2.2 in a fiero?

[W.P._Turbocars]

Friend has a fiero and wanted to try to drop a 2.2 turbo engine in it Has anyone done this?

Thanks

[ekimdam]

Friend has a fiero and wanted to try to drop a 2.2 turbo engine in it Has anyone done this?

Thanks

I've heard of a guy that was gonna do that to Fiat X19. Unless it's an '88 GT Fiero, then it's not worth the effort.

Just tell him to buy a second gen MR2 Turbo. Easy to make power (Stock EFI can handle 17psi boost), they look 100% better than anything mid-engine GM could dream up and they drive and handle like a dream (Wieght 49/51 bias). My '91 runs a 14.88 1/4 and it's 1000% stock, right down to the paper airfilter!

Nothing I hate more than for someone to call my MR2 a Fiero. :mad:

But seriously tho... '88 GT because the suspension is actually decent. If GM were smart they would have put the Olds Quad4 (the real one) in them instead of that bastage child of a 2.8 v6.

Could be interesting. It would certainly be better than the 2.5 or the 2.8 that's in them. Lot's of fabrication tho.... You'd need a cable shifted tranny, motor mounts moved around etc...

[Turbodave]

I'm sure it could be done, there is enough room to fit it in there. I helped friend start on a 350 conversion on his fiero, but the project never got any further than us pulling the stock drivetrain out. I went to one fiero club meet at a local place that does conversions (v8archie) and it was neat to see some of the cars they did, but they seemed to thow a lot of money into them for not much in the way of performance gains.

One thing to keep in mind, the Fiero is a heavy car for it's size, around 2900 lbs if I remember right. That and they are a pain to work on. Things like motor mounts, custom axles, trans and clutch linkages etc. will probably be the biggest challenge.

[88_pacifica]

Turbo'ed 3.8 Buick GN motor FTW! light and fast and retains GM status....

[Aries_Turbo]

all the 88 fieros got the same suspension. the GT got an additional rear antisway bar. big whoop. add one yourself.

forget a MR2. 14.88 is slow. we want 12's! lol plus the fiero pretty much has the same bias and looks alot better than the MR2 imho. the notchback with the GT ground effects is my favorite.

anyway, the fiero uses a saginaw axle setup.... I have a feeling that you can use the saginaw inner turbododge axles ( the ones with the hard plastic boots) and pop them on the fiero halfshafts and be pretty close to just having to make mounts.

the fiero mounts are pretty different so youll have to fab all 3.5 of them. not a big deal though but one youll prolly have to set the motor on the subframe temporarily and get it straight and then raise it up in the car and fab the mounts to the frame rails that are in there. the engine and trans in the fiero mount to the subframe on the bottom and then have a dogbone on the top totally different than a 2.2.

mounts arent that hard though. only other issue is the manifolds are going to be tight. you might have to cut the trunk out.

id go with a 3.4L DOHC with better manifolds than the quad 4 anyday. more power, less issues with headgaskets. 3800SC is a pretty sweet swap too. :)

a fiero with the V8 sitting in it is 27XX lbs. ive seen a scale printout.... 150lbs less with the 4-banger... 80lbs less with the v6.

Brian

[Aries_Turbo]

oh an in case you havent guessed, ive definitely thought about a fiero dodge swap hehe.

i think a 2.4L would be pretty rocking too. even stock with the NVT-350 it would be cool.

Brian

[Clay]

all the 88 fieros got the same suspension. the GT got an additional rear antisway bar. big whoop. add one yourself.


yeah, but the entire suspension was different in 88 compared to the other years. A complete revamp.

[Mopar_Nutz]

DO IT! hahaha
I love the idea of a mid engine/rwd turbo 2.2. OR since you might actually hook it up, 2.5. ;)

[turbovanman²]

yeah, but the entire suspension was different in 88 compared to the other years. A complete revamp.

Ha, you beat me to it.

I loved how the 84-87's would twitch and wander when hitting bumps or getting on the gas. The 88's were amazing.

I also loved the changeover styling for the GT, mucho better and the exhaust sound of the V6 was pretty narly, :amen:

[88_pacifica]

...and the exhaust sound of the V6 was pretty narly, :amen:

Now... think Buick V6 turbo... ;) :D Sorry, it's on the brain....

[ekimdam]

forget a MR2. 14.88 is slow. we want 12's! lol plus the fiero pretty much has the same bias and looks alot better than the MR2 imho. the notchback with the GT ground effects is my favorite.

Brian


No accounting for taste I see... :lol:

yeah.. 14.88 is slow but it's stock. 12's are had for as cheap as a TD can get there and a Gen 2 MR2 weighs less than a Fiero, not to mention that you'd be spending an enormous amount of time and $$ getting a 2.2/2.5 into a fiero....

Alas... to each his own. At least a Dodge engine in a Fiero would be an improvement in reliability for it. :drum:

[RoadWarrior222]

Supercharged Buick 350, built for 500WHP, custom suspension mods then go beat up on Ford GTs and GT40s, and tell 'em you did it for a few thousand, not significant fractions of 1M. :D

But the sensible swap is a decent 3.4, the next most sensible a 3.8

However if you really wanna screw around there might have been some crossover in the Jeep lineage between mopar and GM trannies and engines.

If you REALLY wanna screw around it's probably a good vehicle for putting a gas turbine motor in made out of semi-truck turbochargers or something else ridiculously large.

Or you can stretch it 3ft and put a V12 in it...

[Orangetona]

Why not a quad4 turbo out of a grand am? Its tuuurbo. :)

But yeah, like Brian said, you're gonna need to make room for the manifolds im sure. That would probably be your biggest deal especially that youre cutting the car up. But I doubt that would be an issue if you're gonna put a turbomopar engine in it. :D

[Aries_Turbo]

yeah, but the entire suspension was different in 88 compared to the other years. A complete revamp.


Ha, you beat me to it.

I loved how the 84-87's would twitch and wander when hitting bumps or getting on the gas. The 88's were amazing.

I also loved the changeover styling for the GT, mucho better and the exhaust sound of the V6 was pretty narly, :amen:

right, the 84-87 X body rear suspension had the original tie rod end of the knuckle tied to the subframe. its bump steer. its also not to hard to eliminate with a different length arm tied to a different spot. trust me, the 84-87 still handles well with a few key tweaks.


No accounting for taste I see... :lol:

yeah.. 14.88 is slow but it's stock. 12's are had for as cheap as a TD can get there and a Gen 2 MR2 weighs less than a Fiero, not to mention that you'd be spending an enormous amount of time and $$ getting a 2.2/2.5 into a fiero....

Alas... to each his own. At least a Dodge engine in a Fiero would be an improvement in reliability for it. :drum:

no, the 2G mr2 is pricy due to elitists and ricers ;)

I guarantee that I wouldnt spend lots of money getting the 2.2 in there. time... I got time. :) once I made the jig to hold the control arms where they are when the car is at rest, then make the jig to hold the new motor to the subframe so that the axles are level and centered, its only a matter of a few hrs to get the new mounts tacked in place. wiring would be alittle more difficult but if you treat the dodge ECU as a standalone and leave the rest of the GM electronics to do everything else, its not that bad.

:)


Why not a quad4 turbo out of a grand am? Its tuuurbo. :)

cause there is no factory quad 4 turbo... the grand am turbo was the LT3.... the 2.0L SOHC 8v motor that was also used in the sunbird turbo. a local guy here in WNY is obsessed with them. 14-15lbs and it didnt move all that bad. enough for 13's... he cheated though and used a turbododge turbo. :)

Brian

[WickedShelby88]

I gotta admit that little 2.0 will rev to the moon. Too bad its kind of a bastard motor.

[turbovanman²]

cause there is no factory quad 4 turbo... the grand am turbo was the LT3.... the 2.0L SOHC 8v motor that was also used in the sunbird turbo. a local guy here in WNY is obsessed with them. 14-15lbs and it didnt move all that bad. enough for 13's... he cheated though and used a turbododge turbo. :)

Brian

Yep, 2.0L Turbo engine code M. Bone stock they will run 15 secs flat in the 1/4. I have a turbo Sunbird at home, guess I should get it running one day.

[Orangetona]

cause there is no factory quad 4 turbo... the grand am turbo was the LT3.... the 2.0L SOHC 8v motor that was also used in the sunbird turbo. a local guy here in WNY is obsessed with them. 14-15lbs and it didnt move all that bad. enough for 13's... he cheated though and used a turbododge turbo. :)

Brian

My bad, I knew that. :)

[Dusty_Duster]

I knew two guys who put the supercharged V6s out of a GTP in their Fieros. They ran 11s at the track.

[ekimdam]

no, the 2G mr2 is pricy due to elitists and ricers ;)



That statement is neither fact nor true.


elitist - someone who believes in rule by an elite group


OK. Now isn't that the Pot calling the Kettle black? I've seen some pretty ricey TD's before. Oh, and name 5 people outside of this forum that own and BUILD a TD?


I make a light-hearted jab and get lumped into a class of elitists or ricers just because I like and drive MR2s. I was expressing my opinion that getting an MR2 would give the guy what he was looking for with a lot less of a headache. Yes, I despise Fieros. I have good reason to despise them. I've had the unfortunate experience of working on them from time to time, and ya know, I don't think GM engineers could design/engineer their way out of a wet paper bag. So why wouldn't I recommend a better platform?


And no, MKII MR2s are not overly expensive to build. Now if you want to go the rice route, sure I could find ya 100 different products that are made 'specifically' for an MR2 that would put even the riceyest Honda-Boy Racer to shame, all of which cost a bazzillion dollars and is guaranteed to give you 8000HP and make you go a million miles per hour, while getting all the chicks you could want. But the truth is, there is very little support for the MKI and MKII MR2s when it comes to REAL performance parts, not unlike our TD's. You have to look for it or make your own.

That in my book puts them right on par with the TD mantra, Can't find it? Fab it.

Now there are a few companies out there that still have some REAL performance goodies for MR2s, Greddy and HKS to name a couple, and comparatively speaking, not expensive at all. Does that mean that it's ricey because it came from Greddy or HKS? I would think not! You want a bigger turbo? Buy one and fab it to fit, endless options there, just like a TD and for the same $$. You want bigger injectors/FP/FPR, get some from a Supra. The only bonus to having an MR2 is that Greddy and HKS both make complete kits for a Turbo MR2. $3000 will buy you a proven and reliable 450HP kit that really does the job, but you can also get there using the same tricks that we've used time and again on our TDs for the same time and $$. I see no point in implying that MR2s are pricy because of elitists and ricers. It's simply not true at all.

Gimme a wastegate bleed and $10 worth of components from Radio Shack and I'll give you an instant and RELIABLE 17psi of boost in a STOCK MR2, not unlike a TD eh?




Now, none of this is on topic, but you kinda touched a nerve there. I'm not angry, just disappointed with a blanket statement that was seemingly meant to discredit.


W.P._Turbocars:

Tell your friend good luck and to have fun with it! Although I can't stand Fieros, mid-engined cars rock.

[WickedShelby88]

From 5 years experience at an independent shop I will vouch for the above. Even though I like the 88 GT and even the formula models, they come with many more headaches than the reliable and well made toyota. I worked on a first gen MR2 on a semi regular basis and basically all it ever came in for was maintenance. The R12 system even still held a good charge. I really do think, though, that the GM will be a 100 times more easily converted to MO-power than an import unless you go stand alone. I guess theres always megasquirt but why butcher an MR2 when you can butcher a vehicle that SHOULD of came with a better powerplant from the get go.

[Aries_Turbo]

Bunch of yelling....

relax, did you see the wink? ;) here it is again just in case you didnt see it! :p

bottom line, the import scene drives the price up of any vehicle from the east.

the MR2 is a great car. I like them. i just like fieros more. cheaper and more inline with the TD wants and desires. plus the fact that the axles might be a cake swap makes it more inline with WHAT THE ORIGINAL POSTER ASKED. plus the MR2 still has a little bump steer that needs to be corrected. the 88 fiero does not.

reason I joked about the "elitist" thing is cause thats what countless urban/suburban spoiled elitists do. someone asks question about "X?" and the elitist answers with statement "X is shitt, dont waste your time with X and buy product Y" out of their own tastes with a helping of arrogance and pride heaped on top. the worst are the BMW/Porsche guys. "dont waste time with your piece of crap FWD, buy a E30 BMW and spend countless hours fixing just as many little issues as with your FWD dodge and countless dollars modding the chassis so you can spend a few hundred dollars for a few hours on a road course with us and then eat some cheese washed down with overpriced wine after the event"

now while you were civil with your post about the MR2, you followed the "X is crap, buy Y" formula of the typical elitist so I teased you cause there was some truth there and even if you are or arent an elitist, I was just messing around. take it easy.

plus I had a 88 fiero. they are cake to work on. I could have the motor out in a few hours.

Brian

[RoadWarrior222]

bottom line, the import scene drives the price up of any vehicle from the east.

Yeah, it can be stupid round here for that, ppl want 2-3000 for late 80s civics with 200K + on them and rusted to hell.

[WickedShelby88]

lol, Its funny how these ricers will pay way too much for civics nowadays. I remember the prerice era CRX's were going for less when they weren't that old then some are now.

[Vigo]

i had a lot of chances to buy crx's of the 1990 era for less than 1k in the late 90s. im sure i would have enjoyed one but i have fun with what i have now, no complaining.

[ekimdam]

relax, did you see the wink? ;) here it is again just in case you didnt see it! :p

I suppose I was a bit abrasive, yet not my finest work.... :fencing:



more inline with WHAT THE ORIGINAL POSTER ASKED.


I was merely suggesting an easier alternative to get the desired effect.



now while you were civil with your post about the MR2, you followed the "X is crap, buy Y" formula of the typical elitist so I teased you cause there was some truth there and even if you are or arent an elitist, I was just messing around. take it easy.


Again... merely suggesting an alternate path...

Anyway, you're right, it doesn't matter... but MR2's are still better ;)

:focus:

[Mopar_Nutz]

the worst are the BMW/Porsche guys. "dont waste time with your piece of crap FWD, buy a E30 BMW and spend countless hours fixing just as many little issues as with your FWD dodge and countless dollars modding the chassis so you can spend a few hundred dollars for a few hours on a road course with us and then eat some cheese washed down with overpriced wine after the event"

HEY!!! I like E30 BMW's!!!! :p

[Aries_Turbo]

i like E30 BMW's too. they are my favorite bmw over the 2002. they just happen to be the project car of choice for elitist pricks! :)

Brian

[ShelbyTurbo]

I seccond that, the next car I buy If i can find one, and afford it, will be an E30 M3.

[Birddog]

If you come across an E9 (CSL or CSI no preference) in your search let me know:D

Someone mentioned doing a Dual Twin Fiero which I think would be just as cool as a TD powered ride if not better!

I always wanted to do an X-11 up like that. :evil:

[87turbodance]

How could you not want to drive this?
http://www.fieropride.com/forsale/images/060605a3.jpg
http://www.fieropride.com/forsale/images/060605a1.jpg

[Aries_Turbo]

drool! though i like the notchback with all the GT ground effects better.

Brian

[Birddog]

Personally... The Fiero did nothing for me till that one came out!

[SpoolinGLH]

I always wanted to do an X-11 up like that. :evil:

My dad is putting a 3.8 Supercharged GTP motor in a x-11:hail:

[Aries_Turbo]

hahaha thats awesome.

i saw a olds calais at the track the one night with a 3800sc in it running low 13's. the motor was stock. car was painted bright satin orange lol. he was running "poor mans drag radials" ie snow tires hehehe. the rubber all up the side of the car.

Brian

[Subliminal]

I too have heard the 3.8 s/c is an easy swap and makes great power out of the box in one of those.

[SpoolinGLH]

I too have heard the 3.8 s/c is an easy swap and makes great power out of the box in one of those.

Well the motor pretty much fits in the x-11 like it belongs there. Now the Wiring on the other hand is a pain in the ---.

[Dusty_Duster]

Well the motor pretty much fits in the x-11 like it belongs there. Now the Wiring on the other hand is a pain in the ---.

The wiring is the worst part of any engine swap. :yuck:

[jamesmonty]

I suprised no one mentioned the northstar caddy v-8. With the right kit they drop right in (relatively speaking). 300 hp stock.

http://www.kitcars.com/Classifieds/Pictures/7706-2.jpg

Here is another-->
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/758704/1

[donalson]

known it to be done in a few x1/9's... never seen it personaly but know of them...

buddy of mine and I ocasionly talk of a TD swap into a mkI mr2... unfortunaly i don't have time or a place to do something like that... and he's still working on his N* mr2 http://www.v8mr2.com/ maybe one day :)...

i LOVE the 4ag... but being the tip of the spear when it comes to 16v high reving engines... it's underpowered for such a heavy car like the mr2...

[ekimdam]

known it to be done in a few x1/9's... never seen it personaly but know of them...

buddy of mine and I ocasionly talk of a TD swap into a mkI mr2... unfortunaly i don't have time or a place to do something like that... and he's still working on his N* mr2 http://www.v8mr2.com/ maybe one day :)...

i LOVE the 4ag... but being the tip of the spear when it comes to 16v high reving engines... it's underpowered for such a heavy car like the mr2...

Oh... I dunno. If you have about $15K you could get yourself a nice Toyota Formula Atlantic 4AG engine that'll put out 240HP & 140ft/lbs w/ a redline of 9500rpm. Granted the cams in them aren't exactly that aggressive. Put better cams in one of those and I bet you could get another 20 - 30HP and torque. Then lighten the MR2 up. They aren't overly heavy... @ 2600lbs curb weight depending on the options.

My SCCA E Production MR2 weighs in @ 2100lbs. Next step is to build a better engine... hopefully one to the FA spec. :evil:

[Aries_Turbo]

15k????? that doesnt seem very economical. whats so special about the FA motor that cant be recreated?

if you are going to the trouble, you might as well boost the 4ag

Brian

[ekimdam]

15k????? that doesnt seem very economical. whats so special about the FA motor that cant be recreated?

if you are going to the trouble, you might as well boost the 4ag

Brian

For a competitive race only car, that's a bargin... The bulk of the cost is the TRD crank (@ $5K). There are other things that can be done but the bulk of the major components need to be at or near FA spec to get the 9000rpm reliability out of the motor, so might as well get the FA spec stuff or one already built.

I've found decent used FA engines on a few searches that were anywhere from $6k to $12k in varying conditions. Most of them needed refreshed. The high cost is mainly due to the 'spec' nature of it. A true FA 4AG engine is quite literally a work of art. :nod:



Sadly, turbos and supercharging are not allowed. If it were, I'd be running a MKI with the MKII 2.0T in it.

Now... if we could just get Chrysler to start building spec T2 engines from the 80's or the TIII AND support them well past their prime... Nah, who am I kidding? Chrysler wouldn't do anything like that....

[Aries_Turbo]

oh ok. i didnt realize that you were building a car to spec.

thats not my bag. im a run what you brung/street car dude.

[ekimdam]

oh ok. i didnt realize that you were building a car to spec.

thats not my bag. im a run what you brung/street car dude.

Well I wouldn't exactly say it's to spec... I'm allowed to build up the 4AG to a nearly unlimited spec in E-Prod. The FA engine, which is the pinnacle of a 4AG build, is allowed. Only restrictions I have are the carb choke tube of 38mm and that it must be a N/A 4AG engine. Still should be good for about 140 to 150mph on a decent straight on a road coarse. As it sits now, it's already 2 seconds faster than stock in the quarter.... basically a stock 4AG with mild cams and Dual Weber 48 DCOEs.

Unfortunately Road Racing is not very conducive to a run what ya brung kinda car. Even Showroom Stock classes need to be prepped to be competitive.

But I digress...

Now drag racing on the other hand..... That's what the TURD is for.:evil:

[Aries_Turbo]

i will admit that i do like the FA motor alot for what it provides vs the displacement. but its more like a bike motor. no torque. i used to be into that alot more but you have to beat the crap out of what you are driving to get anywhere. i just roll on the throttle lightly and keep the boost at 5-10psi and im all set for hilly and curvy easygoing driving. i must be getting old lol.

there is a local forum that has a few track days a year at dunnville autodrome (or something like that... ontario canada) and the current cost is only 50$ for the day and its around 3hrs from my house. that i can run what i bring :)

yeah I have a drag strip 12 min from my house. 1/4 mi. :)

Brian