BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

[BadAssPerformance]

120 lb/hr injectors have arrived :evil:

[jckrieger]

So what are you doing with your old injectors? :)

[BadAssPerformance]

Probably just hang onto them for now... at least until I know if the 120's work well

[8valves]

JT, what pump are you on, and what size feed line?

[BadAssPerformance]

A-1000... -10... only restriction is the -08 Kinsler rail

[8valves]

Even then -8 should be plenty. What's your base pressure? Do you log fuel pressure on your runs, or monitor it? Sometimes A-1000's aren't the most reliable pump, sometimes they are. Good practice to keep an eye on them.

Did I miss part of the story here that the car has made a full pass at 25-30 psi and >100% DC's?

EDIT: re-reading gets me that at 15 psi it was reading 80% DC's, right? If timing were in the near same ballpark another 100 WHP wouldn't out of the question... that would be way more than enough to bump the DC way out of the park! And if I'm following that right, the 122 mph pass was then the big boost pass with outrageous DC's. I think I got it now... ha!

[BadAssPerformance]

Only past 100%DC in the higher RPM... I attached the data log to post #334

No way for the old school FAST to data log FP but I think I can see the gage on the in-car video.

EDIT: base FP is 43psi

[8valves]

Lol, you need to ditch some of your overlays on there so it's easier to see!

However, follow me here. By my eyesight, am I not seeing maxed value of DC in first and second, tapering to less percentage as the car moves to the later gears? Even though the car is gaining boost for longer, steadier periods of time when it's in 3rd and 4th?

If that's the case that seems quite Bass Ackwards bud. Thoughts?

Edit: oh yeah, and I'm sure you noticed that max TPS is 72% right? Time to reset the range on that guy! Ha! :p

Your system isn't basing pulsewidth off of TPS at all, is it? I would imagine you have some TPS input for throttle tip in, etc, but not for WOT fuel calculations. I wouldn't think so.

[BadAssPerformance]

It didnt sustain 30psi in 3rd and 4th, only in 1 ad 2 off the 7k rpm limiter :o

[BadAssPerformance]

Yeah, TPS is more for tip in, etc, not for fuel calcs. From what FAST told me it doesnt need to be 100% and also not 0% at idle

[black86glhs]

Yeah, TPS is more for tip in, etc, not for fuel calcs. From what FAST told me it doesnt need to be 100% and also not 0% at idleIt depends on how they have the system setup, but I was under the impression it needed to be above 80% or 85% to be considered full throttle. 72% does seem a little low.

[BadAssPerformance]

It doesnt have an open loop WOT table, just reads off the regular table

[black86glhs]

It doesnt have an open loop WOT table, just reads off the regular tableNever mind.....:o
That makes more sense now.:nod:

[BadAssPerformance]

First time running at Byron Saturday for Mopar Day... Track looks like it runs downhill, but might just be surrounding terrain?

Also first time out with teh 120pph injectors....

Run #1 15psi ... missed 3rd

R/T: .051
60': 1.863
330': 5.145
1/8ET: 8.038
1/8mph: 86.90
1000'ET: 10.452
1/4ET: 12.452
1/4mph: 110.86

Run #2 26psi ... missed 3rd again... coulda woulda been a damn good run

R/T: .135
60': 1.893
330': 5.050
1/8ET: 7.706
1/8mph: 96.02
1000'ET: 9.884
1/4ET: 11.734 < best run ever missing a gear, LOL!
1/4mph: 123.10

Run #3 17psi (not sure where bosot went?) 1st 11 under 20psi boost for the Z

R/T: .444
60': 1.841
330': 4.988
1/8ET: 7.627
1/8mph: 94.50
1000'ET: 9.901
1/4ET: 11.833
1/4mph: 115.24

[contraption22]

Nice work, JT!

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks! I'm really thinking about 26" slicks..... with the loooong gears it just seems to be a lot... and I dont want to cut the wheel wells, LOL stupid street cars!

[dds78910]

Nice run JT, glad to see you got back in the 11's!

[turbokid]

Well I just read this entire thread cause its 1 am lmao.
Awesome project and keep up the good work :thumb:

[raccoon]

same here, i dont know how i missed this one.

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks guys! :thumb:

[turbo2point2]

Nice job JT. Can't wait to see what she'll do with some traction and more boost:thumb:

Have you tried to mount the 26" under the car? There are even some 25" available as well, might work out better.

[rx2mazda]

nice runs JT!!

[turbovanman²]

Great job, your hauling azz, :hail: :thumb:

[mario03SRT]

[QUOTE=BadAssPerformance;524645]
Run #3 17psi (not sure where bosot went?) 1st 11 under 20psi boost for the Z

Do you have a check valve to your pcv? Just a thought....

[BadAssPerformance]

Nice job JT. Can't wait to see what she'll do with some traction and more boost:thumb:

Have you tried to mount the 26" under the car? There are even some 25" available as well, might work out better.

Thanks guys :thumb:

I have not yet... but thinking about it!


Do you have a check valve to your pcv? Just a thought....

Hmmm.. not exactly running a PCV, more of an open breather.

[Reaper1]

26" tall tires *should* fit as long as the backspacing on the wheels are good and they are centered in the wheel wells. My 225/50/16 Kumho's were listed as 26.1" tall by the manufacturer. The only problem I had was rubbing on the front of the wheel wells, but that was due to other factors..

[BadAssPerformance]

Slicks grow... the 24.5's rub the back of the front GFX

[t3rse]

M&H says they grow about 1.5" (radius)

[BadAssPerformance]

So a 26" grows to 29".... damn

[cordes]

So a 26" grows to 29".... damn

That's a whole lot of tire under there!

[Pat]

M&H says they grow about 1.5" (radius)

At what speed?

[t3rse]

150 (I don't know the assumed pressure)....just what they said...I don't know for sure. If so that's less growth at our speeds.

[BadAssPerformance]

SDAC-19 BadAssPerformance Shelby Z 12.23 @ 111mph 15psi boost - in car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vB6F-LRA-Q

SDAC-19 BadAssPerformance Shelby Z 11.70@ 122mph 30psi boost - in car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzR9yoLe8FI

Byron Mopar Day BadAssPerformance Shelby Z 12.45 @ 110mph - 15psi - missed 3rd - Mitsubishi!? WF!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUVex4Cn078

Byron Mopar Day BadAssPerformance Shelby Z 11.73 @ 123mph - 26psi - missed 3rd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISe71pD2G6w

Byron Mopar Day BadAssPerformance Shelby Z 11.83 @ 115mph - 17psi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8G9_6wiDVI

[bakes]

Sweet

[dodgeshadowchik]

:) nice job kicking that talon's arse.

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL, was more fun racing the 2nd red Challenger

[dds78910]

Nice vids! Thanks for posting them.:thumb:

[Reaper1]

I know you said on the 11.70 pass at SDAC the car was breaking up bad, but why did you wait so long to shift? The shift light was on for what seemed an eternity. Not bashing on you, just curious. I'm certainly no "god" to drag racing, that's for sure! LOL

[BadAssPerformance]

I know you said on the 11.70 pass at SDAC the car was breaking up bad, but why did you wait so long to shift? The shift light was on for what seemed an eternity. Not bashing on you, just curious. I'm certainly no "god" to drag racing, that's for sure! LOL

Was spinning the slicks off the rev limiter thru most of 2nd, was waiting for the vehicle speed to catch up to the wheel speed so it didnt bog going into 3rd.

[black86glhs]

Hey JT.....is it burning oil at higher rpms? Looks like it in the runs, but not sure if it is oil or fuel.

[BadAssPerformance]

I'm almost positive that the oil return (from turbo) into the pan is getting blocked whan all the oil stands up against teh back of the pan launching and the oil bleeds out the exhaust. Gotta figure out a better return spot.. was thinking of using the crank sensor hole but I do not want to slow the crank down spraying oil at it...

[BadAssPerformance]

Updates... Wired a trigger to the 2-step and ghetto rigged a 2-stage boost controller to play with tomorrow :D

[Turbo3Iroc]

I'm almost positive that the oil return (from turbo) into the pan is getting blocked whan all the oil stands up against teh back of the pan launching and the oil bleeds out the exhaust. Gotta figure out a better return spot.. was thinking of using the crank sensor hole but I do not want to slow the crank down spraying oil at it...

Is it possible to make a shield that deflects the oil down?

[Turbo3Iroc]

Updates... Wired a trigger to the 2-step and ghetto rigged a 2-stage boost controller to play with tomorrow :D

That might be your traction right there.

[black86glhs]

Updates... Wired a trigger to the 2-step and ghetto rigged a 2-stage boost controller to play with tomorrow :DCool more toys!!
As for the oil burning, glad it is something relatively simple and not rings not sealing or worse.

[BadAssPerformance]

Is it possible to make a shield that deflects the oil down?

Maybe.. Hmmmm.... where is the SRT-4 oil return?


That might be your traction right there.

Funny thing about today... spinning at 7000 rpm seems to pull the car to a better 60' time than spinning at 5000 rpm.

The low boost/high boost was a bust today, could not get it to consistantly hold over 20psi :(


Cool more toys!!
As for the oil burning, glad it is something relatively simple and not rings not sealing or worse.

More distractions, LOL! Somehow I didnt miss 3rd the two runs I played with those toys!

Yeah, I think the oil burning sucks but better than the alternatives... better not be rings, they only have 187 miles on them! ... well, most of those are down the track tho, LOL!

[BadAssPerformance]

4 runs today at Great Lakes Mopar festival at Grove...

Run #1 Off 2-step 4k rpm (BOGGED BAD) 15psi, up to 26psi in 3rd but fell back to 20psi

R/T: 1.211 (wanted to see how much boost it would launch off of on 2 step)
60': 2.176 (did I mention it bogged?)
330': 5.698
1/8ET: 8.484
1/8mph: 90.89
1000'ET: 10.797
1/4ET: 12.791
1/4mph: 112.34

Run #2 Off 2-step 5k rpm (didnt bog) ~26psi in 1st and 2nd but only ~20psi in 3rd/4th

R/T: .381
60': 1.915
330': 5.046
1/8ET: 7.641
1/8mph: 95.98
1000'ET: 9.882
1/4ET: 11.816
1/4mph: 120.41

Run #3 no 2 step, only high boost setting... 25psi missed 3rd, got out of it to keep engine cooler ... identical 60' and 330' to Eric's Shadow in the other lane which was running mid 11's...

Him...........ME
-.053 R/T: .046
1.882 60': 1.873
5.040 330': 5.034
7.589 1/8ET: 8.225
98.42 1/8mph: 71.37
9.849 1000'ET: 11.49
11.941 1/4ET: 14.689
107.62 1/4mph: 67.91


Run #4 no 2 step, only high boost setting... ~20psi WTF, need more boost! :( Eric's Shadow in the other lane again... I red lit hole shot him by .170 and he barely beat my by only a car

Him...........ME
.126 R/T: -.044
1.871 60': 1.801
4.962 330': 5.039
7.515 1/8ET: 7.680
97.49 1/8mph: 94.54
9.705 1000'ET: 9.935
11.593 1/4ET: 11.852
118.96 1/4mph: 121.45

[Turbo3Iroc]

Maybe.. Hmmmm.... where is the SRT-4 oil return?

I don't know, just throwing out ideas. Never seen inside one.

Funny thing about today... spinning at 7000 rpm seems to pull the car to a better 60' time than spinning at 5000 rpm.

The low boost/high boost was a bust today, could not get it to consistantly hold over 20psi :(



More distractions, LOL! Somehow I didnt miss 3rd the two runs I played with those toys!

Yeah, I think the oil burning sucks but better than the alternatives... better not be rings, they only have 187 miles on them! ... well, most of those are down the track tho, LOL!

Aww crap. :mad:

[BadAssPerformance]

In the runs I posted, the Shadow I ran has a 400lb advantage and is on 26" tires... I get a better 60' spinning? Hmmm...

[mario03SRT]

Maybe.. Hmmmm.... where is the SRT-4 oil return?


To the back of the block above the pan.

[BadAssPerformance]

To the back of the block above the pan.

Hmmm.. got a pic or know where?

[rx2mazda]

Hmmm.. got a pic or know where?

Check post #24,28 of DJ's shadow project

[BadAssPerformance]

My oil return is in the same spot DJ put his... Where was the SRT OEM one?

[turboshad]

I know there are better pics out there but here is one. It looks like there is a boss cast into the block but that's a pretty easy work around. It's on the lower left by the strap wratchet.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3609/3696584858_b8376f2404.jpg

[BadAssPerformance]

OK I see the tube... Hmmm.. maybe if I use sewer pipe in the current location like DJ mine wont back up? LOL! I though -10 was big enough! :confused2:

[turboshad]

Real men use -16 :eyebrows:

[BadAssPerformance]

Real men use -16 :eyebrows:

...for fuel :D

[black86glhs]

JT...don't overthink it. Just let it drain to the ground and you won't have to worry about the sloshing oil. See so simple.:evil::D

[Reaper1]

^^ I don't think that's the type of dry sump system he had in mind! LOL

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL! theres 11 seconds of oil in the pan right? ;)

[turbovanman²]

That 11:70 run is sweet, :partywoot:

Sounds like you spun thru 1st and mostly 2nd, and the higher boost lets it rev quicker, :D

So 15 psi more nets you .5 of sec faster, :eyebrows:

[BadAssPerformance]

That 11:70 run is sweet, :partywoot:

Sounds like you spun thru 1st and mostly 2nd, and the higher boost lets it rev quicker, :D

So 15 psi more nets you .5 of sec faster, :eyebrows:

The 11.70 run... spinning hard 1st and 2nd... that popping noise... that was 130% DC on the 72pph injectors, it was NOT happy :( The 11.73 that I missed 3rd was the best run...

[black86glhs]

^^ I don't think that's the type of dry sump system he had in mind! LOLYour right, I should have asked first. LOL


LOL! theres 11 seconds of oil in the pan right? ;)Only if you use the stock oil pump. A high flow pump will empty it too fast. That is the 1/8th mile version.:eyebrows:


Not trying to rub it in, but if you could make a 3rd gear once in a while, you might break 11.7!!!!:rockon:

[BadAssPerformance]

What about a ported stocker? ;)

[black86glhs]

What about a ported stocker? ;)Ask Matt.:hail::eyebrows:

[BadAssPerformance]

Ran a few times at the Mopar Nats...

All runs on T or ST psi... as in thats what it read on the 30psi AutoMeter boost gauge :eek: I turned the boost down after each run but think thats as low as it goes.. I think I'm running "all of it" .... Intake temps were HOT (over 190°F top of 4th) but still @ 11.50:1 A/F on 110 octane :thumb: She's got more in her :D

FRIDAY

Run #1 STpsi (Maybe 35psi?) ... right off the trailer

R/T: .111
60': 1.981
330': 5.196
1/8ET: 7.718
1/8mph: 98.00 Best 1/8mph for the 2.4L at this point
1000'ET: 9.880
1/4ET: 11.675 Best ET for the 2.4L at this point
1/4mph: 126.29 New Best mph for the 2.4L!

Run #2 missed 3rd :( Let off to save heat

R/T: .101
60': 1.870
330': 5.051
1/8ET: 8.154
1/8mph: 70.75
1000'ET: 11.401
1/4ET: 14.548
1/4mph: 67.35

Run #3

R/T: .070
60': 1.875
330': 5.071
1/8ET: 7.590
1/8mph: 99.31 Best 1/8mph for the 2.4L at this point
1000'ET: 9.747
1/4ET: 11.57.6 Best ET for the 2.4L at this point
1/4mph: 124.06


SATURDAY

Run #1 ... 2-Step 5k ... 6psi boost at line

R/T: .072
60': 1.950
330': 5.060
1/8ET: 7.555
1/8mph: 100.53 New Best 1/8mph for the 2.4L!
1000'ET: 9.676
1/4ET: 11.501 Best ET for the 2.4L at this point
1/4mph: 124.01

Run #2 NO 2-step ... better 60'

R/T: .249
60': 1.810
330': 4.978
1/8ET: 7.499
1/8mph: 99.55
1000'ET: 9.638
1/4ET: 11.445 New Best ET for the 2.4L!
1/4mph: 125.26


SUNDAY

Run #1 ... zeroed cams missed 3rd but got back in it to check intake temps

R/T: .298
60': 1.947
330': 5.147
1/8ET: 8.081
1/8mph: 87.99
1000'ET: 12.281
1/4ET: 12.281
1/4mph: 118.57

Run #2

R/T: .678
60': 1.937
330': 5.120
1/8ET: 7.656
1/8mph: 98.91
1000'ET: 9.795
1/4ET: 11.598
1/4mph: 125.56

Run #3 missed 3rd but tried to run Reeves down anyways :D

R/T: .247
60': 1.960
330': 5.201
1/8ET: 8.070
1/8mph: 89.41
1000'ET: 10.334
1/4ET: 12.222
1/4mph: 123.06 best mph for a 12 with 2.4L LOL


So, pretty happy overall... beat the snot outta it and it took it like a champ... Just gotta get the boost down so the damn intake temps are not so hot :(

[turboshad]

Run #2 NO 2-step ... better 60'

R/T: .249
60': 1.810
330': 4.978
1/8ET: 7.499
1/8mph: 99.55
1000'ET: 9.638
1/4ET: 11.445 New Best ET for the 2.4L!
1/4mph: 125.26



Sweet runs JT. Is this your all time PB or just for the 2.4? A pic of your car made it onto jj07's build log on neons.org. He said he was battling it out with Reeves for first place.

http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=273958&start=75

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks :thumb: yes the 11.44 is the PB for the car... this trip was actually the first time the 2.4L beat the 11.62 the 2.2L ran :o

[turbovanman²]

Nice runs, :thumb:

Is your turbo now maxed out? What is it again?

[1984rampage]

Awesome runs! :thumb:

Just curious.. What are your goals for the car? 10's? :D

[BadAssPerformance]

Nice runs, :thumb:

Is your turbo now maxed out? What is it again?

Well, pretty sure the 35psi was "all of it" ... I'm going to lower the boost and try to go quicker.. intake was HOT

T3/T4 ... a .63a/r Stage 3 and 60-1HiFi in the smaller "B" cover

[BadAssPerformance]

Awesome runs! :thumb:

Just curious.. What are your goals for the car? 10's? :D

Thanks! ... 10's would be nice.. its a heavy street car tho... still has power windows :o

[black86glhs]

Well, pretty sure the 35psi was "all of it" ... I'm going to lower the boost and try to go quicker.. intake was HOT

T3/T4 ... a .63a/r Stage 3 and 60-1HiFi in the smaller "B" coverWhat's next, E-cover? or are you going to try and dial this setup in better?

[BadAssPerformance]

This turbo is not yet optimized so it will be in for a bit longer. Have access to buy a similar turbo with an E cover, BB center, and Stage V wheel :D ... and have a GT35R on the shelf but it would take a bit of fabbing...

[turbovanman²]

Well, pretty sure the 35psi was "all of it" ... I'm going to lower the boost and try to go quicker.. intake was HOT

T3/T4 ... a .63a/r Stage 3 and 60-1HiFi in the smaller "B" cover

That's right, 60 trim, you brought that up in my 60 trim thread a few years ago.

Were you measuring intake temp or doing the hand burn test, :eyebrows:

Go GT35R, shouldn't take much fabbing, :partywoot:

[BadAssPerformance]

Data log.. almost 200°F air temp at the end of the 1/4 in 4th :eek:

Not much fabbing... downpipe, WG, IC pipes...

[turbovanman²]

Data log.. almost 200°F air temp at the end of the 1/4 in 4th :eek:

Not much fabbing... downpipe, WG, IC pipes...

Ouch.

That's nothing for you, ;)

What are you using for boost control now?

[BadAssPerformance]

TiAL WG... turns out the WG was held closed with boost.... yes, 35psi was "all of it" :o

[Rampage16V]

Well, pretty sure the 35psi was "all of it" ... I'm going to lower the boost and try to go quicker.. intake was HOT

T3/T4 ... a .63a/r Stage 3 and 60-1HiFi in the smaller "B" cover

I just checked my data log. mind you I have the sensor in the intercooler pipe just before the throttle body and max temp at the top of high gear is 107 F/42.2C

[BadAssPerformance]

I just checked my data log. mind you I have the sensor in the intercooler pipe just before the throttle body and max temp at the top of high gear is 107 F/42.2C

wow, thats nice and cool...

[BadAssPerformance]

A couple of us went to Grove today for Labor Day Test-n-Tune.. I'll update the CL thread here soon

All runs on 3X psi... I need to see if this TiAL WG is effed?

Run #1 ... right off the trailer, not too bad

R/T: .242
60': 1.855
330': 5.006
1/8ET: 7.529
1/8mph: 99.68
1000'ET: 9.660
1/4ET: 11.446 (.001 off previous best ET)
1/4mph: 126.72 New Best mph at this point!

Run #2 - This run was expensive and scary :( Cut the left slick and it went flat in 4th... its hard to brake with one front tire! Hopefully Bogart can fix teh carnage :( ... so, after that.. badas run on a FLAT! :D

R/T: .225
60': 1.816
330': 4.951
1/8ET: 7.436
1/8mph: 101.05 (New Best 1/8 mph)
1000'ET: 9.571
1/4ET: 11.375 New Best ET at this point!
1/4mph: 125.57

Run #3 bolted the 23x7.5" M&H's on

R/T: .251
60': 1.836
330': 5.018
1/8ET: 7.487
1/8mph: 48.21 (WTF!? mayweb 98?)
1000'ET: 9.632
1/4ET: 11.420
1/4mph: 130.45 New Best mph at this point!

Run #4

R/T: .317
60': 1.824
330': 4.990
1/8ET: 7.480
1/8mph: 48.60 (Again, WTF!?)
1000'ET: 9.614
1/4ET: 11.399
1/4mph: 130.47 New Best mph for the Z!

Run #5 - Gotta look at teh data log to find otu when but lost teh alternator belt on this run! :(

R/T: .481
60': 1.832
330': 4.954
1/8ET: 7.376
1/8mph: 101.23
1000'ET: 9.472
1/4ET: 11.226 New Best ET for the 2.4L!
1/4mph: 128.90


So, a bittersweet day... bitter cuz it was expensive :( sweet cuz the car keeps going quicker :) If I can get the boost down a bit and get some better traction... Hmmmm....

[cordes]

Very nice JT. Congrats on the new bests.

[black86glhs]

Sounds like a 10.99 is soon to be had. Awesome work!!:thumb:

[DBB mini]

For real congrats!!:thumb:

[black86glhs]

How expensive are we talkin JT???

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks guys :thumb:


How expensive are we talkin JT???

Well, I was going to be needing new slicks soon anyways, but... I'll let you know how expensive after I talk to Bogart ... those wheels are NOT cheap :(

At least the oil pan didnt crack when it touched the track :eek:

[black86glhs]

Thanks guys :thumb:



Well, I was going to be needing new slicks soon anyways, but... I'll let you know how expensive after I talk to Bogart ... those wheels are NOT cheap :(

At least the oil pan didnt crack when it touched the track :eek:
I think I felt a tear go down my cheek.:mecry::faint::censored::censored::censored:

[Turbo3Iroc]

Pics of the wheel?

Congrats on the new bests :clap:

[BadAssPerformance]

Pics of the wheel?

Congrats on the new bests :clap:

I think its fixable... soft alloy can be formed back in? or worst cas these are 3-piece wheels.. the inner bead was unharmed, so a new outer shell might do it?

Notice the gash at 11 o'clock... Got in the junk on the left side of the track (was in the left lane) out of the hole, migh thave hit something?

[2.216VTurbo]

Smokin MPH dude! Was there debris on the track or? How'd the slick get cut? Maybe you should stay with the loaner M&H's, those are your best short times right?

[BadAssPerformance]

Yeah, guessing it got cut on something :(

Best mph with the 23's ... I've cut 1.7x's with the 24.5's... makes me totally re-think moving up to 26's now....

[8valves]

I just think it shows the car likes to sit in the rpms a bit more... no?

[BadAssPerformance]

Yeah, I'm going to compare the data logs of the 11.37 (24.5") and 11.39 (23") to see where the shift points were WRT to gear and boost level.

[Turbo3Iroc]

That looks fixable if it were a normal wheel but those being lightweight already then there might not be enough meat left. Any good wheel shop can bend it back true but they might not fix the curbage. That portion doesn't look so bad though.

That's a big cut! I cut a tire near the traps one time down and even though it was only about 1/2" I had barely enough air in it to get the car on the turn around loop. I'm not sure if that big of a cut could have happened early in the run and the car still make it down the track? That was also one of your best 60's on this setup that I have seen.

[Turbo3Iroc]

Yeah, I'm going to compare the data logs of the 11.37 (24.5") and 11.39 (23") to see where the shift points were WRT to gear and boost level.

Hmmm, who's been preaching 23's to ya? :eyebrows:
Turned very similar numbers with the small tires either way.

[BadAssPerformance]

I had a wierd feeling plowing eth weeds thru 1st, but really didnt notic it until 4th with soem bad shake (1 wheel drive? LOL!) and then shutting it down, I wanted to 2-foot the brake but knew the oil pan had to be close :eek:

LOL, who could that have been? ;)

I think the 23's are a bit fresher than the 24.5's... I have cut low 1.7's on the 24.5's before.

[Reaper1]

Did you have a tube in that tire? I thought it was pretty much required to run tubes for safety. Not to say that would have prevented the issue...

[22shelby]

i saw the actual carnage of the rim in the first person. WOW i showed up to the track just after the run and JT was sitll white as a ghost, well hes about as white as they come but ill tell u he was NEON! anyways i feel honored to see the 11.22, i think at first i was more excited than u J! oh and my car did pull into the driveway under its own power:thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

No tubes... not sure that would help.

[black86glhs]

That buff right out!!!!

[turbo2point2]

Great job JT!! Sorry to hear about the carnage though. Besides the slicks, did you make any changes to the car? A bit more timing perhaps? Keep up the good work:thumb:

[Pat]

130 is smoking. Great job.

Once you get through the data logs to see rpm/boost, make sure you post it up. I'm interested in seeing where you're making your power.

[BadAssPerformance]

Great job JT!! Sorry to hear about the carnage though. Besides the slicks, did you make any changes to the car? A bit more timing perhaps? Keep up the good work:thumb:

Thanks. Actually no changes to the cal since before the Nats. I tried to lower the boost and it was a little lower maybe 33? If I got it down to a consistant 29-30 I would have played with timing.


130 is smoking. Great job.

Once you get through the data logs to see rpm/boost, make sure you post it up. I'm interested in seeing where you're making your power.

I'm guessing the MPH is from being in 4th gear longer on the track... I need to confirm with the log but I think i short shifted each gear on that last run.

[turboshad]

Huge congrats JT!! That's shaving some serious time off so it's gotta be exciting. I wish I had that luck this weekend but no cigar for me. What is your rear suspension setup right now? Also, are you flatshifting/WOT shifting?

DJ

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks, its getting fun, finally doing better than the 2.2L did.

Suspension is KYP struts / Gabrial Air Shocks (not aired up too much) and MP Road Race springs on all 4 corners. ... it needs work, squats hard

[Rampage16V]

That is fantastic !!! Way to go JT!
simply Bad ---!!

[turbovanman²]

Congrats man, great times and you saved the car, :D

[BadAssPerformance]

OK, so the equation I have is:

Net HP = Weight in pounds* (Speed in MPH/228.4)^3

Weight ~ 2750 lb
Speed ~ 130 mph

:D

Anyone have any other equations?

[Skibbe]

I get just north of 500. :clap:

Dyno trip to AMS?

[Rampage16V]

OK try 136 mph and 2245lbs

[Reaper1]

473.9 is what I get Dean.

[turboshad]

2245lbs

I hate you. :mad:

[Rampage16V]

Yeah my car has stayed around the same mph with the et dropping and I know it makes more power now . The frontal area is where I think I need to work on Ken (5digits) and I were talking about it at sdac this year.

[Aries_Turbo]

yeah you have an awful lot of bumps and voids and area for air to force under the front end. smooth some of that out and some nice gains should be realized.

brian

[BadAssPerformance]

The only thing my pig of a Z has going for it.. some slippery aerodynamics :D

[mario03SRT]

OK, so the equation I have is:

Net HP = Weight in pounds* (Speed in MPH/228.4)^3

Weight ~ 2750 lb
Speed ~ 130 mph

:D

Anyone have any other equations?

I get 483 HP based on a 15% Drivetrain loss.

Did you get your Intake Temps down to pick all that power?

[BadAssPerformance]

I get 483 HP based on a 15% Drivetrain loss.

Did you get your Intake Temps down to pick all that power?

From my experience the equation is "whp" so the 15% would add to it? Unless you have a differenrt equation?

Intake temps and boost are down... still need to review the data logs, but I think the second to last run was under 30psi

[BadAssPerformance]

Video thanks to 22Shelby (Jaren) :thumb:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPByTGUbVxY

[mario03SRT]

From my experience the equation is "whp" so the 15% would add to it? Unless you have a differenrt equation?

Intake temps and boost are down... still need to review the data logs, but I think the second to last run was under 30psi

JT

Thats RWHP. And it takes into consideration a loss of 15% for drivetrain loss. I don't know if that loss figure is correct or not. I used it as a general rule of thumb I'm sure someone here knows exactly.

I use a HP calc at a Speed Shop here in town called Modular Depot. In their Resources section they have some calculators. http://www.modulardepot.com/?show=hpc

Also neons.org (Hi!) has a calculator also.

FYI,
Marion

[mario03SRT]

Video thanks to 22Shelby (Jaren) :thumb:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPByTGUbVxY

"Thats a Fast Car Man!"

[2.216VTurbo]

"Thats a Fast Car Man!"

Actually I thinmk the announcer said "That's a fast little car man";)

Nice run JT, I wish we had a track in the middle of some farmland out here:)

[22shelby]

im kicking myself in a-- for recording over the BA run that last pass. like the Big Shwag says "that thing was on a pass". in the vid. someone had said " what the hell is that thing" my reply was "just watch my friend". just as i say that JT crackes off a "pop" like a shotgun at that 1st-2nd gear shift and rips down a 11.22 pass.

and if im not mistakin u ran a 91 nissan sentra sr20 w/ a 30r, tial wg on a set of slicks? cliped his nuts clean off. that was the same nissan that ran me down putin down a 12.58.

[22shelby]

Actually I thinmk the announcer said "That's a fast little car man";)

Nice run JT, I wish we had a track in the middle of some farmland out here:)

ahh its not that easy, that track is a bit of a haul to get too. bout an hour and fifteen to,w/ traffic, hour and a half. but a good track indeed. they just resurfaced the track, bout as smooth as glass. still a mystery on how the slick blew tho:confused:

[BadAssPerformance]

Pics...

bent bogart... popped M&H ... new M&H's ... fixed Bogart ... mounted up!

[DBB mini]

Nice.:thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

Oh yeah, forgot this one.. cannot go smaller than 15" rims on the Z.. yes, the oil pan did touch the ground while braking from 125mph :(

[cordes]

That rim looks nice after they fixed it. Did you send it back to Bogart or somewhere else?

[BadAssPerformance]

Sent to Bogart... they said they could straighten it, but for an extra day and some more money, I decided it was best to put a whole new outer on.

And now I have an aluminum aerobee frisbee!

[black86glhs]

Are the slicks in the pic the new ones?

[BadAssPerformance]

Are the slicks in the pic the new ones?

The ones with the new stickers on them? Yes ;)

[black86glhs]

The ones with the new stickers on them? Yes ;)

No I meant the one with the holes in the side of it.....duh!!


:lol::lol:


Cool back in business for next season.:thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

Cool back in business for next season.:thumb:

Next season? F that, we're going tomorrow! :thumb:

[cordes]

It's cool that they just cut off the old lip and put the new one on.

Good luck tomorrow.

[black86glhs]

Next season? F that, we're going tomorrow! :thumb:

Sweet!!!!
Just try to keep the oil pan of the blacktop.:D

[BadAssPerformance]

It's cool that they just cut off the old lip and put the new one on.

Good luck tomorrow.

Yeah, very cool. They plasma off the ring then mill the rest off.. the 2 pieces are glued together where they meet so milling is quicker than trying to cut the glue. Im, just thrilled they could fix it and turn it around quick.

Thanks!


Sweet!!!!
Just try to keep the oil pan of the blacktop.:D

DEFINITELY!

[ohiorob]

nice times JT. It's a good day at the track when you and the car head back home in one piece. I've seen cars roll over when a slick blows out.

you guys got to start posting your times in the Events,racing & results.

good luck tomorrow.

[Rampage16V]

So how'd you do? The air is good wish it would stop raining. Want to get out one more time.

[TurboRon25]

So how'd you do? The air is good wish it would stop raining. Want to get out one more time.

Well... he didn't beat your time.

Ron

[Skibbe]

Well... he didn't beat your time.

Ron

That's mean Ron... http://www.3rdgen.org/bb/images/smilies/----blocked.gif

[BadAssPerformance]

Well... it ran a bit better :)

Figured out how to adjust the boost controller - thanks for the link Skibbe! :thumb:

Got the new Slicks mounted up - thanks again VntEs! :thumb:

Run #1 - Right off the trailer, fresh 24.5x8.5" M&H's still had the nipples and chalk on them... ~20-22psi missed 3rd gear

R/T: .375
60': 1.697 (best 60' at this point! guess fresh tires were overdue?)
330': 4.831
1/8ET: 7.613
1/8mph: 91.15
1000'ET: 9.882
1/4ET: 11.778
1/4mph: 119.47

Run #2 - Upped the boost to ~25psi

R/T: .242
60': 1.679 (Best 60' ever for the Z)
330': 4.701
1/8ET: 7.178
1/8mph: 101.44 (New Best 1/8 mph at this point!)
1000'ET: 9.278
1/4ET: 11.057 (New Best ET at this point!)
1/4mph: 127.26

Run #3 - Upped the boost to ~29psi

R/T: -.024
60': 1.697
330': 4.740
1/8ET: 7.161
1/8mph: 103.93 (New Best 1/8 mph at this point!)
1000'ET: 9.223
1/4ET: 10.962 (New Best ET at this point!)
1/4mph: 130.32

Run #4 - Same everything as run #3

R/T: .307
60': 1.693
330': 4.668
1/8ET: 7.054
1/8mph: 104/80 (New Best 1/8 mph for the Z!)
1000'ET: 9.109
1/4ET: 10.844
1/4mph: 130.47 (Tied previous Best mph for the Z!)

BoooYaaa! 10's in a street car, full exhaust, most of an interior, even power windows, LOL! :D

[rx2mazda]

:hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::h ail::hail:

awesome JT!

[blk86trbo]

That's insanely fast for a car that isn't totally stripped...great job JT! :clap:

[Mario]

Wow. Great work man. Nice to see a payoff like that.

[DaveSkrab]

SEXCELLENT!!!!:D Congrats!!

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks guys!

Now the decisions...

1 Get rid of the little turbo and try to go faster as it sits?
2 Work on the suspension?
3 Race lighten it and make it a race car?
4 All of the above?

[rx2mazda]

#1 all day

[BadAssPerformance]

I've been leaning towards #1 for a while.. wanted a 10 with the smaller comp housing tho.. so now? the GT35R on the shelf? bigger?

[GLHS592]

I'd go with #4.

[Reaper1]

I vote #2.

Why? Make the combo you have work the best that it can before making more power. I don't want to see it go full race car, just because it's too cool that it's still a "street car"! Yes, it most definitely WILL go faster if you go full race, but then it's just a race car! :(

[TurboRon25]

No to #3 & #4.

Ron

[Turbo3Iroc]

See what a good 60 does for ya! :partywoot:

I like option #1 and 2

What turbo is on the car right now?

[turboshad]

:clap: with a whole bunch of :hail:

That's fricktastacticle !!!!!

Holy crap JT, and here you thought blowing out a rim and tire was a bad thing. Sometimes it's funny how mishaps can really turn around to lead you to do something you may not of for a bit more like get some new rubber.

For the future I would go for #1 over the winter since it is the bigger down timer. You can always do suspension things throughout the season. I am definately on the street car daily summer driver band wagon.


Here's another big :thumb: followed up by an endless :clap:

[dodgeshadowchik]

:D This is great news! Congrats!! I vote #1 and #2. Suspension is always good, and I'm a big fan stupid fast street cars.

[22shelby]

street car:eyebrows: big turbo! and one of those thingys that make it go "pop POPPOP pop BANG!!:bolt:"
my ears are still ringing from the puerto rican poppers

anyways fun day guys, ill get the vid up soon.

[ohiorob]

It's about time :thumb: your car is only 100lbs more then my charger. go #1 2 3 and half of 4

[contraption22]

Awesome, JT. Simply awesome!

[turbo2point2]

Great job JT!! Car is smoking:thumb::D

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks everyone! :o


What turbo is on the car right now?

Same 60-1 HiFi / Stage 3 that was on the 2.2L and on the 2.4L since it was put together... small B cover and all :thumb:


Holy crap JT, and here you thought blowing out a rim and tire was a bad thing. Sometimes it's funny how mishaps can really turn around to lead you to do something you may not of for a bit more like get some new rubber.

Yeah, expensive way to learn I needed them a while ago! LOL!


anyways fun day guys, ill get the vid up soon.

Sweet! I need to get the raw footage of that run too :thumb:


It's about time :thumb: your car is only 100lbs more then my charger. go #1 2 3 and half of 4

Wow, only 100lbs? Mine is 2750lbs with me in it... I woulda guessed you were lighter?

So if you're going race car, I might have to keep mine a street car ;)

[22shelby]

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42909


linky to the vid thread

[turbovanman²]

Awesome JT, :hail::hail::hail::hail::hail:

Glad you went faster than your 8 valve, that would have been embarrassing, hahhhahha, :thumb:

I vote 1 and 2, :D




OK, so the equation I have is:

Net HP = Weight in pounds* (Speed in MPH/228.4)^3

Weight ~ 2750 lb
Speed ~ 130 mph

:D

Anyone have any other equations?


OK try 136 mph and 2245lbs




I hate you guys, :mad: :censored:

[cordes]

I would not lighten the car and take away from it's current comforts. The interior etc. is my favorite part of your car. I would throw the bigger turbo on there and head out to palooza with it. :thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

I'm leaning towards street car still... Any of thr options listed would be over the winter... with only a month or so of racing left anything this year will be fine-tuning what's there :thumb:

[Mario]

I vote going 2 then 1. I'm on the fence on 3. In my eyes a F1 car is a street car.

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL, yeah, even if it were an all out race car, I'd still drive it on the street... :D

[ohiorob]

yup my car weighs in at 2650 with me in it and the only thing thats stopping it from being a street car is the block is 85% filled. after 12 years of beating on it it just doesn't matter if i ever drive it on the street again. but if I ever get the urge to put it back on the street it wouldn't take much to do so.

anyway welcome to the 10's ...man it's getting crowded over here :nod:

[black86glhs]

GT35R FTW.:thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

yup my car weighs in at 2650 with me in it and the only thing thats stopping it from being a street car is the block is 85% filled. after 12 years of beating on it it just doesn't matter if i ever drive it on the street again. but if I ever get the urge to put it back on the street it wouldn't take much to do so.

anyway welcome to the 10's ...man it's getting crowded over here :nod:

Dude, you dont weigh that much, whys the car so heavy?!

Thanks, cool to be in, hope more make it! :)

[BadAssPerformance]

GT35R FTW.:thumb:

Maybe... just to prove to all the map-readers that it will work.

but... I'm thinking bigger :D

[DB-Rocket]

Keep it a street car.
It dont mean anything unless you can still say "anytime, anywhere"

[Aries_Turbo]

is the HE351 bigger than what you have? id put that on there if it is.

I vote drive it around and do heaters and race ricers and all kinds of fun immature stuff. :)

actually id just drive it around and think to myself.... "im driving a 10 sec street car" and giggle lol.

Brian

[csxtra]

I vote drive it around and do heaters and race ricers and all kinds of fun immature stuff. :)


Heaters??:confused: Is that anything like a scratch-out?

Congrats on the new PB JT!:thumb: After all the work you put into the car, it was only a matter of time.:clap:

[black86glhs]

actually id just drive it around and think to myself.... "im driving a 10 sec street car" and giggle lol.

Brianand that is before the drinking begins.:D

[turbovanman²]

Maybe... just to prove to all the map-readers that it will work.

but... I'm thinking bigger :D

They work, I love it, :love:

Next year, I'll max it out, :nod:


is the HE351 bigger than what you have? id put that on there if it is.

I vote drive it around and do heaters and race ricers and all kinds of fun immature stuff. :)

actually id just drive it around and think to myself.... "im driving a 10 sec street car" and giggle lol.

Brian

An HE351 is bigger than his 60-1 or so it seems on paper. :eyebrows:

[dodgeshadowchik]

Gt35r!!! Do ittt! :)

[BadAssPerformance]

Really, its not that much bigger ...

[Rampage16V]

That's great JT . Congrats!!!

[turbovanman²]

Really, its not that much bigger ...

What isn't, GT35R or HE351?

[Rampage16V]

I've been leaning towards #1 for a while.. wanted a 10 with the smaller comp housing tho.. so now? the GT35R on the shelf? bigger?

I like all the options your car is clean and alot of fun. Definately bigger then the gt35r

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks Dean :thumb:

Simon, I meant the GHT35R is not too much bigger (comp wheel wise) than the 60-1...

[BadAssPerformance]

Yo DJ, you wanted to see my timing table? A tad conservative? :o

On the 2 10's @ ~29psi it was on the top line, running ~ 10.5°

[black86glhs]

I said the GT35R because you already have it. It would be an interesting comparison. The 60-1 to the GT35R then to the HE351.

[BadAssPerformance]

If I fab up another header and downpipe... I'm not going up a little... :D

[BadAssPerformance]

A few data plots from the last 2 trips out...

11.37 - 30+psi - old 24.5" slicks.. limiter thru 1st.. went flat in 4th, you can see the shake

11.22 - 30+psi - 23" slicks - notice how much sooner the shifts are

11.05 - 26psi - new 24.5" slicks - getting used to traction, graaaaanny shifting to make sure I hit them unlike the run before this one midssing 3rd

10.96 - 29psi - still easy on the 2-3 shift, but hit the 3-4 well

10.84 - 29psi - holding boost between gears is fun :)

[Skibbe]

I vote suspension and 'glas front clip/diet...

http://www.hairyglass.com/images/254%201.jpg

Oh wait, is that the full-race path that got voted down? :eyebrows:

[BadAssPerformance]

I bet we could mount headlight motors into that :D

[turboshad]

Yo DJ, you wanted to see my timing table? A tad conservative? :o

On the 2 10's @ ~29psi it was on the top line, running ~ 10.5°

Wow, you weren't kidding. That really is low. That is for 110 and 8.5:1 CR right? That's the first map I've seen where the timing decreases as the RPM increases. I bet you could find a bunch more power there and still be very safe. I can only imagine how high your EGTs are knowing where mine like to go :eyebrows:

The knock sensor/headphone thing I made for my car was key to me tuning my map and knowing for sure that it was safe. I think you would be pleasently suprised with the power just waiting for you. :thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

Timing decreases more with boost than rpm...

Yeah, 110 and ~8.5:1... I know its low.. but safe, and no knock sensor.

Now that I have the boost under control, next trip out I'll adjust the top of the table up to 12° ... the 10° was a safetynety incase it ran over 30psi which it did, LOL!

[Rampage16V]

at 30 psi I am running about 24 degrees c116

[blk86trbo]

at 30 psi I am running about 24 degrees c116

Sounds promising JT!

[Rampage16V]

Timing decreases more with boost than rpm...

Yeah, 110 and ~8.5:1... I know its low.. but safe, and no knock sensor.

Now that I have the boost under control, next trip out I'll adjust the top of the table up to 12° ... the 10° was a safetynety incase it ran over 30psi which it did, LOL!

That is so true after sdac 18 in detroit I bumped mine up to 24 from 18 went from 11.03@128 to 10.50@133 next time out

[turbovanman²]

This spark timing talk is awesome, :thumb:

[Pat]

I've been out of town for a few days and just read this...that is freaking awesome.

And for the record, I vote all of the above!

[ohiorob]

the amout of power you get from adding a few more degrees is amazing.
I see a 10.50 or better in your near future, on a good track that is.
the next sdac is going to be incredible. they better get a darn good track this time.

[Skibbe]

Man, I change my vote to BUMP THE TIMING!

[BadAssPerformance]

Yeah, timing will definitely be the first step...

[Aries_Turbo]

This spark timing talk is awesome, :thumb:

dont get any bad ideas. you still have too much timing. :)

Brian

[black86glhs]

dont get any bad ideas. you still have too much timing. :)

BrianYeah, remember.....this is the "BadAssPerformance" thread, not the "What Simon needs to do to break more of his crap" thread. :amen:

Oh yeah, no I don't want any pizza.:p

[Austrian Dodge]

dude, get out with some headphones and dial in your timing ;) there's TONs of potential in the map.

[black86glhs]

dude, get out with some headphones and dial in your timing ;) there's TONs of potential in the map.Every time I do this the music is too loud to hear the pinging.:(

[Captain Chaos]

JT

Thats RWHP. And it takes into consideration a loss of 15% for drivetrain loss. I don't know if that loss figure is correct or not. I used it as a general rule of thumb I'm sure someone here knows exactly.

I use a HP calc at a Speed Shop here in town called Modular Depot. In their Resources section they have some calculators. http://www.modulardepot.com/?show=hpc

Also neons.org (Hi!) has a calculator also.

FYI,
Marion

http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculators.htm

Some good calculators here if anyones interested.

[Shadow]

Damn, I'm missing everything this year! Congrates man! That some awesome 60's and consistant to boot! What preasure were you running in the slicks? :thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks Rob!

The 60' look better when shifting 2nd after the 60' light, LOL!

10.5psi ... cold day so higher after the burnout/run... 24.5x8.5 M&Hs

I think higher pressure helps this car as it is so front heavy?

[22shelby]

taking notes, taking notes

[Shadow]

So when did you switch to the 120lb inj's? I read back quite a few pages and didn't find where you had them installed and how well they worked.

[BadAssPerformance]

Running 30psi at 7k rpm thru 72pph's at SDAC... my data log said ~129% DC :eek: Ordered the 120's when I got home, they have been in ever since, LOL! :thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

Good day at the track today... tried a new rear stiffening mod… didn’t seem to help the 60’ but we’ll see how the runs looks side by side… Thanks to Skibbe for filming!

Run #1 - Right off the trailer, maybe the first pass down the track, spun all over the place and short-shifted then bogged 2nd… Also first trial with ‘stiffy’ rear suspension mod Rev 001 ~ 29psi

R/T: .246
60': 1.858
330': 5.507
1/8ET: 8.136
1/8mph: 97.68
1000'ET: 10.262
1/4ET: 12.047
1/4mph: 127.31

Run #2 - ~29psi

R/T: .266
60': 1.716
330': 4.714
1/8ET: 7.158
1/8mph: 14.05 (Lowest 1/8 MPH EVER!)
1000'ET: 9.221
1/4ET: 10.960
1/4mph: 130.37

Run #3 - ~29psi – upped the 30psi timing to 12° from 10° … no difference

R/T: .048
60': 1.710
330': 4.713
1/8ET: 7.097
1/8mph: 104.76
1000'ET: 9.158
1/4ET: 10.892
1/4mph: 130.68 (new best mph at this point... getting consistent)

Run #4 - ~29psi – tried to launch off 5k rpm 2-step… need some practice with this

R/T: .347
60': 2.886 (ouch)
330': 6.165
1/8ET: 8.592
1/8mph: 103.44
1000'ET: 10.658
1/4ET: 12.399
1/4mph: 130.30

Run #5 - ~29psi – this was a fun run, had a fast RWD car in the other lane… he went 11.07 @ 124, I needed another football field to drive around him! oh, and the boost was only 24psi in 1 and 2, not sure why? :D

R/T: .147
60': 1.786
330': ---
1/8ET: 7.514
1/8mph: 102.75
1000'ET: 9.591
1/4ET: 11.336
1/4mph: 130.69 (New best MPH!)

Run #6 - ~29psi cheezed 2nd

R/T: .555
60': 1.768
330': 5.183
1/8ET: 7.680
1/8mph: 101.62
1000'ET: 9.768
1/4ET: 11.527
1/4mph: 128.97

Run #7 - ~29psi Rear suspension reverted back to how it was at Import Wars.. Pretty sure this is the 70th run on the 2.4L… in only 242 miles

R/T: .625
60': 1.731
330': 4.732
1/8ET: 7.125
1/8mph: 104.60
1000'ET: 9.187
1/4ET: 10.927
1/4mph: 130.03

Next steps… centerline cams, figure out how to safely up the timing… little tweaks for now. Maybe make it back next Saturday? Or Turbopalooza!

[DaveSkrab]

Awesome JT! Keep up the good work!

[22shelby]

NICE few more 10 under the belt! im bummed i didnt go, that dam fpr oring finally went on me and now im fight'n it again. i think ima get myself a billit and run remote mouint reg this time.

[Ondonti]

Do you have any base timing or is 10 and 12 degrees total timing? What fuel?
If you get to the point where you see no gains I would knock the timing back. I don't see how you could be at that point with 12 degrees though :confused2:

I know I did screw up my spark maps, race a bike and couldn't do anything but run even. Found out i was missing 10 degrees of timing, car seemed to gain 100hp.
But then in the old days i remember adding 4 degrees on the dyno, probably losing hp overall but a darn peak in the graph tricked me into just reading the number and not lookign at the graph.

I would say it sucks that your 1/8th mph didnt show up on the first 12 deg run.

21-24 degrees on a 4 valve head with 8ish compression and 30psi on C16 or E85 is where all the quickest 3000gt's are running their timing Thats above 5000 rpms and they often add a few degrees near 7000.
I think those are perfect cars to follow after with your setup depending on the fuel you are running.

For now I went with 26 degrees @ 32psi load level (320kpa at my elevation) since I have a slower burning 2 valve head on E70 fuel. Maybe a bit too aggressive with the E70. Heck, I ran 46 degrees @ 20psi on my built motor on the dyno......eeek. Of course I gained no hp and probably helped accelerate headgasket poppage.

Ahhhhhhhhhh why post your darn spark map and then not make it clear that is your total timing :(

[BadAssPerformance]

12° total... 110 octane

No knock sensor, kinda shy with adding timing :o

[Ondonti]

Dang. I think you should get that thing on the dyno and dial in the timing.
I had no knock sensor and I went with "bonehead" instead of shy. I still never broke my built motor, just plugs!.

Now that I have control, I feel more of your antisocial tuning disorder. When I was scaling my timing map I thought....wow, i can actually remove timing as boost gets higher and not lose off boost performance.............what a concept!

I don't think your driving is consistent enough to make good guesses on timing. Ive got a mitsu knock sensor and want to use it but I am sorta complacent thinking "its still quick without optimized timing"

I would prefer dialing in timing in each location until HP gains stop or hp drops, then reel back timing a degree or 3. As long as you have sufficent octane, HP gains will "stop" long before knock starts in a good turbo setup. This is a reason why your next shortblock should be 10 or 11:1 :thumb: Pick up 50-100whp and bigtime spool without changing anything else. Or make a bigger turbo act like your 60-1.

8.5:1 deserves 50psi boost plus spray or its a waste :evil:
You can also try 100% meth injection on top of your favorite race fuel. :evil: Even 8 second cars are doing it.
My reason for using 100% meth is not octane, but the fact that methanol makes more hp/cfm of air. About 20% more. So any gasoline I displace with meth gains 20% of the proportion of meth to gasoline. I was running more methanol then I was gasoline as far as liquid goes! but it was only about 30% of my total fueling requirements. I think it helped allow some of my rubbish ridiculous timing idiocies since there was probably NO heat left in the intake charge.
Its pretty much a way of running methanol without having to drain and flush your fuel system everytime you drive it.

[Aries_Turbo]

id hook the knock sensor up to a small headphone amp and listen to the signal once you get to the optimization point.

Brian

[BadAssPerformance]

Dang. I think you should get that thing on the dyno and dial in the timing.

I don't think your driving is consistent enough to make good guesses on timing.

I'm not a dyno fan, more of a track tuning kinda guy...

130mph on almost every run is not consistent enough?

Interesting info on the meth. Its still a street car tho, so still like to keep it simple.

[BadAssPerformance]

id hook the knock sensor up to a small headphone amp and listen to the signal once you get to the optimization point.

Brian

Interesting... how?

[turboshad]

Interesting... how?

Are you F'in kidding me JT?



The knock sensor/headphone thing I made for my car was key to me tuning my map and knowing for sure that it was safe. I think you would be pleasently suprised with the power just waiting for you. :thumb:

Halfway down this post. It is my best tuning mod short of the WB.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=521051&postcount=50

[BadAssPerformance]

I thought I had seen that somewhere! We gotta make that a KC article! :thumb: :)

[Aries_Turbo]

here is a good way too. brent just posted it in his thread though ive seen it in the past.

http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0353

Brian

[Skibbe]

8.5:1 deserves 50psi boost plus spray or its a waste :evil:


Damn, I wonder what you'd suggest for my ~7.5:1? 100psi plus a couple blocks of C4?

[BadAssPerformance]

Damn, I wonder what you'd suggest for my ~7.5:1? 100psi plus a couple blocks of C4?

Glad I wasnt drinking when I read this... I'd need a new monitor

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks to Skibbe for filming! :thumb:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzzR65XWBP0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw-rIIBaMbM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NaGfFRjGo4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch_jjtcS1QY

[thefitisgay]

i thought that daytonas didnt make it to the 10s...

:lol:

[BadAssPerformance]

i thought that daytonas didnt make it to the 10s...

:lol:

LOL, only 2 so far... and it takes a bit more work with a big heavy car!

[Ondonti]

I'm not a dyno fan, more of a track tuning kinda guy...

130mph on almost every run is not consistent enough?

Interesting info on the meth. Its still a street car tho, so still like to keep it simple.

Its not about hp.

Find an eddy current dyno that will hold rpm steady, then you adjust timing and watch torque readouts change (increase or decrease). This is pretty much infinite load so its gonna be darn safe. When you see torque gains nose over or decrease, you know you have hit the limit and should dial things back.

With a good dyno that can constantly hold at a certain rpm without adjustments (some old ones will not be able to hold the same rpm when you add timing because torque will go up) you could completely tune your spark table in about 10 minutes. hard on the engine, yes. Probably easier then some people who make 150+ pulls in a night of tuning on a crappy accellerameter dyno.

Then at the track you could make decisions where to add timing based on listening devices etc. Load at the track will probably be less because you will never be stuck at a certain rpm. I don't know if we locally have any good eddy current dyno's that actually work properly :( Too many people just want #'s on a piece of paper.
You are at the power level where 0.1-0.5 degrees of timing can make 20+whp.

[BadAssPerformance]

You are at the power level where 0.1-0.5 degrees of timing can make 20+whp.

I just added 2 degrees and it didnt help at all... Maybe I'm out of turbo

[Austrian Dodge]

+1
you want to hit MBT (minimum best torque).
if knock occurs while torque still increases (so before MBT is reached) back off timing 2-3 degrees to be safe and move on to the next load point.

you'll likely not reach MBT at all load points so better get some headphones out to play it safe.

as odonti said, you should be able to have a complete timing map pretty fast!


Its not about hp.

Find an eddy current dyno that will hold rpm steady, then you adjust timing and watch torque readouts change (increase or decrease). This is pretty much infinite load so its gonna be darn safe. When you see torque gains nose over or decrease, you know you have hit the limit and should dial things back.

With a good dyno that can constantly hold at a certain rpm without adjustments (some old ones will not be able to hold the same rpm when you add timing because torque will go up) you could completely tune your spark table in about 10 minutes. hard on the engine, yes. Probably easier then some people who make 150+ pulls in a night of tuning on a crappy accellerameter dyno.

Then at the track you could make decisions where to add timing based on listening devices etc. Load at the track will probably be less because you will never be stuck at a certain rpm. I don't know if we locally have any good eddy current dyno's that actually work properly :( Too many people just want #'s on a piece of paper.
You are at the power level where 0.1-0.5 degrees of timing can make 20+whp.

[Ondonti]

I just added 2 degrees and it didnt help at all... Maybe I'm out of turbo

Well lets get some headphones and see if that timing is warranted :thumb:
I am on track for doing the same thing. :bump2:

One thing about good flowing turbine setups etc, is that they require less timing for MBT (minimum best torque seems to be the proper way to refer to what I was getting at).

Maybe your turbo isnt as dead as you think it is. But people saying the holsets they are talking about are better then the 60-1, I disagree wholeheartedly. Ive seen them run 10's even at high altitude without the boost turned up all the way. I think your turbo has mid/low 10's in your weight car.

Holsets now are a whole heap of trouble IMO, I was looking up counterfeits today and they even make fakes of the crappy holsets. This has actually been happening for years and there is info on holsets website about it and detecting fakes or those who are selling fakes.

[22shelby]

i say JT just giv'er.:thumb:

ur obviously doin somthin right,:hail:

[TurboII]

dammnn that some nice run!

[Gaboon]

Damn JT, you've got that thing singin'


Nice passes.

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks guys :thumb:

need to research timing a little more before I play with that...

[BadAssPerformance]

So, I centerlined the cams today... found exhaust was -6° and intake was -2° :eek: and my crank reference was 4° off too, so.... instead of 12° ignition timing... it was at 8° :eek:...

[mario03SRT]

JT,

The car is coming out of the hole and thru the gears much better than before! It is getting "up on it's toes" as the front looks like it is unloading, but much better. :thumb:

Marion

[Skibbe]

So, I centerlined the cams today... found exhaust was -6° and intake was -2° :eek: and my crank reference was 4° off too, so.... instead of 12° ignition timing... it was at 8° :eek:...

Doh! :faint:

[ohiorob]

So, I centerlined the cams today... found exhaust was -6° and intake was -2° :eek: and my crank reference was 4° off too, so.... instead of 12° ignition timing... it was at 8° :eek:...

just eyeballing everything on my motors I notice things were off too. so how did you centerline it all. the crank was easy to reference but the cams I'm not to sure about getting them right.

[turboshad]

So, I centerlined the cams today... found exhaust was -6° and intake was -2° :eek: and my crank reference was 4° off too, so.... instead of 12° ignition timing... it was at 8° :eek:...

LOL............just when I thought your ignition map couldn't be any lower. :wow1:

Glad you found it. Maybe you aren't noticing anything happen from adding advance since at your current levels the mixture isn't actually combusting until the next power stroke. :thumb:

[rx2mazda]

\Maybe you aren't noticing anything happen from adding advance since at your current levels the mixture isn't actually combusting until the next power stroke. :thumb:

lol....just what i was thinking:nod:

[BadAssPerformance]

just eyeballing everything on my motors I notice things were off too. so how did you centerline it all. the crank was easy to reference but the cams I'm not to sure about getting them right.

DCS cam alignment tool :D


LOL............just when I thought your ignition map couldn't be any lower. :wow1:

Glad you found it. Maybe you aren't noticing anything happen from adding advance since at your current levels the mixture isn't actually combusting until the next power stroke. :thumb:

Yeah, I was kinda shocked at that but it appears the crank reference (trigger wheel) moved so wonder if that made it quicker? LOL!

[ohiorob]

do you have pics of the DCS in action and would you rent it out :D

[BadAssPerformance]

I got pics for a KC article. IIR there is a thread on SRT forums too? I borrowed it so cant rent...

[mario03SRT]

I got pics for a KC article. IIR there is a thread on SRT forums too? I borrowed it so cant rent...

There is a Mopar Head here in town that has one of the DCR Cam alignment tools that I'm sure he would lend out locally if anyone needed it this weekend.

Marion

[BadAssPerformance]

Cool! It was helpful and easy to use, hope i dont need it again soon tho!

Rob, you gonna make it down?

[BadAssPerformance]

First time out with centerlined cams... and corrected 12° ignition timing (from 8°) at Tri-State in Cinci for OVC Turbopalooza

Run #1 - Right off the trailer, spun violently in 1 and then 2 then let out, then from a roll blew third loose to redline. My driveway hooks better. :(

R/T: .985
60': 2.185
330': 6.108
1/8ET: 9.385
1/8mph: 69.64
1000'ET: 12.810
1/4ET: 16.365
1/4mph: 58.77

Run #2 - Tommy took the water scooper and threw down some extra water and got a good burnout this time! STILL Spun hard thru 2nd and into 3rd... didnt make 29psi till it hooked in 3rd

R/T: .243
60': 1.948
330': 5.251
1/8ET: 7.702
1/8mph: 103.01
1000'ET: 9.758
1/4ET: 11.496
1/4mph: 130.07

Run #3 - Tried the left lane per R/T's suggestion, seemed similar... Spun thru 2nd, missed 3rd as its hard to shift while the ties are spinning.. let out to keep engine ccol.

R/T: .095
60': 1.811
330': 4.937
1/8ET: 8.105
1/8mph: 69.17
1000'ET: 11.589
1/4ET: 15.142
1/4mph: 58.97

Run #4 - Spun thru 2nd again, but stuck 3rd... with traction this would have been a ~10.90

R/T: .178
60': 1.775
330': 4.928
1/8ET: 7.363
1/8mph: 103.80
1000'ET: 9.426
1/4ET: 11.159
1/4mph: 130.43

[Reaper1]

Well...that didn't tell you squat! :( Sorry for the bad day, but it was probably better than working!? LOL

[22shelby]

sounds like it was more like turbos on ice!

[Reeves]

There is a Mopar Head here in town that has one of the DCR Cam alignment tools that I'm sure he would lend out locally if anyone needed it this weekend.

Marion

Update....he sold it :(


I got pics for a KC article. IIR there is a thread on SRT forums too? I borrowed it so cant rent...

Crap...
Did you at least get all the dimensions off of it and some pictures? :eyebrows:

[BadAssPerformance]

Crap...
Did you at least get all the dimensions off of it and some pictures? :eyebrows:

KC article will be made ;)

[t3rse]

It is just a piece that has two dowels that go into the holes in the cams...just measure cam-cam centerline distance and you have it...guys have been making them from scrap metal for years.

[Reeves]

KC article will be made ;)

:clap::hail:

[BadAssPerformance]

Nice 50 degree day today, last time to the Grove for the season.

Run #1 - Right off the trailer, spun violently in 1 and then 2 then let out

R/T: .243
60': 2.144
330': 5.646
1/8ET: 8.476
1/8mph: 85.02
1000'ET: 11.063
1/4ET: 13.599
1/4mph: 83.82

Run #2 - Better burnout and better launch but the car was breaking up in 2 and 3, cleaned out in 4th... guess I got too much fuel slosh in the cell, it wasnt that low!

R/T: .558
60': 1.877
330': 5.150
1/8ET: 7.845
1/8mph: 88.73
1000'ET: 10.426
1/4ET: 12.492
1/4mph: 112.95

Run #3 - still spinning out of the hole, but the added fuel helped the braking up and got a clean run

R/T: .360
60': 1.890
330': 4.930
1/8ET: 7.266
1/8mph: 106.91 New Best!
1000'ET: 9.282
1/4ET: 10.966
1/4mph: 134.75 New Best!

Run #4 - Cams adjusted to +2/-2... Spun out of the hole, missed 4th

R/T: .279
60': 1.875
330': 4.938
1/8ET: 7.321
1/8mph: 100.60
1000'ET: 9.706
1/4ET: 12.064
1/4mph: 90.90

Run #5 - Cams back to straight up... Best 60' of the day, car started breaking up... lost the alternator belt which took out the timing belt, damage report to come :(

R/T: .216
60': 1.802
330': .000
1/8ET: 7.428
1/8mph: 99.35
1000'ET: 9.884
1/4ET: 12.497
1/4mph: 77.59

I hope its not broken too bad! All in all a great season!

[cordes]

Congrats on the new PBs JT. I hope the damage is minimal.