Flow numbers for my TIII head!

[turbovanman²]

Gary's site lists his flow numbers at 10", mine were done at 28" and are almost the same as his. I had it cleaned up, some minor porting, new valve guides and valve grind. He said my valves should be replaced as they sit low and if I ran some new ones, would pick up some nice flow. All I say is turn up the boost, :thumb: He also mentioned the difference or ?, can't remember is 80%, which is good.

Int-
.100 100cfm
.200 165
.300 207
.400 234

Ex-

.100 83
.200 137
.300 165
.400 183

[GLHNSLHT2]

what is it at .335 or whatever stock lift is?? Pics of the flow sheet?

[RoadWarrior222]

c'mon now, quit with the teasing, bolt it all together and fast forward to the bit where you get immortalised on a plaque at the strip... for the longest oildown. :D

[GLHNSLHT2]

flows better at low lift, .200 and lower than my Masi head. But from there on up the masi head outflows it. Did you do a test with the manifolds on?

[turbovanman²]

No flow sheet, he quickly did it after work, no manifolds either. Stock cam lift is .335"

Masi's flow better than TIII heads, :mecry:

This is from Gary's site at 10"

Lotus 16V 244 cfm 182 cfm 350"
Maserati 16V 237 cfm 213 cfm 350"
Neon DOHC 237 cfm 195 cfm 350"
Swirl SOHC 156 cfm 135 cfm 500"

[GLHNSLHT2]

I have flow sheets for mine at 28" of water with and without manifolds. Also comparing it to my Ed Peter's 8v head I had flowed as well.

My flow #'s at simon's lift since mine was noted every .050" instead of every .100.

Int
.100 74.36cfm
.200 145.45
.300 204.60
.400 239.52
.500 251.61

Exh
.100 64.33
.200 152.49
.300 191.94
.400 199.46
.500 201.33

The head is bone stock with mid 80's to mid 90's thousand miles. Can't remember the exact mileage on it. With the manifolds on I drop 8-15cfm on the intake above .350 lift but the stock cam only goes to .315. The exhaust is wild as with the manifold on I GAIN 8-15cfm from .200 up!

I can't wait to have it all ported and a big plenum on the intake with the oversize valves and get it all flowed again. Cool thing also is I can get cams up to .474" of lift. This motor is gonna rock.

[glhs727]

Gary's were flowed at 10 inches but were corrected using a 2.6 conversion.
http://thedodgegarage.com/cylinder_head_flow.html
later,
Cindy

[Turbo3Iroc]

I can't wait to have it all ported and a big plenum on the intake with the oversize valves and get it all flowed again. Cool thing also is I can get cams up to .474" of lift. This motor is gonna rock.

Nice numbers for stock.....

I don't think .474 lift cams will fit through the bores. Might want to take some measurements as to what will fit before you go wild....

Kelly

[turbovanman²]

Mine

Int-
.100 100cfm
.200 165
.300 207
.400 234

Ex-

.100 83
.200 137
.300 165
.400 183


His

.100 74.36cfm
.200 145.45
.300 204.60
.400 239.52
.500 251.61

Exh
.100 64.33
.200 152.49
.300 191.94
.400 199.46
.500 201.33

Considering the amount of time spent on mine and the worn valves, I couldn't be happier, :clap:

[turbovanman²]

Gary's were flowed at 10 inches but were corrected using a 2.6 conversion.
http://thedodgegarage.com/cylinder_head_flow.html
later,
Cindy

Thanks, speed reading and saw the 10" at the bottom paragraph. Paint fumes are making my head spin, :lol:

[Turbodave]

I don't think .474 lift cams will fit through the bores. Might want to take some measurements as to what will fit before you go wild....

Kelly

I think he was referring to his Masi head. Those have caps to hold the cam in so the big lobes shouldn't be an issue.

[2.216VTurbo]

...Still a little issue with those cams, well two actually. First, the head has to be notched on either side of the buckets so the big lobes dont make contact as they come around. Not such a big deal, I did it to my last Masi head I built 'just in case' I want to run the huge cams;) Secondly and probably an even larger drawback for me is the motor is not 'breaksafe' anymore with the big cams:( Sure would hate to lose a whole motor for a relatively minor mishap like a thrown/broken cambelt...

[turbovanman²]

My ports look like this-

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/TIII%20engine%20build%20pics/Canoncamerapics041.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/turbovanman/TIII%20engine%20build%20pics/Canoncamerapics042.jpg

[ShelGame]

The VolEff curve should look like this (using this flow data and the plenum volume you sent me earlier)...

[turbovanman²]

The VolEff curve should look like this (using this flow data and the plenum volume you sent me earlier)...

Pretty neat, :thumb:

[Frank]

The VolEff curve should look like this (using this flow data and the plenum volume you sent me earlier)...

I was about to say that it looked about right, but it seems slightly to good... hmmm.

[turbovanman²]

I was about to say that it looked about right, but it seems slightly to good... hmmm.

What do you mean by that? :confused:

[ShelGame]

I was about to say that it looked about right, but it seems slightly to good... hmmm.


It's actually only a couple of percent better than the stock T3 VolEff curve. Assuming I extraced it correctly from the T3 code, which isn't exactly straightforward...

[GLHNSLHT2]

Nice numbers for stock.....

I don't think .474 lift cams will fit through the bores. Might want to take some measurements as to what will fit before you go wild....

Kelly


Masi FTW!!! :)

[turbovanman²]

Masi FTW!!! :)

Nah, TIII are hard enough to find parts for, let alone Masi's, :(

[GLHNSLHT2]

I haven't had any problems finding parts. Just have to know where to look.

[2.216VTurbo]

Nah, TIII are hard enough to find parts for, let alone Masi's, :(


Difference is, once you find the Masi head/parts, you dont ever need to find them again. Cams don't flake, rockers don't wear out(no rockers in fact:p ) lifters don't come apart(well actually no lifters either;) ) heads dont crack, cam belts don't shred themselves (still using what I believe is the OE belt on my 80K mile 90 TC, spare in trunk, just in case:D ) Pattern here?:amen:

[turbovanman²]

Difference is, once you find the Masi head/parts, you dont ever need to find them again. Cams don't flake, rockers don't wear out(no rockers in fact:p ) lifters don't come apart(well actually no lifters either;) ) heads dont crack, cam belts don't shred themselves (still using what I believe is the OE belt on my 80K mile 90 TC, spare in trunk, just in case:D ) Pattern here?:amen:

No idea what your talking about, ;)

[TurboJerry]

Difference is, once you find the Masi head/parts, you dont ever need to find them again. Cams don't flake, rockers don't wear out(no rockers in fact:p ) lifters don't come apart(well actually no lifters either;) ) heads dont crack, cam belts don't shred themselves (still using what I believe is the OE belt on my 80K mile 90 TC, spare in trunk, just in case:D ) Pattern here?:amen:

The problems you mention with the Turbo III are easily solved. It seems to me that either head has its issues that will show up if proper care is not taken. The power and reliability is there regardless of what head is used. I prefer 8 valve heads anyway........

[turbovanman²]

The problems you mention with the Turbo III are easily solved. It seems to me that either head has its issues that will show up if proper care is not taken. The power and reliability is there regardless of what head is used. I prefer 8 valve heads anyway........

8 valves have there own issues, lol! ;)

[GLHSKEN]

Not at all.. 8v's are VERY reliable and have been proven capable of 500hp....

[turbovanman²]

Not at all.. 8v's are VERY reliable and have been proven capable of 500hp....

They have there issues-head gaskets, flat cams, noisey lifters/cams, breaking pistons, venting blocks, :lol:

To get an 8 valve to 500 hp is stupid money, to get a 16 valver there is alot simpler and cheaper. Hell, we'll bring Larry up again, bone stock RT, big turbo and IC, I think a cal and some alky and 500/500. :hail:

[Directconnection]

flows better at low lift, .200 and lower than my Masi head. But from there on up the masi head outflows it. Did you do a test with the manifolds on?


T-III head has ALOT of velocity. I had one of my spares flow tested by the guy I work with before I worked there, and before I had my own bench. It was 215 at 28" at .350" lift. He told me the thing really whistled on his bench.

[Directconnection]

They have there issues-head gaskets, flat cams, noisey lifters/cams, breaking pistons, venting blocks, :lol:



None of those have anything to do with any of the 8v engines I have owned, or friends have owned. 8v has nothing to do with the block windowing or pistons prone to breaking. Flat and noisy cams? Have you heard a T-III in person yet? I can forsee a new post by simon next week: " can I use PT lifters in a T-III? hehe

I can't say an 8v is more prone to headgasket blowings than a T-III. I hear about both.

I think Simon has 8v envy!:D

[Clay]

They have there issues breaking pistons, venting blocks,

learn something new everyday...... pistons and blocks are part of 8 valve heads! :lol:

[Directconnection]

It's because 8v's make inferior HP. They side load the piston due to their poor flame propagation and bend/break rods leading to windowing the block.

[RoadWarrior222]

Compromise, use 12V :thumb: no problems with performance upgrades on those...... oh yeah...... no performance upgrades on those.. :banghead:

Be an interesting exercise to find out if wedge pistons would improve that problem on the 8V. Wonder if the angles get better or worse if you put the pistons in backwards..... sorry, just thinking. :D

Talking of windowing blocks, ohhhh I wish I'd bookmarked this site that google threw up the other day when I was looking for something else. It was an import forum and two oldtimers were bragging about how many blocks they'd windowed, and some squid* pipes in asking where he can send his to get that done, 'coz he's thinking of anodising his new rods and wants to show them off...

(*squirrelly kid)

[Directconnection]

Be an interesting exercise to find out if wedge pistons would improve that problem on the 8V. Wonder if the angles get better or worse if you put the pistons in backwards..... sorry, just thinking. :D


The shop I work at has a contract for the crate motors for PASS and ACT which covers New England. They are sealed crate engine that we tweak a tad for durability purposes, etc. 345hp 2 barrell 350 GM ZZ4 crate engines. Sealed up with locks and special bolts. Anyways, if someone is suspected of playing around with the engines, the organizer of the series yanks the engines out and ships them back to us. We inspect for foul play. If we find nothing, then we dyno them to make sure they are close to what they went out the door as (everyone gets dynoed leaving the shop and is marked) One guy tried a slick trick which the owner was aware of though. Putting the pistons in backwardds. the pin offset does something different for the dwell, etc that what happens is, the engine picks up torque down low. So, your joke isn't really much of a joke. But, i prefer to run mine the correct way even though they are JEs that are on center.

[turbovanman²]

It's because 8v's make inferior HP. They side load the piston due to their poor flame propagation and bend/break rods leading to windowing the block.

Exactly. Due to the forces of nature and the whole world wide gravitional effect, and don't forget the time, space continuem, 8 valve heads and blocks suffer unexplained ventilation at most opertune times, :lol:

[turbovanman²]

The shop I work at has a contract for the crate motors for PASS and ACT which covers New England. They are sealed crate engine that we tweak a tad for durability purposes, etc. 345hp 2 barrell 350 GM ZZ4 crate engines. Sealed up with locks and special bolts. Anyways, if someone is suspected of playing around with the engines, the organizer of the series yanks the engines out and ships them back to us. We inspect for foul play. If we find nothing, then we dyno them to make sure they are close to what they went out the door as (everyone gets dynoed leaving the shop and is marked) One guy tried a slick trick which the owner was aware of though. Putting the pistons in backwardds. the pin offset does something different for the dwell, etc that what happens is, the engine picks up torque down low. So, your joke isn't really much of a joke. But, i prefer to run mine the correct way even though they are JEs that are on center.

I have heard of that, the downside is alot more piston noise but the upside is more power, :thumb:

[GLHNSLHT2]

T-III head has ALOT of velocity. I had one of my spares flow tested by the guy I work with before I worked there, and before I had my own bench. It was 215 at 28" at .350" lift. He told me the thing really whistled on his bench.


Funny, The guy that flowed my Masi head said it made a high pitched shrieking noise unlike he's ever heard before. And he flows 5 axis Cnc ported Nascar heads too. Wish I could of heard it.

[RoadWarrior222]

One guy tried a slick trick which the owner was aware of though. Putting the pistons in backwardds. the pin offset does something different for the dwell, etc that what happens is, the engine picks up torque down low. So, your joke isn't really much of a joke. But, i prefer to run mine the correct way even though they are JEs that are on center.

Yeah I knew it's meant to work well on some ford motors, wasn't really joking, but didn't want anyone to take me toooo seriously in case there was serious issues doing it on these that I wasn't aware of (not having checked the geometry of it myself)

[Directconnection]

Funny, The guy that flowed my Masi head said it made a high pitched shrieking noise unlike he's ever heard before. And he flows 5 axis Cnc ported Nascar heads too. Wish I could of heard it.

Kinda like the t-III from what you are telling us. He flowed a few 16v heads and said this one didn't flow as much as the honda did (240 on his bench) but showed alot more velocity and that uncanny whistling sound. He's done literally 1,000s of heads for our shop and others. Actually selling the bench now...tired of the stress of having to get heads done at home for a race engien that needs them the next morning. Always burning the midnight oil. I can't sell mine now, becaase then I will have nowheres to go for free.

[Directconnection]

btw...got 300+cfm from an ecotec head last year. Did some welding to get it, but he got it.