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overlordsshadow
07-20-2007, 01:29 PM
How can I tell?

turbovanman²
07-20-2007, 01:56 PM
Older ones had a T stamped on the face, after that, no way of telling without getting the metal tested. If in doubt, just install new valves, there like $10 each, :thumb:

overlordsshadow
07-20-2007, 03:25 PM
Crap deal. Bought a head from a local TD guy who knows I'm using it on a turbo ap and most likely built it for his turbo car. Thing is he had it pressure check, planed, blasted, and cleaned but no 'T's on the valves. Trying to get ahold of him but his phone must not be working. Have those rings got there yet? I'll probly have some spare ones and pistons lol. The head is not the only thing that melted.

shelby zed
07-20-2007, 03:39 PM
yea, i thaught they had ts on them

turbovanman²
07-20-2007, 04:44 PM
yea, i thaught they had ts on them

That stands for Tapered Shroud and will be stamped on the drivers side of the head.

Yeah, got the rings thanks. I should have just sold you them, my Wiseco plans fell thru, :(

overlordsshadow
07-20-2007, 04:59 PM
Well I only needed one and I sent you back 3 of yours since a set for 1 ring is $40! So if my head has 'TS' stamped in it I'm good to go?

shelby zed
07-20-2007, 05:21 PM
ill check mine when i get home for you, ive got a couple turbo heads

overlordsshadow
07-20-2007, 05:44 PM
THX This ones is marked all over with stampings and such. It is an older one for sure.

moparfwdsleeper
07-20-2007, 05:57 PM
I thought it was the intake valves that had T's on them... Ill have to go double check now

turbovanman²
07-20-2007, 06:09 PM
I thought it was the intake valves that had T's on them... Ill have to go double check now

Nope, intake valves are the same for both engines.

moparfwdsleeper
07-20-2007, 06:10 PM
The T is on the intake valves on one(and all) of my 88 turbo heads(only have 88 year ones, dont know about the others)....

turbovanman²
07-20-2007, 06:15 PM
The T is on the intake valves on one(and all) of my 88 turbo heads(only have 88 year ones, dont know about the others)....


Good catch but it doesn't matter for the intake as its cooled by the intake charge, :thumb:

moparfwdsleeper
07-20-2007, 06:42 PM
Simon your correct:D lol You left that in a hard spot to reply back:p

Hope this doesnt read wrong...

I was right on which valves had the T lol sorry bro had to glout(sp?) lol
Simon is 100% correct on the intake valves not mattering.

The exhaust valves I still don't know how to tell them apart. I don't know how to test the metal or have a metal tester on hand... What metals on in the TBI valves compared to the Turbo valves?

JDAWG
07-20-2007, 07:34 PM
I thought someone was talking a while back that you could wiegh them

moparzrule
07-21-2007, 10:06 AM
I've had T's on the exhaust valves and the intakes.

Aries_Turbo
07-21-2007, 11:24 AM
i know my SBI replacement valves have inconel heads.... the stem is magnetic... the head is not. Im going outside to test some valves with a magnet just to see.

my stock factory exhaust valves are non magnetic... I dunno if TBI are the same as I only have one TBI head and its on a motor right now. But i bet if a magnet sticks to your exhaust valves (like they stick to an intake) there is a good chance that they are TBI valves. stick the magnet in the center.... itll stick to the valve seat even if its a turbo exhaust valve so stick it in the center.

Brian

turbovanman²
07-21-2007, 12:19 PM
What about stainless valves?

Aries_Turbo
07-21-2007, 12:40 PM
stainless are usually non magnetic too. you dont really want a total stainless valve unless it has hard steel lash caps.

Brian

zin
07-21-2007, 06:12 PM
IIR, the factory turbo valves are inconel, and would be non-magnetic, so there's an easy test, magnet sticks, can't be a turbo valve, doesn't stick (and is factory) its a turbo valve. Stainless can be trickier as there are magnetic and non-magnetic stainless steels, but as mentioned earlier, you really don't want stainless anyway, inconel is much better in a turbo application.

Mike

Directconnection
07-21-2007, 07:06 PM
What about stainless valves?
A stainless valve is still magnetic. Stainless isn't magnetic, but a SS valve is as it's not 100% SS.

Only the exhaust valves will have a "T" cast into the faces if turbo. On the SDML years back, there was a thread about the "T" on them. Some people had pulled their heads off of turbo engines that were original from the factory and the exhaust valves didn't have the "T" on them.

The "T" wasn't just the older ones, though. I have seen them on both of my '90 VNT Shadows.

Directconnection
07-21-2007, 07:07 PM
IIR, the factory turbo valves are inconel, and would be non-magnetic, so there's an easy test, magnet sticks, can't be a turbo valve, doesn't stick (and is factory) its a turbo valve. Stainless can be trickier as there are magnetic and non-magnetic stainless steels, but as mentioned earlier, you really don't want stainless anyway, inconel is much better in a turbo application.

Mike

I may be wrong, but I don't think factory turbo valves are inconel. They are sodium filled 2 piece valves.

moparfwdsleeper
07-22-2007, 12:55 AM
my factory 88 782 head turbo has the T on the intake, nothing on the exhaust. ^^pic shows it

raccoon
07-22-2007, 01:05 AM
I have 3 89 Turbo heads all have no marking on any valves =(

Destro
07-22-2007, 01:25 AM
This thread got me thinking to check the rebuild I got over what seems to be a credible shop i found off google.
Magnet doesn't stick but there is no markings on valves. The side of the head clearly says S but doesn't look like there was a T anywhere. Is there any ill effects of using a n\a casting on a turbo car?

moparfwdsleeper
07-22-2007, 03:41 AM
the exhaust valves burn up faster with n/a valves. you can use them, but they wont last to long.

Directconnection
07-22-2007, 09:33 AM
I have 3 89 Turbo heads all have no marking on any valves =(


Some shops just swap out the valves. It is possible there were factory screwups, or not all turbo exhaust valves had the "T" on them, or the head was worked on and the shop didn't re-use the same valves from the head. I know the shop I brought my head to I had to argue with the guy to make sure he used my valves as he had a box of them he was going to dig through that were all ground or some crap.

puppet
07-22-2007, 11:20 AM
At some point in the beginning they did have inconel heads ... pretty sure anyway. This was for the early "G" castings. They changed to SS in '85/6?

moparfwdsleeper
07-22-2007, 03:06 PM
Anyone figure out how to tell the difference? This has been on my mind sense yesterday.

Destro
07-22-2007, 04:16 PM
I just checked my old head which came off my 85 daytona.

No TS marking on the casting and no T's on the valves.

The exhaust valves also weren't magnetic.

Does this magnet theory prove to be right or was it just thrown into the discussion?

The head I mentioned a few posts up and the head I just looked at 5 minutes ago also only have the one ac mounting boss which leads me to believe that they are both older. If that matters any

Aries_Turbo
07-22-2007, 09:02 PM
it was an educated guess. I dont have an easily accessible TBI head to test but my theory is that the TBI valves are made from the same material as the intake, IE magnetic. all of my turbo heads have non magnetic exhaust valve heads... the tip that the rocker rides on and the stem are magnetic.

I need someone to test a TBI exhaust valve for me with a magnet. preferably one of those small telescoping neodymium magnets that way you wont me misled by the seat as you can get the entire magnet in the center of the valve.

Brian

overlordsshadow
07-23-2007, 02:51 AM
Ya just checked my exhaust valves and they are non magnetic. Maybe taking a magnet to the wrecker next time might be an idea for one of us.

sundanceRS-turbo
07-23-2007, 03:07 AM
i have a TI head and the T was only on the exhaust valve nothing on the intake. and since we are talking about valves would it burn a 84 or 85 small chamber intake valve if i left it in the head on a turbo aplacation? sorry for being off subject!

zin
07-23-2007, 03:40 AM
I may be wrong, but I don't think factory turbo valves are inconel. They are sodium filled 2 piece valves.

I can't find definitive documentation, but AllPar (http://www.allpar.com/mopar/22-specs.html) does list the TIII valves as being Inconel (MS—6788 (Inconel. 751)). Still, that doesn't help us with the 8V turbo head. The material listed for the TBI head does appear to be "plain steel" (not stainless or Inconel). So it would seem the magnet trick should still work, though it won't tell us the metallurgy.:(

I must say that your comment is the first time I've hear it said that the Chrysler used sodium filled valves, seems kind of expensive for a production piece, not to mention that they can explode if the sodium is exposed to water (yeah, it would have to break, but...). Anyway, I'm definitely looking forward to some definitive info on this, if only for my own ed-u-ma-cation. :D

Mike

moparfwdsleeper
07-23-2007, 10:45 PM
I have a NA head at my grandpa's(lost interest project:p) Ill check the valves next time im at his shop(hoping this weekend).

moparfwdsleeper
07-25-2007, 10:38 AM
it was an educated guess. I dont have an easily accessible TBI head to test but my theory is that the TBI valves are made from the same material as the intake, IE magnetic. all of my turbo heads have non magnetic exhaust valve heads... the tip that the rocker rides on and the stem are magnetic.

I need someone to test a TBI exhaust valve for me with a magnet. preferably one of those small telescoping neodymium magnets that way you wont me misled by the seat as you can get the entire magnet in the center of the valve.

Brian

I ran by my grandpa's shop last night and grabbed a magnet!

The conclusion.... Non Magnetic:( still no way to tell the difference right now.

zin
07-25-2007, 03:57 PM
I ran by my grandpa's shop last night and grabbed a magnet!

The conclusion.... Non Magnetic:( still no way to tell the difference right now.

Was this an unmolested factory head? If so we may still be up the creek... But if it was rebuilt, as mentioned earlier, many of the rebuilders will mix them up or use a valve that will work for anything, in doing so they only have to stock one version instead of two.

I guess if we all weren't so cheap, we'd say forget it and just buy new valves, but that's just not our way.:)

moparfwdsleeper
07-25-2007, 10:06 PM
It is rebuilt, good points... I'm thinking we are up the creek!

Aries_Turbo
07-27-2007, 01:36 AM
i have a tbi head that i wanna see the condition of the block so I might tear it down soon and check. unmolested.

Brian

Wes85L
07-29-2007, 01:02 AM
I have a nos n/a 287 head. The intake valve is magnetic; exhaust valve is not. :thumb:

TurboJerry
07-29-2007, 02:51 AM
Actually any head that is '89 and newer all have the turbo exhaust valves. They won't have the "T" on them. So common block = turbo exh. valves. The only problem though is if the head was rebuilt and they used the cheesy exh. valves. And the magnet test is a way to tell, since inconel is non ferrous like stainless steel. I wish they were sodium filled also!

moparzrule
07-29-2007, 06:52 AM
Actually any head that is '89 and newer all have the turbo exhaust valves. They won't have the "T" on them. So common block = turbo exh. valves.

I'd like some verification on that one, anybody else knew this?

overlordsshadow
07-29-2007, 01:08 PM
I would have guessed that but I have no clue.

moparfwdsleeper
07-29-2007, 01:52 PM
I'd like to know if that is true also...

:Dgot the rest of my +1mm exhaust valves in Friday:D:D:D Cylinder Head is DONE!

Directconnection
07-29-2007, 05:11 PM
I'd like some verification on that one, anybody else knew this?

I will say that my '90 VNT Shadow competition package model... I was the
1st to pull he head off and it did have the "T"s on them, along with the VNT ES Shadow I had as well.

Directconnection
07-29-2007, 08:08 PM
What about g-head exhaust valves? Are we all 100% positive they had turbo specific and TBI exhaust valves back prior to '86? I have about 6 g-heads here along with a box 'o g-head exhaust valves taken from turbo heads...should have been anyways... along with a complete set from a turbo head I stripped a few years back. No "T"s on any of them at all. But, the TBI complete head I have has a weird diamond logo cast into the exhaust valves, wher eall my others (should mostly be turbo valves) have nothing.

2.216VTurbo
07-29-2007, 09:23 PM
Ok, so here's what I know. Early heads (dont know the exact change date and herein lies the rub) all had the "T" on the exhaust turbo valves. Mopar did supersede to 'every head gets the high quality exhaust valves' at some point but when was it?? And like Jerry said, how do you KNOW the rebuilder didn't throw in an old 'early' non-turbo valve in your head?

Now, maybe someone else knows this, when did the valves 'grow' 2mm in length? Is it possiible that all 'long' ex valves are the higher quality material??

Here is what else I know becuse I have found three Jyard cars that met their death because of it for sure... When a non turbo valve is put under stress/heat in a turbo motor, it WILL fail, usually by separating where the head and stem join. As you can imagine, there is not much left of a piston/cylinder wall when the head of a valve bounces around a few hundred times in a 5 second period...:yuck:

Found a TC masi in a yard a few years ago, fresh head, H2O pump, alt, belts/hoses etc. All new top end and a reciept for $4200. in the glove box only 6 weeks old! Guess what, no "T" on the ex valves and the head of one embedded into the #1 Cyl wall. That guy was probably real happy when his 'all new' motor let go after a few weeks... I was real happy to score the Masi specific underhood/interior parts...

TurboJerry
07-29-2007, 11:56 PM
The G heads have the shorter valves. So the 782 heads have the longer ones. I noticed that alot of parts got carried over from the earlier years, so it's best to be careful. I've seen the "T" valves in '91 cars myself, but I have also seen non T valves that were Inconel in the '89 TBI heads. And I speak of heads that were never taken off until I got there. I also know a high volume cylinder head shop that confirmed this because I thought I was running into special cases of this.