FWDP Dyno Tuned Calibrations

[JamesL]

While FWD Performance has always offered the best calibration value for your dollar along with the fastest turn-around, we continue to incorporate the feedback from our customers into our products. Being first to the market on a wide scale has not come without a few hick-ups along the way and has certainly given the competition something to shoot for. However, our latest success has been the Stage 3 T3 calibration. Utilizing our on-site state of the art Eddy Current DynoCom dynamometer equipped with a wideband o2, and pressure transducer along with the latest data acquisition technology from Snap-On we are able to dive deep into the inner workings of the ECM in real-time to see how our particular mix of variables is working. The result has been an evolution of improvement to this already great product. Our latest example of this involves a customer with a very nice 1991 Spirit RT / T3.

Sporting a 46 trim .63 hybrid turbo, a Spearco intercooler and plus 20 injectors, otherwise this car is stock; I managed to put down 241 horsepower to the wheels at 14-15 psi. We wired in a 3bar map, changed to plus 40s on the injector and plugged in our next generation Stage 3 18psi T3 computer. The results speak for themselves. We did need to turn down the fuel pressure a bit to get a good AFR at WOT and full load (10.8-11.2). That means there is room for more power with this setup or room for some upgrades like a bigger turbo, 3 inch exhaust or some port work. I’ve attached some picture for you viewing pleasure.

[turbovanman²]

Nice work, thats a serious jump in power, :nod:

What kind of SV are you using, what size exhaust?

[glhs727]

Car has a turbonectics universal wastegate, then has a 2.25 inch 90 degree coming out of it, going into a crimped bent 2.5" exhaust with a catco cat and magnaflow muffler. I'm sure we will be redoing the exhaust with a 3" madrel bent system soon.
later,
Cindy

[turbovanman²]

Ok. change the exhaust only and redyno it, :nod:

[Aries_Turbo]

not bad. i assume the boost pressure stayed the same? what was the end fuel pressure result? reason I ask is with the increased RPM capability of the T3, there could be a point where the injector duty cycle is at a level where the injectors could be damaged, IE over 85%, even with +40's. I like the ability of the trimcal to be able to scale back the fuel in the electronics instead of with fuel pressure because then the pulsewith and duty cycle are lowered, decreasing this risk. but then again, if its a dyno tuned cal, you can make those changes to the cal and all will be well. :)

on both though the spoolup looks a little laggy. exhaust possibly? Ive seen stock T3 motors with even larger turbos hit higher boost levels sooner. doesnt seem to be the ECU's fault though. they are about the same with both.

Brian

[JamesL]

not bad. i assume the boost pressure stayed the same? what was the end fuel pressure result?

Actually, we ran the boost to 18psi so it about a 2-3 psi increase. The end fuel pressure is at 49-50 static. I think the injector duty cycle is well within practical limits. I'll check my Modis scans to confirm.


I like the ability of the trimcal to be able to scale back the fuel in the electronics....SNIP

I couldn't agree more, the Trimcal is a nice peice of electronics. As you say though, this is dyno tuned for this car and will be a good starting point for other applications.


on both though the spoolup looks a little laggy. exhaust possibly? Ive seen stock T3 motors with even larger turbos hit higher boost levels sooner. doesnt seem to be the ECU's fault though. they are about the same with both.
Brian

Its got a huge bottleneck with the swingvalve/exhaust setup. If he ponies up the bucks, we'll fix that.

[Aries_Turbo]

oh ok, just a few psi of fuel pressure decrease. im usually leery of people who have a too rich cal and have to pull like 15psi of fuel pressure out of it to get it right and then run 28psi of boost with a 50 trim lol. you know the duty cycle is going to be crazy high at that point.

with the stock ecu going to ~100% duty cycle after XXXXrpms cause the inj were too small (i cant remember the exact number) did you guys change this in the cals? just curious. you prolly did or it would fall on its face in the high revs. :)

looks like a nice cal for many.

Brian

[fleckster]

So this is for the '91 Turbo III engine electronics. Do you have or plan on having the same set up for the '92 and '93 electronics?

[glhs727]

not sure what you mean Fleck. We have had 92-93 RT cals available for a long time including the 3 bar map cals. We will update as needed, and of course you are welcome to bring your 92-93 R/T down to Texas for some dynotuning/custom work too.
later,
Cindy

[fleckster]

not sure what you mean Fleck. We have had 92-93 RT cals available for a long time including the 3 bar map cals. We will update as needed, and of course you are welcome to bring your 92-93 R/T down to Texas for some dynotuning/custom work too.
later,
Cindy


Sorry, Cindy. I guess I'm confused. The first post on the thread by James states that you guys have a new T3 Stage 3 Cal. I guess I thought this was something new that you didn't offer before. It stated it was for the '91 Turbo III. It looks great so I thought I'd ask if this new Cal was going to be available for the '92-'93 Turbo III. So I guess I'm wondering is this the same as the previous Stage 3 or an new and improved Cal? :confused:

Currently, my car has what I was told by the previous owner as the last R/T Cal that Neil Emiro did before he quit making them. I would guess it would be considered like your Stage 2 as it is set up for +20% injectors and 15psi. Now that I have my front-mount dual core intercooler I can't seem to keep it from running "all of it" at over 20psi. It still seems to have enough fuel and the plugs look good but I need some scanner time to check and see if it is pulling any timing.

I appreciate the offer to come down and get some dyno-tuning/tweaking time. I would love The Evil Spurt to be a test bed for Cal or other work! I just don't know when I would be able to get time off from Chrysler to make it down there. :mecry:

[glhs727]

Sorry, Cindy. I guess I'm confused. The first post on the thread by James states that you guys have a new T3 Stage 3 Cal. I guess I thought this was something new that you didn't offer before. It stated it was for the '91 Turbo III. It looks great so I thought I'd ask if this new Cal was going to be available for the '92-'93 Turbo III. So I guess I'm wondering is this the same as the previous Stage 3 or an new and improved Cal? :confused:

It is a new and improved version of the s3 based on customer feedback and our own dyno time. This particular cal is a custom tune per say, but we will be making some changes in the other cals as well. We are CONSTANTLY evolving our cals to give our customers the best calibration available.

[devlish]

oh how i'd love to bring my car down to your shop for some dyno time!!! either way, nice work on making some serious power there!!

[Ondonti]

question.
Why did you guys let off @ such a low rpm? balance shafts? what?

[glhs727]

6000 rpms isn't exactly low rpms. Besides this isn't the final tune for this car. Right now we are fabricating a new 3" swingvalve/downpipe and once we put a 3" exhaust in place it will go back on the dyno.
later,
Cindy

[JamesL]

We finished fabing up a complete three inch system for Bill's 91 Spirit RT. So now its a 3" FWDP swingvalve / DP, 3" cat, 3" muffler and three inch pipes. I've attached some pictures of it as the work progressed. I still need to do a little grinding on it and send it out for coating but I couldn't wait to get it on the car for a test run. I didn't make any adjustments to the calibration but after this set of runs I've collected some data that indicates a little more tweaking would be beneficial. I'm still finding it a bit laggy for a 46 trim on a 16v, but I really don't know all the details as it is a FM turbo. Also, the head, manifolds and TB is bone stock.

[Aries_Turbo]

yeah the spoolup did improve but as you said, it is still a little laggy.

i assume that the little high rpm blip of leanness was when the dyno operator let off? looks like it still might need a little more fuel over 6500 rpms possibly?

looks great though. nice increase with the exhaust. :)

Brian

[Ondonti]

i was just wondering because cindy said the rpm limit was set @ 7500 on a stage 3 and you guys are letting off @ 6500 rpms.

I want to see cory's r/t with stage 3 over 7k and running well up there.

[Vigo]

20whp is a nice increase considering the previous exhaust was already better than stock. good info.

[Sloride]

Any interesting progress reports (dyno work) being done with the 90 sbec 5spd 2.5 stage 5 cals:D ??

Im eagerly awaiting my retune stage 5....:love:

[JamesL]

20whp is a nice increase considering the previous exhaust was already better than stock. good info.

It did have a 2" 90 degree elbow coming off the swingvalve. I opened up the swing valve quite a bit and attached a 3" short radius elbow to a three inch down pipe vs. the 2.5 inch crimp bend setup it had. I expected to spool a lot faster. Though it did spool a little quicker it is not where it needs to be yet. I was happy with the power increase and it came in a little sooner. I'll play with some timing and fueling down low to get a little more heat in the turbo sooner.

[JamesL]

It did have a 2" 90 degree elbow coming off the swingvalve. I opened up the swing valve quite a bit and attached a 3" short radius elbow to a three inch down pipe vs. the 2.5 inch crimp bend setup it had. I expected to spool a lot faster. Though it did spool a little quicker it is not where it needs to be yet. I was happy with the power increase and it came in a little sooner. I'll play with some timing and fueling down low to get a little more heat in the turbo sooner.

Well I got it to 331 HP but I'm still not happy with the spool time. Unfortunetly, the customer really wanted his car so my latest revision is untested for his setup. Looks like I'll have to finish one of those Spirits sitting out there. I made some fairly radical timing changes down low to get some of the fuel igniting in the exhaust manifold for a quick spool option but didn't get a chance to test it.

[turbovanman²]

Thats some good numbers for a 46 trim. :nod: :clap:

[devlish]

nice work once again!

i really wish your shop wasn't so far away....

[mario03SRT]

James,

I've been loooking this over for a while and have to ask a Q or 2.

Looking at the afr curve I'm curious as to the decisions for the richness of the setup particularly in the mid range. Are your douching the motor to prevent knock? If a mid 11 afr was used with some good 93/94 octane across the board is the engine going to rattle itself to death? You have control over timing and fuel so I'm looking to learn about the 2.2 and the "nature" of the combustion. I'm a Neon guy up until now and messing around with the 2.2 now. But I've always tried to get the afr flat as possible w/o any excessive knock activity. Why not richen up top and run leaner earlier? The afr curve seems inverted to me.

Also why are there peaks and valleys in the HP curve up top? Can't that be tuned out.

I have the same FM 46 trim/63 AR turbo on my Daytona and your off the shelf STG V cal and I'm hoping for at least 350hp with a Menegon head, Water/Alky and a STG2 cam. Am I dreaming?

BTW this turbo is very peaky it appears, as mine does not start to make any real power til 4k per the butt dyno. Kinda disappointing to be sure. I told FM I wanted a street beast with some track capability.

FYI,
Marion

[JamesL]

James,

I've been loooking this over for a while and have to ask a Q or 2.

Looking at the afr curve I'm curious as to the decisions for the richness of the setup particularly in the mid range. Are your douching the motor to prevent knock? If a mid 11 afr was used with some good 93/94 octane across the board is the engine going to rattle itself to death? You have control over timing and fuel so I'm looking to learn about the 2.2 and the "nature" of the combustion. I'm a Neon guy up until now and messing around with the 2.2 now. But I've always tried to get the afr flat as possible w/o any excessive knock activity. Why not richen up top and run leaner earlier? The afr curve seems inverted to me.

Also why are there peaks and valleys in the HP curve up top? Can't that be tuned out.

I have the same FM 46 trim/63 AR turbo on my Daytona and your off the shelf STG V cal and I'm hoping for at least 350hp with a Menegon head, Water/Alky and a STG2 cam. Am I dreaming?

BTW this turbo is very peaky it appears, as mine does not start to make any real power til 4k per the butt dyno. Kinda disappointing to be sure. I told FM I wanted a street beast with some track capability.

FYI,
Marion

Hi Marion, I think most of the issues I've had with the AFR have more to do with this turbo setup in conjunction with the stock head, cams and manifold. I have in fact leaned it up a bit in the lower and mid range and fattened it up a bit on top along with some timing changes, but it will be a few weeks until I can test it on his car. I am looking for an ideal AFR curve through out the run. Changes to these cals often have to be done in very small increments and it takes time to get perfectly dialed in. As for knock, the nature of the T3 helps a lot. You really have to screw up to make it knock significantly. So no, I'm not pouring on fuel to prevent knock. In this particular setup I'm just not getting all the air for the fuel thats flowing and so I'm still dialing it in. As for the dip in HP, I'm seeing a slight drop in boost at that point so I'm dialing in the wastegate duty cycle as well. I definitely think you can get to 350HP.

[My96z]

Its nice to see somone doing dyno tunes on these cars on a regular basis. When I get back to the world I plan on dropping my ugly van off to you guys for a few days to get some good dyno tune time on it! Great work!

Jeff

[turbovanman²]

Its nice to see somone doing dyno tunes on these cars on a regular basis. When I get back to the world I plan on dropping my ugly van off to you guys for a few days to get some good dyno tune time on it! Great work!

Jeff


That would be cool, :thumb:

[Ondonti]

Nobody even mentioned what turbine wheel was in that 46 trim so I dont see how people can be judging the turbo.

Still seems there is something wrong though.
Thats not even close to a "big turbo" for a 16valve 2.2 liter motor.

[turbovanman²]

Nobody even mentioned what turbine wheel was in that 46 trim so I dont see how people can be judging the turbo.

Still seems there is something wrong though.
Thats not even close to a "big turbo" for a 16valve 2.2 liter motor.

Either way, a 46 trim is wrong for a 16 valve engine, hehehe, :p

[glhs727]

We don't know what the 46 had for a turbine wheel. We didn't sell it, or install the turbo, and the customer didn't know. But 331 whp on a stock head, block, and manifolds with a small turbo is great in my book. If he had a nice 50 trim, or 60-1 and ran 25 psi of boost instead of the 18 psi he had, I'm sure he would have been in the upper 300's easy. Add a ported head, ported exhaust manifold and cams, I'm sure it would have been 400+.
BUT the customer wasn't looking for mongo hp, he was building a reliable daily driver/street warrior, and was estactic with the 331 #. Of course going from 246 to 331 with just a ECU/fuel and exhaust upgrade is quite an improvement.
later,
Cindy

[glhs727]

Either way, a 46 trim is wrong for a 16 valve engine, hehehe, :p


+1:amen:

[8valves]

Of course going from 246 to 331 with just a ECU/fuel and exhaust upgrade is quite an improvement.
later,
Cindy

Don't forget that extra boost... :)