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20w/ashelby
06-27-2007, 11:36 PM
I just wanted to let everyone know right now that I will be at SDAC 18 no matter where it is. If I tell anyone anything different please e-slap me. Also I'll be 21. I can finally go to a show and enjoy parking lot festivities like everyone else.:thumb:

SpoolinGLH
06-27-2007, 11:41 PM
are you gonna change your screenname??? lol....

20w/ashelby
06-27-2007, 11:43 PM
haha yea im working on it. I think im just gonna go with AKA15w/ashelby.

BadAssPerformance
06-27-2007, 11:44 PM
Cool... I'll be there too! btw, I moved this to the SDAC forum :thumb:

SpoolinGLH
06-27-2007, 11:48 PM
I dont care if it is in Egypt, I will be there.

20w/ashelby
06-27-2007, 11:52 PM
From everything I have read this looks like it was the most fun of any SDAC in the last 5-6 years. I went to SDAC 16 but only for show day and race day. I wasnt really hanging out much and wasn't at the host hotel. Next year I will be.

turbovanman²
06-28-2007, 12:52 AM
I'll be there next year for sure, no van though, there all too far away, :(

GLHSKEN
06-28-2007, 09:34 AM
I wouldn't go that far... 15 had good parking lot festivities as well.

Big thanks to the Steel City Chapter. They put on a great show. It was one of the better meets overall. Great people and friendships renewed.

2.216VTurbo
06-28-2007, 09:47 AM
I wouldn't go that far... 15 had good parking lot festivities as well.

Big thanks to the Steel City Chapter. They put on a great show. It was one of the better meets overall. Great people and friendships renewed.


But wait Kenny, I wasn't at 15...:lol:

BTW I can call him Kenny now, we bonded :) Nobody else better try it:whip:

GLHSKEN
06-28-2007, 09:52 AM
That's about the only thing that would have made 15 better than it was.

Allie's a riot in person... Nice going down the track in the 300 and watching him answer the phone at the 1/8 mile and hold a converation all the way to the turn-off.

That nitrous install and the tire carnage that ensued will be tough to top EVER. Hopefully Alan will spread the word out west about the meet and we can meet more of the left-errr-west coast folks.

JamesL
06-28-2007, 10:24 AM
Hopefully Alan will spread the word out west about the meet and we can meet more of the left-errr-west coast folks.

We are probably going to have to do something more middle America to get more West coast guys.

Clay
06-28-2007, 11:13 AM
We are probably going to have to do something more middle America to get more West coast guys.

yeah! Like Topeka! ;) hehe sorry, couldn't resist!

88_pacifica
06-28-2007, 11:21 AM
I'm thinking INDY!! :D

sdac guy
06-28-2007, 11:33 AM
We are probably going to have to do something more middle America to get more West coast guys. Then they better be prepared to come east of the Mississippi. We didn't get ANYONE from a state west of KS last year (except Simon who flew in). And you cannot get much more in the middle of America than Topeka. I don't think we will be having another event west of the Mississippi in the foreseeable future.

Barry

overlordsshadow
06-28-2007, 12:17 PM
I'm for middle America, Only 1700 miles from my place to Topeka. Make it a little higher up and about middle America and mabye some of us Canucks will come. 1700 km or less would be worth it I think.

ShelbyMotorsports
06-28-2007, 01:05 PM
Why not announce the two potential locations now before a final decision is made so members can add their input on each locations pros & cons?

If SDAC has two locations in mind right now why not let the members decide between the two? I never understood the secrecy behind the location and the delay in officially announcing it.

I'm confident that the more SDAC members are kept informed and the more input they provide can only result in a larger turnout.

88_pacifica
06-28-2007, 01:20 PM
Why not announce the two potential locations now before a final decision is made so members can add their input on each locations pros & cons?

If SDAC has two locations in mind right now why not let the members decide between the two? I never understood the secrecy behind the location and the delay in officially announcing it.

I'm confident that the more SDAC members are kept informed and the more input they provide can only result in a larger turnout.

I agree with that.... Illinois somewhere... Chicago maybe...

BadAssPerformance
06-28-2007, 01:20 PM
Having hosted it here, the delay is mostly to make sure that the essentials for the event (hotel, car show area, dragstrip, etc) are available and cost effective.

sdac guy
06-28-2007, 03:53 PM
Why not announce the two potential locations now before a final decision is made so members can add their input on each locations pros & cons?

If SDAC has two locations in mind right now why not let the members decide between the two? I never understood the secrecy behind the location and the delay in officially announcing it.

I'm confident that the more SDAC members are kept informed and the more input they provide can only result in a larger turnout.But that is just the problem Steve (and JT hit it in his most recent post) it is the logistics that really make the determination.

If folks get to vote or poll then there are hard feelings when "their" site doesn't win. And it is worse when "their" site does win and for some reason we can't use it. We went through that with the New England poll 10 years ago. Took a poll on awards night (I even raised my hand for NE), then a ballot in the next newsletter so EVERYONE could vote.

NE won the vote, but the tracks were too expensive or petty with their operating rules, so it couldn't be done. There were NE folks that whined about that for years. "We were promised a convention ..." That started under the former management and continued after I got the club. In hindsight we learned that was a huge mistake. I swore I would never repeat it.

Look what is happening already, just right here. Instead of focusing my attention cleaning up the after convention records and getting that business done, here I sit replying to what I consider a pretty much useless thread. And if I did the poll or voting, it would consume much more of my time and not guarantee any result (because the logistics really control the decision, not popularity).

We don't want to be in the position of getting folks hopes up about a site and then because of something cropping up having to disappoint them. So we do not release where we are considering until we are fairly certain we can make it happen.

There will be much more on this later in the SDAC Members Only forum and on the SDAC mailing list (once I have all the numbers input from this event).

Barry

JamesL
06-28-2007, 05:13 PM
Not to be argumentative but......I think if a few more members from a potential area worked some of the dealers and sponsors in area and came up with a package of financial reasons and resources to have it near their chapter that would go a long way toward mitigating many of the concerns. I don't think this is a useless discussion at all in fact quite the opposite. Again, I think a business meeting of sorts at SDAC would be a good thing.

20w/ashelby
06-28-2007, 05:46 PM
In my opinion some discussion like this is very useful. Figure out some possible sites. Get a few ideas. Then let the local chapter work on all the logistics of the location. The chapters could then give you a report of location, hotels, tracks, pricing for everything and convenience of location. You could then take all of that into consideration from these say 3-4 sites. Looking at it from the business stand point you could decide which two of these are best for the club. After all the research is done there could be a formal vote. This way you would know before the vote if the location will work out.

sdac guy
06-28-2007, 06:10 PM
Not to be argumentative but......I think if a few more members from a potential area worked some of the dealers and sponsors in area and came up with a package of financial reasons and resources to have it near their chapter that would go a long way toward mitigating many of the concerns. I think the Pittsburgh guys did more of that than has ever been done before (and that has been done at nearly every event before). And the result was more items for the goody bags and discounts at area restaurants. Nobody is going to shell out money unless they can clearly see it is ad money well spent (target audience).

Heck, FWDP probably has a lot more money in the ad budget than T-M.com yet you guys didn't even come close to matching their sponsorship level. So obviously you didn't feel it was worth it. And you guys are reaching your target audience at a high percentage level. So tell me why some local business would be willing to give money to an event that more than likely will not return to their area for a few years? It was asked for this year, and it didn't happen.

There was a local Dodge dealer that was going to bring new models to the car show for display. It was all agreed to in advance, but I sure didn't see them on the show field. So obviously in their mind, it wasn't even worth the effort to do that.


I don't think this is a useless discussion at all in fact quite the opposite. Well you are entitled to your opinion. But I think the only thing this discussion accomplishes is that I am forced to say the same stuff again as I do every year after the event.


Again, I think a business meeting of sorts at SDAC would be a good thing. You know what I think?? I think your posts are only here to stir up crap. You and Cindy had me in private for 40 minutes on Saturday afternoon. I waited for your concerns to be raised, yet all I got was small talk from you two. So here you are again posting your opinions in a public thread where I find myself on the defensive. Neither you nor Cindy has EVER contacted me privately with your suggestions or concerns. You only want to talk trash in public, and I'm sick of it. :mad:

Barry

ShelbyMotorsports
06-28-2007, 06:18 PM
But that is just the problem Steve (and JT hit it in his most recent post) it is the logistics that really make the determination.



Well thats where the pros & cons post would come into play.

Lets continue to use Chicago as an example and pretend it was getting more applause compared to another location. That would be the time for you or anyone else to come in and say, Yeah Chicago would be nice but due to costs the registration fee will be higher. The members would then have to decide if they were willing to spend more to have it there.

Better yet why wait for that. If there are two possible locations why not post the info side by side. Post track rental costs for location A and post costs for location B. Post available dates for location A next to available dates for location B.

Same with hotels, food, local attractions, etc. A side by side comparasion should work nicely and common sense would show why the final location was chosen over the other.

Just a suggestion.

GLHSKEN
06-28-2007, 06:25 PM
Guys.. You cannot even begin to understand the level of co-ordination required to pull off one of these events. Been there planned that (MJUCH thanks to the Doyle brothers for legwork)

Let's not sit on the sidelines and second guess. Personally, when I want to say something to Barry, I pick up the ph and call. Public debates are not worth it.

sdac guy
06-28-2007, 06:28 PM
Well thats where the pros & cons post would come into play.

Lets continue to use Chicago as an example and pretend it was getting more applause compared to another location. That would be the time for you or anyone else to come in and say, Yeah Chicago would be nice but due to costs the registration fee will be higher. The members would then have to decide if they were willing to spend more to have it there.

Better yet why wait for that. If there are two possible locations why not post the info side by side. Post track rental costs for location A and post costs for location B. Post available dates for location A next to available dates for location B.

Same with hotels, food, local attractions, etc. A side by side comparison should work nicely and common sense would show why the final location was chosen over the other.

Just a suggestion. For the reasons I mentioned in my previous posting, I'm not really keen on a vote of any type. And BTW, if we have two sites that are that close, the choice Craig & I make really only selects the event for the coming year. The other one would most likely be the following year. So it is not like we are eliminating a site forever, just delaying that area for a year or two. And for that we have all this discussion going on??? :D

Barry

sdac guy
06-28-2007, 06:33 PM
For the reasons I mentioned in my previous posting, I'm not really keen on a vote of any type. And BTW, if we have two sites that are that close, the choice Craig & I make really only selects the event for the coming year. The other one would most likely be the following year. So it is not like we are eliminating a site forever, just delaying that area for a year or two. And for that we have all this discussion going on??? :D

Barry

And the way I see it, people vote by attending. So we have SDAC13 at low 140's attendance and SDAC17 with 136. The two lowest in the last 6 years have both been in the northeast. That is the vote I am interested in.

Memphis was big for 12, Cinci was big for 15, both in the mid-west and not necessarily north.

None of these statistics are lost on me. :D

Baryr

GLHS592
06-28-2007, 06:34 PM
Memphis was big for 12, Cinci was big for 15, both in the mid-west and not necessarily north.

None of these statistics are lost on me. :D

Say the word and I'll check into Beech Bend.

ShelbyMotorsports
06-28-2007, 06:36 PM
And for that we have all this discussion going on??? :D

Barry

Barry look at it this way. Either we are keeping you young or we are putting you in your grave :lol:

If you had only announced the location like you had planned :D

DC Turismo
06-28-2007, 06:41 PM
Has there been a convention yet that did not run smoothly? No. If the event was chaotic then I can see the whole announcing it sooner. But come on guys, Barry has done a great job and these events have been great for as long as I can remember. Therefore, let things be handled how they have been. If you want to propose a meet closer to you, then check with Barry to see what steps you need to take to do so. Otherwise, be patient. :thumb:

ShelbyMotorsports
06-28-2007, 06:42 PM
Memphis was big for 12, Cinci was big for 15, both in the mid-west and not necessarily north.


If these were the two possible locations then this would be when members could post the pros & cons.

Memphis Con: HEAT
Memphis Pro: Burnouts in front of Graceland


Cinci Con: Higher cost??
Cinci Pro: Closer for the North of the Border folks.

sdac guy
06-28-2007, 06:54 PM
Barry look at it this way. Either we are keeping you young or we are putting you in your grave :lol:

If you had only announced the location like you had planned :D Yeah but then my partner would be disappointed with me. I would rather let him make his case for the other site(s) than have that.

Whatever we decide, I am sure it will be just as good for the attendees either way. :D


Has there been a convention yet that did not run smoothly? No. If the event was chaotic then I can see the whole announcing it sooner. But come on guys, Barry has done a great job and these events have been great for as long as I can remember. Therefore, let things be handled how they have been. If you want to propose a meet closer to you, then check with Barry to see what steps you need to take to do so. Otherwise, be patient. Thanks Billy.

Barry

sdac guy
06-28-2007, 06:56 PM
Say the word and I'll check into Beech Bend. I would be interested Kevin, thanks. If you find out anything, please send it privately. Of course no guarantees on going there, but info on a track is always good to have.

Barry

GLHS592
06-28-2007, 07:03 PM
OK. We rented it for our local forum a few weeks back. It's a great track. I sent a PM to my good friend who set it all up.

ShelbyMotorsports
06-28-2007, 07:17 PM
Has there been a convention yet that did not run smoothly? No. If the event was chaotic then I can see the whole announcing it sooner. But come on guys, Barry has done a great job and these events have been great for as long as I can remember. Therefore, let things be handled how they have been. If you want to propose a meet closer to you, then check with Barry to see what steps you need to take to do so. Otherwise, be patient. :thumb:


Billy with all respect don't forget you knew the location for SDAC 17 long before the rest of us so telling the rest of us to be patient is not fair.

I don't think anyone here is demanding to know the location of SDAC 18 right this minute. I'm actually surprised that there was a possibility for it to have been announced at SDAC-17.

All I'm suggesting is that since its now known that there are two possible locations why not let the members have a say before that decision is final.

sdac guy
06-28-2007, 08:29 PM
Billy with all respect don't forget you knew the location for SDAC 17 long before the rest of us so telling the rest of us to be patient is not fair. Not by much though, 2 months maybe? We contacted them in mid January (after a site we had been looking into for more than 3 months fell through) and we announced to our members in March.


All I'm suggesting is that since its now known that there are two possible locations why not let the members have a say before that decision is final. Because in our decision process, we will pick the site that we feel is right for next year. Trust us, we have a little experience behind us.

You are assuming that by putting it to a vote, the right site would be picked just because it is more popular. But there is more that goes into it than that, a lot more.

What we have now is not a toss up by any means. I thought we had a site ready to announce, and Craig suggested looking into someplace else. But Craig's suggested site requires some looking into details, while mine was pretty much a slam dunk. Hopefully we will have an answer to put in the next newsletter, but if not, then we will announce it as soon as we are sure, and not a second before.

If we are waiting until we have our facts in order, why in the world would we move to involve anyone else in the decision process?

Barry

slasky
06-28-2007, 08:36 PM
I trust Barry's judgment. I have attended 15 and 17 and I had a blast. The events were very well organized. As an SDAC member I support whatever Barry does for this club 100%.
The only suggestion I have is to try and have the drag racing at night. However, I am willing to bet that Barry has tried to arrange this before but was unable.

sdac guy
06-28-2007, 08:46 PM
I trust Barry's judgment. I have attended 15 and 17 and I had a blast. The events were very well organized. As an SDAC member I support whatever Barry does for this club 100%.
The only suggestion I have is to try and have the drag racing at night. However, I am willing to bet that Barry has tried to arrange this before but was unable.Thanks Scott. The night time racing has been suggested before. We didn't ask this year as there is a note on the contract that reads, "There is an extra charge of $400 if the track lights are turned on."

There is also a small concern on how it affects our schedule, but nothing that couldn't be worked out if we tried.

Barry

cordes
06-28-2007, 08:49 PM
Thanks Scott. The night time racing has been suggested before. We didn't ask this year as there is a note on the contract that reads, "There is an extra charge of $400 if the track lights are turned on."

There is also a small concern on how it affects our schedule, but nothing that couldn't be worked out if we tried.

Barry

Wow, $400 to crank up some lights. I can see why it was during the day. Night would be nice, but not an extra $400 nice. Call me frugal.

ShelbyMotorsports
06-28-2007, 10:12 PM
If we are waiting until we have our facts in order, why in the world would we move to involve anyone else in the decision process?

Barry

Because thats what I thought car clubs were about. Involving its members and using their input to make the most informed decision.

slasky
06-28-2007, 10:22 PM
And the way I see it, people vote by attending. So we have SDAC13 at low 140's attendance and SDAC17 with 136. The two lowest in the last 6 years have both been in the northeast. That is the vote I am interested in.

Memphis was big for 12, Cinci was big for 15, both in the mid-west and not necessarily north.

None of these statistics are lost on me. :D

Baryr
What was the attendance for 16?

Frank
06-28-2007, 10:25 PM
40 or something small like that and half the people either flew or didn't bring cars. Barry has the real numbers...

Frank
06-28-2007, 10:29 PM
Because thats what I thought car clubs were about. Involving its members and using their input to make the most informed decision.

I feel like I am having repeating memories every year about this... why have an event out west if most of the people wont go? Topeka was a great example. Attendance sucked. I could have swore you were coming since it was closer, but then found out that you backed out. (or that was someone else... so apologies if it wasn't)

So not to sound harsh or speak for Barry, but looking at the past... poor attendance in the mid west to west coast is a pretty good reason to stay east and keep SDAC staying in good $$$ graces.

sdac guy
06-29-2007, 03:59 AM
Because thats what I thought car clubs were about. Involving its members and using their input to make the most informed decision. That works for small clubs or chapters where folks are concentrated in an area. But there is so much involved in putting on one of these events that it is impossible to bring all our membership up to speed so they could make "an informed decision".

But I will tell you what I will do. We will do a "test run".

Everyone vote for either:

1.) Indy 2008 and Columbus 2009.

or

2.) Columbus 2008 and Indy 2009.

And tell my why it makes a difference to you. Don't flip a coin, I can do that. :D

I want to know your reasoning why one site is preferred over the other for this year or next. THAT is an "informed decision". Any vote cast without a reason to back them up will be discarded.

There ya go, vote away!

Barry

supercrackerbox
06-29-2007, 05:10 AM
Then they better be prepared to come east of the Mississippi. We didn't get ANYONE from a state west of KS last year (except Simon who flew in). And you cannot get much more in the middle of America than Topeka. I don't think we will be having another event west of the Mississippi in the foreseeable future.

Barry

Sorry I let you guys down again . . . :p

sdac guy
06-29-2007, 05:43 AM
What was the attendance for 16? We had 66 registered for SDAC-16.

I have some interesting numbers developing for this year's event. Once I have them all I will post up in the SDAC Members Only forum.

Barry

87glhs232
06-29-2007, 09:06 AM
I don't care if 18 is held in Maine...I'll be there. Branden (SoCalCSX) will be coming with me....and maybe Scotty (omniluvr).

As soon as the dates are announced I'm putting in for the time off. Only question is....do I drive the 'S or the 'tona? Or maybe trailer both.....:D

Incidentally, I vote Indy 2008.

Marcus86GLHS
06-29-2007, 09:07 AM
i always wondered: why dont you hold the national SDAC event at the same "best location" every year? like the mopar nats, and dozens of other very successful annual national car events.

pros:
1. everyone knows well in advance of the locale.
2. developing long-term stable relations with local suppliers of services helps control costs.
3. by stabilizing the configuration of the national event we gain prestigue.
4. participants gain familiarity with the locale, helping participants make best plans and relieving all the unknown factors.

cons:
1. what is the "best location?"


i'd be interested in Barry's thoughts on this. i really hope to be at sdac 18.

sdac guy
06-29-2007, 09:19 AM
As soon as the dates are announced I'm putting in for the time off. Only question is....do I drive the 'S or the 'tona? Or maybe trailer both.....:D After our diversion from the standard schedule last year (SDAC16) we are now back to our standard planned annual event that starts the weekend after Father's Day. For 2008 that would mean the dates are June 21 thru the 24 (give or take a day).


Incidentally, I vote Indy 2008. Ah, but you didn't give a reason why 2008 vs 2009. You don't give a reason, the vote doesn't count. :D

Barry

sdac guy
06-29-2007, 09:31 AM
i always wondered: why dont you hold the national SDAC event at the same "best location" every year? like the mopar nats, and dozens of other very successful annual national car events.

pros:
1. everyone knows well in advance of the locale.
2. developing long-term stable relations with local suppliers of services helps control costs.
3. by stabilizing the configuration of the national event we gain prestigue.
4. participants gain familiarity with the locale, helping participants make best plans and relieving all the unknown factors.

cons:
1. what is the "best location?"


i'd be interested in Barry's thoughts on this. i really hope to be at sdac 18. We get this suggestion every year, and we get how about the same location every other year? But we get many more folks telling us that one thing they really like about our events is that we go someplace different every year. They like to change the location for their vacation around. It is about an 8-10:1 ratio to the above comments.

SDAC-10 which we expected to be overwhelmingly good turnout (because SDAC-9 was canceled) ended up being mediocre in attendance. You know what was the reason I heard most why folks didn't attend? "We've been to Michigan already" was the top reason given.

In reality, having it in one spot would really only benefit the ease of planning and the locals that have in their backyard every year. But the reverse side of that is the folks that would have to drive 500-600 miles (or more) to get there, would have to do that EVERY year. With our current system, hopefully it will be close to the majority of our members every few years.

Barry

slasky
06-29-2007, 09:32 AM
I vote columbus 2008 because it is 6 hours away from rochester and hope you find another site for 2009 because indy is 14 hours away.

sdac guy
06-29-2007, 09:41 AM
I vote columbus 2008 because it is 6 hours away from rochester and hope you find another site for 2009 because indy is 14 hours away. There you go! Now that's the spirit! :thumb:

But I think your numbers are a little skewed. It isn't 8 hours to drive from Indy to Columbus. Maybe 4, if towing.

Barry

fleckster
06-29-2007, 10:16 AM
But I think your numbers are a little skewed. It isn't 8 hours to drive from Indy to Columbus. Maybe 4, if towing.

Barry

It's actually only just over 3 hours and that's if you are towing!

boostedblue
06-29-2007, 10:23 AM
I would like to see Indy in 08 than Ohio in 09.Only 4 hours from Chic.Il and well Indy is Indy, thanks :amen:

Frank
06-29-2007, 10:29 AM
I vote Indy in 2008 because I had it easy this year with Pgh being only 4 hours for me. Plus I have never been to Indy.


Frank

cordes
06-29-2007, 10:36 AM
I would like to see indy next year, as it is very close to me, so I could potentially make it out with two cars. I would also enjoy that because that is where my mom lives, so if I blow up a motor or something horrific, I can just have it towed over there.

Myself and Joy really liked the venue this year, and we are looking forward to the event next year partly due to the fact that it will be in a different place. The fact that it movees was mentioned time and again while we were out in the lot, and it was most everyone's favorite part. If we kept it in once place, I doubt there would be bears running in front of peoples cars during the poker run every year with so many new exciting sites to see.

fleckster
06-29-2007, 11:01 AM
Remember that these are only "Hypothetical Voting Sites" and not necessarily the two locations in the running...

I would love Indy as it would be the closest location to me. I brought three cars with me the last time it was there. Columbus would be okay too but I spend a weekend there a year any way since the Mopar Nats are there. The cops around Columbus are ball busters too. (City of Columbus and Reynoldsburg) Oh and the Ohio drivers are scary. (Sorry those of you with Ohio driver's licenses.)

mcsvt
06-29-2007, 11:07 AM
My vote is for Indy in 08. I have never been there, that is my reasoning :)

turboshadow
06-29-2007, 11:19 AM
Remember that these are only "Hypothetical Voting Sites" and not necessarily the two locations in the running...

I would love Indy as it would be the closest location to me. I brought three cars with me the last time it was there. Columbus would be okay too but I spend a weekend there a year any way since the Mopar Nats are there. The cops around Columbus are ball busters too. (City of Columbus and Reynoldsburg) Oh and the Ohio drivers are scary. (Sorry those of you with Ohio driver's licenses.)

ouch fleck im hurt!:( Anyways I wouldnt really mind either there both 2 hour drives away from me:eyebrows:

denviola
06-29-2007, 11:36 AM
IIRC the SRT Nats last year was moved from Indy to Topeka due to cost of event facilities, and more to do in one location.

It will be hard to vote for one or the other objectively not knowing facilities and costs. I really think this poll has no purpose other than appeasing the vocal minority. I agree with Frank, this happens every time. There will be a core group that will go each time, regardless of location. Everyone else will go as able or if convenient. I went to the last two from Pa. without a car, just my pickup (700 & 1100 miles each) and had a blast. A business commitment that I could not get out of kept me from SDAC 17, only 2.5 hours away. And having made the initial attempt to host SDAC 17 in the Pa/Md area and not being able to do so, I better understand the planning and work involved.

Most agree SDAC 15 was likely the best in some time, and I hope 17 was better. There was complaining there at 15 as well as online. An event is what you make it when you are there.

GLHSKEN
06-29-2007, 12:03 PM
Missed you Denny.... Sorry you couldn't make it

ShelbyMotorsports
06-29-2007, 12:35 PM
I feel like I am having repeating memories every year about this... why have an event out west if most of the people wont go? Topeka was a great example. Attendance sucked. I could have swore you were coming since it was closer, but then found out that you backed out. (or that was someone else... so apologies if it wasn't)

So not to sound harsh or speak for Barry, but looking at the past... poor attendance in the mid west to west coast is a pretty good reason to stay east and keep SDAC staying in good $$$ graces.


Well Frank thats the problem right there. Please show me in this thread once were I've mentioned moving the location out west. Keep looking because I haven't.

Same for you Barry. Please show me in this thread once were I've asked for a vote to be taken. You too can keep looking because I haven't.

I'll repeat the only thing I've asked in this thread in as simple of text as I can:

Barry mentioned that he was ready to announce the location for SDAC-18 but at the last minute decided not to because Craig brought to his attention another location that might be better for SDAC-18.

All I did was ask Barry why not post these two locations and see what the members can add that might make their decision easier.

So how the does this thread turn into Steve is demanding a west coast location or that Steve is demanding a vote on the location?

Maybe this will set the record straight since you two are not reading what I am posting. Barry I do NOT want SDAC-18 held within 1,000 miles of the west coast. If SDAC-18 is held anywhere near the west coast I will NOT attend. Barry I do NOT want to vote on SDAC-18's location. If you send me a ballot I will NOT fill it out.

sdac guy
06-29-2007, 12:37 PM
.... I really think this poll has no purpose other than appeasing the vocal minority. Bingo! I thought I would give the hungry masses something to do. Had no idea it would work this well! :lol:

Barry

mcsvt
06-29-2007, 12:46 PM
So my useless vote means nothing? I'm so disappointed ;)

I plan on attending no matter.

88_pacifica
06-29-2007, 12:55 PM
I would be interested Kevin, thanks. If you find out anything, please send it privately. Of course no guarantees on going there, but info on a track is always good to have.

Barry

+1 for Beech Bend.... very cost effective. I went to the Buick Nationals there about two months ago and every year it is awesome. Also... there were peple there from all quadrants of the country.... It is about right in the middle for everybody. Cincy is also another good location. That's where the other Buick GN "cornerstone" is held in September and you can guarantee I'll be there!

From what I am told the midwest tends to be cheaper overall as that is where the cost of business, services, and overall cost of living is the lowest... that's why I would stay here....

However, Chicago would be closer for the Canucks, so that might hold some weight as well...

Barry, I think you did a great job. I would've loved to go this year, but I didn't have the time or "reliable wheels" to make the trip.... :thumb:

sdac guy
06-29-2007, 01:16 PM
All I did was ask Barry why not post these two locations and see what the members can add that might make their decision easier.

So how the does this thread turn into Steve is demanding a west coast location or that Steve is demanding a vote on the location? That is certainly NOT what I meant. In my first reply to you, I did make the jump from additional input as you mentioned to vote. Because there is really little difference, almost only semantics.

That is why I designed my fantasy straw vote poll to give reasons for voting one way or the other. To me the two sites are so similar that there is no advantage for either one in a particular order (this year or next). And most of the reasons given so far are based on convenience (proving that point).

What is convenient for slasky in NY is exactly the opposite situation for someone in MN. So all the "convenient" arguments are a wash from my point of view. Nobody has really given a good reason why either should be one year or the other, except for personal reasons.

Getting back to your early message Steve where I answered the logistics control the decision more than anything, let me give an example. If we had a situation where we had one site with a big motel that could hold all of us and was suitable, and another site where it would take 3 motels but they were all cheaper (by far) then that would be something I might think membership input would useful.

But most of the time we are looking at the bigger items. Like there is a really nice facility we would like to use, but the rest of the setup (mileages to tracks, etc) kind of sucks. So I ask Craig, how can we fix this? What can we do so it doesn't suck so bad? And that is the type of conversation we are having right now (but not exactly).

We have done this a few times before and have some experience in the matter. What we don't need is a ton of suggestions to look through for the nuggets that could possibly be helpful (not likely though) as that is just too time consuming. And the more details we would offer up for suggestion the more this would be compounded.

Until people have the planning of one of these under their belt, they really have no idea how involved it is. Opening it up to member input would make it more difficult for us, it would make our job harder, not easier.

And mind you what is being asked/suggested is not being done to address any problem with the current system. It is only to satisfy the curious. And to me that is not enough justification to do it considering the effort that would be required at my end to filter the responses.

Barry

denviola
06-29-2007, 02:13 PM
Bingo! I thought I would give the hungry masses something to do. Had no idea it would work this well! :lol:

Barry

What a thankless position you are in. I certainly appreciate all you do. It always seems there are those that will bash you for location, cost, club treasury, and any of an unending list of gripes.

If anyone is serious about having the annual meet in your favorite location, it's not hard to do:
1. Find a hotel that can block out 80 or so rooms, especially since they have no idea what their rates are for next year as yet.
2. Find a drag strip that has a free date when you need it, and again determine the cost. Be able to justify why it costs so much to those that probably only will spectate or won't come at all. Oh yeah, it has to be somewhat close......
3. Make sure there are family things to do in the area. Hard to believe that SDAC members have families and may want to do something else. Again, these things have to be close or be prepared to address issues.
4. Source a location for car show, again not knowing what next year's rental rates may be. Nearby is again a must.
5. Obtain support from friends to hold the road rally, poker run or organize a cruise. Don't forget that you will need volunteer help from all of your friends. The same friends that would rather be at the event having a good time than manning it.
6. Help out with goodie bags, sourcing items for giveaways.
7. Anyone for autocross or track day? Wow, that's expensive.
8. Make sure club officers have all the details for posting and newsletters. Don't forget to provide maps.
9., 10., 11., you getthe idea it never ends.

OR do it this way - announce a location for next year now, without events or facilities booked.. Then grow a thick skin, since you will take a beating on the location, cost, date or any other thing that POs someone else.

The event will be where it will be. Suggestions can't hurt. If you want your suggestion to be considered, do some leg work and provide more than your opinion. Close to me just doesn't cut it.

20w/ashelby
06-29-2007, 03:07 PM
In my opinion some discussion like this is very useful. Figure out some possible sites. Get a few ideas. Then let the local chapter work on all the logistics of the location. The chapters could then give you a report of location, hotels, tracks, pricing for everything and convenience of location. You could then take all of that into consideration from these say 3-4 sites. Looking at it from the business stand point you could decide which two of these are best for the club. After all the research is done there could be a formal vote. This way you would know before the vote if the location will work out.

Apparently no one has input on this idea?

I don't think people are as much complaining as they are trying to come together to improve future events. Barry, you do a wonderful job. We're just trying to propose ideas to take some load off. In my opinion planning sooner makes things easier for all parties involved.

Turbodave
06-29-2007, 03:14 PM
Everyone vote for either:

1.) Indy 2008 and Columbus 2009.

or

2.) Columbus 2008 and Indy 2009.

And tell my why it makes a difference to you. Don't flip a coin, I can do that. :D


Ok, I vote for Indy in 2008 and Columbus in 2009.

Why does it make a difference? Indy is a little further west than Columbus, Pittsburgh was East, Topeka west, Cincy East, Chicago West, MD east, Memphis west, Canada East, Detroit West. Now I'm referring to the eastern half of the country where the majority of the members reside. We have a good swing going where the event moves east and west each year, allowing it to be closer some years, farther away others. A balance I would like to keep.

That said, Denny is right on the money with his post above. A lot goes into a convention. I helped with planning SDAC-14 and we pretty much came to Barry with a plan ahead of time, not everything was set in stone, and almost everything changed before the event happened, but having a viable plan before-hand is the key.

Barry, we can discuss this more offline if you would like, but any thought of having an SDAC convention planning comitee that includes the folks that helped plan prior events? I know personally I learned a lot when we hosted the event here, and I'm more than willing to help with the next convention where-ever it is located.

87glhs232
06-29-2007, 03:17 PM
Ah, but you didn't give a reason why 2008 vs 2009. You don't give a reason, the vote doesn't count. :D

Barry

I voted Indy based on my speculation that being in Indy we might be at the Indy Motor Speedway complex....something I would like to be in on. And since I may not make SDAC 19 , I went with Indy 2008. Does my vote count now? :)

Either way I'll be there. 3-4 additional driving hours is not going to hurt my feelings at that point.

Turbodave
06-29-2007, 03:23 PM
Apparently no one has input on this idea?

I don't think people are as much complaining as they are trying to come together to improve future events. Barry, you do a wonderful job. We're just trying to propose ideas to take some load off. In my opinion planning sooner makes things easier for all parties involved.


Your idea is similar to what has happened in past years with the exception of the voting part. The problem is that there really isn't enough time to gather all the details, take a vote and plan the event. I've learned first hand that most places don't want to commit to anything until after the 1st of the year, Most track owners don't return calls or emails, and once you think something might work it will fall through. Also have to consider that many SDAC members are not online, so the only fair way to setup a vote would to be by mail, that adds at least a month for responses to come in.

88_pacifica
06-29-2007, 03:31 PM
.... Also have to consider that many SDAC members are not online, so the only fair way to setup a vote would to be by mail, that adds at least a month for responses to come in.

or an emailed survey.... ;) results in a few days tops. Frank knows I can help there!... :thumb:

20w/ashelby
06-29-2007, 03:38 PM
I agree with you Dave and understand what your saying. I'm just throwing out my ideas. I also think the more input the better the situation will be.

One more thing. I vote SDAC 18 out of ohio. I know a place in Ohio that most likely won't be open until summer and would be too late to organize by that point. But the next year I plan to make an argument for my site that could possibly bring an interesting twist to SDAC.

sdac guy
06-29-2007, 04:19 PM
Apparently no one has input on this idea?

I don't think people are as much complaining as they are trying to come together to improve future events. Barry, you do a wonderful job. We're just trying to propose ideas to take some load off. In my opinion planning sooner makes things easier for all parties involved. The problem is everyone that hasn't done or tried to plan one of these has a fairly simplistic view of what is involved. Denny's laundry list only scratched the surface of what is involved.

Everything you suggested with chapter involvement is already done AFTER the site is determined. To start it off, chapters usually submit some sort of informal proposal outlining the facilities available in their area.

As for starting the planning earlier? Last year Denny & I talked about his plan while we were in Topeka. He started getting folks together to research items as soon as he got home (that would have been in July last year). The key items he mentioned is the problem that hotels and tracks do not really want to talk about reservations or rentings until they have the rates set for that year and that usually happens in January. We have contacted a number of tracks and motels that tell us to call back after the first of the year. It is not unusual at all.

When we announce a site, it is usually not fully researched, just the preliminaries are done. We don't know the motel till the 1st of the year, car show sites and tracks till early spring. We start the planning, but for an event as small as ours, facilities are not willing to jump through hoops for our business. We get the info on their schedule, not ours.

And incidentally if we happen to be in a tourist type of area as SDAC-14 was in Waukegan. Those motels are usually booked solid all season and they do not care if they have our business or not. I know I called a couple dozen motels in 6-8 cities up that way before we found one that wanted our business enough to not charge us $150 per night (and they did give us a great rate for the rooms).

Barry

sdac guy
06-29-2007, 04:21 PM
I voted Indy based on my speculation that being in Indy we might be at the Indy Motor Speedway complex....something I would like to be in on. And since I may not make SDAC 19 , I went with Indy 2008. Does my vote count now? :)
Yep! Great reason! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Barry

sdac guy
06-29-2007, 04:27 PM
or an emailed survey.... ;) results in a few days tops. Frank knows I can help there!... :thumb:

Newsletter by regular mail is the only way to reach all our members, and that is a slow process. The best I can tell, 1/4 to 1/3 of our members do not have email or any online presence.

There will never be a vote, so folks can stop speculating on how it should be carried out.

Barry

Turbodave
06-29-2007, 05:13 PM
There will never be a vote, so folks can stop speculating on how it should be carried out.

Barry

I think we should vote on whether or not a vote is needed :D

cordes
06-29-2007, 05:17 PM
I think we should vote on whether or not a vote is needed :D

I love seeing democracy in action.

85glht
06-29-2007, 05:53 PM
Look what is happening already, just right here. Instead of focusing my attention cleaning up the after convention records and getting that business done, here I sit replying to what I consider a pretty much useless thread. Barry


I don't think it is useless at all.

Just stating a point, that, the sooner people know where the next convention is the sooner people can plan for it. Just my $.02 :amen:

88_pacifica
06-29-2007, 06:29 PM
I voted Indy based on my speculation that being in Indy we might be at the Indy Motor Speedway complex....something I would like to be in on. And since I may not make SDAC 19 , I went with Indy 2008. Does my vote count now? :)

Either way I'll be there. 3-4 additional driving hours is not going to hurt my feelings at that point.

Negative on the IMS Speedway... That is a totally different location and entity than Indianapolis Raceway Park(O'Reilly Raceway Park now.. :mad:). They are not connected in any way and are about 10 miles apart. However, it is the home for the NHRA US Nationals and the number one drag track in the world... I'd LOVE to see it here in Indy, don't get me wrong... but that is unfortunately not a valid reason. :(

Russ Jerome
06-29-2007, 06:34 PM
I think we should vote on whether or not a vote is needed :D

Its like voting on your christmas present, its more fun when
Barry justs happily surprises you with the loaction. No vote.
(he says with a voice that begs for a realy good drag strip
for SDAC18)

DC Turismo
06-29-2007, 06:35 PM
For those saying they can't plan for it unless it's announced like, now, you're full of it. People are able to plan for it long in advance even though knowing that the location isn't announced roughly until the beginning of that year. You are given the dates prior to that even most of the time. To make things simple, block out that length of time with work and don't procrastinate with your project and you're fine.

Rather than ranting about location being announced this early, why don't those of you arguing put your posts to good use, like suggesting different alternatives to what you'd like to see at this event. For instance, I have two examples:

A) One thing that we Steel City Folks overlooked until the last minute was the local go cart track that wasn't too far from the hotel. We noted it in our 'attractions' post, but did not put much emphasis on it. I personally did not think people would have that much time or interest to run up to there, but guess what, they did! Most of the people went there instead of participating in the poker run! LOL So in this case, I'm attempting to say that why don't you make suggestions at points of interest that you would like to be able to take part in at the next convention.

B) Secondly, I was going through some old papers in a filing cabinet last night and came upon a trifold map that the Ohio Valley guys had made for the SDAC-15 which they hosted. This was a map with perfectly laid out points of interest - restaurants, etc. Compared to our listing of these, I wish I would have seen this prior to the event and would've gone ahead and done the same for 17. With this example, I'm trying to say point out some more resources that you would like to see at these events besides the typical informational program.

Think about it, you can argue about all of this until you're blue in the face but even if you're passed out from doing so, the event will still go on. Rather, if you put your posts to use and gear your discussion towards things that could be USEFUL, NOT crap getting in the way, then who knows, maybe your suggestion can be something that would be very helpful to the next event?!

And just like Dave said Barry, any input needed, let me know.

sdac guy
06-29-2007, 06:43 PM
I think we should vote on whether or not a vote is needed :DOkay we have a motion for a vote to see if a vote should be held. Is there a second for that motion? Sorry time's up, motion denied. :lol:


I don't think it is useless at all.

Just stating a point, that, the sooner people know where the next convention is the sooner people can plan for it. It is useless because every year this same thread is started and I answer the same questions endlessly, and nobody remembers any of the answers, and next year I'll be doing it all over again. It will accomplish nothing.

And as for "the sooner people know" well over the last two days replying to this thread has wasted about half my free time. So as it stands right now, this thread has pushed everything back one day, including the announcement. And for the record, I have already stated in this thread WHEN the event will be next year. So folks CAN start making plans.


Negative on the IMS Speedway... That is a totally different location and entity than Indianapolis Raceway Park(O'Reilly Raceway Park now.. No. He got it right. But he didn't mean to race at IMS. When we were at Indy in both 1994 & 1998 we had our car show there and did pace laps around the Brickyard. The photo of my car in my sig is the photo taken of me crossing the finish line there in 1998. Everything but the car has been cropped out, but that is where that photo was taken. If we go back to Indy, IMS will certainly be on our schedule.

Barry

88_pacifica
06-29-2007, 06:47 PM
No. He got it right. But he didn't mean to race at IMS. When we were at Indy in both 1994 & 1998 we had our car show there and did pace laps around the Brickyard. The photo of my car in my sig is the photo taken of me crossing the finish line there in 1998. Everything but the car has been cropped out, but that is where that photo was taken. If we go back to Indy, IMS will certainly be on our schedule.

Barry

Freakin awesome Barry!... I can't wait tilll it comes this way again... :thumb:

GLHS592
06-29-2007, 07:28 PM
Indy! Indy! Indy!

moparman76_69
06-29-2007, 10:22 PM
I would say Indy because:

a. One of the best drag strips
b. close to me
c. be a good chance for OVC and Chicagoland chapters to maybe co-host
d. maybe all of the guys on the boards from indy will show and we can petition to get a chapter based here.

BadAssPerformance
06-29-2007, 11:01 PM
I would say Indy because:

a. One of the best drag strips
b. close to me
c. be a good chance for OVC and Chicagoland chapters to maybe co-host
d. maybe all of the guys on the boards from indy will show and we can petition to get a chapter based here.

I think you would have a better case for Indy if you get the chapter started first :thumb:

fleckster
06-29-2007, 11:06 PM
I would say Indy because:

a. One of the best drag strips
b. close to me
c. be a good chance for OVC and Chicagoland chapters to maybe co-host
d. maybe all of the guys on the boards from indy will show and we can petition to get a chapter based here.

Indy would be great but there is no way we could afford the track rental. According to Barry it was over $3000 to rent the track this year. It was a nice track and surprisingly prepped very well (lots of VHT!) but no where near the size of O'Reily Raceway Park. It would cost us over $5000 to get the track and even with the record number of racers to offset the cost, it would still have to be over $120 each to race for the day. I know people would balk at that price. Even then we wouldn't cover the cost and loose money. We will never be able to pull of Indy again since there are no other near by 1/4 mile tracks unless we would get a partner. After SDAC-16, I wouldn't look for that to happen again any time soon either.

88_pacifica
06-29-2007, 11:12 PM
Indy would be great but there is no way we could afford the track rental. According to Barry it was over $3000 to rent the track this year. It was a nice track and surprisingly prepped very well (lots of VHT!) but no where near the size of O'Reily Raceway Park. It would cost us over $5000 to get the track and even with the record number of racers to offset the cost, it would still have to be over $120 each to race for the day. I know people would balk at that price. Even then we wouldn't cover the cost and loose money. We will never be able to pull of Indy again since there are no other near by 1/4 mile tracks unless we would get a partner. After SDAC-16, I wouldn't look for that to happen again any time soon either.

Fleck... what about Muncie? That can't be too expensive...

fleckster
06-29-2007, 11:15 PM
I think you would have a better case for Indy if you get the chapter started first :thumb:

To the best of my knowledge, there were only four "people" from Indiana at SDAC-17. In addition to myself, there was Clay (and family), Derrick (and he was without car this year I'm sorry to report. His Masi GLHS is sweet!), and Gary Lavengood (and his wife in their beautiful green Shelby-fied Rampage). Not exactly the strongest support for a Chapter.

fleckster
06-29-2007, 11:19 PM
Fleck... what about Muncie? That can't be too expensive...

Muncie is over an hour drive from Indy and therefore not very feasible for inclusion in trying to plan an event in Indy. People would more than likely not be interested in staying at a hotel in Indy, going to the show at The Brickyard, then driving all the way out to Muncie in the middle of no where.

88_pacifica
06-29-2007, 11:35 PM
true....

BadAssPerformance
06-29-2007, 11:49 PM
To the best of my knowledge, there were only four "people" from Indiana at SDAC-17. In addition to myself, there was Clay (and family), Derrick (and he was without car this year I'm sorry to report. His Masi GLHS is sweet!), and Gary Lavengood (and his wife in their beautiful green Shelby-fied Rampage). Not exactly the strongest support for a Chapter.

Having about 50 members total, CL only had a handful at SDAC-17... More people in Indiana area on this forum too...

Clay
06-30-2007, 01:27 AM
yeah, but fleck and I have tried to get a chapter started here, and there are always lots of people who say "yeah sounds good!", but when it comes time to put up or shut up, people never showed up.

I havent given up on the idea of an indy chapter, but right now being a step child of the OVC group is ok with me! :)

sdac guy
06-30-2007, 03:45 AM
Muncie is over an hour drive from Indy and therefore not very feasible for inclusion in trying to plan an event in Indy. People would more than likely not be interested in staying at a hotel in Indy, going to the show at The Brickyard, then driving all the way out to Muncie in the middle of no where. But we did exactly that routine at SDAC-4. It wasn't too bad going out to Muncie in the morning as everyone was looking forward to racing. But it sure seemed like a long drive back to Indy that evening. And of course once we got into town it was rush hour and the folks trailering did not enjoy that experience. At SDAC-8 we used IRP which was nice, but it was expensive even 10 years ago.

Barry

GLHS592
06-30-2007, 08:06 AM
yeah, but fleck and I have tried to get a chapter started here, and there are always lots of people who say "yeah sounds good!", but when it comes time to put up or shut up, people never showed up.

I havent given up on the idea of an indy chapter, but right now being a step child of the OVC group is ok with me! :)

Boy, does this sound familiar. Too bad I'm not close enough to the OVC guys to be a step child. I have pretty much given up on SDAC Mid-South.

GLHSKEN
06-30-2007, 08:35 AM
Heck Kevin, we conside you a stepchild!!! You are always welcome here.

mo' parts
06-30-2007, 11:45 AM
both 15&17 were excellent events!! course those are the only two i have been to so far..... and count me in for 18 as long as i dont have to fly there:)

i enjoy seeing the new places and countryside by having the event change locations(can you tell i have'nt been out of slo-hio much) from time to time.
i also liked how we had a little larger "playground" at 17
for the evening/night festivities, and shops/food locations pretty much within walking distance from the hotel. which im sure there were times when some of us "needed" that. i know i did

as usual the crowd was great, friendly, kind and just overall had positive atmosphere around them. which is great concidering this one seemed a little more family oriented than 15, maybe it was just me... i am taking that into concideration for 18, as i may bring my son with me. had i know there would have been other youngens there, im sure myself and Steve (CUDDA TUGGER)would have brought our boys, as they are getting the t-m bug started early in life:thumb:

oh, i vote for 18 to be where it will benefit SDAC and its members the most, where ever that may be:) and im sure that where ever it is the sponsoring chapter will put on a good show as usual, as most of the members i have met are good outstanding guys/gals.
i know what days i'll be taking for vacation next year, do you?

CSX321
07-01-2007, 01:30 PM
Although I was only able to be there Saturday and Sunday (due to changing jobs and having no time off yet), I was glad to attend my first ODD-NUMBERED SDAC! :) I was at 12, 14, and 16, but missed 13 and 15. And, for a change, this time I was able to drive one of my Shelby Dodges instead of the SRT4. :thumb:

Good to see and talk to people again. Looking forward to coming years, and inspired to put some more work into the '89!

Turbo224
07-01-2007, 04:23 PM
Well, I have zero hopes of an event ever getting this far west, but I know I would have a really hard time coming to one if I couldn't drive my car out there. Probably kills my chances of coming. Maybe one day I ill own a td that will make a cross country trip!

glhs727
07-01-2007, 05:31 PM
Heck, FWDP probably has a lot more money in the ad budget than T-M.com yet you guys didn't even come close to matching their sponsorship level. So obviously you didn't feel it was worth it.

Can you explain what this means? You told James a price and we paid it. I didn't know there was sponsorship levels. In addition, we held the "kick-off party at zero cost to the SDAC. That wasn't cheap either. So if there are different sponsorship levels maybe you should tell us what they are.


Well you are entitled to your opinion. But I think the only thing this discussion accomplishes is that I am forced to say the same stuff again as I do every year after the event.

You know what I think?? I think your posts are only here to stir up crap. You and Cindy had me in private for 40 minutes on Saturday afternoon. I waited for your concerns to be raised, yet all I got was small talk from you two. So here you are again posting your opinions in a public thread where I find myself on the defensive. Neither you nor Cindy has EVER contacted me privately with your suggestions or concerns. You only want to talk trash in public, and I'm sick of it. :mad:

Barry
That is a bunch of bull crap. The main reason is you run the sdac like a dictatorship. We only suggested since you have a captive audience and the largest group of members in one place at the same time, it would be the perfect time to go over club business. Telling me if I want to see the "books" I have to make an appointment with you and go to Michigan to do it is ridiculous. Open the books at the sdac convention for 2 hours, hold a question and answer session, throw out the posibble location and date for the next years convention and let your members have input. Why is that not acceptable? James and I along with lots of members want to see this club flourish. But if you look at the numbers of attendees is going down not up, and I have heard from many it is because they feel they have no input. Everyone will agree that you do a good job getting the conventions organized, and we do appreciate it. BUT this club could grow and the events get better, and your workload be easier if you would let others HELP!!!
If you don't want FWD to help out, or to sponsor, or to be part of future SDAC events, just say so. BUT what you said above is flat out wrong, and as supporters of the club and it's members, I think you owe an apology.
later,
Cindy

rbryant
07-01-2007, 09:12 PM
Has SDAC ever been on the western 1/3 of the country? I think Topeka is about as far west as I can remember it being... Sometime in the next few years it should be in Cali/Oregon/Nevada/Arizona/Texas. I guess the time of year doesn't really work well for west coast summers though.

-Rich

bradp
07-01-2007, 09:44 PM
I vote for Indy and will help anyway I can.

fleckster
07-01-2007, 09:49 PM
This thread cracks me up...

sdac guy
07-01-2007, 09:52 PM
Can you explain what this means? You told James a price and we paid it. I didn't know there was sponsorship levels. In addition, we held the "kick-off party at zero cost to the SDAC. That wasn't cheap either. So if there are different sponsorship levels maybe you should tell us what they are. You took that out of context quite a bit. James said:
Not to be argumentative but......I think if a few more members from a potential area worked some of the dealers and sponsors in area and came up with a package of financial reasons and resources to have it near their chapter that would go a long way toward mitigating many of the concerns.I took this to mean we (or the host chapter) should look to local vendors/dealers for financial assistance for the event. My reply was that first we would need to convince them that it is in their interest to do so. A tough sell when our guys have 20 year old cars (not target audience for new cars), and that we would be in their area for less than a week and not return for a few years if at all.

I then went on to say that FWDP didn't see fit to go beyond the minimum sponsor amount. And that you guys know you are reaching your target audience, so if you didn't want to go beyond that, it would be a harder sell to a new car dealer. That was my point. I also used the example of the dealer that was supposed to bring new cars out to the car show, but didn't, noting that he must have felt even that much was not worth it. My entire comment was to disprove what James claimed above (that local dealers would be willing to contribute money).

As far as sponsorship levels, no there are not various levels. But this is what I told James in a PM here when he inquired, "The minimum sponsorship fee this year is $200, but more than that can be given and it is entirely at your discretion. " I think that is pretty clear.


That is a bunch of bull crap. The main reason is you run the sdac like a dictatorship. No I run it like it is my business, which it is 100%. You own a business, do you want others telling you how to run it? If not, I feel the same way.

SDAC is a not-for-profit social club. It is incorporated as that. I never had any input into the by-laws when our attorney drew them up in 1999. As far as I know, he pulled them right out of a book for non-profit social clubs incorporated in Michigan. But in those by-laws I have the option of appointing officers and directors as I see the need. Also in those by-laws, members do not have voting privileges in decisions made by the officers or directors. I live by the rules Cindy. If you don't like those rules, too bad.


We only suggested since you have a captive audience and the largest group of members in one place at the same time, it would be the perfect time to go over club business. And I moved that portion of James' original post to the SDAC Members Only forum and addressed that issue there.


Telling me if I want to see the "books" I have to make an appointment with you and go to Michigan to do it is ridiculous. No it isn't. I could make copies for you .... but, ... I don't trust you, or what you would do with them. So if you want to see them, you are welcome to come look at them.


Open the books at the sdac convention for 2 hours,Why, what would it solve other than just curiosity? Since I am already so pressed for time at the event, why just for curiosity sake, should I set aside two hours that I don't have spare to begin with? No, you see it as convenient for you, and that is all you care about, YOU.


hold a question and answer session, throw out the posibble location and date for the next years convention and let your members have input. Why is that not acceptable? The problem with all this is you have an overwhelming tendency to underestimate the complexity of the situation or decision process. It is so simple to YOU. But it is not a simple task, and it cannot be explained fully even in a few hours. And the truth of the matter is, the process we go through to decide a location is so involved with things that members can't input on, that to ask member's their opinion as you describe would not be pertinent to the decision process.

Example (in case you have not read anything else in this thread), we have a site that we know will be popular, the planning for it would be easy on us, the local folks are a great group. To me it is a slam dunk, I was ready to announce it at SDAC-17, just to be ahead of the game for once.

But Craig says, hey I got an idea, how about this area? And starts to explain the options (most of which I already knew). So now we first have to see if what we would like to do there is even possible. Sort of like a feasibility study. Member input for this is absolutely useless. We don't even know if we can put it all together yet. So when you ask us to get folks involved, do you see how you are putting the cart before the horse, so to speak?

What we do now is to get the local folks there to make inquiries for us, and to contact the venues ourselves to see what their rules are, to see if we can even rent the place. This is so far removed from anything a group of members can contribute to, that to say anything would only get hopes up, and then if it doesn't come to pass, folks would be disappointed. I'm not going to do that.


James and I along with lots of members want to see this club flourish. But if you look at the numbers of attendees is going down not up, and I have heard from many it is because they feel they have no input.Part of that is because folks misunderstand the member terms. There has never been anything on our website or newsletter stating that paying dues gives the member the right to say how things are done. From my track record on implementing suggestions, many can attest to the fact that I do listen to them. So I don't ignore folks. But new suggestions are few and far between, so if someone suggests something that has already been evaluated, then they are given that evaluation in response.


Everyone will agree that you do a good job getting the conventions organized, and we do appreciate it. BUT this club could grow and the events get better, and your workload be easier if you would let others HELP!!! Many others do help. I've just never asked for your help, and that is because I don't like you. I don't like you because you only want to talk trash online. For your concerns, you have never emailed me, phoned me, or as I pointed out, even when you and James were in my room Saturday putting your flyers in the goody bags, you only chose small talk. I was ready for the big questions Cindy, and they never came.

What you may find surprising is that I am really much more open and not defensive when not being beat up on in a public forum.


If you don't want FWD to help out, or to sponsor, or to be part of future SDAC events, just say so. BUT what you said above is flat out wrong, and as supporters of the club and it's members, I think you owe an apology.
later,
Cindy What you want to do or not do for SDAC members is up to you. You may get a public apology when I am convinced you are sincere in your concerns, and not just raising them so I can be your whipping boy online. And right now that is a long way off for me.

Barry

sdac guy
07-01-2007, 09:59 PM
Has SDAC ever been on the western 1/3 of the country? I think Topeka is about as far west as I can remember it being... Sometime in the next few years it should be in Cali/Oregon/Nevada/Arizona/Texas. I guess the time of year doesn't really work well for west coast summers though.

-Rich The problem is Rich, the area of the country is really dictated by if we can at least break even on the event. With Topeka in the physical center of the country we hoped the turnout would be better, but it wasn't and we lost money on it.

Our membership is extremely top heavy east of the Mississsippi, so the further we go west the fewer that will make the trip from the east. We went to the SAAC X does Vegas last year (Craig went, I couldn't make it) and even SAAC has trouble getting the turnout in the west. But the number of our cars/members there was very poor.

All of this adds up to the fact that unless we can find a way to hold a bare bones event that costs us next to nothing (less than a couple grand) there is no way we can have an event out west.

Barry

Dodgeglht
07-02-2007, 12:05 AM
I've been reading this whole thread & I can say it's ridiculous. This year I didn't make my first SDAC because of poor planning. By the time I was serious about going I had no cash & when I did have the cash no rooms were available & more importantly the car was not ready.

Bottom line, everyone's entitled to their opinion on where it should be & everything, but all that should matter is having fun when it happens. I've seen the other posts on how much fun those that went had, & that makes me want to go to next years SDAC. I plan on going next year, so I say just let sdac_guy do his thing & quit complaining where it will be.

After all, if you go regardless why does it matter where it is?

Keito
07-02-2007, 07:40 AM
Just my .02$
I think it's a blast for me to drive to and from SDAC with my friends, and hang in the parking lot till 5 am.
If the event was local for me, I wouldn't get to do either.
I know my wife would not let me pay for a hotel if it
was within a 1/2-1 hour of home.
I enjoyed talking with you Monday night Barry, when Jay and I came down to pick up my goodie bag.
Amazed me you can remember all the attendance # from the past SDAC's.
Keep up the great work!:thumb:

Keith

dodgeshadowchik
07-02-2007, 09:30 AM
wherever it is next year, i'm going to really try and go. :)

i can't beleive that local dealers and such wouldn't being any cars out to the show. I mean, I see new cars being brought out to what are considered true "classic car" shows... and those cars are much older than the turbo dodges. I guess they feel that the turnout of SDAC is not as large as these other shows and therefore not worth thier time.... which is kinda sad.

I'm sorry to see ths thread take a turn towards bashing. I can see his point on keeping major SDAC decisions left up to a few people; as people get dissapointed when thier suggestions or ideas are not used.

Anyways, I hope that things will get resolved! I personally do not think FWDP meant any harm in thier statements... and from my dealings with them, they are nice! Perhaps thier suggestions were not mentioned at the event because they didn't think of them until after the fact? Or perhaps a pm or email would have been better in hindsight. I think this group of people are some of the most friendly car enthuisents around and hope that this matter can get resolved! I really don't believe any harm was meant.

JamesL
07-02-2007, 10:44 AM
Whoa there now Barry, no need to blow a gasket over some conversation and suggestions. You are far too defensive here. I haven’t read the entire thread at this point and I [probably shouldn’t. Since when can’t a person make a few suggestions? I think the Pittsburgh guys did a great job. Personally, I would have liked to have had some road racing and auto-crossing but budget didn’t permit. My only point was that possibly with some Turbo Mopar ingenuity, a chapter or group of chapters could do some fund raising and put a financial package together to lobby SDAC to have the event in their area. Kinda of like what cities do to get the Olympics. I was not degrading anyone’s effort, simply trying to express an idea that helps SDAC fund a better event and motivates members to try to get the event in their area. Simple as that!



Heck, FWDP probably has a lot more money in the ad budget than T-M.com yet you guys didn't even come close to matching their sponsorship level. So obviously you didn't feel it was worth it. And you guys are reaching your target audience at a high percentage level. So tell me why some local business would be willing to give money to an event that more than likely will not return to their area for a few years? It was asked for this year, and it didn't happen.

What the hell is that? Are you kidding me? We didn’t feel it was worth it? For the last several years, shutting a business down, traveling across the country, registrations fees, kick-off parties, give-aways, event sponsorship, paid participation in the events…since when did you start offering sponsorship levels or keeping score? Why would you want to politicize this? And, as the club president, is it wise to turn away sponsorship funding for an event that you claim struggles financially?



There was a local Dodge dealer that was going to bring new models to the car show for display. It was all agreed to in advance, but I sure didn't see them on the show field. So obviously in their mind, it wasn't even worth the effort to do that.

Promoting an event takes more than a phone call. But I guess your point is that nobody wants to support it. If that’s the case so be it. I would argue that some people are better at promting, procuring sponsors and seeing that they follow through than others. This might be evidenced by a group of highly motivated Turbo Mopar enthusiasts putting a package together to lobby SDAC to come to thier area. That winning group gets to grin because they don’t have to haul across the country. But I’m repeating myself again.



Well you are entitled to your opinion. But I think the only thing this discussion accomplishes is that I am forced to say the same stuff again as I do every year after the event.

And this why a meeting at SDAC is a good forum for face to face discussion. But its only a suggestion and I don’t see why anyone would have to get so defensive about it.



You know what I think?? I think your posts are only here to stir up crap. You and Cindy had me in private for 40 minutes on Saturday afternoon. I waited for your concerns to be raised, yet all I got was small talk from you two. So here you are again posting your opinions in a public thread where I find myself on the defensive. Neither you nor Cindy has EVER contacted me privately with your suggestions or concerns. You only want to talk trash in public, and I'm sick of it. :mad:
Barry

Barry, the only one crapping on this thread is you. We don’t have any concerns other than the concern that the event and the club last well in to the future. We really enjoy it. What’s wrong with posting opinions in public. And actually when I read what I’ve said….”To get more people from the West Coast you may have to be more middle America”…what the hell is wrong with that? And to suggest that areas compete to have the event near them…that’s a win for SDAC and for the industrious group that does that. Here’s an opinion….seems your sick of anyone who has an opinion or suggestion and wants to have some constructive discourse. Really Barry you’ve gone off the reservation here and now I’m forced to read the rest of this thread on my stinking vacation. Thanks.

James

JamesL
07-02-2007, 10:58 AM
Newsletter by regular mail is the only way to reach all our members, and that is a slow process. The best I can tell, 1/4 to 1/3 of our members do not have email or any online presence.

There will never be a vote, so folks can stop speculating on how it should be carried out.

Barry
I say vote with your pocket book. You want the event in your area, give Barry some solid financial incentive to bring it so that registration fees do not have to carry so much of the cost.

JamesL
07-02-2007, 11:06 AM
Indy would be great but there is no way we could afford the track rental. According to Barry it was over $3000 to rent the track this year. It was a nice track and surprisingly prepped very well (lots of VHT!) but no where near the size of O'Reily Raceway Park. It would cost us over $5000 to get the track and even with the record number of racers to offset the cost, it would still have to be over $120 each to race for the day. I know people would balk at that price. Even then we wouldn't cover the cost and loose money. We will never be able to pull of Indy again since there are no other near by 1/4 mile tracks unless we would get a partner. After SDAC-16, I wouldn't look for that to happen again any time soon either.


I don't want this to be construed as "stirring up crap" but someone should suggest that we plan to have our event with another club thereby taking advantage of economies of scale. I'm not going to do it. Sometimes when you’re on a tight budget you have to come back to some proven techniques. And I didn't say that either.

JamesL
07-02-2007, 11:20 AM
No I run it like it is my business, which it is 100%. You own a business, do you want others telling you how to run it? If not, I feel the same way.


OK, this explains it all. When this discussion took place at the other site, it was not clear to me why SDAC was called a business and would be treated as such. I thought it was a car club similar to the Hill Country Car Club I organized several years back. Barry is right, I didn’t read the fine print related to membership/subscription. I am WAY out of line and so is anyone to tell another person how to run their business. I sincerely apologize Barry and wish you and SDAC, Inc. the best of luck.

James

sdac guy
07-02-2007, 11:45 AM
OK, this explains it all. When this discussion took place at the other site, it was not clear to me why SDAC was called a business and would be treated as such. I thought it was a car club similar to the Hill Country Car Club I organized several years back. Barry is right, I didn’t read the fine print related to membership/subscription. I am WAY out of line and so is anyone to tell another person how to run their business. I sincerely apologize Barry and wish you and SDAC, Inc. the best of luck.

James I'll reply to this series of posts in inverse order. Thanks James, apology accepted. Read on, you will find I own up to a couple mistakes I've made here also. And I will also explain more about my point of view regarding your & Cindy's posts.

(actually on the articles of incorporation papers it is Shelby Dodge Auto Club, Inc. :D )

Barry

sdac guy
07-02-2007, 12:09 PM
I don't want this to be construed as "stirring up crap" but someone should suggest that we plan to have our event with another club thereby taking advantage of economies of scale. I'm not going to do it. Sometimes when you’re on a tight budget you have to come back to some proven techniques. And I didn't say that either. The comment from me about stirring was completely in regards to the second time you suggested a business meeting at the convention.

Here is what you originally posted in your first post in the thread SDAC Thoughts.
Think of it as another event at SDAC. An agenda might include SDAC planning, officer election, finance reporting, by-law amendments and general all around club business. I edited that out of the public thread post, and copied your entire post and thread name to the Members Only forum. I have no problems with discussing club business candidly in the members forum, but I do not care to do this in a public thread.

90% of the folks on this board are not SDAC members, and about 99% on td.com. For public consumption, I prefer to keep club business low profile, and only have comments on the positive aspects of our events, club, and chapters.

So I copied your post with the above comment to the members area, replied to it and waited for a comment from you in return. None came. But then in this thread you mentioned the business meeting again. Before I go on, I must note that the topics you suggested discussing above (at a business meeting) are those exact same topics that Cindy has hammered me with over and over in the past both on here and on td.com and only in public threads, never in a members only area. Every single time I have told her that I would prefer to keep such discussions in the members only area. And then the next time it is right out here in a public thread again.

A few times I have moved the discussion to the the members area, but this one got out of hand too quickly (and that was pretty much my fault). So when you brought up the business meeting at the convention here (for the second time total) I decided to respond a little stronger.

It was only AFTER I replied that I realized that while Cindy has access to the members only area, your login does not. And I mentioned to a couple of folks that I kinda felt bad about ripping on you when you couldn't see my reply there. But I was so ticked off about it all because the entire thing was exactly as Cindy has done to me in the past (many times), so I didn't edit my posting to correct my words.

Had all of this occurred in the members only forum, it would never have taken as much of a confrontational twist from me.

Barry

sdac guy
07-02-2007, 12:57 PM
I say vote with your pocket book. You want the event in your area, give Barry some solid financial incentive to bring it so that registration fees do not have to carry so much of the cost. Well, I don't know if that would work. That would kind of eliminate areas that don't have the chapter presence, or direct member participation to carry it off. More to come on this ...


Whoa there now Barry, no need to blow a gasket over some conversation and suggestions. You are far too defensive here. I haven’t read the entire thread at this point and I [probably shouldn’t. Since when can’t a person make a few suggestions? I think the Pittsburgh guys did a great job. Personally, I would have liked to have had some road racing and auto-crossing but budget didn’t permit. My only point was that possibly with some Turbo Mopar ingenuity, a chapter or group of chapters could do some fund raising and put a financial package together to lobby SDAC to have the event in their area. Kinda of like what cities do to get the Olympics. I was not degrading anyone’s effort, simply trying to express an idea that helps SDAC fund a better event and motivates members to try to get the event in their area. Simple as that! I have no problem with suggestions or comments or discussion. I have a problem when someone gets an answer from me, ignores it and continues to hammer me on the same topics (like your wife frequently does).

Actually Billy & Co. really did an outstanding job. Den Viola started working on a site sort of mid to east PA or DE immediately after SDAC-16. But after a few months he came back to me and said they were having no luck getting answers or info on the items we discussed while in Topeka. It was about that time that Billy happened to post in a thread how the Pittsburgh area could be a good venue.

I told Billy that since we were fresh out of areas to look at, to gather some basic data for a proposal. It looked good to Craig & me so we gave Billy the go ahead. One of the biggest obstacles he had to overcome is that many folks local to him in his chapter, didn't believe him and he came back to me a couple times asking if it was for sure. :nod:


What the hell is that? Are you kidding me? We didn’t feel it was worth it? For the last several years, shutting a business down, traveling across the country, registrations fees, kick-off parties, give-aways, event sponsorship, paid participation in the events…since when did you start offering sponsorship levels or keeping score? Why would you want to politicize this? And, as the club president, is it wise to turn away sponsorship funding for an event that you claim struggles financially? First you also have taken my comment a little out of context. But in the spirit of trying to patch things up, I will admit to putting my 'spin' on that. I get so tired of the way Cindy twists things around and puts her spin on items, that I thought maybe it was time I did a little of that. Note, I was still pissed off at that moment.

I'm sorry for the comment, it was a tad over the top, even though I thought it made my point stronger.

In regards to the statement I made about the car dealer you replied:

Promoting an event takes more than a phone call. But I guess your point is that nobody wants to support it. If that’s the case so be it. I would argue that some people are better at promting, procuring sponsors and seeing that they follow through than others. This might be evidenced by a group of highly motivated Turbo Mopar enthusiasts putting a package together to lobby SDAC to come to their area. That winning group gets to grin because they don’t have to haul across the country. But I’m repeating myself again. It was a done deal with the car dealer. When the chapter guys there approached them for support (goody bag or door prize items) they asked if they could bring some cars to the show. And the guys that worked there asked if they could bring their classic rwd Mopes also. It was all fine and good to go. I have no idea why the didn't show up, and I really don't care. We had a good show and that is all that matters now.


Well you are entitled to your opinion. But I think the only thing this discussion accomplishes is that I am forced to say the same stuff again as I do every year after the event.
And this why a meeting at SDAC is a good forum for face to face discussion. But its only a suggestion and I don’t see why anyone would have to get so defensive about it. If folks don't pay attention to what I write online (repeatedly every year), why should I believe they would believe or remember what I would say face to face?


Barry, the only one crapping on this thread is you. We don’t have any concerns other than the concern that the event and the club last well in to the future. We really enjoy it. What’s wrong with posting opinions in public. And actually when I read what I’ve said….”To get more people from the West Coast you may have to be more middle America”…what the hell is wrong with that? And as I replied, last year, Topeka, can't get much more middle America. Nobody came, well not enough. To consider that only about 1/3 the attendance of Cinci came to Topeka, less than half of those attending this year went to Topeka. I don't think middle America is viable at all. East of the Mississippi is where we have successful conventions.


And to suggest that areas compete to have the event near them…that’s a win for SDAC and for the industrious group that does that. Here's how unrealistic that is. Since Billy made a proposal for PA early this year, we have had NO other proposals submitted. I came up with a site, and Craig came up with a site. And we are weighing the benefits and liabilities attached to both sites at this time.

I'm not sitting here on a stack of proposals that folks have submitted and need some incentive to swing it one way or the other, or make one more favorable than the other. I wish that was the problem. Kevin Isenberg did sent me the info on the place he suggested earlier. It looks like it would be a great venue to me. So maybe we have a third place to look at for this year or next. But the drawback already is that it is an area where we have very few local members to do any legwork there for us.

Barry

shay
07-02-2007, 01:04 PM
I don't really have the time to read though all the six pages of bicker back and forth. :)

Any location.. and I'm sure Ryan and I will be making our first trip to an SDAC event next year. Just my two cents.

ShelbyMotorsports
07-02-2007, 01:24 PM
We went to the SAAC X does Vegas last year (Craig went, I couldn't make it) and even SAAC has trouble getting the turnout in the west. But the number of our cars/members there was very poor.


Well to be fair that is not completely true. SAAC has no problems with western convention attendance and are currently holding this years convention in UTAH as we speak.

Besides the 2007 Utah convention they recently held the 2005 convention in California and the 2002 convention was also in California. So three national conventions in the last 5 years shows western attendance is not a problem.

The SAAC Does Vegas event was started about 10 years ago when the Las Vegas track opened along with Shelby's Series One car production facility and was never intended to be anything close to a annual convention. It has always been a small event that concentrated mainly on track activities for the Ford owners. The Dodge crowd was invited last year because the event was taken over from SAAC by Shelby Automobiles to promote the current Shelby vehicles being manufacured there.

BadAssPerformance
07-02-2007, 01:28 PM
I don't really have the time to read though all the six pages of bicker back and forth. :)

Any location.. and I'm sure Ryan and I will be making our first trip to an SDAC event next year. Just my two cents.

That's the spirit! Heck, you'll probably bring a Spirit too! :thumb:

shay
07-02-2007, 01:30 PM
That's the spirit! Heck, you'll probably bring a Spirit too! :thumb:
LOL, if one of them happens to be running at the time.. :)

BadAssPerformance
07-02-2007, 01:31 PM
LOL, if one of them happens to be running at the time.. :)

LOL.. story of my life. I can honestly say after this year not haviing a car that SDAC conventions kickass even without a car to bring! :thumb:

GLHS592
07-02-2007, 02:21 PM
I'm not sitting here on a stack of proposals that folks have submitted and need some incentive to swing it one way or the other, or make one more favorable than the other. I wish that was the problem. Kevin Isenberg did sent me the info on the place he suggested earlier. It looks like it would be a great venue to me. So maybe we have a third place to look at for this year or next. But the drawback already is that it is an area where we have very few local members to do any legwork there for us.

Bowling Green isn't that far from me. I have relatives and my wife has relatives that live there. We could spend some time up there in order for me to do a little leg work.

shay
07-02-2007, 03:02 PM
LOL.. story of my life. I can honestly say after this year not haviing a car that SDAC conventions kickass even without a car to bring! :thumb:
If all else fails, we can bring the SRT.

sdac guy
07-02-2007, 03:11 PM
Well to be fair that is not completely true. SAAC has no problems with western convention attendance and are currently holding this years convention in UTAH as we speak.

Besides the 2007 Utah convention they recently held the 2005 convention in California and the 2002 convention was also in California. So three national conventions in the last 5 years shows western attendance is not a problem.

The SAAC Does Vegas event was started about 10 years ago when the Las Vegas track opened along with Shelby's Series One car production facility and was never intended to be anything close to a annual convention. It has always been a small event that concentrated mainly on track activities for the Ford owners. The Dodge crowd was invited last year because the event was taken over from SAAC by Shelby Automobiles to promote the current Shelby vehicles being manufacured there.

My misunderstanding then. I was going only by what Craig was told by SAAC folks that were in attendance.

Barry

ShelbyMotorsports
07-02-2007, 03:25 PM
My misunderstanding then. I was going only by what Craig was told by SAAC folks that were in attendance.

Barry

I'm not doubting that the SAAC Does Vegas attendance has dropped from past years especially when the National SAAC convention has been held out west three times during the last five years.

As a SAAC member I know thats been the case for me. I've previously attended the Vegas events but haven't gone in the last couple of years because of so many SAAC conventions being held close by and because if I'm going to Vegas for a Shelby Dodge event its going to be The Mopars At The Strip event.

Here's a link to some pics from last years vegas event. May not be the largest vegas event but its not like it was a ghost town.

http://www.shelbyautos.com/gallery.asp?car=saac06day3

Turbo224
07-02-2007, 07:07 PM
Maybe this is none of my business, but shouldn't you guys have taken this discussion to private messaging LONG ago? Most of this is just an argument, and I dont think it needs to be posted for everyone to read. If it has something to do with sdac 18 than by all means, post is, but if its just a dissagreement over policy between two people, maybe keep it private and cut and paste the stuff that is important into this thread. Just a freindly thought. Not accusing anyone of anything.

20w/ashelby
07-02-2007, 07:49 PM
I sincerely apoligize for starting this thread. If you look at my first post it's kind of a shame this thread ended up where it is. Barry I'm sorry you have the attitude you do on this topic. You say this is the same thread that comes up every year. You're 100% correct.

Every year people comment on the past year's SDAC. Every year people offer helpful suggestions. Every year you shoot down every suggestion. Every year you state that SDAC is either breaking even or losing money. If this is truely a business maybe you should change your thought process a little. That's what I would do if my business was repeatedly losing money.

Now I'm not trying to make a personal attack at you. I'm sorry if it seems that way. I'm just trying to summarize the way myself and I think others take your statements.

Next time I'll start this thread in the lounge and maybe it will stay on topic.

Frank
07-02-2007, 08:08 PM
Barry is very much about suggestions. I think you misunderstand him.

I think Barry's point is that there are a few people who, at inopportune times, complain about its location instead of providing input in a very reasonable manner. Instead of asking things like where is Barry coming from and being trusting of a trust worthy guy, offering up support and help to investigate new areas or options, etc, they decide to immediately do what you see above.... everytime, like clock work. It has been this way EVERY year since I first hopped onto these various forums 5 years ago! I know it irritates the piss out of me when I see these people harp on Barry over the way he runs things. He gives plenty of information. Believe it or not, Barry goes off of suggestion! I know myself and several others all suggested Western PA. Now I think he already had some ideas he brewed, but I like to feel special. ;) Guess where the majority of the member base is? Not west coast or even south... sorry everyone, but remember the following pictures? So for me, seeing these conversations all the time makes me want to gouge out my eyes and destroy other people's keyboards.

Frank

PS> That was not directed at you 20w/ashelby... its just me ranting about the situation in general and how stinky it is.


SDAC Member Base
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2254&d=1160649480
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2255&d=1160649480
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2256&d=1160649480

TM Member Base
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vbgooglemapme.php

20w/ashelby
07-02-2007, 08:18 PM
I also want to chime in one more time. I agree with you Frank. I want to say that after reading my above post it came off a little more offensively than I intended it.

I decided before I comment on this anymore I should become an SDAC member. That is done now. As a member feel free to contact me barry. I would be interested in helping organize an event in columbus as there has been some talk about it.

Frank
07-02-2007, 09:05 PM
I also want to chime in one more time. I agree with you Frank. I want to say that after reading my above post it came off a little more offensively than I intended it.

No sweat!

I decided before I comment on this anymore I should become an SDAC member. That is done now. [/QUOTE]

Awesome dude! Make sure you click on this now that you are a member!
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/profile.php?do=editusergroups


Frank

20w/ashelby
07-02-2007, 09:48 PM
got it as soon as I joined

sdac guy
07-02-2007, 10:32 PM
I sincerely apoligize for starting this thread. If you look at my first post it's kind of a shame this thread ended up where it is. Barry I'm sorry you have the attitude you do on this topic. You say this is the same thread that comes up every year. You're 100% correct.

Every year people comment on the past year's SDAC. Every year people offer helpful suggestions. Every year you shoot down every suggestion. Every year you state that SDAC is either breaking even or losing money. If this is truely a business maybe you should change your thought process a little. That's what I would do if my business was repeatedly losing money.

Now I'm not trying to make a personal attack at you. I'm sorry if it seems that way. I'm just trying to summarize the way myself and I think others take your statements.

Next time I'll start this thread in the lounge and maybe it will stay on topic.

I am not offended by your post at all. But let me explain a little. Yes, this thread appears every year. And every year I try my best to explain the situation. But only a few recall the conversations from the past, most just chime in, it is the way of internet forums.

One thing folks seem to remember is that I turn down a suggestion. I evaluate every suggestion to see if it is practical, workable, needed, and if it would benefit our membership. It doesn't necessarily need to have a positive indication for all those items, but certainly if it gets too many of them negative, then it is not something I will put into practice. It can then be suggested by 100 more people but that will not change the evaluation, so it will get turned down 100 more times.

Folks seem to home in on that aspect and it is fairly easy to do. I have implemented quite a number of suggestions from folks over the years. The most recent big suggestion was last year to team up with another club to save cost on our event (while providing our members with an opportunity to have drag racing, autocross, and road course). While good in theory, and seemingly positive on nearly all counts, the location was poor and we didn't get adequate turnout.

Nearly everyone, including myself, had a great time at SDAC-16, but after the event, a number of our members, some who attended it and some who didn't told me privately that they really liked our stand alone events, and didn't care for the dual event much. There were things that were part of the planning that were out of my control, and that were not to my liking (nor our members who attended). But giving up that control was part of the cost of joining in with another group. From the overall experience, it is unlikely we will repeat that 'suggestion'. So from experience, that one has gone from a yes, to a no.

It is our goal to at least break even on the convention. And we would like to see every event we hold to pay for itself. The drag racing this year did not do that. I feel most of the reason was because of the cost to rent the track was high, and that meant the fee we charged needed to be higher than ever. While we lost money on the drag racing, it was not enough to jeopardize the event in any way. So it is all good from my view.

SDAC is NOT losing money. When I was new to this, I listened to a lot of folks suggestions on what we should have for events at our conventions. And those events (road racing & autocross) put us in severe debt status as we only took in about half or less what it cost to rent the tracks. So we are now in the process of paying off that debt. With the exception of last year, every convention we have held since SDAC-14 has made a tidy sum of money and the debt has been reduced substantially.

If there is any threat to future convention events, it is the cost of insurance. Most drag strips now include liability insurance coverage in the track rental fee. But insurance cost has made road course and autocross impossible for us to hold by ourselves. And the insurance premiums continue to rise for the same amount of coverage.

I haven't priced coverage for road course or autocross since SDAC-14 but it was $2500 per day back then. That is for $2 million in liability coverage. Every additional $1 million in liability coverage was another $1000 in premium. Most road courses now require greater than $2 million coverage (usually from 3-5 mil). So $5 mil in coverage costs $6500 just in insurance for the day. And track rental is on top of that.

Blackhawk Farms near Chicago gets about $5000 for the basic rental. Add in corner workers and ambulance and it approaches $7000 real quick. And how many people do we get to sign up for the event. Since SDAC-10, we have never had even 25 people sign up. At SDAC-14 there was a road course event held by some Mini-Cooper folks that our guys joined in on. We had a dozen there. Last year at Topeka, we had 10 of our members drive the road course.

Barry

DC Turismo
07-03-2007, 12:53 AM
After seeing that map it sure does surprise me that turnout at this year's event was not as high, if not higher like I expected, in comparison to SDAC-15. That is perfect illustration of evidence to show why the events are held where they are each year. Thanks Frank!

fleckster
07-03-2007, 03:18 AM
I think one of the issues that always plays into the attendance is the "timing factor" as I like to call it. It's just the nature of our cars. We seem to break something just before the event and despite best efforts, the car isn't ready to make the trip. As a result, even people with in a hour don't come to the event. It's a shame really! Since many of these people haven't been to an SDAC Convention, they don't even realize that you can have a ton of fun and not even have your vehicle there! Just ask those who rented a vehicle to thrash on at the event this year! I know big time SDAC supporters and Forum members (who shall remain nameless) who haven't had they prize car available for several years yet still make the event despite the long distances because they know it's about the friends you have through the cars that make the event! In fact without a car to stress over by detailing it for the show, tuning or even repairing at the track, they can relax, help others, and have more fun! Think about it! Then make plans to be there, regardless of the location, vehicle or not! Fly, hitchhike, carpool, rent a car, or whatever to get there. You won't be sorry!

Orangetona
07-03-2007, 07:12 AM
I think one of the issues that always plays into the attendance is the "timing factor" as I like to call it. It's just the nature of our cars. We seem to break something just before the event and despite best efforts, the car isn't ready to make the trip. As a result, even people with in a hour don't come to the event. It's a shame really! Since many of these people haven't been to an SDAC Convention, they don't even realize that you can have a ton of fun and not even have your vehicle there! Just ask those who rented a vehicle to thrash on at the event this year! I know big time SDAC supporters and Forum members (who shall remain nameless) who haven't had they prize car available for several years yet still make the event despite the long distances because they know it's about the friends you have through the cars that make the event! In fact without a car to stress over by detailing it for the show, tuning or even repairing at the track, they can relax, help others, and have more fun! Think about it! Then make plans to be there, regardless of the location, vehicle or not! Fly, hitchhike, carpool, rent a car, or whatever to get there. You won't be sorry!

Absoutely correct. I went out to the event and didnt have my daytona going but you know what? It didnt matter all that much, I had a great time. Heck you dont even need to do exactly what the schedal is calling for. You can do what you want basically. We did that to an extent, when there wasnt an event going on we did other things. IE, the slide! :) Although the event was going on but it was super fun. Its about the cars but more importantly, fun.

GLHS592
07-03-2007, 07:18 AM
After seeing that map it sure does surprise me that turnout at this year's event was not as high, if not higher like I expected, in comparison to SDAC-15. That is perfect illustration of evidence to show why the events are held where they are each year. Thanks Frank!

SDAC-13 surprised me. Disapointed would be a better word. I still can't believe we didn't have 250 plus people there considering it was in "everybody's" back yard.

I'd be curious to see a Google map for SDAC members only.

sdac guy
07-03-2007, 08:07 AM
SDAC-13 surprised me. Disapointed would be a better word. I still can't believe we didn't have 250 plus people there considering it was in "everybody's" back yard.

I'd be curious to see a Google map for SDAC members only. I agree 1000% It has always puzzled me why the turnout was so low there. I think the massive rain the previous few days had something to do with it. There was flooding everywhere.

I don't have a google map breakdown, but maybe when I get a couple free moments I will do another state by state survey and post up numbers in the members forum.

Barry

Frank
07-03-2007, 08:13 AM
SDAC-13 surprised me. Disapointed would be a better word. I still can't believe we didn't have 250 plus people there considering it was in "everybody's" back yard.

I'd be curious to see a Google map for SDAC members only.

The google map pictures is SDAC members only. That link is for TM only who have registared their location.

GLHS592
07-03-2007, 08:15 AM
OK. I was thinking it was TM members only. Thanks for clearing that up Frank.

ForzaV12
07-06-2007, 10:00 PM
The problem is Rich, the area of the country is really dictated by if we can at least break even on the event. With Topeka in the physical center of the country we hoped the turnout would be better, but it wasn't and we lost money on it.

Our membership is extremely top heavy east of the Mississsippi, so the further we go west the fewer that will make the trip from the east. We went to the SAAC X does Vegas last year (Craig went, I couldn't make it) and even SAAC has trouble getting the turnout in the west. But the number of our cars/members there was very poor.

All of this adds up to the fact that unless we can find a way to hold a bare bones event that costs us next to nothing (less than a couple grand) there is no way we can have an event out west.

Barry

This is my first post on this site. After watching TD gradually melt down, this site was recommended to me by Alan(heard he represented the west coast pretty well!). I have yet to attend my first convention as it is always a great distance away. Not so much a financial concern, but rather, one of time. I guess I should just bite the bullet and fly out, but part of the reason for owning one of these goofy cars is the fun of driving it.
While I would in no way presume to tell you how to run your event, I would disagree that the west coasters wouldn't turn out in force with a closer event.
As an example, last night at our monthly meeting we had our usual dozens of TDs in attendence including: masi powered Rampage, Boyd's 11 second magazine star Omni, a mint 89 CSX, my highly modded roadrace GLHS, another roadracing GLH, Pat's concour winning Omni GLH, a 350+hp Spirit R/T, a few more GLH/Ss, Csx's, a masi powerd GLHS Charger, etc,etc,etc. We routinely have turnouts that would be the start of a pretty good show with nothing other than a crappy meal at Applebees as an incentive-lol.
Also, as a licensed vender of Shelby products, I've been involved with SAAC events out here as a participant and sponsor and found them to be very well attended.

Many of the TD enthusiasts out here I'm sure would be more than willing to lend their considerable talents and resources to a west coast event.
That said, I realize that the "comfort zone" is in the east and can only imagine the hassle involved in planning a meet-congrats on would looks like another successful event.

2.216VTurbo
07-06-2007, 11:23 PM
Sweet, nice to have you on the best dang site for turbo Mopars Forza. Do a little searching around and you will see some great threads and pics. Heck there is even a couple of your cars on the 'pics of the every Saturday car show' thread in the lounge. It's probably 5-6 pages back because I haven't put up any new pics lately:o Took a bunch it's just that uploading them takes committment:(

Now that I have brought over about 10+folks, do I get my $5. Frank? Kenny?:D

sdac guy
07-07-2007, 12:31 AM
I would disagree that the west coasters wouldn't turn out in force with a closer event. That's not exactly what I meant though. I didn't mean the ones that are there wouldn't turn out, what I meant was there aren't enough of you. It is not about the desire to have an event there, it is about the cost and if that cost would be met. Last year 66 people attended SDAC-16 at Topeka where our costs were at a minimum and we still lost about $1500 on the event.

I doubt we would get even 66 to turn out for Vegas or Calif. We just do not have the membership base in the western states to support it (from Colorado to the west coast SDAC has 37 members).

The expenses add up fast when talking about event t-shirts, awards, and travel & lodging, etc. This year, we spent about $1000 on awards and dash plaques, and t-shirts cost us just over $1600. Our insurance that covers only our event and show (not track events) costs about $1200. So for just those three items we spent about $3800.

Barry

patcsx42
07-07-2007, 01:01 AM
Now that I have brought over about 10+folks, do I get my $5. Frank? Kenny?:D

You can make that 11 now! The candlepower forums are abit slow tonight:eyebrows:

Patrick P.

patcsx42
07-07-2007, 01:22 AM
Since many of these people haven't been to an SDAC Convention, they don't even realize that you can have a ton of fun and not even have your vehicle there! Just ask those who rented a vehicle to thrash on at the event this year! I know big time SDAC supporters and Forum members (who shall remain nameless) who haven't had they prize car available for several years yet still make the event despite the long distances because they know it's about the friends you have through the cars that make the event! In fact without a car to stress over by detailing it for the show, tuning or even repairing at the track, they can relax, help others, and have more fun! Think about it! Then make plans to be there, regardless of the location, vehicle or not! Fly, hitchhike, carpool, rent a car, or whatever to get there. You won't be sorry!

I thought it would be less stressful this time not taking a car since I drove cross country for SDAC 5-9 and had my 555 go out in Illinois on the way back home from SDAC 7. I think that was where we broke down, Barry probably remembers better than I since he drove like 4 hours to bring us a new main shaft & trans tools.

If you want less stressful, dont go with Alan!:p

I knew I would have a great time even without any of my cars there!

Patrick

rbryant
07-07-2007, 02:33 AM
The google map pictures is SDAC members only. That link is for TM only who have registared their location.

SDAC is clearly an east coast club and I understand that. I don't expect that it will never be on the west coast. I will also probably never be a member any more than somoene in Detriot would be a member of a west coast shelby dodge club.

Our groups is fairly small so it will probably always be this way since there isn't enough momentum to mobilize the club on both coasts.

Maybe someday my car will be able to drive 2000 miles in a trip not a year (ouch that really hurts to pick on myself that way) and I will drive it to the event and make some drag strip passes. Ok realistically I will have to go without the car since it is just too risky to do that.

The other problem is that it is really hard to convince my wife to take a vacation for a week to go to a shelby dodge convention over somewhere with a hotel on the beach. I imagine others that live far away from the events also have this problem.

-Rich

sdac guy
07-07-2007, 06:52 AM
SDAC is clearly an east coast club and I understand that. I don't expect that it will never be on the west coast. I will also probably never be a member any more than somoene in Detriot would be a member of a west coast shelby dodge club. But that is not because that is how we want it to be, that is just because that is how it turns out. Of those members we do have on the west coast most are long term members, being SDAC members for many years.

So some out there do see SDAC membership as being worthwhile while some, like yourself, do not. But when it comes to assessing whether our activities or events can be held there it is the number of members I look at. In the past 5 years our membership in the west has grown some. In 2003 the Pacific NorthWest SDAC chapter was established and that has added to our membership stats, and we have had some growth in southern Cal also. A few guys in Utah are currently seeing if they can get a chapter going, if there is enough local interest. While we have had measurable growth of our membership base in the west, it has been a slow process.

Barry

ForzaV12
07-07-2007, 09:21 AM
That's not exactly what I meant though. I didn't mean the ones that are there wouldn't turn out, what I meant was there aren't enough of you. It is not about the desire to have an event there, it is about the cost and if that cost would be met. Last year 66 people attended SDAC-16 at Topeka where our costs were at a minimum and we still lost about $1500 on the event.

I doubt we would get even 66 to turn out for Vegas or Calif. We just do not have the membership base in the western states to support it (from Colorado to the west coast SDAC has 37 members).

The expenses add up fast when talking about event t-shirts, awards, and travel & lodging, etc. This year, we spent about $1000 on awards and dash plaques, and t-shirts cost us just over $1600. Our insurance that covers only our event and show (not track events) costs about $1200. So for just those three items we spent about $3800.

Barry

I understand Barry. Although I'd hardly call Topeka the "west".
I'll tell you what, if you are ever so inclined to head out west, I'll cover the biggest expense you listed(the t-shirts), how's that? Anyway, thanks for your hard work-I'm off to our saturday morning show to try and keep Alan under control.

Frank
07-07-2007, 09:22 AM
Anyway, thanks for your hard work-I'm off to our saturday morning show to try and keep Alan under control.

Do you think that can be done by yourself? He is crazy!

GLHSKEN
07-07-2007, 09:47 AM
Anyway, thanks for your hard work-I'm off to our saturday morning show to try and keep Alan under control.

LOL can anyone???

GLHS592
07-07-2007, 09:49 AM
I understand Barry. Although I'd hardly call Topeka the "west".

Shoot, I thought Memphis was west. :confused:

sdac guy
07-07-2007, 11:12 AM
I understand Barry. Although I'd hardly call Topeka the "west". And I didn't call it that either. Previously in this thread I referred to Topeka as the middle of the country. I brought up Topeka to show that with 66 people attending and with us not having to pay for any track rental, only the minimum expenses, we still lost money. If we don't get about 100 people to attend a convention that is western based, where we would have to pay track rental, there is no way we could break even on the event.


I'll tell you what, if you are ever so inclined to head out west, I'll cover the biggest expense you listed(the t-shirts), how's that? Anyway, thanks for your hard work-I'm off to our saturday morning show to try and keep Alan under control That's a very generous offer and I appreciate it greatly. There may well be a western convention someday, but probably not under my watch as I think my days heading up this club are numbered (hopefully :D ). Once we get out of debt, 'I'm outta here' like Dennis Miller (SNL reference). :lol:

Barry

GLHSKEN
07-07-2007, 11:20 AM
That's a very generous offer and I appreciate it greatly. There may well be a western convention someday, but probably not under my watch as I think my days heading up this club are numbered (hopefully :D ). Once we get out of debt, 'I'm outta here' like Dennis Miller (SNL reference). :lol:

Barry

That will be a loss for the club.... I think the silent majority fully understand the hassles and issues (greatly understated) you grapple with to run the club.

sdac guy
07-07-2007, 11:36 AM
That will be a loss for the club.... I think the silent majority fully understand the hassles and issues (greatly understated) you grapple with to run the club. Thanks for the kind words Ken. But as we have talked I am not going to just walk away, I want to be sure whoever takes it has a good operational plan before hand. However, I tossed it out there just to give folks something else to ponder. :eyebrows:

Barry

2.216VTurbo
07-07-2007, 12:10 PM
I understand Barry. Although I'd hardly call Topeka the "west".
I'll tell you what, if you are ever so inclined to head out west, I'll cover the biggest expense you listed(the t-shirts), how's that? Anyway, thanks for your hard work-I'm off to our saturday morning show to try and keep Alan under control.

Control is for the masses; I prefer to be unencumbered by the established moral codes of most. Rumor has it I felt at liberty to relieve myself in front of the crowd at SDAC... Dont recall for sure, was someone on fire or something:lol:

Frank
07-07-2007, 12:12 PM
Control is for the masses; I prefer to be unencumbered by the established moral codes of most. Rumor has it I felt at liberty to relieve myself in front of the crowd at SDAC... Dont recall for sure, was someone on fire or something:lol:


HAHAHA! I believe it was when you felt the need to provide more "juice" to ignite the airbag since the battery didn't have enough "juice" to do it.:lol:

2.216VTurbo
07-07-2007, 12:13 PM
I will update the 'every saturday car show' thread soon but for now here is one with two choice subjects in it. One belongs to our new member here at TM Forza12 the other belongs to me (I can dream cant I :) ?)

Increase the pic size to read Forza's sweet a$$ sticker, just dont be droolin over my girl MustangSally:amen:

Frank
07-07-2007, 12:19 PM
You should tell her to move to the east coast!

fleckster
07-07-2007, 01:47 PM
What's up with the coats and cloudy-looking weather? I thought you guys were having a heat wave out west. Not only is "Sally" wearing a jacket, there are people in the background wearing them and long pants. You couldn't do that here unless you were looking for heat stroke!

BadAssPerformance
07-07-2007, 01:58 PM
I will update the 'every saturday car show' thread soon but for now here is one with two choice subjects in it. One belongs to our new member here at TM Forza12 the other belongs to me (I can dream cant I :) ?)

Increase the pic size to read Forza's sweet a$$ sticker, just dont be droolin over my girl MustangSally:amen:

Nice 'two choice subjects' ! :thumb:

rbryant
07-07-2007, 02:10 PM
But that is not because that is how we want it to be, that is just because that is how it turns out. Of those members we do have on the west coast most are long term members, being SDAC members for many years.

So some out there do see SDAC membership as being worthwhile while some, like yourself, do not. But when it comes to assessing whether our activities or events can be held there it is the number of members I look at. In the past 5 years our membership in the west has grown some. In 2003 the Pacific NorthWest SDAC chapter was established and that has added to our membership stats, and we have had some growth in southern Cal also. A few guys in Utah are currently seeing if they can get a chapter going, if there is enough local interest. While we have had measurable growth of our membership base in the west, it has been a slow process.

Barry

I probably over stated things in response to the notion that no matter what there would never be a west coast SDAC. If there was one planned for say 2010 then perhaps the membership would grow. I know I would be much more inclined to join.

If you did it in October/November that year people in the east coast would probably enjoy it. They would have that one more chance to run their cars once last time, get out of the cold, etc.

Of course I am a bad example anyway since I rarely attend car events and mostly just do online stuff.

-Rich

GLHSKEN
07-07-2007, 02:50 PM
West coast, I would fly in. Too much time wasted on the road with a trailer. Hey, Maybe ship the car out, Pick it up, ship it back!!

mustangsally
07-07-2007, 03:08 PM
What's up with the coats and cloudy-looking weather? I thought you guys were having a heat wave out west. Not only is "Sally" wearing a jacket, there are people in the background wearing them and long pants. You couldn't do that here unless you were looking for heat stroke!

It's that wonderful thing known to those who live in Cali as the "marine layer." Kinda cool and froggy than it burns off and it's magically 90 degrees...rule #1: always dress in layers...

Turbodave
07-07-2007, 03:10 PM
West coast, I would fly in. Too much time wasted on the road with a trailer. Hey, Maybe ship the car out, Pick it up, ship it back!!

For a West coast convention, I would fly out there, buy one of those rust free turbo mopars they've got all over the place out there, take it to SDAC and then drive it home.

ShelbyMotorsports
07-07-2007, 03:36 PM
LOL can anyone???

MustangSalley did a pretty good job Thursday night:p

ShelbyMotorsports
07-07-2007, 03:44 PM
I'll tell you what, if you are ever so inclined to head out west, I'll cover the biggest expense you listed(the t-shirts), how's that? Anyway, thanks for your hard work-I'm off to our saturday morning show to try and keep Alan under control.

And I'll add to the offer. ShelbyMotorsports will cover the the cost of producing the car show awards including the dash plaques.

I'll even cover the cost of a "attendant" to keep Alan under control :p

2.216VTurbo
07-07-2007, 03:47 PM
I'm in for the cost of all the alcohol, say $1000. worth. I can also throw another G note twards the track rental. Who am I making this out to?:D

BadAssPerformance
07-07-2007, 04:18 PM
For a West coast convention, I would fly out there, buy one of those rust free turbo mopars they've got all over the place out there, take it to SDAC and then drive it home.

Sounds like a plan, we can race home :D

Turbo224
07-07-2007, 04:19 PM
I would definatly drive out to cali for an sdac! Vegas would be better, but im not picky!

GLHSKEN
07-07-2007, 04:51 PM
Hmmm sounding promising. Anyone else... Vegas!!!! Tm would be in for sponsorship as would I

Turbo224
07-07-2007, 05:14 PM
Somehow I believe that the vegas speedway would be an expensive place to rent out. There is definatly plenty of room for a road coarse. And to top it off, I think people attending would manage to find something entertaining to do at night if you know what a mean...:evil:

supercrackerbox
07-07-2007, 05:15 PM
I'd love to offer some input to this, but really I've got nothing. The bureaucrats that run this county are too uptight to allow any sort of motorsports facility in the area. There's one in Kearney, a couple hours west of here, but I haven't seen it in person yet. But when I do, I'll see about rental fees and such, just in case.

But anyway, I'd just like to say that the only thing that kept me from this year's event was bad luck. Two months' unemployment wiped out all my savings and I couldn't really get the time off from a new job that I'd only been at for a week. But distance is not an issue for me. North, south, east, or west, I'll make the drive, I don't care. I'm proud to be a member of SDAC and will do what I can when I can.

Looking forward to next year.

mustangsally
07-07-2007, 08:14 PM
MustangSalley did a pretty good job Thursday night:p

I did? Was he on "good behavior" that night or something? ;)

Frank
07-07-2007, 10:02 PM
Sounds like the OVC SDAC's Turbopalooza and DVC SDAC's Cecil event should be held in California this year at the same time. :) A SDAC and TM mini event!

ForzaV12
07-08-2007, 01:05 AM
I'm in for the cost of all the alcohol, say $1000. worth. I can also throw another G note twards the track rental. Who am I making this out to?:D

So let's see now, we've got 1500. worth of t-shirts, 1000. towards the booze, 1000. towards the track and free awards and trophys. That's 3K worth of west coast sponsorship within 24hours, how we looking now?

sdac guy
07-08-2007, 05:44 AM
So let's see now, we've got 1500. worth of t-shirts, 1000. towards the booze, 1000. towards the track and free awards and trophys. That's 3K worth of west coast sponsorship within 24hours, how we looking now? Well if we would do an event such as we just finished, you're about $6700 short. :lol:

If you folks are serious (and I suppose you are) then get together and figure out the exact area you want it in (Vegas, SoCal, NorCal). Find a drag strip to rent for a day in that area, find a host hotel that has pool and conference facilities that can give us a block of 80 rooms at a reasonable price (< $80/night). With all these facts in hand, submit a proposal (or two if you have more than one area to consider). You do not need to get a price quote from the drag strip, just say that the proposal is based on using that track. I will do the rest of the investigation. If you want to get a price though, no problem.

For purposes of discussion, I'll use two examples of what are limiting factors and expected turnout (based on my experiences). First off, when I say $6700 short above, Topeka only cost $6700 total and with 66 people attending we still lost $1500. So having $3000 in sponsor support is not a done deal at all.

Secondly, for the 2003 20th anniversary thing that the MWSDAC club put together at Vegas, IIRC there were 27 or 28 cars and about 50 people attending. All but 3-4 of the cars were from the west coast area. Those 3-4 cars drove out from MO & KS as part of the MWSDAC group. The rest of the folks attending from the east all flew in. So I would expect about the same or less ratio attendance from folks east of the Mississippi river as at that event.

If the cost of the drag strip is high like it was this year, then participation in that event will be lower (just like it was this year). My guestimate is that we would probably draw 40-50 vehicles total for the event tops. Of those, 25-30 would drag race (and I think I am being very generous in those estimates). The total registered attendance (people count) would be less than 100 with half or more flying in. It still doesn't look very encouraging cost wise.

Barry

fleckster
07-08-2007, 11:39 AM
...and since when does SDAC spend $1000 on alcohol? While I'm sure the total spent on it at an event is probably over that amount, it has always been BYOB since it is a "family friendly" event. We can't count Alan's generous offer toward the Quote.

Clay
07-08-2007, 12:00 PM
anyway, all alan needs is a $10 bottle of Everclear and he's all set! ;)

sdac guy
07-08-2007, 12:29 PM
...and since when does SDAC spend $1000 on alcohol? While I'm sure the total spent on it at an event is probably over that amount, it has always been BYOB since it is a "family friendly" event. We can't count Alan's generous offer toward the Quote.We don't, and I didn't. :D

Barry

2.216VTurbo
07-08-2007, 12:37 PM
Well I guess you could redirect that $1K and were only $5700. short then right???

SpiritedShelbys
07-08-2007, 03:29 PM
Funny about the west coast guys comment. A friend and I were going to go this year but it was a choice between SDAC or Tulsa... and SDAC will be there next year. I doubt there will be any more buried '57 Plymouths in my lifetime.

SpiritedShelbys
07-08-2007, 03:34 PM
You guys should try to have SDAC in vegas at the Shelby facility and try to get some of the #1 cars there and maybe even the man himself. I keep on hearing rumors about Shelby still driving his 89 CSX. It can't be that far. After all... the guy isn't going to be around forever. I think it would be entirely appropriate for this to happen for the "dodge" guys as more generous courtesies seem to be extended to the mustang/cobra clubs.

ForzaV12
07-08-2007, 03:49 PM
Well I guess you could redirect that $1K and were only $5700. short then right???

No worries, we haven't even hit up the Pats, Jeff B, Todge, Ed,etc. Maybe we'll offer one of our extra TDs as a door prize(must be in attendence to win!)
How about some magazine coverage as well?

ForzaV12
07-08-2007, 03:52 PM
You guys should try to have SDAC in vegas at the Shelby facility and try to get some of the #1 cars there and maybe even the man himself. I keep on hearing rumors about Shelby still driving his 89 CSX. It can't be that far. After all... the guy isn't going to be around forever. I think it would be entirely appropriate for this to happen for the "dodge" guys as more generous courtesies seem to be extended to the mustang/cobra clubs.


That would be cool and we've got a couple guys out here with some connections in that area.

30 PSI SHADOW
07-08-2007, 04:57 PM
If folks get to vote or poll then there are hard feelings when "their" site doesn't win. And it is worse when "their" site does win and for some reason we can't use it. We went through that with the New England poll 10 years ago. Took a poll on awards night (I even raised my hand for NE), then a ballot in the next newsletter so EVERYONE could vote.

NE won the vote, but the tracks were too expensive or petty with their operating rules, so it couldn't be done. There were NE folks that whined about that for years. Barry


Not to bring it up again barry, But just as a side note, I was talking to Joey Mckaey(spelling) and he had mentioned that Naiperville dragway 2 hours north of albany NY. Which is the home of stephane boraguard, rents out the track for a song.He wasnt sure,but $1000.00 sounded like ballpark.And i think that was canadian. Yes, the track is just 3 miles over the border. Its near NE, but not a bad price.
Just a thought for the record...

Bill Baker

NeonShowCar
07-08-2007, 05:54 PM
Alan - if you guys need help putting together a proposal, hit me up. I can find the time to put it all together for you guys if you like, in between all of the projects I'm currently working on at work. :D

Could look into Fontana or Fon-tucky like everyone tells me its like. Just a thought, and let me know how I can help you guys out.

moparfwdsleeper
07-08-2007, 06:30 PM
To bad there isnt a SDAC chapter in Oklahoma... Everything is cheap here. Several Hotels, Drag Strip, etc etc... To bad though.

sdac guy
07-08-2007, 07:23 PM
Not to bring it up again barry, But just as a side note, I was talking to Joey Mckaey(spelling) and he had mentioned that Naiperville dragway 2 hours north of albany NY. Which is the home of stephane boraguard, rents out the track for a song.He wasnt sure,but $1000.00 sounded like ballpark.And i think that was canadian. Yes, the track is just 3 miles over the border. Its near NE, but not a bad price.
Just a thought for the record...

Bill Baker You're saying this is in Canada? Out of the question! Can't even be considered. Since 9/11 there is no way we could do anything in Canada in any kind of organized event. It was hard enough to get things done for SDAC-11 and that was 3 months before it happened.

Barry

sdac guy
07-08-2007, 07:36 PM
You guys should try to have SDAC in vegas at the Shelby facility and try to get some of the #1 cars there and maybe even the man himself. I keep on hearing rumors about Shelby still driving his 89 CSX. It can't be that far. After all... the guy isn't going to be around forever. I think it would be entirely appropriate for this to happen for the "dodge" guys as more generous courtesies seem to be extended to the mustang/cobra clubs.

You should read more of this thread, and take note of what HAS happened there in the last 4 years. In 2003 we had an SD event there. It was poorly attended by the local folks. Carroll couldn't make it though.

Last year SAAC held an event in Feb in Vegas and the SD's were invited. The SD turnout for that was dismal, about a dozen or less SD's? Carroll did make it for a bit to that one.

That point is really the crux of my argument. If the locals don't show for an SD event when it is there, I am far from believing that they would show up for our event. Many people flew in for the 2003 event (including Craig, Tim Costello, and myself from Michigan, Baker and Seth from New England, etc). And yet the locals didn't bother. Oh some of the more dedicated came, I was able to see Alan's car for the first time, and I met a few folks I had not met before also.

We looked around and said, where are all the locals? There were 27 cars there, 5 or 6 cars drove down from the PNW area, 3 or 4 cars drove in from MO. That leaves less than 20 cars representing southern California.

Not very convincing.

Barry

ShelbyMotorsports
07-08-2007, 09:22 PM
You should read more of this thread, and take note of what HAS happened there in the last 4 years. In 2003 we had an SD event there. It was poorly attended by the local folks. Carroll couldn't make it though.

You mean the 20th Anniversary event that was put on by another and much smaller car club because they were disappointed in how SDAC was ignoring that milestone?


Last year SAAC held an event in Feb in Vegas and the SD's were invited. The SD turnout for that was dismal, about a dozen or less SD's? Carroll did make it for a bit to that one. Actually SAAC has held this event for the last 10 years or so but turned the event over to Shelby Automobiles in 2006 which is why all cars were invitied.


That point is really the crux of my argument. If the locals don't show for an SD event when it is there, I am far from believing that they would show up for our event. Many people flew in for the 2003 event (including Craig, Tim Costello, and myself from Michigan, Baker and Seth from New England, etc). And yet the locals didn't bother. Oh some of the more dedicated came, I was able to see Alan's car for the first time, and I met a few folks I had not met before also.

We looked around and said, where are all the locals? There were 27 cars there, 5 or 6 cars drove down from the PNW area, 3 or 4 cars drove in from MO. That leaves less than 20 cars representing southern California.

Not very convincing.

Barry

So 20 SoCal people driving 6 hours to Vegas is a poor representation for an event that was put together on a short notice with very little advertising?

Barry since you want to use a NON-SDAC event as a gauge for a future SDAC convention I guess SDAC wont be seeing any conventions in MI or IL anytime soon since those two locations have had NON-SDAC car shows recently with low turnouts.

I guess the PA folks should consider themselves lucky this year because if one were to count the number of Shelby Dodges this past weekend at Calisle theres no way SDAC could ever hold a convention there or does this barometer only apply to the western states?

SpiritedShelbys
07-08-2007, 09:30 PM
Barry... I was there in 2003 in Las Vegas. Poorly attended or not it was cool.

sdac guy
07-08-2007, 10:48 PM
You mean the 20th Anniversary event that was put on by another and much smaller car club because they were disappointed in how SDAC was ignoring that milestone? Well first off, you don't have your facts straight Steve. Les Chubick who heads up MWSDAC first mentioned having such an event to me in the fall of 2002. Even at that time it was an event he wanted to spearhead. In mid-December of 2002 he contacted me to see if SDAC would be a "partner" with them in holding the event.

Partner is sort of an unusual term here since 1.) there were no costs involved to hold the event, hence no costs to share, and 2.) anyone who knows Les, knows that he really doesn't "partner" with anyone. But I agreed to advertise the event to our members and to folks online since Les has virtually no online presence. That was about the limit that Les allowed SDAC involvement. He wanted it to be a MWSDAC event (his event). I had no problem with that. The event was planned for late April 2003.

In mid-January, Les got out a press release notice which I printed in it's entirety on page 4 of issue 90 of Up Front which was mailed in the first week of February. And that issue went out to all our members. I also posted notices on the SDML and on TurboDodge.com at about the same time.

Had it been an event I planned, I think I might have done a few things different, but your criticism of the job Les did is not deserved. And your insinuation that SDAC wasn't involved is wrong. We were involved as much as Les wanted us to be.


So 20 SoCal people driving 6 hours to Vegas is a poor representation for an event that was put together on a short notice with very little advertising? Well compared to those that drove 14+ hours from the PNW, or for 2 days from Missouri. Or compared to those that made plane reservations weeks in advance and flew in from the east coast, yeah I stand by that statement, it was a poor showing. But you want to know the truth? It was exactly as I expected and it was exactly as I predicted to Craig & Tim before we left.

All this chest beating on here, saying if SDAC holds an event out west, then the locals will turnout, well what are the locals waiting for??? Engraved invitation???


Barry since you want to use a NON-SDAC event as a gauge for a future SDAC convention I guess SDAC wont be seeing any conventions in MI or IL anytime soon since those two locations have had NON-SDAC car shows recently with low turnouts.

I guess the PA folks should consider themselves lucky this year because if one were to count the number of Shelby Dodges this past weekend at Calisle theres no way SDAC could ever hold a convention there or does this barometer only apply to the western states? They may have been as you put it "NON-SDAC" events, but they WERE either Shelby Dodge events or events where the Shelby Dodges were invited to, were they not? And the poor attendance by our members at Carlisle is what caused SDAC to stop attending that event. We didn't go last year, and this year we turned over all our administrative contacts there to the DV-SDAC chapter.

What you are conveniently ignoring is the fact I have stated before in this thread. I look at the membership numbers in an area to judge the overall viability of an event. When I sorted our membership address listing by ZIP code, I took all of the ZIP codes 80000 and greater (Colorado and west) and we had 37 members.

So 37 members out west and the fact that SDAC has had officers at the two most recent events where Shelby Dodges were invited and the attendance at those events appear to verify those numbers. What other conclusion can I draw? Oh, this one, there is a vast number of Shelby Dodge enthusiasts in hiding waiting only for the day when an official SDAC event is held there. Yeah, right, they won't show up then either.

Barry

fleckster
07-08-2007, 11:30 PM
Why don't the West Coast people put together a "Turbopalooza" or "Cecil" like event and have a great time getting all the local (and others) involved and make those events successful. If and after that event is proven, then a national event can be discussed. (basically then just scaled up) There would be no argument to if it could be done at a reasonable cost that way. You say it would work? Prove it.

I see this as a win-win event. Even if you don't get enough interested to justify a full national event, you still have a sweet event to have annually like the OVC and DV Chapters have.

Turbo224
07-09-2007, 12:05 AM
Why don't the West Coast people put together a "Turbopalooza" or "Cecil" like event and have a great time getting all the local (and others) involved and make those events successful. If and after that event is proven, then a national event can be discussed. (basically then just scaled up) There would be no argument to if it could be done at a reasonable cost that way. You say it would work? Prove it.

I see this as a win-win event. Even if you don't get enough interested to justify a full national event, you still have a sweet event to have annually like the OVC and DV Chapters have.

This certainly isn't a bad idea. I would drive to Vegas in a second if I knew there was going to be atleast some sort of event. Im not sure about driving to Cali though.

BadAssPerformance
07-09-2007, 01:58 AM
Why don't the West Coast people put together a "Turbopalooza" or "Cecil" like event and have a great time getting all the local (and others) involved and make those events successful. If and after that event is proven, then a national event can be discussed. (basically then just scaled up) There would be no argument to if it could be done at a reasonable cost that way. You say it would work? Prove it.

I see this as a win-win event. Even if you don't get enough interested to justify a full national event, you still have a sweet event to have annually like the OVC and DV Chapters have.

Nice Idea Fleck. I think a mini, localy promoted/supported SDAC event like the ones you mentioned would definitely show member involvement and dedication. In fact, I think this reasoning goes not only for SoCal/Vegas, but also PNW, Lone Star or any SDAC chapter that wants to promote the idea of the national convention being local to them. A good showing at an event like that would only help the case to have a national show there.

2.216VTurbo
07-09-2007, 10:29 AM
FWIW, I don't think a SoCal National would be a reasonable idea, if we want to organize and put on a local meet and invite the country great...

I should have made it more clear that I DO think a Vegas event would be well attended (lets not bring up those 'other' events for comparison, they are NOT an SDAC national meet), even if the 'rental car class' was one of the larger run groups, it would still be a blast:amen: How many wives/families/others don't want a trip to Vegas? If you parents haven't had the kids out there in the last 5 or so years, you will be suprised. Marketing folks have done well to make plenty of family activities in the area. It's not all about 'professional' women, gambling and cocaine anymore...

Remember, it's the cars that bring this community of ours together but at an SDAC national meet IT'S ABOUT THE PEOPLE:grouphug: (oh and rentals with nitrous:D if it's too far to drive out)

ForzaV12
07-09-2007, 10:45 AM
As I see it, Barry has voiced two valid concerns about an SDAC held out west-not covering club expenses and low turn-out.
My intention was to eliminate the possibilty of the club losing money. In a very brief period of time we had substantial financial commitments from a few west coast TD enthusiasts. I know that we could step up and make this happen, given the opportunity. To my knowledge, this has not occurred in past meets. The reason we would do this is to encourage and assist the members in the rest of the country to attend. By reducing the expenses of the meet, we would hope that our east coast, southern and midwest TD bretheren would find it easier to drive, fly or tow.
I would think a west coast meet would be attractive for a number of reasons-some of our nation's best tourist attractions, unmatched weather, fantastic driving roads and unbelievable views of mountains and ocean. (Vegas would be ideal, as well)

I don't really believe that the events cited(to illustrate low attendence) are relevant. We have a large group of TD owners/fans out here that may not be SDAC members(not listed on the location map) that would definately attend a west coast(Vegas or other location)SDAC. As I stated earlier, our monthly socal meets routinely draw a large group of TDers and top of the food chain examples of TDs.

I have no interest in providing sponsorship for a "try-out" or audition. If there is realistically no chance of a west coast SDAC, then so be it. But if the club wants to take advantage of substantial monetary assistance, than we will investigate tracks, hotels,attractions, etc. If there would not be support for this event from members in the rest of the country, then what's the point.

If the claim is made that a lower number of members out west would reduce attendance and place the club at financial risk, I would think that the elimination of the monetary risk and even minimal support from the non west coast members would make these points moot. Either way, my feelings won't be hurt. Gotta go, time for a nice drive up the coast! :D

contraption22
07-09-2007, 10:56 AM
I don't really believe that the events cited(to illustrate low attendence) are relavant. We have a large group of TD owners/fans out here that may not be SDAC members(not listed on the location map) that would definately attend a west coast(Vegas or other location)SDAC. As I stated earlier, our monthly socal meets routinely draw a large group of TDers and top of the food chain examples of TDs.



If they are enthusiastic enough to show up at an SDAC event... then why haven't they bucked up and supported the club that puts on the events by joining it?

fleckster
07-09-2007, 11:00 AM
I have no interest in providing sponsorship for a "try-out" or audition.

But that's the whole idea behind organizing a "Turbopalooza" or "Cecil" type event! They don't require any sponsorship! They are meetings where area people show up and other area people are invited and go to a track day when a Test and Tune is going on so the only expense other than getting there (and I'm talking fuel or perhaps a plane ticket) is the normal track entry fee. (usually like $15-$20 to race and $7-$10 to spectate) Afterward, everyone travels to get some food or to someone's house and the partying festivities occur. People chip in for pizza or whatever, BYOB, and it's ON! No investment is required. Just a large number of people meeting like a mini-SDAC event. If that can be pulled off and gets a name for itself, then attention would be give for a national event host there.

ShelbyMotorsports
07-09-2007, 12:13 PM
If they are enthusiastic enough to show up at an SDAC event... then why haven't they bucked up and supported the club that puts on the events by joining it?

The reasons I've been given by some of these non-SDAC members is because they feel ignored by SDAC they see no benefit to become a member.

If SDAC was a Michigan car club I would be right beside Barry telling the folks in the western states to be quiet but SDAC bills itself as a national club when it comes to accepting dues but come convention locations it suddenly turns into a eastern car club.

Barry repeatedly states that he just knows any convention held towards the west will lose money so in less than a day approximately $6,000 of support is offered to SDAC to insure the club wont suffer any losses and what does Barry do but stick to his guns that there's not enough members.

For someone that claims to run SDAC as a business the decision to dismiss this generous offer, that I'm pretty sure has never been made in the past by any group, is one poor business move.

Mike I would like to turn your question around so the shoes on the other foot.


If the western members are enthusiastic enough to be a member of SDAC... then why hasn't SDAC bucked up and supported the western members?

Support has to be a two way thing.

sdac guy
07-09-2007, 12:38 PM
As I see it, Barry has voiced two valid concerns about an SDAC held out west-not covering club expenses and low turn-out.
My intention was to eliminate the possibilty of the club losing money. :D And I applaud your intention whole heartedly. As it stands now, we have two sites we are looking at for SDAC-18 & 19. The only decision is whether the one is possible at all and whether it will be 18 or 19. But whichever is not 18 will be 19.

So if something was to be done out west as a National SDAC event, it would most likely not be a candidate until SDAC-20. That gives plenty of time for folks out there to talk over the different areas and venues and decide what is the best area for a proposal to be based on.

I know it is somewhat unfair of me to use the recent events in Vegas as examples, but it is the only practical frame of reference I have. Every thing else is in the theoretical frame. ;)

And anyone who has been in a chapter very long knows that there is a core group of folks that come to every (or nearly every) meeting or event, and then there are folks that show up a couple times a year when it is convenient for them to do so.

We all have to remember that this is a hobby and different folks place different priorities on following their hobby. And there is no fault with folks that are not as dedicated to it or as fanatical about it as others may be. But when looking at who will make an effort to attend an event, it is foolish to count the casual enthusiasts along with the core group. Certainly some of the casual group will show up, but not all of them.

And this may be where a local event put on by the chapter as suggested here, may be a value in seeing what kind of turnout you will get.

Forza raised a good point about the number of folks from the east that would drive or fly in. And that is where our event in Topeka has a fairly good number to use as an indication. At that event there was not only drag racing, but also road course and autocross events (so the attraction was strong). We had 66 attend and only one person from west of Kansas attended (flew in from BC Canada). So it was attended mainly by folks that are considered "easterners".

If an event was held in Vegas or on the coast, I don't think we would get all of those same 66 to attend. There were only a very few folks that flew in, most drove or towed their car. Some that drove or towed to Topeka would see that the cost to do the same out west was going to cost too much and would stay home (an extra day or so of lodging and gas along the way). But some would fly in, how many would do that is very hard to estimate.

The fact that a few of you are willing to share the cost burden to make an event possible is very admirable and shows your dedication to the sport and hobby. Even if it never comes to pass, I will not forget the offers or zeal with which you seek an event there. Your words are not wasted on me. :thumb:

Barry

ShelbyMotorsports
07-09-2007, 12:51 PM
Well first off, you don't have your facts straight Steve. Les Chubick who heads up MWSDAC first mentioned having such an event to me in the fall of 2002. Even at that time it was an event he wanted to spearhead. In mid-December of 2002 he contacted me to see if SDAC would be a "partner" with them in holding the event.

I can only go by what Les told me, what I saw in the Mid-West newsletter and what was posted on the SDML. Several times it was stated that they were putting on the 20th annv event because SDAC wasn't. If you say that Les approached you in 2002 about SDAC holding this event and you declined well that is something that was not mentioned and will take some follow up to determine how things went down but in any event you are confirming that SDAC had no plans to commerate that milestone which supports how I recall the event coming to be.



Had it been an event I planned, I think I might have done a few things different, but your criticism of the job Les did is not deserved. And your insinuation that SDAC wasn't involved is wrong. We were involved as much as Les wanted us to be.

I in no way critized Les and resent you implying that. Les did a great job with the tools he had which is why I attended his event without hesitation. And would do so again.



All this chest beating on here, saying if SDAC holds an event out west, then the locals will turnout, well what are the locals waiting for??? Engraved invitation??? For me I never asked for nor expected an engraved invitation and I suspect others are finally realizing things that have been clear for a long time.

SDAC has ignored its western members for years which has resulted in a decline of western membership. And SDAC wants to blame us for this?

Perhaps we can discuss how SDAC used its influence to shut down the Utah club because they were outshining them in almost every area. That's just one example of many the western folks can show others so they can understand how things have gotten this way.

sdac guy
07-09-2007, 12:55 PM
The reasons I've been given by some of these non-SDAC members is because they feel ignored by SDAC they see no benefit to become a member. That's funny. :lol: They feel ignored??? That is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. How do they expect us to recognize them when we don't know they are there. Let's see, someone is standing on the corner of my street (4 houses away) and saying Barry never comes to his door to see me, he's ignoring me. Well, in order to get recognized, they gotta knock. I can only go by what I see.


Barry repeatedly states that he just knows any convention held towards the west will lose money so in less than a day approximately $6,000 of support is offered to SDAC to insure the club wont suffer any losses and what does Barry do but stick to his guns that there's not enough members. You got two things twisted around there Steve. First, my count on the money was closer to $3000. If Alan does change from buying booze to actual event support, then it becomes about $4000.

And after I recognized the generous offers, I said, you folks need to put together a proposal.

The last time I mentioned the amount of members was to disprove another distortion of the facts as you represented them.


For someone that claims to run SDAC as a business the decision to dismiss this generous offer, that I'm pretty sure has never been made in the past by any group, is one poor business move. I'll say it again. PUT TOGETHER A PROPOSAL!


Mike I would like to turn your question around so the shoes on the other foot.

Support has to be a two way thing. There has never been a truer statement than the one in a couple folks sigs: "Support the club that supports your hobby"

So what you are saying that the only support that matters to you is having an SDAC event in your backyard? I see that as being rather shallow.

Barry

sdac guy
07-09-2007, 01:22 PM
I can only go by what Les told me, what I saw in the Mid-West newsletter and what was posted on the SDML. Several times it was stated that they were putting on the 20th annv event because SDAC wasn't. I don't recall statements such as those and I have been a MW member since long before I was given the national club.


If you say that Les approached you in 2002 about SDAC holding this event and you declined NO, I didn't say that. Go back and re-read my previous post.


which supports how I recall the event coming to be. Well since you were not involved in the planning of it, I can see how you can recall the event coming to be any way you want to.

But, I think it was at SDAC12, Les mentioned that he thought an event for the 20th anniv of the SC would be a neat thing. We did talk a little about it then. I don't recall it ever being suggested that SDAC hold it. I certainly never declined. As I said before, Les then approached me later in the year to see if SDAC would support MW's efforts in putting on the event. He mainly wanted me to get the word out. Which I did as soon as it was passed to me from him.


I in no way critized Les and resent you implying that.
for an event that was put together on a short notice with very little advertising?Excuse me then, I took your statement above as a criticism of the event (and Les' efforts). I read it wrong. Sorry.


SDAC has ignored its western members for years which has resulted in a decline of western membership. Actually our western membership has risen in the long term view, not declined. We added a new chapter while in Vegas 2003, and we have 13 members in PNW, and most of them were not SDAC members before. There is currently interest in a Utah chapter and I think that effort is moving along well.


Perhaps we can discuss how SDAC used its influence to shut down the Utah club because they were outshining them in almost every area. That's just one example of many the western folks can show others so they can understand how things have gotten this way. I have no firsthand knowledge of that club or the problems it had with the prior SDAC management. It happened before I even joined SDAC. I do have some info from that era, but I will not discuss that publicly as I don't have the full story (and neither do you).

Barry

BadAssPerformance
07-09-2007, 01:25 PM
...SDAC bills itself as a national club ...

Should be 'international' these days with members all over North America (Canada and Mexico) and also in Europe :thumb:

JamesL
07-09-2007, 03:00 PM
No I run it like it is my business, which it is 100%. You own a business, do you want others telling you how to run it? If not, I feel the same way.

I think everyone needs to read and re-read this statement. We think we are talking about a car club but the management is running a business. A club infers member input via committee for decisions and planning. Barry is President and CEO of this business, in the end all decisions are made by the President and public debate about the subject is an irritant at best. As with our business, you can choose to do business with SDAC, Inc. or you can choose not too.


My only point was that possibly with some Turbo Mopar ingenuity, a chapter or group of chapters could do some fund raising and put a financial package together to lobby SDAC to have the event in their area. Kind of like what cities do to get the Olympics. I was not degrading anyone’s effort, simply trying to express an idea that helps SDAC fund a better event and motivates members to try to get the event in their area. Simple as that!


I think if a few more members from a potential area worked some of the dealers and sponsors in area and came up with a package of financial reasons and resources to have it near their chapter that would go a long way toward mitigating many of the concerns.


I say vote with your pocket book. You want the event in your area, give Barry some solid financial incentive to bring it so that registration fees do not have to carry so much of the cost.


The fact that a few of you are willing to share the cost burden to make an event possible is very admirable and shows your dedication to the sport and hobby. Even if it never comes to pass, I will not forget the offers or zeal with which you seek an event there. Your words are not wasted on me. :thumb:

Sounds like the SoCal guys figured this out and they have not even hit FWD, TU or the other vendors up for money yet. Heck if you raise enough money to provide a variety of attractions and you keep Barry solvent in the process, anyone who doens't turn-out.....well, it's their loss...just means more track time for me.

James

ShelbyMotorsports
07-09-2007, 03:16 PM
I don't recall statements such as those and I have been a MW member since long before I was given the national club.

NO, I didn't say that. Go back and re-read my previous post.

Well since you were not involved in the planning of it, I can see how you can recall the event coming to be any way you want to.



Barry I appreciate you clearing that up. I had no idea Les put on the 20th Annv event just so he could tell lies about SDAC.

As usual this topic goes nowhere and since Barry already has the 2008 & 2009 locations picked out my guess is this is just a waste of time for now. The western members will have to just continue on with the hope that when SDAC management does change it will be for the benefit of its members and not a business decision.

BIGBRUDDA
07-09-2007, 03:37 PM
Sounds like its time for the left coast guys to put on an event on their own.:nod:
The overriding point here is DISTANCE.
Even if its accomodations are cheap, and beer is free. Just the Missouri-Texas guys will have to tow 2000 miles, over 8000ft mountains. For a 3 day event. A major undertaking.

Bottom line the west coast is OUT OF REACH for 70% of SDAC members.
It would be closer and cheaper for most eastern members to go to a "neutral site"............. say Acapulco or Cozumel!:thumb:

sdac guy
07-09-2007, 03:39 PM
Barry I appreciate you clearing that up. I had no idea Les put on the 20th Annv event just so he could tell lies about SDAC.Remember Steve, this is YOUR claim, YOUR words, NOT mine.

Since there were some very difficult times between MW and SDAC in the past (prior SDAC management) I have done everything I can to patch up the relationship. I read every MW newsletter and I look for items that may be questionable regarding SDAC. While I have brought a couple items to Les and Dave G's attention in the past they were minor. I have never read anything in the MW newsletter to suggest that the event was anything less than a co-operative effort. I cannot account for what you say Les told you personally, nor can I verify that you recall correctly. To me, you seem to have difficulty at times quoting what I say or said, only a few messages back.


As usual this topic goes nowhere and since Barry already has the 2008 & 2009 locations picked out my guess is this is just a waste of time for now. The western members will have to just continue on with the hope that when SDAC management does change it will be for the benefit of its members and not a business decision. So you are not going to try to put a proposal together? Suit yourself.

We do make decisions for the benefit of our members. We make the decisions that will benefit the majority of our members. We will not make a decision that is questionable or does not appear to be sound just to satisfy less than 10% of our membership. That would be bad business.

Barry

ShelbyMotorsports
07-09-2007, 04:40 PM
That would be bad business.


So it was a good business decision to run up $20,000 to $25,000 worth of debt by holding poorly attended conventions in Canada, Topeka and lets not forget that lost convention because someone made a business decision not to sign a contract.

Go figure we can't even agree that a business in the red is bad.

sdac guy
07-09-2007, 04:40 PM
I want to talk a little more about the proposal and why it is important. Until I know somewhat about the cost of renting the track, I can't say yes to an area. And I won't know what the track is going to charge until YOU name the track in a proposal so I can contact them.

Once I contact the track I have a couple questions, first is what is the cost to rent for 8 hours on a weekday and what does it include? Secondly, is the cost of liability insurance included in that fee? Thirdly, are there any restrictions that would limit us from putting on our full schedule of events?

The first two questions are to see if it is feasible at all from a financial standpoint. Tracks charge by one of two ways, straight hourly fee, or hourly by number of cars. Hourly by number of cars is getting more popular and is usually more difficult to plan with.

For example, PRP where we were this year charged hourly by the number of cars. The rate was by groups of 20 cars. So 20 cars cost $250 an hour, 40 cars cost $350 an hour, and 60 cars cost $425 an hour. They told me they would wink at a couple cars over each top limit, but not 5. So if we had 22 cars to race they would honor the 20 car fee, but if we had 25 cars race, we would have to pay the rate for up to 40 cars.

This rate included liability insurance and ambulance. But it was $75 extra per hour if we wanted to use both lanes, and each track worker we hired (we hired 3) was another $20 an hour each. In the end we had 39 racers, and paid the fee for 40. But there was a breakage on the starting line and they charged us the clean-up fee for that ($100).

Since we planned our fee schedule on 60 racers (to get the best price per car), we charged from $80 (member pre-reg) to $90 (non-member on site) to race. I am certain this affected our total number of racers as this is the lowest turnout for the drag strip we have had since I have had the club.

For 39 racers and the clean-up, our bill came to $3515. We took in $3280 in drag racing fees. The sponsorship money from FWDP brought that up to $3480 which means we lost $35 on the whole or just under $1 per racer. So we were right in the ballpark with the fee we charged, but it would have been nice to break even or even make a couple bucks on it.

So, say Fontana drag strip as Garry M suggested is the one in your proposal. Suppose they charge a flat $500 per hour, and for the day that is $4000, and that includes insurance and track workers. So I know that to meet that fee with 40 racers I will have to charge $100 each to drag race. How will that high of a fee impact the number of racers? I will bet anything we would not get 40.

Now supposing that Fontana doesn't include insurance and I must buy liability insurance separately. The last time I got a quote from our insurer, it was $2500 for a track event for one day. Add that to the $4000 and we have $6500 to race at Fontana. So we go ahead and rent it. We charge $100 each to race and we get 27 racers. We have brought in $2700 against a cost of $6500, a loss of $3900. Hmmm ... that $3K you guys put together is gone in the blink of an eye.

This is an example of how the costs can and do add up. You want to put me on the spot about a western convention with a few of you anteing up about 3-4K total. Until a proposal is submitted, I don't know whether that 3-4K will even begin to cover any shortfall that may occur.

You guys are asking me to commit or promise something on a theory. I need facts to base a decision on, and you have not provided any.

I used the drag strip as an example because I can't hardly believe that we charged $80-90 for folks to race, had 39 racers and still didn't break even. But there are other costs locally that are involved too. The cost of a car show site if we need to rent a place, and the cost of our Hospitality Night which includes the cost of the facility and the caterer (note we do not use hotel catering as it is way too expensive).

So until a proposal is submitted I can't make any decision or commitment.

Barry

ShelbyMotorsports
07-09-2007, 04:43 PM
So until a proposal is submitted I can't make any decision or commitment.

Barry

Fair enough.

sdac guy
07-09-2007, 04:57 PM
So it was a good business decision to run up $20,000 to $25,000 worth of debt by holding poorly attended conventions in Canada, Topeka I have never claimed I knew what I was doing when I was given this club (but I damn well do now). Canada and Topeka were actually the two least losers. And I still think Canada was a great idea. But both of those were losers only because folks just didn't turn out for them. It wasn't because of bad planning.

However, SDAC-10, 12, & 13 were losers because I listened to folks that told me to go ahead and hold events and folks would flock to it because it was popular (road course for 10 & 12, autocross for 13). The autocross at 13 would have been in the black except I was talked into a very expensive site to hold it at ("Oh man, you'll get 100 folks autocrossing, no problem"). Well we only got 33 and only cleared just under half the cost. That is when I had enough of listening to people that THOUGHT they knew what the situation was.

SDAC's 10 & 12 lost big bucks because of low turnout for 10, and both had really expensive road course, and the drag strip at 12 was the same facility as the road course so the same cost per day. We lost a ton of money at those two events. While Canada came in only about $1200 or so short, and Topeka was $1600 IIRC.


and lets not forget that lost convention because someone made a business decision not to sign a contract. Once again you don't exactly have your facts straight, but I will not argue it because it didn't happen on my watch. However, I learned a lesson from that and even when the fire hall where we had hospitality night this year told me that a deposit wasn't necessary, I mailed them a check anyhow as legally that is binding when they cash it (and they did promptly).


Go figure we can't even agree that a business in the red is bad. Since I raised the registration fees for SDAC-14, and quit listening to those that don't have a clue telling me how to do things, our conventions have been solidly in the black (except Topeka).

Barry

moparfwdsleeper
07-09-2007, 10:25 PM
Why not just focus on it in the middle of the the country for the next two events?? Sorry Canada folks but from the sounds of it right now your SOL for the next two years... I think attendance would be better if it was more towards peoples travel time and cost of being there. Sorry if this post is fuzzy, first day back to work from 4th of july week off and it was something else lol.

BadAssPerformance
07-10-2007, 12:16 AM
Keep in mind that the middle of the country geographically is different than the middle of the country SDAC national member population-wise.

SpiritedShelbys
07-10-2007, 12:46 AM
You know.. as I see it I think all of the heaviest Sdac regions need to pool money together to knock one out of the park. Heres something to consider; Shelby isn't going to be around forever and not many of us have seen ANY of HIS #1 cars. If you guys are smart you'll figure a way to make both of those things materialize at the same place, at the same time. I'd fly anywhere on this planet to see that and I'd gamble that all of you guys would do the same. I'm sure you'd have a turnout like never will be again. Think about that.

BadAssPerformance
07-10-2007, 12:51 AM
You talking about Carroll hosting a cook out at his pad and letting us check out his rides? You set that up and we'll ALL be there bro! :thumb:

todge
07-10-2007, 01:03 AM
Well, since the west coasters aren't being represented enough, i'll throw in my 2 cents as well... As far as i can tell the meet in Topeka (West) was one of the worst on record for attendance and the club lost 1500 bucks, and there was how many people that showed. So far, not only have most of the westerners on this board committed financially to the cause but on our regular meet nights, once a month, we can easily outnumber the attendance for the Topeka meet, which apparently was a national meet. What it comes down to, is does someone wanna look at turbo dodges in pittsburgh or sunny southern california?

It was brought up that the meets need to have certain criteria: dragstrips, hotels, family activities, etc... last i checked irwindale dragstrip has the $20 racer fee, i am unable to count the number of hotels in the area, and disneyland, knotts berry farm where right around the corner. Add to that the fact that pretty much all of us out here are willing to chip in bucks, and as FM put it, we haven't even hit up the businesses yet. A lot of us out here even have some experience in putting together track days...albeit road courses, but we're not a bunch of novices.

I have been a member of the local club here for a few years and met some great guys and one girl alan's psuedo friend, mustang sally, and i love the turbo dodge, but i'll be honest, im not flying to Kansas to look at a TD. Im pretty sure that most of the people on this board will agree with me. That being said, if you want to say that SDAC is being run like a business, than shouldn't some money outweigh no money? Lets just say that even with all the money chipped in by the socal guys you still went red, don't you go red anyways???

BTW, im in for 500 bucks for the track....minus my reg fee of course!

Todge

slasky
07-10-2007, 03:20 AM
Would it be better to not lose money and have 50 people show up with about 20 cars or to lose $1000 and have 150 people show up with over 100 cars? I vote for the latter. The way Barry has of putting these evens together I think the days of losing money are behind us. The attendance is what is most important now. I just don't think you will be able to pull a lot of people outside the west coast to a so-cal event. The ones you do will probably not bring cars.
Just look a Topeka. The club had very little financial liability since the SRT club took care of the tracks. In theory it had everything that would make it a great event except a lot of people.
I will probably go to an SDAC no mater where it is. However it is more that a days travel I will be flying in.

fleckster
07-10-2007, 03:58 AM
Well, since the west coasters aren't being represented enough, i'll throw in my 2 cents as well... As far as i can tell the meet in Topeka (West) was one of the worst on record for attendance and the club lost 1500 bucks, and there was how many people that showed. So far, not only have most of the westerners on this board committed financially to the cause but on our regular meet nights, once a month, we can easily outnumber the attendance for the Topeka meet, which apparently was a national meet. What it comes down to, is does someone wanna look at turbo dodges in pittsburgh or sunny southern california?

So you have 66 people show up each month for a monthly meet? What hasn't this info been shared? Where are the pictures, videos, empty beer cars, piles of rubber, and spots of Alan's vomit?

Seriously though, what you guys seem to be failing repeatedly here to understand is say you get more than the attendance of SDAC-16 to show up. Lets say 80 people. That still is quite a bit short of the attendance of almost all Eastern events. (There was that one in Canada after all.) Even if EVERYONE of the SDAC members out West showed, with the huge enthusiast base of the Eastern half of the country, the numbers alone almost dictate that you can't match the numbers that an average event much further East would draw.


It was brought up that the meets need to have certain criteria: dragstrips, hotels, family activities, etc... last i checked irwindale dragstrip has the $20 racer fee

Maybe for a Test and Tune night open to the public! You can't rent a track on say a Monday afternoon for that price!


i am unable to count the number of hotels in the area, and disneyland, knotts berry farm where right around the corner. Add to that the fact that pretty much all of us out here are willing to chip in bucks, and as FM put it, we haven't even hit up the businesses yet. A lot of us out here even have some experience in putting together track days...albeit road courses, but we're not a bunch of novices.

I have no doubt of being able to put it together. It has been done many times in the past. The trick is actually getting people to pay the money and actually participating in the different track events. There used to be a Road Course at EVERY SDAC annual event but the number dropped off so much and the prices continue to rise due to insurance and liabilities that those track events didn't even come close to covering themselves, hence the events started going in the red and eventually, the Road Course and many times, an Autocross are not able to be scheduled. Road Course events only drew about a tenth of the participants of the drag racing.


I have been a member of the local club here for a few years and met some great guys and one girl alan's psuedo friend, mustang sally, and i love the turbo dodge, but i'll be honest, im not flying to Kansas to look at a TD.

It's pretty obvious that you haven't been to an annual SDAC event then. As I and others have stated countless times now just in this thread, it's all about the friends and the friendships and hanging out. The cars just give us a reason to do so. If you talk to Alan seriously about it, he might be able to explain it to you. Maybe it's unexplainable. Most of the diehards that drive there every year even over 12 hours would go if it was in the Arctic if the drive was the same just to see each other again, check out the cool cars, and hang out until the wee hours in the parking lot. San Fran, Chicago, Philly or Smallville, Nevada; Podunk, Indiana; or BFE, Kansas, the fun in the host hotel parking lot wouldn't differ at all.


Im pretty sure that most of the people on this board will agree with me. That being said, if you want to say that SDAC is being run like a business, than shouldn't some money outweigh no money? Lets just say that even with all the money chipped in by the socal guys you still went red, don't you go red anyways???

I guess you haven't been paying attention. With the sole exception of SDAC-16 which was an experiment to try and share costs to have large driving events by teaming with another group and a move further West (and yes all these same arguments were made before that event happened...why does the short term after the annual SDAC event feel like the movie Groundhog's Day with the exact same pros and cons over and over every year?) the national events for the last several years have been in the black and by a fair amount and have started paying off the debts accumulated from the old-style-listen-to-everyone-in-the-membership days of planning and scheduling events.

I'll say this again:

Nothing is stopping you guys from doing this stuff you are talking about! We do them around here too! Turbopalooza, Spring Fling, Cecil County Turbo Mopar Weekend. Make an event happen! Prove to everyone that you can set up a nice track day and Autocross or Road Course. Get the word out and have large numbers show up and participate. Have a huge party in the parking lot or at someone's house afterward. Make it so successful that we'd be crazy to not want to fly out or hook up the trailer and tow out or if we were daring enough to drive our turbo cars out and make sure not to miss it next time! That's how you get attention and convince everyone that a national event has to be scheduled out there! You guys can do it! I know you can! :thumb:

sdac guy
07-10-2007, 05:33 AM
Fleckster summed it up pretty good in his post, but I had this reply all set to go, so here it is.


Well, since the west coasters aren't being represented enough, i'll throw in my 2 cents as well... As far as i can tell the meet in Topeka (West) was one of the worst on record for attendance and the club lost 1500 bucks, and there was how many people that showed. So far, not only have most of the westerners on this board committed financially to the cause but on our regular meet nights, once a month, we can easily outnumber the attendance for the Topeka meet, which apparently was a national meet. What it comes down to, is does someone wanna look at turbo dodges in pittsburgh or sunny southern california? Wow! You guys get 67 people to your local club meetings? I never knew that. That changes everything!!!

I've talked to enough folks out there to know this is not true. You guys usually get about 25 give or take a few. We had 66 registered for Topeka.


It was brought up that the meets need to have certain criteria: dragstrips, hotels, family activities, etc... last i checked irwindale dragstrip has the $20 racer fee, That is what it costs to race on a typical test and tune night. That is not what it costs to rent the track, which is what we do. Usually track rentals come out to 3-5 times that amount per car.


] i am unable to count the number of hotels in the area, and disneyland, knotts berry farm where right around the corner. Well if you can't count, then you are probably not the guy to put together a proposal. :eyebrows:


Add to that the fact that pretty much all of us out here are willing to chip in bucks, and as FM put it, we haven't even hit up the businesses yet. A lot of us out here even have some experience in putting together track days...albeit road courses, but we're not a bunch of novices. Renting the track and getting insurance? Or organizing a group of folks to just show up on the same day at an open track event? The latter is so easy even a novice could do it. :D


I have been a member of the local club here for a few years and met some great guys and one girl alan's psuedo friend, mustang sally, and i love the turbo dodge, but i'll be honest, im not flying to Kansas to look at a TD. Im pretty sure that most of the people on this board will agree with me. Most of the people on this board wouldn't fly to Topeka, but they would fly to California???? I don't believe that for a second.


That being said, if you want to say that SDAC is being run like a business, than shouldn't some money outweigh no money? Lets just say that even with all the money chipped in by the socal guys you still went red, don't you go red anyways??? No we don't. You would do well to READ a few of the other posts I have made on here. Out of the last 4 conventions only Topeka went red (which was out of the ordinary for us by all standards). All the rest made a few bucks. And my business decisions have kept the club in the black overall since 2003 even with two conventions that each lost about $1500 during that time.


BTW, im in for 500 bucks for the track....minus my reg fee of course! Then you are only in for about $350.

Barry

BIGBRUDDA
07-10-2007, 08:41 AM
HELLO!! west coasters Time to "PUT UP OR SHUT UP"!!:amen: Develope your own event!.Seems like you all got money to throw around!
You guys set up a 4day rally with drag racin ,road rally, & car show. Get a hotel For $60/nite friday thru tuesday. Banquet catered for say $15 a head. Trophys, give aways. All the same stuff Barry and SDAC does. For $60 +$85 to race.:nod:

I DARE YA! IDOUBLE DOG DARE YA!!:eyebrows:

Then us "easterners" will maybe haul 4000 mi/rnd trip, maybe not.:thumb:

ForzaV12
07-10-2007, 11:17 AM
It was never my intention to start a big east vs. west internet face-off. I thought it might be fun to have a meet out west(vegas,san diego,whatever). The problems seemed to be a risk to SDAC of having an event in the red and possible poor turn-out. There are a number of us out here that can afford to subsidize the event so I thought it might be a nice gesture that would increase the desirability of an event out west. I know its tough to travel a long distance so my only intention was a way to reduce costs for the participants, thus encouraging participation. No offense to our Topeka residents, but Vegas and the coastal west offer attractions that are always considered top vacation destinations so pardon me for thinking that our members might want to visit. There has never been an event location that could even remotely be considered "out west", so I wouldn't really say that it is a selfish request.

To my knowledge, there has never been any offer by individual members to provide any substantial monetary support at prior events(I'm sure Barry will correct me if this isn't true) to keep costs lower for traveling members.
Rather than being appreciated, the offers are met with comments like, "only 5K to go" , or "if you have so much money to throw around", etc. I almost think that some people wouldn't attend just to spite the west coast group.
I really don't have any interest in "trying out" with smaller events to prove whether or not we are worthy.

Alan returned from the most recent event with comments about the amount of fun that he had and how its all about the people. I know that we have a good time out here with our monthly meets(no, we don't have 65 people every month!) and thought it might be fun to host a national event. We certainly have the ability to assemble a proposal for Barry and have even taken steps in that direction. I certainly don't expect to barge right in and bump next year's location.
Heck, maybe Barry will just keep placating us until he retires from his post-lol.

If this is not something that would be appreciated/supported by the members than tell us now and we won't bother. You won't hurt my feelings, really. Amazingly enough, we do have somewhat of a car culture out here so we'll be ok.:D

2.216VTurbo
07-10-2007, 11:44 AM
So occaisionally this thread has gone too far twards 'he said, she said' but I think it has generated some great discussion too. Lets not discount that it brought another member to TM (even if Todge's new math is skewed a bit it was still his first post:thumb: )

The SoCal group does get great turn outs, typically when I/we (Barry's sources) post the attendance number, that is the number of folks who go into Applebees and sit for the formal meeting/meal. We have plenty more that trickle in after 10 pm just for the post meeting parking lot shennanigans:eyebrows: 25-30 for the meal and often 15 or more for the lot activity. And no Fleck, I don't make a habit to hurl every time I embibe, consider yourself lucky if you saw the 'evidence' of my everclear chugging night cause it's been at least 15 years since I've overindulged to that point. Besides, it was all the vaporized rubber that made me sick anyway:amen:

True we do have some members with some mad money to throw to a worthwhile event, now if we could just get them together with the guys with no-money-but-time-and-orginizational-skills, we could do something worthy. Also don't underscore that we have got the McKissick man offering to help with his contacts and team leading skills that made him the father of a significant portion of the TD's, PT turbos, and SRT-4's etc. Heck our infectious enthusiasm has even got him BACK INTO TD"S after years out of the game. His time in Michigan didn't accomplish that...

Turbodave
07-10-2007, 11:47 AM
I spent a lot of time out in So-cal for work back in the 98-00 timeframe. I was still pretty new to this hobby back then but always had a good time. I still dream of California Junkyards and all those rust free parts, even if they are slightly overpriced. There is a nice car culture out there, the weather is usually great and I think it would be great location for an event, but I'm representative of the die hard few that would go to SDAC no matter where it ends up and no matter what it takes to get there.

When we had the convention here in the Chicago area I had a tough time getting even local members out to the event. We typically get between 15-25 people out to our local meetings each month and have between 50-60 members total in the chicagoland SDAC chapter. Even with the convention in their backyard there were some that weren't willing to take time off work or even head out in the evenings and participate. I would estimate only about a third of our local members particapated in the event when it was here. Not sure if that statistic in similar to what other areas experience, but it's something to keep in mind.

Since the SDAC convention is a lot of times the only vacation I take all year I like that it moves around, and I like the so-cal area, so I would for sure attend. Personally I appreciate that the guys out there are putting forth efforts to make it happen. I do think it would have to be well planned to break even, and I wouldn't expect it to break any attendance records, but I think it would be a great event regardless. My recomendation for the west coast folks is to show that there is a commitment to the event and also show your dedication by attending the next SDAC convention wherever it is. Barry is a lot easier to talk to in person, and if 10 or 12 guys from that area showed they were dedicated enough to the club to fly out to a convention in the east I think it would help drive the effort towards getting a future convention out west. That and a solid proposal of course.

Frank
07-10-2007, 11:56 AM
Well before this gets any worse... Barry is a willing sould and he said proposal. I think this would be good and if I had time to save because of advanced notice, I would go in a heart beat, and you can count on TM's support of the event.

Don't let individual comments and lack of tact from some people dictate the overall group as a whole. Everyone's offers SAY ALOT! I look forward to hear Barry talk about a proposal.


Frank

sdac guy
07-10-2007, 12:20 PM
It was never my intention to start a big east vs. west internet face-off. I understand that fully. :D


I thought it might be fun to have a meet out west(vegas,san diego,whatever). The problems seemed to be a risk to SDAC of having an event in the red and possible poor turn-out. There are a number of us out here that can afford to subsidize the event so I thought it might be a nice gesture that would increase the desirability of an event out west. And in case my last reply to you has been lost in the shuffle of all these posts, please see my post (message # 199). Especially the first and last paragraphs.


I know its tough to travel a long distance so my only intention was a way to reduce costs for the participants, thus encouraging participation. No offense to our Topeka residents, but Vegas and the coastal west offer attractions that are always considered top vacation destinations so pardon me for thinking that our members might want to visit. There has never been an event location that could even remotely be considered "out west", so I wouldn't really say that it is a selfish request. No argument from me at all on that. One thing to consider when trying to sell an area, we include a listing of alternate attractions in the goody bags, for folks to visit in their free time, or for wives/families to explore while Dad is doing the car thing.


To my knowledge, there has never been any offer by individual members to provide any substantial monetary support at prior events(I'm sure Barry will correct me if this isn't true) to keep costs lower for traveling members. What you have offered (and the movement you've started) is unprecedented, and I am truly humbled by it.


Rather than being appreciated, the offers are met with comments like, "only 5K to go" , or "if you have so much money to throw around", etc. I almost think that some people wouldn't attend just to spite the west coast group. I really don't have any interest in "trying out" with smaller events to prove whether or not we are worthy. I am sorry for comments I and others may have made that prompted you to view it this way. I don't think others really want to see an event fail just to be proven right, that certainly would not apply to me. I am wrong often enough, and I usually admit it when I feel I am, that I am used to it. :D

One thing you have admitted with your first posting in this thread, is that you are new to this board. You may also be new to this discussion (though I don't know if you have followed it in the past) which does take place at least once every year, and maybe more. Many of us are used to seeing this discussion (and are somewhat weary of it) so our answers may be more than a little abrupt on occasion.


Alan returned from the most recent event with comments about the amount of fun that he had and how its all about the people. I know that we have a good time out here with our monthly meets(no, we don't have 65 people every month!) and thought it might be fun to host a national event. We certainly have the ability to assemble a proposal for Barry and have even taken steps in that direction. I certainly don't expect to barge right in and bump next year's location. Heck, maybe Barry will just keep placating us until he retires from his post-lol. I promise to do that at the minimum. ;)


If this is not something that would be appreciated/supported by the members then tell us now and we won't bother. You won't hurt my feelings, really. Amazingly enough, we do have somewhat of a car culture out here so we'll be ok.:D To be honest, you do have a tough sell on your hands, and the reason being that to grant the request is in truth only catering to less than 10% of our total membership. So members that attend every year, that would not or could not attend a west coast event may feel slighted. Then, if we did fail to meet our financial goal, I would very justifiably get a huge chorus of "you knew better" and "we told you so" and they would be right.

Please also remember, our event is the Shelby Dodge Auto Club annual convention. It is put on for SDAC MEMBERS. While it is open to anyone with an SD/TD/TM to attend, our event is not held for that crowd. Our event is held for our members, and the number of non-members that attend every year has always been less than 15%. It has crawled up some from previous years, as I used to be able to say it is less than 10%. With our modest overall attendance this year, the non-member turnout was 12.7%.

So I have somewhat of an educated guess-timate on what our likely attendance at a west coast event would be. I would bet that our car show would not have 60 cars, maybe not even 50, overall registered attendance would be less than 75 people, and drag racing would likely have less than 35 participants. These numbers allow for the possibility that the number of non-members attending would nearly equal the number of SDAC members. I think that is very unlikely, but I would not say impossible.

Barry

NeonShowCar
07-10-2007, 12:49 PM
True we do have some members with some mad money to throw to a worthwhile event, now if we could just get them together with the guys with no-money-but-time-and-orginizational-skills, we could do something worthy. Also don't underscore that we have got the McKissick man offering to help with his contacts and team leading skills that made him the father of a significant portion of the TD's, PT turbos, and SRT-4's etc. Heck our infectious enthusiasm has even got him BACK INTO TD"S after years out of the game. His time in Michigan didn't accomplish that...

Lets just get together, work out the financial numbers, locations, attractions, etc. And submit it to Barry. As I've said, I've offered to put this all together for you guys, and I know exactly what Barry is looking for. :D I'm not new to this stuff, yeah might have been outta TD's for quite a while. But as our Governor would say, "I'll be back!" ... LMAO

SpiritedShelbys
07-10-2007, 01:09 PM
Well just for the record here you could add one more to the attendance for the Socal meet IF it weren't on a friggin Thursday. I'd drive down there for every single one but being a student and having to work mon-fri it just ain't gonna happen. I am trying to make it to the next one though.

Mopar_Nutz
07-10-2007, 01:20 PM
I think that there would be a possibility of gaining new memberships from out West if there ever was one out this way. There's alot of guys out East that wouldn't miss an SDAC for anything. Not many of the Western guys have that feeling because it's such an undertaking to even go to one. Personally, from where I'm situated, Topeka is barely any closer than this past one was. It's still a 2 day drive there and 2 days back. The time and money involved in either just put it too far out of my range, no matter how much I'd like to attend.

If there WAS one in the West, some guys out here would be exposed to all that SDAC has to offer and might decided that a membership is for them, and also decide that a trip out East for future ones are worthwhile.
I know from our little local meets that we have once each summer (up to 20 guys), it's hard to convince guys to come out and give it a try, but when you actually come out and see what it's all about. Hang out with the guys, check out the cars, maybe do some racing and of course enjoy the after hours festivities.... It makes it hard to even think about missing the next year. "Trust me it's great", is one thing. But actually experiencing it is another. It's alot of time and money to go out on a limb when you really don't know what to expect.

I can say that I'd definitely show for a real Western meet. I'd personally have a car there, maybe 2. And I know that at least HALF of the guys in my immediate area's would jump in as well. Even though thats only maybe 6-10 guys with cars, this is just the BC interior which isn't that heavily populated and only maybe 3-4 of us are active online..

I understand that a large part of the fear is probably not so much that the Western guys won't show up, but more losing some attendance from the East, which is where the vast majority of members are from. It's a bit hard to guess whether the majority of the Western guys coming would offset however many of the Eastern guys decided not to.

All in all, I think it would be cool (if feasible) to have an event out this way. I think it opens up the possibility of alot of new memberships, and possibly more attendance in the future from this area as well.

Either way SDAC can count on my $30 a year starting last week. $2.50 a month is worth supporting the only club that reprsents the cars we all love, whether I'm involved in the big annual meet or not.

88_pacifica
07-10-2007, 01:28 PM
Umm... I have a dumb question here... Since they(west coast) are acquiring the funds necessary or are attempting to in order to offset a lower turnout, is it at all possible to have TWO events? One east of the Mississippi and the other west? Just treat them each as a "sequel" to the previous one? Maybe one in the spring, one in the fall. This may allow the people to choose. If they do this is it financially viable?

I just don't really understand this thread, but it's like a trainwreck, I just keep coming back to it.

mcsvt
07-10-2007, 01:30 PM
I don't know how I'll get my car there, but I'd attend a west coast event!

ForzaV12
07-10-2007, 01:51 PM
I understand that fully. :D



What you have offered (and the movement you've started) is unprecedented, and I am truly humbled by it.

I am sorry for comments I and others may have made that prompted you to view it this way. I don't think others really want to see an event fail just to be proven right, that certainly would not apply to me. I am wrong often enough, and I usually admit it when I feel I am, that I am used to it. :D

One thing you have admitted with your first posting in this thread, is that you are new to this board. You may also be new to this discussion (though I don't know if you have followed it in the past) which does take place at least once every year, and maybe more. Many of us are used to seeing this discussion (and are somewhat weary of it) so our answers may be more than a little abrupt on occasion.



To be honest, you do have a tough sell on your hands, and the reason being that to grant the request is in truth only catering to less than 10% of our total membership. So members that attend every year, that would not or could not attend a west coast event may feel slighted. Then, if we did fail to meet our financial goal, I would very justifiably get a huge chorus of "you knew better" and "we told you so" and they would be right.

Please also remember, our event is the Shelby Dodge Auto Club annual convention. It is put on for SDAC MEMBERS. While it is open to anyone with an SD/TD/TM to attend, our event is not held for that crowd. Our event is held for our members, and the number of non-members that attend every year has always been less than 15%. It has crawled up some from previous years, as I used to be able to say it is less than 10%. With our modest overall attendance this year, the non-member turnout was 12.7%.

So I have somewhat of an educated guess-timate on what our likely attendance at a west coast event would be. I would bet that our car show would not have 60 cars, maybe not even 50, overall registered attendance would be less than 75 people, and drag racing would likely have less than 35 participants. These numbers allow for the possibility that the number of non-members attending would nearly equal the number of SDAC members. I think that is very unlikely, but I would not say impossible.

Barry


Thanks for the comments Barry. I am new to the board and to this discussion. I do not have any preconcieved notions as to what is or isn't possible. I am interested in your comments regarding the event as it would be foolish to ignore or discount them. All I'm asking for is an honest consideration of an event out west, providing that a serious proposal is presented that meets the club requirements. I would be planning for a possible SDAC 20 since 18 and 19 seem to be already inked. Who knows, maybe our proposal will be so spectacular that you won't be able to wait until 20.:bump2:
I believe in putting my money where my mouth is, so I've just joined SDAC. Now there is one more member out west to increase our numbers. That also adds one more west coast club member that will attend the event.
If and when this ever occurs, I'm counting on you and the eastern crew to support it the best you can-we'll do what we can to make it worthwhile and financially viable.
I think you might be suprised at the turnout we'd get from the west. We'll place Alan in charge of recruitment-I know how persistant he is reminding us of our monthly meet, I can only imagine what a PITA he'd be for a national meet!

BIGBRUDDA
07-10-2007, 01:58 PM
Now for TEXAS:dancingbana:
Why not take this oppurtunity to "grow the sport"
Round up as many big time sponsors as needed. Rent a track there in TEXAS. and hold a FW Mopar only event.:cheer2: Make it an "Invitational meet", with decent pay-outs.:number1: Invite all or any FW mopar with sub 13 sec or 14 sec time slip.:bolt: Run as many classes as ya see fit.
A perfect chance to showcase our cars and all our fabrication/modification talents.
Maybe even get magazine or video coverage.:D

fleckster
07-10-2007, 02:00 PM
Yeaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! Now this thread and discussion maybe paying off!

Just imagine the possibility!

SDAC-18: Location - Known money-making midwest/eastern location #1
SDAC-19: Location - Known money-making midwest/eastern location #2
SDAC-20: SoCal Baby!

That would give us two years to pay off more debt, plan a totally killer event, and give us die-hard go no matter what more Eastern guys an opportunity to save up some dough, get our rides road-worthy enough to make the trip, and plan a way to make it out there!

Turbodave
07-10-2007, 02:45 PM
I don't know how I'll get my car there, but I'd attend a west coast event!

I know how you'll get there, it's called "Cannonball" :thumb: NY to LA. All you need is Dom DeLuise in the passenger seat and you'll be good.

Turbodave
07-10-2007, 03:01 PM
Yeaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! Now this thread and discussion maybe paying off!

Just imagine the possibility!

SDAC-18: Location - Known money-making midwest/eastern location #1
SDAC-19: Location - Known money-making midwest/eastern location #2
SDAC-20: SoCal Baby!

That would give us two years to pay off more debt, plan a totally killer event, and give us die-hard go no matter what more Eastern guys an opportunity to save up some dough, get our rides road-worthy enough to make the trip, and plan a way to make it out there!


Exactly, I could do either SDAC-19 or 20 out west. I would probably take the time to prep one of my vehicles specifically for the trip because that would be 1/2 the fun. I think I would go broke trying to tow a car out there at 11mpg, but driving out in a 28mpg turbo vehicle would work for me. I've got family in western Iowa and Denver so some good stopping points along the way. I drove to CA and back in 1996 with some friends and had a great time. It's a 2000mile drive each way, but I've got a load of great stories from that trip.

I think a key part to making it succesfull would be getting it decided on as far in advance as possible. I know that's tricky with the way some facilities are, but I also think we've got a really determined group out there to help. With a years advance notice I think it could be done and the turnout wouldn't be too bad.

I also think that having an event out west would result in a surge of west coast membership as result, nothing amazing mind you, but I think a lot of the folks that are on the fence about joining would hop over if they knew the event was coming their way. So if almost 10% of the membership is out that way, then my mental math would say once every ten years the event is in that direction?

Barry it's good to see you have an optomistic view on this, when I know your a realist at heart.:thumb:

mcsvt
07-10-2007, 03:15 PM
I know how you'll get there, it's called "Cannonball" :thumb: NY to LA. All you need is Dom DeLuise in the passenger seat and you'll be good.

As long as "Dom" isn't Murphy ;) He tends to forget to tell me directions, like I found out a little at SDAC this year...

I'd prefer to tow... but upper 35+mpg in my Daytona would probably be smarter.

Turbo224
07-10-2007, 03:48 PM
We haven't talked about it on this site, but on the other site myself and a bunch of other local guys are trying to start our own chapter here in Salt Lake. We are holdong our first meet next weekend and we will be trying to get as many people as possible to joint SDAC. I believe the number is 12-15 people that have already planned on showign for the meet and joining sdac. I am sure at least half of us would be willing to travel around for a western event.

sdac guy
07-10-2007, 03:54 PM
Umm... I have a dumb question here... Since they(west coast) are acquiring the funds necessary or are attempting to in order to offset a lower turnout, is it at all possible to have TWO events? One east of the Mississippi and the other west? Just treat them each as a "sequel" to the previous one? Maybe one in the spring, one in the fall. This may allow the people to choose. If they do this is it financially viable?

I just don't really understand this thread, but it's like a trainwreck, I just keep coming back to it. It's not a dumb question at all. In fact Craig & I have discussed this as a possibility when we have talked about how it could be done. But the amount of time I dedicate to planning one of these events would mean that they could not overlap at all. This would put them at least 4, and maybe 6, months apart realistically.

So, that would mean out east would get the spring/summer event because it would have to be weather permitting. That would be the big one when school is out, family vacations, etc. Then we could have a west coast one in the late fall or so.

But two things then would hurt the turnout for the west. Since the summer one happened in the east, those folks would not be as inclined to make the trip to the west, and the west event would also be hampered by not the 'ideal' season, folks had no vacation left, families with children couldn't attend because the kids in school, etc. That scenario would almost be the kiss of death for the west event.

I would not want to do it like that. If we do it out there, it will be done with all the advantages that our normal summer event gets. So that means only one event per year.

Barry

88_pacifica
07-10-2007, 03:58 PM
gotcha.. makes sense. Thanks for explaining that and it is a good point. If I didn't know any better it sounds like you are talking from experience there... :thumb: :D

BadAssPerformance
07-10-2007, 07:35 PM
I know how you'll get there, it's called "Cannonball" :thumb: NY to LA. All you need is Dom DeLuise in the passenger seat and you'll be good.

Hell yeah! What about a SDAC- Rt66 cruise? One year go east and meet up, the next year go west and meet up?

GLHSKEN
07-10-2007, 07:50 PM
If I get enough advance notice, I would "pull" out to a west coast event. The car should be complete by then with another driving alongside. The Family would love it. 2 weeks off. I would LOVE IT. My old stomping grounds.(hell with it that far out... maybe Reeves won't show and some Oone else will win the Quick 8 :eyebrows: ;) ) Nah... We'd pull out together...


Glad the conversation is moving in a good direction

Yo Alan, I'll supply the everclear :thumb:

contraption22
07-10-2007, 08:13 PM
I know how you'll get there, it's called "Cannonball" :thumb: NY to LA. All you need is Dom DeLuise in the passenger seat and you'll be good.


I'll volunteer to be the Dom DeLuise... gotta find some orange windbreakers.

GLHSKEN
07-10-2007, 08:19 PM
Just a thought... Co-ordinate with shelby vegas.. 20th aniversary of the club should get their attention (maybe not with the recent ford affiliation) Get their support.

While I don't mind a so-cal location... I lived in CA for 25 of my 43 years... I just worry abut their damn near FANATICAL smog rules... My car will have nothing on it. I would HATE to pull all the way there and have it "confiscated"

contraption22
07-10-2007, 08:31 PM
While I don't mind a so-cal location... I lived in CA for 25 of my 43 years... I just worry abut their damn near FANATICAL smog rules... My car will have nothing on it. I would HATE to pull all the way there and have it "confiscated"

What can they really do if it's trailered from out of state? Is it legal in your state?

ForzaV12
07-10-2007, 08:34 PM
Just a thought... Co-ordinate with shelby vegas.. 20th aniversary of the club should get their attention (maybe not with the recent ford affiliation) Get their support.

While I don't mind a so-cal location... I lived in CA for 25 of my 43 years... I just worry abut their damn near FANATICAL smog rules... My car will have nothing on it. I would HATE to pull all the way there and have it "confiscated"


We've been thinking along those lines as well, Ken. We do have a few contacts with the Shelby organization so it's definately something we are considering. Car show/tour at the Shelby facility, drag racing at LV speedway, a nice run through the Red rock canyons, plenty of hotels,attractions-hmmmmmm.
If it ends up in so-cal though, don't worry about your car. Out of state plates are not bothered with, especially the older stuff. We've had local law enforcement roll by our meetings recently and they've been very cool about letting us hang out in the parking lot until the wee hours. Maybe because a number of us are "on the job".:eyebrows:

I am encouraged by the direction this thread is headed, as well.

GLHSKEN
07-10-2007, 08:34 PM
What can they really do if it's trailered from out of state? Is it legal in your state?

LOL without a cat... It's not LEGAL in any state

GLHSKEN
07-10-2007, 08:37 PM
If it ends up in so-cal though, don't worry about your car. Out of state plates are not bothered with, especially the older stuff. We've had local law enforcement roll by our meetings recently and they've been very cool about letting us hang out in the parking lot until the wee hours. Maybe because a number of us are "on the job".:eyebrows:

I am encouraged by the direction this thread is headed, as well.

LOL great, My Bro-in Law is captain of a local "law enforcement agency".... tends to help!!!

Ran this by the Family... they like the idea. Nice BIG vacation. Towing the GLHS... Followed by an Iroc R/t with A/c... sweet!!

GLHSKEN
07-10-2007, 08:42 PM
Heck... If nothing else, It's a GREAT reason to convince the wife to buy a cummins and trade in the 360 dakota (those are some TALL passes)

GLHS592
07-10-2007, 08:47 PM
Screw all that driving. I'll have my junk shipped out and fly myself!

patcsx42
07-10-2007, 11:39 PM
I am glad this thread is finally heading in the right direction also!

Driving cross country can be fun most of the time. Tim Pettijohn and I drove 4 years in a row from CA to 5-Harpers Ferry, 6-Topeka, 7-Detroit and 8-Indy. We had a blast along the way. I am just glad that after my 8 year SDAC hiatus (started a Family) alot of the people that I had become friends with then where still attending the current SDAC, not to mention meeting all the new people. I hope to be able to steadily attend all the conventions from now on again, just not with Alan.;)

Thanks Barry for at least considering having the convention out west.:thumb:

Patrick Pedroza
"86" GLHS #35 - GT30 to be on soon!
"89" CSX #42
"04" SRT4