Going with a S60 Mopar Cal ?'s

[mario03SRT]

Guys/Gals,

I'm going to this cal for my setup. Which is a bastard S60 setup from the original Mopar kit.

FWD Perf Taft S2 Cam
Menegon Head w/ OS Valves
FM Super 46 Trim T3/T4 w/ 2.5 SValve
Boost Cooler Water/Meth Inj, 75/25 mix 325 ml nozzle
FWD Perf Full 3" Exahust
FM 52 mm TB and ported Mani
Moparzrule Ported Stock Turbo Mani
FWD Perf Fidanza Cam Gear
Treadstone Mitsu FMIC
MSD Blaster 2 Coil

I chose this SMEC due to it's aggressive nature and closer tune to the setup than my current Stg 5 cal.

I've been pushing 25 psi on a basically untuned setup.

Will I be able to run this cal to 25 psi and if so will I need a 4.7 zener to get it to boost that much? I will be using a turboXS mbc instead of ecu controlled boost or should I let the ecu take over everything?

BTW, I picked this SMEC up from my dealer for 158.00!

Thanks in advance,

Marion

[contraption22]

The S60 cal is under-rated IMHO. If it had 02 Feedback, it would be pretty great. As you had mentioned, you will need to defeat the 22psi boost cutout to be where you wanna be.

[ShelGame]

...
I chose this SMEC due to it's aggressive nature and closer tune to the setup than my current Stg 5 cal.

...

Will I be able to run this cal to 25 psi and if so will I need a 4.7 zener to get it to boost that much? I will be using a turboXS mbc instead of ecu controlled boost or should I let the ecu take over everything?

BTW, I picked this SMEC up from my dealer for 158.00!


I could send you a chip with the S60 cal on it, but with the cutout raised to ~26psi.

The S60 is setup to use a 3-bar MAP , so a 4.7 zener wouldn't do it. Since the S60 has cutout set at 22psi, the MAP voltage would be about - (22+14.7)/(44.1) * 5V = 4.16V. But, that will give you the same problems as any 2-bar setup - no more fuel past the cutout level.

[mario03SRT]

I could send you a chip with the S60 cal on it, but with the cutout raised to ~26psi.

The S60 is setup to use a 3-bar MAP , so a 4.7 zener wouldn't do it. Since the S60 has cutout set at 22psi, the MAP voltage would be about - (22+14.7)/(44.1) * 5V = 4.16V. But, that will give you the same problems as any 2-bar setup - no more fuel past the cutout level.

Rob,

Sounds interesting. :eyebrows:

So with this mod to the S60 Cal, as long as I use the ecu to control the WGA it will not boost over 26psi or whatever my wga is tensioned too?

Can that be raised to a full 3bar?

If I use ecu controlled boost how should the vacuum lines be routed? Boost source to MAP to WGA? I've used a mbc on my SRT and the Daytona for so long I forget exactly. My WGA has a LOT of preload on it to about 25/26 psi.

When can you send this out as I'm trying to wrap this up in a week or so for Turbopalooza on the 3rd of Nov.

Thanks,
Marion

[ShelGame]

Rob,

Sounds interesting. :eyebrows:

So with this mod to the S60 Cal, as long as I use the ecu to control the WGA it will not boost over 26psi or whatever my wga is tensioned too?

Can that be raised to a full 3bar?

If I use ecu controlled boost how should the vacuum lines be routed? Boost source to MAP to WGA? I've used a mbc on my SRT and the Daytona for so long I forget exactly. My WGA has a LOT of preload on it to about 25/26 psi.

When can you send this out as I'm trying to wrap this up in a week or so for Turbopalooza on the 3rd of Nov.

Thanks,
Marion

I was wrong, the S60 is only setup to run 19psi (wow, that seems really low these days) - not 22psi.

I can set the OB shutdown point to whatever you want (~29psi is max). But, the S60 ECU is only setup to control boost up to 19psi. I can set the boost setpoint higher, but the WG duty cycle will probably still need some tuning as Chrysler only tuned it up to 19 psi. Plus, if you're plumbing is different from stock (tubing lengths, diameters, etc.) it will make the tuning different. The S60 is based on the T2 code, so it uses the same WG routing as the T2.

You'd probably be better off using an external boost controller if you're going to run much over 19psi.

Spark and fuel should be fine up to ~29psi.

The S60 also has a dual boost mode. Low boost is ~13.5 psi. When NOT hi-boost mode, it also removes some timing from boost. The default is hi-boost mode. You have to power a pin on the 60-way to get it into lo-boost mode (Park/Neutral switch input; pin 30).

EDIT: I forgot - I can probably burn the chip tonight and get it in the mail tomorrow...

[mario03SRT]

I was wrong, the S60 is only setup to run 19psi (wow, that seems really low these days) - not 22psi.

I can set the OB shutdown point to whatever you want (~29psi is max). But, the S60 ECU is only setup to control boost up to 19psi. I can set the boost setpoint higher, but the WG duty cycle will probably still need some tuning as Chrysler only tuned it up to 19 psi. Plus, if you're plumbing is different from stock (tubing lengths, diameters, etc.) it will make the tuning different. The S60 is based on the T2 code, so it uses the same WG routing as the T2.

You'd probably be better off using an external boost controller if you're going to run much over 19psi.

Spark and fuel should be fine up to ~29psi.

The S60 also has a dual boost mode. Low boost is ~13.5 psi. When NOT hi-boost mode, it also removes some timing from boost. The default is hi-boost mode. You have to power a pin on the 60-way to get it into lo-boost mode (Park/Neutral switch input; pin 30).

EDIT: I forgot - I can probably burn the chip tonight and get it in the mail tomorrow...

Rob,

Cool. I'll send some $$$ your way via paypal ASAP. The usual fee? Can a CEL/Knock feature be added? If so go ahead and add it. Please set the boost for a full 3bar and I'll use the mbc and wga and override the ecu and keep it at 25/26 psi.

Thanks,

Marion

[ShelGame]

Rob,

Cool. I'll send some $$$ your way via paypal ASAP. The usual fee? Can a CEL/Knock feature be added? If so go ahead and add it. Please set the boost for a full 3bar and I'll use the mbc and wga and override the ecu and keep it at 25/26 psi.

Thanks,

Marion

Yep, the same.

I can kill the OB completely as well, if you want. There's a special OB setpoint for a bad WG. Since you're going external, I'll kill that too.

I don't have an S60 built with the CE flash feature. I'm sure I could add it, but not in time to ship a chip tomorrow. If you want that added in, you'll have to give me a week at least.

[mario03SRT]

Yep, the same.

I can kill the OB completely as well, if you want. There's a special OB setpoint for a bad WG. Since you're going external, I'll kill that too.

I don't have an S60 built with the CE flash feature. I'm sure I could add it, but not in time to ship a chip tomorrow. If you want that added in, you'll have to give me a week at least.

Rob,

Ok then no CEL then. I'll use a OTC 4000 to tune it in all the way. You have $$$ in paypal.

Thanks,
Marion

[ShelGame]

Rob,

Ok then no CEL then. I'll use a OTC 4000 to tune it in all the way. You have $$$ in paypal.

Thanks,
Marion

Cool. I'll get the chip on it's way tomorrow...

[mario03SRT]

Well the chip is in and it fired and idled and cruised just fine. On the WB the idle afr was great at 14.1 w/o any flux since there is no 02 input. But hey it's right on! Cruise and part throttle are just fine also with afrs in the high 13.9 low 14.1.:amen:

The boost is coming on sooner and the fuel/spark cut works too. I hit 29 psi once..ooopppsss:yuck: My WGA arm is a bit too tight.

So far the boost is less laggy from the other cal (which was not for a big head and cam and turbo). Just from a couple of pulls the boost is 500 rpm sooner maybe.

Gotta get my boost settled back in at 25 or so and then after a lifter swap off to the dyno. I may do a back to back on either chip.

Thanks Rob,

Marion

[mario03SRT]

Does anyone know what the rev limiter is set on for this cal?

The reason I ask is I'm getting either some spark blowout or hitting the rev limiter. With the previous cal the car would rev freely under boost to 7k no problem after I added the MSD2 Blaster Coil. With the S60 cal I get either blow out now or there is a fairly low rev limiter around 5800.

I'm presently gapped to 30 on the NGK's, that worked well until the chip change. Now it sounds like a nazi burp gun when it really starting to "eat" in boost anf upper 5 k's or rpm. bpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpb.......

PS, I got the boost turned down (;) )to 25 psi.

Marion

[ShelGame]

The S60 rev limiter is set to ~6600rpm. So, at 5800, that's not the rev limiter...

There are also "limp mode" rev limiters at 2k and 3k (for bad tps and MAP, respectively). It doesn't appear you're hitting those either.

[mario03SRT]

Rob,

Thanks for the info.

So then I'm getting some sort of ignition issue. The car did this once the top end was swapped 6 weeks ago and I added a better coil to clear up the problem.

Nothing else on the setup has changed from one chip to another. I'll do a swap back after work to see wassup.

Could it be that more boost sooner has created a issue with the plugs. I have another set that I'll gap to .028 and see what is up. Maybe a set of recessed plugs are in order?

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Marion

[ShelGame]

Could it be too much advance and possibly knock? The S60 isn't tuned at all above 19psi boost. You get the same vac advance at 25+psi that you would get at 19psi. Might be too much? Hard to tell without hearing the car...

[mario03SRT]

Rob,

It sounds the same as when my coil was too weak. It's a even, rythimic sound like a kid making a exhaust noise with his lips. bpbpbpbpbpbpbbpbp. Like a sub machine gun. But not a ping or knock.

I'm running a healthy dose (375ml nozzle) of 70/30 mix of water and methonal and Sunoco 94 octane with AFR's in the low 10's, cold plugs and 12 deg of base timing.

Marion

[tryingbe]

Get ready for 15mpg.

[mario03SRT]

Get ready for 15mpg.

sweet..........

[mcsvt]

I think your on the right track. Try another coil and/or slightly tighter gap on the plugs.

[mario03SRT]

I think your on the right track. Try another coil and/or slightly tighter gap on the plugs.

Thanks

I'll report back tomorrow AM. Does .028 sound right?


Marion

[mcsvt]

That's what R/T said OhioRob was running, so seems good to try to me.

[mario03SRT]

All,

Well I gapped the plugs down to .028 and took out 3 lbs of fuel. Now the breakup is gone. And the afr @ redline is 11.0, up from 10.0 earlier. It pulled like I've been waiting for with a quicker spool and more linear power. I can see the nice flat torque curve in my head.:nod:

The other behavior of the chip is very good so far. It's in the high 50's here after months in the lo to mid 90's every day and it fired immediately ran to 1800rpm and a afr of 12.5 until it warmed and then it leaned to 13.9/14.1 and idles @ 800 or so. To me the idle is smoother.

I may dyno this setup soon. Gotta swap out my lifters first.

FYI,
Marion

[mario03SRT]

All,

A little update.

Boost is at 25 psi with a bit of a spike now. I have the Boost Cooler starting around 4 psi and maxing at 25 psi. There is a considerable amount of performance increase in the midrange with boost coming on sooner and a lot more timing also. Base Timing is still at 12 degrees. I'm having the guru Shel Game burn me another with a increased fan schedule to 190 degrees or so and a 2 step rev limiter. The chip currently runs 20-30 degrees warmer than the Stg V.

I hope still to swap lifters/cam gear and log some runs on an OTC 4000 to view knock etc.

FYI,
Marion

[gti_7]

Would anyone know the redline or fuel cut for this calibration?

much appreciated
bernie

[mario03SRT]

Up to now I have not ran in to either. Ive spun the motor to 6500 and 27 psi w/o out any issues. When my new replacement chip comes in it's going on the OTC Scanner again. This is a "race only" tune from Mopar so my guess that there is neither.

Marion

[turbovanman²]

Did you have any ox feedback added? any power numbers, track times, mpg? :nod:

[ShelGame]

Would anyone know the redline or fuel cut for this calibration?

much appreciated
bernie

Rev limit is set to 8000rpm, and the speed limiter is set to 254mph. Good luck hitting either of those...

[gti_7]

Thats awesome! thank for you the info. I had no idea that the Super60 Cal had basically no redline :thumb: I think at 254 MPH 1. body panels would whip off.. and if they didnt 2. jeremy clarkson would be calling you to have your car on the show.

In high boost, how much does the boost taper off as the rpms climb?

bernie