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View Full Version : Help! Spirit R/T which shifter cables fit?



Tony Hanna
05-11-2007, 12:40 PM
After finishing up with the radiator, I took the title for the Spirit to the DMV and got a set of tags, so it's now insured and licensed. With only one thing left to do before it's completely legal. The dreaded state inspection... Now I haven't been to bed since I climbed out of it yesterday morning, so I was really looking forward to either getting an inspection sticker or at least a list of what needs done to pass so I could come home and go to bed. Well, fate was having none of it. Just as I turned onto the road to the inspection station, the shifter cable broke.:banghead: Anyhow, to make a long story longer, I managed to lose my arm in the mess of crap underhood and get the trans shifted into gear so I could limp it home. Now here it sits. The Sundance is still up at John's, so the Spirit is my only legal means of transportation. I need to get it fixed quickly. So, if I can wrangle a ride to a junkyard, what cars have a cable that will be the right length for a Spirit with the right end for a 568? I'm guessing anything 568 or 523 (or a Neon?) will have the right ends, it's the length I'm not too sure about.
Thanks in advance,
Tony

Blue Iroc R/T
05-11-2007, 01:08 PM
Sorry, I can't answer what all might be compatable for length, but are you sure the cable it broke? Could it just be that you lost one of the "U" clips at the bracket on the Tranny? Or the gromet bushing on the cable end? I can't get to my web site from here at work, but I have a pic of the cables & Clips on my site. From the main page www.pbase.com/rmscott, go down to the third row (maybe (4th) on the left hand side. Click on the Parts gallery. Then Click on the Dark Blue FSM gallery. Then look fo the page for the TIII Shifter linkage. Sorry, I can't drop you a direct link right now.

mcsvt
05-11-2007, 01:09 PM
I think your right on with the 568/523. I don't think you will run into length issues.

Only thing I wonder is if the cables from a V6 mani will work... 543?

Edit:
Ralph is right, make sure it didn't just come off somewhere first.

Tony Hanna
05-11-2007, 01:15 PM
Thanks guys, but I'm pretty sure it broke. The end of the cable is laying in the driver side rear floorboard.;)

92spiritrt
05-11-2007, 01:26 PM
i got a brand new cable from napa in sept 06 for i think $55. they fit beautifly and they got them the next day for me. if you are putting them in i would recomend putting in the urethane bushings right away cause the stock ones have too much give and have a tendency to fall apart.

Tony Hanna
05-11-2007, 01:46 PM
Well, I talked to John earlier, and he's going to drive down and give me a ride up there tonight after he gets off work. One of the yards near where he lives had a P body or 2 with 523s. Hopefully we'll find a good cable there. If not, I guess I'll have to order one from Napa or Advance.

Fast4Ward
05-11-2007, 08:01 PM
I have one from a 568 RT if you don't find one. thnx.

Directconnection
05-11-2007, 08:31 PM
Well, I talked to John earlier, and he's going to drive down and give me a ride up there tonight after he gets off work. One of the yards near where he lives had a P body or 2 with 523s. Hopefully we'll find a good cable there. If not, I guess I'll have to order one from Napa or Advance.

Don't use the P-body cables...they are shorter.

Tony Hanna
05-11-2007, 08:35 PM
Don't use the P-body cables...they are shorter.

That's what I was afraid of. So, what am I looking for? 90+ 5 spd Daytona, Lebaron, Sprit, or Acclaim?

Tony Hanna
05-11-2007, 09:51 PM
Don't use the P-body cables...they are shorter.

How sure are you about this? The reason I'm asking is that the part # for the replacement R/T cable by Dorman is 16653 according to the alternate parts thread here. That's also the same cable that Advance lists for a '91 4cyl Shadow, as well as a '93 V6 Shadow, a '91 4cyl Daytona, and a '93 V6 Daytona.

It makes me wonder what's going on. Are there 2 different length cables and the aftermarket is only making the "long" one, or are they all the same from the factory?:confused:

Edit: Here's a list of everything this shifter cable supposedly fits from the Dorman/Motormite website. https://www.dormanproducts.com/cgi-bin/vm91corp30r/buyers_guide.w?sid=0x009f0bdf&item=16653&clt=hwrap1&vsrch_str=16653&vsrch_brand=ALL&vsrch_cat=ALL&st_amount=&end_amount=&start=&vfrom=&prev=&vnext=&category_list=:0

TurboJerry
05-12-2007, 03:29 AM
They've consolidated the part no's so 1 size fits all. (it will be extra long in a P body)The og cables are actually different though. The P bodies are by themselves, the G/J bodies are by themselves, and the AA bodies are by themselves. But The G/J body cables will fit the AA's. I've done that swap before.

Scottmon
05-12-2007, 10:41 AM
Tony, one thing you will rapidly learn about working on TIII cars: The parts books (except Chysler's) are usually wrong. Best thing is to ask around and see if anyone has purchased and physically used the part before buying one.

Directconnection
05-12-2007, 02:33 PM
Yes, I grabbed some cables from a spirit I believe it was... years back and swapping out my old P-body cables I lined up these and they were longer. I ended up using my other shadow cables I had.

Tony Hanna
05-12-2007, 05:16 PM
Well crap. I just grabbed a cable from a Pbody because that's all they had.:(
Oh well, it wasn't very expensive ($15) so it's not like I'm out much if it can't be made to work. I guess if I can't use it, I'll just order the right one.

While I'm at it, the 568 in the Spirit is making some bearing noise. The JY that I got the cable from quoted me $150 for a 523. What I'd like to do is pull the 568 before something goes seriously wrong so that I can have it freshened up when money allows. I'm curious if the 523 case has the hole, or at least a boss I can drill for the crank sensor? I didn't think to look while I was there. Also, what would I need to do for a clutch? I'm not sure if the input shaft is the same between the two or if I'll need a different disk...
I probably should have started a different thread for this, but I figured one of you guys might know.:)
Thanks,
Tony

TurboJerry
05-12-2007, 08:00 PM
There's no boss on the 523's I've seen for the CPS. Maybe there was???? I remember there always being a big deal to find an R/T specific case when it broke. (or weld it)

Tony Hanna
05-13-2007, 02:46 PM
There's no boss on the 523's I've seen for the CPS. Maybe there was???? I remember there always being a big deal to find an R/T specific case when it broke. (or weld it)

Well in that case, I wonder how hard it would be to measure the location of the CPS in the 568 and transfer the measurements to the 523 so I could drill the hole in the right location? I would imagine it would have to be fairly precise or the ignition timing would be off. Maybe I could even get creative and make an elongated slot for the sensor to make the base timing adjustable.:D

John's running some Supercoupe parts (supercharger, etc) on Ebay for me. When the auction ends, I'm going to use the money to go ahead and pick up the 523. Even if I can't use it in the R/T, it'll still be handy to have for the Sundance.:nod:

Edit: I just found a thread over on the other board about the same thing. Looks like it'll work.:thumb:
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f11/f40/94375-tiii-a523.html

TurboJerry
05-14-2007, 02:39 AM
Maybe the '92+ 523's had the CPS boss? They should hold the power also. I don't recall any real difference in the internals between the two. I know the 523 can handle a 8 valve Spirit running 12's for many passes and street miles also.

Tony Hanna
05-14-2007, 12:04 PM
Maybe the '92+ 523's had the CPS boss? They should hold the power also. I don't recall any real difference in the internals between the two. I know the 523 can handle a 8 valve Spirit running 12's for many passes and street miles also.

Well, from reading old posts on TD (the one I linked to and others), it looks like all 523's 'should' have the boss there, just undrilled. Neil Emiro mentioned that even some of the 555's have it as well. I confirmed this on the 555 that came out of John's Daytona. I also saw where Cliff R. mentioned that the 523 and 568 share the same case. Taking that into account, it makes sense to me that the 523 would have the boss too. It wouldn't make sense from a cost perspective to cast 2 seperate cases one with the boss and one without.

Directconnection
05-14-2007, 12:33 PM
Well crap. I just grabbed a cable from a Pbody because that's all they had.:(
Oh well, it wasn't very expensive ($15) so it's not like I'm out much if it can't be made to work. I guess if I can't use it, I'll just order the right one.

While I'm at it, the 568 in the Spirit is making some bearing noise. The JY that I got the cable from quoted me $150 for a 523. What I'd like to do is pull the 568 before something goes seriously wrong so that I can have it freshened up when money allows. I'm curious if the 523 case has the hole, or at least a boss I can drill for the crank sensor? I didn't think to look while I was there. Also, what would I need to do for a clutch? I'm not sure if the input shaft is the same between the two or if I'll need a different disk...
I probably should have started a different thread for this, but I figured one of you guys might know.:)
Thanks,
Tony

Smart move. Most people choose to keep running it and then when the poop hits the fan, they blame the car.

I heard that there is indeed the boss on the 523 for the crank sensor. Cliff Ramsdell can elaborate but he's not online much.

Tony Hanna
05-14-2007, 12:43 PM
Smart move. Most people choose to keep running it and then when the poop hits the fan, they blame the car.

I heard that there is indeed the boss on the 523 for the crank sensor. Cliff Ramsdell can elaborate but he's not online much.

Thanks Steve!
It'd be hard for me to blame a car with close to 200,000 miles on the clock. The way I see it, it's done it's job well, and is deserving of some much needed TLC.:nod:
From reading through some old posts on TD, iTurbo was looking into a swap like this a couple years ago. I didn't see if he ended up doing it though. I PM'ed him a link to this thread. Hopefully he'll fill us in on the details.:)

mcsvt
05-14-2007, 12:56 PM
I think Cliff is going to be "offline" until the end of the month, ~22nd. Just a warning. You may want to PM Chris for a quicker response.

Tony Hanna
05-14-2007, 01:12 PM
I think Cliff is going to be "offline" until the end of the month, ~22nd. Just a warning. You may want to PM Chris for a quicker response.

Thanks Gary, but I honestly don't know if this is anything worth bothering the Ramsdell's over. I honestly think it's just going to be a matter of measuring the location of the hole on the 568 and drilling the 523 case in the same spot. I might build a jig to help get it exactly right if it's necessary, but more likely I'll just measure the location of the hole on the 568 and drill the hole in the 523 based on that.:)

Directconnection
05-14-2007, 06:10 PM
I'd get it exact as you can. The timing can vary if it thinks TDC is actually just a couple degrees off. A jig is a good idea.

Directconnection
05-14-2007, 06:12 PM
The was someone on the mailing lists and on TD a few years ago that I used to chat with often out of NY. I think his name was Ed Hollander? He had an R/T with cracked case that was swapped out for a 523 and someone drilled/tapped the case. Moparturbo I think was his username on TD.

Tony Hanna
05-14-2007, 06:27 PM
Thanks Steve. I'll probably go ahead and build a jig then.
Back on the shifter cables for a moment... The Shadow cable was actually just a hair longer than the Spirit cable. I have no idea why, but I'm not complaining. It fits like a glove. Now I just need to figure out something for a bushing on the trans side. The other cable had some sort of shim driven into it and was using the same size bushing as the shifter end. I'd rather go with the right size bushing if I could, but I need to figure out where to get one.

TurboJerry
05-15-2007, 12:59 AM
Well, from reading old posts on TD (the one I linked to and others), it looks like all 523's 'should' have the boss there, just undrilled. Neil Emiro mentioned that even some of the 555's have it as well. I confirmed this on the 555 that came out of John's Daytona. I also saw where Cliff R. mentioned that the 523 and 568 share the same case. Taking that into account, it makes sense to me that the 523 would have the boss too. It wouldn't make sense from a cost perspective to cast 2 seperate cases one with the boss and one without.

I thought the 523 came out before the T-III engine. I should look again because I know of 2 that I thought didn't have it. I've never heard of a 555 that had it either. The weird part is "the book" shows 1 part no for a 520/555 case, and 2 for the 523/568. And a third for the 543. I hope you're right, because the 523's are alot easier to find. I just located the jig off the 2 bellhousing bolt holes, and the timing was the same as before. (that was a non R/T 568 case I did in the past) I guess a boss could be welded on also. The depth would be easy to figure out.

Tony Hanna
05-15-2007, 02:09 AM
I thought the 523 came out before the T-III engine. I should look again because I know of 2 that I thought didn't have it. I've never heard of a 555 that had it either. The weird part is "the book" shows 1 part no for a 520/555 case, and 2 for the 523/568. And a third for the 543. I hope you're right, because the 523's are alot easier to find. I just located the jig off the 2 bellhousing bolt holes, and the timing was the same as before. (that was a non R/T 568 case I did in the past) I guess a boss could be welded on also. The depth would be easy to figure out.

I honestly don't know at this point, I'm just going by what was said by others. I do know of at least one 555 (John's) that has a boss in the proper location. I just wish I'd taken the time to look at that 523 in the junkyard a little closer.
However it works out, it shouldn't be too hard to do. Even if there isn't a boss there it would still just be a matter of drilling the hole in the right spot. Like you said, the depth would be easy to figure out. I'm thinking just measure the depth the sensor comes through inside the bellhousing on the 568. Assuming the bellhousing would be a little thinner without a boss there, it would simply be a matter of shimming under the sensor (washers on the hold down bolt between the sensor and bellhousing) until the depth was right.
I'll know more when the Ebay stuff sells and I have the money to grab the trans.
Thanks,
Tony

TurboJerry
05-17-2007, 02:07 AM
I honestly don't know at this point, I'm just going by what was said by others. I do know of at least one 555 (John's) that has a boss in the proper location. I just wish I'd taken the time to look at that 523 in the junkyard a little closer.
However it works out, it shouldn't be too hard to do. Even if there isn't a boss there it would still just be a matter of drilling the hole in the right spot. Like you said, the depth would be easy to figure out. I'm thinking just measure the depth the sensor comes through inside the bellhousing on the 568. Assuming the bellhousing would be a little thinner without a boss there, it would simply be a matter of shimming under the sensor (washers on the hold down bolt between the sensor and bellhousing) until the depth was right.
I'll know more when the Ebay stuff sells and I have the money to grab the trans.
Thanks,
Tony

Well, You're in luck! I just got pictures from a good friend in San Diego and it looks like they all have the boss for the CPS. Looks like the 523's are even more appealing now. BTW the 555's have it too as one pic is from a 555. I can't believe I never saw it before DOH!

Tony Hanna
05-17-2007, 05:54 AM
Well, You're in luck! I just got pictures from a good friend in San Diego and it looks like they all have the boss for the CPS. Looks like the 523's are even more appealing now. BTW the 555's have it too as one pic is from a 555. I can't believe I never saw it before DOH!

Nice! That'll make the drilling considerably easier than trying to start a bit on a sloped surface.:thumb:
If you don't mind, post up the pics. I'm curious to take a look at them.:)

Also, while I'm thinking about it, the '90 523 has a small spline input shaft right? I think the car that the trans is coming from is a '90. What does that mean for me? Am I just looking at a new clutch disk to fit the small spline shaft, or is there more to it than that?
Thanks,
Tony

Scottmon
05-17-2007, 08:24 AM
Nice! That'll make the drilling considerably easier than trying to start a bit on a sloped surface.:thumb:
If you don't mind, post up the pics. I'm curious to take a look at them.:)

Also, while I'm thinking about it, the '90 523 has a small spline input shaft right? I think the car that the trans is coming from is a '90. What does that mean for me? Am I just looking at a new clutch disk to fit the small spline shaft, or is there more to it than that?
Thanks,
Tony

If you get into replacing the clutch disc and decide to do the pressure plate at the same time, be aware the TIII takes it's own pressure plate. Use the wrong one and the car won't start. Should be OK with just the disc swap.

Tony Hanna
05-17-2007, 08:54 AM
If you get into replacing the clutch disc and decide to do the pressure plate at the same time, be aware the TIII takes it's own pressure plate. Use the wrong one and the car won't start. Should be OK with just the disc swap.

That's the thing, I hate to fool with the clutch at all. It feels like it's got a fairly new clutch in it already. Might have to though depending on which input shaft the 523 has. If I end up needing a different disk, what do you think about a 6 puck disk from clutchnet? I figure something like that with the TIII pressure plate should make for a reasonably strong clutch.

TurboJerry
05-19-2007, 03:53 AM
Nice! That'll make the drilling considerably easier than trying to start a bit on a sloped surface.:thumb:
If you don't mind, post up the pics. I'm curious to take a look at them.:)

Also, while I'm thinking about it, the '90 523 has a small spline input shaft right? I think the car that the trans is coming from is a '90. What does that mean for me? Am I just looking at a new clutch disk to fit the small spline shaft, or is there more to it than that?
Thanks,
Tony

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/TurboJerry/th_568_CPSboss.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/TurboJerry/568_CPSboss.jpg)
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/TurboJerry/th_523_CPSboss.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/TurboJerry/523_CPSboss.jpg)
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/TurboJerry/th_RT_568CPSboss.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/TurboJerry/RT_568CPSboss.jpg)

I had problems with uploading the 555 one I try to see if he will take yet another pic......

Tony Hanna
05-19-2007, 12:27 PM
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/TurboJerry/th_568_CPSboss.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/TurboJerry/568_CPSboss.jpg)
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/TurboJerry/th_523_CPSboss.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/TurboJerry/523_CPSboss.jpg)
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/TurboJerry/th_RT_568CPSboss.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i116/TurboJerry/RT_568CPSboss.jpg)

I had problems with uploading the 555 one I try to see if he will take yet another pic......

You don't have to worry about the 555 on my account. I've seen the boss on that 555 that came out of John's Daytona. Thanks for the pics!
Tony

TurboJerry
05-20-2007, 03:42 AM
I'm building a 520 and noticed it also. Their everywhere!!!!!! (the CPS bosses)
The top pic is a 568 in a car. The second one is a 523........

Tony Hanna
05-20-2007, 04:00 AM
That definately opens up some options. Especially for people wanting TIII engines in other cars.
It looks like it won't be too big of a job to build a jig for locating the hole either. I figure I'll come off the little hole by the timing window with a piece of angle drilled to bolt into the little hole and the corner bellhousing bolt hole. I can cut the verticle leg off of the angle past that and put an "S" bend in the horizontal leg so it lays flat over the CPS hole in the 568. Then all I'll have to do is mark it and drill. After that, it should just be a matter of bolting the jig onto any transmission and drilling the hole.:thumb:

Lotashelbys
05-20-2007, 11:52 AM
Tony,did you see this thread?
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f11/f40/127063-crank-sensor-drill-jig.html

Tony Hanna
05-20-2007, 12:10 PM
Tony,did you see this thread?
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f11/f40/127063-crank-sensor-drill-jig.html

Not until now. I don't know how I missed it with all the searching I was doing over there.:confused:
Your design for the jig looks alot nicer than what I had in mind. Nice work!:nod:

Tony Hanna
05-30-2007, 02:10 AM
A little update for all of you that have been following the R/T 523 project. It's in, the CPS works fine, and (thanks in part to you guys) everything involved in making it work went rather smoothly. :thumb: I also owe thanks to John (jre97) as he did a large share of the work (I'm lazy:) ).

The only downside is that my $150 junkyard 523 is a dud.:( It's quiet as a mouse, and shifts great into 1st through 3rd and 5th. 4th gear is a different story. The second you let the clutch out in 4th it pops out of gear and grinds. If you use excessive force, sometimes it will stay in gear and act fine. If it was affecting 2nd and reverse, I'd almost believe it was a shift cable issue but they're both fine, and there's no adjustment in the selector cable on the 523/568 anyway. Returning the trans is no big deal, but that was the only 523 they had. So now I'm faced with the decision of returning the 523 and calling other yards or ripping into it to fix the 4th gear issue (I'm guessing a shift fork and a new syncro would set it right).
Anyhow, enough of that. Here are some pictures from the install.
Thanks again for all the help!

TurboJerry
05-30-2007, 02:33 AM
Good work on the jig! sounds like the fork pads might be wasted on the 3-4 fork. Or the one adjustment is favoring 3rd gear. I had this on a 568, and it was the adjustment. Others have been those plastic fork pads....

Tony Hanna
05-30-2007, 02:44 AM
Good work on the jig! sounds like the fork pads might be wasted on the 3-4 fork. Or the one adjustment is favoring 3rd gear. I had this on a 568, and it was the adjustment. Others have been those plastic fork pads....

I don't suppose there's an easy way to get at the pads to replace them is there? John and I spent the whole long weekend working on this thing, and I'm a little bummed that I'm going to have to pull it all back apart. I really wish I had access to an FSM that covers the 523/568 so I can see what I'm getting myself into.:)

TurboJerry
05-30-2007, 02:58 AM
The trans is actually simple to work on, but I do them on a regular basis. It will require the input shaft and main shaft to be removed. Since you said the trans is quiet, it's most likely fine otherwise. You might want to pull the top cover and see if anything is loose under there. If you pull the top cover, you will see some of what you might be getting into..........

Tony Hanna
05-30-2007, 03:06 AM
The trans is actually simple to work on, but I do them on a regular basis. It will require the input shaft and main shaft to be removed. Since you said the trans is quiet, it's most likely fine otherwise. You might want to pull the top cover and see if anything is loose under there. If you pull the top cover, you will see some of what you might be getting into..........

Yeah, I've had the top cover off. One of the spring loaded detent thingys was siezed in it's bore. I got that straightened out, and hoped it would solve the problem, but no such luck. If I rip into this am I looking at needing to know any clearances or other specific details or can I get away with pulling it apart, replacing parts, and putting it back together?
Also, while I'm at it, what are the differences between the 523 and 568? Could I use the bearings and such out of this 523 to freshen up the 568?
Sorry for all the questions.

TurboJerry
05-31-2007, 03:39 AM
Yeah, I've had the top cover off. One of the spring loaded detent thingys was siezed in it's bore. I got that straightened out, and hoped it would solve the problem, but no such luck. If I rip into this am I looking at needing to know any clearances or other specific details or can I get away with pulling it apart, replacing parts, and putting it back together?
Also, while I'm at it, what are the differences between the 523 and 568? Could I use the bearings and such out of this 523 to freshen up the 568?
Sorry for all the questions.

The difference between the 523/568 is the pitch of the 1st to 5th gears. The 568 has bigger/fewer teeth to handle more load. If you don't change the input shaft, or the diff you should be able to put everything back together easily. I would preload the input shaft but the shims are a PITA to find. The bearings may self destruct if you press them off to use in another trans. The ones usually needed are set 4, set 5, and two set 11's. (for the diff) You can change the main shaft bearings also, but I don't have the no#'s handy right now.....

Tony Hanna
05-31-2007, 03:49 AM
I guess the best way to go would be to just change the 4th shift fork and syncro in the 523 then. Or can I just replace the pads? Also, you mentioned an adjustment in a previous post. I'm curious about this as the only thing adjustable I saw was the crossover cable.
Thanks,
Tony

TurboJerry
05-31-2007, 03:55 AM
I guess the best way to go would be to just change the 4th shift fork and syncro in the 523 then. Or can I just replace the pads? Also, you mentioned an adjustment in a previous post. I'm curious about this as the only thing adjustable I saw was the crossover cable.
Thanks,
Tony

You can do either the pads and/or fork(s). just make sure there's no issues with the syncro/gear areas. If you have the cable with the one big bushing, then it only has the one adjustment........ Both adjustments are at the shifter ends if you have them both.

Tony Hanna
05-31-2007, 04:01 AM
Ok, that explains it. I do have a cable with the big end.
Thanks

Tony Hanna
05-31-2007, 08:19 PM
Ok, now that I've had a chance to think this through, here's my plan. I'm going to keep running the 523 for now and go ahead and get the bearings for the 568. Once It's back together, I'll swap it back in, and fix the 523 to save as a spare or for another project. With that in mind, I guess I could use the part #'s for the mainshaft bearings, and a quick run through on the procedure for setting the input shaft bearing preload and diff bearing preload.
Does anybody sell a manual on the 523/568?
Thanks in Advance,
Tony