.

[Shadow]

Damn, no wonder you guys have so much trouble with clutches/ trannies! lol A clutch needs "seat" time in order to insure that the Whole contact patch is "seated" to the flywheel/ PP surfaces. If only 50% of your clutch material is seated, you will no doubt slip the clutch the first time out, even though it was a clutch that would hold ALL your power if broken in properly.

Now on the other hand, IF you happen to have a disc and flywheel/ PP surfaces that are a near perfect match right from the get-go (ie. no high or low spots (we're talking 0.005" or less here) then you may have no problems.

I for one Always play it safe and materials like ceramic are way more important to break in properly than organic. If your familiar with breaking in a clutch, you will actually Feel when the breakin is done. Engagement will suddenly get smoother, less grabby as the whole surface is now contacting evenly instead of only catching the highs ;)

[Reeves]

Damn, no wonder you guys have so much trouble with clutches/ trannies! lol A clutch needs "seat" time in order to insure that the Whole contact patch is "seated" to the flywheel/ PP surfaces. If only 50% of your clutch material is seated, you will no doubt slip the clutch the first time out, even though it was a clutch that would hold ALL your power if broken in properly.

Now on the other hand, IF you happen to have a disc and flywheel/ PP surfaces that are a near perfect match right from the get-go (ie. no high or low spots (we're talking 0.005" or less here) then you may have no problems.

I for one Always play it safe and materials like ceramic are way more important to break in properly than organic. If your familiar with breaking in a clutch, you will actually Feel when the breakin is done. Engagement will suddenly get smoother, less grabby as the whole surface is now contacting evenly instead of only catching the highs ;)

So how does JO SCHMO racer do it? You know....all the 5 or 6 speed guys with NO WAY to drive it on the street?

[Ondonti]

So how does JO SCHMO racer do it? You know....all the 5 or 6 speed guys with NO WAY to drive it on the street?

They don't. Thats real life. They never do. What you said above is all there is. If it holds it holds. Less material touching isn't really going to make it slip or a full face would hold better then a 3 puck. Breaking in might help with street manners but who replaces enough race clutches to compare 1000 mile breakins with no breakin? Nobody.

[22shelby]

ill make sure to get JT's "break in period" on film... you know after the trip around the block

[BadAssPerformance]

Years ago I had a few great discussions with Rob Smith, the owner of RPS Turboclutch and multi-patent-holder, patents many other clutch companies have copied... and his clutches were one of the pioneers in FWD drag racing. He knows his stuff. The clutches came with instructiosn that basically said to break it in, drive it semi aggressively and it will seat quick, long break in not needed. Now, of course these were instructiosn for RPS clutches, not other manufacturers, but the full organic disks and ceramic puck clutches came with the same instructions

Think about it, if the surfaces are a couple thou off, they will plane themselves off either way... its the repetatve engagements that let them "bed"... so if 500 miles on open road doesn't really help as much as a bunch of engagements... the same amound could be had in less than 50 miles in town.

I think Rob's point about "material" and the "amount on variation" are accurate as you dont want to melt/compromise the material before it breaks in, however if the variation is tiny, break in needed will be minimal. I have never measured the surface variation on a disk, but think .005" would be a ton

Brent's theory on less area would actually hold better (like a 3-puck) is interesting...

Not sure it works that way tho as the smaller puck area has to deal with more friction/heat. Rob Smith had also told me a neat story of a 1200 WHP turbo Viper that had his highest HP rated puck clutch in it... in a couple long pulls on the dyno it was slipping. They swapped in a full face organic with the same plate and teh next day it held up for the whole day. Something to be said for more material to dissipate heat/energy

---------- Post added at 08:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:06 PM ----------


ill make sure to get JT's "break in period" on film... you know after the trip around the block

Sweet! As of tomorrow it will be insured... got a few things to button up on it before the track tho

[Shadow]

Better street manners and longer disk life is what I've personaly noticed. I've seen those who have gone out and balls to the wall right away and usually a 4 puck will last a summer, maybe 2 (5-10000kms). Then I've seen a 4 puck that was broken in over a long period (800 kms/ 500miles) with 20000kms on it that still looked almost new. (both were identicle clutch and hardware ordered at the same time and put into these two cars within weeks of each other)

The 4 puck that I originally ran in the Charger was down about 50% after several hundred 1/4 mile passes and at least 20000 street kms and I think I did most of the wear on the last week end of racing when I was slipping it every other pass and then launched in 2nd gear slipping it all the way through.

But yea, I hear what your saying James and all I can say is a clutch can be broken in quickly, but it seems to eat the disc faster and even gouge the flywheel PP worse, so I guess you just end up going through more parts.

I have also heard of big $ racers who will have the disc material re-machined and balanced to a higher tolerance for better and faster seating, this is where you get into really high $ clutches also, they prob need less break in because they are machined and balanced to a higher quality and spec.

Guys, I hope you realized I was joking about my comment, and by the lack of flaming I'm guessing you did! (good stuff, maybe a first! :))

I just didn't want someone who has a street driver and could otherwise do a proper break in to read this and think there was no benefit to it.

Only other thing I can add (and who knows, maybe it's all in my head) is that it's interesting that 500 miles/ 800kms is the chosen length of break in for most clutches. Like I said earlier, it's alway right around that time when I suddenly notice (specially on a puck clutch) that my rpm to leave the line smoothly drops 5-800 rpm, even my 3 puck did this. I've also driven cars that were not broken in with puck clutches and the severe "chatter" and rough engagement never goes away, it's there for the life of the disc. :(