I came, I went, I ran 13's, :O(

[turbovanman²]

After leaving the dyno, I didn't touch a thing-20 psi, so got to the track with a low tank, added 4 gallons C16, put on my 24.5/8.5 M@H slicks on Rota wheels, 18 psi of air, and got up almost right away. Put against some NA car, ha, did a burnout, and launched, spun out of the hole and thru most of 1st gear, shifted early and ran a 14.0@95mph with a 2.1 60ft and the boost was around 18 at the track.

Got back, a quick cool down and lowered the tire pressure, added a few clicks of boost and back out, again, running against a turbo car, not sure what, again, no traction-its very slick, track is cold, click off a 13.81@100.70mph, 2.1 60ft again, :D Boost was 20-21 psi. I also heard a bit of pinging.

Get back, lower tires down to 16 psi, add a few more clicks of boost, take out a few degrees of timing and wait ALONG time, hour a half, S2000 broke his axles, another car blew and another guy ran into the sand trap-didn't run off????? :confused: Guess his brakes couldn't stop his 16 sec run? :confused: Anyhow, I was getting compressor surge and 23 psi, ran a horrendous 2.52 60ft and a 14.1@100.30 mph, ack!!!!!!!

Back off the boost 3 clicks, lower tire pressure to 14 psi and another hour and half later, stage, do a massive burnout-buddy taped it, launched, an almost unbelievable 2.8 60ft time-track is getting dewy, 13.84@99.77 mph with a bit of compressor surge.

So all in all, with traction, it was a low 13 or maybe 12 sec van tonight, not bad with an 8 valve cal and no tuning, :thumb:

Little disapointed but I didn't blow it up and I was the crowd favourite. I had so many oh's and ahh's at my engine bay and a friend told me when I lined up, everybody ran to the fence to watch me, :amen:

So whats in store, MicroTech standalone for next year and maybe a compressor wheel switch, back to a 50 trim. I have a spare T04E housing and new 50 trim wheel from my old turbo years ago.

Heres on vid-

http://media.putfile.com/Running-the-van-with-the-new-16-valve-engine-ran-a-138-in-the-14

[gasketmaster]

Good Job Simon :thumb:

Not to many people know what it feels like to break 100 mph in the 1/4 driving a minivan :eyebrows:

[raccoon]

it feels good i would imagine.

[turbovanman²]

Thanks Terry, :thumb: 100pmh in a tool shed is pretty cool, :partywoot::clap:

[Bubba]

Great job Simon! I use to run really low air pressure in my M & H's, like 10.5-11 psi...that helped a lot.

[GLHSKEN]

^^^^ You ran way too much air pressure.... 24.5 X 8.5 we were down to about 8psi. A bit low for the van, but 10-12 is about right.

[Aries_Turbo]

you have the knock sensor hooked up? where did you end up relocating it to? what knock curve did rob put in the cal? if you hear audible pinging, its pretty bad. needs some more fuel seeing the dyno vid.

good deal though for the first time back on the track. :)

Brian

[BadAssPerformance]

Glad you got it out to the track again Simon, a little tuning and traction and you'll get it going!

+1 on the ture pressure... I run ~10psi in the same tires in my front heavy Daytona.

Compressor surge? what turbo you got on it?

[shadow88]

Hurtin' 60 foots, but I know it was the track. What was the previous best trap speed?

[cordes]

Very cool Simon. Glad to see that you got it all together.

[Mike_Shepard]

There again I hear comp surge. Did you hear it

[Subliminal]

Another year or so, and you'll be as fast as the 8v again!

;)

Just kidding...good job on a first day out, simon.

:)

[turbovanman²]

Thanks guys, even though only did high 13's, still had fun, :amen:

Yeah, wasn't sure on the tire pressure, so I was just playing it safe.

No knock sensor as the noisey rocker arms set it off, hence not trying to run too much boost and using C16. Using Gary D's G head cal. Checked the plugs on the dyno and no signs of anything bad, :nod:

Its a 60 trim T3/T4, stage III wheel, .63 housing and a Evolution external wastegate.

[Dez]

Need to get that van tuned, man. Then it will surely haul --- :)

Good job on the 13's.

[Aries_Turbo]

garys g head cal???? no wonder you had audible knock. those things have crazy timing.

Brian

[turbovanman²]

garys g head cal???? no wonder you had audible knock. those things have crazy timing.

Brian

Thats the funny part, not enough timing, I had to bump the base timing from 12 deg to 20 deg or it had no power.

[gvare001]

Glad to hear the van is racing again.:thumb:

[Aries_Turbo]

well thats wierd. ill have to look at the stock timing map. what did robs cal do.. i know you said it had problems.

Brian

[Speedeuphoria]

I know w/ the 2.4's and such they dont seem to need lots of timing.

G heads need lots of timing and I would think as Brian said it would have "crazy timing"

whats your CR again?

do you have an EGT gauge on it?

I think you should stay conservative on it for now till you get a wideband and the standalone if you go that route

[turbovanman²]

well thats wierd. ill have to look at the stock timing map. what did robs cal do.. i know you said it had problems.

Brian

Idles funny, no power, and when we ran it up to 20 psi on the dyno, it cut out.


I know w/ the 2.4's and such they dont seem to need lots of timing.

G heads need lots of timing and I would think as Brian said it would have "crazy timing"

whats your CR again?

do you have an EGT gauge on it?

I think you should stay conservative on it for now till you get a wideband and the standalone if you go that route

I haven't checked the CR but it should be around 8:1. I'll do a compression test on night.

Yep, have an EGT guage and haven't got past 1500 yet, ;)

And yes, boost has gone back down to 12psi until the standalone is installed.

[Dave]

it feels good i would imagine.

It feels like "Holy f*&cking crap!!"

I was a bit more comfortable though. Pretty sure I had the only van that clicked 100mph in the 1/4 with 11" rotors. ;)

But anyway, good job Simon. Glad to see you got it running.

[Speedeuphoria]

Yep, have an EGT guage and haven't got past 1500 yet, ;)


yeah thats because of the crazy high timing

something has to be amiss if you had to bump the base timing up to 20 then run that G head timing on top of that. Sure the base timing is right? Cam timing? I'm sure you checked it, but thats all that I can think of

also I would think the dyno #'s seem more like 15psi #'s

[turbovanman²]

It feels like "Holy f*&cking crap!!"

I was a bit more comfortable though. Pretty sure I had the only van that clicked 100mph in the 1/4 with 11" rotors. ;)

But anyway, good job Simon. Glad to see you got it running.

You seem to forget my friend, I have had 11 inch front brakes for close to 3 years now, :amen: Did you not see the pics of my new slotted and CD rotors? ;)


yeah thats because of the crazy high timing

something has to be amiss if you had to bump the base timing up to 20 then run that G head timing on top of that. Sure the base timing is right? Cam timing? I'm sure you checked it, but thats all that I can think of

also I would think the dyno #'s seem more like 15psi #'s


Cam timing set with a degree wheel, ig timing set with a timing light.

Well the cal isn't optimized so yeah, the numbers will suck and I don't think the 60 trim is a good match with my combo.

[Vigo]

So all in all, with traction, it was a low 13 or maybe 12 sec van tonight,

well.. its a nice thought but i dunno anybody runnings 12s in a fwd at only 100.0 mph. you're missing a lot of power and you wont get into the 12s until you find it.. in your tune. :p

in the grander scheme of things.. high 13s at 100 is nothing to scoff at for a minivan. congrats.

[turbovanman²]

well.. its a nice thought but i dunno anybody runnings 12s in a fwd at only 100.0 mph. you're missing a lot of power and you wont get into the 12s until you find it.. in your tune. :p

in the grander scheme of things.. high 13s at 100 is nothing to scoff at for a minivan. congrats.


It'll be there for next year, no worries there, :D

And dont' forget, Gasketmaster is running low 12's at only 111mph. ;)

[Aries_Turbo]

you wont get 12's on 100mph trap. not with that lard van. :)

Brian

[turbovanman²]

you wont get 12's on 100mph trap. not with that lard van. :)

Brian

Your right, I won't, I need at least 111 mph or more. Next year.

Maybe I should put it in huge letters so I don't have to keep repeating myself, ;)

NEXT YEAR, I'LL HAVE A PROPER TUNE

[BadAssPerformance]

Flashback... is this 2006 talking about a new 8v tune in 2007? ;)

[8valves]

Flashback... is this 2006 talking about a new 8v tune in 2007? ;)

:clap:

[GLHNSLHT2]

hahahha Where's the 45MPG?

[turbovanman²]

Have you guys ever thought of doing standup? NOT! :faint: :bolt:

[boost geek]

Hey, I was wondering, why you running $100 worth of race fuel when you have a D.O. progressive kit?
I'm glad it held together for you! :thumb:

[Spraynlog]

Simon,

Man, it took some mad skilz to get that together and get to the track before the season was over! Congrats on a great job!

The times and speeds can only get better when the weather warms up and you have time to tune it.:nod:

Gary

[turbovanman²]

Hey, I was wondering, why you running $100 worth of race fuel when you have a D.O. progressive kit?
I'm glad it held together for you! :thumb:

Didn't have time to hook it up and play with it. Figured $80 for fuel is cheap insurance for one race, :thumb:


Simon,

Man, it took some mad skilz to get that together and get to the track before the season was over! Congrats on a great job!

The times and speeds can only get better when the weather warms up and you have time to tune it.:nod:

Gary

Thanks, I promised Terry I'll be down next year, so hopefully we can have a small Turbo Mopar meet at PIR, :clap:

[gasketmaster]

Thanks, I promised Terry I'll be down next year, so hopefully we can have a small Turbo Mopar meet at PIR, :clap:

You know we will :thumb:

[Ondonti]

well.. its a nice thought but i dunno anybody runnings 12s in a fwd at only 100.0 mph. you're missing a lot of power and you wont get into the 12s until you find it.. in your tune. :p

in the grander scheme of things.. high 13s at 100 is nothing to scoff at for a minivan. congrats.
I believe he was referring to his 13.8 run where he had a 2.8 60' and he was running less boost. If you benchrace that with his higher boost and the 1.9 60' he got you get a 12 lol :D

Simons 1/8 mile trap is probably more indicative of where his van "is" when it comes to performance.

[turbovanman²]

I believe he was referring to his 13.8 run where he had a 2.8 60' and he was running less boost. If you benchrace that with his higher boost and the 1.9 60' he got you get a 12 lol :D

Simons 1/8 mile trap is probably more indicative of where his van "is" when it comes to performance.


Exactly, isn't that what racing is all about, the coulda, shoulda, woulda's, :eyebrows: :clap:

Brent, aren't you the king of the above-well if my cam gears hadn't of moved, if I could only get traction, if my trans shifted properly, if my clutch worked better, if my intake wasn't leaking, need I go on? ;)

[Vigo]

LOL well thats why im saying his tune is the magic ticket, cuz if you have a good flowing setup that CAN make good power all the way to 7k+rpms and it charges up to the 8th and then sidles the rest of the way down the track like a 14 second car.. its the tune. but we all already know it, simon knows it, its been beat to death and posted in 47 font etcetc. he just wasnt gonna fix that tuning problem while he was there, so 'could've run 12s tonight' just pulled my bs trigger a bit. i know he'll do it soon enough, tho. :)

[Ondonti]

Exactly, isn't that what racing is all about, the coulda, shoulda, woulda's, :eyebrows: :clap:

Brent, aren't you the king of the above-well if my cam gears hadn't of moved, if I could only get traction, if my trans shifted properly, if my clutch worked better, if my intake wasn't leaking, need I go on? ;)

But i didnt benchrace a 1/4 E.T. from all that ;) I simply said if that stuff did not happen I would not have been so pissed. All I cared about was my trap speed and I didnt hit my goal because I screwed up my last two track visits.

Anyways you forgot the biggest problem I had, 2 cylinders fouling out in the staging lanes and getting towed home my last time to the track :D Pretty sure that was caused by the fact that I broke my intake manifold ealier that day (this is not the external AIC leak).
No matter how slow I run I can always say "well I was running 5 pounds of boost and pump gas" lol.

I can benchrace your van all I want though cause its not my car and Im not nutswinging off it. Nobody can say anything except that my benchracing is incorrect.

[turbovanman²]

^^^^^^See, I rest my case, :confused: :clap:

[Vigo]

No matter how slow I run I can always say "well I was running 5 pounds of boost and pump gas" lol.

hah i completely agree! in fact, even the ugliest turbo 3.0 setups have trapped 100 on 5psi from what ive seen. from what ive seen from here you guys have gone through a lot of the same stuff and have some similarities. though oddly.. simon starts LESS ---- and gets MORE ----. lol.

anyway both your cars will be ones to watch as you science out your setups..
im betting both will be in 11s in a years time :)

[Ondonti]

I am still wondering where the surge is coming from.

Seems like something is clogging up the system to be at 20psi and not moving enough air to stay out of surge.

Can bad tune really cause that?

[turbovanman²]

I am still wondering where the surge is coming from.

Seems like something is clogging up the system to be at 20psi and not moving enough air to stay out of surge.

Can bad tune really cause that?

I doubt it, I really think the 60 trim is a bad wheel choice. Going to throw my 50 trim wheel back on this week and see how she behaves, its really annoying.

[Ondonti]

Or get a .82 housing.

[8valves]

Can bad tune really cause that?

It sure can.

[turbovanman²]

Or get a .82 housing.

I have the 50 trim stuff, free.

.82 housing-Money.

[Frank]

Be VERY, VERY careful. The 50 trim is going to give you more airflow in the mid rpm range and you will be WAY lean!

[turbovanman²]

Be VERY, VERY careful. The 50 trim is going to give you more airflow in the mid rpm range and you will be WAY lean!

Thanks for the heads up, I will BE VERY carefull.

The more I drive it, the more I think the 60 trim is a really bad choice. I remember Kreiger saying at around 23 psi, it was surging, funny how its happening to me at around the same boost???? A part throttle and low rpm, it surges really badly. :confused:

[BadAssPerformance]

Thanks for the heads up, I will BE VERY carefull.

The more I drive it, the more I think the 60 trim is a really bad choice. I remember Kreiger saying at around 23 psi, it was surging, funny how its happening to me at around the same boost???? A part throttle and low rpm, it surges really badly. :confused:

What is odder is that you have a T-III head and he had a mild stock 8v head... Sure those cams are where they need to be?

[turbovanman²]

What is odder is that you have a T-III head and he had a mild stock 8v head... Sure those cams are where they need to be?

Oh yeah, trust me on that one. I spent 2 hours degreeing those suckers in. There BANG on, :p

[BadAssPerformance]

There has to be something else then... your head should flow enough that the compressor should not surge like that. :confused2:

[Frank]

While that maybe true, lets not forget the obvious. He is not making the power he wants, so while I am sure it has some to do with his tune, are their other bottle necks that could be causing a high amount of boost at the turbo outlet that could be simulating high boost conditions.

[turbovanman²]

While that maybe true, lets not forget the obvious. He is not making the power he wants, so while I am sure it has some to do with his tune, are their other bottle necks that could be causing a high amount of boost at the turbo outlet that could be simulating high boost conditions.

It could be the medium sized IC I have, as far as my induction system goes, its all 2.5 inch mandrel bent, nice flowing intake and head, ported ex manny, 3 inch right off the turbo to the back so none of that could be it. It could be I might need a different exhaust housing but for the time it takes to swap over the 50 trim, and its free, I can try that. I don't have the time to do the standalone so I am having Rob make me a TIII clone type cal for now, just so it runs better.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Thanks, I promised Terry I'll be down next year, so hopefully we can have a small Turbo Mopar meet at PIR, :clap:


You guys need to meet half way in Spokane and drag race here :) Say June/July sometime??

[cordes]

There has to be something else then... your head should flow enough that the compressor should not surge like that. :confused2:

Huge +1 there are too many guys running that turbo on an 8V head sucessfully for a TIII with ported manifolds etc. to be surging.


It could be the medium sized IC I have, as far as my induction system goes, its all 2.5 inch mandrel bent, nice flowing intake and head, ported ex manny, 3 inch right off the turbo to the back so none of that could be it. It could be I might need a different exhaust housing but for the time it takes to swap over the 50 trim, and its free, I can try that. I don't have the time to do the standalone so I am having Rob make me a TIII clone type cal for now, just so it runs better.

Simon, why start swapping parts so quickly. You have been trying to fight off everyone who is dogging you in this thread by saying that the van is not anywhere near tuned right, and you already want to swap the turbo?

I have taken almost 1200RPM off the spool time of the turbo in the omni through tuning since I have had it. Food for thought.

[gasketmaster]

You guys need to meet half way in Spokane and drag race here :) Say June/July sometime??

I thought PIR was your favorite track :D :p :p :p

[Ondonti]

Im pretty sure if the ONLY thing you change is the turbo (to a 50 trim of similar turbine size) it will still surge.

[turbovanman²]

You guys need to meet half way in Spokane and drag race here :) Say June/July sometime??

Could be a plan, if the track is still open.


Huge +1 there are too many guys running that turbo on an 8V head sucessfully for a TIII with ported manifolds etc. to be surging.



Simon, why start swapping parts so quickly. You have been trying to fight off everyone who is dogging you in this thread by saying that the van is not anywhere near tuned right, and you already want to swap the turbo?

I have taken almost 1200RPM off the spool time of the turbo in the omni through tuning since I have had it. Food for thought.

I agree but swapping it out is cake, took me under an hour, ;)

I haven't seen anyone running 60 trims, just 57 trim compressors.


Im pretty sure if the ONLY thing you change is the turbo (to a 50 trim of similar turbine size) it will still surge.


See my new thread in the TIII section in a bit.

[GLHNSLHT2]

I thought PIR was your favorite track :D :p :p :p


Car didn't like the concrete launch pad. I didn't like the fact that the finish line couldn't be seen till you were watching the CART race on TV. And it was funny watching the built muscle cars who forgot to put posi in the rear end spin a slick half way down the track.

It's not that I don't like it, just like SRP much better :)

[gasketmaster]

I haven't seen anyone running 60 trims


I'm pretty sure that Brian Slowe ran a 60 trim on his Neon headed Shadow if I remember correctly :)

[BadAssPerformance]

I haven't seen anyone running 60 trims, just 57 trim compressors.

The 60-1 HiFi myself and a couple others in Chicago have run on 8 valves is about the same size as a 60 trim... going to see how the same turbo does on the 2.4L soon :D

[turbovanman²]

I'm pretty sure that Brian Slowe ran a 60 trim on his Neon headed Shadow if I remember correctly :)

Ok, so thats what, one? :eyebrows:



The 60-1 HiFi myself and a couple others in Chicago have run on 8 valves is about the same size as a 60 trim... going to see how the same turbo does on the 2.4L soon :D


See above, lol. I know Jkreiger tried one and surged badly on his 8 valve.

[Frank]

You have to remember that it is all in how you use the turbo. Some people can use it, some cannot. Simon's van is heavy and it is an auto. He is more prone to have surge on some turbos that others may not.

I think you should go 50trim, but only when you get the cal. You will be way to lean until then.

[turbovanman²]

You have to remember that it is all in how you use the turbo. Some people can use it, some cannot. Simon's van is heavy and it is an auto. He is more prone to have surge on some turbos that others may not.

I think you should go 50trim, but only when you get the cal. You will be way to lean until then.

That could be it Frank. Believe it or not, its richer with the 50 trim, my EGT's start going down in boost and its green on my Dawes, :D

This is the 60 trim thread if interested-

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18879

[BadAssPerformance]

..Believe it or not, its richer with the 50 trim

Why wouldn't it be richer with a lower flow turbine wheel?

[turbovanman²]

Why wouldn't it be richer with a lower flow turbine wheel?


Frank said it would be leaner in the midrange, see back a few posts and above.

I didn't change the turbine wheel either, I changed the compressor wheel, ;)

[gasketmaster]

I'm sure the 50 trim will work great for you ;)




But....you better be packin' more than that when you come to see me next year or I'll give you the front seat view of my rear wiper :eyebrows:

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL... damn

[BadAssPerformance]

Frank said it would be leaner in the midrange, see back a few posts and above.

I didn't change the turbine wheel either, I changed the compressor wheel, ;)

That may depend on the cal if the 50 spools sooner and there is not enough enrichment at lower rpm.

[turbovanman²]

I'm sure the 50 trim will work great for you ;)




But....you better be packin' more than that when you come to see me next year or I'll give you the front seat view of my rear wiper :eyebrows:

Hahhaaa, don't worry, it will be brung, big time, ;)


That may depend on the cal if the 50 spools sooner and there is not enough enrichment at lower rpm.

Hey, just going by what Frank says, sheesh, but its richer and spools alot earlier, way more fun on the street.

[gasketmaster]

LOL... damn

I'm just pokin' fun at him..........and he know's it :D

[Ondonti]

So you swapped the compressor wheel........did you balance?

[turbovanman²]

So you swapped the compressor wheel........did you balance?

Nope, the comp wheel has been balanced by itself and so had the turbine. I've read you can have them both balanced or just change the wheels with no issues.

[BadAssPerformance]

I'm just pokin' fun at him..........and he know's it :D

yeah, one of my favorite past times :D

Yo Simon, did you change the comp wheel and the cover? :eek: ;)

[turbovanman²]

yeah, one of my favorite past times :D

Yo Simon, did you change the comp wheel and the cover? :eek: ;)

Man, you just don't read do you, :(

YES, Changed BOTH:clap: ;)

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL, neither do you... just like thowing poop yer way ;)

[turbovanman²]

LOL, neither do you... just like thowing poop yer way ;)

I read, after all, I am the post whore, :amen: Although, someone at TD has "TD post whore" in there sig? but they've got along way to go to catch me, muhahahaha. :evil:

[Vigo]

only 45 more posts til the big 12k there Simon! soon ill hit 600 too! w00t