BadAss SRT-Z - 2.4L / A568 - Update!!!

[moparjon2007]

Hells yeah. Take the Shadow to the RSDs with the "Boom" nitrous kit... I'll bring the CSX and we can leave the motors there

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL... No RSD this week, too much stuff to do before the gathering this weekend.

As for the next trans... I have a couple A568's, anyone got some good selection criteria?

No, I do not want to take them all apart, so it will be from the outside. When I select one, yes it will come apart. They all were runners when pulled, none of them have particularly low miles, think one from Jackson has really high miles but he said it was one of the nicest shifting he's driven... Thinking about looking at:

-Input shaft spline wear
-Input shaft end play
-rotational torue
-rotate in each gear, listen for noise

[Reeves]

I'd take them both apart and use the best pieces of each.

[16valvecharger]

just put in a automatic and go really fast :nod:

[Pat]

just put in a automatic and go really fast :nod:

Or accept that calling it an unlightened street car with busted transmission is less fun than lightening it, going faster and calling it a race car that works. :-)

[Shadow]

Or accept that calling it an unlightened street car with busted transmission is less fun than lightening it, going faster and calling it a race car that works. :-)

Oh no you di'en't! :evil:

[Pat]

Oh no you di'en't! :evil:

Couldn't resist! LOL!

[BadAssPerformance]

I'd take them both apart and use the best pieces of each.

Thought about that...


just put in a automatic and go really fast :nod:

I'm sure it would go faster, but I like rowing... would be bored driving an auto unless it was Slowe-Fast™ (yes, just TM'ed that :) )


Or accept that calling it an unlightened street car with busted transmission is less fun than lightening it, going faster and calling it a race car that works. :-)

Ouch! LOL... Yeah, this coming from the guy that called me out before SDAC-22 like he was gonna dish it out and even tho my heavy street car only made one pass, it was still quicker than his race car ;)

[Pat]

Ouch! LOL... Yeah, this coming from the guy that called me out before SDAC-22 like he was gonna dish it out and even tho my heavy street car only made one pass, it was still quicker than his race car ;)

Ha ha...I admit, you were screaming your first pass but I was definitely quicker on the 2nd pass!

[BadAssPerformance]

Ha ha...I admit, you were screaming your first pass but I was definitely quicker on the 2nd pass!

LOL, yeah, if we raced heads up, you MAY have one unless some bits from my drivetrain hit you or your car

[Pat]

Joking aside, did you tear apart the most recent trans failure? Any idea on what gave out? At the rate your popping transmissions, I fear that the weight/torque has found the useable limit of our manuals and that without identifying the failure point and strengthening it, you'll be doing the same thing next run on a sticky track.

[BadAssPerformance]

Yeah, it would be good to know what broke...

Ya know, this thing was noisy evertime I drove it anywhere, had a stright cut gear kinda whine to it and having been apart so many times, I'm surprized it lasted this long.

[Shadow]

I think this is like Reeves, when he cracked the case in half. (maybe more than half even) Everyone was thinking this was "the limit" I was just thinking he wore out the trans. lol

JT, when you pulled the trans apart where you just fixing what you saw and back together, or were you checking all tolerences ect every time it was apart?

[BadAssPerformance]

I think this is like Reeves, when he cracked the case in half. (maybe more than half even) Everyone was thinking this was "the limit" I was just thinking he wore out the trans. lol

Which time? when the gear teeth fell off the 525 gears (root cause) or the time before that?


JT, when you pulled the trans apart where you just fixing what you saw and back together, or were you checking all tolerences ect every time it was apart?

Nope... LOL no tolerances or torques measured. Running on hopes and dreams!

This last time with reverse, pulled it all out the end (in the car) emptied 2 cans of brake cleaner to clean it out and till I saw clear come out the drain hole.

Put in different input shaft, reverse idler, reverse/3/4 slider, bearing plate (with used bearings that were in it), bearing back up plate and bolts. Input shaft felt tighter than one that came out...

Swapped my original bronze fork pads out and Lengel's new ones in.

Sight unseen, my thought on a potential root causes... input shaft fragged, or didnt get all the teeth out of it from reverse, one got sucked into the wrong spot

[shackwrrr]

Pull the top off and look at the dog teeth.

[Shadow]

Nope... LOL no tolerances or torques measured. Running on hopes and dreams!

This last time with reverse, pulled it all out the end (in the car) emptied 2 cans of brake cleaner to clean it out and till I saw clear come out the drain hole.

Put in different input shaft, reverse idler, reverse/3/4 slider, bearing plate (with used bearings that were in it), bearing back up plate and bolts. Input shaft felt tighter than one that came out...

Swapped my original bronze fork pads out and Lengel's new ones in.

Sight unseen, my thought on a potential root causes... input shaft fragged, or didnt get all the teeth out of it from reverse, one got sucked into the wrong spot

Right, so I'm thinking just well used tranny. Not saying the heavier Tona isn't wearing them out faster, I'm sure it is, just don't think they're done yet :) (more hoping than thinking as always)

Gotta say I'm blown away by how well these trannies stand up so far, specially the input shafts! (knock on wood)

[16valvecharger]

or accept that calling it an unlightened street car with busted transmission is less fun than lightening it, going faster and calling it a race car that works. :-)
oh snap!

[BadAssPerformance]

Right, so I'm thinking just well used tranny. Not saying the heavier Tona isn't wearing them out faster, I'm sure it is, just don't think they're done yet :) (more hoping than thinking as always)

Gotta say I'm blown away by how well these trannies stand up so far, specially the input shafts! (knock on wood)

Yeah, I'm hoping they are not done yet either!

[turboshad]

I should be able to add something to the pot next year as I expect the power to jump up quite a bit with the new snail. I would be interested to see what broke JT. From most of the failures I've seen I've come to the conclusion the most damaging part of the tranny are the helical gears trying to move the gear set axially. I've been thinking of some possible ways to make a "girdle" so to speak and stiffen up the outer bearing plate but it's still early. As for mine, small spline and missing half the synchro teeth but no where near the passes you have.

[Reeves]

From most of the failures I've seen I've come to the conclusion the most damaging part of the tranny are the helical gears trying to move the gear set axially. I've been thinking of some possible ways to make a "girdle" so to speak and stiffen up the outer bearing plate but it's still early.

Totally agree. I'm bending the bearing retainer plate at the end of my 555 because of this helical gear unwind. It's bending it enough that it actually is causing it to have a memory. I can set my input shaft preload, race a few times, take it out and the input shaft will need .010" to .020" or more shims to set the pre-load again. At first, I was straigtening the plate and re-installing, but now I decided to leave it bent.



I'm trying to source a 40 rockwell plate or so to try out. Something less bendable, but hopefully not too hard that it breaks.

[BadAssPerformance]

I'm trying to source a 40 rockwell plate or so to try out. Something less bendable, but hopefully not too hard that it breaks.

Yeah, thought about that but not sure that helps. The plate is at a serious disadvatage force vector-wise. Think about how a telephnone line between two poles always sags ans impossible to pull it enough to get it perfectly horizontal. Thin light line (bearing back up plate) with gravity acting upon it (gear shaft) has way more mechanical advantage than the poles (outer edges fo case).

For the 555's, you can add some extra c-sink'd bolts to help. Thought I posted this back in 06 when the 555 went in my T2 Shadow

41228

[BadAssPerformance]

I should be able to add something to the pot next year as I expect the power to jump up quite a bit with the new snail. I would be interested to see what broke JT. From most of the failures I've seen I've come to the conclusion the most damaging part of the tranny are the helical gears trying to move the gear set axially. I've been thinking of some possible ways to make a "girdle" so to speak and stiffen up the outer bearing plate but it's still early. As for mine, small spline and missing half the synchro teeth but no where near the passes you have.

See anyone who makes a dog box that bolts up to a 2.4L? I'll set up the GB

[turboshad]

See anyone who makes a dog box that bolts up to a 2.4L? I'll set up the GB
The only people I knew of was Rage but I don't see any good reviews and I'm not sure they are even still doing it. If I had the 6Gs I'd be designing my own already. :thumb:


If you turned it into a 4 speed you could make a much thicker bearing plate that spanned the whole case similar to the 555. I think the tranny case as a whole still needs additional axial support or it will just crack as well.

[BadAssPerformance]

How about you get yer buddy that whacked the dog teeth off to CAm us up some straigth cut gears that fit the 568 ;)

[moparman76_69]

How about you get yer buddy that whacked the dog teeth off to CAm us up some straigth cut gears that fit the 568 ;)

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[cordes]

Am I over my prediction on straight cut gears yet? I think I am, but I'm not sure. I'm a visionary if only in my own mind.

[Reeves]

If you turned it into a 4 speed you could make a much thicker bearing plate that spanned the whole case similar to the 555. I think the tranny case as a whole still needs additional axial support or it will just crack as well.

:thumb:

Was a no brainer with the 3.05 gear.....but with the 3.50 gear back in, 5th comes in handy on the interstates.

[16valvecharger]

My friend had a custom built Dog box wit custom gears shafts and billet shift forks. https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/319376_355475417865381_1307145874_n.jpgI know hes putting down between 550-650 to the tire and has trapped 140+ mph with his srt in full street trim nothing removed.

[BadAssPerformance]

T850?

[16valvecharger]

T850?Yes, and as far as I know there is one more complete on the shelf.

[cordes]

My friend had a custom built Dog box wit custom gears shafts and billet shift forks. https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/319376_355475417865381_1307145874_n.jpgI know hes putting down between 550-650 to the tire and has trapped 140+ mph with his srt in full street trim nothing removed.

Holy guacamole.

[Reeves]

Very nice.

More info?

[16valvecharger]

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s113/slow_turbo_z/3-4shiftfork.jpghttp://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s113/slow_turbo_z/libertygears-6.jpghttp://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s113/slow_turbo_z/libertygears-5.jpghttp://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s113/slow_turbo_z/libertygears-5.jpg


Ive seen broken shafts but not like this. This is an aftermarket Gator shaft.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s113/slow_turbo_z/brokenaxle.jpg

[BadAssPerformance]

Well, I wasn't planning to go to a T850, but if there is one that can take a lot more sh!t, LMK the details!

[Shadow]

Pretty sure Realtune has them figured out pretty well. Several 9 sec SRT-4's running without Dogbox with Realtune modded T850's.

[BadAssPerformance]

I read that Realtune used the Rage gear setup which were actually made by a shop just outside of Chicago... wonder if I can talk them into making a set that slips right int he A568 :eyebrows:

[SebringLX]

This company had their gears go to Mars... http://www.forestcitygear.com/index.asp
Here's another one: http://www.raycargear.com/index.php
This one has been around since 1934: http://www.schafergear.com/
Another one that's been around 50 years: http://www.excelgear.com/

We've got a ton of these out here. ;)

[BadAssPerformance]

Hmmm need NASA funding LOL

[Khajjathefang]

Hmmm need NASA funding LOL

So does NASA unfortunately

[BadAssPerformance]

Yeah, no doubt!

[cordes]

now that they've gone back to landing things successfully on mars rather than crashing them into it or getting them stuck a couple days into the mission I'm sure they'll be able to drum up some additional funds.

[black86glhs]

Maybe you can get the funds that used to go to NASA? Just mark out NASA on the form and write in Solyndra......guaranteed funding FTW!:thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

Going to the garage to dissect the beast... any final guesses at what it is?

You can actually see the incar cam when it blew up in this video after 0:50 LOL


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0TibXTt790

[Khajjathefang]

jt, know where i can find the full clip of the polara @ 2:26?

[BadAssPerformance]

We got it somewhere, not sur ewhere MB put the file. It got out of it after that crooked launch

[BadAssPerformance]

41277

[cordes]

Total devastation. Something got in there, or something is really loose to allow for that without damaging the case I would think.

[BadAssPerformance]

Before I took the axles out, had it jacked in the air and rotated one side and woulda guessed it was this or the diff blew up as it did not want to rotate by hand.

I'll take the trans out to see what shape the diff is in... right now guessing it was a shard of reverse that got sucked off the magnet during the burnout and let go on launch.

OR the diff bearings are loose or something allowed miss-alignment/binding/kaBOOM

OR the pinion teeth had enuff...

The front bearing is also cracked, prob result of pinion carnage

Lengels shift fork pads look great!

41278412794128041281412824128341284412854128641287 412884128941290

[Khajjathefang]

WOW.


We got it somewhere, not sur ewhere MB put the file. It got out of it after that crooked launch

He only make one pass? that thing is SEX

[BadAssPerformance]

Just not sure if we got the other passes on video

[Khajjathefang]

Recall what it ran?

[BadAssPerformance]

Qualified 3rd with an 8.12, Slowe had to run him 1st round, we left before then.

41291

[Khajjathefang]

Qualified 3rd with an 8.12, Slowe had to run him 1st round, we left before then.

41291

http://www.kilpatrickengine.com/bjr.htm

thats all i needed, You're the man!

this concludes our threadjack, you may now return to carnage already in progress :P

[cordes]

Dang JT. You're going through the hard pieces fast enough to pay for a straight cut gear set pretty soon as it is.

[MiniMopar]

If not debris, I'm going to guess case flex or some other alignment issue. That sux! Any idea what the diff preload was like the last time you had it out?

[BadAssPerformance]

http://www.kilpatrickengine.com/bjr.htm

thats all i needed, You're the man!

this concludes our threadjack, you may now return to carnage already in progress :P

LOL, no problem! that car is awesome!


Dang JT. You're going through the hard pieces fast enough to pay for a straight cut gear set pretty soon as it is.

The next 568 is going in with a fresh OBX and 3.85 gears in hopes to finish the season... straight cut research has begun


If not debris, I'm going to guess case flex or some other alignment issue. That sux! Any idea what the diff preload was like the last time you had it out?

I havn't measured it since I put it together, but will before taking the diff out... like your thinking, was wondering if it may be sloppy enough to improperly load the gears.

[cordes]

What are you doing with the old OBX, and how are you going to use the new one with the 3.85 gears?

[BadAssPerformance]

If its OK, either shelve it for a future trans or sell it "sold as is" LOL

Got a 3.85 gear out of 523 from Jackson :)

[MiniMopar]

I havn't measured it since I put it together, but will before taking the diff out... like your thinking, was wondering if it may be sloppy enough to improperly load the gears.

It doesn't take much misalignment to focus the stress on the edges of the teeth. They are quite brittle, so I imagine they eventually fatigue. I'm pretty sure that's how I exploded 2nd gear in my A520 on the CSX. A little different though, since that was probably due to input shaft misalignment from retainer plate flex. That surely wasn't the case here. Going with the 3.85 set will give you a little more tooth engagement, too.

Since you don't really drive it anywhere, I would probably set the preload abnormally high to help compensate for any case flex. Good luck!

[cordes]

If its OK, either shelve it for a future trans or sell it "sold as is" LOL

Got a 3.85 gear out of 523 from Jackson :)

Wow, jackpot on the 3.85 523. Those didn't come in many of the cars.

[BadAssPerformance]

It doesn't take much misalignment to focus the stress on the edges of the teeth. ....Since you don't really drive it anywhere, I would probably set the preload abnormally high to help compensate for any case flex. Good luck!

Was thinking about that... will know soon, made some room on the bench tonight! Was also thinking about extra pre-load but then thinking it may need room to expand at 140mph?


Wow, jackpot on the 3.85 523. Those didn't come in many of the cars.

There are a few out there, PawPaw Jason is selling one now... I didnt need the whole thing and Jackson found one to scavenge

[BadAssPerformance]

COME ON DOWN! You're the next contestant on "will this trans survive?"

41415

[cordes]

That's great.

[black86glhs]

Only if you learn to shift?






LMAO!!!

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL... that too ;)

[turboshad]

No not a chance. There's no bolts holding the shifter mech. on.

Regardless of the poor assembly, did you go 3.85?

[Reeves]

Doubtful....it's a 568 :)

[BadAssPerformance]

No not a chance. There's no bolts holding the shifter mech. on.

Regardless of the poor assembly, did you go 3.85?

LOL, good eye, its mostly empty too! ;) Yes, gonna give it a try


Doubtful....it's a 568 :)

I was seriously considering putting a big spline input shaft in a A555...

[Reeves]

LOL, good eye, its mostly empty too! ;) Yes, gonna give it a try



I was seriously considering putting a big spline input shaft in a A555...

Has anyone broke a small spline 555 input shaft??

[Pat]

Has anyone broke a small spline 555 input shaft??

If you haven't yet, I doubt it!

[cordes]

Has anyone broke a small spline 555 input shaft??

I have never read of any input shafts breaking regardless of transmission, but that doesn't mean that it hasn't happened. I think it's safe to say that the rate of failure is quite favorable regardless of which shaft you choose.

[turboshad]

I'm still running small spline FWIW

[BadAssPerformance]

Not sure if anyone has but several have broken the T850 input shafts, so gotta be close for us.

My reasoning for thinking about putting the big spline input shaft into the 555 was more so I could use the $1200 clutch thats in the car...

Well, just got home.. stopped off at Mc(race)Master Carr for some shim stock I might use to tighten the input shfat clearance a tad, but before that I'll see if the magical shim is in the old trans.. I know I said I didnt want to use any parts from it, but if its the right one, its gonna be used...

well, off to the garage to pull the beat-up boxer out of the ring and sweep his teeth off the floor...

[cordes]

Not sure if anyone has but several have broken the T850 input shafts, so gotta be close for us.

My reasoning for thinking about putting the big spline input shaft into the 555 was more so I could use the $1200 clutch thats in the car...

Well, just got home.. stopped off at Mc(race)Master Carr for some shim stock I might use to tighten the input shfat clearance a tad, but before that I'll see if the magical shim is in the old trans.. I know I said I didnt want to use any parts from it, but if its the right one, its gonna be used...

well, off to the garage to pull the beat-up boxer out of the ring and sweep his teeth off the floor...

Big shaft trans it is!

[black86glhs]

Big shaft trans it is!Hmmmmmm....this could be taken soooo wrong...LOL.

Is this statement like, "Black, just like I like my women?":D

[Shadow]

I'm still running small spline FWIW

Add me to the list..........

[16valvecharger]

I'm still running small spline FWIW
thats what she said...lol :nod:

[BadAssPerformance]

Hmmmmmm....this could be taken soooo wrong...LOL.

Is this statement like, "Black, just like I like my women?":D

I used to order my coffee that way

[moparman76_69]

Big shaft trans it is!


Hmmmmmm....this could be taken soooo wrong...LOL.

Is this statement like, "Black, just like I like my women?":D

They say women prefer their shafts with more girth. But to each their own.

[135sohc]

The T850 shafts snap-off because of that built in torque fuse the manufacturing process dictates...

Other than the larger vs smaller splines the diameter of the input shaft after the splines is the same anyways.

[Reeves]

Well, just got home.. stopped off at Mc(race)Master Carr for some shim stock I might use to tighten the input shfat clearance a tad, but before that I'll see if the magical shim is in the old trans.. I know I said I didnt want to use any parts from it, but if its the right one, its gonna be used...

Just FYI, before I junk any transmission, I always pull all the input shaft shims and diff shims to keep on hand for future builds (and fork pads if they are good). I also have a selection of McRace Carr shims.

[BadAssPerformance]

Today was a good day! Drove it aropund the block in 1 thru 5 then used reverse to get it back into the garage :)

Here are a small group of pics from the project...

41500415014150241503415044150541506415074150841509 41510415114151241513415144151541516415174151841519 415204152141522415234152441525415264152741528

[cordes]

What does an electric mag base like that run?

Is that a reinforcing piece that it's bolted to or something stock in that style of trans? It doesn't look familiar.

[BadAssPerformance]

IIR, I picked up the HF magnetic base and dial indicator on sale for less than $20 for both.

The 568/523 has a smaller bearing back up plate that only extends past the two bearings and has the 4 bolts to attach it

This trans is stock except:
- OBX
- rbryant OBX Washers
- +5mm SHCS bolts for OBX (the ones that wer ein it were finger tight)
- Lengel Bronze 1-2 and 3-4 fork pads
- Double springs on the 1-2 slider
- A555 Springs on the 3-4 slider

(I might have the 1-2 and 3-4 springs backwards... I doubles the one that is teh same as 5th and the other one ised the 555 ones cuz they are heavier gage than the 568 and I didnt have extra 568 ones)

[135sohc]

Looks good :nod: Hopefully the extra time setting things up and knowing all the moving pieces are as in-spec as possible will pay off.

[Reeves]

Looks good man! Hope she holds together for a LONG time for you.

[turboshad]

Can you remove a gear set without R&Ring the tranny? Looks good JT, now getter to the track. :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

Looking good, :nod:

What's all the broken bits?

Funky looking clutch, :thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

Looks good :nod: Hopefully the extra time setting things up and knowing all the moving pieces are as in-spec as possible will pay off.

Thanks, sure hope so!


Looks good man! Hope she holds together for a LONG time for you.

Thanks, me too! :thumb:


Can you remove a gear set without R&Ring the tranny? Looks good JT, now getter to the track. :thumb:

Thanks, running this Friday at Monster Mopar! You can pull the input shaft and intermediate shaft/speed gears out the side in the car, but not the diff...


Looking good, :nod:

What's all the broken bits?

Funky looking clutch, :thumb:

Thanks! The bit are the teeth off the ring and pinion...

[turbovanman²]

Oh, I know that one, lol. :banghead:

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL, yes you do!

I think I might have determined the rot cause too... working on this the past week I recalled putting the 3.50 gears in it and the pinion had a chipped tooth! I've run it that way since it went in years ago. Need to dig up pics to see if the tooth that was chipped looks like what started this

[Pat]

Any of the reverse chatter you had before?

[turbovanman²]

LOL, well hopefully this one stays together, for both of us, :nod:

[BadAssPerformance]

Any of the reverse chatter you had before?

Unfortunately yes, but not as violent. I'm sure some of it is just the crabby clutch and crappy reverse gears


LOL, well hopefully this one stays together, for both of us, :nod:

Right on :thumb:

[Khajjathefang]

In car vids for the weekend? ;)

[Reeves]

JT,
Are those discs sprung hub?

[BadAssPerformance]

In car vids for the weekend? ;)

The GoPro will hopefully go for a coupel rides!


JT,
Are those discs sprung hub?

nope

[speedfreek500]

[QUOTE=BadAssPerformance;948062]Unfortunately yes, but not as violent. I'm sure some of it is just the crabby clutch and crappy reverse gears


I think you should invest in a Transmission angel lol just hang it over your transmission and all will be good :thumb:

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx212/speedfreek500/transmissiongearangel.jpg

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL, Awesome!

[Shadow]

JT,
Are those discs sprung hub?

Could be wrong, but I'm not aware of any True twin disc set-up that isn't solid hub. When I did all my research several years ago and contacted 5-6 different companys they all said solid. Sprung would add to much weight and take up to much room.

[BadAssPerformance]

Booo Yaaa!

41566

[cordes]

Congrats on the plate. What's the EA?

[shmedley]

Extended Antique So you can drive it when ever you want compared to the regular antique plates where it's supposed to be go get it service and only certain car shows

[cordes]

Extended Antique So you can drive it when ever you want compared to the regular antique plates where it's supposed to be go get it service and only certain car shows

Thanks. That's what I was thinking, but I couldn't figure out what the E was. I have antique plates on the blue omni since I hardly drive it.

[Khajjathefang]

Bah we have no such thing :(

[BadAssPerformance]

First pass with new trans today before the rain hit...

spun/shook off the line, missed 2nd :( 3 and 4 were OK, 11.34@134.xx... then it didnt want to idle too well down the return road... plugs looed OK, cooled off and it idles OK now.

[cordes]

Bummer about the rain. Any idea about the missed shift? Your error, something mechanical, or a combination of the two?

[BadAssPerformance]

felt like a solid lock out, so adjusted the cable slightly...

[cordes]

That's interesting. Have you been running the same cables this whole time?

[BadAssPerformance]

Yeah, same cables as before, same shifter assembly from trans too (yeah, i know I said I wasn't gonna use anything from the old trans) but i made aslight adjustment to the cable end and 2nd works OK now!

Rundown of rins so far:

Friday Pro Time Run #1 - No 2-step, spin then miss 2nd, 29psi

R/T: 0.235
60': 1.850
330: 5.160
1/8 ET: 7.635
1/8 mph: 103.40
1000': 9.652
1/4 ET: 11.344
1/4 mph:134.07

Saturday Pro Time Run #1 - 2-step, spin then bog, 29psi

R/T: 0.107
60': 1.917
330: 4.852
1/8 ET: 7.146
1/8 mph: 109.03
1000': 9.111
1/4 ET: 10.755
1/4 mph:137.44

Saturday "No Box" Round 1 - 2-step, spin/shake in 1 and 2, 29psi

ME______Duster
10.61_Dial_12.99
0.086_R/T_0.045
1.833_60'_1.872
4.769_330_5.317
7.054_1/8 ET_8.254
109.64_1/8 mph_83.19
9.006_1000'_10.823
10.641_1/4 ET_13.012
139.30_1/4 mph_102.56

So I lost Round 1 of the "No Box" race but it was fun. I thought I clipped him going thru the lights, but it was hard to tell going by him ~37mh faster, LOL... I took my crew chief (MB) advise on the 10.61 dial noto having anything othe rthan the first two runs to go by... 10.64 on a 61 dial not too bad

We were hoping to get another round of Pro time run in but too many breaks, temp dropping below 50F we decided to call t a day... hoping for better tomorrow

[cordes]

That's a lot of MPH JT. I can't wait to read what tomorrow will bring.

[22shelby]

holy crap!!!!! yeah with Brian on this, lets see 140!!!!!!

[shackwrrr]

Would you like to try out an n2mb flat shift box? May save the trans a bit and make shifting more consistent. I have one in a box that's for a project that isn't moving fast.

[black86glhs]

I see at least a 139.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999 here real soon!!!:D:thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks for the wishful thoughts, but it didnt happen...

Morning time run, broke the right axle at the line :( then for PRO round 1 broke again at the line, guessing another right axle... :(

Going to call DSS today

Still an awesome weekend, glad the trans shifts well!

[turbovanman²]

Your flying for sure, bummer about the axles. Didn't you break those already? Thought they were the toughest shitt on the planet? :eyebrows:

[BadAssPerformance]

Confirmed... two pass side axles.. and the torque biasing diff tweaked both drivers side axles too... woulda been great short times :banghead:

pics to come

[speedfreek500]

Ouch, that sucks. Glad to hear the trans is still togher.

[BadAssPerformance]

41622

[turbovanman²]

What are they using for the inner CV joints? They look like stockers? :(

[BadAssPerformance]

They use chrome moly for the inners and outers, so they are supposed to haev some spring and ductility to them, but if the heat treat is not right, even CM can get brittle... working on it, will post up when I know more

[csxtra]

Wow JT, too bad about the breakage, but VERY glad to hear that it is not the trans!

[cordes]

Breaking those axles is some serious action. That stinks, but it's pretty impressive at the same time.

[turbovanman²]

They use chrome moly for the inners and outers, so they are supposed to haev some spring and ductility to them, but if the heat treat is not right, even CM can get brittle... working on it, will post up when I know more

Interesting.

[BadAssPerformance]

Wow JT, too bad about the breakage, but VERY glad to hear that it is not the trans!

Exactly! My only fear on the trans is that the diff got beat up with each break... when the PS axle breaks, the torque biasing diff sends all the power to the DS... at least that is my theory as and those splines were starting to twist too :(

[Pat]

Exactly! My only fear on the trans is that the diff got beat up with each break... when the PS axle breaks, the torque biasing diff sends all the power to the DS... at least that is my theory as and those splines were starting to twist too :(

Sweet MPH and double sweet that you didn't pop the trans!

Did you get any wheel hop or tire skake? I'm sure that wreaks havoc on those splines. Also, are you running 24.5's still or 26's?

[ShelGame]

They use chrome moly for the inners and outers, so they are supposed to haev some spring and ductility to them, but if the heat treat is not right, even CM can get brittle... working on it, will post up when I know more

Which CM do they use? 4130? Or 4340? 4340 is tought stuff, but if heat treated improperly, it can go brittle, as you mentioned.

[Reeves]

Please keep us updated on what DSS has to say. This is going to be our next adventure I'm afraid......trying to find more durable axles.


Exactly! My only fear on the trans is that the diff got beat up with each break... when the PS axle breaks, the torque biasing diff sends all the power to the DS... at least that is my theory as and those splines were starting to twist too :(

I'm not sure if this is true or not.....I mean, once an axle breaks, you go no where......so technically the power IS NOT going to the other axle.

[Pat]

Please keep us updated on what DSS has to say. This is going to be our next adventure I'm afraid......trying to find more durable axles.



I'm not sure if this is true or not.....I mean, once an axle breaks, you go no where......so technically the power IS NOT going to the other axle.

That's correct...with the torque biasing diff, you need some resistance on one side to transfer torque to the other. If one side is completely free wheeling, like if an axle breaks, you'll get no power transfer to the other side.

[Reeves]

That's correct...with the torque biasing diff, you need some resistance on one side to transfer torque to the other. If one side is completely free wheeling, like if an axle breaks, you'll get no power transfer to the other side.

Which really is a good thing, as I saw Jon Moore come inches from taking out the tree when an axle broke on his welded diff DOH!

[BadAssPerformance]

Sweet MPH and double sweet that you didn't pop the trans!

Did you get any wheel hop or tire skake? I'm sure that wreaks havoc on those splines. Also, are you running 24.5's still or 26's?

26's, and yes tire shake on teh set taht went a couple passes... no tire shake on the last one that popped


Which CM do they use? 4130? Or 4340? 4340 is tought stuff, but if heat treated improperly, it can go brittle, as you mentioned.

Pretty sure 4340, and they said bad heat treat the last PS one I cracked and I'm wondering if these were from teh same LOT :(


Please keep us updated on what DSS has to say. This is going to be our next adventure I'm afraid......trying to find more durable axles.

I'm not sure if this is true or not.....I mean, once an axle breaks, you go no where......so technically the power IS NOT going to the other axle.

Yeah, will work with DSS to figure this out for sure.

Hmmm... but it was moving forward a bit when it popped, so... :confused:


Wow, you got 4 of those bad boys! Do they give bulk buy discounts? :)

Kinda ;) I'd be willing to do a group buy after we get this figured out and if there is enough interest

[ShelGame]

26's, and yes tire shake on teh set taht went a couple passes... no tire shake on the last one that popped



Pretty sure 4340, and they said bad heat treat the last PS one I cracked and I'm wondering if these were from teh same LOT :(



Yeah, will work with DSS to figure this out for sure.

Hmmm... but it was moving forward a bit when it popped, so... :confused:



Kinda ;) I'd be willing to do a group buy after we get this figured out and if there is enough interest

What's the cost from DSS? It might be worth looking into having Metalore make some. If it's just the shaft (and not the CV also) they might be competitive.

[Reeves]

I don't think I've ever broke the middle of a shaft. Usually I break the shaft inside the trans, the inner CV, and now the outer cv. Oh....hang on....I take that back....I think I have broke the middle shaft on one of the CV ends before or a few times.

---------- Post added at 02:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 PM ----------

Wow that is really hard to read. Sorry.

[turbovanman²]

I don't think I've ever broke the middle of a shaft. Usually I break the shaft inside the trans, the inner CV, and now the outer cv. Oh....hang on....I take that back....I think I have broke the middle shaft on one of the CV ends before or a few times.

---------- Post added at 02:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 PM ----------

Wow that is really hard to read. Sorry.

Put down the beer, lol.

[BadAssPerformance]

What's the cost from DSS? It might be worth looking into having Metalore make some. If it's just the shaft (and not the CV also) they might be competitive.

IIR, I think the L5's were like $800/pair?

Its the splined end of the inner "tulip" (CV housing) that keeps snapping off. Their design is pretty strong, but I'm pretty sure its a material or HT issue.

Parts shipped out today, they will have them Friday

[Reeves]

Pics of my broken axle from Monster Mopar Weekend (same weekend JT broke his two DSS axles) FWIW:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?44482-Reeves-OMNI-GLH-R-Update!&p=950385&posted=1#post950385

[BadAssPerformance]

What's the warranty and how much to repair/rebuild?

Their typical warranty is 1 year.. the set that had over 200 runs on was ~200 including shipping to get two new inner joints installed, but those are 7years old. The next one to break the pass side one (which was also 7 years old, but w/o as many runs on it) they took care of. Will see what we end up doing with these two now. I REALLY want to just figure it out so we got an alternative that works


Pics of my broken axle from Monster Mopar Weekend (same weekend JT broke his two DSS axles) FWIW:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?44482-Reeves-OMNI-GLH-R-Update!&p=950385&posted=1#post950385

Yeah, track was sticky, tuff on axles... Whats that center bar made of?

[Reeves]

Yeah, track was sticky, tuff on axles... Whats that center bar made of?


While I agree the track was sticky, I do not believe that is why we were breaking axles. I was having uncontrollable wheel hop in left lane that I believe was caused by rough track conditions and layers of rubber. I never have wheel hop on a non-sticky track (spin) and usually never on a sticky track either. I think it was a combo of the track set to "hook" and a combo of a TON of cars putting down rubber and not enough time to clean up the layers due to too many oil downs to clean up.

Center bar and CV's are all stock Dynasty, except narrowed to fit in OMNI.

[BadAssPerformance]

yeah, wheel hopped thru 2nd :(

but the last one i broke didn't make it more than 10' down the track... i think it was just a bad part

[BadAssPerformance]

I need axles bad, want to run it more this year!

Vids from Monster...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsVcvizZees


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFuwylmmnn0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7NtIIdneOA

[turbo2point2]

Nice runs JT!! The mph is getting up there :thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks!, now I just need to make it stick and not break, and it will fly! LOL!

[blk86trbo]

Those vids are awesome JT! April and I felt like we were in the car...btw, you have the best plate ever!

[BadAssPerformance]

Glad you like! MB showed me that if you click the little gear icon umder the video, you can select 1080p HD and kinda/almost see the gauges!

Yeah, got lucky on the plaet ALMOST had "SHELBY" for the CSX :(

[ShelGame]

Glad you like! MB showed me that if you click the little gear icon umder the video, you can select 1080p HD and kinda/almost see the gauges!

Yeah, got lucky on the plaet ALMOST had "SHELBY" for the CSX :(

Nice vid, where's the camera mounted? Pass window?

[BadAssPerformance]

Yep, suction cup mount to window. The crappy part about GoPro, cant see what the camera see's, but at least its a super wide angle so lots of peripheral

[Reaper1]

JT, it looks to me like the diff/pinion gear failure was due to contamination. If it were a failed tooth, usually it will wipe both gears clean from what I've seen.

As far the axles, you notice that 99% of the time they snap at the end of the splines. This is due to there being a major stress riser there (wheel hop doesn't help). I think the transition from the spline to the shaft needs to be re-engineered to reduce the stress riser there. I'm not sure any kind of "process" (be it heat treatment, shot peening, chryo, ect) is going to make a difference. MAYBE a change in alloy could help, but I think inherantly it will still fail without a re-design.

Also, check the alignment of the gear/spline inside of the OBX. There have been instances where the splines aren't cut correctly in the side gear and causes a missalignment. I think mine has that issue as it it tight to get the axle in the transmission without holding your tongue just right.

For the end plate...I on that I think a change in alloy, and possibly a CNC'd part with strengthening ribs might be in order. I don't know how well carbon fiber would do, but it is SUPER stiff and won't get a memory. My only big concerns are surface defects and chemical breakdown of the resin.

Oh...and I need 6 of those transmission angels....one for each gear!! LOL

[BadAssPerformance]

Yeah, possibly contamination sure there was some reverse bits floating around... happened at the line so thinking if the tooth let go it might not have stripped the whole gear (was less than 1/2)

axles... yes, just before the splines... did you see the pic of the ductile break next to the brittle break? I was thinking stress riser too, but the last two to break one was at the end of the splines and the other was 1.5mm before the splines.

OBX... I figured out that you need to tighten the OBX bolts with an axle stub shaft in the OBX to hold it centered. This makes the axles go in easy without issue. I think thats teh purpose of the bellvile washers to hold the splined inserts in position when installed into the trans

Hmmm... maybe a CF end cover... that would be easy to make.

[Reaper1]

The thickness of the end cover or the bearing support plate (or both) would make for a VERY strong and stiff CF part. Just have to be careful when putting the holes in it for screws, ect. NO overtorquing...NO chipping....NO burs....NO exposed CF(it MUST be sealed to prevent contamination and delamination). After my training a a few weeks I'll be able to give even more insight on how to properly fasten and modify CF and CFRP. Working on the 787 as a manufacturing engineer has its advantages! ;)

[black86glhs]

I understand about treating things and rolling the splines, etc., but honestly I believe we are getting to the limits of these components. If we could increase the length of splines engaged or the thickness of the material, it would be better, but that would require a lot of re-engineering of the diff, case, bearings.....you get the ideas.

[turboshad]

JT, I have been thinking about this a bunch and here's my take as I would also like to find a solution since I'm sure I'll be in the same boat soon. I seem to see way more pass. axles being broken then driver's. So what's the difference? The same torque goes through both and the splines are the same with the same stress risers. The big difference I see is the distance from the spines to the first CV. The further this distance the more bending forces you will see in the shaft from the off axis CV rotation. I think this is why the pass. side seems to break the most and the break of course happens at the point with the largest risers which has been talked about. There is no support, except for the seal which IMO is no support, between the diff and the pass. CV. If there were a bearing there I think it would improve allot as the length of the shaft before the CV would be supported. I have some more ideas but I need to take a look to see if they are possible and it would of course require a few custom pieces. Might be a good winter project.

[BadAssPerformance]

The thickness of the end cover or the bearing support plate (or both) would make for a VERY strong and stiff CF part. Just have to be careful when putting the holes in it for screws, ect. NO overtorquing...NO chipping....NO burs....NO exposed CF(it MUST be sealed to prevent contamination and delamination). After my training a a few weeks I'll be able to give even more insight on how to properly fasten and modify CF and CFRP. Working on the 787 as a manufacturing engineer has its advantages! ;)

Keep us posted on your learnings!


I understand about treating things and rolling the splines, etc., but honestly I believe we are getting to the limits of these components. If we could increase the length of splines engaged or the thickness of the material, it would be better, but that would require a lot of re-engineering of the diff, case, bearings.....you get the ideas.

spline length wont help, but yeah diameter or material should

However... the same size DSS axles ends lived through DCR/Crawfords Neon and ~1400whp... which leads me to believe there was a heat treat flaw with these, which is one thing DSS mentioned.

Hell, look at the Driver Side axle that went 200+ passes, textbook example of a "ductile" failure" all twisted and such:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39481&d=1336279481

And the passenger axles all looked like this, textbook example of a "brittle" failure" not even the splines twisted:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40915&d=1343873310


There is no support, except for the seal which IMO is no support, between the diff and the pass. CV. If there were a bearing there I think it would improve allot as the length of the shaft before the CV would be supported. I have some more ideas but I need to take a look to see if they are possible and it would of course require a few custom pieces. Might be a good winter project.

Need to add a bushing in the tail shaft housing...


This is the reason we never went with the unequil length set-up in the first place, but instead, built a solid half-shaft to keep the forces as equil as possible.

Bizzare when you think that we are the only ones in the world that I'm aware of that went this route?

I though the only reason you never went to unequal length was you never broke a u-joint or axle

[cordes]

Yikes. That pass side axle looks like a file does after you drop it and it breaks. Wow.

[black86glhs]

Here, I'll pat you on the back so your hand won't hurt....LOL.

JT, I see what your talking about after looking at the pics and didn't know that they have seen power levels that high. If we were willing to spend $3000 an axle, I bet we could get them made and x-rayed and proper treatment. Plus they would start out with a better piece before it is even machined.

I read it wrong, I thought they were weaker than they are, never mind...LOL.

[135sohc]

Earlier transmissions have a bronze bushing in the extension housing.

[Reaper1]

http://products.asminternational.org/fach/data/fullDisplay.do?database=faco&record=486&trim=false

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/51210030541

http://www.met-tech.com/fractured-input-shaft.html

These sites are VERY informative as far as splined shaft failure.

From what I can tell about the situation wheel hop has a LOT to do with the failure of these shafts as they seem to be failing from fatigue. The material *might* have something to do with it, or the process the material has been through, but it seems to me there are other issues here.

Even the design isn't *too* horrible, but it could be better. In order to relieve the stress risers of the splines, we'd have to have a larger fillet at the root of the spline, and that would require a custom set of side gears.

Also, a bending moment can cause this issue, so propper alignment of the shaft is critical. Yes, we have CV joints, but those are still not 100% efficient at keeping the shaft aligned. I think it would be prudent to set the car up in its state of maximum acceleration in static form and make sure the shafts are as aligned as they can be. This will reduce the tendancy for a bending moment to cause a fatigue fracture that way. Also, balancing the assembly is probably a good idea. I don't know what the critical harmonic frequency is, but making sure the components are as balanced as possible will also reduce the risk of fatigue.

#1 priority should be absolutely getting rid of ANY tendancy toward wheel hop. I think it's time for suspension mods!

---------- Post added at 12:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 PM ----------

http://products.asminternational.org/fach/data/fullDisplay.do?database=faco&record=143&trim=false

This is good as well....

[Reaper1]

Here....let's just make a CFRP/Ti transaxle case with custom shafts and gears and sequential shift via hydraulic controls! There....near indestructible gearbox with infinite tunability, ultralight-weight, and no more shifter to use...flappy paddles...no more botched shifts!

http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/gearbox.html

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks for the links, I'll check those out.

I agree, wheep hop doesnt help and I understand fatigue, but think this may not be a case of fatigue...

The last axle that broke befor eany of that...

was a brand new stub
less than 1 mile on it (driven from pits to the line)
one burnout (hooking the tire as it rolled out of the water was the ONLY pre-stess to the part that broke)
one launch, crack, only made it a foot down the track, barely broke the staginge beams

---------- Post added at 12:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 PM ----------

that sequential box would work.. heck, I'd just like a Lenco!

[Reaper1]

I think there is a FWD Lenco...just don't know if it is transverse, or if it a longitudintal layout like the LH cars.

[black86glhs]

Whether the whole thing or all the individual parts get balanced would be neat to see. Not sure if it would make the drive any better or if it would just help not breaking them. Either way, I like the idea.

[turbovanman²]

Those first pics of the F1 gear box looks exactly like a bike transmission, shift drum and all.


This is the reason we never went with the unequil length set-up in the first place, but instead, built a solid half-shaft to keep the forces as equil as possible.

Bizzare when you think that we are the only ones in the world that I'm aware of that went this route?

If your talking equal length, many OE's run it, GM pretty well had every FWD car with power with them, most import V6's have them and I've seen alot of Fords in the last 10-15 years have them, auto's as well as 5 speeds. My customers 1999 Sienna even has them.


Earlier transmissions have a bronze bushing in the extension housing.

Yeah, they went to a solid chunk, probably cheaper to make.

[Reaper1]

Simon, if you look at X-trac, Quaife, and other sequential transmissions, they are all basically the same.

My issue is that NONE of the FWD versions are rated for more than 350ft-lb or torque, usually. Well, we blow that away! Now, I don't know if that rating is a "safe" rating, just like our stock transmission, or if that is an ultimate rating. I wouldn't want to spend $8k(probably more) to find out, though!

Even RWD versions have *low* torque ratings compared to something like the Viper T56. That's why *if* I decide to go RWD, that's the transmission I've pretty much decided on. I've thought about the newer Z06 transaxle with torque tube as well simply for weight distribution and footwell space, but those aren't rated for as much power and don't have as much aftermarket support.

There is also a newer Toyota transmission (NOT the R154) that people have been using with good success as well. It's a LOT lighter than the T56, but there is hardly any aftermarket support.

To address the equal length half-shaft thing, almost ALL import FWD cars have had equal length half shafts for a LONG time. They do it a bit differently, however. Instead of having the seperate torque tube and then shaft, they incorporate the transfer part with the support bearing on that side of the shaft. I suppose *technically* it's not an equal length system like ours, but the physics are the same and there are less failure points and less mass.

In the way of parts interchange, we do have the leg up if you decide to stick with that system because the actual shafts are the same side-to-side, so spares can be used on either side.

What ever became of the theory that the support bearing assembly causes stress on the block and is a factor in cracking between the freeze plugs on the back of the block? It seems plausible, but has there been any conclusive evidence?

[Rampage16V]

JT I've seen an aftermarket seal for the left side that had a support bearing built in

[Pat]

JT I've seen an aftermarket seal for the left side that had a support bearing built in


csxtra





...if you know what I mean... Turbo Mopar Contributor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Join Date: Dec 2005Location: Cincinnati OHPosts: 512




Re: differential shims



Pat, thanks for posting this up, I've got 3 555s and 1 568 to work on this spring (only one of them mine...).

Now to hijack the thread:
While looking at the Transmission Parts USA website, I found these:



http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/...-032125lrb.htm

FWD axle stabilizer with bearing, fits A413, A525, A520, A555.

Has anybody used these before? I'm thinking it might take some load off of the diff bearings, especially when running an unequal-length setup.


Last edited by csxtra; 03-06-2009 at 12:23 AM.

[turbovanman²]

Simon, if you look at X-trac, Quaife, and other sequential transmissions, they are all basically the same.

My issue is that NONE of the FWD versions are rated for more than 350ft-lb or torque, usually. Well, we blow that away! Now, I don't know if that rating is a "safe" rating, just like our stock transmission, or if that is an ultimate rating. I wouldn't want to spend $8k(probably more) to find out, though!

Even RWD versions have *low* torque ratings compared to something like the Viper T56. That's why *if* I decide to go RWD, that's the transmission I've pretty much decided on. I've thought about the newer Z06 transaxle with torque tube as well simply for weight distribution and footwell space, but those aren't rated for as much power and don't have as much aftermarket support.

There is also a newer Toyota transmission (NOT the R154) that people have been using with good success as well. It's a LOT lighter than the T56, but there is hardly any aftermarket support.

To address the equal length half-shaft thing, almost ALL import FWD cars have had equal length half shafts for a LONG time. They do it a bit differently, however. Instead of having the seperate torque tube and then shaft, they incorporate the transfer part with the support bearing on that side of the shaft. I suppose *technically* it's not an equal length system like ours, but the physics are the same and there are less failure points and less mass.

In the way of parts interchange, we do have the leg up if you decide to stick with that system because the actual shafts are the same side-to-side, so spares can be used on either side.

What ever became of the theory that the support bearing assembly causes stress on the block and is a factor in cracking between the freeze plugs on the back of the block? It seems plausible, but has there been any conclusive evidence?

Yea, no u-joint, smarter I think and I did some reading on that years ago, its still considered an equal length setup. Agreed, Dodge was smart enough to use the same shaft on both sides, :thumb:


Was refering to Our equil length set-up and just surprised after all this time that we seem to be the Only ones that stuck with and improved it all the way to this power level.

I remember reading a thread somewhere (years ago) where they were discussing exactly what we did and decided that it would be too hard to balance or some thing like that and wrote off the idea! lol

All I could think was, damn, that's typical TD/TM thinking right there, argue and use all your engineering degrees to the absolute (verbal) failure of something and don't even give it a try! lol

---------- Post added at 08:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 AM ----------



Never heard of that one? Is that what ppl really thought? Only way I could see any significant load on that brkt would be if the bearing was piling up...........

Not sure, some said they wanted to remove the u-joint as everyone never uses one.

I think someone floated that theory years ago but of course, never proven.


JT I've seen an aftermarket seal for the left side that had a support bearing built in

Yep, Sonnax I believe made something, it was a bypass for fixing worn diff carrier bearings.

[Reaper1]

WOAH!!!! Now THAT is something I think we could ALL bennefit from! I wonder how well they work/last?

[csxtra]

Yep, Sonnax I believe made something, it was a bypass for fixing worn diff carrier bearings.

Here is an updated link the the combination bearing/seal:
http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/Chrysler_FWD_axle_stabalizer_w_bearing_and_seal_p/609-032125lrb.htm

[BadAssPerformance]

Was refering to Our equil length set-up and just surprised after all this time that we seem to be the Only ones that stuck with and improved it all the way to this power level.

I remember reading a thread somewhere (years ago) where they were discussing exactly what we did and decided that it would be too hard to balance or some thing like that and wrote off the idea! lol

All I could think was, damn, that's typical TD/TM thinking right there, argue and use all your engineering degrees to the absolute (verbal) failure of something and don't even give it a try! lol

You say "our" and everyone's comments are in response to "our cars/community" cuz our cars have the equal length... but after this post, it sound more like your "our" means your shop, and your car having a custom u-joint less I-shaft. Cool. pics?

After I snapped my u-joint in 2004, I remember discussions about why the u-joint was there (production tolerances and misalignment allowance) and that with proper alignment the u-joint would not be needed.


JT I've seen an aftermarket seal for the left side that had a support bearing built in


Here is an updated link the the combination bearing/seal:
http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/Chrysler_FWD_axle_stabalizer_w_bearing_and_seal_p/609-032125lrb.htm

Interesting! Anyone try one?

[ATaylorRacing]

Old Matchbox never broke an axle, even when it ran 1.7 short times and high 13s in the 1/4, but my trouble was breaking 5 speed transmissions....even ones from turbo cars. Only 11 of them in 100,000 miles! Pit Bull (05 SRT4) broke both stock axles at just past 75,000 miles, just as my wrench said it would. I replaced them with Gator axles rated at 500 hp and broke one the next race out. I have DSS Level 5s in it for the last 3 years, but have not raced it more than 3 times a year since that because the 95 low powered Neon runs so much more consistant and makes a ton more money....but NOT fun compared to the Pit Bull! The Pit might have 335 hp too.

[roachjuice]

I need axles bad, want to run it more this year!

Vids from Monster...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsVcvizZees


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFuwylmmnn0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7NtIIdneOA

GEEZUS!!!!! Fukin movin!!!!

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks for posting the pic. interesting, so how do you make sure it is aligned? or its just not too sensitive? I cant recall seing it but as busy as stuff has been lately i can't recall what i saw a week ago...

[Aries_Turbo]

slide it up, slide it down, slide it left, slide it right, put it in the middle of all those measurements and tighten the retainer bolts. :)

Brian

[turbovanman²]

Here is an updated link the the combination bearing/seal:
http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/Chrysler_FWD_axle_stabalizer_w_bearing_and_seal_p/609-032125lrb.htm

Great fix for thrifty customers, :nod:


You say "our" and everyone's comments are in response to "our cars/community" cuz our cars have the equal length... but after this post, it sound more like your "our" means your shop, and your car having a custom u-joint less I-shaft. Cool. pics?

After I snapped my u-joint in 2004, I remember discussions about why the u-joint was there (production tolerances and misalignment allowance) and that with proper alignment the u-joint would not be needed.





Interesting! Anyone try one?

I used to use them on customer cars, as they didn't want to fix it properly so I'd use those with no warranty. Worked great except the metal floating around the trans didn't help much down the road, :lol:

I don't know why Dodge used a u-joint? Laziness to have it properly aligned? No other manufacter uses a u-joint, the shaft slides in and you tighten the bracket down. Some have dowels, others like GM, you just tighten the bolts.

[turbovanman²]

BTW, the picture you posted says "Shelby cooling mod"? :confused: so does that mean when it cracks the block, the coolant leaks out and that's the new cooling system mod? :D

I've been lucky, never broken an axle yet, just worn out U-joints.

[BadAssPerformance]

Ya, + it was years ago. Now, I remember because I always feel like I'm force feeding ppl this info and they still aren't interested! lol

Quick search and this is the first thread I found http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?28131-Upgrade-axles-and-What/page3&highlight=half+shaft


OK, I remember that thread, but must have missed/overlooked that pic. Good that it aligns well. Like you said tho, if someone didn't do it right, then there could be issues, which is prolly wy Chrysler went with the u-joint.

I went to DSS after fall '04 when I broke 2 passenger side axles back to back. The first one was the inner CV splines going into the intermediate shaft, and the second was the u-joint/intermediate shaft. As cool as I think your solid i-shaft is for axle to trans alignment, it still doesnt help the axle breaking at the splines going into the i-shaft :(

And at this point I would have to fab something up to go back to unequal. Here's hoping it was a HT issue, LOL


Some say you save something like 28lbs! :eyebrows:

Not sure what your solid one weighs but a stocker including bracket is far from 28 lbs heavier than a long axle... well at least a DSS long axle

[BadAssPerformance]

Pass side with equal length saves trans oil too! LOL!



Remember that game they played on kids shows before affirmative action? "Which one doesn't look like the other?"

41827

Every axle broke in the Z the past 4 years... Left to Right 1 to 5

1 - New Saginaw Pass Side broke in intermediate shaft - Nov 2004
2 - DSS Driver Side (200+ passes, and the Pass Side didn't break! But they rebuilt both inners like I asked them to) - Oct 2011
3-5 - Snap Crackle and Pop, all DSS Pass Sides - July-Sept 2012

Hoping its a HT issue....

[Reaper1]

Pass side with equal length saves trans oil too! LOL!



Remember that game they played on kids shows before affirmative action? "Which one doesn't look like the other?"

41827

Every axle broke in the Z the past 4 years... Left to Right 1 to 5

1 - New Saginaw Pass Side broke in intermediate shaft - Nov 2004
2 - DSS Driver Side (200+ passes, and the Pass Side didn't break! But they rebuilt both inners like I asked them to) - Oct 2011
3-5 - Snap Crackle and Pop, all DSS Pass Sides - July-Sept 2012

Hoping its a HT issue....

The first 2 on the left are from fatigue, I'm 99% sure of that. The next 2 are probably a combination of heat treatment and stress riser at the end of the spline. The last one...That one is strange. It is AFTER the spline! For that to happen in that fashion at that spot there had to have been a stress riser at that point, like a machining mark or something. Heat treatment could have had a hand in it for sure, but for it to happen there, something else was going on.

I wish we could do some real failure analysis. I'd like to section the failure point and put it under a microscope to look for stress cracks as how the grain is. I think that might tell a lot!

It also might be a good idea to invest in some UV dye so you can inspect your axles for microcracks after each race session. It could be an inexpensive way to be able to keep racing each time out without wondering if an axle is on the verge of failure. Of course that doesn't mean it won't fail, it's just a preventative measure....like changing your oil.

[Pat]

The first 2 on the left are from fatigue, I'm 99% sure of that. The next 2 are probably a combination of heat treatment and stress riser at the end of the spline. The last one...That one is strange. It is AFTER the spline! For that to happen in that fashion at that spot there had to have been a stress riser at that point, like a machining mark or something. Heat treatment could have had a hand in it for sure, but for it to happen there, something else was going on.

I wish we could do some real failure analysis. I'd like to section the failure point and put it under a microscope to look for stress cracks as how the grain is. I think that might tell a lot!

It also might be a good idea to invest in some UV dye so you can inspect your axles for microcracks after each race session. It could be an inexpensive way to be able to keep racing each time out without wondering if an axle is on the verge of failure. Of course that doesn't mean it won't fail, it's just a preventative measure....like changing your oil.

Not to hijack, but what do you make of these? Two broken up the shaft are stock Mopar pieces, one that broke at the splines was an aftermarket. It's the two mopar pieces that have left me a bit puzzled. I've snapped a few at the splines, but never up the shaft like that in the trans. All three happened in the Aries, on the drivers side, within about 20 passes total for the three of them.

To keep this on topic, JT and I have been comparing notes on our axle issues lately. :-)

41894

[Reaper1]

Not to hijack, but what do you make of these? Two broken up the shaft are stock Mopar pieces, one that broke at the splines was an aftermarket. It's the two mopar pieces that have left me a bit puzzled. I've snapped a few at the splines, but never up the shaft like that in the trans. All three happened in the Aries, on the drivers side, within about 20 passes total for the three of them.

To keep this on topic, JT and I have been comparing notes on our axle issues lately. :-)

41894

The one on the right is the a-typical stress-riser failure at the end of the splines. The other two...I wonder, is that where the seal rides where they snapped? If so, I'd almost be willing to bet that the seal wore a groove in them and caused a stress riser. If not, then my other thought would be possibly a bending force was applied to the shaft somehow causing overstress at peak torque. I forget, is there a support bushing on the driver's side like there is on the passenger side of the transmission? If not, then I wonder if there is wheel movement fore and aft during acceleration? (I know you mentioned you questioned how well the bushings are holding up after being beat on for something like 8 years).

I want to point out that I'm not a professional failure analysis engineer, so I might be off in my interpretation of what I'm seeing. I'm basing my opinions on what I learned while earning my degree and what I've read on those websites I posted up on the page before (I think is where they are). I'm open to any, and all other opinions and I do not consider myself to be a true *expert*. I just like looking at broken stuff and figuring out how and why it broke! :D

[BadAssPerformance]

The first 2 on the left are from fatigue, I'm 99% sure of that.

They also look a little ductile, no? #2 for sure, but even #1 twisted alittle. If you zoom in on the pic of teh two from a couple weeks ago, the DS ones started to twist and the pass side just snapped...

[Pat]

The one on the right is the a-typical stress-riser failure at the end of the splines. The other two...I wonder, is that where the seal rides where they snapped? If so, I'd almost be willing to bet that the seal wore a groove in them and caused a stress riser. If not, then my other thought would be possibly a bending force was applied to the shaft somehow causing overstress at peak torque. I forget, is there a support bushing on the driver's side like there is on the passenger side of the transmission? If not, then I wonder if there is wheel movement fore and aft during acceleration? (I know you mentioned you questioned how well the bushings are holding up after being beat on for something like 8 years).

I want to point out that I'm not a professional failure analysis engineer, so I might be off in my interpretation of what I'm seeing. I'm basing my opinions on what I learned while earning my degree and what I've read on those websites I posted up on the page before (I think is where they are). I'm open to any, and all other opinions and I do not consider myself to be a true *expert*. I just like looking at broken stuff and figuring out how and why it broke! :D

I am dropping the trans out to inspect and willl be going through the front end. I too suspect some sort of side loading/bending force that is snapping them. The two even broke in the same place....very odd.

Oh, and its not the seal surface. I will measure later, but the stub that was left in the trance was about 1.5" in from the seal IIRC.

---------- Post added at 10:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 PM ----------


Damn, if I ever break one in the trans I want it to break like Pat's two! I've heard that they can be a real Beotch to get out when they break at the splines.

Although, Pat, when they broke further up the shaft like that, was there worse carnage from the axle breaking loose and flying around? (I'm assuming that's what happened)

One thing nice about them breaking at the spline...........no carnage, just spins and goes no where :)

---------- Post added at 06:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:08 PM ----------



I don know.................JT slammed me pretty hard when I mentioned checking my axles after a race for this very purpose. Said that's why he pays the Big bucks, so he doesn't have to!

Wait a second, maybe that's all changed now................JT? :)

No other carnage thankfully. Everything stayed in place?

[bakes]

JT what are you cv shaft angles normally loaded and what you think they are like on launch???

[BadAssPerformance]

Damn, if I ever break one in the trans I want it to break like Pat's two! I've heard that they can be a real Beotch to get out when they break at the splines.

Breaking in the diff, I pull both axles and just push it out from the other side. The #1 pictured above that broke inside the intermediate shaft was a PITA I had to drill-tap-slide-hammer it out :(


One thing nice about them breaking at the spline...........no carnage, just spins and goes no where :)

very true!


I don know.................JT slammed me pretty hard when I mentioned checking my axles after a race for this very purpose. Said that's why he pays the Big bucks, so he doesn't have to!

Wait a second, maybe that's all changed now................JT? :)

Thin skin? Don't think it was close to a slam, more "to each his own" but yes, I would rather have CM axles than check every run.


I am dropping the trans out to inspect and willl be going through the front end. I too suspect some sort of side loading/bending force that is snapping them. The two even broke in the same place....very odd.

Oh, and its not the seal surface. I will measure later, but the stub that was left in the trance was about 1.5" in from the seal IIRC.

In from the seal is the slinger then the ID of the tailshaft extension housing?


JT what are you cv shaft angles normally loaded and what you think they are like on launch???

Was 5° at rest with the old stub strut LCAs, doubt the dual pivot LCA setup chanegd that. On launch I am sure it used to be worse than now, but IIR (need to find notes) at full rebound it was only ~10° under the ~14° limit

A couple 38lb boxes arrived today :)

41910

[BadAssPerformance]

OK, cheap shot! Sorry bro, couldn't help myself..............:o

I know yer messin man, it's cool.. But I also will help you get DSS axles if you ever want them too LOL

[BadAssPerformance]

Don't think you can do that with a quaife. There is a solid center that divides the axles. Can't see through to the other side :(

Interesting... with the OBX just need a 10" long 3/8" drive extension thru the center washers

Opened the boxes up and all 4 inners have been replaced. I'll get some pics of the new axle ends before putting them in. Need to compare to pics of previous sets, they almost look like they took a pass and cleaned up the shaft from the splines up the shaft an inch or two.

---------- Post added at 10:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 PM ----------


Cool, now do me a favour and weigh that long shaft so I can comparo to my equil length :)

I'll see what I can do, I dont have a good scale here tho and every time its near a shipping scale, its missing the end, LOL! Shipping weight for the pair in the box is just under 38lb

[black86glhs]

Don't think you can do that with a quaife. There is a solid center that divides the axles. Can't see through to the other side :( Just drill a small hole through it silly!!!!:D

[Reaper1]

I'm not 100%, but I don't think the Quaife is *exactly* the same as the OBX internally. Plus I know I'd have a hard time drilling a hole in a $1200 diff that has a lifetime warranty as long as it's not modded!

[black86glhs]

I'm not 100%, but I don't think the Quaife is *exactly* the same as the OBX internally. Plus I know I'd have a hard time drilling a hole in a $1200 diff that has a lifetime warranty as long as it's not modded!Just tell them it came that way. You guys need to stop sweating the details!;)

[Pat]

Nice, so even when they break that far along the shaft, they still stay/ spin in the seal?

Mine did, but the car was not rolling more than 1 mph when either popped. One happened at the line and the car barely moved, the other broke during the burnout just barely as the car started to pull forward.

JT- When I get a few minutes, I'll go out with the stubs and slide them into a trans and see exactly where they're breaking in relation to the diff/trans.

[Reaper1]

Pat, can you take pics when you do that and post them?

[Reeves]

I'm not 100%, but I don't think the Quaife is *exactly* the same as the OBX internally. Plus I know I'd have a hard time drilling a hole in a $1200 diff that has a lifetime warranty as long as it's not modded!

The OBX has one less "pinion" gear (for lack of a better term) than does the Quaife.

The Quaife is closed off in the middle.....no way to push an axle out from the other side.

[BadAssPerformance]

lol! I'm pretty sure Reaper ment after an entire race wknd, Not after every individual Race/Run! As did I.

Athough, you have been removing the entire trans after almost every race wknd lately anywho, so how hard is it to just stare at your splines? They're sitting right there! :lol: :p

How's that for thin skin..............Leatherback!!!!!:p:p:p

Oops, did it again............:(

LOL, yeah, the old trans was patched together with worn out used junk, living on "borrowed hopes and dreams", but the funny thing is almost every time I had it apart, it never came out of the car, nor did the axles! Awesome how these trans' can be serviced in vehicle :nod: Now the couple times the trans actually came out, yep I did take a look at them :thumb:

[Reaper1]

Yeah, I meant after the event, not every race! LOL

[black86glhs]

lol, yeah, the old trans was patched together with worn out used junk, living on "borrowed hopes and dreams", but the funny thing is almost every time i had it apart, it never came out of the car, nor did the axles! Awesome how these trans' can be serviced in vehicle :nod: Now the couple times the trans actually came out, yep i did take a look at them :thumb:burn!!! Lol

[black86glhs]

Yeah, it was a stretch to call it a burn, but what can you do....LOL.

[moparman76_69]

Yeah, it was a stretch to call it a burn, but what can you do....LOL.


um.. not call it a burn?

[black86glhs]

um.. not call it a burn?George, that would make too much sense.:p

[moparman76_69]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PhGmRPxw6W8/UEC9EVVK29I/AAAAAAAAAKc/D_6t59mWBDs/s1600/houseofnonsense.jpg


/threadjack

[BadAssPerformance]

Back on topic... won't have time to put the axles in till Saturday, will get pics.

[BadAssPerformance]

Need to get online here for more updates...

Went to track Sunday with the Chicagoland chapter outing.

Being a bracket event the track was set to hook pretty well.

1st pass, left hard but spun and bounced some, 10.600 @ 139.XX (post time slip data later)

2nd pass, dead hook - SNAP! :(

Before taking the axle out of the trans, I noticed there was some play between the center bar of the axle and the tripod joint... wondering if thats part of the problem?

[Clay]

Can you legally change your name to Ken??

We can give you Ken's nick name then.... Bro-Ken.

then we gotta come up with something else for Ken....

[Reaper1]

Did it break in the same place? Man, I can only imagine how frustrating it is on your own car....I'm frustrated at the issue and it's not even my car, funds, or time!!

Has there been anyone else to push these cars to go this fast on a 5-speed with the race weight you have, JT? If not, then it may just be that the limit has been found for the design and material with this set-up.

Maybe a change in launch strategy could help? I know a carbon/carbon clutch would be helpful, but $4000 isn't!! LOL

[Shadow]

JT, how are you coming off the clutch pedal? (ie. Snapping it off or dumping it?)

The only axle I sheared first time out on the solid hub disc I got exited and BTTW I dumped the clutch and Bam, instant hook and bye bye axle.

Since then I have developed a very lazy left foot. I leave early on the last yellow and casually (not riding) release the clutch. Seems to make all the difference in the Charger.

[cordes]

Can you legally change your name to Ken??

We can give you Ken's nick name then.... Bro-Ken.

then we gotta come up with something else for Ken....


I'm pretty sure we have that covered!

[csxtra]

Clay, you ought to dedicate the gif in your sig to JT: :bolt:
http://www.claysmopars.com/ohhschnap.gif

JT, sorry to hear that your axle woes continue, I hope you get it figured out soon.

Warren

[turbovanman²]

Damn, :(

[BadAssPerformance]

Can you legally change your name to Ken??

We can give you Ken's nick name then.... Bro-Ken.

then we gotta come up with something else for Ken....

Crap thats it, my middle name is Ken! :(


Did it break in the same place? Man, I can only imagine how frustrating it is on your own car....I'm frustrated at the issue and it's not even my car, funds, or time!!

Has there been anyone else to push these cars to go this fast on a 5-speed with the race weight you have, JT? If not, then it may just be that the limit has been found for the design and material with this set-up.

Maybe a change in launch strategy could help? I know a carbon/carbon clutch would be helpful, but $4000 isn't!! LOL

Same spot. failure sureface looks a little more coarse and not as smooth as the last few. One thing different on thsi one is that I moved the axle around trying to find if there was any play between the axle and tailshaft housing and did not see any there but notices a lot between the center bar and tripod joint so maybe this one went there first or at the same time


JT, how are you coming off the clutch pedal? (ie. Snapping it off or dumping it?)

The only axle I sheared first time out on the solid hub disc I got exited and BTTW I dumped the clutch and Bam, instant hook and bye bye axle.

Since then I have developed a very lazy left foot. I leave early on the last yellow and casually (not riding) release the clutch. Seems to make all the difference in the Charger.

I've never side-stepped or dumped a clutch in any car... but I do rather pull the clutch foot off the floor rather quickly. This is part so the clutch engages before the RPM go too much higher than the 5200RPM 2-step and hit even harder.

Next trip out I'll play w/o the 2-step to see if it holds together longer

[BadAssPerformance]

Runs fromlast weekend:

Run #1. 2-step, spin

R/T: 0.094
60': 1.760
330: 4.716
1/8 ET: 7.022
1/8 mph: 109.52
1000': 8.972
1/4 ET: 10.600
1/4 mph:139.66

Run #2. 2-step, SNAP

Was a REALLY sticky track too... Decided to not put the backup axles in and to take a better look at home.

The inner CV had some visible play so maybe the tripod joint on that axle has issues? Put in the other set and it seems tight.

[22shelby]

giver another go tomorrow???

[Shadow]

Runs fromlast weekend:

Run #1. 2-step, spin

R/T: 0.094
60': 1.760
330: 4.716
1/8 ET: 7.022
1/8 mph: 109.52
1000': 8.972
1/4 ET: 10.600
1/4 mph:139.66

Run #2. 2-step, SNAP

Was a REALLY sticky track too... Decided to not put the backup axles in and to take a better look at home.

The inner CV had some visible play so maybe the tripod joint on that axle has issues? Put in the other set and it seems tight.

JT, isn't your best 330' 4.62? Damn, your right there if you can get a good hook and Not break an axle you would have a new PB before year end!

[BadAssPerformance]

giver another go tomorrow???

Yep!


JT, isn't your best 330' 4.62? Damn, your right there if you can get a good hook and Not break an axle you would have a new PB before year end!

Ya a 4.65 I think... from the only pass it made at SDAC this year 10.56 run

Tomorrow looks like the last chance for 2012, cool air but prolly low traction so prolly not dead hook but maybe not break axle? *knocks on wood* LOL...

[Shadow]

Good luck bro! I think if you could put a good chunk of it together one one solid run you could see a 10.4X. (fingers x'd) :)

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks, here's hoping! LOL!

*fingers crossed*

[BadAssPerformance]

Yesterday's runs...

No 2-step, or traction, wheel hop in 1st with some spinning and skating, axles lived

Run #1

R/T: 0.169
60': 1.933
330: 4.923
1/8 ET: 7.237
1/8 mph: 109.39
1000': 9.207
1/4 ET: 10.853
1/4 mph: 137.67

Run #2 - missed 2nd

R/T: 0.001 (not bad...)
60': 1.916
330: 5.175
1/8 ET: 7.603
1/8 mph: 105.74
1000': 9.614
1/4 ET: 11.292
1/4 mph: 135.44

Run #3 - cut out in 4th :(

R/T: 0.221
60': 1.835
330: 4.783
1/8 ET: 7.077
1/8 mph: 109.95
1000': 9.068
1/4 ET: 10.755
1/4 mph: 133.53

Run #4 - cut out in 4th :(

R/T: 0.073
60': 1.947
330: 4.950
1/8 ET: 7.281
1/8 mph: 108.91
1000': 9.275
1/4 ET: 10.959
1/4 mph: 134.48

[cordes]

Pretty nice MPH on that first run and you didn't break anything. That's a pretty good day compared to what's been the norm as of late. Nice work.

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks man. Was fun to get it out with the rest of the gang one more time.

Not sure why it's breaking up again, gotta tear into it this winter to check it all out.

[Shadow]

Was this at the same track? Bummer you couldn't get traction as there's not much to go on when that happens. Basically you know that the axles live when you don't cut 1.7x 60's :(

[Ondonti]

Haved you watched some of the Busher Evo videos. I know quite a few of those high 8 low 9 evos look like they crawl the first few feet but still get wicket 60's. A lotta clutch slip taking up lash before fully letting things go.

I am a fan of staging brakes even though they will make launching a whole new ballgame. That allows you to already be slipping the clutch so you don't have to "get it just right" each pass. Trying to get it just right leads to leaving too soft, too hard, etc.

[turbovanman²]

Haved you watched some of the Busher Evo videos. I know quite a few of those high 8 low 9 evos look like they crawl the first few feet but still get wicket 60's. A lotta clutch slip taking up lash before fully letting things go.

I am a fan of staging brakes even though they will make launching a whole new ballgame. That allows you to already be slipping the clutch so you don't have to "get it just right" each pass. Trying to get it just right leads to leaving too soft, too hard, etc.

Same kinda deal with SMP, he'd come out softly then BAM, off he goes.

[BadAssPerformance]

As of today... I have had the Z for 19 years :love:

[cordes]

As of today... I have had the Z for 19 years :love:

Happy anniversary JT!

[Rampage16V]

Sweet. I've had my rampage since 92 but don't remember the date :-)

[shadow88]

I think this is a form or Stockholm Syndrome.

[168glhs1986]

As of today... I have had the Z for 19 years :love:

For this years anniversary she will give you 9's.

[turboshad]

Wow, you're old. ;)

[omni_840]

^LOL

Congrats! It's amazing that you remember the exact date

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL, thanks guys. Dean, you got me beat! Mike I hope you're right! DJ, I thought you were older? LOL ;) Yeah, I remember the date cuz the day I got it I heard one of those "who was born on this day" things and it is Paul Newman and Eddie Van Halen's birthday also :rockon: and later learned that the original episode of the Dukes of Hazzard aired today in 1979... Yeee Haaaaw!

[fishcleaner]

Who buys a car in the middle of winter? Don't feel old for having a car for 19 years, I have a pet corn snake that is 32.

[ohiorob]

Dragged my car home with a chain from a junkyard in the fall of 1995.

[Irocelectric93]

Ah happy one day late anniversary

[168glhs1986]

Jt we need a how when where why and what thread about how we became the owner of our tutbor mopar / shelby dodge.

I think it would be fitting if you were to start it.

[Bkdavill]

Looks great. Engine bay is clean...

[168glhs1986]

Looks great. Engine bay is clean...

What a random first post! Welcome to the forums.

[BadAssPerformance]

Who buys a car in the middle of winter? Don't feel old for having a car for 19 years, I have a pet corn snake that is 32.

LOL, that was the last time it saw winter roads! Had to jump on it cuz it was too cheap to wait. Wow, thats a long pet to have, how long do thsoe live?

I got a plan... live life, stay young, never feel old :rockon:


Dragged my car home with a chain from a junkyard in the fall of 1995.

I give you TONS of credit for saving it and building it into such a beautiful car!


Ah happy one day late anniversary

Thanks!


Jt we need a how when where why and what thread about how we became the owner of our tutbor mopar / shelby dodge.

I think it would be fitting if you were to start it.

Thanks, great idea! Link here:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?69845-The-quot-How-I-got-into-Shelby-Dodges-Turbo-Mopars-quot-thread!&p=975532#post975532


Looks great. Engine bay is clean...

Thanks, welcome to the forum!

[black86glhs]

Of course it is clean. Every time he raced it at the end of last year it broke something. All the slung oil and grease had to be washed out!!!!!! LOL:D


J/K....It does look good.:nod:

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL, yeah, it was broke more times than washed last year :( hoping for better this year!

[BadAssPerformance]

Played with making a video... thanks to 22Shelby for driving his Lancer Shelby alongside and to DodgeShadowChik for filming!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijZGHdRBOt8

[turbovanman²]

Congrats, a run without breaking, :D

[ShelGame]

Congrats, a run without breaking, :D

You're just jealous...

[BadAssPerformance]

Congrats, a run without breaking, :D

LOL, thanks, lack of traction saves parts...

[turbovanman²]

You're just jealous...

LOL, your right, :(



LOL, thanks, lack of traction saves parts...

Nice, lol, :nod:

[turboshad]

You've been pretty quiet lately JT. Any plans for this coming season?

[BadAssPerformance]

You've been pretty quiet lately JT. Any plans for this coming season?

Adamantium axles! :D

LOL, seriously tho, not too much

[BadAssPerformance]

...damn, guess I need to get a fuel level sender for the cell now LOL

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?70460-Drag-Week-2013

[BadAssPerformance]

Short list
-fix axle breakage
-fix speed not working
-fuel level sender & guage
-develop 93 octane cal
-install parking/e-brake

[cordes]

Short list
-fix axle breakage
-fix speed not working
-fuel level sender & guage
-develop 93 octane cal
-install parking/e-brake

Is it a must that you have an E brake due to rules?

[c2xejk]

No rule that requires you to have an e-brake. Just tends to be easier to do a burn-out if you have a e-brake to lock-up the rear wheels. :)

[85glht]

Short list
-develop 93 octane cal

Is that fuel a requirement for the Hot Rod Drag Tour?

[Pat]

Is that fuel a requirement for the Hot Rod Drag Tour?

No, but its a hell of a easier! I am doing the same...building/setting up for pump gas.

[c2xejk]

You can run whatever fuel you want. There are a few guys that run pump gas on the street and e85 at the track. They have two seperate tanks.

I will probably be running alcohol injection to boost octane at the track.