Will a 2.4 fit in a Shelby charger ?

[87 charger]

I got a guy here in town that wants to sale me a 2.4 from a stratus. He said he wants 150 bucks. He was going to swap the motor in a neon,but bought a turbo kit for his neon instead. I was thinking the price was good enough,but really don't have a use for it. He said it was suppose to have 60k on it.I seen the 2.4 in kevins daytona,but never seen one in a L body.
Any thoughts on what turbo dodges are easier to do a 2.4 swap to ?
Daytonas,mini vans,P bodies ?

[GLHS592]

Does this answer your question? ;)
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/SDAC15_2_4Charger.JPG

[87 charger]

Whose is that ?
I would guess yours right?
So do you have info on mounts and what did you do about wiring and all the fun stuff like that ? I need to get some information on this if you have any.Man looks like a real tight fit for sure and that the firewall was cut and moved about 6 inches ?

[GLHS592]

That car belongs to Rob Pachner in Ohio. He goes by Ohiorob on TD.com. I have no knowledge of him being here. I've seen the car in person and it is beautiful and fast.

[GLHSKEN]

That car belongs to Rob Pachner in Ohio. He goes by Ohiorob on TD.com. I have no knowledge of him being here. I've seen the car in person and it is beautiful and fast.

He's ohiorob here as well...

[ohiorob]

nice picture Kevin, thanks. the firewall was moved because of the ex. manifold I was using. the swap was almost a dropin. any questions just pm me.

[supercrackerbox]

Man I was stoked to see that car in person at SDAC. Beautiful doesn't even start to describe it.

[GLHS592]

nice picture Kevin, thanks.

I have more pictures that I took. Let me know if you want them.

Rob, your taillights look good too. :thumb:
Don't ask me how I know.

[TurbododgePirate]

I am working on the conversion as well. I hope to have a mockup with the 2.4 block, 2.0 head, NVT 350 tranny, mexican turbo manifold and Holset HY35 turbo here in a couple weeks. Feel free to PM me.~~Heath

[r00tcause]

I am working on the conversion as well. I hope to have a mockup with the 2.4 block, 2.0 head, NVT 350 tranny, mexican turbo manifold and Holset HY35 turbo here in a couple weeks. Feel free to PM me.~~Heath


Same here, but I am looking to get out of the TD game.

The drop in is relatively straight forward. The mexican manifold allows for no need to do any firewall massaging.

The 2.4 will fit in any TD, esp if you use the mexican exhaust manifold and a Neon intake. The space problems are on the firewall and radiator side.

A stratus 2.4 motor mount with a Neons.org 2.4 adapter will bolt on the pass side, and a stock mount will bolt on to the drivers side. The front mount will need to be customized.

[shelbyplaya]

Does this answer your question? ;)
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/SDAC15_2_4Charger.JPG
god damn, that this is amazing!!!!


does it have nawwwwzzzzzzzz? :p

[Mongoose]

I am considering this swap as well. But I want the engine and trans from a SRT4 :eyebrows:

[Xtrempickup]

should fit with some modifications, it will not be a direct bolt in

[supercrackerbox]

I am considering this swap as well. But I want the engine and trans from a SRT4 :eyebrows:

Keep an eye on Ebay, seems like a wrecked one pops up every month or so.

[Scottmon]

Keep an eye on Ebay, seems like a wrecked one pops up every month or so.

You can find a bunch here too: http://www.car-part.com/ It's amazing, really. Most have low miles. :evil:

[rbryant]

How much space does this car actually have from the front of the intake to the radiator support? How much closer is it relative to an 8V car?

I know my huge radiator won't fit but will a stock radiator and slim line fan fit?

Thanks,

Rich

[glhs502]

Is there enough room with the stock SRT-4 manifold/turbo setup or the mexican manifold? Will the 2.4 fit OK with the stock AC compressor? If I pull the engine out of the GLHS a 2.4 needs to go back in..

[turbomopar87]

Isn't Kevin (DodgeZ from BM.com) putting the SRT-4 motor into his Omni?

[r00tcause]

I am considering this swap as well. But I want the engine and trans from a SRT4 :eyebrows:

The Trans should bolt up no problem but the clutch wont work. You need to steal the entire hydraulic clutch assembly from the SRT4. (it doesnt use a cable like ours)

[Jack's Dodge]

The Trans should bolt up no problem but the clutch wont work. You need to steal the entire hydraulic clutch assembly from the SRT4. (it doesnt use a cable like ours)
Check into using a 1st gen neon bell housing with the srt gear box. I knwo of some that have ran that setup with a 2gen gear box. Not 100% sure of how similar the srt gear box is.

[Phreakish]

the 523 and 568 also bolt up to the neon motors dont they? (excluding the srt).

I know at least one other person has done that, and claimed it worked very well and didn't use a bunch of wierd parts or a mistmatch of components.

[PentastarTurbo]

nice picture Kevin, thanks. the firewall was moved because of the ex. manifold I was using. the swap was almost a dropin. any questions just pm me.

PM'ed ya :thumb:

[PentastarTurbo]

wont a 555 bolt up "mostly" to a SRT engine?

[TurbododgePirate]

wont a 555 bolt up "mostly" to a SRT engine?


All the TD trannies will if the appropriate bracketry is made. But why bother with a hodge-podge of jerry-rigged parts when a neon 5 speed will work just fine?

[TurboGLH]

All the TD trannies will if the appropriate bracketry is made. But why bother with a hodge-podge of jerry-rigged parts when a neon 5 speed will work just fine?

It's only one bracket, the front bolt hole doesn't line up and is too high on the trans. I'd also consider a 555 or a 568 to be a much stronger and better suited trans than a t-350 which has a gearset similar to a 520/523.

[r00tcause]

It's only one bracket, the front bolt hole doesn't line up and is too high on the trans. I'd also consider a 555 or a 568 to be a much stronger and better suited trans than a t-350 which has a gearset similar to a 520/523.

Any reason why you couldn't swap the 568 internals into a Neon "A578"?

As for it being "only one bracket"... What about the starter location??

[r00tcause]

Check into using a 1st gen neon bell housing with the srt gear box. I knwo of some that have ran that setup with a 2gen gear box. Not 100% sure of how similar the srt gear box is.

I'd think the 568 stuff would fit better in the 1G housing. I am not sure though.

[DodgeZ]

Isn't Kevin (DodgeZ from BM.com) putting the SRT-4 motor into his Omni?


Yep :nod:

[TurboGLH]

Any reason why you couldn't swap the 568 internals into a Neon "A578"?

As for it being "only one bracket"... What about the starter location??

I don't think the gearsets are similar enough for a swap, unlike the 520/523 gear swap where the mainshaft and input shaft are the exact same design.

As far as starter location, the starter in the back clears the 2.4 block. It's already been done and apparently works like a charm

[r00tcause]

I don't think the gearsets are similar enough for a swap, unlike the 520/523 gear swap where the mainshaft and input shaft are the exact same design.

As far as starter location, the starter in the back clears the 2.4 block. It's already been done and apparently works like a charm

I ?think? the 578 has the same internal dimensions as the 568 and that you can swap the entire set of 568 internals into it.

The last time I looked in on the guy who did the 555/568 on an srt4 motor he hadn't installed a starter yet and didn't know if it would work. It's good to see that it does. For most this is the easiest way to go.

[TurboGLH]

I ?think? the 578 has the same internal dimensions as the 568 and that you can swap the entire set of 568 internals into it.

The last time I looked in on the guy who did the 555/568 on an srt4 motor he hadn't installed a starter yet and didn't know if it would work. It's good to see that it does. For most this is the easiest way to go.

I've only been inside of one t350 before, so I'm not sure of anything concerning a gear swap. If someone local to me wants to work out a time to bring one by that I can open up and do some comparing I'd be willing to take a look at the idea.

As far as the starter install, here's a pic from the thread over on TD.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/TurboGLH/Starter.jpg

[TurbododgePirate]

I've only been inside of one t350 before, so I'm not sure of anything concerning a gear swap. If someone local to me wants to work out a time to bring one by that I can open up and do some comparing I'd be willing to take a look at the idea.

As far as the starter install, here's a pic from the thread over on TD.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/TurboGLH/Starter.jpg


I have 2 here. a NVT350 3.94FD and a NVT350 3.55 FD. The 3.94 was a good low mileage tranny. The 3.55 had a 5th gear synchro issue where it was popping out of gear. I plan to open the 3.55 up here pretty soon and see if I can use it to make the 3.94 a 3.55 FD with the OBX. I have never worked on a tranny before, so this is pretty much new territory for me. ~~Heath

[TurboGLH]

I have 2 here. a NVT350 3.94FD and a NVT350 3.55 FD. The 3.94 was a good low mileage tranny. The 3.55 had a 5th gear synchro issue where it was popping out of gear. I plan to open the 3.55 up here pretty soon and see if I can use it to make the 3.94 a 3.55 FD with the OBX. I have never worked on a tranny before, so this is pretty much new territory for me. ~~Heath

If you could take some pics of the input shaft and mainshaft (assembled and disassembled if possible, not sure how far your tearing the gearset apart) I'd appreciate it. I'm trying to find a set of 1st gen neon service manuals so that I can take a look at the gearset diagrams.

[89acclaim]

This thread used to have good pics.... http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?t=193703

Daniel Merrill

[Bardo]

pic didnt work

[TurbododgePirate]

Will do. I split the case tonight, I'll get some pics tomorrow. I'll prolly tear it apart to the case, if I can use it's parts good, if not, oh well.

[PentastarTurbo]

But why bother with a hodge-podge of jerry-rigged parts when a neon 5 speed will work just fine?

Because I have the Ramsdell signature series 555 all built up and ready to roll.. :)

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/649000-649999/649171_57.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/649000-649999/649171_58.jpg

[DodgeZ]

Because I have the Ramsdell signature series 555 all built up and ready to roll.. :)



It is peanut butter jelly time!!!!!

[DodgeZ]

the t350 case is two halfs just like the motor. the diff comes out at the same time as the gear set....

[DodgeZ]

here is a break down... looks like the shift forks are different

[TurbododgePirate]

I split the case last night... what a pain in the ---.

I plan to tear it down more, but this is my first 5 speed teardown, and I am not sure where to start.

Probably should get service manuals.

[r00tcause]

I've only been inside of one t350 before, so I'm not sure of anything concerning a gear swap. If someone local to me wants to work out a time to bring one by that I can open up and do some comparing I'd be willing to take a look at the idea.

As far as the starter install, here's a pic from the thread over on TD.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/TurboGLH/Starter.jpg


Looks fine to me. Although I would rather have the starter in the front of course.

[r00tcause]

If you could take some pics of the input shaft and mainshaft (assembled and disassembled if possible, not sure how far your tearing the gearset apart) I'd appreciate it. I'm trying to find a set of 1st gen neon service manuals so that I can take a look at the gearset diagrams.

Come to think of it, the 1G neon 5-speed uses the same Quaife as a 568/523 hybrid TD trans, so they have to be somewhat similar!

[PentastarTurbo]

It is peanut butter jelly time!!!!!

http://boostedmopar.com/forums/images/smilies/vbac4767983.gif

[TurboGLH]

Come to think of it, the 1G neon 5-speed uses the same Quaife as a 568/523 hybrid TD trans, so they have to be somewhat similar!

The diff is similar, but the doesn't mean the gearset has to be similar. I'm waiting now for the dread pirate farguhar to post some pics of the gearset so I can see if they're close enough to warrent a closer look.

[PentastarTurbo]

does the srt trans have the starter in the front vs this setup? Ive never really had the chance to look at a srt closeup.. :)

[PentastarTurbo]

any differences between a SRT engine vs a PT Turbo?

Found a complete 05 engine for 1K with 21K on it.. That a decent deal? and its local :)

[TurboGLH]

does the srt trans have the starter in the front vs this setup? Ive never really had the chance to look at a srt closeup.. :)

In the front, all 2.0's and derivatives have a bunch in common, like the 2.2 and 2.5.


any differences between a SRT engine vs a PT Turbo?

Found a complete 05 engine for 1K with 21K on it.. That a decent deal? and its local :)

Intake is different on the pt vs the srt, other than that the motor is the same. How complete is the motor, for a complete running engine with only 21k a $1000 is a screaming deal. It won't handle stupid amounts of power, but you could put down 400whp safely.

[PentastarTurbo]

its a complete drop out engine.. rear ended car.. they took the engine harness and all underhood stuff and just coiled it ontop of the engine.. from valve cover to oil pan, nothing removed other than the engine from the transmission..

Im looking into it..

Id be more than thrilled with the stock srt4's performance under the hood..

[PentastarTurbo]

Hey OhioRob

I honestly no longer want to putz around with the dated 2.2/2.5 engines

What I'd like to know about is if you could give any details on what you had to do to make this work and if you took any pictures of the firewall modification process?

SRT4 eletronics or the use of SMEC/SBEC electronics?
thank you

[Walzbeer]

SRT4 eletronics or the use of SMEC/SBEC electronics?
thank you

the million dollar question.

very interesting thread, but the electronics would baffle me. arent't he 2.4's distributorless? how did you guys get that to work.

[TurboGLH]

Hey OhioRob

I honestly no longer want to putz around with the dated 2.2/2.5 engines

What I'd like to know about is if you could give any details on what you had to do to make this work and if you took any pictures of the firewall modification process?

SRT4 eletronics or the use of SMEC/SBEC electronics?
thank you

SMEC/SBEC without a doubt. You'd have to transplant the whole underdash harness from the srt as well to even get the car started. Once you did that you've now got a state of the art computer that doesn't appreciate you f-ing with it. You'll have to either live with what you can get out of a staged computer or use a piggyback of some kind.

You'll get much better results out of using a early computer with a custom cal.

[contraption22]

The T-350 trannies are pretty tough tho, arent they? I know a couple of them are/were in the 11's and 10's.

[The S is Silent]

If you're going to put an SRT engine into your car, don't even mess with the SMEC/SBEC. Do it right and either get a megasquirt or get an SDS.

[tryingbe]

SRT4 wiring or Megasquirt.

[TurboGLH]

For you guys saying use the srt computer, you do realise that it's not just the engine harness that needs to be used. You have to use the whole under dash as well to retain the skim module. No skim, no start. So now you've completely rewired your car to use the stock srt computer and harness and you're left with no tuning ability unless you use a piggy back.

What the hell is the point of using the newer system if your just going to override it with a piggyback? At least with a smec/sbec (which work just fine) you have the ability to make cal changes or even get one made for your specific ride.

As mentioned, megasquirt would be a good alternative and progress is being made for MSnS to run using the NGC crank trigger so it will soon be a relatively easy install.

[DodgeZ]

For you guys saying use the srt computer, you do realise that it's not just the engine harness that needs to be used. You have to use the whole under dash as well to retain the skim module. No skim, no start. So now you've completely rewired your car to use the stock srt computer and harness and you're left with no tuning ability unless you use a piggy back.

What the hell is the point of using the newer system if your just going to override it with a piggyback? At least with a smec/sbec (which work just fine) you have the ability to make cal changes or even get one made for your specific ride.

As mentioned, megasquirt would be a good alternative and progress is being made for MSnS to run using the NGC crank trigger so it will soon be a relatively easy install.

He is right...

[BIG PSI]

I took some pictures of Rob's Shelby when it was a 2.2 and during the transformation.

So here are some pics.

Chuck

[BIG PSI]

Here are some more for you to look at.

You can see how much work he had to do to get the turbo to fit in the engine bay.

Chuck

[BIG PSI]

If you need anymore pictures just let me know.

Enjoy
Chuck

[The S is Silent]

One of the front mount please :) Are the other mounts just stock? That doesn't look like the neons.org passenger side motor mount adapter.

[Bardo]

i think he did the swap befor you could get the new mount from neon.org

[BIG PSI]

Let me see if I have one of that.

I looked I do not have one but I will be at Rob's house tommorrow to pick up PAT (my 89 Ply Acclaim Turbo car) and I will take my digital and get you some pics. So if you want anything special ask today.

Chuck

[TurbododgePirate]

That makes me feel a lot better about fitting the holset in my shelby charger with the mexican stratus manifold. Looks like it should have plenty of clearance.

Right now I have a stock neon pass side motor mount form the 5 speed that I took and cut about 1/4" off of both sides of the center aluminum section for the ability to move the motor/tranny as much as possible to center the motor. Hopefully it will be enough, but I will mock it up before final assembly.

Additionally I woudl ike to see what motor mount is being used for the front motor mount on the full 2.4 conversion.... Anyone???????? Pics PLEASE!!!

Thanks~~Heath

[TurbododgePirate]

Let me see if I have one of that.

I looked I I do not have one but I will be at Rob's house tommorrow to pick up PAT and I will take my digital and get you some pics. So if you want anything special ask today.

Chuck


Yes, detailed pics of the front motor mount and attachment point from every possible angle.

A picture of the head to firewall clearance taken from the drivers side (yes, I know he modified the firewall, but a pic is good) Plus a measurement if it is easy.

Do you know what axles he has run? TBI omni large splines? Custom?

Thanks!!!~~Heath

[The S is Silent]

Large spline axles should work. The neon guys use shadow axles sometimes (I think), so the splines are the same. Heck, we use the OBX with our axles without a problem.

[PentastarTurbo]

interesting, that looks like an older 2.2/2.5 distributor with some adaptor?

Looks like alot more went into this than just mounts ;)

So neons dont use a distributor fron the factory or they use a different stye where an adaptor can be used to use the old ones for the smec/sbec setup?

Isnt there a different exhaust manafold that would have kept the turbo a scosche close to the head?

So thats basically a stratus engine setup with stronger internals modded for turbocharging?

[The S is Silent]

interesting, that looks like an older 2.2/2.5 distributor with some adaptor?

Looks like alot more went into this than just mounts ;)

So neons dont use a distributor fron the factory or they use a different stye where an adaptor can be used to use the old ones for the smec/sbec setup?

Isnt there a different exhaust manafold that would have kept the turbo a scosche close to the head?

So thats basically a stratus engine setup with stronger internals modded for turbocharging?

Yeah, but you've got to start somewhere...and the mounts seem like a logical place to start.

The neons are distributorless. Spark is controlled by the computer off of crank and cam position sensors. The distributor you see there is a 2.2/2.5 distributor. I've seen somewhere that people slot the intake cam to accept the distributor drive slot, and then make a billet housing to hold it down. You could probably find something on Neons.org about it, or Rob will chime in and say a little more about it.

There have been threads on here and neons.org about the parts you need to get your 2.4 turbo-ready.

[TurbododgePirate]

Isnt there a different exhaust manafold that would have kept the turbo a scosche close to the head?

So thats basically a stratus engine setup with stronger internals modded for turbocharging?

The exhaust manifold I am using is from a mexican stratus that was turbocharged. It is a log very much like out stock TD manifolds, so it will keep it close to the head. Hopefully close enough to fit my HY35 without "clearancing" the firewall with a hammer :)

And I am using a 1996-7 2.4 stratus block with SRT oil pan, oil pump, water pump, hydraulic tensioner, t2 rods from my 2.5, and JE pistons 8:1, and a neon DOHC head that flows 315CFM :eyebrows:

[Frank]

The diff is similar, but the doesn't mean the gearset has to be similar. I'm waiting now for the dread pirate farguhar to post some pics of the gearset so I can see if they're close enough to warrent a closer look.

I cam across some pictures of the insides..
http://dope.dhs.org/Car_Stuff/Tech_Articles/Tranny_Diff_Swap_How-To/page_01.htm


Frank

[Speedeuphoria]

Do you know what axles he has run? TBI omni large splines? Custom?


he told me that he was using omni axles until last year and he now uses shortened minivan axles

He uses a modified 96 neon pass mount, I am using the factory td mount w/ a 1/2 hole drilled for the bolt and toomanyneons adapter from neons.org w/ a stratus block mount(there are 2 versions one for hydraulic and one for mechanical tensioning)
Again this is for an 89 spirit but they are similar
For the front mount I used the factory frount mount on the car and the caravan bracket on the block(just widened it a bit to accept the mount)I don't know how the front mount looks on these cars

here the details
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114648

[DodgeZ]

damn good find Frank.

[TurboGLH]

I cam across some pictures of the insides..
http://dope.dhs.org/Car_Stuff/Tech_Articles/Tranny_Diff_Swap_How-To/page_01.htm


Frank

Thanks Frank. That pretty much confirms that it's not going to work. If you take a close look at this picture...http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/TurboGLH/PICT6034.jpg

You can see that it uses a syncho assembly on the input shaft, similar to the t-850 in the srt4.

[Frank]

What was trying to be accomplished?

[DodgeZ]

Look at the main shaft and ring gear for a SRT4 t850!!! Holy crap.

[TurboGLH]

What was trying to be accomplished?

I had been suggested that the gearset from a 568 could be used in a 578. I was pretty sure that it wouldn't work, but I've only ever seen inside one and it was a while ago so I was looking for pictures.

[r00tcause]

I had been suggested that the gearset from a 568 could be used in a 578. I was pretty sure that it wouldn't work, but I've only ever seen inside one and it was a while ago so I was looking for pictures.


Well that being said, the best method is to use a 555/568 with the L adapter for the bolt thats off-center or an Auto. However, if you've got the time and the parts, i'd go with the srt4's 5-speed. The hydraulic clutch sure makes life easy on your leg.

[r00tcause]

I see a lot of questions so maybe I can throw some info out.

Rob's passenger mount is a 96 stratus mount that was modifed to fit. it's actually much nicer than the neons.org adapter and if you ask nicely he will make and sell you one.

His front mount is custom. There is no mount that works directly.

The drivers mount is of course stock.

The axles used are the same you'd use in any large spline omni setup.

The best way to do the eleectronics is to adapt TD electroncs to the srt4 motor. Basicaly, add the TD sensors and TD TB to the intake manifold, slot the cam, make an adapter to hold the distributor on, and then modify the distributor for reverse rotation. Obviously the car will then need tuning, because the flow is much greater. You can tune with either a custom program or use the old fashioned RRG ADJFPR method.

Also, you are going to want to run TD injectors and harness so you will need a custom fuel rail. (the srt4 rail is returnless and the injectors are different)

[PentastarTurbo]

Where can I see more pictures of OhioRobs Charger? Have you a cardomain site or a project page?