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440SCOUT
07-16-2007, 07:56 PM
HELLO ALL
FIRST THINGS FIRST I HAVE BEEN A MOPAR GUY ALL MY LIFE BUT UNTIL RECENTLY I WAS NOT A FAN OF THE FWD CARS (ANY OF THEM). BUT IN RECENT YEARS ,THE LAST 2 OR SO, I HAVE SEEN THESE CARS RUN TO THEIR POTENTIAL THAT I NEVER KNEW THEY HAD . BOTH CIRCLE TRACK AND AT THE DRAGS.. NOW DONT GET ME WRONG I'M NOT JUMPING SHIP I STILL HAVE MY DART,CHALLENGER,A-100,BARRACUDA,AND MY 440 POWERED INTERNATIONAL SCOUT,BUT I WAS RECENTLY GIVEN A 1990 SHADOW..
IT IS REALLY CLEAN AND HAS ONLY 58,000 MILES BUT THE PREVIOUS OWNERS ARE DECEASED AND HAS MAJOR TITLE PROBLEMS SO I'M JUST GOING TO GUT IT AND DRAG RACE IT .... I SAW A FEW OF THESE TURBO 2.2'S AT MOPARS AT THE STRIP IN VEGAS AND WOULD LIKE TO BUILD SOMETHING LIKE THIS.............
WHAT KIND OF MODS SHOULD I BE LOOKING AT TURBO UPGRADES ? HEAD WORK? CAM ? NITROUS?
HOW MUCH BOOST CAN I CRANK OUT OF THIS BEFORE MAJOR PROBLEMS???
HOW ABOUT NITROUS?? HOW MUCH WITH HOW MUCH BOOST?
I AM NOT INTERESTED IN A FULL ON ENGINE BUILD SO WHAT OTHER CHEAP CHANGES CAN I MAKE..??? I DONT CARE ABOUT LOOKS SO STRAPPING A BIG INTERCOOLER ON THE FRONT OR CUTTING THE FENDER FOR BIG OPEN EXHAUST IS NO PROBLEM EITHER... HAS ANYONE ELSE DONE A GUTTED STRIPPED DRAG CAR LIKE THIS?? I WOULD LIKE TO SEE PICTURES..
I HAVE BUILT SEVERAL CIRCLE TRACK AND DRAC CARS IN THE PAST SO FABRICATION IS NOT AN ISSUE...
THANKS IN ADVANCE...
DOUG

BY THE WAY IF ANY OF YOU LIVE IN THE RENO AREA OR WILL BE HERE DURING HOT AUGUST NIGHTS LET ME KNOW ...
OR IF ANYONE NEEDS ANY OF THE PARTS I WILL BE TAKING OFF ...
LET ME KNOW ABOUT THAT TOO..

EMAIL
SUMGMARIO@AOL.COM

JDAWG
07-16-2007, 08:11 PM
start by reading alot! Anything you can. Go to
www.gusmahon.org
www.thedodgegarage.com
www.minimopar.net
www.dempseybowling.com

Just to name a few sites to get you started

TurboGLH
07-16-2007, 08:17 PM
I'm assuming that it's already a turbo car, and not intercooled. The heads are very poor flowing from the factory and an ungraded head is always desirable, but you're also looking to do this in a budget so I would start with...

Turbo, the stock mitsu is all done at 18-19psi and has very low flow #'s. Even a regular T3 garret would be an upgrade, but a t3/t4 would be better.

Intercooler, get one....Bigger isn't always better, so be reasonably selective.

3" exhaust, for a race car no cat no muffler.

Cam isn't really necessary, especially if you're going to be running a stock head.

The motor itself will handle a decent amount of boost, but the 2.5 pistons are very susceptable to detonation, it won't take much to turn them in to ashtrays.

Nitrous is always a great equalizer, and has a nice chemical intercooling effect. With the stock motor, not much with lots of boost.

In all honesty a good set of forged pistons would make your life a lot easier, so I'd consider the $400 cost to be well worth it.

Directconnection
07-16-2007, 08:18 PM
Tell us about the car you have. Is it a turbo?

GLHS592
07-16-2007, 09:01 PM
Here are a couple good websites:
www.thedodgegarage.com - Look at the turbo database in the menu on the left.
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/

Also, please quit yelling. IN OTHER WORDS, TURN OFF YOUR CAPS LOCK! :)

raccoon
07-16-2007, 09:08 PM
EDITED POST BY ADMIN: He can type however he wants. No need to be petty about the caps lock.

440SCOUT
07-17-2007, 02:32 PM
Thanks For Your Input..
Yes It Is A Turbo But I Thought It Was A 2.2 Not A 2.5...
I Could Be Mistaken
Thanks Again..

440SCOUT
07-17-2007, 02:32 PM
Oops Double Post
Sorry

Turbodave
07-17-2007, 02:51 PM
Welcome to the site! There are a bunch of us here that have owned and do own some old school mopars too, so your not alone.

I got started into the hobby after watching some Shelby Chargers beat up on the new Vipers at the mopar nationals back around 96 or so. After that I bought a turbo Shelby charger and I had more fun driving it than my 73 340 4spd Roadrunner. Been chin deep into the hobby since.

The dodge garage link posted above is a great place to start, read through the turbo database there and you'll learn a lot of good info.

As far as making your car go fast, the stock little mitsu turbo is kind of a bottleneck. Getting even a stock Garett turbo of a factory intercooled car (TII) would be a decent upgrade. With a turbo engine the less restrictive the exhaust the better, so there are some free sawzall friendly hp there. Also adding an intercooler should be on your list of things to do. The above with a manual boost controller, larger injectors and a little tuning should be enough to get you in the mid 13's and possibly even high 12's if you get everything working together properly.

Edit: I merged the two threads together and cleaned up the double post so it's all here for you.

TurboGLH
07-17-2007, 03:56 PM
Thanks For Your Input..
Yes It Is A Turbo But I Thought It Was A 2.2 Not A 2.5...
I Could Be Mistaken
Thanks Again..

Is the car intercooled already? A 90' would be a 2.5 unless it's intercooled, in which case it would be a vnt. Give us the first 10 of the vin.

440SCOUT
07-17-2007, 05:37 PM
is there anything stock that would use a larger injector?? maybe a turbo coupe t-bird (i think those use a 24lb injector.. i had one of those cars too , not too impressive) .
also i have access to some stock wrx subaru turbos ,has anyone done a swap to one of these??
is it worth it??
i know the early svo mustangs and turbo coupes used the garret turbo (86 and earlier models) what are these turbos? t-3's??
the later turbo coupes used the ihi turbo with that small intercooler??
how about intercoolers how big is too big ... i
work at a for dealership so we get diesel intercoolers once and a while but these are huge...
just thinking out loud thanks for listening
:bump2:
i will try to get the vin... i dont think its intercooled , i honestly havent looked too closely at it yet
btw what is vnt, turbo 2, etc

Orangetona
07-17-2007, 05:46 PM
is there anything stock that would use a larger injector?? maybe a turbo coupe t-bird (i think those use a 24lb injector.. i had one of those cars too , not too impressive) .
also i have access to some stock wrx subaru turbos ,has anyone done a swap to one of these??
is it worth it??
i know the early svo mustangs and turbo coupes used the garret turbo (86 and earlier models) what are these turbos? t-3's??
the later turbo coupes used the ihi turbo with that small intercooler??
how about intercoolers how big is too big ... i
work at a for dealership so we get diesel intercoolers once and a while but these are huge...
just thinking out loud thanks for listening
:bump2:
i will try to get the vin... i dont think its intercooled , i honestly havent looked too closely at it yet

The DSM blue top injectors are bigger. About 33% bigger.

Your car should be a 2.5L is it auto or standard? The best upgrade, for stock turbo is to get a turbo from an intercooled turbo dodge. The 2.5L uses a very small mitsu turbo. On the intercooled garretts you can crank out 20 psi no problem. The mistu is usless above 15. A good upgrade for a stock intercooler would be to score one from an SRT4. They make good HP.

dds78910
07-17-2007, 06:31 PM
Hey welcome to the site! There is a couple guys on this site that live in the Reno/Sparks area, I'm 2 hrs away in Winnemucca. If you need any help one of might be albe to help out.

440SCOUT
07-17-2007, 07:18 PM
mine is a manual trans.
i see some people are using volvo intercoolers and i think those would be easier to get..
what kind of volvo should i look for ??
those injectors you are referring to, are they stock in anything??
oh i will be racing in winnemucca (circle track) on friday the 27th (july) if you are not busy you should stop by and shoot the sh!t.. i will be driving the red #333 mustang
.... i know i know ....
(but i really do like those 2.3's)
anyway thanks again
doug

440SCOUT
07-17-2007, 07:48 PM
Welcome to the site! There are a bunch of us here that have owned and do own some old school mopars too, so your not alone.

I got started into the hobby after watching some Shelby Chargers beat up on the new Vipers at the mopar nationals back around 96 or so. After that I bought a turbo Shelby charger and I had more fun driving it than my 73 340 4spd Roadrunner. Been chin deep into the hobby since.

The dodge garage link posted above is a great place to start, read through the turbo database there and you'll learn a lot of good info.

As far as making your car go fast, the stock little mitsu turbo is kind of a bottleneck. Getting even a stock Garett turbo of a factory intercooled car (TII) would be a decent upgrade. With a turbo engine the less restrictive the exhaust the better, so there are some free sawzall friendly hp there. Also adding an intercooler should be on your list of things to do. The above with a manual boost controller, larger injectors and a little tuning should be enough to get you in the mid 13's and possibly even high 12's if you get everything working together properly.

Edit: I merged the two threads together and cleaned up the double post so it's all here for you.

yea when i was in vegas i saw a really rough looking (i think it was a new yorker) that was just smoking all the pt's and neons... im sure it would have beat alot of the V-8 cars too (they seem to exaggerate how fast their cars are) but they were running all the 4cyls together..

JDAWG
07-17-2007, 08:38 PM
dont worry about injectors until you can get a cal to run them. Get an a/f gauge now! lol. Open the exhaust, intercooler the car. May want too look into a tona rad/cooler assmbly and go from there, should be like $150 used. Open up the exhaust, the stock over the axle pipe squishes way down to under 2", get a 2.5 or 3" if you can. Get a g valve and dont mess with the factory boost solenoid, run a line on the compressor nipple to the g valve to the wastegate actuator. Turn it closed tigh and just keep opening it till you get to the 12psi and above area watching the a/f gauge the whole time.
http://www.3barracing.com/product_7.htm g valve
http://www.3barracing.com/product_3.htm a/f gauge

ShadowFromHell
07-18-2007, 10:40 AM
is it a VNT car? that would make sense for it to be a 2.2 stick...

TurboGLH
07-18-2007, 11:40 AM
is there anything stock that would use a larger injector?? maybe a turbo coupe t-bird (i think those use a 24lb injector.. i had one of those cars too , not too impressive) .
also i have access to some stock wrx subaru turbos ,has anyone done a swap to one of these??
is it worth it??
i know the early svo mustangs and turbo coupes used the garret turbo (86 and earlier models) what are these turbos? t-3's??
the later turbo coupes used the ihi turbo with that small intercooler??
how about intercoolers how big is too big ... i
work at a for dealership so we get diesel intercoolers once and a while but these are huge...
just thinking out loud thanks for listening
:bump2:
i will try to get the vin... i dont think its intercooled , i honestly havent looked too closely at it yet
btw what is vnt, turbo 2, etc

The garret turbo's (T3's)used on the ford's are a good upgrade, they use bigger wheels and housings (somtimes) than the T3's used on the earlier dodges.

I like the NPR intercoolers, not a big fan of the volvo's.

As far as injectors go, I'm compiling a list of injectors, stock flow and FP and then corrected flow rate for the standard 43.5psi of FP. It's not complete, but basically the easiest upgrade for you would be a set of turbo DSM injectors, either a set of 1st gen stick or auto's depending on how much extra fuel you need.

http://members.cox.net/turboglh/injectors.htm

Turbo 1 - 84-86 Draw through 2.2 non-intercooled, cast crank, pressed pins, Garret T3

Turbo 1 - 87-88 Blow through 2.2 using TII intake, non-intercooled, cast crank, pressed pins, Garrett T3

Turbo 1 - 89-92? Blow through 2.5, cast crank, TII rods with floating pins, non-intercooled.

Turbo 2 - 87-89 2.2 with forged crank, floating pins, extra head cooling, intercooled, Garrett T3

Turbo 3 - 91-93 16v DOHC 2.2, forged crank, forged pistons, floating pins, intercooled.

Turbo 4 - 90-91 2.2 with forged crank, floating pins, intercooled and VNT (Variable Nozzle Turbine) turbocharger, it used no Wastegate actuator and instead boost was controlled by a set of vanes in the turbine housing that very also used to allow for fast spool with good top end flow.

440SCOUT
07-18-2007, 07:07 PM
dont worry about injectors until you can get a cal to run them. Get an a/f gauge now! lol. Open the exhaust, intercooler the car. May want too look into a tona rad/cooler assmbly and go from there, should be like $150 used. Open up the exhaust, the stock over the axle pipe squishes way down to under 2", get a 2.5 or 3" if you can. Get a g valve and dont mess with the factory boost solenoid, run a line on the compressor nipple to the g valve to the wastegate actuator. Turn it closed tigh and just keep opening it till you get to the 12psi and above area watching the a/f gauge the whole time.
http://www.3barracing.com/product_7.htm g valve
http://www.3barracing.com/product_3.htm a/f gauge

i plan on cutting the exhaust and running it straight out the side...
what is a tona rad cooler??

440SCOUT
07-18-2007, 07:09 PM
The garret turbo's (T3's)used on the ford's are a good upgrade, they use bigger wheels and housings (somtimes) than the T3's used on the earlier dodges.

I like the NPR intercoolers, not a big fan of the volvo's.

As far as injectors go, I'm compiling a list of injectors, stock flow and FP and then corrected flow rate for the standard 43.5psi of FP. It's not complete, but basically the easiest upgrade for you would be a set of turbo DSM injectors, either a set of 1st gen stick or auto's depending on how much extra fuel you need.

http://members.cox.net/turboglh/injectors.htm

Turbo 1 - 84-86 Draw through 2.2 non-intercooled, cast crank, pressed pins, Garret T3

Turbo 1 - 87-88 Blow through 2.2 using TII intake, non-intercooled, cast crank, pressed pins, Garrett T3

Turbo 1 - 89-92? Blow through 2.5, cast crank, TII rods with floating pins, non-intercooled.

Turbo 2 - 87-89 2.2 with forged crank, floating pins, extra head cooling, intercooled, Garrett T3

Turbo 3 - 91-93 16v DOHC 2.2, forged crank, forged pistons, floating pins, intercooled.

Turbo 4 - 90-91 2.2 with forged crank, floating pins, intercooled and VNT (Variable Nozzle Turbine) turbocharger, it used no Wastegate actuator and instead boost was controlled by a set of vanes in the turbine housing that very also used to allow for fast spool with good top end flow.

dsm injectors is that mitsubishi dsm like eclipse /talon??
what about npr coolers is that a brand name or are you talking about the isuzu npr trucks???:confused:

Orangetona
07-18-2007, 07:23 PM
Yes like I said, the DSM talon/eclipse blue top injectors while these give you the biggest amount of fuel, you can get the automatic DSM turbo injectors and the injectors dont flow as much so you can use those if you dont want too much more fuel.

Yeah the isuzu NPR truck intercooler.

Jdawg, you dont need a cal to run the injectors, what did we used to do? ;)

JDAWG
07-18-2007, 09:22 PM
i plan on cutting the exhaust and running it straight out the side...
what is a tona rad cooler??

A daytona radiator/intercooler assembly, it will make a huge difference. Wait was your car already intercooled stock? Its like a more narrow rad with the intercooler beside it. May want to start there and then go bigger as needed.

JDAWG
07-18-2007, 09:25 PM
Yes like I said, the DSM talon/eclipse blue top injectors while these give you the biggest amount of fuel, you can get the automatic DSM turbo injectors and the injectors dont flow as much so you can use those if you dont want too much more fuel.

Yeah the isuzu NPR truck intercooler.

Jdawg, you dont need a cal to run the injectors, what did we used to do? ;)

turn down the fuel pressure or rising rate regulator its just easier now a days to get a cal made. On another note whenever I see your avatar I start laughing so hard i pee my pants lol

Orangetona
07-18-2007, 09:28 PM
LOL well thats intresting. :D