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View Full Version : What ratio should we be using



Xtrempickup
10-31-2007, 06:26 PM
I was reading in Turbo Magazine today this months issue they had a write up about Water and water/Methanol mix injection. it says running plain water is good for cooling, but running a 30-40% mix methanol and water would be good for addtional cooling and cheap hp, better economy, the ability to run cheaper gas, etc. It says anything over 30%-40% water to methanol is deterimental and more likely to cause detination. I'm running 75% alki to 25% water mix in my car. I talked to other ppl, some running full 100% methanol. is there any truth to the ratio suggestion? is less alcohol to more water better than a higher amount of alcohol to less water? im trying to figure out what would be more beneficial in my R/T. right now its a M7 Nozzle with 75/25 alki to water mix pumping in and i dont notice any issues, but was wondering water other ppl are doing and see with 50/50 and if anybody is running more water in their mix.

DevilsOwn
11-29-2007, 05:41 PM
50/50 mix is what we feel is best to run.

Destro
11-29-2007, 07:34 PM
Not to go against devils own because this is advice from a competitor company. This is more for discussion instead of argument.

I talk with the guys over at snow pretty frequently and they would reccomend that you run a 49 to 51 percent methanol to water. When you start to get up there lets say running at 85% methanol it then starts to becomes a secondary fuel.

WVRampage
11-29-2007, 08:05 PM
I thinking Reeves runs strait meth in his omni.

contraption22
11-29-2007, 08:19 PM
I thinking Reeves runs strait meth in his omni.


I think that is largely because he does not have enough fuel system capacity to support the power he is making.

Dave
04-15-2008, 09:06 PM
I run pure race alcohol. Over the 50/50 mix I feel straight alky gives the ability to run more timing and boost due to the octane rating (I forget what alky is measured as, but ethanol is 113 octane), a longer, more complete combustion stroke (it burns slower), and it does not inhibit combustion as water does. Yes, water steams, carries heat, when it's inside the combustion chamber, but it does not combust. Steam does, under certain pressures, but water injection is just that, water, not steam.

I've watched my wideband on back to back results between winter mix washer fluid and straight VP Racing alky. The alky gave me the ability to safely run up to 25psi on pump gas whereas the washer fluid stopped me at 23psi. I was tuning for 11.5 - 11.7:1 on both mixtures.

csxtra
04-15-2008, 09:26 PM
50/50 is for a situation where you can't change your fueling, but you want to run more boost on pump gas. Running a 50/50 mix doesn't change your Air Fuel Ratios, and allows you to run more boost for good increases in power (assuming you have enough fuel system capacity).

However, if you are going for max HP and can tweak your fuel system to take into account that you're spraying alky, going to 100% alky gives you additional fueling + less detonation and more power than 50/50. (because you are not wasting combustion chamber space with water vapor). But, it then becomes a balancing act of gas vs alky, trying to get enough alky to fight off detonation while reducing the amount of gas to keep the AFR in line.

50/50 is simple, 100% requires work.

Yes Reeves is running 100% alky, but that is also on top of race gas only. Like Mike said, he mainly uses it for extra fueling along with the detonation and cooling benefits.

Dave
04-15-2008, 10:53 PM
50/50 is for a situation where you can't change your fueling, but you want to run more boost on pump gas. Running a 50/50 mix doesn't change your Air Fuel Ratios, and allows you to run more boost for good increases in power (assuming you have enough fuel system capacity).

However, if you are going for max HP and can tweak your fuel system to take into account that you're spraying alky, going to 100% alky gives you additional fueling + less detonation and more power than 50/50. (because you are not wasting combustion chamber space with water vapor). But, it then becomes a balancing act of gas vs alky, trying to get enough alky to fight off detonation while reducing the amount of gas to keep the AFR in line.

50/50 is simple, 100% requires work.

Yes Reeves is running 100% alky, but that is also on top of race gas only. Like Mike said, he mainly uses it for extra fueling along with the detonation and cooling benefits.

Yah, f&ck it I just run as much alky as possible as soon as possible. :thumb:

Xtrempickup
04-16-2008, 06:26 PM
i totally run my mix mainly to up the octane when running 93 and because its does a good job of letting me run 23+ lbs, probably if i tuned the fueling closer, i could push a full 30lbs on pump 93 and never have to worry about detonation. i think the 75/25 mix i run is good, it pulls hard when it starts spraying, sorta like a small NOS shot

t3rse
04-21-2008, 04:07 PM
I run pure race alcohol. Over the 50/50 mix I feel straight alky gives the ability to run more timing and boost due to the octane rating (I forget what alky is measured as, but ethanol is 113 octane), a longer, more complete combustion stroke (it burns slower), and it does not inhibit combustion as water does. Yes, water steams, carries heat, when it's inside the combustion chamber, but it does not combust. Steam does, under certain pressures, but water injection is just that, water, not steam.

You have quite a few semantic errors here. I know you know this, but alky is an abbreviation for alcohol, a family that contains both ethanol and methanol. When using alky like you are here, the connotation would imply nitromethane, which i would not advise using in your sprayer.

The combustion stroke is a function of piston travel and engine speed.

When using over 50%, you are adding a secondary fuel which changes the stoichiometric point, which means you have to tune richer than you would for just race gas.

The reason you use a water alcohol mix is not to burn it as fuel, but the water-alcohol solution is better at absorbing heat than either material alone.

Speedeuphoria
04-22-2008, 10:00 PM
The reasons people use W/I and various mixes depends on the application

shelbymopar89
06-25-2008, 09:47 AM
I have seached a lot of other forums (turbobuick) for one, a lot of them reccomend walmart windshield washer fluid, I believe they said it was a 51% Eth and 49% dist water mix. They did say to use only the blue one, not any with the anti-icing in it. Don't quote me on the numbers but it is what I am running.

Tony Hanna
06-25-2008, 12:48 PM
I used pure methanol (Edge brand racing alcohol) in my old Daytona on pump gas with stock injectors/2 bar electronics for all the additional fuelling up to 28-30 psi. It worked great for running big boost on absolutely no budget but was a bit of a pita to tune.

RoadWarrior222
06-25-2008, 01:08 PM
Just wondering, anyone notice more power out of E10 than straight gas when using pump gas and sprayed methanol?