E85 Ethanol, waste of time or worth while?

[TurboNeon568]

I am in the process of purchasing a dodge omni GLH and I had a novel idea; Why not run it on E85 ethanol?

The way I understand it is that ethanol (or any type of alchohol fuel) is more resistant to detonation. While it does make slightly less power (2 or 3 hp total) than regular gasoline, the ability to run more boost with less fuel, in my opinion, might be a worth while tradeoff. 2-4 hp total is not a big loss in the first place but with the added bonus of being able to make more boost with less fuel would mean more HP total than a forced induction setup on regular gasoline in the long run, I would imagine. So the tradeoff would almost be voided. Not to mention the added benefit of being cheaper to purchase (the fuel cost) and more economically and environmentally friendly. And, when retrofitted to run on E85 ethanol, you can not only still run gasoline if necessary but run pure alchohol on a race tune or even other blends. On the other hand, the need for more fuel to make power might negate the obvious benefits listed previously. Pure alchohol requires a substantial amount more than gasoline to make power but burns so cool that most alchohol drag cars do not even need or run a radiator. i am just unsure about all of this. i would like to make a more educated decision.

What i wonder is if the resistence to detonation is great enough to warrant the expense of a retrofit.

i would like some feedback on this. Please give me your thoughts on this and help me make my decision.

[8valves]

If I had constant access to it I would run my car on it 24/7. It is a great way to make more power on "pump gas".

[Speedeuphoria]

if you raise the CR up a little it would be a great idea, I would run it also if it was available:thumb:

[TurboNeon568]

That was quick, i only posted like 20 minutes ago. i got a friend who thinks it is a waste and that is costs more money to build and makes less power. he won't listen long enough for me to say anything in its defense. What I need to know is if I do decide to retrofit it so it will use both E85 and regular gasoline, what parts besides fuel delivery would need to be upgraded? I heard something about alky fuels eating piston rings.

[Clay]

well, I have access to it all the time, and Im planning on using it in the future. It requires 20%+ more fuel, but its like 110 octane.

Dont think you will have any problems with pistons or rings. its the fuel system you need to worry about. Though I know MANY people running basically stock fuel systems with E85 and no problems. (not turbo dodge cars though)

[TurboNeon568]

I thought that the alky might not be so good for the non- chrome-moly stuff. I know it'll eat the rubber in things like the FPR diaphragm and fuel lines from the tank. Would I have to use eurethane or something like that and how would the alky in the fuel affect things like my fuel pump, filter, rail and injectors?

[MiniMopar]

Find a flex-fuel car and you will get everything that you need...pump, lines, rail, etc.

[Ondonti]

how exactly do you only need 20% more fuel. It is actually 85% ethanol? I guess ethanol doesn't need as much fuel for stoic as meth does.

[Clay]

as a whole you need 20%+ fuel, ie you need to run +20 injectors with a stock fuel system to run E85. (ive seen people use 20% up to 30%)

E85 has less energy than gasoline, so you need more if it to maintain your same power.

[yogurt_slinger]

so you pretty much need to rape the entire fuel setup out of a flex-fuel car.. I take it thats why the flex fuel stainless injectors are already +20%?

[Clay]

yeah, but that will only be go for as much HP as a stock fuel system will support. Well, at least the injectors anyway. You can upgrade them, but them your rail is the limit.

[TurboNeon568]

Yea but E85 also has 15% gasoline too so that usually comes close to making up for the 20% difference, I thought.

Either way, the ability to withstand more boost makes me wanna try it out.

[WickedShelby88]

I ran about a 30% ratio of E85 with gas. It won't usually ever cause a problem with anything at that level. I noticed no ping at all after that which was a real problem because my mini has the typical oil burning 3.0. I also noticed a little bit better driveability in my T1 log car when running that same mix. I'm lucky because in good ole Northern IL E85 stations are quite common. They just put a new one up about 20 min. away from me.

[Tony Hanna]

No E85 around here yet. Tiff has a flex fuel Ranger that's never seen a drop of the stuff.:lol:

[TurboNeon568]

i think there's one E65 station near me in OKC but I think it's the only one in OK.

[Clay]

Yea but E85 also has 15% gasoline too so that usually comes close to making up for the 20% difference, I thought.

Either way, the ability to withstand more boost makes me wanna try it out.

well, the people I know actually running the stuff in their cars all had to increase their fuel approx. 20%. so I dont think that "makes up" for much.

[Anonymous_User]

Have access to E85 here.

So, it you need 20% more fuel, on a setup like mine - +40's, 20 psi.... If I run straight E85 I would have to DROP the boost? Or would the increased ability of E85 to resist detonation make it OK?

I suppose I could bump the static fuel pressure up 20% to 66. That would be 86 psi fuel at 20 psi boost.

[cordes]

If I had constant access to it I would run my car on it 24/7. It is a great way to make more power on "pump gas".

+1. We will be getting an ethanol plant here in town in the next year or so. I am not happy about it, but I plan on making the best of it.

Now where to find alky compatible 95pph. injectors...

[Ondonti]

what fuel pumps are safe with E85?

[cordes]

what fuel pumps are safe with E85?

The only 100% safe ones that I have read about are the flex fuel vehicle pumps, and the pumps in the jegs catalog etc. which are usually alky safe inline pumps.

[Clay]

Lots of people out there are using walbro 255s with no problems.

[contraption22]

Have access to E85 here.

So, it you need 20% more fuel, on a setup like mine - +40's, 20 psi.... If I run straight E85 I would have to DROP the boost? Or would the increased ability of E85 to resist detonation make it OK?

I suppose I could bump the static fuel pressure up 20% to 66. That would be 86 psi fuel at 20 psi boost.

Or you could put in bigger injectors....

[puppet]

20% seems like a lot. How did Ma Mopar handle this FF situation in the calibration?

[Anonymous_User]

Or you could put in bigger injectors....

Yes, but the cost of larger injectors once you go above +40's is a little steep.

[contraption22]

Yes, but the cost of larger injectors once you go above +40's is a little steep.

Eh not if you look in the right places. I have 72lb injectors, they weren't that much more than +40's.

[cordes]

Eh not if you look in the right places. I have 72lb injectors, they weren't that much more than +40's.

+1 I found a place which sold 92pph? injectors for just over what a set of +40s would cost. I could not get a reply from the company as to whether or not they would work with alky though.

[Anonymous_User]

Eh not if you look in the right places. I have 72lb injectors, they weren't that much more than +40's.

I did not know there were 72lb'rs out there at reasonable prices. Hmmm......

[Speedeuphoria]

http://www.raceprovenmotors.com/cart/product_info.php?products_id=167&osCsid=5275b5f1bb9a2a489054169f4df565ad

$60 each for 160lb'ers great for E85:eyebrows:

[cordes]

http://www.raceprovenmotors.com/cart/product_info.php?products_id=167&osCsid=5275b5f1bb9a2a489054169f4df565ad

$60 each for 160lb'ers great for E85:eyebrows:

How do you know that those are alcohol compatible?