Whats the best washer fluid?

[1FastCSX289]

I just installed my Devilsown kit and I want to know what you guys are running for washer fluid. I heard Walmart supertech was good, so thats what I put in there to start, but there is no ratio of water/meth written on the label. How about the "yellow" washer fluid.......from the looks of the label ("highly flammable") it probably has more methanol in it. What do you think? Whos using what and WHY?

[Dez]

Well i am not using WF, but denatured alcohol, which is working GREAT by the way :)

I use to use the *something* blue, not sure on the name :/. That was what i was using when i was running 27PSI.

The washer fluid seemed to work ok.

[Sethyboy85]

blue usually has higher meth from what it sounds like... the winter stuff has lower (strange) the de-icer crap...

[1FastCSX289]

Well i am not using WF, but denatured alcoholm which is working GREAT by the way :)

I use to use the *something* blue, not sure on the name :/. That was what i was using when i was running 27PSI.

The washer fluid seemed to work ok.

Do you just mixed denatured alcohol and water 50/50?

[turbovanman²]

You want the blue winter stuff, its almost 50/50.

[1FastCSX289]

You want the blue winter stuff, its almost 50/50.

Is that a brand? "Blue Winter" or do I just want the blue stuff with a winter rating? If its a brand, any idea where you can buy it?

[JDAWG]

You probably want the blue specific to winter. Atleast thats how we mix ours from concentrate in the winter, in the summer its more like 70/30, mostly water.

[1FastCSX289]

You probably want the blue specific to winter. Atleast thats how we mix ours from concentrate in the winter, in the summer its more like 70/30, mostly water.


Can you still get the winter stuff in the summer?

[mark]

i saw somewhere some shop in buggalo selling 55 gallons of meth. of you got bunch of us into it it would work out good...

how large is your resiviour? and did you do trunk mount or engine compartment?

[turbovanman²]

Is that a brand? "Blue Winter" or do I just want the blue stuff with a winter rating? If its a brand, any idea where you can buy it?

Hahhaa, you want the "blue coloured" winter aka cold season fluid. The summer stuff is pink and has much less.


Can you still get the winter stuff in the summer?

Mostly no, last summer, I managed to find a few cases of old stock. You can also buy "boost juice" from Snow Performance its 50/50 but at $10 a jug, expensive.

Phone some speed shops, you can buy straight methanol, I have a source here but was happy with my windshield washer stuff.

[1FastCSX289]

i saw somewhere some shop in buggalo selling 55 gallons of meth. of you got bunch of us into it it would work out good...

how large is your resiviour? and did you do trunk mount or engine compartment?


Im just using the stock washer fluid bottle.

[Aries_Turbo]

advance autoparts in geneseo had the blue stuff for sale for 98cents a gal and they had a large stock of it. i bought 5-gallons of it :)

Brian

[overlordsshadow]

I am just using some plain jane washer fluid mixed half with some 99.9% methyl hydrate from Canadian Tire. Works good, you can really see the difference on the a/f, just don't use as a sub for fuel!

[shelby zed]

ive heard the canadian tire stuff is good too

[slasky]

ive heard the canadian tire stuff is good too
He is going to be mad now. He is up in Canada right now and probably won't see this until he gets back.

[overlordsshadow]

hahaha

[1FastCSX289]

I am just using some plain jane washer fluid mixed half with some 99.9% methyl hydrate from Canadian Tire. Works good, you can really see the difference on the a/f, just don't use as a sub for fuel!

What do you mean you see the difference in the A/F ratio? Is it richer? How does the alky and water register on the O2 sensor?

Yea, I just got back from Canada:banghead:

[overlordsshadow]

It was richer with the big blast of alky but not rich enough to compensate for my stupidity of puttin in the new fuel pump wrong:(

[Dave]

I used just winter grade washer fluid. It will say -25 or -30* F. I just call it winter blue, because it's for winter time and it's blue. :) I'm not sure if it's a real brand. I've ran 23psi on this with a 7GPH jet, it was a tad leaner than I like at 12.2:1. I need a larger jet.

[Aries_Turbo]

sean, how did the trip go? take the van or get the truck?

Bryan, be careful and check the plugs to make sure that cyl +4 doesnt lean out in case the alky spray overshoots it some.

Brian

[1FastCSX289]

sean, how did the trip go? take the van or get the truck?

Bryan, be careful and check the plugs to make sure that cyl +4 doesnt lean out in case the alky spray overshoots it some.

Brian


I borrowed my dads truck. It went fine except that we lost a night (we stayed with my folks and got up early the next morning). ||I actually broke a weld on passenger side, but I got it all welded up with extra reinforcements so that should be good to go.

[Aries_Turbo]

good too hear that it worked out well. sorry that I had the proper yoke that you needed. oh well.

back to windshield washer fluid lol.

Brian

[slasky]

I actually broke a weld on passenger side, but I got it all welded up with extra reinforcements so that should be good to go.
At least you did not blow the welds on the intake manifold.

[1FastCSX289]

At least you did not blow the welds on the intake manifold.

My cousin did that on his v-tec when his hit the nawz though. So, thats no laughing matter either. Luckily, he still ran a 16.8 in the 1/4.

[JDAWG]

My cousin did that on his v-tec when his hit the nawz though. So, thats no laughing matter either. Luckily, he still ran a 16.8 in the 1/4.

The V-ery T-all E-ngine C-ooling will get you every time!

[Dave]

My floorboard even came flying out when I hit the naaww--... washer fluid. :(

[Birddog]

Farm supply joints can usually point you in the right direction for cheap Methanol.

[Spraynlog]

I'm gonna cast my vote for using DENATURED ALCOHOL. You can buy it by the gallon and mix it 50/50 with distilled water. It is hard to tell what you are getting with the washer mixes. But the biggest reason for using it is the health issues involved when using METHANOL. Methanol is quite hazardous, and known to attack the central nervous system. You need to avoid getting it on you, or breathing the vapors. If you are skeptical of this, do a google search and look up MSDS for Methanol. Material Safety Data Sheets will list health hazards, and levels of protective equipment required for safe use. Compare methanol with denatured alcohol, and you will see what I mean! I have worked at a chemical plant for the last 20+ years, and I use chemical suits/respirators and protective gear on a regular basis. Stay healthy! Use Denatured alcohol.

[Subliminal]

Gas stations usually have that stuff round these parts.

I've got two 1/2 empty bottles I'll let go for...$50/shipped. ;)

[1FastCSX289]

I'm gonna cast my vote for using DENATURED ALCOHOL. You can buy it by the gallon and mix it 50/50 with distilled water. It is hard to tell what you are getting with the washer mixes. But the biggest reason for using it is the health issues involved when using METHANOL. Methanol is quite hazardous, and known to attack the central nervous system. You need to avoid getting it on you, or breathing the vapors. If you are skeptical of this, do a google search and look up MSDS for Methanol. Material Safety Data Sheets will list health hazards, and levels of protective equipment required for safe use. Compare methanol with denatured alcohol, and you will see what I mean! I have worked at a chemical plant for the last 20+ years, and I use chemical suits/respirators and protective gear on a regular basis. Stay healthy! Use Denatured alcohol.

So I probably shouldnt have sucked the washer fluid through the lines while I was trying to prime the pump? I didnt swallow, but I got a mouthful. :yuck:

[Anonymous_User]

I didnt swallow, but I got a mouthful.


Uh...... no comment.

[slasky]

I didnt swallow, but I got a mouthful. :yuck:
Did this happen at one of the county parks????

[1FastCSX289]

Did this happen at one of the county parks????


Uh...... no comment.

You guys should get together. You seem to think along the same (gay) lines. :lol: :lol:

[mcsvt]

Hmm... didn't really know that about Meth... I used to work in an Express Lube and we mixed our own washer fluid. We had to transfer the Meth from a 55 gal. drum upstairs via a hose to the basement. I had that stuff all over me. I seem to be ok for now :)

[overlordsshadow]

Doesn't eminate much of a smell. Then i put my nose right in the top of the bottle and took a wiff..... Ya it has a smell, so never put your nose right in a jug of pure alky.

[Spraynlog]

So I probably shouldnt have sucked the washer fluid through the lines while I was trying to prime the pump? I didnt swallow, but I got a mouthful. :yuck:
Comenius - European Cooperation on School Education
Hands-on Science (H-Sci) Project: Chemical Safety Database

Chemical Safety Data: Methanol

Hazard: toxic Hazard: highly flammable


Common synonyms


Methyl alcohol, wood alcohol, meths

Formula


CH3OH

Physical properties


Form: colourless liquid with a characteristic smell
Stability: Stable, but very flammable
Melting point: -98 C
Boiling point: 64.7 C
Flash point: 11 C
Explosion limits 6% - 36%
Water solubility: miscible in all proportions
Specific gravity: 0.79

Principal hazards


*** Methanol is toxic. If ingested or inhaled it can cause a wide range of harmful effects, from sickness, heart and liver damage to reproductive harm, blindess or death.
*** Methanol is often a component in "bootleg" liquor (illegally brewed and distilled alcohol) and there have been numerous cases in the past in which the consumption of such a drink has been fatal.
*** Methanol is very flammable. The pure liquid catches fire easily and aqueous solutions containing a significant amount of methanol can also catch fire.
*** The flame above burning methanol is virtually invisible, so it is not always easy to tell whether a methanol flame is still alight.
*** The explosion limits for methanol (the lower and upper percentage limits of methanol in an air-methanol mixture giving a vapour that can explode) are unusually wide.

Safe handling


Always wear safety glasses.
Remove any source of ignition from the working area. Don't forget that a hot air gun, a hot plate or even a radiator may be sufficiently hot to ignite the vapour.
You should not breathe in the vapour, so use a fume cupboard if available. If this is not possible, ensure that the area in which you work is very well ventilated.

Emergency


Eye contact: Immediately flush the eye with plenty of water. Continue for several minutes and call for medical help.
Skin contact: A person whose clothes are soaked in methanol will be at serious risk from fire, so immediately remove any contaminated clothing and store well away from a source of ignition (preferably outside). Wash exposed skin with soap and water. If the skin reddens or appears damaged, or if methanol may have been swallowed, call for medical aid.
If swallowed: Call for immediate medical help; if the quantity swallowed is significant urgent medical action is vital.

Disposal


Trace amounts of methanol can be flushed down a sink with a large quantity of water, unless local rules prohibit this. Larger amounts should be collected in a non-chlorinated waste solvent container for disposal.

Protective equipment


Safety glasses. If you need gloves, butyl rubber is a suitable material.

Further information


Methanol
Chemicals in the HSci database
More extensive safety data

Link to the Oxford HSci web site
We have tried to make this information as accurate and useful as possible, but can take no responsibility for its use, misuse, or accuracy. We have not verified this information, and cannot guarantee that it is up-to-date.
Oxford, January 8, 2004

I copied this MSDS at random from a google search. As you can see, it is a very poor idea to mouth siphon methanol.

[overlordsshadow]

But I like the buzz.

[Spraynlog]

But I like the buzz.

It's your decision. I just provided information to help make a good one.:nod:

[mario03SRT]

Guys,

If you want to use over the counter washer fluid only use the types that are Blue and clearly state that it contains methonal. Avoid any types that have cleaners and antifreeze etc. It will say that it is rated either -20 or -30 degree rated. Most guys use 1 bottle of Heet Yellow (meth) in 1 gallon of -20washer fluid. Most -20 washer fluid is 30% meth.

The optimum solution is a 50/50 mix of distilled water/methonal. I use Sunoco Race Methonal. Be sure to use the pure Meth and not the type used in Alky engines as these have additives which are detrimental to the pump seal etc.

FYI,
Marion

[Dave]

Guys,

If you want to use over the counter washer fluid only use the types that are Blue and clearly state that it contains methonal. Avoid any types that have cleaners and antifreeze etc. It will say that it is rated either -20 or -30 degree rated. Most guys use 1 bottle of Heet Yellow (meth) in 1 gallon of -20washer fluid. Most -20 washer fluid is 30% meth.

The optimum solution is a 50/50 mix of distilled water/methonal. I use Sunoco Race Methonal. Be sure to use the pure Meth and not the type used in Alky engines as these have additives which are detrimental to the pump seal etc.

FYI,
Marion


I've never heard of Heet Yellow, what is that?

[MiniMopar]

It's the stuff you put in your gas tank in the winter to absorb moisture. It's called "HEET" and it's in a small yellow container. He says yellow because the other type of "HEET" comes in a red container and uses isopropyl alcohol and that's not what you want.

The only problem with HEET is that it's not the most cost effective way to buy meth in large quantities. I've seen it sold in packs of 6, but I'm sure it can be had for less.

[mario03SRT]

I've never heard of Heet Yellow, what is that?

Dave,

It's methonal is a small bottle used for water removal in fuel lines and tanks.

FYI,
Marion

[Dave]

Here's some thought-provoking information. Wallace White and I emptied my tank of the washer fluid and installed pure M3 Methanol. At 22psi my A/F was at 11.2:1 with the washer fluid. On the M3 Meth, still at 22psi it was missing quite heavily and I maxed out my gauge at 10:1, though it could've been richer.

I had the single stage 7GPH jet coming on at 15psi, I had to retard it back to activate at 18psi to let the boost catch up.

Stuff is very potent and I have to say, I will never go back to washer fluid. Wallace said I can go to http://www.vpracingfuels.com/index2.html and find a local dealer then purchase the Meth straight from them. I wont be buying the M3 meth as it's very expensive, the straight form methanol will do plenty for my goals. :nod:

BTW we came to the conclusion that it richened my mixture due to the fact that I am litterally injecting twice as much methanol then the washer fluid, causing it to burn up all the oxygen. Makes sense, no?

EDIT: I have no VP dealers remotely close to me, guess I'll be looking through home depot. :(

[overlordsshadow]

The meth injection kits work very well and the winter wash fluid has been helping me kick A$$

[Spraynlog]

Here's some thought-provoking information. Wallace White and I emptied my tank of the washer fluid and installed pure M3 Methanol. At 22psi my A/F was at 11.2:1 with the washer fluid. On the M3 Meth, still at 22psi it was missing quite heavily and I maxed out my gauge at 10:1, though it could've been richer.

I had the single stage 7GPH jet coming on at 15psi, I had to retard it back to activate at 18psi to let the boost catch up.

Stuff is very potent and I have to say, I will never go back to washer fluid. Wallace said I can go to http://www.vpracingfuels.com/index2.html and find a local dealer then purchase the Meth straight from them. I wont be buying the M3 meth as it's very expensive, the straight form methanol will do plenty for my goals. :nod:

BTW we came to the conclusion that it richened my mixture due to the fact that I am litterally injecting twice as much methanol then the washer fluid, causing it to burn up all the oxygen. Makes sense, no?

EDIT: I have no VP dealers remotely close to me, guess I'll be looking through home depot. :(

I don't mean to come across as the boards' worry wart, but where is the tank mounted? Under the hood? On page 2 of this thread, I posted an 'MSDS' sheet for methanol. The flash point is only 11 degrees C, the vapors are explosive over an unusually large range, easily ignited and burns with a flame that is hard to see. How hot does it get under your hood on a summer day? Your guardian angel told me to post this....:lol:

[overlordsshadow]

Well on that note mine is using the stock wash fluid bottle for now. But I'm using it heavily since I am babying the motor right now. Thinking I may get a bigger cottle and put it in the pass fender area.

[mario03SRT]

Here's some thought-provoking information. Wallace White and I emptied my tank of the washer fluid and installed pure M3 Methanol. At 22psi my A/F was at 11.2:1 with the washer fluid. On the M3 Meth, still at 22psi it was missing quite heavily and I maxed out my gauge at 10:1, though it could've been richer.

I had the single stage 7GPH jet coming on at 15psi, I had to retard it back to activate at 18psi to let the boost catch up.

Stuff is very potent and I have to say, I will never go back to washer fluid. Wallace said I can go to http://www.vpracingfuels.com/index2.html and find a local dealer then purchase the Meth straight from them. I wont be buying the M3 meth as it's very expensive, the straight form methanol will do plenty for my goals. :nod:

BTW we came to the conclusion that it richened my mixture due to the fact that I am litterally injecting twice as much methanol then the washer fluid, causing it to burn up all the oxygen. Makes sense, no?

EDIT: I have no VP dealers remotely close to me, guess I'll be looking through home depot. :(

Meth has a AFR of 7 versus a AFR of 14.7 for gas. So it take twice as much meth to match the gas pulled. And therefore the AFR drops as the meth is increased. Alky cars have to injest large (twice) amount of fuel to run. A properly setup gasoline car will see a .5 decrease in AFR. 50/50 is the optimum arrangement for detonation prevention and octane increase.

You are not improving your performance and are damaging internal pump (etc)components and taking a huge safety risk. Don't use the system to account for a low output fuel pump or small injectors either.

FYI,
Marion

[1FastCSX289]

You are not improving your performance and are damaging internal pump (etc)components and taking a huge safety risk. Don't use the system to account for a low output fuel pump or small injectors either.


SO you think its better to run washer fluid over straight meth? And a 50/50 mix of straight meth and water would be better than washer fluid?

A final question......

At the track on tuesday, I was running an M7 nozzle on a devilsown progressive kit. All the alky was in by 18-20 PSI, which is where my boost was set for the day. When i look at my datalog, the intake temps drop like a rock at first (95*) and then steadily climb as I enter 3rd and 4th gear until they are at about 120*. Does this mean I need a larger jet?

[mario03SRT]

SO you think its better to run washer fluid over straight meth? And a 50/50 mix of straight meth and water would be better than washer fluid?

A bottle of Heet in a jug of -20 washer fluid shows good results over just a jug straight. If you have the Meth just cut it 50% with distilled water from the grocery for THE optimum solution.

A final question......

At the track on tuesday, I was running an M7 nozzle on a devilsown progressive kit. All the alky was in by 18-20 PSI, which is where my boost was set for the day. When i look at my datalog, the intake temps drop like a rock at first (95*) and then steadily climb as I enter 3rd and 4th gear until they are at about 120*. Does this mean I need a larger jet?

Do you have thier progressive controller or a single stage? A couple of rules of thumb is to start the spray as soon as possible without a bog or backfire. More specifically Snow suggests initiating the spray at the boost level noted at approx 3000 rpm. Myself I initiate my spray on my SRT at 5-6 psi of boost and will do so again on my Daytona.

As you ramp up in 3rd/4th gear more boost is being made for a longer duration than 2nd gear so more heat is generated as a result. Another question also to ask is where is your IAT gathered from before or after the nozzle? You may be only measuring the ability of your fmic to pull heat and not the cooler air charge from the water/meth.

Technically, Nozzle selection is determined on the HP of the motor and the amount of fuel needed to support that HP. 15% of your fuel consumption at WOT is the general rule.

To summarize: Try to use a progressive controller, spray sooner, a M7 nozzle is good for a 350 hp motor easy, use 50/50 mix, monitor knock, monitor afr, and read the IAT after the nozzle if you want that data for the effect of the spray.
FYI,
Marion

[Dave]

Hm, well all I can say is at 24psi with the plain washer fluid vs 20psi of the M3 Methanol content it pulled much harder, even with Wallace's butt in the passenger seat. :thumb:

The methanol sits full in a sealed container. I would imagine it wont ignite with ambient heat and no oxygen.

I like the way it functions now and I feel a tad safer surpressing knock now. Not saying I don't believe you, Mario, it's just Wallace is a very convincing guy and I saw/felt the results.

Washer fluid just plain sucks...

[mario03SRT]

Hm, well all I can say is at 24psi with the plain washer fluid vs 20psi of the M3 Methanol content it pulled much harder, even with Wallace's butt in the passenger seat. :thumb:

The methanol sits full in a sealed container. I would imagine it wont ignite with ambient heat and no oxygen.

I like the way it functions now and I feel a tad safer surpressing knock now. Not saying I don't believe you, Mario, it's just Wallace is a very convincing guy and I saw/felt the results.

Washer fluid just plain sucks...

Well there is a significant octane difference betwen the 2. Methonal is around 118 octane. I personnally do not use or prefer the washer fluid. But if some want to there is a best way to do it. :thumb:

Also it is important to note that water is 600% more efficient in extracting heat than gas and 300% more efficienct than pure methonal. Thats is another reason to use the 50/50 solution.

FYI,
Marion

[boost geek]

I bought a gallon of Methyl Hydrate at Lordco today, gonna give it a try with water. It's 99.9* pure methanol.:D

[Dave]

Also it is important to note that water is 600% more efficient in extracting heat than gas and 300% more efficienct than pure methonal. Thats is another reason to use the 50/50 solution.

FYI,
Marion

Well first, where did you get those percentages? Not saying you're lying I just would like to know. Now, water may indeed be more effective in absorbing and extracting heat from the air charge, but does it have the ability to slow the combustion process? I realize water has a higher efficiency to carry heat and that fact alone will help reduce detonation, but methanol will be able to produce more HP in a back to back test as it burns slower and still has the ability to cool the charge. Methanol can also act as a means for additional fuel, whereas water cannot.

I see where you're coming from in trying to get the best from both by diluting (sp) the methanol to a 50/50 mixture. I'll need to see some hard evidence before I change my mind on my injection mixture.

[1FastCSX289]

SO you think its better to run washer fluid over straight meth? And a 50/50 mix of straight meth and water would be better than washer fluid?

A bottle of Heet in a jug of -20 washer fluid shows good results over just a jug straight. If you have the Meth just cut it 50% with distilled water from the grocery for THE optimum solution.

A final question......

At the track on tuesday, I was running an M7 nozzle on a devilsown progressive kit. All the alky was in by 18-20 PSI, which is where my boost was set for the day. When i look at my datalog, the intake temps drop like a rock at first (95*) and then steadily climb as I enter 3rd and 4th gear until they are at about 120*. Does this mean I need a larger jet?

Do you have thier progressive controller or a single stage? A couple of rules of thumb is to start the spray as soon as possible without a bog or backfire. More specifically Snow suggests initiating the spray at the boost level noted at approx 3000 rpm. Myself I initiate my spray on my SRT at 5-6 psi of boost and will do so again on my Daytona.

As you ramp up in 3rd/4th gear more boost is being made for a longer duration than 2nd gear so more heat is generated as a result. Another question also to ask is where is your IAT gathered from before or after the nozzle? You may be only measuring the ability of your fmic to pull heat and not the cooler air charge from the water/meth.

Technically, Nozzle selection is determined on the HP of the motor and the amount of fuel needed to support that HP. 15% of your fuel consumption at WOT is the general rule.

To summarize: Try to use a progressive controller, spray sooner, a M7 nozzle is good for a 350 hp motor easy, use 50/50 mix, monitor knock, monitor afr, and read the IAT after the nozzle if you want that data for the effect of the spray.
FYI,
Marion

THanks for your reply. THis is good information.

I am measuring in the intake plenum AFTER the nozzle and I am running a progressive controller. It comes in around 8-9 PSI. I dont know how bringing it in earlier will help cool the charge anymore. The charge is already real cool at lower boost levels and even high boost levels through 2nd gear. It starts to heat up after the meth has reached its maximum flow rate. Wont a larger jet and a flatter curve be the answer? THe motor may be approaching the 350 HP mark......at that boost level 18-20, on a super hot, 95+ degree day, it was trapping around 108.

[Dave]

THanks for your reply. THis is good information.

I am measuring in the intake plenum AFTER the nozzle and I am running a progressive controller. It comes in around 8-9 PSI. I dont know how bringing it in earlier will help cool the charge anymore. The charge is already real cool at lower boost levels and even high boost levels through 2nd gear. It starts to heat up after the meth has reached its maximum flow rate. Wont a larger jet and a flatter curve be the answer? THe motor may be approaching the 350 HP mark......at that boost level 18-20, on a super hot, 95+ degree day, it was trapping around 108.

The cooler the charge ultimately the more power will be made. More power at the low end is certainly always a good thing, unless you can't hook. Think of it as starting your powerband earlier.

Mario I have to note some results I've found since doing a little late night tuning yesterday. At 19psi with no meth I was sitting at a steady 12.3:1. At 19psi with the methanol it fell on its face rich at 10.1:1. :yuck: I attempted to play around with both variables to try to make 11.5:1 but I couldn't do it. It was either a tad lean or super rich. I retarded the meth to open at 15psi and the A/F then shot to 11.3:1 but I lost 3psi due to the fact it wasn't making complete combustion to achieve any higher boost from that point.

I think I may have only two options.
1. Dilute the mixture to a 50/50 to reduce its lengthy burn time
2. Buy a rising rate pressure switch to give the turbo time to produce boost in a rate equivilant to that of the meth volume

I'm using the 7GPH jet. I think using anything lower would be pointless at my boost level. I was able to run 24psi before on the winter grade washer fluid no problem, but this stuff is much more powerful and I feel much safer using it.

[Dave]

I don't mean to come across as the boards' worry wart, but where is the tank mounted? Under the hood? On page 2 of this thread, I posted an 'MSDS' sheet for methanol. The flash point is only 11 degrees C, the vapors are explosive over an unusually large range, easily ignited and burns with a flame that is hard to see. How hot does it get under your hood on a summer day? Your guardian angel told me to post this....:lol:

Just wanted to clear up some confusion on this. Not to call you out, but I don't want folks living in fear. This is a direct fact from a MSDS site http://www.bu.edu/es/labsafety/ESMSDSs/MSMethanol.html

Autoignition Temperature: 455 deg C ( 851.00 deg F)
Flash Point: 12 deg C ( 53.60 deg F)
NFPA Rating: health-1; flammability-3; reactivity-0
Explosion Limits, Lower: 6.00 vol %
Upper: 31.00 vol %

So what does this mean? Well Spraynlog is right about the flash point being only 53*F/11*C. A flash point is the continuation of burn-time after ignition. Meaning it will still burn over 53*F after it has been ignited.

The difference in my findings are the autoignition temp. 851*F, which does occure in a 4 stroke engine. ;) EGT's are commonly at 1,300-1,800*F on a typcial gasoline engine. AutoIg. Temp. is the lowest point that it CAN be ignited. So in a nutshell this means that my 4qt bottle of pure meth wont ignite by itself unless I can get my underhood temperature over 851*F.

BTW I love the smell of this shiit! :D

[Dave]

I don't mean to come across as the boards' worry wart, but where is the tank mounted? Under the hood? On page 2 of this thread, I posted an 'MSDS' sheet for methanol. The flash point is only 11 degrees C, the vapors are explosive over an unusually large range, easily ignited and burns with a flame that is hard to see. How hot does it get under your hood on a summer day? Your guardian angel told me to post this....:lol:

Just wanted to clear up some confusion on this. Not to call you out, but I don't want folks living in fear. This is a direct fact from a MSDS site http://www.bu.edu/es/labsafety/ESMSDSs/MSMethanol.html

Autoignition Temperature: 455 deg C ( 851.00 deg F)
Flash Point: 12 deg C ( 53.60 deg F)
NFPA Rating: health-1; flammability-3; reactivity-0
Explosion Limits, Lower: 6.00 vol %
Upper: 31.00 vol %

So what does this mean? Well Spraynlog is right about the flash point being only 53*F/11*C. A flash point is the continuation of burn-time after ignition. Meaning it will still burn over 53*F after it has been ignited.

The difference in my findings are the autoignition temp. 851*F, which does occure in a 4 stroke engine. ;) EGT's are commonly at 1,300-1,800*F on a typcial gasoline engine. AutoIg. Temp. is the lowest point that it CAN be ignited. So in a nutshell this means that my 4qt bottle of pure meth wont ignite by itself unless I can get my underhood temperature over 851*F.

BTW I love the smell of this shiit! :D

[Spraynlog]

Just wanted to clear up some confusion on this. Not to call you out, but I don't want folks living in fear. This is a direct fact from a MSDS site http://www.bu.edu/es/labsafety/ESMSDSs/MSMethanol.html

Autoignition Temperature: 455 deg C ( 851.00 deg F)
Flash Point: 12 deg C ( 53.60 deg F)
NFPA Rating: health-1; flammability-3; reactivity-0
Explosion Limits, Lower: 6.00 vol %
Upper: 31.00 vol %

So what does this mean? Well Spraynlog is right about the flash point being only 53*F/11*C. A flash point is the continuation of burn-time after ignition. Meaning it will still burn over 53*F after it has been ignited.

The difference in my findings are the autoignition temp. 851*F, which does occure in a 4 stroke engine. ;) EGT's are commonly at 1,300-1,800*F on a typcial gasoline engine. AutoIg. Temp. is the lowest point that it CAN be ignited. So in a nutshell this means that my 4qt bottle of pure meth wont ignite by itself unless I can get my underhood temperature over 851*F.

BTW I love the smell of this shiit! :D
Thanks for looking at the MSDS! They are a very good source of info. I probably didn't explain myself well enough. Here is the scenario I can see easily happening. 1. The boiling point of meth is 67.4 C, or 155 F. Easy to boil it with underhood temps. It starts boiling, creating pressure in your container. Vapors are released underhood. The ignition temp is 851 F, it doesn't require an open flame, just a surface temp that hot...like an exhaust manifold. The vapor ignites and your car is on fire.

It would be a better idea to use a 50/50 mix, as this will raise the boiling point, and likely the vapor ignition point as well.

I understand the autoignition point to be the point where the vapor ignites and carries a flame back to the surface of the liquid.

You indicate enjoying the smell. Did you read what inhaling the vapor will do to you?

[Dave]

Thanks for looking at the MSDS! They are a very good source of info. I probably didn't explain myself well enough. Here is the scenario I can see easily happening. 1. The boiling point of meth is 67.4 C, or 155 F. Easy to boil it with underhood temps. It starts boiling, creating pressure in your container. Vapors are released underhood. The ignition temp is 851 F, it doesn't require an open flame, just a surface temp that hot...like an exhaust manifold. The vapor ignites and your car is on fire.

It would be a better idea to use a 50/50 mix, as this will raise the boiling point, and likely the vapor ignition point as well.

I understand the autoignition point to be the point where the vapor ignites and carries a flame back to the surface of the liquid.

You indicate enjoying the smell. Did you read what inhaling the vapor will do to you?

Good example of a hazardous scenario... I'm sure once going past 45mph (meth kicks on at 15psi) the passing air will pick up the vapor and extract it. I'm not concerned, although I probally should be.

[johnl]

Thanks for looking at the MSDS! They are a very good source of info. I probably didn't explain myself well enough. Here is the scenario I can see easily happening. 1. The boiling point of meth is 67.4 C, or 155 F. Easy to boil it with underhood temps. It starts boiling, creating pressure in your container. Vapors are released underhood. The ignition temp is 851 F, it doesn't require an open flame, just a surface temp that hot...like an exhaust manifold. The vapor ignites and your car is on fire.

It would be a better idea to use a 50/50 mix, as this will raise the boiling point, and likely the vapor ignition point as well.

I understand the autoignition point to be the point where the vapor ignites and carries a flame back to the surface of the liquid.

You indicate enjoying the smell. Did you read what inhaling the vapor will do to you?


Off topic but . . . . about a hundred years ago, the pioneers of the auto industry had to choose - gasoline or alcohol. The above states some of the reasons why gasoline won. Gasoline is safer. It also packs more energy per volume - smaller gas tank.

[mario03SRT]

Off topic but . . . . about a hundred years ago, the pioneers of the auto industry had to choose - gasoline or alcohol. The above states some of the reasons why gasoline won. Gasoline is safer. It also packs more energy per volume - smaller gas tank.

It takes 2 gallons of alky to get the power of 1 gal of gas. Can you say Big --- fuel Cell...............:amen:

Not to mention the Rockefellers and Standard Oil having some influence on the situation way back when.:yuck:

FYI,
Marion