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View Full Version : What do you want for TIII cams?



turbovanmanČ
06-05-2007, 10:03 PM
I am looking at getting just one stage made up, so I need some input. IF I get enough interest, I can get some billets so no more crappy, over priced cores or small base circles. LMK guys. Thanks.

86Shelby
06-05-2007, 11:40 PM
I might be interested. To be totally honest it simply depends on how agressive they are, the price and how the wallet is feeling at the time.

turbovanmanČ
06-06-2007, 02:04 AM
Thats the point of the thread, I need input on what we/you guys want.

86Shelby
06-06-2007, 07:29 PM
I want the magic bumpsticks that will allow me to make 500 whp with only +40's and pump gas on less than 20 psi. Oh, and it must idle smooth with enough vacuum to operate my power brakes. ;)

turbovanmanČ
06-06-2007, 08:26 PM
I want the magic bumpsticks that will allow me to make 500 whp with only +40's and pump gas on less than 20 psi. Oh, and it must idle smooth with enough vacuum to operate my power brakes. ;)

Wow, you mean the holy grail of cams, :eyebrows:

86Shelby
06-06-2007, 09:25 PM
Wow, you mean the holy grail of cams, :eyebrows:

Or an '03-04 Cobra.:nod:

WOP'R
06-07-2007, 10:02 PM
seems to me alot of ppl dont need to go too wild with these cams. A bunch of ppl are running stage 1 lonewolf cams and are happy.

and extra 50hp with no other mods is not too shabby.

btw any update on the springs?!? if the shadow didnt crap out on us again my R/T would have been ripped apart and ready to go!

Millerman340
06-07-2007, 11:13 PM
I was at the Goodguys street rod show in Jacksonville Fl ,I was talking to Crane cams about Making a custom set ( just for the sake of talking) & he said that if I brought mine that They would check them over to see what they could do to make them better. I'm assuming that since that when the cams are reground that most of the advantage is in the EX duration to make up that -20* overlap? They are not re heat treated so you only have a few thousandths to play with & our heads don't flow that much better with higher lifts? sound Correct? But on that note I'm in if they are not sky high:eyebrows:

MOPAR2YA
06-08-2007, 12:07 AM
Id argue that my reduced base circle cams are far from crappy...But if you need to trash others work to sell yours so be it.

turbovanmanČ
06-08-2007, 12:31 AM
Id argue that my reduced base circle cams are far from crappy...But if you need to trash others work to sell yours so be it.

Wallace, WTF are you talking about? how nice of you to stir the pot, ironic you complain and moan about OTHERS doing this but yet here you are, causing trouble. You obviously can't read either and also have a guilty conscience. I never mentioned YOUR cams, I mentioned STOCK cams. Go away and troll somewhere else please.
In case you didn't know, all reground cams have reduced base circles, some more than others due to damage so if you get new cams, no more reduced base circles. Sorry thats over your head, but anyone who sells reground cams should know that, right Wallace? but lets carry on shall we.

MOPAR2YA
06-08-2007, 12:43 AM
Heres your quote...
"I can get some billets so no more crappy, over priced cores or small base circles."

I think I know a tad about TIII cams, but if you need to trash my reground cams as crappy, because they are reduced base circles so be it. With the 30+ sets Ive done they cant be to "crappy".

Sorry you cant follow your own post. And I dont start stirring anything, I simply saw the post and saw you trashing reground cams, seems apparent to anyone neutral what you posted. Why not just say Im selling or looking into doing new billet cams.? Is it necessary to trash something else to make your sale/pitch?

BTW, I dont run around saying buy mine because his is crap, thats a sales technique I will leave to others.

turbovanmanČ
06-08-2007, 12:54 AM
Heres your quote...
"I can get some billets so no more crappy, over priced cores or small base circles."

I think I know a tad about TIII cams, but if you need to trash my reground cams as crappy, because they are reduced base circles so be it. With the 30+ sets Ive done they cant be to "crappy".

Sorry you cant follow your own post. And I dont start stirring anything, I simply saw the post and saw you trashing reground cams, seems apparent to anyone neutral what you posted. Why not just say Im selling or looking into doing new billet cams.? Is it necessary to trash something else to make your sale/pitch?

BTW, I dont run around saying buy mine because his is crap, thats a sales technique I will leave to others.

Wow, are you THAT much of a tool, read Wallace, read unless you failed 1st grade.

Hmmmmm, NOWHERE did I mention YOUR cams, again, do you have a guilty conscience?

If you must jack the thread, get your info right. I said, CRAPPY, OVERPRICED CORES, get that part, again, simple english, and REDUCED BASE CIRCLE cams, get that part. NOW again, for those who passed Kindergarten, will plainly understand that. Now go away, don't you have some head to port or something. Maybe I'll go over to TD and crap on your post, huh!

Tony Hanna
06-08-2007, 01:15 AM
Better judgement is telling me to stay out of this, but oh well...
It really seems to me that Simon doesn't like the idea of smaller base circle cams in general, and Wallace feels like his work is being attacked specifically.
If that's the case then all it would take is this:

Simon: I'm sorry you feel like I was attacking your work specifically. It's not that, it's just that I don't like the idea of smaller base circle cams and dealing with cores/core charges in general.

Wallace: I understand now, and while my opinion differs, I apologise for overreacting.

That doesn't seem hard at all, but WTF do I know I'm nothing more than a potential customer.

Tony

MOPAR2YA
06-08-2007, 01:35 AM
I think my point is quite clear. I guess Canadian grammer and American grammer are different. The word crappy followed by a comma then "cores or small base circles". In this case crappy is a adjective describing core and small base circles. Example: crappy core and crappy base circles.

BTW, I have no guilt on my consceince, but How many others are there doing TIII reground cams?

If your grammer was poor and you meant to ONLY call "cores" poor then my apology is offered, if you meant it as it was written. You already have my answer.

Im out.

Whorse
06-08-2007, 01:47 AM
I'm sick of people making comments about Canada. Go to hell Wallace.

GLHSKEN
06-08-2007, 07:37 AM
This will stop now. Tony hit it on the button. Well said Tony.

Whorse... this is a warning.... Your comment broke forum rules.

Wallace, You have expressed your dislike of this forum many times on TD.com. I think you get my point.

Simon, Please learn to ignore comments when someone is baiting you.

Millerman340
06-08-2007, 09:31 AM
My Opinion on this is that the stock cams were never that great ,reduced base or other wise. I think that a $400 set of cams would need to be new for most to justify that cost, Would I like a set ? Sure but when Delta cams does re grinds for around $80 a piece or I can hand them over to Crane or comp both of which are local .I'm all for suporting venders , But I've found the same stuff can be bought cheaper from people that are not involved with turbo Dodge's :o

turbovanmanČ
06-08-2007, 12:38 PM
My Opinion on this is that the stock cams were never that great ,reduced base or other wise. I think that a $400 set of cams would need to be new for most to justify that cost, Would I like a set ? Sure but when Delta cams does re grinds for around $80 a piece or I can hand them over to Crane or comp both of which are local .I'm all for suporting venders , But I've found the same stuff can be bought cheaper from people that are not involved with turbo Dodge's :o


I agree and thats why I am looking at Billet's. Yes, you can get a stock regrind for $80 but thats if the cam isn't too badly damaged, otherwise it has to be welded up and reground. I have one cam that the intake lobe is almost gone, :( If I can get enough interest, I can get new cams made for roughly the same cost as the high performance regrinds, :thumb:

Apololgy accepted Wallace but trust me, If I am going to bash you, I won't hide it, I'll say it in the open.

GLHSKEN
06-08-2007, 01:04 PM
What is the max lift a 16v can handle... Assume the valvetrain has the "right" parts. I know weight and pressure is an issue with the 16V on the springs

86Shelby
06-08-2007, 01:09 PM
If I can get enough interest, I can get new cams made for roughly the same cost as the high performance regrinds, :thumb:

I'd be in for that.

GLHSKEN
06-08-2007, 01:15 PM
I'd be in for that.

As would I ... Come sunday!!

turbovanmanČ
06-08-2007, 01:21 PM
What is the max lift a 16v can handle... Assume the valvetrain has the "right" parts. I know weight and pressure is an issue with the 16V on the springs


Not sure, I have to get my flowed head specs back to see what lift they stop flowing. Springs, working on that also.

Tony Hanna
06-08-2007, 01:58 PM
I've been kicking around the idea of taking a set of rockers to a machine shop to see about having them drilled and tapped on the ends for solid lash adjusters instead of the stock hydraulic ones. I wonder if that would play any kind of part in cam selection?

turbovanmanČ
06-08-2007, 02:14 PM
I've been kicking around the idea of taking a set of rockers to a machine shop to see about having them drilled and tapped on the ends for solid lash adjusters instead of the stock hydraulic ones. I wonder if that would play any kind of part in cam selection?

That would help on high lift cams I would guess or cams were the base circle is really reduced.

Tony Hanna
06-08-2007, 02:29 PM
Cool. I'm still learning about the 16v valvetrain, but with the lifter (lash adjuster) problems and availability, I figured solid might be the way to go.

Millerman340
06-08-2007, 06:07 PM
Delta's are a performance regrind also not stock re grind.

turbovanmanČ
06-08-2007, 07:03 PM
Delta's are a performance regrind also not stock re grind.

Good to know. Have you tried their performance regrind?

Millerman340
06-08-2007, 07:55 PM
No but yogurtslinger
& turboshelbys
on the other board has, look him up.

iTurbo
06-09-2007, 05:39 PM
I have regrinds in my Spirit R/T. I have often wondered if the reduced base circle is adversly affecting anything but the valvetrain/lifters are quiet. The original cams were trashed when I bought the car thanks to a broken rocker arm that wedged itself in between one of the lobes and the head casting (ouch!). I sent those cams in and got LWP stage one cams and there wasn't a trace of any damage when they came back. So in my case the regrind also 'fixed' the cam which is mostly the reason I decided to get the regrinds in the first place. On my car, the low end torque suffered a little bit compared to stock cams and I have a tad less idle vacuum but the power band really wakes up from about 3000 all the way to redline.

If I were going to buy another set of aftermarket TIII cams, I would like to try new billet cams over regrinds. Price would be a big concern, and like was stated earlier...depends on how much my wallet weighs at the time.

moparmaster
07-04-2007, 02:04 PM
I would do an $80 regrind if they were the same specs as the stg 1 cams. Does anybody know the specs and how do you check to see if your cams are good?

turbovanmanČ
07-04-2007, 02:06 PM
I don't have the stg1 specs but its really easy to see if your cams are bad, look for pitting, flaking, bad spots.

RJ138
09-13-2007, 05:41 PM
I have been thinking of getting custom cams made, did anything become of this? Is it still in the works? Very interested!

turbovanmanČ
09-13-2007, 06:38 PM
I have been thinking of getting custom cams made, did anything become of this? Is it still in the works? Very interested!


My cam grinder came up with a nice grind, slightly wilder than Wallace's stage 1 but still tame. If interested, I will come up with a price. I could get it done and you just send me your cams, I have one spare set.

RJ138
09-13-2007, 09:07 PM
I was looking more into a custom set of brand new cams and a little on the wild side.:evil:

A set of brand new billet cams would be very nice.:thumb:

turbovanmanČ
09-13-2007, 09:34 PM
I was looking more into a custom set of brand new cams and a little on the wild side.:evil:

A set of brand new billet cams would be very nice.:thumb:


I can do wild also but billets, with the response here, I couldn't justify spending $1000's on billet cores that will sit around forever.

RJ138
09-13-2007, 09:50 PM
I can do wild also but billets, with the response here, I couldn't justify spending $1000's on billet cores that will sit around forever.

Is that what it would cost, 1000 a set? The regrinds are 750 if you don't provide your cores, thats why I thought the billets might be the way to go. I figured they would be around 600 or so, not really sure why I though that. I have probably been looking at to many EVO/DSM parts.

turbovanmanČ
09-13-2007, 11:29 PM
Is that what it would cost, 1000 a set? The regrinds are 750 if you don't provide your cores, thats why I thought the billets might be the way to go. I figured they would be around 600 or so, not really sure why I though that. I have probably been looking at to many EVO/DSM parts.

I would have to spend $1000's to buy them. I think the minimum order is 50 so yeah, even if I only sell 10 sets, then I am stuck with 40 cams that I paid for.

$750, makes sense due to the high cost of cores.

mpgmike
09-17-2007, 09:21 AM
As far as profiles go, there are a lot of similarities between the TIII and the DOHC Neon heads. Both start at about 0.350" lift stock. Though a cam specialist would probably note differences, looking at how different Crane cams respond to the Neon stuff might give us direction on the TIII choices. The Crane 18 cam seems to be a popular choice with good feedback.

Mike

MOPAR2YA
09-25-2007, 10:21 AM
Keep in mind the Crane 18 is a NA cam, although it does make more power, its not the best choice for a turbo application. Last time I checked new billet cams were 750.00 and that was for S1 S2 or S3 since they have to grind lobes anyway.

turbovanmanČ
09-25-2007, 11:25 AM
Keep in mind the Crane 18 is a NA cam, although it does make more power, its not the best choice for a turbo application. Last time I checked new billet cams were 750.00 and that was for S1 S2 or S3 since they have to grind lobes anyway.

Thats probably true now with the dollar the way it is but on my end, they have a minimum order.

RJ138
10-10-2007, 04:09 PM
Cams are something I am definitly looking into for a future modification, who can make custom billet cams for 750?

Just briefly looking into it today I found this place that is somewhat local (same state).

http://www.integralcams.com/custom_cams.htm

Sounds pretty expensive, they start at 1,100 dollars. Although these are prototype, one off cams, with a turn around time of 6-8 weeks.

I am going to continue to look into it and see what else I can find.

turbovanmanČ
10-10-2007, 04:41 PM
Cams are something I am definitly looking into for a future modification, who can make custom billet cams for 750?

Just briefly looking into it today I found this place that is somewhat local (same state).

http://www.integralcams.com/custom_cams.htm

Sounds pretty expensive, they start at 1,100 dollars. Although these are prototype, one off cams, with a turn around time of 6-8 weeks.

I am going to continue to look into it and see what else I can find.

$1100 isn't a bad deal, thats what most Import owners pay.

I could probably do it for around $750 if I had enough buyers.

RJ138
10-10-2007, 06:30 PM
$1100 isn't a bad deal, thats what most Import owners pay.

I could probably do it for around $750 if I had enough buyers.

Sadly, I don't think enough people would step up to the plate.:(

I am going to try and look into it more and see what else I can find, I am guessing a set of cams from the place I linked earlier would be a little over 1100 dollars.:(

Xtrempickup
10-11-2007, 07:23 PM
not for 1100 i wouldnt, stage 1, 2 ,or 3 for 750 was a good deal and i have mine cryo treated and all. cant wait to put them to use

turbovanmanČ
10-11-2007, 07:42 PM
not for 1100 i wouldnt, stage 1, 2 ,or 3 for 750 was a good deal and i have mine cryo treated and all. cant wait to put them to use

The import crowd, DOHC domestic cars pay $1100 or more without blinking an eye, why are we so different?

Xtrempickup
10-11-2007, 11:03 PM
because they have one import that will run 10 seconds and i have 3 dodges that i work on and 2 daily drivers. Most import people drive their hornets nest daily

86Shelby
10-11-2007, 11:50 PM
The import crowd, DOHC domestic cars pay $1100 or more without blinking an eye, why are we so different?

1. Generally speaking they are later model cars, where you really need more disposable income to purchase the vehicle, let alone modify it. I'd rather have a relatively inexpensive fun car, my R/T, and put the balance I'd spend on a newer car into savings.

2. Because it can be difficult to get high quality performance parts at a decent(in our eye) price.

3. By and large, they have accepted the fact that performance costs money. One of the TD mantras for years has been inexpensive performance. Many of us are still doing our best to get Hemi performance at SBC prices.

zin
10-11-2007, 11:58 PM
The import crowd, DOHC domestic cars pay $1100 or more without blinking an eye, why are we so different?

WE ARE TURBO DODGE! HEAR US... try to turn a copper penny into wire! :lol:

Let's face it, we're all pretty cheap, er I mean thrifty , so it's painful to spend more than $50.00 on a performance part... ;)

That said, I feel it's a bit silly to spend money on a ported head, etc, if the cams are going to be a choking point on even a stock head. IIR correctly, the stock cam stops way short of what the stock head can flow. More specifically, the ports/valves continue to "work" long after the cam has quit, so just picking up the lift, while keeping the duration close to the same (in order to give the cam some longevity, preserve vacuum, etc) would be well worth the effort. IMHO

Oh, and most of the Import folks, from my experience anyway, are the type of enthusiast that don't have that much knowledge or ability, they either just bolt it in, or pay someone to do it for them. (I know, not all are that way, after all somebody has to come up with the stuff, but it seems to be what drives that part of the industry)

Mike

turbovanmanČ
10-12-2007, 12:45 AM
2. Because it can be difficult to get high quality performance parts at a decent(in our eye) price.

3. By and large, they have accepted the fact that performance costs money. One of the TD mantras for years has been inexpensive performance. Many of us are still doing our best to get Hemi performance at SBC prices.

Its not difficult, we have access to tons of parts but constantly whine about how expensive it is, IE TIII engines. I just ordered some parts for a Talon today that would make a grown man cry.

Exactly, performance costs money. :nod:

John B
10-12-2007, 03:15 AM
Let's face it, we're all pretty cheap, er I mean thrifty , so it's painful to spend more than $50.00 on a performance part... ;)


Mike I have put many thousands into my TD but my biggest problem is vendor response. I have funds in hand and several critical projects on hold waiting for the pertinent vendors to do their part. This has been my single greatest frustration with TD's. I really miss RP.

turbovanmanČ
10-12-2007, 12:35 PM
I have put many thousands into my TD but my biggest problem is vendor response. I have funds in hand and several critical projects on hold waiting for the pertinent vendors to do their part. This has been my single greatest frustration with TD's. I really miss RP.

I agree to a point, I've had mostly good luck, ;)

RJ138
10-12-2007, 01:04 PM
One way I look at it is a set of brand new stock cams for a T3 is going to cost at least 700 dollars (if you can even find a set). Why pay 700 dollars for crappy cams, they are extremly mild and are known for pitting and grinding down. If you want them to last longer you can get them cryo treated but thats even more money.

People can be cheap all they want but in the next 5-10 years T3s will become more and more rare and the people that own them will want more and more money for the parts. So what is going to happen to the costs of stock cams then? Hell, I have seen the prices of used stock cams go up since I got into these cars, they use to come up on ebay quite frequently and sell for 75-100 bucks a piece.

These cylinder heads need better cams, I see Evos pick up a ton of power from cams and I think we should be able to also. Plus I would like a nasty little lope in my idle...:evil:

turbovanmanČ
10-12-2007, 02:08 PM
One way I look at it is a set of brand new stock cams for a T3 is going to cost at least 700 dollars (if you can even find a set). Why pay 700 dollars for crappy cams, they are extremly mild and are known for pitting and grinding down. If you want them to last longer you can get them cryo treated but thats even more money.

People can be cheap all they want but in the next 5-10 years T3s will become more and more rare and the people that own them will want more and more money for the parts. So what is going to happen to the costs of stock cams then? Hell, I have seen the prices of used stock cams go up since I got into these cars, they use to come up on ebay quite frequently and sell for 75-100 bucks a piece.

These cylinder heads need better cams, I see Evos pick up a ton of power from cams and I think we should be able to also. Plus I would like a nasty little lope in my idle...:evil:


You don't make sense??? :confused:

On one hand, your saying you want better cams, on the other hand, you won't pay $1100 and you won't pay $700 for crappy cams??????

RJ138
10-12-2007, 02:12 PM
You don't make sense??? :confused:

On one hand, your saying you want better cams, on the other hand, you won't pay $1100 and you won't pay $700 for crappy cams??????

Never said I wouldn't pay 1100 for cams. I just don't want to pay 700 for stock ones. Hopefully next spring I can have a set made.:evil:

turbovanmanČ
10-12-2007, 02:21 PM
Never said I wouldn't pay 1100 for cams. I just don't want to pay 700 for stock ones. Hopefully next spring I can have a set made.:evil:

Well, you did say you wanted new billet cams for made for $750, ;) :lol: :clap:

RJ138
10-12-2007, 02:28 PM
Well, you did say you wanted new billet cams for made for $750, ;) :lol: :clap:

I thought thats what both you and Wallace said you could get them made for?:confused2: The only place I found that did custom prototype cams started at 1100. Although I have not looked into any of the major suppliers.

turbovanmanČ
10-12-2007, 03:28 PM
I thought thats what both you and Wallace said you could get them made for?:confused2: The only place I found that did custom prototype cams started at 1100. Although I have not looked into any of the major suppliers.

Its a possibility but I need a group buy, I can't just get one set of billet blanks, I have to order a minimum amount and until I get some serious offers, not going to bother.