OMNI test-n-tune....I NEED TRACTION!

[Reeves]

1st Pass
R/T .340
60 2.042
330 5.753
1/8 8.427
mph 92.78
1000 10.688
1/4 12.539
mph 122.95

Notes: Too much fuel, not enough boost....real bad traction problems. Turned up boost

2nd Pass
1st Pass
R/T .153
60 2.214
330 5.961
1/8 8.646
mph 92.59
1000 10.884
1/4 12.695
mph 125.76

Notes: Too much fuel too soon in boost....really really bad traction problems. Had fuel come in later at higher boost level.

3rd Pass
R/T .407
60 2.053
330 5.428
1/8 7.975
mph 97.84
1000 10.096
1/4 11.844
mph 129.49

Notes: Real bad traction problems. Advanced cam 3 degrees (degrees on cam sprocket).

4th Pass
R/T .191
60 1.948
330 5.499
1/8 8.302
mph 89.36
1000 10.563
1/4 12.380
mph 125.38

Notes: Real bad traction problems. Almost ran into the wall when the slicks broke loose in 4th gear. Changed underwear and put it back on the trailer.

Not a good day! Don't make fun of my R/T's, I left when I thought I was ready.

Anybody got ideas for traction?

[BadAssPerformance]

Those R/T's aren't bad at all for test-n-tune!

Wow, why no traction? what changed from last year?

[turbovanman²]

Bigger slicks? a traction bar at the back thats preloaded so the front end doesn't lift? chains or ? to stop the front end from lifting? do you have an LSD?

[contraption22]

Try retarding the cam. The boost will come on softer and shift the power upwards.

[Reeves]

Nothing has changed chassis wise. I was running 10 psi in the slicks (MH's 25x8.7x13) and Ken seems to think I was running 7.5 psi last year. That was too many beers ago for me to remember....but I will try next time I go out running less psi.

I don't really want to run a wheelie bar. Kind of hard running around on the street with them and I like to keep my car street looking when it's at the track too.

I have considered strapping the front end down for the past two years and never have done it. Well, I think it's time!

It sucks being all over the track in 4th gear!

[Reeves]

Try retarding the cam. The boost will come on softer and shift the power upwards.
It's the upwards I'm having the problem with!

[Turbodave]

James if your having traction issues in 4th gear maybe some aerodynamics modifications would help? Something like a deeper airdam to keep the airflow going over and around the car instead of under it maybe? Just a thought, I know that car sits up pretty high and is getting a lot of wind underneath it.

[show-off]

Nothing has changed chassis wise. I was running 10 psi in the slicks (MH's 25x8.7x13) and Ken seems to think I was running 7.5 psi last year. That was too many beers ago for me to remember....but I will try next time I go out running less psi.

I don't really want to run a wheelie bar. Kind of hard running around on the street with them and I like to keep my car street looking when it's at the track too.

I have considered strapping the front end down for the past two years and never have done it. Well, I think it's time!

It sucks being all over the track in 4th gear!

Chain that baby down!

[contraption22]

Do you have Konis on the car? Setting them to full stiff in the front might limit front end lift.

How about alignment? A little bit of negative camber might help keep more rubber on the pavement under acceleration.

[devlish]

Do you have Konis on the car? Setting them to full stiff in the front might limit front end lift.

How about alignment? A little bit of negative camber might help keep more rubber on the pavement under acceleration.

kinda what i was thinking... but wouldn't it be full stiff in the BACK to keep the rear from squatting. also, i've heard having it aligned while someone gently lifts the front end (to simulate the front end coming up under acceleration) so that the tires are FLAT on the ground, even though the front end is lifted up slightly.

[Reeves]

Yeah, I've done the alignment thing. I think it's pretty good. I may mess with the camber myself with the front end lifted after strapping.

I only have KONI's on the rear. I *think* they are set to full soft. Aren't they only REBOUND adjustable?

Do you think Koni's on the front would help? Coilovers?

I already have the Koni's in the rear with MP rally springs and 4 rubber springs spacers per side. It still SQUATS bad!

I know R/T has had success with chains on the front a-arms to prevent lifting. Anyone used straps or seat belt material? I think it would be a little more forgiving. Pictures?

[devlish]

go to AutoZone and get the cheapy spring spacers, turn them around, and BOLT two of the coils together to bring the front end down. just a thought.
i think they are about $15 for a set (both front springs). and/or get a set for the rear and use them properly to seperate two coils and raise the back end.

just another idea for the $30 range

[Reeves]

Can't lower the front. Big slicks won't allow it.

[8valves]

What did you change power wise to the car this year? Where is your boost at once you're fully loaded?

[Reeves]

I see Cindy has front coilover Koni's for sale with whatever spring rate you want. If I were to purchase these, what spring rate would I want for the best traction possible at the track. I don't care about the street ride, I'll handle it fine.

[turbovanman²]

I see Cindy has front coilover Koni's for sale with whatever spring rate you want. If I were to purchase these, what spring rate would I want for the best traction possible at the track. I don't care about the street ride, I'll handle it fine.

You will want the back as hard as possible to limit squat and the front, unsure.

[show-off]

It is a heavier weight in the rear that will help on the springs. I can get you a pic of the mustang we chained down...pretty simple stuff though.

I did notice a big difference w/ Koni's set hard in the fron w/ the Eibach Springs Cindy sells, but I was going to chain mine too.

[R/T]

No matter how stiff the rear, a car as violent as James' will lift the front.

Stiffer rear = higher piviot point for the lift.

We need to defeat the psysics of the front coming up, not the back going down.

The answer is to keep the front from ever coming up - either stiff coilovers set on hard rebound, or straps / chains, such as the AGTEC system... :p

( Anti Gravity Traction Enhancing Chains )

[GLHSKEN]

WOW... Huge top end pull.. 92.5- 125.7... 33mph... All were at least 30... Nice job James...

[turbovanman²]

No matter how stiff the rear, a car as violent as James' will lift the front.

Stiffer rear = higher piviot point for the lift.

We need to defeat the psysics of the front coming up, not the back going down.

The answer is to keep the front from ever coming up - either stiff coilovers set on hard rebound, or straps / chains, such as the AGTEC system... :p

( Anti Gravity Traction Enhancing Chains )

It will still help, just think of the center as a pivot point, if the front end lifts, the back end squats, if you stiffen the rear, then the front won't lift as bad or as much. Thats why they put the traction bars on to add preload, so the front end won't lift.

I set my rear shocks stiff when drag racing, it really helps my 60 ft times, ;)

I would think seat belt material would be fine in the front, but maybe double/triple it for strength.

[Reeves]

My understanding is wheelie bars add wheelbase (length) to the entire vehicle when they are down.

You can't preload the wheelie bars....you have to start your race with them up off the ground.

Any idea on spring rate I'd want? Super light or super stiff or stock for the front?

[turbovanman²]

My understanding is wheelie bars add wheelbase (length) to the entire vehicle when they are down.

You can't preload the wheelie bars....you have to start your race with them up off the ground.

Any idea on spring rate I'd want? Super light or super stiff or stock for the front?

That could be part of it, never really looked into them but when watching the FWD class run them, they appear to be touching the ground???????

YOu could make them so you can unbolt them and bolt them up in secs, :lol:

[mcsvt]

Yeah in the FWD races, they are touching the ground and are preloaded.

I'd be interested to see how well just the straps help though. Also in the driveability down the track at speed.

[BadAssPerformance]

Nothing has changed chassis wise.

So what else did you change then? ;)

[Reeves]

OK, I have front Koni's and coilover setup and 400 lb springs coming from Cindy.

I have a Chevy S-10 airdam here that I was going to put on last year and never got around to it. I'm gonna try to get around to it now.

My idea on the front straps is to change out the sway bar bolts out on the a-arm to 10 mm (vs. 8 mm currently), then make a bracket that bolts on the top side of the A-arm. I will be ditching the sway bar at the same time and seeing how it runs without it. The bracket will give me an attachment point for the straps. For the other end of the strap it'll be somewhere up in the strut tower I'm assuming. This is kind of like the AGTEC only with straps instead of chains and probably not pre-loaded (an inch or so of slack).

If I was to get a coil over setup for my rear Koni's, what spring rate would be recommended?

BTW, don't forget this is a 5-SPD car.

Thanks for all the help guys!

[8valves]

The thing I don't like about strapping a FWD car is that when you hit the car as hard as your 5 spd high torque combo does the front will lift violently enough that it will reduce weight on the control arms, reversing what you're trying to accomplish.

No real experience with this, but that's all I see happening in my mind.

[Ondonti]

are there any writeups on this chaining technique?

[GLHNSLHT2]

+1 on the air getting under the car. Get the S10 airdam on there, make sure you have the splash shields in place, and the 2nd shields that go over the axle and steering rack too. I'd think about some deeper side skirts as well. Make sure you have a Non-GLH hood on the car as well. Is there any Fwd Rake to the car? Any pics James? Maybe sitting and launching? Last pic I saw of your car looked like it was bending the lower rad support in the middle.

[GLHSKEN]

I would not want to run that car at 130 without the front sway. Besides, That's steel the has to BEND UP... It should be helping somewhat.

[turbovanman²]

They remove the bar on RWD to AID in rear weight transfer, this is the opposite of want you want.

[BadFastGTC]

OK, I have front Koni's and coilover setup and 400 lb springs coming from Cindy.

I have a Chevy S-10 airdam here that I was going to put on last year and never got around to it. I'm gonna try to get around to it now.

My idea on the front straps is to change out the sway bar bolts out on the a-arm to 10 mm (vs. 8 mm currently), then make a bracket that bolts on the top side of the A-arm. I will be ditching the sway bar at the same time and seeing how it runs without it. The bracket will give me an attachment point for the straps. For the other end of the strap it'll be somewhere up in the strut tower I'm assuming. This is kind of like the AGTEC only with straps instead of chains and probably not pre-loaded (an inch or so of slack).

If I was to get a coil over setup for my rear Koni's, what spring rate would be recommended?

BTW, don't forget this is a 5-SPD car.

Thanks for all the help guys!

James,

I would try 450LB. springs in the back of the car. I think you'd be best served by trying to keep that short wheel base unit of yours as flat as possible. What I mean is to keep th effects of weight transfer to a minimum. You may be able to lose the front sway bar with the heavier rate springs. If not, see if you can locate one of the hollow ones off of the older K-cars.

Move the cam back to where it was! Wait and run at a track where the prep is a little better. The MPH gain you have is tremendous! So how'd it feel other than "squishy" in the seat? Heh-heh......

Steve M.

[BadAssPerformance]

I would not want to run that car at 130 without the front sway. Besides, That's steel the has to BEND UP... It should be helping somewhat.

130mph on the track maybe... on the street? no way.

[ohiorob]

I see Cindy has front coilover Koni's for sale with whatever spring rate you want. If I were to purchase these, what spring rate would I want for the best traction possible at the track. I don't care about the street ride, I'll handle it fine.

I ordered the Koni's with 450 springs from Cindy, should have them anyday now. will see if it makes a differents.

[8valves]

The thing I don't like about strapping a FWD car is that when you hit the car as hard as your 5 spd high torque combo does the front will lift violently enough that it will reduce weight on the control arms, reversing what you're trying to accomplish.

No real experience with this, but that's all I see happening in my mind.


Did nobody take note of this? I really think there is a problem with that method. It may have worked for the local Honda guys down by you but they're not hitting their powerband as hard as you are.

[cordes]

Did nobody take note of this? I really think there is a problem with that method. It may have worked for the local Honda guys down by you but they're not hitting their powerband as hard as you are.

Perhaps the seatbelt material along with the inch or so of slack that he plans on leaving in it will help to dissipate some of the force you are concerned with? I agree with you, and would be concerned about that too.

[shadow88]

Did nobody take note of this? I really think there is a problem with that method. It may have worked for the local Honda guys down by you but they're not hitting their powerband as hard as you are.

I understand what you're getting at and I'd be a little concerned as well. But, like you, I also have no personal input regarding chaining or strapping a car down.

I'd start at basics. Are yo sure it's the tires spinning? ie video and the white chalk stripe? Not clutch slip?
If so, but it wasn't an issue before, maybe those slicks or launch rpm or track prep had changed.
You're clearly a more experienced drag racer than I am and have a WAY faster car, but I'm surprised to hear you jumping to conclusions because the 60 foots just aren't there.

[cordes]

he said that the car was pulling toward the wall in 4th due to the slicks breaking loose. I don't think we are trying to solely perfect the 60' times.

[turbovanman²]

I understand what you're getting at and I'd be a little concerned as well. But, like you, I also have no personal input regarding chaining or strapping a car down.

I'd start at basics. Are yo sure it's the tires spinning? ie video and the white chalk stripe? Not clutch slip?
If so, but it wasn't an issue before, maybe those slicks or launch rpm or track prep had changed.
You're clearly a more experienced drag racer than I am and have a WAY faster car, but I'm surprised to hear you jumping to conclusions because the 60 foots just aren't there.

He is making more power this year, he's running more MPH and going slower. He can't put it down, :(

[shadow88]

He is making more power this year, he's running more MPH and going slower. He can't put it down, :(

Thanks. Didn't know the power went up.

[turbovanman²]

Thanks. Didn't know the power went up.


No problem, :thumb:

I don't see an issue with the seatbelt thing, how is he pulling up the control arms when he's not hooked up to the ends, he's just using the pivot points with won't affect anything?

[cordes]

No problem, :thumb:

I don't see an issue with the seatbelt thing, how is he pulling up the control arms when he's not hooked up to the ends, he's just using the pivot points with won't affect anything?

My theory is that when the body and strut (down to the point where the strap is attached) are moving upward in a violent fashion, and are then stopped by the strap which is attached to the control arm, the strap could then have the force to pull up on the A-arm.

[turbovanman²]

My theory is that when the body and strut (down to the point where the strap is attached) are moving upward in a violent fashion, and are then stopped by the strap which is attached to the control arm, the strap could then have the force to pull up on the A-arm.

BUT the control is mounted to the K-member and he's not mounting it to the control arm, just the bolts!

[cordes]

BUT the control is mounted to the K-member and he's not mounting it to the control arm, just the bolts!

So he is not attaching it to the A-arm, but to bolts that are attached to the A-arm. Are we splitting hairs here or is it just me?

[R/T]

It may have worked for the local Honda guys down by you but they're not hitting their powerband as hard as you are.

They were going *faster* than James, hitting the powerband just fine.... :p

[8valves]

They were going *faster* than James, hitting the powerband just fine.... :p


With all do respect, have you ridden in a 450+ WHP Honda? That's what it will take to out MPH Reeve's, and they have TOTALLY different powerband style than a TD, especially a 2.5 car. They come in gradual and make peak torque at very high rpms, with a steady climb up to that point. Not a brick wall of torque like a 2.5 turbo car. It's way more on/off if you will.

From what Simon was saying, if he's going to the K frame mounting bolt then that makes more sense, but the effect will still lighten to load on that front end. It's just physics, it doesn't matter where you lift on the front end, a force acting on it WILL lighten the front end if you could watch it on corner weights. It might only be for a split second, but it will be there and it could be enough to unsettle a high TQ car.

Ride height could be a great way to start to get the car planted, get the rear as low as possible to put more of the chassis weight onto the front end to start with.

[R/T]

My theory is that when the body and strut (down to the point where the strap is attached) are moving upward in a violent fashion, and are then stopped by the strap which is attached to the control arm, the strap could then have the force to pull up on the A-arm.


This is why the strap / chain is preloaded, no slack - to keep from a violent jerk - just a smooth transition.

[cordes]

With all do respect, have you ridden in a 450+ WHP Honda? That's what it will take to out MPH Reeve's, and they have TOTALLY different powerband style than a TD, especially a 2.5 car. They come in gradual and make peak torque at very high rpms, with a steady climb up to that point. Not a brick wall of torque like a 2.5 turbo car. It's way more on/off if you will.

From what Simon was saying, if he's going to the K frame mounting bolt then that makes more sense, but the effect will still lighten to load on that front end. It's just physics, it doesn't matter where you lift on the front end, a force acting on it WILL lighten the front end if you could watch it on corner weights. It might only be for a split second, but it will be there and it could be enough to unsettle a high TQ car.

Ride height could be a great way to start to get the car planted, get the rear as low as possible to put more of the chassis weight onto the front end to start with.

Ok, I see what Simon was saying now, he will be bolting it to the bolt which attaches the A-arm to the K frame. Aaron, I would agree with your assessment of how that would work much better than being hooked up to the actual A-arm.

Forgive my ignorance, but how does dropping the rear of the car put more weight on the front? is that when it is just sitting still, or whilst in motion? My mind has a hard time comprehending that at this time.

[R/T]

With all do respect, have you ridden in a 450+ WHP Honda? That's what it will take to out MPH Reeve's, and they have TOTALLY different powerband style than a TD, especially a 2.5 car. They come in gradual and make peak torque at very high rpms, with a steady climb up to that point. Not a brick wall of torque like a 2.5 turbo car. It's way more on/off if you will.

.

FWIW:

I was there that day with James, when the Hon-Duhs were going faster - 10.80 or so at the time. They were out ETing and MPHing the Omni that day. We talked at length with their "crew chief " the guy had a 7 second Mustang as his own drag car. He was the one who showed us the strap setup on the cars, and suggested we tie down the Omni because the front was lifting so much.

And from what James says with the new cam / head the car is'nt quite so torquey as it was, but now hits HARD up top - kinda like a Honduh - thus the 4th gear traction issues.

[Turbodave]

Ok, I see what Simon was saying now, he will be bolting it to the bolt which attaches the A-arm to the K frame. Aaron, I would agree with your assessment of how that would work much better than being hooked up to the actual A-arm.

What James described is a strap that attaches from the A-arm (where the sway bar bolts up), to a bracket or something mounted inside the strut tower area. Since the bolt that attaches the A-arm to the K-frame doesn't move it would be pointless to connect the bottom of the strap to that.

The whole idea is to reduce the weight transfer from the front to the rear of the car. If the strap is taught it will keep the car from rocking back as hard and hopefully let the car turn that energy into propulsion. I'm not sure how well it work with some slack in it, that gives the car a chance to develop a little backward rocking momentum which might result in some wheelspin once the strap catches (more of a shock to the front end).

The strap kind of elimates the front struts' impact on the traction so I don't know how useful it would be with Koni's on the car.

The front Koni's all by themselves should help since the adjustable rebound set to full firm makes the the strut slower to decompress, and that's the action that happens on launch and when you shift. I would guess that those alone would be a decent improvement.

[contraption22]

James, I saw the pics of your car from SDAC 16... damn that thing squats!
I have the Ground Control coilover conversion on GLHS Konis set to full soft on the back of my car with 450lb springs. No more squat!
Its a damn shame... a couple months ago I was looking at getting the GC conversion for the front as well, but the douchebag I talked to at GC said he would'nt sell me a partial set. We could have split it.

I almost considered Cindy's setup.. but couldn't justify the expense.

I ended up going with EBAY coilovers for the front. Working suprisingly well so far.

As far as the alignment... be careful if you play with the camber... you cannot change the camber on our cars without changing the toe... hard lesson i learned.

[contraption22]

No matter how stiff the rear, a car as violent as James' will lift the front.

Stiffer rear = higher piviot point for the lift.

We need to defeat the psysics of the front coming up, not the back going down.

The answer is to keep the front from ever coming up - either stiff coilovers set on hard rebound, or straps / chains, such as the AGTEC system... :p

( Anti Gravity Traction Enhancing Chains )


I'm not sold on that... I think I cut better 60 fts than James, mine certainly doesn't lift the nose like his does. I think limiting the front will help, but he also has to keep minimize weight transfer.

Lower the center of gravity (lower the car as much as possible). Keep the rear stiff, the front loose.

[GLHNSLHT2]

spinning in 4th is an Aero issue! By that gear the front isn't coming up from G-load much. It's the huge force of air going under the car at 100+MPH trying to lift the box off the ground line an airplane!

[GLHSKEN]

But it's the shift that starts it spinning.... I worry about a loose strap rather than pre-loaded. When the slack is taken up, That's going to be one helluva tug.... I can see metal bending and tearing... Like an impact hammer

[contraption22]

I guess I could see that Ken... but I think you can get the same effect as limiting straps with the right spring/strut combo. On the front, use a strut with a very stiff rebound (like a Koni set full stiff), and a very light spring (like a base Lbody spring) and the strut will limit the travel of the front end.

[GLHSKEN]

why not both??

[contraption22]

why not both??

Don't see why not! I'm wondering about attaching points myself. I figure you can attatch it to one of the strut-to-knuckle thru-bolts on the lower end.

[glhs875]

In my messed up mind I'm seeing the front lift more as the rear is stiffened up. The actual pivot point happens sooner with the rear compression (suspension travel) made less. With a fairly soft setup in the rear and alot of stored up energy (more coils on springs) and with having the rear sitting naturally higher than the front and with the rear having a good bit of suspension travel, there will be more weight on the front for the launch, and then by the rear squatting which will be lowering the center of gravity as it does, it will also soak up some of the shock from the shifts and torque hit. On the front, I would go with stiffer springs and less stored up energy (less coils on springs) and maybe with the front springs secured to the struts and strut mounts in some way so they will possibly work in a dual action manner by having some negative pressure against the front while lifting trying to pull the front back down. In other words have the front springs stiff enough as not to compress much if any from the weight of the vehicle. And the lower the ride height of the vehicle the better. And then fine tune the combo with the shocks/ struts settings. I remember on my Daytona which was a 5 speed at the time I lengthened the bump stops to try and limit rear squat in an extreme way. At each gear change when the car would hit the bump stops which was brutal, the tires would then break loose. That lead me in a different direction for the chassis setup.

[Reeves]

Maybe I won't try the straps until after SDAC. For one I probably won't have the time and for two, I won't know how well the new suspension works.

So I will soon have 400 lb coilover springs on the front with Koni's, and 450 lb coilover springs on the rear with Koni's. I hope this works!

Rob,
What do you run in the rear of your car? Yours is one of the smoothest cars going down the track that I've ever seen.

Marra,
I was with you on wanting softer springs in the front. I would think that they would rebound quicker. Maybe the idea of the high rate spring up front is that it won't unload as much cause it's already unloaded?

The cool thing is, with coilovers, you can change your springs out with different rates to try things for not too much dough. At least in my mind.

[GLHNSLHT2]

But it's the shift that starts it spinning.... I worry about a loose strap rather than pre-loaded. When the slack is taken up, That's going to be one helluva tug.... I can see metal bending and tearing... Like an impact hammer

Because the car is unweighted from the air trying to lift it off the ground the shift is enough shock to break the tires loose. Have no lift or some down force and the shock won't break the tires loose.

[contraption22]

Marra,
I was with you on wanting softer springs in the front. I would think that they would rebound quicker. Maybe the idea of the high rate spring up front is that it won't unload as much cause it's already unloaded?

The cool thing is, with coilovers, you can change your springs out with different rates to try things for not too much dough. At least in my mind.

True dat! I do have some stiffer springs to try in case these don't work out like i had hoped. But with the 1.6X 60 ft times i was cutting with the stock 130k mile base Horizon springs, I was afraid to go stiff initially.

[Reeves]

True dat! I do have some stiffer springs to try in case these don't work out like i had hoped. But with the 1.6X 60 ft times i was cutting with the stock 130k mile base Horizon springs, I was afraid to go stiff initially.

1.6? SOAB! I think the best I've EVER cut in this car was a 1.76. I get REALLY excited if I cut a 1.78. I'm usually in the 1.85 range.

Now I REALLY hope this works or I'm gonna be crying!

[BadAssPerformance]

...I'm usually in the 1.85 range. ...

My Shadow usually cuts 1.83-1.84... but then again it doesn't have enough power to turn the slicks, LOL ;)

So what all did you do to the car over the off season Reeves? Your car was a CONSISTANT high 10 / low 11 car last year? :confused:

[turbovanman²]

Best I cut with my auto and 22 inch slicks was 1.9's. Hopefully my bigger 24.5
s will help cut better 60fts.:thumb:

[Reeves]

My Shadow usually cuts 1.83-1.84... but then again it doesn't have enough power to turn the slicks, LOL ;)

So what all did you do to the car over the off season Reeves? Your car was a CONSISTANT high 10 / low 11 car last year? :confused:

Cam and more alcohol. I didn't mess with anything else!

[Reeves]

Cam and more alcohol. I didn't mess with anything else!

I meant to say I didn't mess with anything chassis wise. The cam and more alcohol seemed to have helped with power....but I'm blowing the slicks away when that power comes on.

Ken,
It's NOT when I'm shifting into 3rd or 4th when I'm blowing the slicks up in smoke.....it's when the powerband comes in!

[BadAssPerformance]

Cam and more alcohol. I didn't mess with anything else!

Wow... nothing? Leaving at more boost than before?

[contraption22]

1.6? SOAB! I think the best I've EVER cut in this car was a 1.76. I get REALLY excited if I cut a 1.78. I'm usually in the 1.85 range.

Now I REALLY hope this works or I'm gonna be crying!

I had a handfull of 1.6's. Normally I'm in the low 1.7's. With the new turbo instead of the half-assed hybrid, traction is more of an issue....

If you don't mind I'm gonna bend your ear quite a bit about alky at SDAC.

[R/T]

I got it.... GIANT aluminium wings, one on the hood, one on the roof to keep it planted at speed - kinda like an old Group B rally car..... :nod:

THATS why the ricers do it!!! :p

[ohiorob]

most of my 60' are about 1.80. one time i got a 1.57 but a hose popped off :mad: that was at norwalk, the best track for traction in the word :thumb:

[glhs875]

I've gotten (2) 1.96's and a ton of 2.0's on regular street radials. I use staged boost for 1st and sometimes 2nd gear, up to 3 stages. I've also done alot of weight removal on the rear of the car and shifted weight around on the front, along with some chassis tuning. I was having some problems with loosing traction when the S3 cam came on it's power band as well. Headed for the guard rail many times. Sometimes I would have to lift and abort the run. I'm hoping for some 1.8's on street radials after I get my car going again to help in my quest for the TD street radial tire record. I plan on going with a larger diameter tire along with more chassis tuning. We'll see how it goes. If the machine shop will ever get my head done!!! I feel after so much power is made, boost control in the lower gears can make a big difference. Without it I would never cut as good as 60's as I do or make down the track as well either! I have found it really doesn't take alot of power to cut a decent 60' on my Charger. And anymore power thrown to it than the tires can handle and my 60's go down along with my ET.

[glhs875]

I had a handfull of 1.6's. Normally I'm in the low 1.7's. With the new turbo instead of the half-assed hybrid, traction is more of an issue....

If you don't mind I'm gonna bend your ear quite a bit about alky at SDAC.


Those are some good 60's!

[GLHSKEN]

I meant to say I didn't mess with anything chassis wise. The cam and more alcohol seemed to have helped with power....but I'm blowing the slicks away when that power comes on.

Ken,
It's NOT when I'm shifting into 3rd or 4th when I'm blowing the slicks up in smoke.....it's when the powerband comes in!


YIKES!!!! Bigger gains than I thought

[mw6886]

Sounds to me like you need a bigger turbo. :eyebrows:

[turbovanman²]

Sounds to me like you need a bigger turbo. :eyebrows:

I think that would make it worse, :eyebrows: :p

[tryingbe]

Lower the front end and raise the rear end.
Destroke the engine?
Use the turbo as a rocket propeller? :thumb:

[crazy1eye]

I meant to say I didn't mess with anything chassis wise. The cam and more alcohol seemed to have helped with power....but I'm blowing the slicks away when that power comes on.


Sorry for the slight hijack :D


James, Which cam did you go with?

Thanks :thumb:

Good luck & have fun at SDAC.

[contraption22]

Lower the front end and raise the rear end.
Destroke the engine?
Use the turbo as a rocket propeller? :thumb:

Raising the rear won't help. Lowering the whole car will help.

[gasketmaster]

Since the bolt that attaches the A-arm to the K-frame doesn't move it would be pointless to connect the bottom of the strap to that.


Thank you :)

I was wondering when someone was going to point that out.....LOL!!!

[Turbodave]

Raising the rear won't help. Lowering the whole car will help.
There are advantages to both. Ideally the car would be as low as possible with maybe a slight rake to it.

Raising the rear of the car will help to transfer some the weight towards the front wheels and move the roll center forwards.

Lowering the car moves that point down and reduces the effect of weight transfer.

In this case I don't think James can get the front of the car much lower due to tire clearance. Lowering the rear actually will increase the weight on the rear tires and move the roll center back which is not ideal. Raising the rear will move some weight forwards, which is a good thing, but going too high in the back (Rocky's old Omni comes to mind) can increase the frontal area and cause a lot more drag going down the track, not good for the best et's.


I think the Koni's you've got on order James are really going to help. Personally I would set the front down as low as you can get it without rubbing the tires on the fenders and adjust the rear up around the stock height or a little taller. That and some aero-mods like a deeper front air dam should really help. Of course that's just my opinion and not based on any facts since all my cars are either broken or slow, so do with it what you will :D

[Reeves]

With the higher spring rate in the front, I can hopefully go lower without as much risk at hitting the slicks with the fenders. Might make turning even tougher though, as they rub when I turn now.

I've attached a few pics of my slow progress so far. I've been spending a lot of the past two evenings looking for the dam air dam. I just had it a few weeks ago and moved it......dam it!

[Reeves]

My monitor is going out, so I can't tell if those pictures look decent or not. They look dark to me.

The first pic is the removal of the sway bar (which will be going to SDAC with me just in case). The swaybar, bushings and hardware weighed in at 14.5 lbs. Woohoo! I hope this works cause it'll be a LOT easier changing axles!

One of them is a picture of my whiteboard. The first numbers are what the car measured from my garage floor to the bottom of the airdam with the stock suspension. The next numbers where my compression test. The next is tire circumference at different air pressure levels.

[mcsvt]

Pics look fine here.

Boy that car just looks slow ;)

[cordes]

+1 on the nice looking pics. That car really inspires me to get some work done to mine. thanks for posting that.

[Turbodave]

How do you get any work done in that crappy garage...lol...


I want a lift!

[Reeves]

I know....I really need to clean it up. All that stuff has piled up from other projects and never gets a home except a corner in my garage.

"Now where is that air dam........."

Oh yeah....and lifts are sweeeeet.

[Reeves]

Here's some explanation:

[cordes]

Here's some explanation:

Oh, you just have to rub it in...:mecry:

[turboshadow]

lol at harley go fast parts:eyebrows:

[Reeves]

I kind of got a souped up Sportster as well as a go fast OMNI.

[csxtra]

Nice Pics, but the Omni is blocking the "optimum bone" poster.:D

[8valves]

Raising the rear of the car will help to transfer some the weight towards the front wheels

This is actually backwards.

[boostedblue]

:thumb: :thumb: Jim, just want to say, " you are" THE MAN" best looking and running 4-dr L body I ever saw. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

[8valves]

This is actually backwards.

I agree.. it may technically work when the car is staitonary... but it will actually increase weight transfer to the rear.

Think about it this way. If you want your car to corner well... what is one of the most effective ways to accomplish this? Lowering it.

The same principal applies here. The higher the center of gravity, the more inertia you have under acceleration.

Why was my post changed to include this stuff that I didn't write? Can someone explain this? I'd assume accidental? The bolded selection was not in my original post, I didn't write any of that. The regular font is my post.

[cordes]

Why was my post changed to include this stuff that I didn't write? Can someone explain this? I'd assume accidental? The bolded selection was not in my original post, I didn't write any of that. The regular font is my post.

I think that Mike accidentally must have edited your post. It says it has been edited by contraption22. It happens on occasion.

[BadAssPerformance]

The edit and quote buttons are pretty close together and Mike ia a Mod...

[8valves]

Thanks, just wanted clarification. Also, because it DOESN'T put more initial load on the front tires to raise the rear. Quite the opposite actually.

[BadAssPerformance]

Why doesn't it?

Hypothetically... if you jack the rear bumper all the way up so that it is so high that it is directly over the rear axle, didn't the vehicles center of gravity of the vehicle move forward and thus bias the vehicle weight to the front tires?

[Ondonti]

might be because when you jack the bumper you are taking weight off the rear tires but if you are pushing up the car FROM the rear tires there is something else happening.

[Reeves]

Thanks for the comments on the car. It's not as nice as I'd like it to be, but I'm slowly working on that as well. Just had the hood re-done....it's gonna get re-done again! I guess that's what happens when you rush a buddy body guy.

Here's tonights progress. New airdam. It looks a lot nicer in person and on the ground then in the air...but you get the picture.... A few are dirty side up pictures so don't make fun!

[8valves]

Why doesn't it?

Hypothetically... if you jack the rear bumper all the way up so that it is so high that it is directly over the rear axle, didn't the vehicles center of gravity of the vehicle move forward and thus bias the vehicle weight to the front tires?

Think of carrying a heavy, flat door above your head, with a buddy on the other end. When is it harder to carry it, if he carries it at chest height and you carry it above your head, (front end down, back end up) or your end at chest and his up above his head? (front end up, rear end down?)

Hypothetically is fine, but if you put a car on corner scales and lower the rear you're putting more of the static weight into support by the front struts, as they are higher.

Go look at Pro FWD cars... they all tuck the rear tires.

Now my secret is out!

[BadAssPerformance]

I've never had any problems carrying either end of a door...

So lowering the rear adds more weight on the front tires? no way, prove it.

Pro cars are strapped... front and rear as low as possible to reduce frontal area.

[Turbodave]

I agree that having the car lower is better, no argument on that. But the the only advantage I could see to having the rear lower than the front is possibly cleaner aerodynamics.

[gasketmaster]

When I had my Stock Eliminator minivan on corner scales I lifted the rear probably 4"-5" by putting 90 psi in the rear airbags...........still 62% front weight just like it was without lifting it ;)

I WAS able to balance my front corner weights by varying the rear airbag pressure from side to side though :eyebrows:

I once had a chart for adjusting the sheet metal rear wing on a Comp Eliminator car.It showed how much horsepower the wing costed you for every degree you added from neutral to get a certain amount of down force at a certain mph.........it was quite interesting :)

When I looked at the roof of my minivan with the backend raised up I knew it would cost me power with all of that area :eek:

[BadAssPerformance]

I'm still waiting for one of you turbo van guys to do a chop top :thumb:

[SpoolinGLH]

Thanks for the comments on the car. It's not as nice as I'd like it to be, but I'm slowly working on that as well. Just had the hood re-done....it's gonna get re-done again! I guess that's what happens when you rush a buddy body guy.

Here's tonights progress. New airdam. It looks a lot nicer in person and on the ground then in the air...but you get the picture.... A few are dirty side up pictures so don't make fun!



Is that an S10 air dam??

[contraption22]

Thanks, just wanted clarification. Also, because it DOESN'T put more initial load on the front tires to raise the rear. Quite the opposite actually.

Sorry abou that Aaron. Sometimes I hit "Edit" when i mean to hit "quote". Usually when I do it, i catch my mistake. Sometimes I don't. Sorry about that.

[8valves]

I've never had any problems carrying either end of a door...

So lowering the rear adds more weight on the front tires? no way, prove it.

Pro cars are strapped... front and rear as low as possible to reduce frontal area.

Look at Rado's car... http://ndra.nopi.com/ndra_2k4/images/artdetail_1901.jpg

Notice diameter of the front vs rear tire size, it's put as low as it can fit over the fronts for the frontal area... the rear is also slammed for more weight initially over the front tires.

Just put your car on corner scales and watch set the rear down in ride height. It should take weight from the rear and put it up front.

In response to Terry's not getting any higher by raising it... sure! Now what would have happened had you LOWERED it 4-5 inches?

Think of old school RWD stuff. Everyone jacked the rear and slammed the front... for RWD. Switch drive wheels, and now why would you want the same stance?

Here's Ludwig's car, even more obvious... http://www.nhra.com/2006/images/news/june/ladwig.jpg

[8valves]

Point being, why would you set your car up the same as this guy??

http://www.draglist.com/artman/uploads/bruce_larson_70_by_bob_plumer.jpg

[gasketmaster]

You also lay the windshield angle back by lowering the rear ;)

Good info Aaron :thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

Look at Rado's car... http://ndra.nopi.com/ndra_2k4/images/artdetail_1901.jpg

Notice diameter of the front vs rear tire size, it's put as low as it can fit over the fronts for the frontal area... the rear is also slammed for more weight initially over the front tires.

Rear diameter is smaller so it is a ligher rear wheel/tire for less rotating mass. The center of the wheel is only the center of the axle and suspension, not the body... notice the body side skirt is parallel with the ground, not really lower in back, maybe even a pubic hair higher in back if the shadow line is correct...


Just put your car on corner scales and watch set the rear down in ride height. It should take weight from the rear and put it up front.

I would guess that it would be the same like Terry measured when he aired up his shocks and found no difference.

The only way to add more weight to the front tires in a static measurement is to move the center of gravity forward. I used the extreme condition in the hypothetical example I gave because the car would have to be really out of whack to be able to move the center of gravity forward.

Ever see Rocky's omni with 30° rake to it? I think it was probably out of whack enough to have more static weight on the front but it was also pushing 1/2 again more air so more loss in the big end of the track... setup that way it ran high 11's at barely 100mph

[BadAssPerformance]

Point being, why would you set your car up the same as this guy??

http://www.draglist.com/artman/uploads/bruce_larson_70_by_bob_plumer.jpg

Cause he's Captain America?

I don't think he could lower his any more in the rear for tire clearance... guess he hasn't tubbed it.

[turbo2point2]

"The first pic is the removal of the sway bar (which will be going to SDAC with me just in case). The swaybar, bushings and hardware weighed in at 14.5 lbs. Woohoo! I hope this works cause it'll be a LOT easier changing axles!"

Hey James, I felt the same way when I removed the swaybar from my Shadow. I have been running without the front swaybar for 2 seasons now. I have had no issues to date nor any ill effects from removing it.

[Keito]

Here's Ludwig's car, even more obvious... http://www.nhra.com/2006/images/news/june/ladwig.jpg[/QUOTE]

Ya but he uses a wheelie bar.
How does that work into the equation

[8valves]

Rear diameter is smaller so it is a ligher rear wheel/tire for less rotating mass. The center of the wheel is only the center of the axle and suspension, not the body... notice the body side skirt is parallel with the ground, not really lower in back, maybe even a pubic hair higher in back if the shadow line is correct...



I would guess that it would be the same like Terry measured when he aired up his shocks and found no difference.

The only way to add more weight to the front tires in a static measurement is to move the center of gravity forward. I used the extreme condition in the hypothetical example I gave because the car would have to be really out of whack to be able to move the center of gravity forward.

Ever see Rocky's omni with 30° rake to it? I think it was probably out of whack enough to have more static weight on the front but it was also pushing 1/2 again more air so more loss in the big end of the track... setup that way it ran high 11's at barely 100mph

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and you can believe what you want to believe and it won't bother me one bit.

I'm just trying to hint to people something to look into. I have coilovers on my car, and I have corner weighed it, twice actually, and by setting the rears lower the front end is forced to hold up more of the weight of the car. I have sat and watched the scales change as the ride height was adjusted. More-over, tire pressure alone will have HUGE effect on corner weights. A 1/2lb difference on one corner will upset that corner and kitty corner from it in both height and weight.

It flies in the face of convention, that is true. But then again, up until a year or two ago everyone said a one piece intake was better than anyone ever needed, and there was no point in anything but a ported stock manifold, and that a hyrbid turbo was for race cars only. Boy how times have changed.

[8valves]

The wheelie bar isn't allowed to be in contact with the ground at static ride height at the line. The rear suspension will be different as far as allowed travel to let the rear sit some so the bar touches down on the launch and effectively lengthens the wheelbase, and lowers the rear, so both a ride height and a leverage effect put weight on the front tires.

EDIT: I also thought worth mentioning that all of this is in relation to STATIC weight only. The only real way I see setting your car up low in the rear being an advantage is if you have a very stiff rear spring and shock as well.

A noteworthy point about that as well is with the rear way down and stiff, there is much less time and more importantly energy wasted squatting the rear down upon the initial hit on the line. With the rear already nearly as low as possible (make sure it won't hit bumpstops, that will upset the chassis!) the car is able to use more of it's energy for forward motion, rather than suspension motion in the rear. Faster R/T's and 60's.

[R/T]

Damn James, nice banners, who did your decorating??? ;)

Gonna be at the track tonight??? :confused:

[glhs875]

In another area on trying to improve traction is to lengthen the wheel base. There has been some TDer's doing just that to there cars. But from the best I could tell from the pictures of the ones I've seen, the rear pivot point and spring mount wasn't altered, only the length of the pivot point arm was lengthened. I can't see only lengthening the arm as really changing much. As the pivot point and spring perch that actually supports the car stays the same. If the car were RWD, I could see a longer arm becoming an advantage due to increased leverage to provide frontal lift with. But I feel if lengthing the wheel base on a FWD car, the support of the weight of the vehicle needs to be moved back as well to really make a difference.

[Reeves]

Yeah, it's a S-10 air dam. Dam they fit nice!

No R/T, no track for me tonight. I'm hoping the Fed-Ex guy shows up with a whole bunch of goodies for me to install this weekend.

[contraption22]

Will removing the sway bar actually help with traction, or just reduct weight?

[Reeves]

Will removing the sway bar actually help with traction, or just reduct weight?

I've heard it both ways. I've heard it makes the front more "independent" for traction.

As long as it doesn't hurt, I love it being gone! Not just for the weight, but for anytime you need to separate the ball joint!

[Turbodave]

In another area on trying to improve traction is to lengthen the wheel base. There has been some TDer's doing just that to there cars. But from the best I could tell from the pictures of the ones I've seen, the rear pivot point and spring mount wasn't altered, only the length of the pivot point arm was lengthened. I can't see only lengthening the arm as really changing much. As the pivot point and spring perch that actually supports the car stays the same. If the car were RWD, I could see a longer arm becoming an advantage due to increased leverage to provide frontal lift with. But I feel if lengthing the wheel base on a FWD car, the support of the weight of the vehicle needs to be moved back as well to really make a difference.

That is a good point, and lit a light bulb in my head in regards to Aaron seeing the weight on the front increase while lowering the rear. On our cars that rear suspension moves in an arc as it goes up and down. So lowering the back of the car would cause the wheelbase to lengthen slightly as the rear suspension moves to a more level position. This lengthening of the wheelbase should in theory transfer more weight to the front. I can't remember where the spindle sits in relation to the pivot point on front of the suspension, but in theory this would work. If the rear suspension is already level with the car at rest then my theory is wrong.

[glhs875]

That is a good point, and lit a light bulb in my head in regards to Aaron seeing the weight on the front increase while lowering the rear. On our cars that rear suspension moves in an arc as it goes up and down. So lowering the back of the car would cause the wheelbase to lengthen slightly as the rear suspension moves to a more level position. This lengthening of the wheelbase should in theory transfer more weight to the front. I can't remember where the spindle sits in relation to the pivot point on front of the suspension, but in theory this would work. If the rear suspension is already level with the car at rest then my theory is wrong.

That's a possibility. Even if a very slight change in wheelbase were taking place. And it may be.

[boostedblue]

Just my 2 cent on Pro FWD cars as shown the chassis is set up diff. than your L-body, I would think you need to look @ stock set up or maybe ???? set it up to run like a NHRA 7.90 0r 8.90 car (slow to leave line then run full out to top end ) keeping car lower,than more boost not getting a low 60 ft time but total quick ET, just my 2 cents , Boostedblue:thumb:

[BadAssPerformance]

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and you can believe what you want to believe and it won't bother me one bit.


It's not my "opinion"... it's "physics" ! ;)

And yes, our whole discussion was apout STATIC weight which really only matters the split second BEFORE the launch, LOL :thumb:

[GLHNSLHT2]

Thanks for the comments on the car. It's not as nice as I'd like it to be, but I'm slowly working on that as well. Just had the hood re-done....it's gonna get re-done again! I guess that's what happens when you rush a buddy body guy.

Here's tonights progress. New airdam. It looks a lot nicer in person and on the ground then in the air...but you get the picture.... A few are dirty side up pictures so don't make fun!


James, just one suggestion. Unbolt the corners/ends, and push them out to the very outside edge of the factory airdam and bolt them back up. This will push as much air as possible out around the slicks. Other than that it looks great! I'll have to measure my factory nose to see how high it's off the ground. and how high it is with the S10 airdam. On my ShelbyZ it can't be more than like 3". I know if we get more than about 2-3" of snow my GLH becomes a bit of a snow plow :)

[GLHNSLHT2]

Is that an S10 air dam?? Yep Gotta love them. I've had one on my GLH for about 7 years now. And 6 years on my ShelbyZ. 2 on my New Yorker and about 3 on my mother's Acclaim. Not only do they look great and give the car a mean stance they really help the efficiency of the radiator and intercooler by creating a huge pressure differential.

[Reeves]

James, just one suggestion. Unbolt the corners/ends, and push them out to the very outside edge of the factory airdam and bolt them back up. This will push as much air as possible out around the slicks. Other than that it looks great! I'll have to measure my factory nose to see how high it's off the ground. and how high it is with the S10 airdam. On my ShelbyZ it can't be more than like 3". I know if we get more than about 2-3" of snow my GLH becomes a bit of a snow plow :)


That's what I orginally wanted to do, but the end holes on the S-10 airdam I got from the junkyard are blown out. There was really nothing to attach it to out there.

Does anyone have a way to see how much one of these airdams costs new? I may buy a new one if they ain't to expensive. It's off a late 80's to early 90's S-10's. The old box style S-10. They had two different one's. 1 with fog lights and 1 without.

[dds78910]

Here's some explanation:

Not to get off topic, but how high is your ceiling? I like you lift, just kind of thinking of getting one but not sure if my ceiling is high enough.
P.S. I really like the Omni also!:nod:

[GLHNSLHT2]

I've heard they're cheap. As it about $15, but that was years ago and I never checked on them. I'm sure a swing by the local chevy dealer could answer the question quickly. I've just always found nice one's at the Jyard. If the holes aren't too bad a big washer on your bolt will hold it fine :)

[Turbodave]

$15.48 new for the S-10 airdam here: http://www2.partstrain.com/products/AutoBody/Air_Deflector/1991~CHEVROLET~S10~6~4-dot-3~S10P--008.html

[SpoolinGLH]

$15.48 new for the S-10 airdam here: http://www2.partstrain.com/products/AutoBody/Air_Deflector/1991~CHEVROLET~S10~6~4-dot-3~S10P--008.html


You know what, I was seriously about to buy one. But shipping is $25 to Ohio. :o I still might get it to save a trip to the junkyard and it will be brand new...

BTM James, Do you have a pic of your car on the ground with the new airdam?...

[Reeves]

$50.38 for the airdam after shipping and handling. Not bad, but not as nice as the $15 they advertise it for either.

I'm gonna paint mine and see how it turns out. After SDAC I may order a new one.

My garage height is 12' 6". It really probably only needs to be 10' for the lift I got. The taller ceiling makes it nice so that the 1 big garage door goes over the lift.

[GLHNSLHT2]

might want to still try the dealer

[MOPAR2YA]

Wheelie bar.

[Dominic]

Okay, after having read this thread, an old TD thread came to mind, a little something done up by Warren Stramer......

Traction device (http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f1/f37/100211-works.html)

Think it may help???

[Speedeuphoria]

might be a little harsh on a 5spd?

[8valves]

might be a little harsh on a 5spd?

Maybe... but hopefully your engine shouldn't move THAT much that it becomes a major issue of over-forcefully aplying the tires.

I think it would work great, I'd love to try it.

[BadAssPerformance]

Not sure if Warren ever tried it without the car being strapped... with straps it would in effect only tension the straps? Hopefully Warren will chime in :thumb:

[Reeves]

You know what, I was seriously about to buy one. But shipping is $25 to Ohio. :o I still might get it to save a trip to the junkyard and it will be brand new...

BTM James, Do you have a pic of your car on the ground with the new airdam?...

Here's a few after I got the suspension done and backed it out of the garage to wash it (not washed yet in these photo's). Ended up lowering it 1" in the front and maybe a little over an inch in the rear. It's pretty level now and has a little bit of clearance for the slicks (not shown).

[contraption22]

Here's a few after I got the suspension done and backed it out of the garage to wash it (not washed yet in these photo's). Ended up lowering it 1" in the front and maybe a little over an inch in the rear. It's pretty level now and has a little bit of clearance for the slicks (not shown).

Looks badass! Man I wish I was bringing the Horizon out to SDAC.

Hey that reminds me, could you bring that BOV testing fixture with you?

[GLHNSLHT2]

James what size tires do you have on that thing? Sits up quite high. Might want to think about a GLHS style block off plate for the hood grill if you don't have one. It'll keep air from going in and reducing the vacuum created underhood by the S10 airdam.

[Reeves]

James what size tires do you have on that thing? Sits up quite high. Might want to think about a GLHS style block off plate for the hood grill if you don't have one. It'll keep air from going in and reducing the vacuum created underhood by the S10 airdam.

225/50/15's all four corners. BFGoodrich Drag Radials up front.

The hood vent is wide open. I may look into blocking it.

[Reeves]

Looks badass! Man I wish I was bringing the Horizon out to SDAC.

Hey that reminds me, could you bring that BOV testing fixture with you?

I've got it on my list of stuff to bring. It's got a kickass regulator and gauge on it now from work. There yours for letting me borow it for 2 years! lol!

:thumb:

[R/T]

So Tristate Thursday, right???? :thumb:

[Reeves]

Left early at work today to get my car lined up. This is what happened on my truck on the way home.

Yeah, it tore up my fender flares and quarter panel a bit. Dammit!

Got the car aligned today. We spent about 3 hours on it. Gettin on it tonight it seems to do better. The track will tell.....

[Turbodave]

That sucks about the tire and the truck, seems to be the week for flats, my sister had one in her minivan last night also.

[R/T]

You let that tard work on your tires???

No wonder.... :lol:

[cordes]

Left early at work today to get my car lined up. This is what happened on my truck on the way home.

Yeah, it tore up my fender flares and quarter panel a bit. Dammit!

Got the car aligned today. We spent about 3 hours on it. Gettin on it tonight it seems to do better. The track will tell.....

Wow, that is a real bummer. Looks like that one was past due anyway though. It still stinks that it ripped up a bit of the quarter.

[Reeves]

Wow, that is a real bummer. Looks like that one was past due anyway though. It still stinks that it ripped up a bit of the quarter.

No, I was trying to show in the pictures that it had plenty of tread. It started chunking when I was driving home and then eventually just let go. Don't know what the hell happened. It was about 95 here yesterday....maybe it just got hot?

[cordes]

No, I was trying to show in the pictures that it had plenty of tread. It started chunking when I was driving home and then eventually just let go. Don't know what the hell happened. It was about 95 here yesterday....maybe it just got hot?

How many 32nds are left in a good spot? If you ran over something and started to loose air slowly, it sure could have heated up enough to fail like that. It is really quite common to see tires of all types come in like that a couple times a week.