Menegon Head and 16 Valve

[SpoolinGLH]

Just curious if someone has some flow numbers comparing a menegon head and a stock 16 valve.... Want to see how comparable they are..:eyebrows:

[The S is Silent]

I'll post up my flow results

Intake
.100" = 68.31
.200" = 114.35
.300" = 149.99
.400" = 181.17
.430" = 188.59
.500" = 204.93

Exhaust
.100" = 63
.200" = 94.5
.300" = 124.25
.400" = 141.75
.430" = 148.05
.500" = 151.28

[The S is Silent]

Head.................Intake.............Exhaust... .......Lift
Lotus 16V..........244 cfm..........182 cfm...........350"
Maserati 16V......237 cfm...........213 cfm...........350"
Neon DOHC........237 cfm...........195 cfm...........350"
Swirl SOHC.........156 cfm...........135 cfm..........500"

From dodgegarage.com

[SpoolinGLH]

awseme...matt is yours for a menegon head?

[The S is Silent]

Yup. It truly is a piece of art. A tear came to my eye when I opened it.

[SpoolinGLH]

Yup. It truly is a piece of art. A tear came to my eye when I opened it.



I have one :eyebrows: ....Can't wait to try it out with my hybrid turbo.....bet you can tell a BIG difference..huh

[The S is Silent]

I'll let you know in a couple of months. I'm finally getting everything together to get my charger running again.

Menegon headed 2.5 with a stage 2 50 trim T3/T4 hybrid is going to be absolutely insane. I'm considering putting the 0.48 A/R turbine housing on to get insane low RPM boost. I think I could get good spool by 2500...maybe full boost by 3000 rpm! I have both housings though...so I think a back to back test is in order!

[SpoolinGLH]

Go with the .63. Specially with the great flowing head that you have!

[89DaytonaTII]

yeah even the best 8v head can't compare very well to a stock 16v head.

151 @ .500
to
183 @ .350

[Will Martin]

I just put my car togther, specs are in my sig. I can honestly say that I'm a bit 'cautious' about turning this baby up. I have an aluminum flywheel as well and it revs fast in every gear up to redline building power (well not every gear, as I've only done it through 1-3). I am so impressed with this set up that I'm FINALLY satisfied with a car that I own. Just taking it out tuning it yesterday and I'm just all smiles. I still have to get a cal since the set up before was a S60 VNT so I'm using that stock cal for now with a MBC. My head flowed (I can't remember exactly) something like 206/153 @.500. Either way it's a BIG improvement over stock.

[SpoolinGLH]

I just put my car togther, specs are in my sig. I can honestly say that I'm a bit 'cautious' about turning this baby up. I have an aluminum flywheel as well and it revs fast in every gear up to redline building power (well not every gear, as I've only done it through 1-3). I am so impressed with this set up that I'm FINALLY satisfied with a car that I own. Just taking it out tuning it yesterday and I'm just all smiles. I still have to get a cal since the set up before was a S60 VNT so I'm using that stock cal for now with a MBC. My head flowed (I can't remember exactly) something like 206/153 @.500. Either way it's a BIG improvement over stock.


Will

was that with or without alchohol injection? lol ..my mods are basically the same as yours except im going with the super 50 and a tu header...Glad to here your impressed..any speculation on what it will run??

[The S is Silent]

something like 206/153 @.500. Either way it's a BIG improvement over stock.

Gwaaaaa! You have 2 cfm on me!!!

:lol:

[Will Martin]

Will

was that with or without alchohol injection? lol ..my mods are basically the same as yours except im going with the super 50 and a tu header...Glad to here your impressed..any speculation on what it will run??

Well the alcohol injection isn't hooked up yet. I have the whole system and all, but I'm still trying to dail everything in with the TIV computer. I'll be ordering a cal tomorrow.

About 50 minutes ago, I got a call from a fellow member that his car was wouldn't start and he was stuck at Star Bucks. So I grab some tools, fusible links, tape, fuses, etc and head out (about 7 minutes from my house). I still have the timing set low (8 degrees) and boost to about 10 psi. The car was just a blast to drive. There were a couple of cars around but not much, but I did take out a Civic but I could've done that in reverse. :thumb: I'm just guessing it's an easy high 12 second car. I'm gonna get some slicks and see what she has this coming season.

[Frank]

Actually the swirl head listings are more acurate here... shown side by side with my Steve Menagon G head....

http://www.squirrelpf.com/site/files/frank/daytona_flow.jpg

[Opticon]

What about a Menegon 16 Valve? :eyebrows:

[Frank]

I know he did one for Mike Marra's brother, but it was never flow benched.


Frank

[GLHSKEN]

I have the big valve swirl from Steve. Intake... 206 exhaust.. confusion as to either 158 or 161 on that side.

[show-off]

Interesting....Mr P-body (turob Dynamx) said the stage 3 exhaust w/ his "funky" port flowed around 200 intake & 188 exhaust on 1mm valves. I don't have a sheet...just the head. It is nasty up to though, but it makes me wonder.

[Frank]

What do you mean by stage 3 exhaust?

[show-off]

That was his exteme exhaust port. It has the fin to direct exhaust flow. The head does flow very well, but 188 is a lot on an exhaust side!

[Directconnection]

Head.................Intake.............Exhaust... .......Lift
Lotus 16V..........244 cfm..........182 cfm...........350"
Maserati 16V......237 cfm...........213 cfm...........350"
Neon DOHC........237 cfm...........195 cfm...........350"
Swirl SOHC.........156 cfm...........135 cfm..........500"

From dodgegarage.com


Those #s are high across the board. I flowed a T-III head and got 217-ish cfm, and a stock swirl only flows in the low 140's. I have backed this up on 3 different benches as well with the 8v heads.

[8valves]

That was his exteme exhaust port. It has the fin to direct exhaust flow. The head does flow very well, but 188 is a lot on an exhaust side!

I'd be curious as to see this in reality. I know where Mike learned the majority of his technique and that peron has a hard time seeing it. That is, unless of course he's doing something entirely different now.

Aaron Miller

[show-off]

Mike said it was the new design he did. I think mine was the 2nd or 3rd head done. He did not flow test mine, but the 1 right before mine. (That is what he told me)

I have shown it to 2 machinest that were impressed with the port job, and DodgeZ has seen it and ridden in my car...hell he helped put it on! It flows good, but I am not sure how much.

[8valves]

Mike said it was the new design he did. I think mine was the 2nd or 3rd head done. He did not flow test mine, but the 1 right before mine. (That is what he told me)

I have shown it to 2 machinest that were impressed with the port job, and DodgeZ has seen it and ridden in my car...hell he helped put it on! It flows good, but I am not sure how much.

Oh I'm sure it's nice, I'm just curious if it flows as well as he said it did. Not to discredit him whatsoever, but until recently his "mentor" if you will, wasn't able to hit those numbers and that's where his head porting on TD stuff info came from. Maybe he figured out some new things on his own, if so, good for him!

Aaron Miller

[show-off]

I am not sure about the numbers b/c I don't have proof. Just repeating what I was told. So I don't know. The guy that built my short block is anti bench flowing, so he didn't have one to test it. (he says the power is in the HP #'s)

[turbovanman²]

I am not sure about the numbers b/c I don't have proof. Just repeating what I was told. So I don't know. The guy that built my short block is anti bench flowing, so he didn't have one to test it. (he says the power is in the HP #'s)

That is a great saying. The flowbench can say it flows but yeah, the proof is in the HP numbers, :amen:

[Frank]

Its an ignorant statement. While the results are in the hp, you can't make small changes and then drag race it over and over. What people dont realize is that guys who port heads all advertise at 28" of vac, the REAL results of their changes and how well this thing will make power is when you flow at 40". Just ask Steve Menagon what his heads flow at 40"... he knows but wont tell you. :D Well he might, but I doubt it. Anyway, the higher vacuum draw allows you to see the real effects of velocity.


Frank

[SpoolinGLH]

Why won't he tell you? lol

[Frank]

Maybe he will tell... after all, since they are good, he has nothing to worry about. However nobody produces that information to the public, so its meaningless to compare.


Frank

[GLHSKEN]

Spool-up and driveability with a big turbo and his head are incredible...

[Directconnection]

Anyway, the higher vacuum draw allows you to see the real effects of velocity.


Frank

Or more actually... let's you see closer to what an engine sees. I think I heard a flowbench would have to run a test pressure of around 120" to re-create a N/A motor. Higher test pressure in my eyes must also create more velocity on the bench. Good way to tell if you have too much velocity... but I know of zero 100-120" test pressure flowbenches. Add in the bee-yoost... and things change dramatically.

[shelbyplaya]

Yup. It truly is a piece of art. A tear came to my eye when I opened it.
i almost cryed as well when i help will martins SM head.

[Directconnection]

I am not sure about the numbers b/c I don't have proof. Just repeating what I was told. So I don't know. The guy that built my short block is anti bench flowing, so he didn't have one to test it. (he says the power is in the HP #'s)

I don't know why so many people are "anti-denti" Ooops! I mean "ant-flowbench" A flowbench is obviously a TOOL. An important tool that tells you if your ideas work, or not, and by how much. The how much part is the hard part as there's more than meets the eye when reading flowbench results. The #s are not the final word. You have to read into the results and be knowledgable enough to understand what is really happening.

The flowbench as a TOOL.... A headporter not using one is like and engine builder not using his mics on your bottom end because "the clearances are in the motor"

[turbovanman²]

Geez, I am not saying having flow bench is bad but come on, having numbers isn't king. Theres so many variables etc. You can say you have the highest flowing head in the world but it doesn't mean sh*t until you dyno the engine. Look at the old Ford big block heads, massive ports and valves-great numbers on the bench, ran like sh*t on the street, even race guys couldn't get them to run properly, just too big.

[Frank]

Geez, I am not saying having flow bench is bad but come on, having numbers isn't king. Theres so many variables etc. You can say you have the highest flowing head in the world but it doesn't mean sh*t until you dyno the engine. Look at the old Ford big block heads, massive ports and valves-great numbers on the bench, ran like sh*t on the street, even race guys couldn't get them to run properly, just too big.

I hear ya.... not harping on you. However at the same time, flowing those Ford heads at higher vacuum probably would have shown that they suck.

[turbovanman²]

I hear ya.... not harping on you. However at the same time, flowing those Ford heads at higher vacuum probably would have shown that they suck.

They do suck, literally, hahahaha, :p

[glhs875]

They do suck, literally, hahahaha, :p

No, actually the engines SUCK!

[cordes]

No, actually the engines SUCK!

No actually, pressure pushes the air in there.:D

[tps25pentium]

the truth is that the intakes suck.. and yes they DO suck

[Frank]

engines always suck! its the ambient conditions that change....


frank

[show-off]

I think we have whored this thread pretty bad. Sorry man!