Pretty, eh?

[8valves]

I had some custom 4 bolt mains made for our common blocks... I'd say they turned out amazing. Only two new bolt holes need to be drilled! Besides normal machining such as a line hone and such after new mains are installed nothing else is needed to run these! Pretty slick eh?

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/DSCF0039.JPG

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/DSCF0042.JPG

[cordes]

Very nice. You have been very busy indeed.

[Whorse]

Yeah I think you even changed your citizenship in the midst! Nicely done

[8valves]

Not to mention 40 Hr work weeks from 8-4pm mon-fri, and school from 6:30pm-11:30 pm mon-thur!

[cordes]

Not to mention 40 Hr work weeks from 8-4pm mon-fri, and school from 6:30pm-11:30 pm mon-thur!

Can you at least get some HW done while on the job?

[GLHNSLHT2]

how much? Can you get more made? :)

[8valves]

how much? Can you get more made? :)

Possibly. I would rather do it when a couple of people want some sets.

[moparfwdsleeper]

Get what it would cost to sell and are these for common or non common blocks(still a newbie, so I dont know if that would matter on the main caps).

BTW they do look great!

[moparzrule]

They are for commonblocks. How much?

[8valves]

If people are interested please PM me. They would be $425 plus shipping for the set of 3.

[moparzrule]

Hmm, fwd-p sells 4 bolt main caps for $350. Sorry, not interested.

[8valves]

Hmm, fwd-p sells 4 bolt main caps for $350. Sorry, not interested.

That's the answer I would expect from most people.

[GLHSKEN]

easy boyzzzz

[88_pacifica]

Now wait a sec... is this made from a different grade stock of metal?

[8valves]

easy boyzzzz

:p Oh I'll be good Ken. Just stating it so I don't get anymore similar responses.

[GLHSKEN]

:p Oh I'll be good Ken. Just stating it so I don't get anymore similar responses.


i know buddy!!

[8valves]

Now wait a sec... is this made from a different grade stock of metal?

? I have no idea what material any other caps anyone has ever made for these is/was used.

These are from a billet steel, either SAE 1045 or 4140. I don't know which, I will contact them to find out if someone is interested. They are then, obviously, black oxidized.

The cool thing is that they use entirely pre-existing holes in a common block, except for just two. Only two holes need to be drilled/tapped, the rest is bolt on and machine! Pretty neat I'd say.

[moparzrule]

Soooo, tell me why yours justify spending $75 more.... If you can't, and you already knew FWD's were 75 cheaper, than don't get pissed at me for pointing it out. FWD's are billet, not sure what grade but a reputable vendor like FWD wouldn't rip us off with inferior product. So once again, justify your price or stop the derogatory comments because mine WAS justified.

[cordes]

Soooo, tell me why yours justify spending $75 more.... If you can't, and you already knew FWD's were 75 cheaper, than don't get pissed at me for pointing it out. FWD's are billet, not sure what grade but a reputable vendor like FWD wouldn't rip us off with inferior product. So once again, justify your price or stop the derogatory comments because mine WAS justified.

I thought that you weren't interested?

[moparzrule]

Not interested in buying, ANYMORE! But when someone comes back at me with a comment like that I'm going to justify why I said what I said.

[mech1nxh]

These are from a billet steel, either SAE 1045 or 4140. I will contact them to find out if someone is interested.



I am, and please do contact them....thx!

[4 l-bodies]

Soooo, tell me why yours justify spending $75 more.... If you can't, and you already knew FWD's were 75 cheaper, than don't get pissed at me for pointing it out. FWD's are billet, not sure what grade but a reputable vendor like FWD wouldn't rip us off with inferior product. So once again, justify your price or stop the derogatory comments because mine WAS justified.
Matt,
Who says Aaron or anyone HAS TO BE price competitive or needs to justify any pricing to you or anyone? Too many variables come into play to play that card. Material, shop labor, quality (tolerances), quantity of batch, shipping costs, turn around time, profit margin, etc. He set a price point. That's entirely his prerogative. It's up to the consumer to decide if they want to buy at his said price point, or shop elsewhere. IMO, I think the comment Aaron made was not derogatory at all.

BTW- I think I saw a ported exhaust manifold sell on eBay recently for less than you sell your ported manifolds for. How dare they undercut you! How do you justify? The manifolds I port, I sell for more money than yours. How do I justify? Simple, I don't. I sell them for what I need to get for them.

A product is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Sometimes you are also comparing apples and oranges too, even when comparing seemingly identical apples. Two examples... ported exhaust manifolds or 4 bolt main caps. Get my drift?
Todd

[moparzrule]

Not sure what you want me to say, I'm sorry for looking out for my fellow turbo mopar consumers? To me it looks like he knew FWD was that much cheaper, but I spoiled his scheme to try to sell to somebody that didn't know. It's the right of a consumer to know the competition. Everybody knows about the competition of ported manifolds and prices because it's a much more common item.
I justify my price of the manifolds knowing that mine are better for the money than any manifold out there, flowbench proven.

[Ondonti]

Do the FWD pieces require only 2 new holes?
That is something to consider.
cost to install after buying something is often ignored in peoples budgets.

Anyways it doesnt seem this thread is being very objective.

[moparzrule]

How wouldn't they? If 8valves main caps utilize factory holes, it would be almost impossible and/or very stupid to make something that wouldn't.

This thread would be more objective if we could find out more about FWD's main caps, but not much is listed on the site about them. We need someone that has some to speak up.

[GLHSKEN]

Last time... knock it off.

I can assure you pieces Aaron produces will be top notch. Even the 2 primary venders for the community have different prices for the same items...

Aaron was looking to deceive NO ONE... He knows flat out there is a VERY small percentage of the TM population that would spend money on these. Most won't spend money to put in forged pistons...

It's the instant picking apart of anything new that discourages people from becoming suppliers or bringing new ideas or parts to the community.

I really do not want to have to clean up this thread.

[badandy]

Not interested in buying, ANYMORE! But when someone comes back at me with a comment like that I'm going to justify why I said what I said.

Dude? When you go shopping in the mall do you say out loud "that's too expensive, why would I buy it here when it's X amount of dollars at Wal-Mart?"
If it's too expensive in your opinion and you can get a better deal elsewhere than leave it at that...no need to be rude.

Even if it's higher priced than a current vendor I say bravo! With what little we have to choose from in regards to aftermarket products for our cars...I would never sight someone for trying to offer us quality products.

[GLHSKEN]

Please, No more posts off topic.

[8valves]

I will try to bring this back in to the correct light here if you will. I in no way shape or form intended this thread as a "check this out, I'm going to sell these to a bunch of people!"

I posted, in the same day, pictures of some intake manifolds I'd been working on, my header, and these main caps. Reason being that I have had next to NO time to ever show people what's going on, and I know there are a few people out there who would get a kick out of seeing any of the three.

Also of mention is that not in any of the threads am I trying to be a vendor of some sort. Is it feasible that if a low quantity of people wanted some of any of those products that I could produce them in my spare time for them? Posissibly, that's something that I can discuss with them in PM.

Regardless of all of this, I had previous dealings with Lonewolf that I wasn't exactly pleased with the outcome, so I just decided to go ahead and track down the best possible company to produce these.

I will justify the cost only so the rest of people know what I was dealing with. I am not a machinist! I couldn't tell them what dimensions everything had to be or anything else that went into these. I told them what I needed them to accomplish and they had to engineer them to do so. The cost comes from giving them a block and a timeframe and requirements, and them coming back to me with the best possible solution and quality product they could.

Thanks for the compliments everyone! It truly is a shame that they aren't seen once the pan is bolted on. I think that was more of a reason than anything to put them up, they're damn good looking! ;)

[t3rse]

it'd be sweet if it could be set up in a girdle similar to the 2.4...good looking pieces, and don't forget he started this thread with zero intention of trying to sell these...

[Frank]

How long did it take you to machine those? They look intense to machine.

[Directconnection]

If 8valves main caps utilize factory holes, it would be almost impossible and/or very stupid to make something that wouldn't.


Pro-gram enginerring doesn't utilize factoy existing bolt hole for their 4-bolt splayed caps in the SBC engines. If they did, the outer splayed bolts would be 1/4-20 vs 7/16"

Aaron had caps made for HIS engine and a few people showed interest for him to make more, in which he gave them a price. That's all it was. No stepping on FWD's toes. Maybe they are much better than FWD? Maybe not?

This is much less of an effect than you selling ported exhaust manifolds and taking away bussiness from FWD, FM and TU.

As far as 4-bolt main caps are concerned..... you simply do NOT bolt them on to a block and line bore/line hone after wards. I know, because that's what i am doing for a living now. For starters... the thrust cap. That thrust surface need to remain SQUARE to the registers and parrallel on both sides to each other. It must also be flush to the thrust surface in the block and try like hell to be no more than +/-.001" as this will mess up your thrust clearance. The thrust surface must be cut to the size of your block's thrust while keeping it totaly square and perpendicular to the blocks register otherwise, the cap will technically have a lean to it and you will lose alot more thrust (and bearing thrust wear will not be spread out evenly, but more in an iosolated section of the bearing... ie: wear faster there)

2ndly.. the step for the outer bolts.... should be what they call the "air gap" and in a SBC I did last week, it needs to be set at .0015 to .0020" The purpose of this airgap basically, is to make sure that the middle part of the cap at the register bolts down securely like it should BEFORE any part of the outer section touches. You don't want the outer section of the cap touching the block 1st as the torque applied to the inner bolts won't pull the cap down into the register all the way (get hung up) or it will torque down, but not use all of the torque applied to it as the outers touched 1st.

Setting this airgap is a mother f$%%^^&^er! The register to pan rail usually is good, but .001 to sometimes even .003" means you have to grind the cap's bottom with a shim on the cap grinder to get the airgaps even. The one I did last week came at .015 and .014" airgap as it is designed for you to set it. The cap actually laid to one side non -perpendicular to the registers by .001" measured at the airgap. The cap is like 1" wide, so the cap was laying to the side so to speak by a few thousandths that i had to correct by shimming and making square so when torqued down, the airgap was square. Fortuneately, a SBC has the thrusts on the #5 so I didn't need to frig with that at the same time unlike a pontiac 455. So, basically, on the airgaps, because of tolerances on the block and the cap, the cap doesn't sit dead nuts. You have to play with shims when grinding it to get it perfect. When I was done, I could slide a .0015" feeler through all airgaps on all 3 middle caps, and a .0025 wouldn't go except in one spot where I said to hell with it. ALOT of dicking around.

So now, here we are with 2.2/2.5 4-bolt mains. I just wonder if the machine shop that installs them actually gives a rat's arse and does the installation correctly. I am sure the 2.2/2.5 register to pan rails all measure a bit different and that could result in the outeredges touching 1st which would not be good. (nevermind the thrust area not being square or parrallel, etc.


Phew!

[Directconnection]

How long did it take you to machine those? They look intense to machine.



Believe it or not, making them based off a print would be very straightforward.

But, not knowing the in's and out's of installing them into a block like I just posted about... the design and knowledge makes it sorta hard I guess.

[turbovanman²]

Wow, nice job Aaron. If I wasn't tapped out, I would love a set to make my block a rock, :thumb:

[Frank]

Believe it or not, making them based off a print would be very straightforward.

But, not knowing the in's and out's of installing them into a block like I just posted about... the design and knowledge makes it sorta hard I guess.


No I mean the actual machining... going thru bits, having to be patient, etc. That material is tough!

[Directconnection]

No I mean the actual machining... going thru bits, having to be patient, etc. That material is tough!

If speeds and feeds are set right, you can machine well over an entire shift's worth of parts without changing tools. But, they use multiple tools for roughing and finishing.

[8valves]

Awesome info Steve!

[Directconnection]

Thanks... just passing on what I can to help others whether it is from FM, FWD or these caps.

I have installed a few sets of pro-gram caps which are considered the cat's meow, and I've also done a few sets on 455 Pontiacs that were made from another source. Time consuming to do it right, which is what the manufacturer calls for. Very easy to do it cheap and easy. We had a block that came in that another shop who did the cap install never set the airgaps. Just ground them down and figured it was good. Engine had a main bearing failure. If those 2 inner bolts don't seat that cap in it's register like it was a 2bolt cap, and gets hung up, you will not get the proper clearances as the cap will walk I am sure.

[Ondonti]

nice to know I dont need to worry about main caps EVER :P
With commonblocks who is a candidate for needing them?
My engines main bearing problems are due to crank flex in the middle because of V design having less main bearing area and poor crank design.

Whats going on with the inline 4 that it needs better main caps?

[GLHS0658]

Aaron, Did you have these installed yet?
If so, did the machine shop have to do any extra work installing them?
What hardware did you use?
If ARP then what part number?

As Steve pointed out there is more to installing these.

And it sometimes proves to be difficult to find a shop that knows how to install them in the first place.
Steve, I had a Chevy 400 block with splayed caps installed that the step or air gap was on the inside bolt holes. I purchased the block this way and had to take it to my local shop (where I used to work) to have it fixed.

Mike

[Directconnection]

Steve, I had a Chevy 400 block with splayed caps installed that the step or air gap was on the inside bolt holes. I purchased the block this way and had to take it to my local shop (where I used to work) to have it fixed.

Mike


That would suck.

[8valves]

Aaron, Did you have these installed yet?
If so, did the machine shop have to do any extra work installing them?
What hardware did you use?
If ARP then what part number?

As Steve pointed out there is more to installing these.

And it sometimes proves to be difficult to find a shop that knows how to install them in the first place.
Steve, I had a Chevy 400 block with splayed caps installed that the step or air gap was on the inside bolt holes. I purchased the block this way and had to take it to my local shop (where I used to work) to have it fixed.

Mike

The block should be getting machined and ready to be built within the next week or so. I'll let people know what was needed to be done.

Thanks for the interest!

[8valves]

Just to let everyone in on it...

I had Pro-Gram Engineering (www.pro-gram.com) do these main caps for me. They are the best in the business, so that's why I had them do mine.

For those that were interested in material: they are made from SAE 1045. You can find the overal metal specifications on their website. An important and revealing fact is that it's tensile strength is 90,000 psi. Cast iron, such as our blocks, has a tensile strength of 30,000 psi. That's three times the strength of the stock block then!

As far as extra machining. They are cut small in the journal, so a full main bore as well as hone will be needed.

Also, there is no air gap adjustments needed. According to Pro-Gram the air gap is only critical on their splayed caps. On their stepped, flat caps, once the center studs/bolts are torqued it should sit flush as designed.

Although it wasn't my intent, if you would like a set you can PM me. Hope that answered everyone's questions!

[BadFastGTC]

The pictures do not do these pieces justice at all. These things are killer Aaron. Thank you for your efforts in getting them handled for us.

Steve M.


Just to let everyone in on it...

I had Pro-Gram Engineering (www.pro-gram.com) do these main caps for me. They are the best in the business, so that's why I had them do mine.

For those that were interested in material: they are made from SAE 1045. You can find the overal metal specifications on their website. An important and revealing fact is that it's tensile strength is 90,000 psi. Cast iron, such as our blocks, has a tensile strength of 30,000 psi. That's three times the strength of the stock block then!

As far as extra machining. They are cut small in the journal, so a full main bore as well as hone will be needed.

Also, there is no air gap adjustments needed. According to Pro-Gram the air gap is only critical on their splayed caps. On their stepped, flat caps, once the center studs/bolts are torqued it should sit flush as designed.

Although it wasn't my intent, if you would like a set you can PM me. Hope that answered everyone's questions!

[8valves]

The pictures do not do these pieces justice at all. These things are killer Aaron. Thank you for your efforts in getting them handled for us.

Steve M.

I'm glad you're happy sir, even after my shipping fiasco! Now just give me a call back! Ha!

Did you like those springs too? Yeow!

[8valves]

As of earlier today I sent a payment to Frank to be a basic vendor so I can openly supply these to people. If you would like a set feel free to PM me and I will start a list. As soon as I have enough people interested and payments I will get on the horn and have them made.

I will get back to this on final cost. I don't know if it has gone down at all due to the engineering portion being done now. Thanks!!

[GLHS0658]

Kewl :thumb:

[8valves]

Kewl :thumb:


Go check out the thread in my signature... just two more people need to pony up and then we'll be in business!