Sdac 18

[20w/ashelby]

I just wanted to let everyone know right now that I will be at SDAC 18 no matter where it is. If I tell anyone anything different please e-slap me. Also I'll be 21. I can finally go to a show and enjoy parking lot festivities like everyone else.:thumb:

[SpoolinGLH]

are you gonna change your screenname??? lol....

[20w/ashelby]

haha yea im working on it. I think im just gonna go with AKA15w/ashelby.

[BadAssPerformance]

Cool... I'll be there too! btw, I moved this to the SDAC forum :thumb:

[SpoolinGLH]

I dont care if it is in Egypt, I will be there.

[20w/ashelby]

From everything I have read this looks like it was the most fun of any SDAC in the last 5-6 years. I went to SDAC 16 but only for show day and race day. I wasnt really hanging out much and wasn't at the host hotel. Next year I will be.

[turbovanman]

I'll be there next year for sure, no van though, there all too far away, :(

[GLHSKEN]

I wouldn't go that far... 15 had good parking lot festivities as well.

Big thanks to the Steel City Chapter. They put on a great show. It was one of the better meets overall. Great people and friendships renewed.

[2.216VTurbo]

I wouldn't go that far... 15 had good parking lot festivities as well.

Big thanks to the Steel City Chapter. They put on a great show. It was one of the better meets overall. Great people and friendships renewed.


But wait Kenny, I wasn't at 15...:lol:

BTW I can call him Kenny now, we bonded :) Nobody else better try it:whip:

[GLHSKEN]

That's about the only thing that would have made 15 better than it was.

Allie's a riot in person... Nice going down the track in the 300 and watching him answer the phone at the 1/8 mile and hold a converation all the way to the turn-off.

That nitrous install and the tire carnage that ensued will be tough to top EVER. Hopefully Alan will spread the word out west about the meet and we can meet more of the left-errr-west coast folks.

[JamesL]

Hopefully Alan will spread the word out west about the meet and we can meet more of the left-errr-west coast folks.

We are probably going to have to do something more middle America to get more West coast guys.

[Clay]

We are probably going to have to do something more middle America to get more West coast guys.

yeah! Like Topeka! ;) hehe sorry, couldn't resist!

[88_pacifica]

I'm thinking INDY!! :D

[sdac guy]

We are probably going to have to do something more middle America to get more West coast guys. Then they better be prepared to come east of the Mississippi. We didn't get ANYONE from a state west of KS last year (except Simon who flew in). And you cannot get much more in the middle of America than Topeka. I don't think we will be having another event west of the Mississippi in the foreseeable future.

Barry

[overlordsshadow]

I'm for middle America, Only 1700 miles from my place to Topeka. Make it a little higher up and about middle America and mabye some of us Canucks will come. 1700 km or less would be worth it I think.

[ShelbyMotorsports]

Why not announce the two potential locations now before a final decision is made so members can add their input on each locations pros & cons?

If SDAC has two locations in mind right now why not let the members decide between the two? I never understood the secrecy behind the location and the delay in officially announcing it.

I'm confident that the more SDAC members are kept informed and the more input they provide can only result in a larger turnout.

[88_pacifica]

Why not announce the two potential locations now before a final decision is made so members can add their input on each locations pros & cons?

If SDAC has two locations in mind right now why not let the members decide between the two? I never understood the secrecy behind the location and the delay in officially announcing it.

I'm confident that the more SDAC members are kept informed and the more input they provide can only result in a larger turnout.

I agree with that.... Illinois somewhere... Chicago maybe...

[BadAssPerformance]

Having hosted it here, the delay is mostly to make sure that the essentials for the event (hotel, car show area, dragstrip, etc) are available and cost effective.

[sdac guy]

Why not announce the two potential locations now before a final decision is made so members can add their input on each locations pros & cons?

If SDAC has two locations in mind right now why not let the members decide between the two? I never understood the secrecy behind the location and the delay in officially announcing it.

I'm confident that the more SDAC members are kept informed and the more input they provide can only result in a larger turnout.But that is just the problem Steve (and JT hit it in his most recent post) it is the logistics that really make the determination.

If folks get to vote or poll then there are hard feelings when "their" site doesn't win. And it is worse when "their" site does win and for some reason we can't use it. We went through that with the New England poll 10 years ago. Took a poll on awards night (I even raised my hand for NE), then a ballot in the next newsletter so EVERYONE could vote.

NE won the vote, but the tracks were too expensive or petty with their operating rules, so it couldn't be done. There were NE folks that whined about that for years. "We were promised a convention ..." That started under the former management and continued after I got the club. In hindsight we learned that was a huge mistake. I swore I would never repeat it.

Look what is happening already, just right here. Instead of focusing my attention cleaning up the after convention records and getting that business done, here I sit replying to what I consider a pretty much useless thread. And if I did the poll or voting, it would consume much more of my time and not guarantee any result (because the logistics really control the decision, not popularity).

We don't want to be in the position of getting folks hopes up about a site and then because of something cropping up having to disappoint them. So we do not release where we are considering until we are fairly certain we can make it happen.

There will be much more on this later in the SDAC Members Only forum and on the SDAC mailing list (once I have all the numbers input from this event).

Barry

[JamesL]

Not to be argumentative but......I think if a few more members from a potential area worked some of the dealers and sponsors in area and came up with a package of financial reasons and resources to have it near their chapter that would go a long way toward mitigating many of the concerns. I don't think this is a useless discussion at all in fact quite the opposite. Again, I think a business meeting of sorts at SDAC would be a good thing.

[20w/ashelby]

In my opinion some discussion like this is very useful. Figure out some possible sites. Get a few ideas. Then let the local chapter work on all the logistics of the location. The chapters could then give you a report of location, hotels, tracks, pricing for everything and convenience of location. You could then take all of that into consideration from these say 3-4 sites. Looking at it from the business stand point you could decide which two of these are best for the club. After all the research is done there could be a formal vote. This way you would know before the vote if the location will work out.

[sdac guy]

Not to be argumentative but......I think if a few more members from a potential area worked some of the dealers and sponsors in area and came up with a package of financial reasons and resources to have it near their chapter that would go a long way toward mitigating many of the concerns. I think the Pittsburgh guys did more of that than has ever been done before (and that has been done at nearly every event before). And the result was more items for the goody bags and discounts at area restaurants. Nobody is going to shell out money unless they can clearly see it is ad money well spent (target audience).

Heck, FWDP probably has a lot more money in the ad budget than T-M.com yet you guys didn't even come close to matching their sponsorship level. So obviously you didn't feel it was worth it. And you guys are reaching your target audience at a high percentage level. So tell me why some local business would be willing to give money to an event that more than likely will not return to their area for a few years? It was asked for this year, and it didn't happen.

There was a local Dodge dealer that was going to bring new models to the car show for display. It was all agreed to in advance, but I sure didn't see them on the show field. So obviously in their mind, it wasn't even worth the effort to do that.

I don't think this is a useless discussion at all in fact quite the opposite. Well you are entitled to your opinion. But I think the only thing this discussion accomplishes is that I am forced to say the same stuff again as I do every year after the event.

Again, I think a business meeting of sorts at SDAC would be a good thing. You know what I think?? I think your posts are only here to stir up crap. You and Cindy had me in private for 40 minutes on Saturday afternoon. I waited for your concerns to be raised, yet all I got was small talk from you two. So here you are again posting your opinions in a public thread where I find myself on the defensive. Neither you nor Cindy has EVER contacted me privately with your suggestions or concerns. You only want to talk trash in public, and I'm sick of it. :mad:

Barry

[ShelbyMotorsports]

But that is just the problem Steve (and JT hit it in his most recent post) it is the logistics that really make the determination.



Well thats where the pros & cons post would come into play.

Lets continue to use Chicago as an example and pretend it was getting more applause compared to another location. That would be the time for you or anyone else to come in and say, Yeah Chicago would be nice but due to costs the registration fee will be higher. The members would then have to decide if they were willing to spend more to have it there.

Better yet why wait for that. If there are two possible locations why not post the info side by side. Post track rental costs for location A and post costs for location B. Post available dates for location A next to available dates for location B.

Same with hotels, food, local attractions, etc. A side by side comparasion should work nicely and common sense would show why the final location was chosen over the other.

Just a suggestion.

[GLHSKEN]

Guys.. You cannot even begin to understand the level of co-ordination required to pull off one of these events. Been there planned that (MJUCH thanks to the Doyle brothers for legwork)

Let's not sit on the sidelines and second guess. Personally, when I want to say something to Barry, I pick up the ph and call. Public debates are not worth it.

[sdac guy]

Well thats where the pros & cons post would come into play.

Lets continue to use Chicago as an example and pretend it was getting more applause compared to another location. That would be the time for you or anyone else to come in and say, Yeah Chicago would be nice but due to costs the registration fee will be higher. The members would then have to decide if they were willing to spend more to have it there.

Better yet why wait for that. If there are two possible locations why not post the info side by side. Post track rental costs for location A and post costs for location B. Post available dates for location A next to available dates for location B.

Same with hotels, food, local attractions, etc. A side by side comparison should work nicely and common sense would show why the final location was chosen over the other.

Just a suggestion. For the reasons I mentioned in my previous posting, I'm not really keen on a vote of any type. And BTW, if we have two sites that are that close, the choice Craig & I make really only selects the event for the coming year. The other one would most likely be the following year. So it is not like we are eliminating a site forever, just delaying that area for a year or two. And for that we have all this discussion going on??? :D

Barry

[sdac guy]

For the reasons I mentioned in my previous posting, I'm not really keen on a vote of any type. And BTW, if we have two sites that are that close, the choice Craig & I make really only selects the event for the coming year. The other one would most likely be the following year. So it is not like we are eliminating a site forever, just delaying that area for a year or two. And for that we have all this discussion going on??? :D

Barry

And the way I see it, people vote by attending. So we have SDAC13 at low 140's attendance and SDAC17 with 136. The two lowest in the last 6 years have both been in the northeast. That is the vote I am interested in.

Memphis was big for 12, Cinci was big for 15, both in the mid-west and not necessarily north.

None of these statistics are lost on me. :D

Baryr

[GLHS592]

Memphis was big for 12, Cinci was big for 15, both in the mid-west and not necessarily north.

None of these statistics are lost on me. :D

Say the word and I'll check into Beech Bend.

[ShelbyMotorsports]

And for that we have all this discussion going on??? :D

Barry

Barry look at it this way. Either we are keeping you young or we are putting you in your grave :lol:

If you had only announced the location like you had planned :D

[DC Turismo]

Has there been a convention yet that did not run smoothly? No. If the event was chaotic then I can see the whole announcing it sooner. But come on guys, Barry has done a great job and these events have been great for as long as I can remember. Therefore, let things be handled how they have been. If you want to propose a meet closer to you, then check with Barry to see what steps you need to take to do so. Otherwise, be patient. :thumb:

[ShelbyMotorsports]

Memphis was big for 12, Cinci was big for 15, both in the mid-west and not necessarily north.


If these were the two possible locations then this would be when members could post the pros & cons.

Memphis Con: HEAT
Memphis Pro: Burnouts in front of Graceland


Cinci Con: Higher cost??
Cinci Pro: Closer for the North of the Border folks.

[sdac guy]

Barry look at it this way. Either we are keeping you young or we are putting you in your grave :lol:

If you had only announced the location like you had planned :D Yeah but then my partner would be disappointed with me. I would rather let him make his case for the other site(s) than have that.

Whatever we decide, I am sure it will be just as good for the attendees either way. :D

Has there been a convention yet that did not run smoothly? No. If the event was chaotic then I can see the whole announcing it sooner. But come on guys, Barry has done a great job and these events have been great for as long as I can remember. Therefore, let things be handled how they have been. If you want to propose a meet closer to you, then check with Barry to see what steps you need to take to do so. Otherwise, be patient. Thanks Billy.

Barry

[sdac guy]

Say the word and I'll check into Beech Bend. I would be interested Kevin, thanks. If you find out anything, please send it privately. Of course no guarantees on going there, but info on a track is always good to have.

Barry

[GLHS592]

OK. We rented it for our local forum a few weeks back. It's a great track. I sent a PM to my good friend who set it all up.

[ShelbyMotorsports]

Has there been a convention yet that did not run smoothly? No. If the event was chaotic then I can see the whole announcing it sooner. But come on guys, Barry has done a great job and these events have been great for as long as I can remember. Therefore, let things be handled how they have been. If you want to propose a meet closer to you, then check with Barry to see what steps you need to take to do so. Otherwise, be patient. :thumb:


Billy with all respect don't forget you knew the location for SDAC 17 long before the rest of us so telling the rest of us to be patient is not fair.

I don't think anyone here is demanding to know the location of SDAC 18 right this minute. I'm actually surprised that there was a possibility for it to have been announced at SDAC-17.

All I'm suggesting is that since its now known that there are two possible locations why not let the members have a say before that decision is final.

[sdac guy]

Billy with all respect don't forget you knew the location for SDAC 17 long before the rest of us so telling the rest of us to be patient is not fair. Not by much though, 2 months maybe? We contacted them in mid January (after a site we had been looking into for more than 3 months fell through) and we announced to our members in March.

All I'm suggesting is that since its now known that there are two possible locations why not let the members have a say before that decision is final. Because in our decision process, we will pick the site that we feel is right for next year. Trust us, we have a little experience behind us.

You are assuming that by putting it to a vote, the right site would be picked just because it is more popular. But there is more that goes into it than that, a lot more.

What we have now is not a toss up by any means. I thought we had a site ready to announce, and Craig suggested looking into someplace else. But Craig's suggested site requires some looking into details, while mine was pretty much a slam dunk. Hopefully we will have an answer to put in the next newsletter, but if not, then we will announce it as soon as we are sure, and not a second before.

If we are waiting until we have our facts in order, why in the world would we move to involve anyone else in the decision process?

Barry

[slasky]

I trust Barry's judgment. I have attended 15 and 17 and I had a blast. The events were very well organized. As an SDAC member I support whatever Barry does for this club 100%.
The only suggestion I have is to try and have the drag racing at night. However, I am willing to bet that Barry has tried to arrange this before but was unable.

[sdac guy]

I trust Barry's judgment. I have attended 15 and 17 and I had a blast. The events were very well organized. As an SDAC member I support whatever Barry does for this club 100%.
The only suggestion I have is to try and have the drag racing at night. However, I am willing to bet that Barry has tried to arrange this before but was unable.Thanks Scott. The night time racing has been suggested before. We didn't ask this year as there is a note on the contract that reads, "There is an extra charge of $400 if the track lights are turned on."

There is also a small concern on how it affects our schedule, but nothing that couldn't be worked out if we tried.

Barry

[cordes]

Thanks Scott. The night time racing has been suggested before. We didn't ask this year as there is a note on the contract that reads, "There is an extra charge of $400 if the track lights are turned on."

There is also a small concern on how it affects our schedule, but nothing that couldn't be worked out if we tried.

Barry

Wow, $400 to crank up some lights. I can see why it was during the day. Night would be nice, but not an extra $400 nice. Call me frugal.

[ShelbyMotorsports]

If we are waiting until we have our facts in order, why in the world would we move to involve anyone else in the decision process?

Barry

Because thats what I thought car clubs were about. Involving its members and using their input to make the most informed decision.

[slasky]

And the way I see it, people vote by attending. So we have SDAC13 at low 140's attendance and SDAC17 with 136. The two lowest in the last 6 years have both been in the northeast. That is the vote I am interested in.

Memphis was big for 12, Cinci was big for 15, both in the mid-west and not necessarily north.

None of these statistics are lost on me. :D

Baryr
What was the attendance for 16?

[Frank]

40 or something small like that and half the people either flew or didn't bring cars. Barry has the real numbers...

[Frank]

Because thats what I thought car clubs were about. Involving its members and using their input to make the most informed decision.

I feel like I am having repeating memories every year about this... why have an event out west if most of the people wont go? Topeka was a great example. Attendance sucked. I could have swore you were coming since it was closer, but then found out that you backed out. (or that was someone else... so apologies if it wasn't)

So not to sound harsh or speak for Barry, but looking at the past... poor attendance in the mid west to west coast is a pretty good reason to stay east and keep SDAC staying in good $$$ graces.

[sdac guy]

Because thats what I thought car clubs were about. Involving its members and using their input to make the most informed decision. That works for small clubs or chapters where folks are concentrated in an area. But there is so much involved in putting on one of these events that it is impossible to bring all our membership up to speed so they could make "an informed decision".

But I will tell you what I will do. We will do a "test run".

Everyone vote for either:

1.) Indy 2008 and Columbus 2009.

or

2.) Columbus 2008 and Indy 2009.

And tell my why it makes a difference to you. Don't flip a coin, I can do that. :D

I want to know your reasoning why one site is preferred over the other for this year or next. THAT is an "informed decision". Any vote cast without a reason to back them up will be discarded.

There ya go, vote away!

Barry

[supercrackerbox]

Then they better be prepared to come east of the Mississippi. We didn't get ANYONE from a state west of KS last year (except Simon who flew in). And you cannot get much more in the middle of America than Topeka. I don't think we will be having another event west of the Mississippi in the foreseeable future.

Barry

Sorry I let you guys down again . . . :p

[sdac guy]

What was the attendance for 16? We had 66 registered for SDAC-16.

I have some interesting numbers developing for this year's event. Once I have them all I will post up in the SDAC Members Only forum.

Barry

[87glhs232]

I don't care if 18 is held in Maine...I'll be there. Branden (SoCalCSX) will be coming with me....and maybe Scotty (omniluvr).

As soon as the dates are announced I'm putting in for the time off. Only question is....do I drive the 'S or the 'tona? Or maybe trailer both.....:D

Incidentally, I vote Indy 2008.

[Marcus86GLHS]

i always wondered: why dont you hold the national SDAC event at the same "best location" every year? like the mopar nats, and dozens of other very successful annual national car events.

pros:
1. everyone knows well in advance of the locale.
2. developing long-term stable relations with local suppliers of services helps control costs.
3. by stabilizing the configuration of the national event we gain prestigue.
4. participants gain familiarity with the locale, helping participants make best plans and relieving all the unknown factors.

cons:
1. what is the "best location?"


i'd be interested in Barry's thoughts on this. i really hope to be at sdac 18.

[sdac guy]

As soon as the dates are announced I'm putting in for the time off. Only question is....do I drive the 'S or the 'tona? Or maybe trailer both.....:D After our diversion from the standard schedule last year (SDAC16) we are now back to our standard planned annual event that starts the weekend after Father's Day. For 2008 that would mean the dates are June 21 thru the 24 (give or take a day).

Incidentally, I vote Indy 2008. Ah, but you didn't give a reason why 2008 vs 2009. You don't give a reason, the vote doesn't count. :D

Barry

[sdac guy]

i always wondered: why dont you hold the national SDAC event at the same "best location" every year? like the mopar nats, and dozens of other very successful annual national car events.

pros:
1. everyone knows well in advance of the locale.
2. developing long-term stable relations with local suppliers of services helps control costs.
3. by stabilizing the configuration of the national event we gain prestigue.
4. participants gain familiarity with the locale, helping participants make best plans and relieving all the unknown factors.

cons:
1. what is the "best location?"


i'd be interested in Barry's thoughts on this. i really hope to be at sdac 18. We get this suggestion every year, and we get how about the same location every other year? But we get many more folks telling us that one thing they really like about our events is that we go someplace different every year. They like to change the location for their vacation around. It is about an 8-10:1 ratio to the above comments.

SDAC-10 which we expected to be overwhelmingly good turnout (because SDAC-9 was canceled) ended up being mediocre in attendance. You know what was the reason I heard most why folks didn't attend? "We've been to Michigan already" was the top reason given.

In reality, having it in one spot would really only benefit the ease of planning and the locals that have in their backyard every year. But the reverse side of that is the folks that would have to drive 500-600 miles (or more) to get there, would have to do that EVERY year. With our current system, hopefully it will be close to the majority of our members every few years.

Barry

[slasky]

I vote columbus 2008 because it is 6 hours away from rochester and hope you find another site for 2009 because indy is 14 hours away.

[sdac guy]

I vote columbus 2008 because it is 6 hours away from rochester and hope you find another site for 2009 because indy is 14 hours away. There you go! Now that's the spirit! :thumb:

But I think your numbers are a little skewed. It isn't 8 hours to drive from Indy to Columbus. Maybe 4, if towing.

Barry

[fleckster]

But I think your numbers are a little skewed. It isn't 8 hours to drive from Indy to Columbus. Maybe 4, if towing.

Barry

It's actually only just over 3 hours and that's if you are towing!

[boostedblue]

I would like to see Indy in 08 than Ohio in 09.Only 4 hours from Chic.Il and well Indy is Indy, thanks :amen:

[Frank]

I vote Indy in 2008 because I had it easy this year with Pgh being only 4 hours for me. Plus I have never been to Indy.


Frank

[cordes]

I would like to see indy next year, as it is very close to me, so I could potentially make it out with two cars. I would also enjoy that because that is where my mom lives, so if I blow up a motor or something horrific, I can just have it towed over there.

Myself and Joy really liked the venue this year, and we are looking forward to the event next year partly due to the fact that it will be in a different place. The fact that it movees was mentioned time and again while we were out in the lot, and it was most everyone's favorite part. If we kept it in once place, I doubt there would be bears running in front of peoples cars during the poker run every year with so many new exciting sites to see.

[fleckster]

Remember that these are only "Hypothetical Voting Sites" and not necessarily the two locations in the running...

I would love Indy as it would be the closest location to me. I brought three cars with me the last time it was there. Columbus would be okay too but I spend a weekend there a year any way since the Mopar Nats are there. The cops around Columbus are ball busters too. (City of Columbus and Reynoldsburg) Oh and the Ohio drivers are scary. (Sorry those of you with Ohio driver's licenses.)

[mcsvt]

My vote is for Indy in 08. I have never been there, that is my reasoning :)

[turboshadow]

Remember that these are only "Hypothetical Voting Sites" and not necessarily the two locations in the running...

I would love Indy as it would be the closest location to me. I brought three cars with me the last time it was there. Columbus would be okay too but I spend a weekend there a year any way since the Mopar Nats are there. The cops around Columbus are ball busters too. (City of Columbus and Reynoldsburg) Oh and the Ohio drivers are scary. (Sorry those of you with Ohio driver's licenses.)

ouch fleck im hurt!:( Anyways I wouldnt really mind either there both 2 hour drives away from me:eyebrows:

[denviola]

IIRC the SRT Nats last year was moved from Indy to Topeka due to cost of event facilities, and more to do in one location.

It will be hard to vote for one or the other objectively not knowing facilities and costs. I really think this poll has no purpose other than appeasing the vocal minority. I agree with Frank, this happens every time. There will be a core group that will go each time, regardless of location. Everyone else will go as able or if convenient. I went to the last two from Pa. without a car, just my pickup (700 & 1100 miles each) and had a blast. A business commitment that I could not get out of kept me from SDAC 17, only 2.5 hours away. And having made the initial attempt to host SDAC 17 in the Pa/Md area and not being able to do so, I better understand the planning and work involved.

Most agree SDAC 15 was likely the best in some time, and I hope 17 was better. There was complaining there at 15 as well as online. An event is what you make it when you are there.

[GLHSKEN]

Missed you Denny.... Sorry you couldn't make it

[ShelbyMotorsports]

I feel like I am having repeating memories every year about this... why have an event out west if most of the people wont go? Topeka was a great example. Attendance sucked. I could have swore you were coming since it was closer, but then found out that you backed out. (or that was someone else... so apologies if it wasn't)

So not to sound harsh or speak for Barry, but looking at the past... poor attendance in the mid west to west coast is a pretty good reason to stay east and keep SDAC staying in good $$$ graces.


Well Frank thats the problem right there. Please show me in this thread once were I've mentioned moving the location out west. Keep looking because I haven't.

Same for you Barry. Please show me in this thread once were I've asked for a vote to be taken. You too can keep looking because I haven't.

I'll repeat the only thing I've asked in this thread in as simple of text as I can:

Barry mentioned that he was ready to announce the location for SDAC-18 but at the last minute decided not to because Craig brought to his attention another location that might be better for SDAC-18.

All I did was ask Barry why not post these two locations and see what the members can add that might make their decision easier.

So how the does this thread turn into Steve is demanding a west coast location or that Steve is demanding a vote on the location?

Maybe this will set the record straight since you two are not reading what I am posting. Barry I do NOT want SDAC-18 held within 1,000 miles of the west coast. If SDAC-18 is held anywhere near the west coast I will NOT attend. Barry I do NOT want to vote on SDAC-18's location. If you send me a ballot I will NOT fill it out.

[sdac guy]

.... I really think this poll has no purpose other than appeasing the vocal minority. Bingo! I thought I would give the hungry masses something to do. Had no idea it would work this well! :lol:

Barry

[mcsvt]

So my useless vote means nothing? I'm so disappointed ;)

I plan on attending no matter.

[88_pacifica]

I would be interested Kevin, thanks. If you find out anything, please send it privately. Of course no guarantees on going there, but info on a track is always good to have.

Barry

+1 for Beech Bend.... very cost effective. I went to the Buick Nationals there about two months ago and every year it is awesome. Also... there were peple there from all quadrants of the country.... It is about right in the middle for everybody. Cincy is also another good location. That's where the other Buick GN "cornerstone" is held in September and you can guarantee I'll be there!

From what I am told the midwest tends to be cheaper overall as that is where the cost of business, services, and overall cost of living is the lowest... that's why I would stay here....

However, Chicago would be closer for the Canucks, so that might hold some weight as well...

Barry, I think you did a great job. I would've loved to go this year, but I didn't have the time or "reliable wheels" to make the trip.... :thumb:

[sdac guy]

All I did was ask Barry why not post these two locations and see what the members can add that might make their decision easier.

So how the does this thread turn into Steve is demanding a west coast location or that Steve is demanding a vote on the location? That is certainly NOT what I meant. In my first reply to you, I did make the jump from additional input as you mentioned to vote. Because there is really little difference, almost only semantics.

That is why I designed my fantasy straw vote poll to give reasons for voting one way or the other. To me the two sites are so similar that there is no advantage for either one in a particular order (this year or next). And most of the reasons given so far are based on convenience (proving that point).

What is convenient for slasky in NY is exactly the opposite situation for someone in MN. So all the "convenient" arguments are a wash from my point of view. Nobody has really given a good reason why either should be one year or the other, except for personal reasons.

Getting back to your early message Steve where I answered the logistics control the decision more than anything, let me give an example. If we had a situation where we had one site with a big motel that could hold all of us and was suitable, and another site where it would take 3 motels but they were all cheaper (by far) then that would be something I might think membership input would useful.

But most of the time we are looking at the bigger items. Like there is a really nice facility we would like to use, but the rest of the setup (mileages to tracks, etc) kind of sucks. So I ask Craig, how can we fix this? What can we do so it doesn't suck so bad? And that is the type of conversation we are having right now (but not exactly).

We have done this a few times before and have some experience in the matter. What we don't need is a ton of suggestions to look through for the nuggets that could possibly be helpful (not likely though) as that is just too time consuming. And the more details we would offer up for suggestion the more this would be compounded.

Until people have the planning of one of these under their belt, they really have no idea how involved it is. Opening it up to member input would make it more difficult for us, it would make our job harder, not easier.

And mind you what is being asked/suggested is not being done to address any problem with the current system. It is only to satisfy the curious. And to me that is not enough justification to do it considering the effort that would be required at my end to filter the responses.

Barry

[denviola]

Bingo! I thought I would give the hungry masses something to do. Had no idea it would work this well! :lol:

Barry

What a thankless position you are in. I certainly appreciate all you do. It always seems there are those that will bash you for location, cost, club treasury, and any of an unending list of gripes.

If anyone is serious about having the annual meet in your favorite location, it's not hard to do:
1. Find a hotel that can block out 80 or so rooms, especially since they have no idea what their rates are for next year as yet.
2. Find a drag strip that has a free date when you need it, and again determine the cost. Be able to justify why it costs so much to those that probably only will spectate or won't come at all. Oh yeah, it has to be somewhat close......
3. Make sure there are family things to do in the area. Hard to believe that SDAC members have families and may want to do something else. Again, these things have to be close or be prepared to address issues.
4. Source a location for car show, again not knowing what next year's rental rates may be. Nearby is again a must.
5. Obtain support from friends to hold the road rally, poker run or organize a cruise. Don't forget that you will need volunteer help from all of your friends. The same friends that would rather be at the event having a good time than manning it.
6. Help out with goodie bags, sourcing items for giveaways.
7. Anyone for autocross or track day? Wow, that's expensive.
8. Make sure club officers have all the details for posting and newsletters. Don't forget to provide maps.
9., 10., 11., you getthe idea it never ends.

OR do it this way - announce a location for next year now, without events or facilities booked.. Then grow a thick skin, since you will take a beating on the location, cost, date or any other thing that POs someone else.

The event will be where it will be. Suggestions can't hurt. If you want your suggestion to be considered, do some leg work and provide more than your opinion. Close to me just doesn't cut it.

[20w/ashelby]

In my opinion some discussion like this is very useful. Figure out some possible sites. Get a few ideas. Then let the local chapter work on all the logistics of the location. The chapters could then give you a report of location, hotels, tracks, pricing for everything and convenience of location. You could then take all of that into consideration from these say 3-4 sites. Looking at it from the business stand point you could decide which two of these are best for the club. After all the research is done there could be a formal vote. This way you would know before the vote if the location will work out.

Apparently no one has input on this idea?

I don't think people are as much complaining as they are trying to come together to improve future events. Barry, you do a wonderful job. We're just trying to propose ideas to take some load off. In my opinion planning sooner makes things easier for all parties involved.

[Turbodave]

Everyone vote for either:

1.) Indy 2008 and Columbus 2009.

or

2.) Columbus 2008 and Indy 2009.

And tell my why it makes a difference to you. Don't flip a coin, I can do that. :D


Ok, I vote for Indy in 2008 and Columbus in 2009.

Why does it make a difference? Indy is a little further west than Columbus, Pittsburgh was East, Topeka west, Cincy East, Chicago West, MD east, Memphis west, Canada East, Detroit West. Now I'm referring to the eastern half of the country where the majority of the members reside. We have a good swing going where the event moves east and west each year, allowing it to be closer some years, farther away others. A balance I would like to keep.

That said, Denny is right on the money with his post above. A lot goes into a convention. I helped with planning SDAC-14 and we pretty much came to Barry with a plan ahead of time, not everything was set in stone, and almost everything changed before the event happened, but having a viable plan before-hand is the key.

Barry, we can discuss this more offline if you would like, but any thought of having an SDAC convention planning comitee that includes the folks that helped plan prior events? I know personally I learned a lot when we hosted the event here, and I'm more than willing to help with the next convention where-ever it is located.

[87glhs232]

Ah, but you didn't give a reason why 2008 vs 2009. You don't give a reason, the vote doesn't count. :D

Barry

I voted Indy based on my speculation that being in Indy we might be at the Indy Motor Speedway complex....something I would like to be in on. And since I may not make SDAC 19 , I went with Indy 2008. Does my vote count now? :)

Either way I'll be there. 3-4 additional driving hours is not going to hurt my feelings at that point.

[Turbodave]

Apparently no one has input on this idea?

I don't think people are as much complaining as they are trying to come together to improve future events. Barry, you do a wonderful job. We're just trying to propose ideas to take some load off. In my opinion planning sooner makes things easier for all parties involved.


Your idea is similar to what has happened in past years with the exception of the voting part. The problem is that there really isn't enough time to gather all the details, take a vote and plan the event. I've learned first hand that most places don't want to commit to anything until after the 1st of the year, Most track owners don't return calls or emails, and once you think something might work it will fall through. Also have to consider that many SDAC members are not online, so the only fair way to setup a vote would to be by mail, that adds at least a month for responses to come in.

[88_pacifica]

.... Also have to consider that many SDAC members are not online, so the only fair way to setup a vote would to be by mail, that adds at least a month for responses to come in.

or an emailed survey.... ;) results in a few days tops. Frank knows I can help there!... :thumb:

[20w/ashelby]

I agree with you Dave and understand what your saying. I'm just throwing out my ideas. I also think the more input the better the situation will be.

One more thing. I vote SDAC 18 out of ohio. I know a place in Ohio that most likely won't be open until summer and would be too late to organize by that point. But the next year I plan to make an argument for my site that could possibly bring an interesting twist to SDAC.

[sdac guy]

Apparently no one has input on this idea?

I don't think people are as much complaining as they are trying to come together to improve future events. Barry, you do a wonderful job. We're just trying to propose ideas to take some load off. In my opinion planning sooner makes things easier for all parties involved. The problem is everyone that hasn't done or tried to plan one of these has a fairly simplistic view of what is involved. Denny's laundry list only scratched the surface of what is involved.

Everything you suggested with chapter involvement is already done AFTER the site is determined. To start it off, chapters usually submit some sort of informal proposal outlining the facilities available in their area.

As for starting the planning earlier? Last year Denny & I talked about his plan while we were in Topeka. He started getting folks together to research items as soon as he got home (that would have been in July last year). The key items he mentioned is the problem that hotels and tracks do not really want to talk about reservations or rentings until they have the rates set for that year and that usually happens in January. We have contacted a number of tracks and motels that tell us to call back after the first of the year. It is not unusual at all.

When we announce a site, it is usually not fully researched, just the preliminaries are done. We don't know the motel till the 1st of the year, car show sites and tracks till early spring. We start the planning, but for an event as small as ours, facilities are not willing to jump through hoops for our business. We get the info on their schedule, not ours.

And incidentally if we happen to be in a tourist type of area as SDAC-14 was in Waukegan. Those motels are usually booked solid all season and they do not care if they have our business or not. I know I called a couple dozen motels in 6-8 cities up that way before we found one that wanted our business enough to not charge us $150 per night (and they did give us a great rate for the rooms).

Barry

[sdac guy]

I voted Indy based on my speculation that being in Indy we might be at the Indy Motor Speedway complex....something I would like to be in on. And since I may not make SDAC 19 , I went with Indy 2008. Does my vote count now? :)
Yep! Great reason! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Barry

[sdac guy]

or an emailed survey.... ;) results in a few days tops. Frank knows I can help there!... :thumb:

Newsletter by regular mail is the only way to reach all our members, and that is a slow process. The best I can tell, 1/4 to 1/3 of our members do not have email or any online presence.

There will never be a vote, so folks can stop speculating on how it should be carried out.

Barry

[Turbodave]

There will never be a vote, so folks can stop speculating on how it should be carried out.

Barry

I think we should vote on whether or not a vote is needed :D

[cordes]

I think we should vote on whether or not a vote is needed :D

I love seeing democracy in action.

[85glht]

Look what is happening already, just right here. Instead of focusing my attention cleaning up the after convention records and getting that business done, here I sit replying to what I consider a pretty much useless thread. Barry


I don't think it is useless at all.

Just stating a point, that, the sooner people know where the next convention is the sooner people can plan for it. Just my $.02 :amen:

[88_pacifica]

I voted Indy based on my speculation that being in Indy we might be at the Indy Motor Speedway complex....something I would like to be in on. And since I may not make SDAC 19 , I went with Indy 2008. Does my vote count now? :)

Either way I'll be there. 3-4 additional driving hours is not going to hurt my feelings at that point.

Negative on the IMS Speedway... That is a totally different location and entity than Indianapolis Raceway Park(O'Reilly Raceway Park now.. :mad:). They are not connected in any way and are about 10 miles apart. However, it is the home for the NHRA US Nationals and the number one drag track in the world... I'd LOVE to see it here in Indy, don't get me wrong... but that is unfortunately not a valid reason. :(

[Russ Jerome]

I think we should vote on whether or not a vote is needed :D

Its like voting on your christmas present, its more fun when
Barry justs happily surprises you with the loaction. No vote.
(he says with a voice that begs for a realy good drag strip
for SDAC18)

[DC Turismo]

For those saying they can't plan for it unless it's announced like, now, you're full of it. People are able to plan for it long in advance even though knowing that the location isn't announced roughly until the beginning of that year. You are given the dates prior to that even most of the time. To make things simple, block out that length of time with work and don't procrastinate with your project and you're fine.

Rather than ranting about location being announced this early, why don't those of you arguing put your posts to good use, like suggesting different alternatives to what you'd like to see at this event. For instance, I have two examples:

A) One thing that we Steel City Folks overlooked until the last minute was the local go cart track that wasn't too far from the hotel. We noted it in our 'attractions' post, but did not put much emphasis on it. I personally did not think people would have that much time or interest to run up to there, but guess what, they did! Most of the people went there instead of participating in the poker run! LOL So in this case, I'm attempting to say that why don't you make suggestions at points of interest that you would like to be able to take part in at the next convention.

B) Secondly, I was going through some old papers in a filing cabinet last night and came upon a trifold map that the Ohio Valley guys had made for the SDAC-15 which they hosted. This was a map with perfectly laid out points of interest - restaurants, etc. Compared to our listing of these, I wish I would have seen this prior to the event and would've gone ahead and done the same for 17. With this example, I'm trying to say point out some more resources that you would like to see at these events besides the typical informational program.

Think about it, you can argue about all of this until you're blue in the face but even if you're passed out from doing so, the event will still go on. Rather, if you put your posts to use and gear your discussion towards things that could be USEFUL, NOT crap getting in the way, then who knows, maybe your suggestion can be something that would be very helpful to the next event?!

And just like Dave said Barry, any input needed, let me know.

[sdac guy]

I think we should vote on whether or not a vote is needed :DOkay we have a motion for a vote to see if a vote should be held. Is there a second for that motion? Sorry time's up, motion denied. :lol:

I don't think it is useless at all.

Just stating a point, that, the sooner people know where the next convention is the sooner people can plan for it. It is useless because every year this same thread is started and I answer the same questions endlessly, and nobody remembers any of the answers, and next year I'll be doing it all over again. It will accomplish nothing.

And as for "the sooner people know" well over the last two days replying to this thread has wasted about half my free time. So as it stands right now, this thread has pushed everything back one day, including the announcement. And for the record, I have already stated in this thread WHEN the event will be next year. So folks CAN start making plans.

Negative on the IMS Speedway... That is a totally different location and entity than Indianapolis Raceway Park(O'Reilly Raceway Park now.. No. He got it right. But he didn't mean to race at IMS. When we were at Indy in both 1994 & 1998 we had our car show there and did pace laps around the Brickyard. The photo of my car in my sig is the photo taken of me crossing the finish line there in 1998. Everything but the car has been cropped out, but that is where that photo was taken. If we go back to Indy, IMS will certainly be on our schedule.

Barry

[88_pacifica]

No. He got it right. But he didn't mean to race at IMS. When we were at Indy in both 1994 & 1998 we had our car show there and did pace laps around the Brickyard. The photo of my car in my sig is the photo taken of me crossing the finish line there in 1998. Everything but the car has been cropped out, but that is where that photo was taken. If we go back to Indy, IMS will certainly be on our schedule.

Barry

Freakin awesome Barry!... I can't wait tilll it comes this way again... :thumb:

[GLHS592]

Indy! Indy! Indy!

[moparman76_69]

I would say Indy because:

a. One of the best drag strips
b. close to me
c. be a good chance for OVC and Chicagoland chapters to maybe co-host
d. maybe all of the guys on the boards from indy will show and we can petition to get a chapter based here.

[BadAssPerformance]

I would say Indy because:

a. One of the best drag strips
b. close to me
c. be a good chance for OVC and Chicagoland chapters to maybe co-host
d. maybe all of the guys on the boards from indy will show and we can petition to get a chapter based here.

I think you would have a better case for Indy if you get the chapter started first :thumb:

[fleckster]

I would say Indy because:

a. One of the best drag strips
b. close to me
c. be a good chance for OVC and Chicagoland chapters to maybe co-host
d. maybe all of the guys on the boards from indy will show and we can petition to get a chapter based here.

Indy would be great but there is no way we could afford the track rental. According to Barry it was over $3000 to rent the track this year. It was a nice track and surprisingly prepped very well (lots of VHT!) but no where near the size of O'Reily Raceway Park. It would cost us over $5000 to get the track and even with the record number of racers to offset the cost, it would still have to be over $120 each to race for the day. I know people would balk at that price. Even then we wouldn't cover the cost and loose money. We will never be able to pull of Indy again since there are no other near by 1/4 mile tracks unless we would get a partner. After SDAC-16, I wouldn't look for that to happen again any time soon either.

[88_pacifica]

Indy would be great but there is no way we could afford the track rental. According to Barry it was over $3000 to rent the track this year. It was a nice track and surprisingly prepped very well (lots of VHT!) but no where near the size of O'Reily Raceway Park. It would cost us over $5000 to get the track and even with the record number of racers to offset the cost, it would still have to be over $120 each to race for the day. I know people would balk at that price. Even then we wouldn't cover the cost and loose money. We will never be able to pull of Indy again since there are no other near by 1/4 mile tracks unless we would get a partner. After SDAC-16, I wouldn't look for that to happen again any time soon either.

Fleck... what about Muncie? That can't be too expensive...

[fleckster]

I think you would have a better case for Indy if you get the chapter started first :thumb:

To the best of my knowledge, there were only four "people" from Indiana at SDAC-17. In addition to myself, there was Clay (and family), Derrick (and he was without car this year I'm sorry to report. His Masi GLHS is sweet!), and Gary Lavengood (and his wife in their beautiful green Shelby-fied Rampage). Not exactly the strongest support for a Chapter.

[fleckster]

Fleck... what about Muncie? That can't be too expensive...

Muncie is over an hour drive from Indy and therefore not very feasible for inclusion in trying to plan an event in Indy. People would more than likely not be interested in staying at a hotel in Indy, going to the show at The Brickyard, then driving all the way out to Muncie in the middle of no where.

[88_pacifica]

true....

[BadAssPerformance]

To the best of my knowledge, there were only four "people" from Indiana at SDAC-17. In addition to myself, there was Clay (and family), Derrick (and he was without car this year I'm sorry to report. His Masi GLHS is sweet!), and Gary Lavengood (and his wife in their beautiful green Shelby-fied Rampage). Not exactly the strongest support for a Chapter.

Having about 50 members total, CL only had a handful at SDAC-17... More people in Indiana area on this forum too...

[Clay]

yeah, but fleck and I have tried to get a chapter started here, and there are always lots of people who say "yeah sounds good!", but when it comes time to put up or shut up, people never showed up.

I havent given up on the idea of an indy chapter, but right now being a step child of the OVC group is ok with me! :)

[sdac guy]

Muncie is over an hour drive from Indy and therefore not very feasible for inclusion in trying to plan an event in Indy. People would more than likely not be interested in staying at a hotel in Indy, going to the show at The Brickyard, then driving all the way out to Muncie in the middle of no where. But we did exactly that routine at SDAC-4. It wasn't too bad going out to Muncie in the morning as everyone was looking forward to racing. But it sure seemed like a long drive back to Indy that evening. And of course once we got into town it was rush hour and the folks trailering did not enjoy that experience. At SDAC-8 we used IRP which was nice, but it was expensive even 10 years ago.

Barry

[GLHS592]

yeah, but fleck and I have tried to get a chapter started here, and there are always lots of people who say "yeah sounds good!", but when it comes time to put up or shut up, people never showed up.

I havent given up on the idea of an indy chapter, but right now being a step child of the OVC group is ok with me! :)

Boy, does this sound familiar. Too bad I'm not close enough to the OVC guys to be a step child. I have pretty much given up on SDAC Mid-South.

[GLHSKEN]

Heck Kevin, we conside you a stepchild!!! You are always welcome here.

[mo' parts]

both 15&17 were excellent events!! course those are the only two i have been to so far..... and count me in for 18 as long as i dont have to fly there:)

i enjoy seeing the new places and countryside by having the event change locations(can you tell i have'nt been out of slo-hio much) from time to time.
i also liked how we had a little larger "playground" at 17
for the evening/night festivities, and shops/food locations pretty much within walking distance from the hotel. which im sure there were times when some of us "needed" that. i know i did

as usual the crowd was great, friendly, kind and just overall had positive atmosphere around them. which is great concidering this one seemed a little more family oriented than 15, maybe it was just me... i am taking that into concideration for 18, as i may bring my son with me. had i know there would have been other youngens there, im sure myself and Steve (CUDDA TUGGER)would have brought our boys, as they are getting the t-m bug started early in life:thumb:

oh, i vote for 18 to be where it will benefit SDAC and its members the most, where ever that may be:) and im sure that where ever it is the sponsoring chapter will put on a good show as usual, as most of the members i have met are good outstanding guys/gals.
i know what days i'll be taking for vacation next year, do you?

[CSX321]

Although I was only able to be there Saturday and Sunday (due to changing jobs and having no time off yet), I was glad to attend my first ODD-NUMBERED SDAC! :) I was at 12, 14, and 16, but missed 13 and 15. And, for a change, this time I was able to drive one of my Shelby Dodges instead of the SRT4. :thumb:

Good to see and talk to people again. Looking forward to coming years, and inspired to put some more work into the '89!

[Turbo224]

Well, I have zero hopes of an event ever getting this far west, but I know I would have a really hard time coming to one if I couldn't drive my car out there. Probably kills my chances of coming. Maybe one day I ill own a td that will make a cross country trip!

[glhs727]

Heck, FWDP probably has a lot more money in the ad budget than T-M.com yet you guys didn't even come close to matching their sponsorship level. So obviously you didn't feel it was worth it.

Can you explain what this means? You told James a price and we paid it. I didn't know there was sponsorship levels. In addition, we held the "kick-off party at zero cost to the SDAC. That wasn't cheap either. So if there are different sponsorship levels maybe you should tell us what they are.

Well you are entitled to your opinion. But I think the only thing this discussion accomplishes is that I am forced to say the same stuff again as I do every year after the event.

You know what I think?? I think your posts are only here to stir up crap. You and Cindy had me in private for 40 minutes on Saturday afternoon. I waited for your concerns to be raised, yet all I got was small talk from you two. So here you are again posting your opinions in a public thread where I find myself on the defensive. Neither you nor Cindy has EVER contacted me privately with your suggestions or concerns. You only want to talk trash in public, and I'm sick of it. :mad:

Barry
That is a bunch of bull crap. The main reason is you run the sdac like a dictatorship. We only suggested since you have a captive audience and the largest group of members in one place at the same time, it would be the perfect time to go over club business. Telling me if I want to see the "books" I have to make an appointment with you and go to Michigan to do it is ridiculous. Open the books at the sdac convention for 2 hours, hold a question and answer session, throw out the posibble location and date for the next years convention and let your members have input. Why is that not acceptable? James and I along with lots of members want to see this club flourish. But if you look at the numbers of attendees is going down not up, and I have heard from many it is because they feel they have no input. Everyone will agree that you do a good job getting the conventions organized, and we do appreciate it. BUT this club could grow and the events get better, and your workload be easier if you would let others HELP!!!
If you don't want FWD to help out, or to sponsor, or to be part of future SDAC events, just say so. BUT what you said above is flat out wrong, and as supporters of the club and it's members, I think you owe an apology.
later,
Cindy

[rbryant]

Has SDAC ever been on the western 1/3 of the country? I think Topeka is about as far west as I can remember it being... Sometime in the next few years it should be in Cali/Oregon/Nevada/Arizona/Texas. I guess the time of year doesn't really work well for west coast summers though.

-Rich

[bradp]

I vote for Indy and will help anyway I can.

[fleckster]

This thread cracks me up...

[sdac guy]

Can you explain what this means? You told James a price and we paid it. I didn't know there was sponsorship levels. In addition, we held the "kick-off party at zero cost to the SDAC. That wasn't cheap either. So if there are different sponsorship levels maybe you should tell us what they are. You took that out of context quite a bit. James said: Not to be argumentative but......I think if a few more members from a potential area worked some of the dealers and sponsors in area and came up with a package of financial reasons and resources to have it near their chapter that would go a long way toward mitigating many of the concerns.I took this to mean we (or the host chapter) should look to local vendors/dealers for financial assistance for the event. My reply was that first we would need to convince them that it is in their interest to do so. A tough sell when our guys have 20 year old cars (not target audience for new cars), and that we would be in their area for less than a week and not return for a few years if at all.

I then went on to say that FWDP didn't see fit to go beyond the minimum sponsor amount. And that you guys know you are reaching your target audience, so if you didn't want to go beyond that, it would be a harder sell to a new car dealer. That was my point. I also used the example of the dealer that was supposed to bring new cars out to the car show, but didn't, noting that he must have felt even that much was not worth it. My entire comment was to disprove what James claimed above (that local dealers would be willing to contribute money).

As far as sponsorship levels, no there are not various levels. But this is what I told James in a PM here when he inquired, "The minimum sponsorship fee this year is $200, but more than that can be given and it is entirely at your discretion. " I think that is pretty clear.

That is a bunch of bull crap. The main reason is you run the sdac like a dictatorship. No I run it like it is my business, which it is 100%. You own a business, do you want others telling you how to run it? If not, I feel the same way.

SDAC is a not-for-profit social club. It is incorporated as that. I never had any input into the by-laws when our attorney drew them up in 1999. As far as I know, he pulled them right out of a book for non-profit social clubs incorporated in Michigan. But in those by-laws I have the option of appointing officers and directors as I see the need. Also in those by-laws, members do not have voting privileges in decisions made by the officers or directors. I live by the rules Cindy. If you don't like those rules, too bad.

We only suggested since you have a captive audience and the largest group of members in one place at the same time, it would be the perfect time to go over club business. And I moved that portion of James' original post to the SDAC Members Only forum and addressed that issue there.

Telling me if I want to see the "books" I have to make an appointment with you and go to Michigan to do it is ridiculous. No it isn't. I could make copies for you .... but, ... I don't trust you, or what you would do with them. So if you want to see them, you are welcome to come look at them.

Open the books at the sdac convention for 2 hours,Why, what would it solve other than just curiosity? Since I am already so pressed for time at the event, why just for curiosity sake, should I set aside two hours that I don't have spare to begin with? No, you see it as convenient for you, and that is all you care about, YOU.

hold a question and answer session, throw out the posibble location and date for the next years convention and let your members have input. Why is that not acceptable? The problem with all this is you have an overwhelming tendency to underestimate the complexity of the situation or decision process. It is so simple to YOU. But it is not a simple task, and it cannot be explained fully even in a few hours. And the truth of the matter is, the process we go through to decide a location is so involved with things that members can't input on, that to ask member's their opinion as you describe would not be pertinent to the decision process.

Example (in case you have not read anything else in this thread), we have a site that we know will be popular, the planning for it would be easy on us, the local folks are a great group. To me it is a slam dunk, I was ready to announce it at SDAC-17, just to be ahead of the game for once.

But Craig says, hey I got an idea, how about this area? And starts to explain the options (most of which I already knew). So now we first have to see if what we would like to do there is even possible. Sort of like a feasibility study. Member input for this is absolutely useless. We don't even know if we can put it all together yet. So when you ask us to get folks involved, do you see how you are putting the cart before the horse, so to speak?

What we do now is to get the local folks there to make inquiries for us, and to contact the venues ourselves to see what their rules are, to see if we can even rent the place. This is so far removed from anything a group of members can contribute to, that to say anything would only get hopes up, and then if it doesn't come to pass, folks would be disappointed. I'm not going to do that.

James and I along with lots of members want to see this club flourish. But if you look at the numbers of attendees is going down not up, and I have heard from many it is because they feel they have no input.Part of that is because folks misunderstand the member terms. There has never been anything on our website or newsletter stating that paying dues gives the member the right to say how things are done. From my track record on implementing suggestions, many can attest to the fact that I do listen to them. So I don't ignore folks. But new suggestions are few and far between, so if someone suggests something that has already been evaluated, then they are given that evaluation in response.

Everyone will agree that you do a good job getting the conventions organized, and we do appreciate it. BUT this club could grow and the events get better, and your workload be easier if you would let others HELP!!! Many others do help. I've just never asked for your help, and that is because I don't like you. I don't like you because you only want to talk trash online. For your concerns, you have never emailed me, phoned me, or as I pointed out, even when you and James were in my room Saturday putting your flyers in the goody bags, you only chose small talk. I was ready for the big questions Cindy, and they never came.

What you may find surprising is that I am really much more open and not defensive when not being beat up on in a public forum.

If you don't want FWD to help out, or to sponsor, or to be part of future SDAC events, just say so. BUT what you said above is flat out wrong, and as supporters of the club and it's members, I think you owe an apology.
later,
Cindy What you want to do or not do for SDAC members is up to you. You may get a public apology when I am convinced you are sincere in your concerns, and not just raising them so I can be your whipping boy online. And right now that is a long way off for me.

Barry

[sdac guy]

Has SDAC ever been on the western 1/3 of the country? I think Topeka is about as far west as I can remember it being... Sometime in the next few years it should be in Cali/Oregon/Nevada/Arizona/Texas. I guess the time of year doesn't really work well for west coast summers though.

-Rich The problem is Rich, the area of the country is really dictated by if we can at least break even on the event. With Topeka in the physical center of the country we hoped the turnout would be better, but it wasn't and we lost money on it.

Our membership is extremely top heavy east of the Mississsippi, so the further we go west the fewer that will make the trip from the east. We went to the SAAC X does Vegas last year (Craig went, I couldn't make it) and even SAAC has trouble getting the turnout in the west. But the number of our cars/members there was very poor.

All of this adds up to the fact that unless we can find a way to hold a bare bones event that costs us next to nothing (less than a couple grand) there is no way we can have an event out west.

Barry

[Dodgeglht]

I've been reading this whole thread & I can say it's ridiculous. This year I didn't make my first SDAC because of poor planning. By the time I was serious about going I had no cash & when I did have the cash no rooms were available & more importantly the car was not ready.

Bottom line, everyone's entitled to their opinion on where it should be & everything, but all that should matter is having fun when it happens. I've seen the other posts on how much fun those that went had, & that makes me want to go to next years SDAC. I plan on going next year, so I say just let sdac_guy do his thing & quit complaining where it will be.

After all, if you go regardless why does it matter where it is?

[Keito]

Just my .02$
I think it's a blast for me to drive to and from SDAC with my friends, and hang in the parking lot till 5 am.
If the event was local for me, I wouldn't get to do either.
I know my wife would not let me pay for a hotel if it
was within a 1/2-1 hour of home.
I enjoyed talking with you Monday night Barry, when Jay and I came down to pick up my goodie bag.
Amazed me you can remember all the attendance # from the past SDAC's.
Keep up the great work!:thumb:

Keith

[dodgeshadowchik]

wherever it is next year, i'm going to really try and go. :)

i can't beleive that local dealers and such wouldn't being any cars out to the show. I mean, I see new cars being brought out to what are considered true "classic car" shows... and those cars are much older than the turbo dodges. I guess they feel that the turnout of SDAC is not as large as these other shows and therefore not worth thier time.... which is kinda sad.

I'm sorry to see ths thread take a turn towards bashing. I can see his point on keeping major SDAC decisions left up to a few people; as people get dissapointed when thier suggestions or ideas are not used.

Anyways, I hope that things will get resolved! I personally do not think FWDP meant any harm in thier statements... and from my dealings with them, they are nice! Perhaps thier suggestions were not mentioned at the event because they didn't think of them until after the fact? Or perhaps a pm or email would have been better in hindsight. I think this group of people are some of the most friendly car enthuisents around and hope that this matter can get resolved! I really don't believe any harm was meant.

[JamesL]

Whoa there now Barry, no need to blow a gasket over some conversation and suggestions. You are far too defensive here. I haven’t read the entire thread at this point and I [probably shouldn’t. Since when can’t a person make a few suggestions? I think the Pittsburgh guys did a great job. Personally, I would have liked to have had some road racing and auto-crossing but budget didn’t permit. My only point was that possibly with some Turbo Mopar ingenuity, a chapter or group of chapters could do some fund raising and put a financial package together to lobby SDAC to have the event in their area. Kinda of like what cities do to get the Olympics. I was not degrading anyone’s effort, simply trying to express an idea that helps SDAC fund a better event and motivates members to try to get the event in their area. Simple as that!


Heck, FWDP probably has a lot more money in the ad budget than T-M.com yet you guys didn't even come close to matching their sponsorship level. So obviously you didn't feel it was worth it. And you guys are reaching your target audience at a high percentage level. So tell me why some local business would be willing to give money to an event that more than likely will not return to their area for a few years? It was asked for this year, and it didn't happen.

What the hell is that? Are you kidding me? We didn’t feel it was worth it? For the last several years, shutting a business down, traveling across the country, registrations fees, kick-off parties, give-aways, event sponsorship, paid participation in the events…since when did you start offering sponsorship levels or keeping score? Why would you want to politicize this? And, as the club president, is it wise to turn away sponsorship funding for an event that you claim struggles financially?


There was a local Dodge dealer that was going to bring new models to the car show for display. It was all agreed to in advance, but I sure didn't see them on the show field. So obviously in their mind, it wasn't even worth the effort to do that.

Promoting an event takes more than a phone call. But I guess your point is that nobody wants to support it. If that’s the case so be it. I would argue that some people are better at promting, procuring sponsors and seeing that they follow through than others. This might be evidenced by a group of highly motivated Turbo Mopar enthusiasts putting a package together to lobby SDAC to come to thier area. That winning group gets to grin because they don’t have to haul across the country. But I’m repeating myself again.


Well you are entitled to your opinion. But I think the only thing this discussion accomplishes is that I am forced to say the same stuff again as I do every year after the event.

And this why a meeting at SDAC is a good forum for face to face discussion. But its only a suggestion and I don’t see why anyone would have to get so defensive about it.


You know what I think?? I think your posts are only here to stir up crap. You and Cindy had me in private for 40 minutes on Saturday afternoon. I waited for your concerns to be raised, yet all I got was small talk from you two. So here you are again posting your opinions in a public thread where I find myself on the defensive. Neither you nor Cindy has EVER contacted me privately with your suggestions or concerns. You only want to talk trash in public, and I'm sick of it. :mad:
Barry

Barry, the only one crapping on this thread is you. We don’t have any concerns other than the concern that the event and the club last well in to the future. We really enjoy it. What’s wrong with posting opinions in public. And actually when I read what I’ve said….”To get more people from the West Coast you may have to be more middle America”…what the hell is wrong with that? And to suggest that areas compete to have the event near them…that’s a win for SDAC and for the industrious group that does that. Here’s an opinion….seems your sick of anyone who has an opinion or suggestion and wants to have some constructive discourse. Really Barry you’ve gone off the reservation here and now I’m forced to read the rest of this thread on my stinking vacation. Thanks.

James

[JamesL]

Newsletter by regular mail is the only way to reach all our members, and that is a slow process. The best I can tell, 1/4 to 1/3 of our members do not have email or any online presence.

There will never be a vote, so folks can stop speculating on how it should be carried out.

Barry
I say vote with your pocket book. You want the event in your area, give Barry some solid financial incentive to bring it so that registration fees do not have to carry so much of the cost.

[JamesL]

Indy would be great but there is no way we could afford the track rental. According to Barry it was over $3000 to rent the track this year. It was a nice track and surprisingly prepped very well (lots of VHT!) but no where near the size of O'Reily Raceway Park. It would cost us over $5000 to get the track and even with the record number of racers to offset the cost, it would still have to be over $120 each to race for the day. I know people would balk at that price. Even then we wouldn't cover the cost and loose money. We will never be able to pull of Indy again since there are no other near by 1/4 mile tracks unless we would get a partner. After SDAC-16, I wouldn't look for that to happen again any time soon either.


I don't want this to be construed as "stirring up crap" but someone should suggest that we plan to have our event with another club thereby taking advantage of economies of scale. I'm not going to do it. Sometimes when you’re on a tight budget you have to come back to some proven techniques. And I didn't say that either.

[JamesL]

No I run it like it is my business, which it is 100%. You own a business, do you want others telling you how to run it? If not, I feel the same way.


OK, this explains it all. When this discussion took place at the other site, it was not clear to me why SDAC was called a business and would be treated as such. I thought it was a car club similar to the Hill Country Car Club I organized several years back. Barry is right, I didn’t read the fine print related to membership/subscription. I am WAY out of line and so is anyone to tell another person how to run their business. I sincerely apologize Barry and wish you and SDAC, Inc. the best of luck.

James

[sdac guy]

OK, this explains it all. When this discussion took place at the other site, it was not clear to me why SDAC was called a business and would be treated as such. I thought it was a car club similar to the Hill Country Car Club I organized several years back. Barry is right, I didn’t read the fine print related to membership/subscription. I am WAY out of line and so is anyone to tell another person how to run their business. I sincerely apologize Barry and wish you and SDAC, Inc. the best of luck.

James I'll reply to this series of posts in inverse order. Thanks James, apology accepted. Read on, you will find I own up to a couple mistakes I've made here also. And I will also explain more about my point of view regarding your & Cindy's posts.

(actually on the articles of incorporation papers it is Shelby Dodge Auto Club, Inc. :D )

Barry

[sdac guy]

I don't want this to be construed as "stirring up crap" but someone should suggest that we plan to have our event with another club thereby taking advantage of economies of scale. I'm not going to do it. Sometimes when you’re on a tight budget you have to come back to some proven techniques. And I didn't say that either. The comment from me about stirring was completely in regards to the second time you suggested a business meeting at the convention.

Here is what you originally posted in your first post in the thread SDAC Thoughts. Think of it as another event at SDAC. An agenda might include SDAC planning, officer election, finance reporting, by-law amendments and general all around club business. I edited that out of the public thread post, and copied your entire post and thread name to the Members Only forum. I have no problems with discussing club business candidly in the members forum, but I do not care to do this in a public thread.

90% of the folks on this board are not SDAC members, and about 99% on td.com. For public consumption, I prefer to keep club business low profile, and only have comments on the positive aspects of our events, club, and chapters.

So I copied your post with the above comment to the members area, replied to it and waited for a comment from you in return. None came. But then in this thread you mentioned the business meeting again. Before I go on, I must note that the topics you suggested discussing above (at a business meeting) are those exact same topics that Cindy has hammered me with over and over in the past both on here and on td.com and only in public threads, never in a members only area. Every single time I have told her that I would prefer to keep such discussions in the members only area. And then the next time it is right out here in a public thread again.

A few times I have moved the discussion to the the members area, but this one got out of hand too quickly (and that was pretty much my fault). So when you brought up the business meeting at the convention here (for the second time total) I decided to respond a little stronger.

It was only AFTER I replied that I realized that while Cindy has access to the members only area, your login does not. And I mentioned to a couple of folks that I kinda felt bad about ripping on you when you couldn't see my reply there. But I was so ticked off about it all because the entire thing was exactly as Cindy has done to me in the past (many times), so I didn't edit my posting to correct my words.

Had all of this occurred in the members only forum, it would never have taken as much of a confrontational twist from me.

Barry

[sdac guy]

I say vote with your pocket book. You want the event in your area, give Barry some solid financial incentive to bring it so that registration fees do not have to carry so much of the cost. Well, I don't know if that would work. That would kind of eliminate areas that don't have the chapter presence, or direct member participation to carry it off. More to come on this ...

Whoa there now Barry, no need to blow a gasket over some conversation and suggestions. You are far too defensive here. I haven’t read the entire thread at this point and I [probably shouldn’t. Since when can’t a person make a few suggestions? I think the Pittsburgh guys did a great job. Personally, I would have liked to have had some road racing and auto-crossing but budget didn’t permit. My only point was that possibly with some Turbo Mopar ingenuity, a chapter or group of chapters could do some fund raising and put a financial package together to lobby SDAC to have the event in their area. Kinda of like what cities do to get the Olympics. I was not degrading anyone’s effort, simply trying to express an idea that helps SDAC fund a better event and motivates members to try to get the event in their area. Simple as that! I have no problem with suggestions or comments or discussion. I have a problem when someone gets an answer from me, ignores it and continues to hammer me on the same topics (like your wife frequently does).

Actually Billy & Co. really did an outstanding job. Den Viola started working on a site sort of mid to east PA or DE immediately after SDAC-16. But after a few months he came back to me and said they were having no luck getting answers or info on the items we discussed while in Topeka. It was about that time that Billy happened to post in a thread how the Pittsburgh area could be a good venue.

I told Billy that since we were fresh out of areas to look at, to gather some basic data for a proposal. It looked good to Craig & me so we gave Billy the go ahead. One of the biggest obstacles he had to overcome is that many folks local to him in his chapter, didn't believe him and he came back to me a couple times asking if it was for sure. :nod:

What the hell is that? Are you kidding me? We didn’t feel it was worth it? For the last several years, shutting a business down, traveling across the country, registrations fees, kick-off parties, give-aways, event sponsorship, paid participation in the events…since when did you start offering sponsorship levels or keeping score? Why would you want to politicize this? And, as the club president, is it wise to turn away sponsorship funding for an event that you claim struggles financially? First you also have taken my comment a little out of context. But in the spirit of trying to patch things up, I will admit to putting my 'spin' on that. I get so tired of the way Cindy twists things around and puts her spin on items, that I thought maybe it was time I did a little of that. Note, I was still pissed off at that moment.

I'm sorry for the comment, it was a tad over the top, even though I thought it made my point stronger.

In regards to the statement I made about the car dealer you replied:
Promoting an event takes more than a phone call. But I guess your point is that nobody wants to support it. If that’s the case so be it. I would argue that some people are better at promting, procuring sponsors and seeing that they follow through than others. This might be evidenced by a group of highly motivated Turbo Mopar enthusiasts putting a package together to lobby SDAC to come to their area. That winning group gets to grin because they don’t have to haul across the country. But I’m repeating myself again. It was a done deal with the car dealer. When the chapter guys there approached them for support (goody bag or door prize items) they asked if they could bring some cars to the show. And the guys that worked there asked if they could bring their classic rwd Mopes also. It was all fine and good to go. I have no idea why the didn't show up, and I really don't care. We had a good show and that is all that matters now.

Well you are entitled to your opinion. But I think the only thing this discussion accomplishes is that I am forced to say the same stuff again as I do every year after the event.And this why a meeting at SDAC is a good forum for face to face discussion. But its only a suggestion and I don’t see why anyone would have to get so defensive about it. If folks don't pay attention to what I write online (repeatedly every year), why should I believe they would believe or remember what I would say face to face?

Barry, the only one crapping on this thread is you. We don’t have any concerns other than the concern that the event and the club last well in to the future. We really enjoy it. What’s wrong with posting opinions in public. And actually when I read what I’ve said….”To get more people from the West Coast you may have to be more middle America”…what the hell is wrong with that? And as I replied, last year, Topeka, can't get much more middle America. Nobody came, well not enough. To consider that only about 1/3 the attendance of Cinci came to Topeka, less than half of those attending this year went to Topeka. I don't think middle America is viable at all. East of the Mississippi is where we have successful conventions.

And to suggest that areas compete to have the event near them…that’s a win for SDAC and for the industrious group that does that. Here's how unrealistic that is. Since Billy made a proposal for PA early this year, we have had NO other proposals submitted. I came up with a site, and Craig came up with a site. And we are weighing the benefits and liabilities attached to both sites at this time.

I'm not sitting here on a stack of proposals that folks have submitted and need some incentive to swing it one way or the other, or make one more favorable than the other. I wish that was the problem. Kevin Isenberg did sent me the info on the place he suggested earlier. It looks like it would be a great venue to me. So maybe we have a third place to look at for this year or next. But the drawback already is that it is an area where we have very few local members to do any legwork there for us.

Barry

[shay]

I don't really have the time to read though all the six pages of bicker back and forth. :)

Any location.. and I'm sure Ryan and I will be making our first trip to an SDAC event next year. Just my two cents.

[ShelbyMotorsports]

We went to the SAAC X does Vegas last year (Craig went, I couldn't make it) and even SAAC has trouble getting the turnout in the west. But the number of our cars/members there was very poor.


Well to be fair that is not completely true. SAAC has no problems with western convention attendance and are currently holding this years convention in UTAH as we speak.

Besides the 2007 Utah convention they recently held the 2005 convention in California and the 2002 convention was also in California. So three national conventions in the last 5 years shows western attendance is not a problem.

The SAAC Does Vegas event was started about 10 years ago when the Las Vegas track opened along with Shelby's Series One car production facility and was never intended to be anything close to a annual convention. It has always been a small event that concentrated mainly on track activities for the Ford owners. The Dodge crowd was invited last year because the event was taken over from SAAC by Shelby Automobiles to promote the current Shelby vehicles being manufacured there.

[BadAssPerformance]

I don't really have the time to read though all the six pages of bicker back and forth. :)

Any location.. and I'm sure Ryan and I will be making our first trip to an SDAC event next year. Just my two cents.

That's the spirit! Heck, you'll probably bring a Spirit too! :thumb:

[shay]

That's the spirit! Heck, you'll probably bring a Spirit too! :thumb:
LOL, if one of them happens to be running at the time.. :)

[BadAssPerformance]

LOL, if one of them happens to be running at the time.. :)

LOL.. story of my life. I can honestly say after this year not haviing a car that SDAC conventions kickass even without a car to bring! :thumb:

[GLHS592]

I'm not sitting here on a stack of proposals that folks have submitted and need some incentive to swing it one way or the other, or make one more favorable than the other. I wish that was the problem. Kevin Isenberg did sent me the info on the place he suggested earlier. It looks like it would be a great venue to me. So maybe we have a third place to look at for this year or next. But the drawback already is that it is an area where we have very few local members to do any legwork there for us.

Bowling Green isn't that far from me. I have relatives and my wife has relatives that live there. We could spend some time up there in order for me to do a little leg work.

[shay]

LOL.. story of my life. I can honestly say after this year not haviing a car that SDAC conventions kickass even without a car to bring! :thumb:
If all else fails, we can bring the SRT.

[sdac guy]

Well to be fair that is not completely true. SAAC has no problems with western convention attendance and are currently holding this years convention in UTAH as we speak.

Besides the 2007 Utah convention they recently held the 2005 convention in California and the 2002 convention was also in California. So three national conventions in the last 5 years shows western attendance is not a problem.

The SAAC Does Vegas event was started about 10 years ago when the Las Vegas track opened along with Shelby's Series One car production facility and was never intended to be anything close to a annual convention. It has always been a small event that concentrated mainly on track activities for the Ford owners. The Dodge crowd was invited last year because the event was taken over from SAAC by Shelby Automobiles to promote the current Shelby vehicles being manufacured there.

My misunderstanding then. I was going only by what Craig was told by SAAC folks that were in attendance.

Barry

[ShelbyMotorsports]

My misunderstanding then. I was going only by what Craig was told by SAAC folks that were in attendance.

Barry

I'm not doubting that the SAAC Does Vegas attendance has dropped from past years especially when the National SAAC convention has been held out west three times during the last five years.

As a SAAC member I know thats been the case for me. I've previously attended the Vegas events but haven't gone in the last couple of years because of so many SAAC conventions being held close by and because if I'm going to Vegas for a Shelby Dodge event its going to be The Mopars At The Strip event.

Here's a link to some pics from last years vegas event. May not be the largest vegas event but its not like it was a ghost town.

http://www.shelbyautos.com/gallery.asp?car=saac06day3

[Turbo224]

Maybe this is none of my business, but shouldn't you guys have taken this discussion to private messaging LONG ago? Most of this is just an argument, and I dont think it needs to be posted for everyone to read. If it has something to do with sdac 18 than by all means, post is, but if its just a dissagreement over policy between two people, maybe keep it private and cut and paste the stuff that is important into this thread. Just a freindly thought. Not accusing anyone of anything.

[20w/ashelby]

I sincerely apoligize for starting this thread. If you look at my first post it's kind of a shame this thread ended up where it is. Barry I'm sorry you have the attitude you do on this topic. You say this is the same thread that comes up every year. You're 100% correct.

Every year people comment on the past year's SDAC. Every year people offer helpful suggestions. Every year you shoot down every suggestion. Every year you state that SDAC is either breaking even or losing money. If this is truely a business maybe you should change your thought process a little. That's what I would do if my business was repeatedly losing money.

Now I'm not trying to make a personal attack at you. I'm sorry if it seems that way. I'm just trying to summarize the way myself and I think others take your statements.

Next time I'll start this thread in the lounge and maybe it will stay on topic.

[Frank]

Barry is very much about suggestions. I think you misunderstand him.

I think Barry's point is that there are a few people who, at inopportune times, complain about its location instead of providing input in a very reasonable manner. Instead of asking things like where is Barry coming from and being trusting of a trust worthy guy, offering up support and help to investigate new areas or options, etc, they decide to immediately do what you see above.... everytime, like clock work. It has been this way EVERY year since I first hopped onto these various forums 5 years ago! I know it irritates the piss out of me when I see these people harp on Barry over the way he runs things. He gives plenty of information. Believe it or not, Barry goes off of suggestion! I know myself and several others all suggested Western PA. Now I think he already had some ideas he brewed, but I like to feel special. ;) Guess where the majority of the member base is? Not west coast or even south... sorry everyone, but remember the following pictures? So for me, seeing these conversations all the time makes me want to gouge out my eyes and destroy other people's keyboards.

Frank

PS> That was not directed at you 20w/ashelby... its just me ranting about the situation in general and how stinky it is.


SDAC Member Base
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2254&d=1160649480
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2255&d=1160649480
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2256&d=1160649480

TM Member Base
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vbgooglemapme.php

[20w/ashelby]

I also want to chime in one more time. I agree with you Frank. I want to say that after reading my above post it came off a little more offensively than I intended it.

I decided before I comment on this anymore I should become an SDAC member. That is done now. As a member feel free to contact me barry. I would be interested in helping organize an event in columbus as there has been some talk about it.

[Frank]

I also want to chime in one more time. I agree with you Frank. I want to say that after reading my above post it came off a little more offensively than I intended it.

No sweat!

I decided before I comment on this anymore I should become an SDAC member. That is done now. [/QUOTE]

Awesome dude! Make sure you click on this now that you are a member!
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/profile.php?do=editusergroups


Frank

[20w/ashelby]

got it as soon as I joined

[sdac guy]

I sincerely apoligize for starting this thread. If you look at my first post it's kind of a shame this thread ended up where it is. Barry I'm sorry you have the attitude you do on this topic. You say this is the same thread that comes up every year. You're 100% correct.

Every year people comment on the past year's SDAC. Every year people offer helpful suggestions. Every year you shoot down every suggestion. Every year you state that SDAC is either breaking even or losing money. If this is truely a business maybe you should change your thought process a little. That's what I would do if my business was repeatedly losing money.

Now I'm not trying to make a personal attack at you. I'm sorry if it seems that way. I'm just trying to summarize the way myself and I think others take your statements.

Next time I'll start this thread in the lounge and maybe it will stay on topic.

I am not offended by your post at all. But let me explain a little. Yes, this thread appears every year. And every year I try my best to explain the situation. But only a few recall the conversations from the past, most just chime in, it is the way of internet forums.

One thing folks seem to remember is that I turn down a suggestion. I evaluate every suggestion to see if it is practical, workable, needed, and if it would benefit our membership. It doesn't necessarily need to have a positive indication for all those items, but certainly if it gets too many of them negative, then it is not something I will put into practice. It can then be suggested by 100 more people but that will not change the evaluation, so it will get turned down 100 more times.

Folks seem to home in on that aspect and it is fairly easy to do. I have implemented quite a number of suggestions from folks over the years. The most recent big suggestion was last year to team up with another club to save cost on our event (while providing our members with an opportunity to have drag racing, autocross, and road course). While good in theory, and seemingly positive on nearly all counts, the location was poor and we didn't get adequate turnout.

Nearly everyone, including myself, had a great time at SDAC-16, but after the event, a number of our members, some who attended it and some who didn't told me privately that they really liked our stand alone events, and didn't care for the dual event much. There were things that were part of the planning that were out of my control, and that were not to my liking (nor our members who attended). But giving up that control was part of the cost of joining in with another group. From the overall experience, it is unlikely we will repeat that 'suggestion'. So from experience, that one has gone from a yes, to a no.

It is our goal to at least break even on the convention. And we would like to see every event we hold to pay for itself. The drag racing this year did not do that. I feel most of the reason was because of the cost to rent the track was high, and that meant the fee we charged needed to be higher than ever. While we lost money on the drag racing, it was not enough to jeopardize the event in any way. So it is all good from my view.

SDAC is NOT losing money. When I was new to this, I listened to a lot of folks suggestions on what we should have for events at our conventions. And those events (road racing & autocross) put us in severe debt status as we only took in about half or less what it cost to rent the tracks. So we are now in the process of paying off that debt. With the exception of last year, every convention we have held since SDAC-14 has made a tidy sum of money and the debt has been reduced substantially.

If there is any threat to future convention events, it is the cost of insurance. Most drag strips now include liability insurance coverage in the track rental fee. But insurance cost has made road course and autocross impossible for us to hold by ourselves. And the insurance premiums continue to rise for the same amount of coverage.

I haven't priced coverage for road course or autocross since SDAC-14 but it was $2500 per day back then. That is for $2 million in liability coverage. Every additional $1 million in liability coverage was another $1000 in premium. Most road courses now require greater than $2 million coverage (usually from 3-5 mil). So $5 mil in coverage costs $6500 just in insurance for the day. And track rental is on top of that.

Blackhawk Farms near Chicago gets about $5000 for the basic rental. Add in corner workers and ambulance and it approaches $7000 real quick. And how many people do we get to sign up for the event. Since SDAC-10, we have never had even 25 people sign up. At SDAC-14 there was a road course event held by some Mini-Cooper folks that our guys joined in on. We had a dozen there. Last year at Topeka, we had 10 of our members drive the road course.

Barry

[DC Turismo]

After seeing that map it sure does surprise me that turnout at this year's event was not as high, if not higher like I expected, in comparison to SDAC-15. That is perfect illustration of evidence to show why the events are held where they are each year. Thanks Frank!

[fleckster]

I think one of the issues that always plays into the attendance is the "timing factor" as I like to call it. It's just the nature of our cars. We seem to break something just before the event and despite best efforts, the car isn't ready to make the trip. As a result, even people with in a hour don't come to the event. It's a shame really! Since many of these people haven't been to an SDAC Convention, they don't even realize that you can have a ton of fun and not even have your vehicle there! Just ask those who rented a vehicle to thrash on at the event this year! I know big time SDAC supporters and Forum members (who shall remain nameless) who haven't had they prize car available for several years yet still make the event despite the long distances because they know it's about the friends you have through the cars that make the event! In fact without a car to stress over by detailing it for the show, tuning or even repairing at the track, they can relax, help ot