Ran the Shadow c/s VNT

[glhs875]

Car is stock. Converter still on the exhaust, working A/C, balance shafts and all. Tires were small 195/60/15 street radials. I made 2 passes. The best was a 9.76 @ 77mph w/a 2.45 60'. Spun bad in 1st and 2nd gear, and I'm bad out of practice driving a manual trans. car!!! The outside temp was VERY hot as well, it's been 100+ down here! All in all I'm kinda of pleased with it. I'm gonna do a few small, kinda undetectable mods to it. It's my driver. With some slicks, I can see some 8's already in the 1/8th. Next time I'm gonna try shifting into 4th gear instead of running it out in 3rd. I don't know if it will pick up more mph or not, but it's worth a try.

[86Shelby]

Decent runs. Some more practice with a stick will only help.

[glhs875]

Thanks. The car feels slow compared to what I'm used to. Down the road I'm going to put on a stock GLHS intercooler, better exhaust, and a couple of other things. I would like trap speeds in the mid 80's. But it's too nice of a car to get crazy with. That's what my Charger is for.

[GLHS592]

I believe I missed you getting another car.

[Directconnection]

77mph is way more than stock mph. Mine ran 71 stock. You sure someone didn't dick with it a tad before you got it? I am going to guess that it's boosting a bit more than 12psi? Think about it... what does a stock GLHS MPH in the 1/8th? Probably around 73-74 yet weighs 400lbs less.


Check your sbec to see if it's a non stock one that possibly someone swapped in like mine. Remove the snow-scoop thingy/airduct at the front nearest the headlight and peek inside. I have a little plexi-glass window glued in were the chip is mounted. SMECs are different where they are in the backside and have to remove the entire casing.

[glhs875]

77mph is way more than stock mph. Mine ran 71 stock. You sure someone didn't dick with it a tad before you got it? I am going to guess that it's boosting a bit more than 12psi? Think about it... what does a stock GLHS MPH in the 1/8th? Probably around 73-74 yet weighs 400lbs less.


Check your sbec to see if it's a non stock one that possibly someone swapped in like mine. Remove the snow-scoop thingy/airduct at the front nearest the headlight and peek inside. I have a little plexi-glass window glued in were the chip is mounted. SMECs are different where they are in the backside and have to remove the entire casing.

As I said in the past, the car runs decent, and is making around 16psi max boost. The only non stock parts mentioned when I bought the car was some 804 injectors, which I don't think is even needed right now. It's on the rich side of things. I have some good ideas to do to the car. Should make a big difference while keeping things pretty much stock. I'll check the SMEC sometime. This car is a fun daily driver, but I want it to run a little harder!

[glhs875]

I believe I missed you getting another car.


I haven't had the car long. Looks pretty good. It's silver.

BTW, no luck on the trans. rebuild kit.?

[Directconnection]

As I said in the past, the car runs decent, and is making around 16psi max boost. The only non stock parts mentioned when I bought the car was some 804 injectors, which I don't think is even needed right now. It's on the rich side of things. I have some good ideas to do to the car. Should make a big difference while keeping things pretty much stock. I'll check the SMEC sometime. This car is a fun daily driver, but I want it to run a little harder!


ah...missed the 16psi thing. I am wondering how it's making 16psi on the stock sbec, but my suspicion may be true.

It will never replace what you're used to being a VNT until you swap out for a better turbo, but even then compared to your other car's setup... I bet you like the quick spool at 3k or under.

BTW... VNT= sbec, not smec;)

[glhs875]

ah...missed the 16psi thing. I am wondering how it's making 16psi on the stock sbec, but my suspicion may be true.

It will never replace what you're used to being a VNT until you swap out for a better turbo, but even then compared to your other car's setup... I bet you like the quick spool at 3k or under.

BTW... VNT= sbec, not smec;)


It may be with how the vacum lines are routed or something on the boost being higher than stock, I don't know yet. Thanks for the correction on the SBEC. Will the stock VNT SBEC even allow 16psi and still run correctly? I'm going to keep it VNT. At least as long as the turbo works good. Yes, I like the quick spool up. It makes boost as low as 1500rpm and by just free revving. I think I can squeak out another 30 to 60HP out of the basically stock combo from being a little creative. We'll see.

[Directconnection]

It may be with how the vacum lines are routed or something on the boost being higher than stock, I don't know yet. Thanks for the correction on the SBEC. Will the stock VNT SBEC even allow 16psi and still run correctly? I'm going to keep it VNT. At least as long as the turbo works good. Yes, I like the quick spool up. It makes boost as low as 1500rpm and by just free revving. I think I can squeak out another 30 to 60HP out of the basically stock combo from being a little creative. We'll see.

When mine was stock, I would see it flash to like 15 so when circumstances were just right (actually...more like wrong) But, it would give you the very hard over boost cutout. Never looked at the guage, but i think i remember people saying there's a time delay on the shutoff. A few seconds we are talking here... you are boosting for 16psi for a long time. 14.7 like all 2-bar setups. 12psi is stock and verified on both VNT Shadows I own.


FWIW... my 2 VNT shadows never saw boost in neutral. Then again, I never cared to rev the snot out of it in neutral to test, but remember not seeing anything past 0, and full boost no earlier than 2,000,2,100 rpms just like the factory rated the peak torque at.

Did you read the 5digits MOB thread from the sdml archives? I reccomend this. He always reccomended the S60 intercooler for my car as it has much less pressure drop than a T-II cooler. I should have listened to him as I would have gained a boatload of power with that upgrade as the T-IV cooler is very restrictive vs even a stock T-II cooler wich we saw on the dyno. I hate to think how much boost that tiny vnt compressor is actually putting out just to make your 16psi. Try popping in one of your coolers from your fast car in there just to see (being carefull of leaning it out though)


One thing about the VNT...especially if you're running a modified computer. It takes quite a while of cautious driving to get the compputer to adapt to the boost control whenever you dosconnect the battery. Mine was always a
handful. I would leave it in 2nd once the engine was warmed up and then give it 1/2 throttle and watch the guage... then do another jaunt in 2nd gear flooring it at 3,500 rpms and watching the boost, then do it again at 3,000 in 2nd. Maybe 2,500-ish in 2nd. Then, do it again in 3rd gear through all the rpm ranges. Then a few in 4th and your good to go for the most part. Other weird thing was something else was adapting in that computer (the modified one) that the car got stronger as the days progressed for some reason. The boost control on the VNT is controlled in part in spark timing. Retarding it...which also leads to higher egts which can make it boost hard as well... double edged sword. Maybe the sbec was controlling the boost, yet was pulling some timing to do so until it fully adapted. That's my case anyways.

[glhs875]

Thanks for the info. So your saying the timing is retarded more than usual to help with boost control? I'm definitely going to do some kind of an intercooler upgrade. I'll try the GLHS one first, then if it helps maybe something even better down the road.

BTW, I don't have to free rev hard at all to see boost in neutral. Mine doesn't make full boost until higher R's, but it will start making boost not much past an idle when under a load. It's unreal on that part.

[Directconnection]

Something is tweaked. But still... 77 mph is better than my 76mph with my 14psi cal, no cat and FM exhaust manifold and mild head work. I also had a tendancy to over-rev 1st gear instead of the Adler short shifting and also running out 2nd and 3rd to 6,200K+ That must have hurt my MPH. Never ran it after the balance shaft removal and MUCH smarter shifting.

Not sure about timing retard for boost control on the stock sbec, but I know the 1st calibration I had from one chrylser engineer.... it used to do these little hiccups at high rpm. I thought it was plugs, wires, fuel..e.tc...then gave up and just accepted it. They were REAL slight...not as apparant as if you had a bad plug wire (had that before) where you really felt it skip. I was told by another DC engineer that the cal I had, the boost was controlled partly via the spark retardation, which was a catch 22. The 2nd VNT cal I got from the 2nd engineer was smooth and pulled a bit better as well. I gained about 1-2 more mph on the same boost.

The GLHS T-II cooler was swapped into my friend's X-VNT car at my request. car made 245-ish whp at 20psi (S60 turbo) with the VNT cooler. next weekend, T-II cooler went in and no tweaking, it jumped up to 271whp. He told me with the VNT cooler and that S60 turbo, the cooler never got hot on the dyno. With the T-II... after a few pulls, it got hot to the touch. I am sure on the street, it wouldn't matter much. But, imagine a spearco like TU or FWD sells. That VNT could now give you 16psi on the spearco like the VNT cooler would do for you at stock boost level or less. Too bad you weren't so far away... I have one I'd let you try out.

[glhs875]

It sure sounds like something is tweaked with the cal on my car, I'll have to look into that. I haven't noticed any hicups with it at all. I try and shift around 5500rpm. If the GLHS cooler will give me nearly 30HP like it did for your friend, I should trap around 80MPH with only that mod. I also have an idea on how I can really open up the entire exhaust sytem and not have to worry about the boost being out of control. And if I can get the usual 30HP or so from a better flowing exhaust (ported mani, no cat & 3" tubing, this car will be getting pretty darn fast (trapping in the mid 80's). If so, that will handle and out run about 99% of the tuner cars around here and still have working A/C, full & nice interior, and still be basically stock. That's what I want for this daily driver! I think I can pull it off. We'll see.


The cooler you have, what is it exactly, and does it fit in the stock location?

[Directconnection]

It sure sounds like something is tweaked with the cal on my car, I'll have to look into that. I haven't noticed any hicups with it at all. I try and shift around 5500rpm. If the GLHS cooler will give me nearly 30HP like it did for your friend, I should trap around 80MPH with only that mod. I also have an idea on how I can really open up the entire exhaust sytem and not have to worry about the boost being out of control. And if I can get the usual 30HP or so from a better flowing exhaust (ported mani, no cat & 3" tubing, this car will be getting pretty darn fast (trapping in the mid 80's). If so, that will handle and out run about 99% of the tuner cars around here and still have working A/C, full & nice interior, and still be basically stock. That's what I want for this daily driver! I think I can pull it off. We'll see.


The cooler you have, what is it exactly, and does it fit in the stock location?

Well, 1st off... the 25-ish whp gain was on a car running 20psi boost. 2ndly, it had a ported head and manifolds (mild) and a S60 turbo so it was moving more air at 20 cfm than a stock vnt engine at 20 cfm would. Being that case, the ackpressure of the T-IV cooler compounds exponentially. Meaning... hypothetically T-II cooler vs T-IV cooler at 12 psi = small difference like 3 psi pressure drop vs 4psi (made up #s to prove a point). But T-II vs T-IV at 20 psi = 6psi pressure drop vs 9psi. Larry (fcefed4) saw a 7psi pressure drop on the stock T-III cooler on his stock T-III at around 20psi boost

I'd would deifiantely try the T-II cooler, but not be as oprimistic with the gaions as what we saw on the mildy modified VNT to T-II (S60) conversion especially on a stock engine with 16psi boost at this point.

The spearco is a front mount unit. The popular 1080 cfm unit fwd and TU both sell. Inlet and outlet on same side and as far as front mounts go, routing it would be fairly simple. The tubes could easily be run were the stock T-IV cooler is now, but I'd block off all openings afterwards to divert the airflow through the rad, and cooler instead of through the viods.

Maybe try running 2 T-II coolers in parrallel and teed as an experiment?

I will find it hard to run 85 using the VNT at 16psi, but if you really address the head, intake and exhaust manifold combined with the MOB mod, different BOV, exhaust, cal (might have that allready) balance shaft removal, and spearco or similar...I think it can be done!

BTW.... have you seen the thread on TD where everyone is crapping on the VNT? Be careful what you say, though.... I got banned from there from the post I made in defense.

[glhs875]

I'm agreeing with you on your last post. I got the TII cooler installed today. The car feels a little stronger, but I don't know by how much yet. I think it gained about 1 to 2 psi more in third gear. I have to confirm that. Only made a few test pulls. I still have to recheck the tune with the new cooler. I may hunt up a nice front mount cooler for it sometime. This is the only mod I'm doing to it until I run it at the track again to compare numbers with. I'll look at the thread your talking about.

[87csx2.4]

Feels good to be back at the track huh,that car doesnt run to bad for a daily driver.:thumb:

[glhs875]

Feels good to be back at the track huh,that car doesnt run to bad for a daily driver.:thumb:


Yea, I had fun. But the car is kinda slow!!! I'll see if I can fix that a little!

[Directconnection]

Yea, I had fun. But the car is kinda slow!!! I'll see if I can fix that a little!

You know how many people wish they could run a dismal 77mph? you are spoiled!

You know, that makes me think of this month's Mopar Muscle or whatever it was that i was reading on the newstand yesterday. They get about a dozen Mopars to compete at the track for a street car challenge. A few are real performers running low 10s and up to 12s and so. But, they had like 3 or 4 cars that ran no better than 15s! A 440 car running 15s? Something wrong and something very wrong about the poor article. Why even show these cars? I can see a GM r Ford guy scoping out the mopar rag as he's showing a little interest in them since gaining some respect and seeing a magaizine showing 15 second performers? Poor....

[glhs875]

You know how many people wish they could run a dismal 77mph? you are spoiled!

You know, that makes me think of this month's Mopar Muscle or whatever it was that i was reading on the newstand yesterday. They get about a dozen Mopars to compete at the track for a street car challenge. A few are real performers running low 10s and up to 12s and so. But, they had like 3 or 4 cars that ran no better than 15s! A 440 car running 15s? Something wrong and something very wrong about the poor article. Why even show these cars? I can see a GM r Ford guy scoping out the mopar rag as he's showing a little interest in them since gaining some respect and seeing a magaizine showing 15 second performers? Poor....


I agree for a bone stock car it runs pretty good. Well enough to hang with a Mustang GT with a good launch. And yes I'm kinda spoiled I guess! :)

BTW the car is definitely making more HP with the TII intercooler. Feels like maybe 15 to 20HP more. With it mostly in the higher gears. And that's where it needs the most help. I'm still showing over 1.0V from the O2 sensor at WOT. I'm going to put an adjustable fuel reg. on it to see if I can get it down into the .9V's. If it makes more power there, I may try the high .8V's. The car is so rich it smells like rotten eggs after a WOT blast most of the time!

[Directconnection]

That's good to hear. Just make sure the turbo isn't boosting more than 16 or so as they don't last long boosting 18psi;)

Mustang GT... what year? I was able to walk an early 2000-2003 model a couple years ago with mine. His was a standard with nice aftermarket exhaust and a K+N induction setup. This was from a roll a couple times.

[glhs875]

That's good to hear. Just make sure the turbo isn't boosting more than 16 or so as they don't last long boosting 18psi;)

Mustang GT... what year? I was able to walk an early 2000-2003 model a couple years ago with mine. His was a standard with nice aftermarket exhaust and a K+N induction setup. This was from a roll a couple times.

I was just talking about Mustang GT's in general. I haven't raced one. I'm going by track times and mph that they normally get.