Installed a Wideband, need some help tuning

[Xtrempickup]

I installed an Aem wideband O2 sensor today. my car is a TIII with stage 3 cal, +40s, accufab adj fuel reg,255 walbro, 3in exhaust, 54 trim T3/T4 turbo. I also have a devilsown alki injection kit in that sprays with a M7 tip above 17 or whever i set it. Up til now i was going off the autometer a/f gauge with the lights. I installed the wideband and made a few WOT runs at 21 psi and im showing between 12.5 and 13s for fuel. i know Its supposed to be around 11.5 for it to be the best, anything higher is lean and hell no good. Right now ive been throwing a code 51 for O2 lean or something, a/f gauge isnt even lighting up anymore, think the stock O2 sensor is bad maybe. I'm going to replace the sensor see if that changes that and reset the computer. i'm hoping its just a bad O2 and thats gets a code out of the memory cause that ones causes a loop and limp in. Also been getting a 23 which is air charge temp sensor which is bought a new one and gonna see if that changes anything with that code. Where should i start with fueling ? i have the accufab bumped down to almost stock, think maybe start uping it and see if i get close to 11.5 at WOT. any other ideas?

[Dez]

How much was it? difficult to install?

[Will Martin]

Don't forget to check the O2 sensor wiring as well. TIII's are notorious for the wiring being close to the turbo/exhaust housing and melting. I always ADD more fuel then bump it down from there. Turn UP the Accufab then do some WOT runs and turn it down accordingly.

[cordes]

If the AEM has a narrow band output I would run that to the computer and use the WB sensor for the O2 signal. I have done that in my omni and it works great.

As for the tuning, you are pretty lean right now. I would not want to be running that kind of boost at 13:1 as that is just asking for it.

If you are working strictly with the AFPR then I would do as Will says and crank it up and then take fuel out from there. Although you could also bring on the alky earlier as supplemental fuel so that you are not rich all the time. The only bad part about using the AFPR is that you are raising the FP across the board which will cause you to run rich at idle etc. I would honestly take the second route and have the alky pick up the slack for the lack of fuel at higher boost.

I would also suggest sending the cal back in for some more fuel too since it is lean. There is no reason to be messing around with the AFPR too much when you can do that.

[Xtrempickup]

im going to be running C16 mixed in with 93 when i go back to the track, the accufab is turned down as low as i could get it with stock 1/4 return line. i think it was something close to 45lbs with the vac line on. the wide band was easy to install, im not running that other output to the computer. The wiring on my car was replaced and from what i can see i went through it and its not burnt up or anything, i guess i'l find out more when the new O2 goes in and see what that says. I'l start by bumping the fuel up and i might have to get my Sfac installed to take some out if it gets too rich at certain RPMS

[cordes]

Are the T3s rated at 55PSI? I thought they were. If they are I would crank it up to 55PSI and go from there. The computer should be able to do a decent job of getting the fuel right in open loop. You should be able to get a very good tune going between the alk and the FP adjustments that you have the room to make. :nod:

[Xtrempickup]

well i was told when installing the accufab to set it at 55psi with the vac line off of it and with the line one it drops to 45. i think i went as low as i could. i guess i could bump it up and see what happens and go from there

[cordes]

well i was told when installing the accufab to set it at 55psi with the vac line off of it and with the line one it drops to 45. i think i went as low as i could. i guess i could bump it up and see what happens and go from there

OK, I thought you were referencing static pressure (line off and plugged). I am surprised that the reg will only go down to 55PSI static. Even with a stock return line and 255 pump my shadow would drop the pressure down much more than that.

The only issue I can see with cranking up the pressure too much from where you are now is the headroom that you will have before the pump can't make any more pressure. I believe the walbro 255s top out at about 90PSI max. your 55 static pressure +20 PSI of boost already puts you at 75PSI. If you have to raise it much more you will be running the pump for all it's worth. Although there are a ton of guys who have done that successfully for some time it's not really ideal.

[Austrian Dodge]

11.5 is a bit on the rich side... i like someting between 11.8 to 12.0 at WOT

[Xtrempickup]

I was told that the alki has a totally different stoich value vs gas, vs gas with 10% ethanol. Right now i dont know what i actually have because i assume its the 10% ethanol gas which has a stoich value i think thats 14.13 vs 14.7 which is 93 octane i think on a o2 sensor. the stoich value of alki is 9 i think then theres a whole equation to figurew out what it equals out to. i might be close to whats desired, but i guess il have to turn the alki out and run it and see and then try to figure in the difference with the alcohol that im running that 75/25 alki to water mix. im gonna start with upping the fuel pressure a couple lbs, not a whole lot, because with 2 gal of C16 to 12 gal of 93 , I ran the car balls out at the track no alki with no knock 21-23lbs boost or anything 4 runs without any issues.

[cordes]

Although ethanol is 9:1 I have read that it does like to be run pretty rich eg. 5-6:1. I have not read up on it much more than that. If you do some of the math that we all wondered if we were going to use while in HS you can come up with your adjusted ideal ARF factoring in the alky and gas. If you are just supplementing with the alky, I don't think it would change anything to much. Especially since the alky should ease the octane requirements for your normal gas in the tank.

[Xtrempickup]

im running it in higher boost, just in pump, not full on. I have a SFAC to install but its not the easiest thing to do. How do you hoook the narrowband o2 off the Wideband to run it without a factory O2 sensor. i noticed there was an extra wire, a white one for 0-.5V or something, i was wondering how you would hook it in, i figure that the wodeband should be a good job of narrow and wide. Am i using the alki to supplement it, i was planning on using more methanol, thats what im using, that pump gas as the meth is cheap

[cordes]

I just plugged the narrow band output wire into my connector and there is a capacitor that goes in between the signal wire and the ground wire to clean up the signal. It works well and did not take long to do at all.

[Speedeuphoria]

The wideband reads Lambda(which is teh same for all fuels, stoich of 1), the display is showing you Lambda times a multiplier for Gasoline, so Lambda of 1=14.7.

No matter what fuel you use stoich is 14.7.

Alky makes good power at richer values than compared to gasoline.

[cordes]

The wideband reads Lambda(which is teh same for all fuels, stoich of 1), the display is showing you Lambda times a multiplier for Gasoline, so Lambda of 1=14.7.

No matter what fuel you use stoich is 14.7.

Alky makes good power at richer values than compared to gasoline.

Wow, that made the cloud that I had regarding conversions etc. disappear. Thanks! I was under the impression that the were two different modes that required some sort of conversion. Life just got a little easier.

[contraption22]

Your factory 02 sensor has no effect on WOT mixture.

[Xtrempickup]

i checked my fuel pressure, with the line on it was 38lbs i upped it to 45, way too rich, car had nothing. Downed it to 40lbs, car makes great power and WOT is much better, so i'm gonna work with it a little and see maybe a lb or 2 more or just C16 should cover it along with the alki.

[GLHNSLHT2]

You have to be able to program that 0-5v output. If you can't program it then it won't work.

[Xtrempickup]

i dont know how to program that output, it says its optional, you dont need it i dont even know what it does or where to wire it to

[cordes]

i dont know how to program that output, it says its optional, you dont need it i dont even know what it does or where to wire it to

Are you talking about from the WBO2 or the alky controler?

[Xtrempickup]

The WBO2 has a white wire that says 0-.5 output, whats it for and can i use it

[cordes]

The WBO2 has a white wire that says 0-.5 output, whats it for and can i use it

It should be 0-5v output, and you would need some sort of data logger to make use of it. The 0-1v output is the one that you could use to eliminate the stock O2 sensor if you ever wanted to.

[GLHNSLHT2]

The innovate has 2 zero to five volt output wires. But you program one to output only 1v at a certain a/f and 0v at the other a/f to simulate how a narrowband outputs. You have to be able to program this on the AEM to make it work. Glad I stuck with the innovate.

[Xtrempickup]

mine doesnt that that output, only ones for the data logger then i think from what im reading on my aem

[mario03SRT]

I installed an Aem wideband O2 sensor today. my car is a TIII with stage 3 cal, +40s, accufab adj fuel reg,255 walbro, 3in exhaust, 54 trim T3/T4 turbo. I also have a devilsown alki injection kit in that sprays with a M7 tip above 17 or whever i set it. Up til now i was going off the autometer a/f gauge with the lights. I installed the wideband and made a few WOT runs at 21 psi and im showing between 12.5 and 13s for fuel. i know Its supposed to be around 11.5 for it to be the best, anything higher is lean and hell no good. Right now ive been throwing a code 51 for O2 lean or something, a/f gauge isnt even lighting up anymore, think the stock O2 sensor is bad maybe. I'm going to replace the sensor see if that changes that and reset the computer. i'm hoping its just a bad O2 and thats gets a code out of the memory cause that ones causes a loop and limp in. Also been getting a 23 which is air charge temp sensor which is bought a new one and gonna see if that changes anything with that code. Where should i start with fueling ? i have the accufab bumped down to almost stock, think maybe start uping it and see if i get close to 11.5 at WOT. any other ideas?

xtreme,

I see that you are running a STG3 cal which is a 18 psi setup and you are exceeding the setup and running 21 psi. Are you letting the ecu control boost or are you using a mbc?

Marion

[Xtrempickup]

the computer is not stopping the fuel. CIndy says it was lean out a little. Cut out a Stage 3 is 21 i think or 24 if i remeber correctly already ran it with 23 lbs and had same everything. MBC is garbage and only causes serious surge or violent spikes, i wouldnt recommend one to anybody, get a real set up for boost. i will have a stage 5 ( something is gonna be made up) when the season is over, until then i'm running the 3.

[turbovanman²]

It should be 0-5v output, and you would need some sort of data logger to make use of it. The 0-1v output is the one that you could use to eliminate the stock O2 sensor if you ever wanted to.

So your saying the wideband will tell the stock computer to stay lean in cruise, which you can program, correct?

[Xtrempickup]

i think thats what he is saying as i have heard this before just wasnt sure how to utilize it if i had the wiring for it, im still going to run a stock sensor, its good to know tho

[CSX321]

No matter what fuel you use stoich is 14.7.
No it's not. Stoich in this context is the ratio of air to fuel by mass needed to completely burn the fuel. For example, for E85 it's 9.76 instead of the 14.7 average for gasoline. Gas with ethanol, MTBE, or other additives is normally lower than 14.7.

[turbovanman²]

No it's not. Stoich in this context is the ratio of air to fuel by mass needed to completely burn the fuel. For example, for E85 it's 9.76 instead of the 14.7 average for gasoline. Gas with ethanol, MTBE, or other additives is normally lower than 14.7.

And the only reason they use 14.7:1 for reg gas is to properly light off the cat for the best emission reduction.

[Xtrempickup]

great aint it fun to figure out the fuel ratio

[cordes]

So your saying the wideband will tell the stock computer to stay lean in cruise, which you can program, correct?

I have the PLX M300, and you can't program it, but it sure does a good job of simulating the narrow band output. My AF dances back and forth just like it should at part throttle and idle with the stock O2 sensor gone.

[Xtrempickup]

sounds like a good feature

[Speedeuphoria]

No it's not. Stoich in this context is the ratio of air to fuel by mass needed to completely burn the fuel. For example, for E85 it's 9.76 instead of the 14.7 average for gasoline. Gas with ethanol, MTBE, or other additives is normally lower than 14.7.

The sensor reads Lambda!.
Lambda stoich for all fuel types is 1Lambda period, no matter what fuel is used!

This wideband is preprogramed w/ a multiplier of 14.7, so 14.7xLambda of 1=14.7. Lambda is universal and is why it is used worldwide as a standard.

This is straight from innovates programers, I can supply quotes if you would like.

The actual stoich value does indeed change, but since you are not changing the multiplier and the sensor allways reads lambda, there is no need to change what your shooting for

[CSX321]

Sorry, yes, I see what you meant now. You meant that stoich is always shown as 14.7 on the gauge, because the gauge doesn't know what fuel is being used, right?

[Speedeuphoria]

Sorry, yes, I see what you meant now. You meant that stoich is always shown as 14.7 on the gauge, because the gauge doesn't know what fuel is being used, right?

yep, the actual stoich value will change but the gauge is reading lambda and is set for gasoline

[Ondonti]

Your factory 02 sensor has no effect on WOT mixture.
SBEC changes long term fueling values for WOT based on how the car has been performing in the past.
Its a real -----....unless the vendors have disabled the SBEC's learning functions.

If not, you need to clear the ECU memory constantly if you like being careful about your tune.

[Ondonti]

BTW I didnt catch if you are spraying straight meth?

If so, I agree.

Increase your methanol fueling since it is boost dependent.
I dont think its a good thing to have your ECU making big closed loop corrections (what happens when your base fuel pressure is to high and your ECU has learning capabilities) as that really screws up long term SBEC fueling (not sure about spark).

I got one of the bigger 100w pumps and I want to spray a lot of Meth :D
30-40gph worth through 3 nozzles.
I think tuning standalone as well as Methanol injection on the wideband will be a lot of fun.

Still, with just the devils own kit, you have a lot of control of fueling with that progressive controller.
You will actualy make more power if you are burnign alky then if you are burning gas.

If you drop your a/f from 13 to 11.5 with just meth......you can add about 2.5% free horsepower because of how much methanol you are burning (about 12% of your fuel is from meth and meth makes about 20% more power then gas when you run it nice and rich). 11.5 is usually not great for power even on a turbo car but its safe and the alky would probalby still make more power then you did @ 12.5-13.0:1.

12's are really only safe when you are running really low boost and low timing, c16 or other very expensive racing gases..........or when your car just doesnt make any power :D

[Xtrempickup]

reading about Lamda values again, If i set the wide band to read in lamba, then as long as i'm at 1 in no matter what fuel with or without alki, WOT or part, i know im stoich? what would i want to be seeing in lamba

[Speedeuphoria]

just use what ever's easier for you, Lambda or Gasoline A/F.

So if you tune for a safe 11.5, 11.5/14.7=~.78Lambda is a safe tune

[Xtrempickup]

cool so its divide whatever i had by 14.7 to get the lamda value if i wna use that cool thanks