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View Full Version : Calling all 2.5L T2 owners !



WOP'R
02-12-2006, 11:16 PM
I have just installed a T2 Garrett on my 2.5L 90' Shadow and am having some boost issues. Here's my setup:

2.5 5spd
T2 Garrett
Large Adj. W/G Acctuator
20+ injectors
SRT4 intercooler
ported exhaust mani, 2.5" DP -> 3" Cat Back
Vaccum Block on Intake

I cleaned the vaccum lines using the vaccum block and cant seem to get it running right. I triple checked the vaccum set up and everything is hooked up right.

Could all of those that have the same setup as me post how you went about running your vaccum lines, and how you are controlling your boost. Details please (are you using any stock restrictors, etc?)

Also, any boost creeping issues? and how did u deal with?

iTurbo
02-13-2006, 12:00 AM
I have a "2.5L TII" in my Omni GLH Turbo.

Quick list of specs:
'89 2.5L TI shortblock
Stock TII head/cam/manifolds
Rebuilt TII turbocharger w/quick spool option from TurbosUnleashed
Modified '89 SMEC and harness from '89 turbo/auto Caravan
3" exhaust - no cat, straight through muffler
NPR intercooler

I also have a vacuum distribution manifold, which is bolted directly to the intake manifold with NPT fittings above the fuel rail. It is a very simplified setup with vacuum lines going directly to the fuel pressure regulator, MAP solenoid, BOV, and vac/boost gauge. The only other vacuum line at all is the brake booster which still uses the stock line on the back side of the intake. Car has always run great this way.

For boost control, I'm using a grainger valve which is referenced from a nipple on the compressor housing. Boost control seems very solid this way.

turbovanmanČ
02-13-2006, 12:58 AM
You shouldn't need the Mitsu restrictors.

cordes
02-13-2006, 10:10 AM
I have a garrett turbo on my shadow with an SRT4 IC. I run a vac block on the back of my TI intake. I have a vac line going from my vac block to a grainger valve, and then to the WGA.

Exactly what problem are you experiencing with your boost control?

ShelGame
02-13-2006, 11:12 AM
Do you have the WG plumbed T1 or T2 style?

T1 Style = Manifold ---- WG can ---- Solenoid ---- Vent

T2 Style = Manifold ---- Solenoid ---- WG Can


There are much better diagrams than this on Minimopar.net, of course.

If you use the T2 style with a 2.5 T1 computer, the boost won't be controlled properly.

Turbodave
02-13-2006, 01:44 PM
Like Shel-Game said the later TI cars control boost by bleeding pressure off through the solenoid. All the cars I've converted haven't been happy (overboost under load) running of the TI controls and plumbing so I've just stuck with a grainger valve on them and been happy since.

deuce dodge
02-13-2006, 07:01 PM
grainger..

........maybe set up a pressure switch to prevent overboost.

easy

deuce

WOP'R
02-13-2006, 07:39 PM
Like Shel-Game said the later TI cars control boost by bleeding pressure off through the solenoid. All the cars I've converted haven't been happy (overboost under load) running of the TI controls and plumbing so I've just stuck with a grainger valve on them and been happy since.


ok, at this point i am still using the WG solenoid.. how i have it set up right now is :

Accutator --> manifold and I Teed off from this line to the WG solenoid. and with this setup i AM hitting cutout but barely feel any boost.

So did you just disconect the vacuum line from the solenoid and put a plug in it? OR, did you remove the WG solenoid completey ?

What I am going to do next is just plug off the vacuum line to the solenoid and just run a straight vacuum line from WG Acctuator to the manifold.

Will let you know what happens in an hour.

WOP'R
02-13-2006, 08:21 PM
One hour later... heres the second way i just set up, and I am still hitting cuttout and barely feel any boost :

I just did a straight vacuum line from the WG Acctuator --> Manifold = overboost :(


So, my question now is what are the detailed configurations of the WG Solenoid and the Purge Solenoid ?
How I have these solenoids with this most recent set up are as follows from the top of each solenoid (when hovering over the engine bay) to bottom of the solenoid:

WG Solenoid: Pulgged Off, Pulgged Off, Vent

Pruge Solenoid: Manifold, Vapor Canister, Vent

***Remember that these are still the original T1 1990 Solenoids and T1 computer***

Why am I still hitting cut out !!??

cordes
02-13-2006, 08:23 PM
If you have a line directly from the manifold to the WGA, and hitting overboost, there is a problem with the line or the WGA.

shelbyplaya
02-13-2006, 08:56 PM
If you have a line directly from the manifold to the WGA, and hitting overboost, there is a problem with the line or the WGA.
not true. i hit over boost with my 2.5l and s60 turbo, my exhaust is open 2.5" no cat. so theres little back pressure to open it.



just get a g-valve hooked up and that will solve everything!

or if you just wanna test your WG hook it up directley to the small barb on the TB, you shoudlent see more then a cuple PSI of boost. then you know the WG is working fine.

Mike M
02-13-2006, 09:17 PM
Ray, what are you smokin' today. LOL. Anyways, if it is hitting overboost plugged in directly, then the g-valve won't make any difference, it might make matters worse. On my lebaron I'm running a 2.5 t-1 engine, a t-2 garrett with the stock t-2 rad/cooler, and 2.5" side exit with a little resonator, and no issues. I would probably start with checking the actuator. it could be stuck closed, or just not opening enough to control boost. But thats the only thing that I could see going wrong.

Steve Z
aka Gold Lebaron

WOP'R
02-13-2006, 09:20 PM
If you have a line directly from the manifold to the WGA, and hitting overboost, there is a problem with the line or the WGA.


i changed the line 4 times. can you please tell me what you did with your soleniods? how did you hook them up and what did you plug off. LETS FIGURE THIS OUT FIRST!!!!!



regarding the WG, i have the adjustable unit from TU and i set it up as shown here http://www.turbododge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106302&highlight=%22adjustable+wastegate%22

does this wastegate have a stronger spring than stock and thus having a increased boost setting?

WOP'R
02-13-2006, 09:21 PM
Ray, what are you smokin' today. LOL. Anyways, if it is hitting overboost plugged in directly, then the g-valve won't make any difference, it might make matters worse. On my lebaron I'm running a 2.5 t-1 engine, a t-2 garrett with the stock t-2 rad/cooler, and 2.5" side exit with a little resonator, and no issues. I would probably start with checking the actuator. it could be stuck closed, or just not opening enough to control boost. But thats the only thing that I could see going wrong.

Steve Z
aka Gold Lebaron

could you also please tell me what you did with the soleniods?? in detail please?

cordes
02-13-2006, 10:08 PM
not true. i hit over boost with my 2.5l and s60 turbo, my exhaust is open 2.5" no cat. so theres little back pressure to open it.



You must have one hummer of a high flowing setup to overboost due to creep with a .63 housing and 2.5in. exh. I ran a T2 with a .63 and a 3" cat-less exh with no problems what so ever.

Any who, I am willing to bet that your problem is the adjustbable WGA. If you can't get that figured out the solenoids wont do you any good. Try to lengthen the arm slightly and give it another go with the vac line coming directly from the manifold. Then once you get the boost down to 6-8lbs use shelgame's info to figure out the vac routing. Although I would just use a grainger valve.

WOP'R
02-13-2006, 10:40 PM
But why not deal with the easiest of the 2 possibilities first. The solenoids are much easier to adjust than the WG. I am not sure they are venting when they shouldnt be. If so, then its fixed in 2 seconds. So Please tell me about your solenoid set up, just so we can narrow it down. If the solenoids arent the issue, the I will move to the WG issue (if there is one).

So, PLEASE inform me of your guys' solenoid set ups! which are plugged, which are venting? and what is connected? and did you just eliminate a complete solenoid ? ... pretty please !

butchsuppe
02-14-2006, 12:00 AM
The setup I use is a grainer valve, 5th injector and an ajustable diode see this site for diode http;//www.fwdmopar.com/sites/dennis this diode is totally bitchin, cost about $8. to mike. I,m run 17psi at 12 btc also see the dodge garage for info on 5th injector + grainger valve lol

cordes
02-14-2006, 10:40 AM
But why not deal with the easiest of the 2 possibilities first.

If you can't get the boost to become stabalized with a direct vac line from the manifold to the WGA, all the solenoid setups and messing around you want to do wont help you.

Your problem is with the WGA given that the direct vac line to the WGA from the manifold was good, which is should be since you supposedly tripple checked it.

Once that is done, re-read shelgame's post which will instruct you in how to set up your vac lines going to the solenoid. Once again, most hage just put a grainger in a line coming from the manfold going to the WGA to control boost. It is about the best setup one could get, and you can't beat the price.

WOP'R
02-14-2006, 01:38 PM
i understand what needs to happen with the wastegate solenoid to except the garret, i just wanted to make sure i was right ( i have yet to get an answer on that).

NOW what about the PURGE SOLENOID??

i was hitting over boost because of the wastegate soleniod being hooked up to the intake and "venting".

the purge soleniod is also hooked up to the intake AND it also vents!
i need to know if this soleniod is still supposed to be hooked up to the intake and vent?
i understand this soleniod doesnt control the boost but isnt it now taking pressure away from the wastegate by venting? if it isnt supposed to "vent" then wouldnt that mean i would still hit over boost no matter how I set the adjustable wastegate?

this is why i would like to get the soleniods figured out first:p

cordes
02-14-2006, 04:42 PM
THe purge solenoid only vents when you start up the car I believe, and then it is sending the gas vapors from the charcoal canister to the TB. It should not be an issue.

WOP'R
02-14-2006, 05:20 PM
THe purge solenoid only vents when you start up the car I believe, and then it is sending the gas vapors from the charcoal canister to the TB. It should not be an issue.

thank you! .. now that wasnt like pulling teeth was it? :p

cordes
02-14-2006, 05:26 PM
thank you! .. now that wasnt like pulling teeth was it? :p

In all honesty, I just removed the lines coming off of the canister that go to the solenoid and TB. I just have the line that comes off the hard vent line at the strut tower that connects to the vapor canister, and I ditched the rest. Much neater that way. I noticed no ill effects either.

WOP'R
02-15-2006, 11:54 PM
OK, update!
I disconnected the purge solenoid and the vapor canister from the manifold and im still hitting over boost!

once the engine has time to cool off ill adjust the wastegate.

NOW here is the odd part i have an almost brand new adjustable unit from TU and i set it up as shown here
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/sho...wa stegate%22 (1/4 inch away from the swingvalve) my question now is; do the adjustable unites come with a stronger spring than stock?

THANKS!

iTurbo
02-16-2006, 12:00 AM
Did you have to pull the wastegate rod out of the can to attach it to the flapper valve? Sounds like it might have a little too much preload.

cordes
02-16-2006, 12:03 AM
OK, update!
I disconnected the purge solenoid and the vapor canister from the manifold and im still hitting over boost!

once the engine has time to cool off ill adjust the wastegate.

NOW here is the odd part i have an almost brand new adjustable unit from TU and i set it up as shown here
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/sho...wa stegate%22 (1/4 inch away from the swingvalve) my question now is; do the adjustable unites come with a stronger spring than stock?

THANKS!


I am not sure about that particular one, but I have a large can WGA on my car which wont go lower than 12PSI, so it is a possibility. I think your problem must be the preload of the can. Also, you did cap off the two nipples on the TB when you removed the vapor canister lines right?

WOP'R
02-16-2006, 12:04 AM
Did you have to pull the wastegate rod out of the can to attach it to the flapper valve? Sounds like it might have a little too much preload.

thats what im thinking too, and yes i need to pull the out 1/4 of an inch just like stock. maybe i measured wrong, but ill look into it tomorrow (its dark out and the car has no head lights yet)

WOP'R
02-16-2006, 12:06 AM
I Also, you did cap off the two nipples on the TB when you removed the vapor canister lines right?


haha of course!:thumb:

iTurbo
02-16-2006, 12:28 AM
When I installed the wastegate rods onto my Omni GLH and Shelby Lancer (both stock TII turbo w/ TU 3" swingvalve), I barely pulled the rod out at all; maybe 1/16". No overboost or creeping problems and they spool just fine.

turbovanmanČ
02-16-2006, 02:27 AM
1/4 inch is too much. Try loosening it off. I did the same as iTurbo and no issues.

WOP'R
02-16-2006, 06:59 PM
i extended the arm untill i had a space of 1/16.

took the car out and i hit over boost!!!!

so i extended the arm to the point where i dont need to pull on it to slip it ontop of the flapper valve.

once again i took the car out for a spin and once again i hit over boost!! the best part is i dont feel any boost in any gear!. the car was 3 times faster back when it had a mitsu:mad:

i guess i need to start looking for a stock can?
ANY ideas would be nice

GLHSKEN
02-16-2006, 07:17 PM
What are your codes... 1st thing to check.

It really sounds to me like the timing is off...

WOP'R
02-16-2006, 07:34 PM
no codes just 12 and 55

i dont own a timing gun, but i did time the car via www.thedodgegarage.com

cordes
02-17-2006, 09:09 PM
no codes just 12 and 55

i dont own a timing gun, but i did time the car via www.thedodgegarage.com


Well then you will need to reset your base timing. You need a timing light. Beg borrow or steal one.

Nice work Ken.:thumb:

WOP'R
02-18-2006, 12:18 AM
i thought timing according to the dodgegarage was fine? i guess its just ok to get to point A to B?

cordes
02-18-2006, 12:21 AM
i thought timing according to the dodgegarage was fine? i guess its just ok to get to point A to B?

If it runs OK, sure. However I would most certainly stay out of boost. Lord only knows what the base timing is set at.

I would once again reccomend that point A is your place and point B is the location of the timing light though. A real quick process to avoid lenghty problems.

John B
02-18-2006, 02:49 AM
Maybe I'm missing something in the above posts, but you will hit cut-out around 15 PSI regardless of your grainger setup if you don't have some type of cut-out eliminator for your MAP. I use a grainger type valve in the MAP line that I got from Dawe's Devices. Some people use a diode in the wiring to the MAP. I apologize if this has already been covered.

WOP'R
02-18-2006, 04:49 AM
no worries John B

im not trying to go up to or above 15 psi.

im trying to figure out why i am when i should only be getting 5 psi or so

iTurbo
02-18-2006, 08:59 AM
Are you using a good aftermarket boost gauge to verify it's actually hitting overboost cutout? If you really are hitting overboost, you should also have a code 45 stored. Perhaps the ignition is misfiring when going into boost?

At any rate, I would set the base ignition timing at 10' BTDC and try again.

GLHSKEN
02-18-2006, 09:49 AM
Exactly, A code 45 should be stored for overboost. Cam timing doublecheck and base timing. If you are not showing a 45, it isn't overboost. That's one of the easiest codes to set.

daytonajesse
02-21-2006, 01:08 PM
at this point after all you have tried, either your hitting overboost cause of the WGA not working correctly (arm too short), or your not hitting overboost at all. Since your not feeling boost Im thinking the latter.

Double check cam timing as mentioned, and double check your map and tps are in good order. I had a problem similar before that turned out to be faulty wiring with the asd relay. All those things "*should*" set a code though, except maybe cam timing.

WOP'R
02-23-2006, 12:34 AM
well i was thinking about looking at the timing at this point. So I went down to the local auto shop and they had 2 types of timing guns there. One was analog (turn dial) and the other one was a digital read gun. Both made by the same company (forget who).

The packaging doesnt say much about the guns, but it says that you can adjust timing between 0* to 60*. So that means i can only advance the timing?

Also, the timing guns do not come with instructions and I have never used a timing gun before. Some help on how to would be great.

What is base ignition timing by the way?

turbovanmanČ
02-23-2006, 09:51 PM
The digital ones are easier to read, both are good.

Start the car, unplug coolant sensor-when rad fan kicks on, your good to go.

Hook up the inductive pickup on #1 cylinder, hook the other wires up to the battery. Aim the flashing liight at the window in the trans, your looking for 12 degs. If you get the advance unit, set the dial at 12 deg and then look for zero on the trans. Move distributor to get your desired reading. After your done, plug the coolant sensor back in and your set.

cordes
02-23-2006, 11:24 PM
I would add that if your timing window hath not the numbers under the hash marks, it starts at 0 on the left and increases in 2* increments toward the right.

WOP'R
02-24-2006, 02:34 PM
do i plug the coolant temp sensor back in with the engine running? or do i do it when i turn the engine off? also do i need to unplug the battery to allow the computer to reset?

cordes
02-24-2006, 05:41 PM
do i plug the coolant temp sensor back in with the engine running? or do i do it when i turn the engine off? also do i need to unplug the battery to allow the computer to reset?

I just plug it back in when I am done with the light and the car is still running. I don't disconect the - battery terminal when I am done.

turbovanmanČ
02-24-2006, 05:43 PM
Engine running. The SES light will stay on so just turn off the car and start it back up, light will be gone. It will erase the code after a few ignition key cycles.

WOP'R
02-24-2006, 11:03 PM
alright. I timed the car with the timing gun and found that my timing was way off. I set it to a base of 12* as turbomanvan described, and took it for a boot around the neighbourhood. It idles smoother, runs so much smoother, im also getting 18 on the vac side and it reaches roughly 8psi and I now feel it. I couldn't take it past 3rd gear since the car does not have insurance and its a family neighbourhood.

next step will be to insure it for a day and cruize around for a few hours so i can go past 3rd gear and make sure everything truly runs right, and then add my g-valve and tune it.

Thanks so far to all.. .will let ya know about the run soon.

cordes
02-25-2006, 06:36 PM
alright. I timed the car with the timing gun and found that my timing was way off. I set it to a base of 12* as turbomanvan described, and took it for a boot around the neighbourhood. It idles smoother, runs so much smoother, im also getting 18 on the vac side and it reaches roughly 8psi and I now feel it. I couldn't take it past 3rd gear since the car does not have insurance and its a family neighbourhood.

next step will be to insure it for a day and cruize around for a few hours so i can go past 3rd gear and make sure everything truly runs right, and then add my g-valve and tune it.

Thanks so far to all.. .will let ya know about the run soon.


:amen: