BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

[turbovanman²]

Thanks Rob, that sounded like it may have been the case.... So I tried this tonight, but with assembly lube and I thought it was taking the stuff pretty well but after 1/2 a tube I realized that it was coming out the back of the oil pump onto the crank snout, WTF!? Did yours do that too? Or is it oil pump disassembly time? :(

I would say yes, if its leaking back out then the side plate isn't sealed and it won't prime, of course. :(

[thefitisgay]

Or you could tow your car down to the gulf coast and nose it right into the "water" and let it sit. You'll be all primed in no time.

...sorry.....:p

I like Bucar's idea though it might be a pain to get the fittings and the hose all done up.....its better than yanking the pan or the oil pump.

what if you took the t belt off and cranked over the intermediate shaft with a drill?

[tinyturbo]

Might just be the pressure relief valve ? I just take the oil filter off and pour some oil into the block cavity and let it sit for a few minutes to soak into the pump and your good to go.

[dodgeshadowchik]

Sorry to hear this.... :(

Maybe the car is nervous about running against the big engines in a few weeks. ;)

Like I told you over a txt message, let me know if you're in need of anything; I have that SRT engine i could steal things from to let you get this thing going for the time being. it's not going anywhere anytime soon.

[turboshad]

Thanks Rob, that sounded like it may have been the case.... So I tried this tonight, but with assembly lube and I thought it was taking the stuff pretty well but after 1/2 a tube I realized that it was coming out the back of the oil pump onto the crank snout, WTF!? Did yours do that too? Or is it oil pump disassembly time? :(

JT, if you get enough pressure when pumping in the assembly lube I would think it could squeeze out the front seal. I would be sure to rotate the crank while you're doing it so the lube has a place to go. Otherwise you will be pumping it into a closed space. I know you know what it looks like but this pic helped me "see" where the lube would travel. Oh, and make sure that top O-ring is in there :nod:

http://www.melaniff.com/SRT-4/Hot%20Rod/srt_10_z.jpg

[BadAssPerformance]

I would say yes, if its leaking back out then the side plate isn't sealed and it won't prime, of course. :(


JT, if you get enough pressure when pumping in the assembly lube I would think it could squeeze out the front seal. I would be sure to rotate the crank while you're doing it so the lube has a place to go. Otherwise you will be pumping it into a closed space. I know you know what it looks like but this pic helped me "see" where the lube would travel. Oh, and make sure that top O-ring is in there :nod:

http://www.melaniff.com/SRT-4/Hot%20Rod/srt_10_z.jpg

Looking at that pic does help but still not sure how it is easily passing out the crank snout... its not coming out the front seal, but rather the back side in this pic... and its coming out fairly easily like when I push my finger into the pickup hole full of ghease... should it come out that easily? ...might be time to throw a new pump in just to be sure?

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b187/desolator921/mypersonelpictures012.jpg

[chryguy]

My 2 cents,

+1 on the new pump. Tommy could be right about the oil pump having something to do with the t-belt being thrown in the first place.

Cheap insurance for that pretty new head...:eyebrows:

CG

[BadAssPerformance]

Yeah, my thoughts exactly CG... now to find one FAST!

[turboshad]

It could pass through the clearances to the back plate just like it would to the front seal. That being said I don't think it should pass that easily. I could try it on mine tonight if you like. After your experience I'll be packing it anyway. :nod: Either way I think an inspection is in order. Way better safe then sorry, especially when it comes to your oil pump. You may want to check your rod bearings too if you had it running with no pressure.

[Pat]

You may want to check your rod bearings too if you had it running with no pressure.

I agree with DJ on this one...even if it was only running for a little bit. Since it didn't build any oil pressure after not being run for quite some time, it's likely there was little (if any) oil between the crank and the bearings.

If I were in your shoes, I'd defniitely get a new pump, but I also think I'd be popping rod caps to inspect the bearings. I might even pop off a main cap or two to get a look at the mains.

Good luck...I hope the SDAC curse doesn't hit you too.

[turboshad]

The 2.4s have a bedplate which is why I just suggested the rods. But if the rods show bad signs then you can almost bet the mains aren't doing so hot either. :( If the rods are good than the mains probably are too. :)

[Pat]

The 2.4s have a bedplate which is why I just suggested the rods. But if the rods show bad signs then you can almost bet the mains aren't doing so hot either. :( If the rods are good than the mains probably are too. :)

Aahhh...I forgot about that.

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks to MoparBoyy, new pump should be here tomorrow...

Yeah, not sure if I want to look at any bearings or just run it :o

[turboshad]

Thanks to MoparBoyy, new pump should be here tomorrow...

Yeah, not sure if I want to look at any bearings or just run it :o

I know the feeling, but the ignorance is bliss policy doesn't work when it comes to bearings. Throw one and it's a complete tear down and rebuild which will most likely include a crank grind and it could also easily take out the turbo. I'm constantly forcing myself to not be lazy because all I want to be is done.

[1FastCSX289]

Thanks to MoparBoyy, new pump should be here tomorrow...

Yeah, not sure if I want to look at any bearings or just run it :o

Nice JT. Can you get that crank pulley off with the motor in the car?

[BadAssPerformance]

Yes, just need a puller.

Well, the verdict is... oil pump FUBAR :( the rotor let go... so not sure if that was a cause of or result of the timing belt carnage?

Pulling rod caps now... :(

[turboshad]

Yes, just need a puller.

Well, the verdict is... oil pump FUBAR :( the rotor let go... so not sure if that was a cause of or result of the timing belt carnage?

Pulling rod caps now... :(

That sucks. Hopefully things are OK but I'm not real optomistic.:(

[glhs0426]

Just have to love that powdered metal. It's so easily molded to shape, so easily machined, so strong, but rattle it a little bit and BANG it's in a million pieces.

[Rampage16V]

Thanks to MoparBoyy, new pump should be here tomorrow...

Yeah, not sure if I want to look at any bearings or just run it :o
On this note JT If your old head cam journals were scored that would be one of the farthest points from the oil pump if they were ok then the bottom end is closer gets oil before the head so....

Next question.....stock balancer ATI Balancer or solid alum underdrive pulley

[BadAssPerformance]

Cam journals were OK in the old head... Rod bearings looked *OK*, as in definitely some wear, but still smooth for the most part. Rod journals looked nice except one had a small groove in it. ... so I slapped some assembly lube on em and torqued them back down.... if it went out on the last run like I think it did, I am amazed its not worse? Also, luckily, the crank snout flats (that drive the OP) dont have a scratch on them... like John said above, powdered metal.. guess its a lot softer

As for pulleys... Running an ebay aluminum UD pulley thats a knock off of Unorthadox or something.. I cut the PS groove off and added a 7" SBC MSD crrank trigger wheel which I indicate within .005" when I bolt it on.

[glhs0426]

Another oil pump failure with an aluminum pulley. Well that settles it. There's another big money part to buy before I can start my project. I'm convinced the oil pump gears are breaking due to vibration and the ATI is the only safe way (RPM explosion) to combat that vibration.

[Rampage16V]

Agreed the rampage has an alum pulley on it too and I think that is what happened to it. The Shelby Z has the ATI pulley

[tinyturbo]

Don't they have an oil pump upgade kit for the 2.4 ?

[turbovanman²]

Don't they have an oil pump upgade kit for the 2.4 ?

Yep, maybe time to run the DCR oil pump or the other brands available, if there are any.

[Reeves]

I'd say go DCR if you got the money!

[Shadow]

Pretty sure DCR no longer makes the billet oil pumps, maybe just the gears? Once ppl realized the pump was a bandaid rather than a fix, I don't think they sold many.

[Reeves]

Pretty sure DCR no longer makes the billet oil pumps, maybe just the gears? Once ppl realized the pump was a bandaid rather than a fix, I don't think they sold many.

Yup, I guess you are right....on their website they just show coated gears.

[turboshad]

DCR no longer makes the billet gears because, as far as Darrell says, they found the coated gears were strong enough and much cheaper so there was no need for billet. Rage-Tek also carries them though I've heard sketchy things about their service lately. Then again when you're competing with Darrell for the service award...... I personally have a set of billet gears b/c a local guy was selling a new set and I already had the pump. Darrell would not sell them seperate.

http://www.rage-tek.com/product.php?productid=17191&cat=252&page=1

Glad to hear the bearings look OK JT. :clap:

[thedon809]

like John said above, powdered metal.. guess its a lot softer
Powdered metal is very hard, but brittle.

[Rampage16V]

DCR no longer makes the billet gears because, as far as Darrell says, they found the coated gears were strong enough and much cheaper so there was no need for billet.

That's funny are they're pumps cheaper now though?

[Reeves]

That's funny are they're pumps cheaper now though?

http://www.dcrsrt.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=34

[turbovanman²]

That's funny are they're pumps cheaper now though?

+2, out hyped by his own hype, :confused: :lol:

[Austrian Dodge]

i still find it hard to believe that just running no dampner (stock or fluid) could cause oil pump gear failures.
i've also read that people are breaking oil pump gears with stock pulleys...

in your case i'd say that by skipping timing belt teeth (could be tensioner failure, over spinning the engine, ....) there has been some kind of shock momentum/force to the crank transferring to the gears which killed the them.
i also don't think that any dampner device would have saved your oil pump, respectevly the gears.

[turbovanman²]

i still find it hard to believe that just running no dampner (stock or fluid) could cause oil pump gear failures.
i've also read that people are breaking oil pump gears with stock pulleys...

in your case i'd say that by skipping timing belt teeth (could be tensioner failure, over spinning the engine, ....) there has been some kind of shock momentum/force to the crank transferring to the gears which killed the them.
i also don't think that any dampner device would have saved your oil pump, respectevly the gears.

I don't find it hard to believe. Why do you think most engines run some form of damper? The crankshaft takes tons of abuse, twisting, resonating and dampers absorb this. I've been told by racing buddy's that used stock dampers on their V8's that they'd rebearing every weekend, put a decent one on, IE Fluidamper and problem solved.

I put a Fluidamper on my 6.2 diesel, and the difference was night and day, so much so, it changed the sound of the engine and all vibration dissapeared.

[contraption22]

PT Performance Billet Damper for SRT-4. I'm not endorsing this product. Just letting you know its out there.

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f241/new-billet-balancer-ready-pre-order-571039/#post8507578

[turbovanman²]

PT Performance Billet Damper for SRT-4. I'm not endorsing this product. Just letting you know its out there.

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f241/new-billet-balancer-ready-pre-order-571039/#post8507578

Wish we had one.

[contraption22]

Wish we had one.

What do you mean?

[turbovanman²]

What do you mean?

Wish we had a proper balancer, would smooth things out alot.

[Aries_Turbo]

What do you mean?

i think he means "we" as in "2.2 and 2.5L guys" rather than 2.0 and 2.4L owners which have harmonic dampers available.

simon, they would have to be awful small. you saw what happened to slowe when he put a nice, big balancer on the end of the small 2.2L crank snout.

to make it reliable, its going to have to be bolted to where the balance shaft chain attached to, and we'd have to run a bigger seal for the damper adapters larger diameter. its just not feasible for the masses. one off? sure. off the shelf part? not so much.

brian

[Directconnection]

Wish we had a proper balancer, would smooth things out alot.

We do.... it's called "counterweights" on the crankshaft;)

One of the biggest downfalls of the 2.2/2.5 is the tiny snout. Surprised they survive as much abuse as they do (except in Brian's case)

reminds me of something.... see you in brian's bsx thread...

[BadAssPerformance]

Got the new pump tonight.. Thanks MoparBoyy! :) Not to put it in while doing some serious finger crossing!

[cordes]

best of luck JT.

[turbovanman²]

i think he means "we" as in "2.2 and 2.5L guys" rather than 2.0 and 2.4L owners which have harmonic dampers available.

simon, they would have to be awful small. you saw what happened to slowe when he put a nice, big balancer on the end of the small 2.2L crank snout.

to make it reliable, its going to have to be bolted to where the balance shaft chain attached to, and we'd have to run a bigger seal for the damper adapters larger diameter. its just not feasible for the masses. one off? sure. off the shelf part? not so much.

brian

Not so much aftermarket but having it from the factory, as in came with it, OEM. :D



We do.... it's called "counterweights" on the crankshaft;)

One of the biggest downfalls of the 2.2/2.5 is the tiny snout. Surprised they survive as much abuse as they do (except in Brian's case)

reminds me of something.... see you in brian's bsx thread...

Err, not the same, you of all should know that. :o


Got the new pump tonight.. Thanks MoparBoyy! :) Not to put it in while doing some serious finger crossing!

Good luck man, :nod:

[Rampage16V]

Did anyone else notice that the inside drive part of the oil pump gears has changed on the newer pumps? Thin this might help out the breakage problems?

[turbovanman²]

Did anyone else notice that the inside drive part of the oil pump gears has changed on the newer pumps? Thin this might help out the breakage problems?

Pics? :p

[BadAssPerformance]

Did anyone else notice that the inside drive part of the oil pump gears has changed on the newer pumps? Thin this might help out the breakage problems?

Hmmmm.... what changed?

[Speedeuphoria]

Well so far I think FWD's CSX aka Kevin Davis' old car is the only one left standing with stock oil pump and an alum underdrive pulley. BUT his is a NA oil pump, as in lower volume but they may have different gear specs also??(million dollar question)

[Rampage16V]

Hmmmm.... what changed?

The inner diameter of the inside gears looks to have more "flutes" on it to keep it centred on the crank. Maye this is to help with gear bind that DCR was mentioning

Also I have heard of these gears breaking on brand new cars one cyl head I have was scored because of an oil pump failure on a pt cruiser as it was driven off the lot the first time car had 50 klms on it

[turbovanman²]

Its funny, imports have used this setup for years and not ONE issue. :confused:

[glhs0426]

Its funny, imports have used this setup for years and not ONE issue. :confused:

I don't know much about imports, but did they use an absurd 4" stroke crankshaft? You know from experience that long stroke on an inline 4cyl sets up a wicked second order vibration. This whole oil pump gear breakage with the 2.4L (and 2.0L's with aluminum pulleys BTW) concerns me greatly.

I've thought about mocking up a chain driven oil pump where the balance shaft assembly mounts. The world engines drive the oil pump off the back of the balance shaft setup. The 1.8L does not use balance shafts and drives only an oil pump below the crank. I mean the gear is already on the crank, why not use it? Do any other engines do this?
Edit: World engine balance shafts/oil pumps are not driven by chain. They are helical gear driven from the center of the crankshaft.

[BadAssPerformance]

Interesting Dean, I think the pump that broke has less releif in the grooves than the new one... hard to tell now that its all shroomed open, and I didnt find a good pic of the before carnage pump...

Well, oil pump primed full of lube and installed, oil pan on, cams in and degreed, timing belt on... still have to do:

-install front motor mount and trans to engine girdle
-cross fingers
-install UD pulley and alternator belt
-cross fingers
-install/indicate crank trigger
-cross fingers
-red-route oil gauge and turbo-supply plumping
-cross fingers
-fill with oil
-cross fingers
-bolt valvecover on
-cross fingers
-install cam sensor
-cross fingers
-bolt coil on
-cross fingers
-connect misc wires
-cross fingers
-prime oil system
-cross fingers
-put plugs in and connect wires
-cross fingers
-apply assm lube to hamster wheel and fill its water bottle
-cross fingers
-fire it up
-cross fingers

[turboshad]

I don't know man. If I were you I'd be crossing my fingers. ;)

[Rampage16V]

Interesting Dean, I think the pump that broke has less releif in the grooves than the new one... hard to tell now that its all shroomed open, and I didnt find a good pic of the before carnage pump...

Well, oil pump primed full of lube and installed, oil pan on, cams in and degreed, timing belt on... still have to do:

-install front motor mount and trans to engine girdle
-cross fingers
-install UD pulley and alternator belt
-cross fingers
-install/indicate crank trigger
-cross fingers
-red-route oil gauge and turbo-supply plumping
-cross fingers
-fill with oil
-cross fingers
-bolt valvecover on
-cross fingers
-install cam sensor
-cross fingers
-bolt coil on
-cross fingers
-connect misc wires
-cross fingers
-prime oil system
-cross fingers
-put plugs in and connect wires
-cross fingers
-apply assm lube to hamster wheel and fill its water bottle
-cross fingers
-fire it up
-cross fingers

DAMN an aweful lot of finger crossing going on!!! Good luck JT!!

[contraption22]

http://www.truthdig.com/images/eartothegrounduploads/Bush-fingers_crossed.GIF

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks for the luck guys! Heck even W is pulling for the Z :)

[trbowgn]

Interesting Dean, I think the pump that broke has less releif in the grooves than the new one... hard to tell now that its all shroomed open, and I didnt find a good pic of the before carnage pump...

Well, oil pump primed full of lube and installed, oil pan on, cams in and degreed, timing belt on... still have to do:

-install front motor mount and trans to engine girdle
-cross fingers
-install UD pulley and alternator belt
-cross fingers
-install/indicate crank trigger
-cross fingers
-red-route oil gauge and turbo-supply plumping
-cross fingers
-fill with oil
-cross fingers
-bolt valvecover on
-cross fingers
-install cam sensor
-cross fingers
-bolt coil on
-cross fingers
-connect misc wires
-cross fingers
-prime oil system
-cross fingers
-put plugs in and connect wires
-cross fingers
-apply assm lube to hamster wheel and fill its water bottle
-cross fingers
-fire it up
-cross fingers

I'd wish you luck JT but I don't think you will need it with all that finger crossing.

Do you have a rabits foot hanging fromt he end of your 3/8 ratchet by chance.

I can't wait to see this thing run in person, I will definately have to make a Chicago track day soon.

[dodgeshadowchik]

I'm playing to the turbo gods for you that the car runs and holds together! I seen alot of cars roll thru the dealership and parts store that *shouldn't* be running, but were.. so... hopefully this one will be ok!

:)

[contraption22]

http://dianechamberlain.com/blog/crossed%20fingers.jpg

[contraption22]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3019/3039831328_6af691510e.jpg

[contraption22]

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/9260720/2/istockphoto_9260720-excited-beautiful-young-woman-with-fingers-crossed.jpg

[contraption22]

http://cache1.bigcartel.com/product_images/11776641/FingersCrossed.jpg

[contraption22]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/pixmac-preview/santa-with-his-fingers-crossed.jpg

[dodgeshadowchik]

Google Image Search FTW :P
http://theenvelope.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-02/35826243.jpg

[contraption22]

And a little prayer:

"Dear heavenly.....spirit. Thank you. um, thank you for providing us with the direct-port nitrous injection, 4 core intercoolers, and ball bearing turbos, and titanium valve springs, Amen. "

[Reeves]

And a little prayer:

"Dear heavenly.....spirit. Thank you. um, thank you for providing us with the direct-port nitrous injection, 4 core intercoolers, and ball bearing turbos, and titanium valve springs, Amen. "

Now let's eat some grub yo!

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL, thanks guys... the "moment of truth" is near

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks for all the finger crossing folks! ... IT RUNS! :)

Oil pressure seems OK, oil seems clean after a few minute running, idle vacuum seems OK... dont really know how well it runs yet yet, probably wont till the first 7000rpm blast down the track... sometime this week. So keep those fingers crossed! LOL!

...Now to finish everything else I still need to do to it! Aaarrgh, so much to do so little time, LOL!

[Directconnection]

Coolio!

Make a few blasts down your street!

Won't stop Big Willy and his real Daytona from doing so in your backyard ;)


http://forums.rodandcustommagazine.com/70/8177240/whats-on-your-mind/big-willie-is-moving-to-chicago/index.html

If you don't know of Big Willy, the guy was a badass mofo back in the day. He was in some magazines back in the very early 70's with his '69 Daytona as the king of street racers in LA.

[turbovanman²]

http://dianechamberlain.com/blog/crossed%20fingers.jpg

Hahahhaa, awesome.

[Turbo3Iroc]

Good to hear JT. :partywoot: Put some street miles on it. You still have a plate on it right?

[BadAssPerformance]

Make a few blasts down your street!

Won't stop Big Willy and his real Daytona from doing so in your backyard ;)

Hell yeah, Big Willie was at the Mopar Nats last year and at the Grove once too :thumb:


Good to hear JT. :partywoot: Put some street miles on it. You still have a plate on it right?

Got a plate but... maybe not the correct level of insurance so it wont be a long trip, but thats the plan for tomorrow if it ever stops raining!

[Turbo3Iroc]

Rain changed my plans today also. :mad:

[bakes]

And a little prayer:

"Dear heavenly.....spirit. Thank you. um, thank you for providing us with the direct-port nitrous injection, 4 core intercoolers, and ball bearing turbos, and titanium valve springs, Amen. "

Dam i need to put that on a t shirt!;)

[turbovanman²]

Got a plate but... maybe not the correct level of insurance so it wont be a long trip, but thats the plan for tomorrow if it ever stops raining!

Wow, we finally got a reprieve this weekend, no rain, woot, :partywoot:

[blk86trbo]

Way to go JT, I'm keeping my fingers crossed too! LOL

EDIT: Hey I wanted to explain this photo...every time someone mentions "crossing fingers" I think of this pic and it cracks me up...here's the deal http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/crossed.asp

http://media.right-mind.us/right-mind/crossedfingers_2Dhillary_small.jpg

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL, thats hilarious Paul!


Update... made it around the block twice... made some boost, came back into the driveway smokin'! :( Luckily it was only the damn header wrap on the downpipe, guess it got a little warm... it should be OK now

Off to make some misc parts...

[1FastCSX289]

LOL, thats hilarious Paul!


Update... made it around the block twice... made some boost, came back into the driveway smokin'! :( Luckily it was only the damn header wrap on the downpipe, guess it got a little warm... it should be OK now

Off to make some misc parts...

Nice JT! Yes......that stuff seems to smoke for a while, doesnt it. I guess it collects the grease from your hands pretty well.

[BadAssPerformance]

Yeah or from the SS?

[contraption22]

I'd be weary of wrapping SS... especially relatively thin wall stuff like I have seen in other OBX products. SS grows alot with heat, and I think it would accelerate fatigue.

[BadAssPerformance]

I did not wrap the header... only the downpipe... and mostly for alternator and firewall heat control :o

[contraption22]

I did not wrap the header... only the downpipe... and mostly for alternator and firewall heat control :o

AHHH ok. I sorry.

[BadAssPerformance]

Its cool... heck I hate header wrap... especially if the car was stored outside... that shtuff corrodes pipe liek nobodys business!

[turbovanman²]

Its cool... heck I hate header wrap... especially if the car was stored outside... that shtuff corrodes pipe liek nobodys business!

No kidding. I have a nice chunk of thick walled SS on my van, I might wrap a small piece to see how it holds up, just for shits and giggles.

[Turbo3Iroc]

Most of the damage from header wrap occurs at the dip of a tube where it holds the moisture from what I have seen. So I unless you incorporate that Simon I don't think you're doing much of anything as a test. I don't think JT will have a problem with his DP wrapped as it has a continual downward flow.

[turbovanman²]

Most of the damage from header wrap occurs at the dip of a tube where it holds the moisture from what I have seen. So I unless you incorporate that Simon I don't think you're doing much of anything as a test. I don't think JT will have a problem with his DP wrapped as it has a continual downward flow.

Dip of a tube? :confused:

I am doing it for piece of mind, I like having my DP wrapped but like I said, last time I did that, it rotted the pipe underneath.

[Turbo3Iroc]

Dip of a tube? :confused:

I am doing it for piece of mind, I like having my DP wrapped but like I said, last time I did that, it rotted the pipe underneath.

The low point where a tube curves back up.

How long was the wrap on your van to cause that rot?

[BadAssPerformance]

I don't think JT will have a problem with his DP wrapped as it has a continual downward flow.

..and rarely sees weather :o

[turbovanman²]

The low point where a tube curves back up.

How long was the wrap on your van to cause that rot?

Less than a year, :o


..and rarely sees weather :o

Haaahaha, yeah, when it runs, it see's all seasons.

[Pat]

Less than a year, :o



Haaahaha, yeah, when it runs, it see's all seasons.


I had a wrapped down pipe on the Shadow for at least 4 years...saw all kinds of weather, was outside quite a bit, etc. The car was an occassional driver for 2 of those years. Pulled the wrap off recently and the aluminized exhaust pipe I used was good as new.

Must be a Canadian thing, eh? :D

[bakes]

LOL, thats hilarious Paul!


Update... made it around the block twice... made some boost, came back into the driveway smokin'! :( Luckily it was only the damn header wrap on the downpipe, guess it got a little warm... it should be OK now

Off to make some misc parts...

Why does header wrap alway smell like burnning pancakes????:confused:

[BadAssPerformance]

You must have a different brand or really know how to kill pancakes, the shtuff I got smells toxic!

[turbovanman²]

I had a wrapped down pipe on the Shadow for at least 4 years...saw all kinds of weather, was outside quite a bit, etc. The car was an occassional driver for 2 of those years. Pulled the wrap off recently and the aluminized exhaust pipe I used was good as new.

Must be a Canadian thing, eh? :D

It must be as we live in Igloo's and are called Nuntuk, :lol:

[BadAssPerformance]

The Z is loaded on the trailer... awaiting me to get off work and head to Grove for some tuning runs

*crosses fingers*

[Reeves]

The Z is loaded on the trailer... awaiting me to get off work and head to Grove for some tuning runs

*crosses fingers*

:thumb:

[turboshad]

Nice!! Good work JT :hail:

[cordes]

Best of luck JT.

[SebringLX]

Good luck, hope to see you out there Saturday too. :D

[BadAssPerformance]

Well, i just might be out there again, but not sure about saturday... mayeb tuesday? There was nobody there tonight, every time I pulled up into the staging lanes i was first in line!

The good news - after 5 runs the car is still together and the oil looks clean and OK oil pressure too

Concerns...

-a couple IC hoses had issues staying on - need beads welded on
-with TiAL set up for 15psi.. it hit 30 WTF!? - set it for 30 and it ran higher WTF!?
-developed an exhaust leak, manifold maybe? :confused2:
-track was STICKY an ddidnt get a single good launch, like bog... like if the exhaust mani wasnt leaking I was going again and leave off the limiter

So much to do, so little time...

[turbovanman²]

Any times?

[BadAssPerformance]

How about a 15.42 @ 112.19 with a 3.517 60' due to not one, but two bogged launches :(

I need to figure out a clutch switch, like the one to make you have to press the clutch in to start the car. Did any of the later Daytonas come with one that will work on my 87 clutch pedal??

I tested the MSD and the 2-step builds ~16psi but I need to trigger ti off somethign better than a thumb button.. I never got that to work too well the coupel times I tried it last year.

[Turbo3Iroc]

Well, i just might be out there again, but not sure about saturday... mayeb tuesday? There was nobody there tonight, every time I pulled up into the staging lanes i was first in line!

The good news - after 5 runs the car is still together and the oil looks clean and OK oil pressure too

Concerns...

-a couple IC hoses had issues staying on - need beads welded on
-with TiAL set up for 15psi.. it hit 30 WTF!? - set it for 30 and it ran higher WTF!?
-developed an exhaust leak, manifold maybe? :confused2:
-track was STICKY an ddidnt get a single good launch, like bog... like if the exhaust mani wasnt leaking I was going again and leave off the limiter

So much to do, so little time...


What Tial you running? V44? Same WG you ran last year?

[BadAssPerformance]

Yes same as last year... f40?

[Turbo3Iroc]

Yes same as last year... f40?

Can you turn down your air compressor that far to check if it is not stuck closed?

[BadAssPerformance]

It may very well be. I'll probably dissect it all looking for the exhaust leak... good idea on compressor

[Turbo3Iroc]

Some regulators will go that low, others won't. You can also use a mityvac if you have one.

[22shelby]

good job on getting it together and up there tonight, i wanted to get up there too, however, today was the first day i drove my car too, and had some issues also, but i believe there ironed out.....i helps to "hook up the turbo" to a turbo car ( they dont like flaping waste gate pucks) shhhhhhh

oh and dont forget to feed the Hampster next time.....hahaha...

[rich tideswell]

theres a shot of the front of your car in the august 2010 issue of mopar muscle

[BadAssPerformance]

I heard about that pic, just got a copy too! :thumb: Too bad prolly no FWD class this year :(

[turboshad]

How about a 15.42 @ 112.19 with a 3.517 60' due to not one, but two bogged launches :(

I need to figure out a clutch switch, like the one to make you have to press the clutch in to start the car. Did any of the later Daytonas come with one that will work on my 87 clutch pedal??

I tested the MSD and the 2-step builds ~16psi but I need to trigger ti off somethign better than a thumb button.. I never got that to work too well the coupel times I tried it last year.

A clutch switch only engages when the pedal is too the floor. I have one from a later model Shadow but I had to do some fab to my non-switch clutch bracket to make it work. Another option is a switch for aftermarket cruise controls. It is a limit switch that uses a little ball chain that you put around the pedal. Then you can adjust when it engages. I use that for my 2-step and flat shift.

[BadAssPerformance]

Hmm... either switch might work.. pics?

[BadAssPerformance]

Update…

Exhaust leak – header nut was MIA (probably in the left lane?) I’ll put new gasket in tomorrow
Checked compression – 155-152-155-150 – OK
Checked timing – Crank trigger moved… a lot – will fix tomorrow

[contraption22]

Checked timing – Crank trigger moved… a lot – will fix tomorrow

The trigger moved or the wheel moved? You keyed the wheel to the crank, right?

[BadAssPerformance]

Wheel is bolted to the the stupid 2.4L press on belt pulley. It did this before and I fixed it but its been on and off a few times.. so it will get welded/re-sized today

[Aries_Turbo]

there is no key? if its something as critical to timing, shouldnt you have a key or a pin or something?

[turbovanman²]

there is no key? if its something as critical to timing, shouldnt you have a key or a pin or something?

Stock its pressed on, no key.

I thought he put a key on when this happened last time? :confused:

[thedon809]

I always wondered why mopar went from using bolt on pulley to the stupid press on pulley. The damn bolts worked just fine.

[turbovanman²]

I always wondered why mopar went from using bolt on pulley to the stupid press on pulley. The damn bolts worked just fine.

Its still bolted, just no keyway to stop it from spinning.

[contraption22]

I thought he put a key on when this happened last time? :confused:

I thought he did too. JT, WTF? :)

[Austrian Dodge]

JT, while you're at it, you might want to measure the depth of the UD pulley. I'm using an MPx UD pulley and when put on the crank it pushes the crank gear towards the oil pump. I remember beeing it somewhat over 1mm.

took some measurements and indeed the depth of the stock pulley is different. I had to put the UD pulley on the lathe and took a bit off. Fit like charm afterwards.

[BadAssPerformance]

Its still bolted, just no keyway to stop it from spinning.


I thought he did too. JT, WTF? :)

Haven't had the crank out to mill a groove...

[BadAssPerformance]

JT, while you're at it, you might want to measure the depth of the UD pulley. I'm using an MPx UD pulley and when put on the crank it pushes the crank gear towards the oil pump. I remember beeing it somewhat over 1mm.

took some measurements and indeed the depth of the stock pulley is different. I had to put the UD pulley on the lathe and took a bit off. Fit like charm afterwards.

Interesting. I'm using a ebay knockoff of a Unorthadox one for a 2.4LT PT... I'll look at that

[tinyturbo]

Wow compression is quite a bit lower on the 2.4 over the hybrid ? Or is that from the camshafts mainly ? my hybrid is getting about 185 psi with 2.5 pistons and 2.4 stock cams.

[BadAssPerformance]

Dunno, thats what its always been, even with stock 2.4L cams

[Turbo3Iroc]

Yeah that's about the same compression as a stock TIII also JT. I dont know what 2.5's usually run for compression but 185 sounds high to me.

[glhs0426]

I've seen stock 2.4L's as low as 150, but as high as 200 cranking compression. Most run around 180psi. 2.0L HO's were around 220 when everything was right with the world.

[1FastCSX289]

I've seen stock 2.4L's as low as 150, but as high as 200 cranking compression. Most run around 180psi. 2.0L HO's were around 220 when everything was right with the world.

Thats sounds wicked high for a car youre going to throw 20+PSI of boost at. :confused2: You talking an N/A 2.4 or an SRT??

[turbovanman²]

Bummer about the launch's, at least your getting it sorted out, :thumb:



Update…

Exhaust leak – header nut was MIA (probably in the left lane?) I’ll put new gasket in tomorrow
Checked compression – 155-152-155-150 – OK
Checked timing – Crank trigger moved… a lot – will fix tomorrow

Good compression numbers.


Yeah that's about the same compression as a stock TIII also JT. I dont know what 2.5's usually run for compression but 185 sounds high to me.

Yep, mine was 150 when I first rebuilt it.

[SebringLX]

Cutting it close man... Do you have to run the Z this weekend? Is your registration tied to the Z? Or can you run another car?

[BadAssPerformance]

The registration is tied to me not the car so theoretically I can bring any car... but I'm planning to bring the Z :thumb: Dunno if I can switch cars for Saturday if there are issues Friday? :confused2:

[bakes]

You can try and put green locite on the crank snout it might help.

[BadAssPerformance]

I though about that... I welded a bead on the ID and re-ground it.. its a tad tighter now!

[Reeves]

Update…

Exhaust leak – header nut was MIA (probably in the left lane?) I’ll put new gasket in tomorrow

Go to Fastenal and purchase the Nord-Lock washers in 5/16" (8mm). They work awesome.
http://www.nord-lock.com/



You can try and put green locite on the crank snout it might help.

That is some bad@ss sheot right there! We use it at work a lot for high vibration and very fast applications. I went to a loctite training class and they were doing some crazy stuff with the green.

[89ShelbyGuy]

Oh god...the only problem with the green stuff is, if you ever wanna get it back off...ur going to have one hell of a time...i use that stuff all the time..if you apply it right with very clean surfaces, it won't go anywhere ever....

[Reeves]

Oh god...the only problem with the green stuff is, if you ever wanna get it back off...ur going to have one hell of a time...i use that stuff all the time..if you apply it right with very clean surfaces, it won't go anywhere ever....

You can usually break it loose with heat...but a lot of application you can't use heat....

[BadAssPerformance]

Hmmm, interesting washers....

[Reeves]

Hmmm, interesting washers....

I used them on Dad's Hemi Charger when I installed the Kooks Long Tube Headers.....so far they have never developed a leak.

I kept having my nuts on the OMNI header coming loose, even with normal lock washers....installed the Nord-Lock last season and so far so good!!!

[BadAssPerformance]

:thumb: ...searching for Fastenal location.

[22shelby]

there is a fastenal, on north ave here in lombard

[BadAssPerformance]

Fastenal couldnt get them fast and I forgo tto get them from McRaceMaster Carr today.. so I just gotta check them between rounds.

Car is all together, catch can added, changed WG signal to the comp housing and added a crapload of timing to the pre-boost high RPM (launch area) to help it get out of the hole… all washed (THANKS DSC! :)) and ready to load onthe trailer! ...Then some serious finger crossing till pass #1, LOL…

*crossing fingers*

[dodgeshadowchik]

Your welcome there buddy. :p

[bakes]

I would throw a tube of green in your tool box , that way if you have it you wont need it:D

[DaveSkrab]

*** EDIT***
I totally Forgot about you running at PINKS! So yeah... You ARE coming to SDAC right?
>>>>>>>>>


Hey JT!
There's a Fastenal up the street from my house in Martinsburg, WV. and there is also on IN Hagerstown! maybe see if either place has them in stock? or can get them ordered tomorrow for pickup on monday? Nothing like working on the car int he parking lot :-)

http://www.fastenal.com/web/locations.ex?action=search&searchType=locations&zip=25401

LMK if this might work out! because re-torque-ing nuts on a HOT engine is not fun!



Fastenal couldnt get them fast and I forgo tto get them from McRaceMaster Carr today.. so I just gotta check them between rounds.

Car is all together, catch can added, changed WG signal to the comp housing and added a crapload of timing to the pre-boost high RPM (launch area) to help it get out of the hole… all washed (THANKS DSC! :)) and ready to load onthe trailer! ...Then some serious finger crossing till pass #1, LOL…

*crossing fingers*

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks Dave, but it should be good... *crosses fingers* assming ti runs well! crosses fingers* and yes I'll be at SDAC after Pinks one way or another!

[contraption22]

Good luck, JT. We're all counting on you. Do use proud!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmHeP9Sve48

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks, I'll need it! :thumb: *Crosses fingers*

[dodgeshadowchik]

All cleaned and ready to go!

[blk86trbo]

Great pic MB! :love:

[SebringLX]

Great pic MB! :love:
+1
Looking good! :thumb:

[Captain Chaos]

makes an excellent background at work!

[BadAssPerformance]

Ran... *OK* today, was able to bring it out of the hole better but spun violently thru the first couple gears then bogged whrn i short shifted...

Gotta be the ONLY FWD car at the Pinks event

[bakes]

Ran... *OK* today, was able to bring it out of the hole better but spun violently thru the first couple gears then bogged whrn i short shifted...

Gotta be the ONLY FWD car at the Pinks event

NO short shifting lol go all out !!!!!

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL, Thats the funny thing about shifting when the wheel sare spinning.. if the wheels didnt catch up to the engine RPM...

[SebringLX]

Burn-outs sucked. :P

I still say we make room for the 26" slicks and you throw them on.

[bakes]

You might have to lower the tire pressure some because you making more power if that makes sense.

[SebringLX]

He had it down to 12psi already. :\

[bakes]

Track not tacky enough yet?????

[2.216VTurbo]

Hey, nothing broke right? That's a good day at the track IMO:D NOW GET TO SDAC, the other JT is already here:thumb:

[black86glhs]

Hey, nothing broke right? That's a good day at the track IMO:D NOW GET TO SDAC, the other JT is already here:thumb:Hey Alan.....what the hell are you doing up at 6:30 am at SDAC? Making more time for beer?:thumb::D

[bakes]

Well any updates ???? did you win the tool box . lol

[OnLooker]

They picked an 8.50 field, nothing like going to pinks to watch bracket racing.

[SebringLX]

They don't have the toolbox anymore either. NAPA is no longer sponsoring the show.

There wasn't a single Mopar in the final 16 either. May as well have been all Chevy's. There were a couple Ford's, but I think they all had Chevy engines in them.

The show is supposed to air in August or September. You may still see JT's car swerving all over on his arm drop pass, which was also his best pass of the weekend. They seemed very excited over it, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a fast clip of it during the show.

You may also spot a glimpse of JT, Mary Beth, and myself, when they announce the drivers. We were standing right next to a guy that got picked, and a couple of the others had to walk by us to get to the front.

[Reaper1]

Yeah, Pinks has gotten boring now that they usually pick fields with times out of most normal people's budgets and means. I don't even watch it anymore. Though I might try to get that gimpse of some familiar faces on TV when it airs! ;)

[thefitisgay]

i stopped watching pinks years ago... about the time it turned into a bunch of women arguing over why they should be allowed to have a faster car and start at half track with the bottle on

[BadAssPerformance]

Pinks! All Out @ Rt 66 Runs ...

Run #1 (Friday) - Right off the trailer, spun violently in 1 and then 2 then BOG in 3rd - no timeslip but it was UGLY so it dont matter :(

Run #2 (Friday) - Better burnout but spun violently in 1 and then 2 then BOG in 3rd again... got out of it

R/T: .224
60': 1.926
330': 5.410
1/8ET: 8.408
1/8mph: 75.29
1000'ET: 11.394
1/4ET: 14.155
1/4mph: 77.57

Run #3 (Saturday) - still spinning out of the hole, missed 2nd :( but nailed 3rd... reeling in the other lane big time, 6.5mph on him :)

R/T: .324
60': 1.961
330': 5.391
1/8ET: 7.976
1/8mph: 98.65
1000'ET: 10.078
1/4ET: 11.841
1/4mph: 128.60

Run #4 (Saturday - Arm Drop) - still spinning out of the hole, but bangin gears like hell running "all out" LOL... The otehr lane ran 11.033 but I have over 12mph on him and it was barely 2 car lengths...

R/T: 2.507 (arm drop after the green lights)
60': 1.936
330': 5.102
1/8ET: 7.521
1/8mph: 104.52
1000'ET: 9.557
1/4ET: 11.253
1/4mph: 133.75

Fun event, wish they prepped the track a tad better...

[BadAssPerformance]

SDAC-20 Runs...

Run #1 - Right off the trailer, spun violently "ice skating" down the track.... :( but made some big end power :)

R/T: .261
60': 1.934
330': 5.463
1/8ET: 8.006
1/8mph: 101.61
1000'ET: 10.058
1/4ET: 11.774
1/4mph: 131.63

Run #2 - Better burnout but still spun violently in 1 and 2

R/T: .359
60': 1.897
330': 5.182
1/8ET: 7.668
1/8mph: 102.82
1000'ET: 9.714
1/4ET: 11.437
1/4mph: 130.94

Run #3 (Q-16 Qualifier) - Still spinning thru 1st better 60' and not as much spin in 2nd... good enough to qualify 4th.

R/T: .302
60': 1.822
330': 4.968
1/8ET: 7.456
1/8mph: 102.19
1000'ET: 9.505
1/4ET: 11.241
1/4mph: 129.94

Run #4 (Q-16 R-1) - Still spinning in 1st, but figuring it out...

R/T: .305
60': 1.834
330': 5.012
1/8ET: 7.536
1/8mph: 101.32
1000'ET: 9.602
1/4ET: 11.351
1/4mph: 128.98

Run #5 (Q-16 R-2) Epic race vs. Pat's ScAries... got out of groove in 2nd, pulled it back in, bogged in third, floored it, looked in mirror, no pat.. looked over shoulder HERE COMES PAT! ... right as it cleared up and made enuff boost to pull ahead! Fun race!

_____ JT --- Pat
R/T: .186 --- .339
60': 1.864 --- 1.890
330': 5.099 --- 5.247
1/8ET: 8.028 --- 7.972
1/8mph: 88.37 --- 90.70
1000'ET: 8.946 --- 10.298
1/4ET: 12.071 --- 12.266
1/4mph: 125.54 --- 113.83

Run #6 (Q-16 R-3 "Semi-Finals") Epic race vs. Rob's Charger... Side by side action here, fun times! Always a good race with Rob! if only his bottle wasnt a little emptier ;)

_____ JT --- Rob
R/T: .227 --- .280
60': 1.858 --- 1.849
330': 5.009 --- 4.865
1/8ET: 7.433 --- 7.197
1/8mph: 105.16 --- 106.50
1000'ET: 9.467 --- 9.172
1/4ET: 11.165 --- 10.838
1/4mph: 131.92 --- 134.83

[thefitisgay]

Pinks! All Out @ Rt 66 Runs ...

Run #1 (Friday) - Right off the trailer, spun violently in 1 and then 2 then BOG in 3rd - no timeslip but it was UGLY so it dont matter :(

Run #2 (Friday) - Better burnout but spun violently in 1 and then 2 then BOG in 3rd again... got out of it

R/T: .224
60': 1.926
330': 5.410
1/8ET: 8.408
1/8mph: 75.29
1000'ET: 11.394
1/4ET: 14.155
1/4mph: 77.57

Run #3 (Saturday) - still spinning out of the hole, missed 2nd :( but nailed 3rd... reeling in the other lane big time, 6.5mph on him :)

R/T: .324
60': 1.961
330': 5.391
1/8ET: 7.976
1/8mph: 98.65
1000'ET: 10.078
1/4ET: 11.841
1/4mph: 128.60

Run #4 (Saturday - Arm Drop) - still spinning out of the hole, but bangin gears like hell running "all out" LOL... The otehr lane ran 11.033 but I have over 12mph on him and it was barely 2 car lengths...

R/T: 2.507 (arm drop after the green lights)
60': 1.936
330': 5.102
1/8ET: 7.521
1/8mph: 104.52
1000'ET: 9.557
1/4ET: 11.253
1/4mph: 133.75

Fun event, wish they prepped the track a tad better...

didja win? i gotta know who to bet on when it comes out on tv :eyebrows:

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL... didnt make the show.. they picked the first ever 8 sec field

[thefitisgay]

o bummer

[turbovanman²]

Ohhhhhhh, 10.8, :amen:

[BadAssPerformance]

The Z ran the 10.80's last year... the new hamster needs more sugar free Red Bull™ to get its first 10...

[shmedley]

The Z ran the 10.80's last year... the new hamster needs more sugar free Red Bull™ to get its first 10...

Maybe the hamster needs the sugar for that little extra boost.
:lol:

[BadAssPerformance]

Hmmm.... maybe :eyebrows:

[22shelby]

do eeet!!

[BadAssPerformance]

Warped the header flange at Pinks and then noticed a cracked weld when I had it off :( I already fly-cut the flange once and thought I'd try something else this time... a little welding and some filing, hope it holds up!

[turboshad]

Well at least it was an "easy" fix for now at least. Hopefully it holds. Is your turbo braced or is the full weight on the header? I'm a firm believer in braces helping take the stress off of the welds.

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL, yeah, "easy" for anyone with a TIG, dremel and file ;)

Its an SRT-4 flange on an early head and reeally shows the need for the two extra bolts the newer heads have.

These OBX headers have been known to crack... *grumble* children welding *grumble* LOL, but I think where this one cracked its a pretty strong area and my best guess is that its related to the stresses put into it from the flange warping.

No brace, but the downpipe and engien are both mounted solid so the DP might act as a brace of sorts.

[turboshad]

I would look into welding a bracket onto the header so you can mount a brace. It will take a huge load off of your header and I bet it will last quite a while. Here is what I did for mine.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g103/turboshad/93%20Shadow/Engine/DSC02616.jpg

[Reeves]

I would look into welding a bracket onto the header so you can mount a brace. It will take a huge load off of your header and I bet it will last quite a while. Here is what I did for mine.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g103/turboshad/93%20Shadow/Engine/DSC02616.jpg

Where's the "like" button? :thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

Thats a nice idea DJ.... maybe when i make the next header for it?

[BadAssPerformance]

OK, been a while since an Update....

Good news. After two track days, the header flange mod seems to seal! :)

Bad News - Tires got shredded at Mason-Dixon Dragway last month and had trouble hooking, see thread here (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51349)

[BadAssPerformance]

Great Lakes Mopar Festival @ Grove last Sunday

Run #1 - Right off the trailer, spun violently thry 2nd into 3rd .... :( but made some big end power :)

R/T: -.151
60': 2.044
330': 5.288
1/8ET: 7.731
1/8mph: 103.87
1000'ET: 9.766
1/4ET: 11.487
1/4mph: 131.79

Run #2 - Better burnout but still spun violently in 1 and 2

R/T: .335
60': 1.912
330': 5.081
1/8ET: 7.485
1/8mph: 105.64
1000'ET: 9.513
1/4ET: 11.220
1/4mph: 131.02

Run #3 Better burnout but still spun violently in 1 and 2 and for some reason was off the rev limiter in 3rd but not sure if it was spinning.. clutch?

R/T: -.026
60': 1.970
330': 5.193
1/8ET: 7.833
1/8mph: 96.46
1000'ET: 10.038
1/4ET: 11.914
1/4mph: 119.85

[BadAssPerformance]

Tonight at Grove's Slick night. M&H tech told me to try to rotate the slicks and burn them good a couple times, cooling between runs

Run #1 - Right off the trailer, tires flopped, good burnout, tried to hook but spun violently thru 2nd into 3rd which I missed.... :(

R/T: .271
60': 1.789
330': 5.010
1/8ET: 8.236
1/8mph: 74.46
1000'ET: 11.388
1/4ET: 13.928
1/4mph: 97.78

Run #2 - Tires still flopped, Burnout not as good... and another miss at 3rd :o

R/T: .514
60': 1.802
330': 4.893
1/8ET: 7.696
1/8mph: 90.68
1000'ET: 9.901
1/4ET: 11.731
1/4mph: 123.59

Run #3 - Decided to make a 3rd run with tires backwards as there was still some tread irregularity.. Better burnout and a better 60' Finally... but AGAIN missed 3rd... and th etrans feels iffy :o

R/T: .282
60': 1.775
330': 5.102
1/8ET: 7.781
1/8mph: 91.01
1000'ET: 10.013
1/4ET: 11.915
1/4mph: 114.44

Run #4 - Flipped the tires back to normal. and got a good burnout, best of the night. 1 and 2 felt great, nailed 3rd but it went off the limiter, which I am positive was not tire spin, so maybe clutch or OBX or ??? :( I pedaled it and got it to pull again and 4th was kind ahosed too... pretty sure this was a 10 something if it was clean :o

R/T: .233
60': 1.768
330': 4.845
1/8ET: 7.358
1/8mph: 101.66
1000'ET: 9.425
1/4ET: 11.240
1/4mph: 121.00

[Darkapollo]

Nice times!

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks! Wish I had a clean run on it! Hope its not hurt too bad :(

Here is interesting for comparisson.. on tonights run I was on the limiter in 3rd for about a second (thats a lotta time) and it wasnt accelerating during that... and 4th was crap too... so not bad for a pooched tun :o Need to check data log to try to figure out WTF it was doing :confused2:



R/T: .307
60': 1.693
330': 4.668
1/8ET: 7.054
1/8mph: 104/80
1000'ET: 9.109
1/4ET: 10.844
1/4mph: 130.47




R/T: .233
60': 1.768
330': 4.845
1/8ET: 7.358
1/8mph: 101.66
1000'ET: 9.425
1/4ET: 11.240
1/4mph: 121.00

[turboshad]

Looks good JT. So where are you shifting at? What was your final conclusion on the slick flip? Seemed to help?

[Reeves]

So where are you shifting at?

He's got a lever that comes up from the floor that he moves to engage the different gears.

[Darkapollo]

He's got a lever that comes up from the floor that he moves to engage the different gears.

:drum::rolleyes:

[Directconnection]

Where's the "like" button?

Between your legs....

[Reeves]

Between your legs....

SAWEET!!!!

Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like

:rockon:

[BadAssPerformance]

He's got a lever that comes up from the floor that he moves to engage the different gears.

LOL Exaaaaacty!


Looks good JT. So where are you shifting at? What was your final conclusion on the slick flip? Seemed to help?

7k-ish I gotta review that data log from the last run but it had a lotta limiter time in 3rd before I clutched it up

Will take slick pics and update the thread :thumb:

[badandy]

SAWEET!!!!

Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like, Like

:rockon:
Funny sh*t!

J.T. your stuff makes for a good read man :thumb:

[cordes]

My money for the problem with the revs going up without the wheel spin is the clutch. I think the OBX would go much more violently than that.

JT, do you think it's time to go through the trans? Do you think the bearings could be a little wonky causing the missed shifts? Wasn't it the bearings at the ends of the shafts which caused Reeves' case to break the way it did?

[BadAssPerformance]

Funny sh*t!

J.T. your stuff makes for a good read man :thumb:

Def funny sh*t Reeves! :thumb:

LOL, glad you like Andy :thumb:


My money for the problem with the revs going up without the wheel spin is the clutch. I think the OBX would go much more violently than that.

JT, do you think it's time to go through the trans? Do you think the bearings could be a little wonky causing the missed shifts? Wasn't it the bearings at the ends of the shafts which caused Reeves' case to break the way it did?

Yeah, definitely gotta check the trans..............

[Shadow]

What preasure are you running in the slicks? If you go out again with no other changes, try running a couple more lbs preasure and see if your mph comes back. If it does, then your most likely getting the clutch too hot on the dig and it's giving it up in third like the Charger was doing.

That, or try the ol 2nd gear launch, that'l tell you for sure! :eyebrows:

[BadAssPerformance]

I've run from 12 down to 9... I think the sweet spot with these tires and car is 11. The 3 runs with tires backwards were at 9-10 (per M&H) and the 4th run was at 11

The low mph on that last run was due to 3rd and 4th issues... I am having a hard time beleiving its the clutch slipping then not slipping... it is either the clutch not engaging (held up somehow from moving fully back in, maybe a result of the SRT4 plate with 568 release bearing???) or it is not seating in 3rd gear fully?

Time to take it apart.... :(

[Shadow]

I've run from 12 down to 9... I think the sweet spot with these tires and car is 11. The 3 runs with tires backwards were at 9-10 (per M&H) and the 4th run was at 11

The low mph on that last run was due to 3rd and 4th issues... I am having a hard time beleiving its the clutch slipping then not slipping... it is either the clutch not engaging (held up somehow from moving fully back in, maybe a result of the SRT4 plate with 568 release bearing???) or it is not seating in 3rd gear fully?

Time to take it apart.... :(

I hear ya, and knowing what clutch your running I would say your prob OK.

Just remember that on the Charger I could run 11.1 @ 136mph in the left lane with a 1.9-2.0 60' (shi$ for traction), then go down the right lane (good traction) and go 11.9 @ 123mph with a 1.8X 60' with the clutch letting go in 3rd and 4th. I repeated this for an entire day, then went out the next day and the car still trapped 136mph in the left lane!

[Aries_Turbo]

what clutch combo are you running JT?

Brian

[BadAssPerformance]

Running ACT 6-puck/HD...

http://www.badassperformance.com/mrides/z/08_specs/act-disk.jpg
http://www.badassperformance.com/mrides/z/08_specs/act-plate.jpg

[BadAssPerformance]

Lotta time to kill between runs last time out waiting for the slicks and engine to cool... so I took a few sunset pics :)

Might have to turn a couple of these into wallpaper...

[omni_840]

Cool pics!xz

[Reeves]

Nice pics!

How'd you run?

[BadAssPerformance]

Nice pics!

How'd you run?

Thanks!

That was from this night,

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=692920&postcount=1031

havnt run it since... need to open trans :(

[Reeves]

Thanks!

That was from this night,

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=692920&postcount=1031

havnt run it since... need to open trans :(

Dang.

[BadAssPerformance]

Pulled the trans apart (in car) today to try to find out why 3rd gear is flakey.

Good news in that the gears looked OK... the dogs on 2 and 3 have definitely seen better days but not sure if they are beyond usabel yet tho, what was the spec again?

Might be the prototype brass pads? Clcik Here for Brass Shift Fork Pad Discussion (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52135)

How important is the plastic pin in the mainshaft bearing, looks like its seen better days? LOL! What is its function other than guiding the shaft into the bearing during assemble?

And I don't knwo A568 as well as A555, what is this thing is that fell down when I pulled the gears out the side? :confused2:

[Shadow]

That looks like a dowel pin, no? What's the first pic of?

[Pat]

That looks like a dowel pin, no? What's the first pic of?

I think that's the dowel in that goes in the shaft the reverse idler is on...I think it holds the idler from sliding on the shaft. I could be wrong, so double check me

[Reeves]

I also think the dowel goes in the reverse gear shaft. Anti-rotation pin. Check that shaft and see if it's pin is missing.

What the hell is pic 1 of?

Also, inside of you main shaft bearing is a sleeve. Isn't that supposed to be pressed on your main shaft?

[Shadow]

Also, inside of you main shaft bearing is a sleeve. Isn't that supposed to be pressed on your main shaft?

Ja know, I was thinking this same thing. The bearing looks good, but isn't that sleeve supposed to be press fit!

[turboshad]

Yes, that race should be pressed on. I was going to say it probably started to walk off and wear throught the plastic. I found mine starting to do that before I left for SDAC so I pressed it back on with some loctite bearing retaining compound. That dowel goes into the 5th gear shift rod in the hole that is in the squared cut out forky part that the reverse rod rests in (I can see it in my head but have no idea how to explain it :p ). It is captured by the reverse rod.

[Reeves]

I'd def check that bearing and replace if need be. That is what sh*t the bed on my trans and you see the results of that:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11975&thumb=1 ('http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11975')

[cordes]

I concur with what everyone else is saying. It looks to me like you are lucky to have pulled the trans apart when you did JT.

[MiniMopar]

Good news in that the gears looked OK... the dogs on 2 and 3 have definitely seen better days but not sure if they are beyond usabel yet tho, what was the spec again?

Might be the prototype brass pads? Clcik Here for Brass Shift Fork Pad Discussion (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52135)

My guess is the problem is brass...but not the pads. I've gone through two sets of plastic pads on my A568. The bottom line fir me is that the sychro is done and it only takes one or two really bad missed shifts to destroy the pads.


How important is the plastic pin in the mainshaft bearing, looks like its seen better days? LOL! What is its function other than guiding the shaft into the bearing during assemble?

I believe it serves some lubrication purpose. I'm not sure if it brings oil from the case into the main shaft or if it pulls oil from the main shaft into the bearing. The fact that it has been destroyed like that says to me that your main shaft is walking. It is centered by the front ball bearing on the main shaft, which is held in place by that big snap ring around the outside of it and squeezed between the two retainer plates.

[Reeves]

I believe it serves some lubrication purpose. I'm not sure if it brings oil from the case into the main shaft or if it pulls oil from the main shaft into the bearing. The fact that it has been destroyed like that says to me that your main shaft is walking. It is centered by the front ball bearing on the main shaft, which is held in place by that big snap ring around the outside of it and squeezed between the two retainer plates.

^What he said.

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks for the info everyone! yeah I didnt even look at that bearing yet but seperating sounds exactly like what happened.

Where do folks get their trans bearings from these days?

[MiniMopar]

If your main shaft is walking, that could also explain your shifting problems since the shifter won't have enough throw.

[Reeves]

Thanks for the info everyone! yeah I didnt even look at that bearing yet but seperating sounds exactly like what happened.

Where do folks get their trans bearings from these days?

Ours were made by this company and were very nice. The company we bought them from even let us know that the main shaft bearing is no longer available and wouldn't be included in the kit (555 bearing) and gave us a discount:

www.transtar1.com

Also, this is VERY useful for tracking down parts (thanks Fleck):

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=134

[BadAssPerformance]

If your main shaft is walking, that could also explain your shifting problems since the shifter won't have enough throw.

Bingo... I kinda thought that when I took the plastic piece carnage out...

[BadAssPerformance]

Ours were made by this company and were very nice. The company we bought them from even let us know that the main shaft bearing is no longer available and wouldn't be included in the kit (555 bearing) and gave us a discount:

www.transtar1.com

Also, this is VERY useful for tracking down parts (thanks Fleck):

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vbarticles.php?do=article&articleid=134

Awesome, thanks!

[Shadow]

Bingo... I kinda thought that when I took the plastic piece carnage out...

Is that what the first pic is? Plastic puke! :yuck:

[cordes]

JT, could you measure the main shaft where the sleeve is supposed to press on please? I'm wondering if there is a combination of parts which could be used to allow for the older main shafts to be used in the newer transmissions.

[Rampage16V]

The main shaft I have in the box is good. hey that dowel is for shift rail interlock to stop it from going in 2 gears at once.

[turbovanman²]

Is your mainshaft chewed up?


Thanks for the info everyone! yeah I didnt even look at that bearing yet but seperating sounds exactly like what happened.

Where do folks get their trans bearings from these days?

I can get them from a local transmission supply shop-

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46305

[BadAssPerformance]

The main shaft I have in the box is good. hey that dowel is for shift rail interlock to stop it from going in 2 gears at once.

Cool and gotcha :thumb:

This is a 3.50:1 shaft... is the shaft in a 90 small spline the same as a 91 big spline A523?


Is your mainshaft chewed up?

I can get them from a local transmission supply shop-

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46305

Mainshaft looks OK but it will need a new sleeve probably... hope this all comes in the Transtar bearing kit I just ordered :thumb:

[MiniMopar]

JT, could you measure the main shaft where the sleeve is supposed to press on please? I'm wondering if there is a combination of parts which could be used to allow for the older main shafts to be used in the newer transmissions.

If you remove the sleeve to end up with a race that fits the old style bearings. To put it another way, the 90+ case has a larger pocket and a larger bearing there. The shaft didn't change...they just pressed a sleeve on. To put it another another way, the '89 A555 with the newer syncro setup and mainshaft uses the same shaft as the A568. It just lacks the sleeve.

[cordes]

If you remove the sleeve to end up with a race that fits the old style bearings. To put it another way, the 90+ case has a larger pocket and a larger bearing there. The shaft didn't change...they just pressed a sleeve on. To put it another another way, the '89 A555 with the newer syncro setup and mainshaft uses the same shaft as the A568. It just lacks the sleeve.

Thanks for confirming that for me Russ. Now we just need to find a way to use the later synchro on the earlier main shaft or vice versa...

[MiniMopar]

Putting a new gearset into an older case should be trivial. You just need a donor '89 A555 to get the right fork assemblies. I know the 3-4 cluster is the same between the '89 A555 and the A568. I'm less sure about the 1-2 cluster. I remember measuring them and seeing a slight difference in the slider groove...but it was small and may just be manufacturing tolerances. The only possible caveat might be hardening...I don't know if the shaft from an A568/523 has the same treatment as an older shaft, since it never sees direct bearing contact.

You won't be able to swap these gear clusters to an early style shaft (88 and earlier). The splines for the 1-2 cluster are totally different.

[glhs0426]

That little plastic thing that is ground up is for directing oil into the shaft so centrifical force can lubricate the bearings and gears on the that shaft.

[BadAssPerformance]

Gotcha... know if they come in a bearing kit or if I need to scrounce one?

[turbovanman²]

Gotcha... know if they come in a bearing kit or if I need to scrounce one?

Not that i know of, its an OEM part or you need to find a core with one.

[BadAssPerformance]

f u u u u u u u u u . . . .

OK, I'll dig thru my parts boxes :(

[turbovanman²]

f u u u u u u u u u . . . .

OK, I'll dig thru my parts boxes :(

I'll see if I have one, LMK if you can't find one.

[fleckster]

JT, they are still available new from the dealer. From my Transmission rebuild part number guide in the KC, part number is 4531528. They are $2.50 list price. I found a place online selling them for $1.73. It would be cheaper than the shipping to send you one!

[BadAssPerformance]

Got a link to the place online? Alex checked yesterday and said he couldnt get?

[fleckster]

If my part number above is correct, I found it listed as available here.

http://www.moparonlineparts.com/PARTLOCATOR/index.cfm?action=multisearch&siteid=214954

[Shadow]

I was still able to purchase that bearing and race from the dealer as of a year ago. I bought the bearing for something like 120.00cnd and thought it would come with the race for that price! Not quite. Had to spend another 90.00 to get the race.

[Reeves]

I was still able to purchase that bearing and race from the dealer as of a year ago. I bought the bearing for something like 120.00cnd and thought it would come with the race for that price! Not quite. Had to spend another 90.00 to get the race.

Ouch!

[glhs0426]

JT, they are still available new from the dealer. From my Transmission rebuild part number guide in the KC, part number is 4531528. They are $2.50 list price. I found a place online selling them for $1.73. It would be cheaper than the shipping to send you one!

p/n 4531528 is NS1 and no dealers show it in inventory. If you can find a new one online buy it.

[Reeves]

p/n 4531528 is NS1 and no dealers show it in inventory. If you can find a new one online buy it.

Or buy all of them!

[fleckster]

When I bought the bearing and race for my Spirit a little over a year ago, I paid $78 for the bearing and another $35 for the race both from the dealer.

[MiniMopar]

I bought all my bearings from drivetrain.com, but that was about 4 or 5 years ago. They were not cheap, but still cheaper than the dealer.

[BadAssPerformance]

JT, they are still available new from the dealer. From my Transmission rebuild part number guide in the KC, part number is 4531528. They are $2.50 list price. I found a place online selling them for $1.73. It would be cheaper than the shipping to send you one!

Can you check the number? Coming up as a "COVER TRANSAXLE OIL "


Oil Feeder (black) A-520, A-523, A-543, A-555, A-568 4531528

And mine was grey?

Thanks for all your help!

[fleckster]

According to the '92 Parts Manual I have with me, it shows the part as "4531528 - FEEDER, Inter Shaft Inner Oil". It doesn't specify color in the manual but as you can see in the picture below from the one that was in my Spirit, it was gray in color too. Maybe the replacements are now black? Or maybe the same part in the earlier transmissions (A525, A520, A555) were black?

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/685/medium/A-568_Picture_1.JPG

[MiniMopar]

I've seen at least two types (short and long post) and two colors (black and grey). Not sure if one implies the other or why they are different.

[Reeves]

I've seen at least two types (short and long post) and two colors (black and grey). Not sure if one implies the other or why they are different.

Same here. I thought the short/long post corresponds with where the exit hole is on the shaft. Really just guessing at that though.

There is a pun in there somewhere.

[glhs0426]

The oil feeder, the $2.50 part, p/n 4531528 was used 90-95 in the 523/568 transmission according to the parts catalog. It was labled a cover in the parts catalog when I looked it up today. Where was it used in 94-95? The ES body in europe in the 568 behind the diesel. ES body is european S body van.

John

[BadAssPerformance]

OK, got a line on a new one (thanks for the link Fleck!) and also salvaged a black one out of a space case and have another black one in another spare case so I should be ok one way or another...

Sooo, whats the hot ticket to get that bearing out with the trans still in the car? slide hammer?

[BadAssPerformance]

OK, got a line on a new one (thanks for the link Fleck!) and also salvaged a black one out of a space case and have another black one in another spare case so I should be ok one way or another...

Sooo, whats the hot ticket to get that bearing out with the trans still in the car? slide hammer?

[turbovanman²]

Slide hammer with that attachment that has ears you can spread out to catch the lip.

[BadAssPerformance]

Pic of attachment?

[Reeves]

Sooo, whats the hot ticket to get that bearing out with the trans still in the car? slide hammer?


Patience. It's a FPITA!

Cummins Tools makes a specialty tool for this bearing. I think I have the part number some where....but I won't be able to get to it till Monday. And when I looked it up, it was $$$$!!!!!