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overlordsshadow
05-08-2007, 06:42 PM
Back strut bar. I've got a 92 4dr shadow and just wondering if anyone has put a back support on the inside of the vehicle and if it made any difference in cornering. I was thinking of going from seatbelt holder to seatbelt holder, just above the wheel wells.

cordes
05-08-2007, 10:01 PM
I believe that Russ Jerome put one in an omni between the strut towers a while back and felt that it really improved things.

GLHNSLHT2
05-08-2007, 10:02 PM
made one long ago. Gave it to Garry Mckissi to test since he was the only one I knew with a Shadow. He said it made a bit of a difference. Ask him. He's on the forums here. I triangulated it in so it wasn't just a straight bar.

overlordsshadow
05-08-2007, 11:04 PM
Ya cause my front one made a HUGE difference but at the back we already have solid axles and the floor going across. So I wasn't sure if putting a bar 10 inches above the floor was going to do much.

Stinkbox
05-09-2007, 12:51 AM
i made one for my daytona out of a stock pan hard bar i had laying around. cut 2 holes for the bolts on the tops of the shock towers and bolted it up. made a hugeeeeeeeee difference since daytonas have that huge hatch area. one of the best mods i did on the car.

Reaper1
05-17-2007, 01:07 PM
Keep your eyes open! A couple of my friends and myself have done a rear bar and did actual testing with it(took measurements to determine body flex). We also compared it to a bar that somebody else already makes. I will hopefully be installing the prototype in my '88 Shelby Z this weekend. The mock-up car was an '86 Turbo Z. I'll give more info once the bar is in my car. I'll also have picutres of it both in the mock car and installed in my car.

GLHNSLHT2
05-17-2007, 06:51 PM
wonder how much it's like the one I made 7+ years ago?? Works great in a tona. The attachment points weren't as good in a shadow so the difference wasn't that much with it in. But it's a must have for a Daytona. Can't wait to see pics. I'll let you know if you copied me.

Reaper1
05-18-2007, 01:24 PM
I'll say that it looks a LOT like another bar that's already offered. We didn't test fit it in a P-body, but it *should* fit, though it might be tight. I'll post pics and numbers after it is in my car this weekend...

overlordsshadow
05-18-2007, 01:26 PM
Gonna start mocking mine tonight. The hatch is already ripped apart and ready for measuring.

Reaper1
05-20-2007, 11:28 PM
Well, I have it in my car. I LOVE this thing! It wasn't fun putting it in primarily because I wanted it to look good and this was the first one we tried to fully install. We learned a few things that will be changed on the next ones we build too. I'll post pictures and stats on it probably tomorrow. I'll say that it makes the car feel like it's got a larger rear sway bar in it.

overlordsshadow
05-21-2007, 06:13 AM
I have to quit gettin drunk so I can work on the Shadow. Can't believe I can type.

Reaper1
05-21-2007, 01:14 PM
LOL...that usually helps!

GLHNSLHT2
05-21-2007, 09:49 PM
Pics!!!!!

Reaper1
05-22-2007, 01:41 PM
Coming tonight!!!

overlordsshadow
05-22-2007, 01:48 PM
Everyone stop yelling!!!!

GLHNSLHT2
05-22-2007, 09:46 PM
Pics Now!!!! :)

overlordsshadow
05-22-2007, 10:15 PM
Its not done! Although I may have pics of almost finished 2 3/4 inch cutout tommorow.

GLHNSLHT2
05-22-2007, 11:00 PM
sorry was talking to Reaper.

Reaper1
05-23-2007, 12:19 AM
OK, here's pictures as promised!!!

This first set is the prototype being installed in my 1988 Shelby Z.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/206/510259003_ec51f8a93b.jpg

Test fitting in the car...the interior panels still had tp be modified at this point
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/200/510259011_ae65dd7e43.jpg

This is how the bolts fit. The outer one is VERY tight, but it does fit. An open end box wrench is needed to hold it for sure!
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/227/510260439_3ab27204e2.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/207/510260443_208abf2e93.jpg

This is the bolts from under the car so you can see where they are. Once tightened they do sit flat against the body. We did end up trimming the bolts off. These were 2" grade 8 bolts, nuts and lockwashers. I also used Grade 5 flat washers because they were larger in diameter than the Grade 8 ones.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/217/510260455_420f8b5970.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/200/510260459_b4e9f43aa2.jpg

This is the bar completely installed in my car. I painted it the closest color I could find to the interior. One of the major factors involved with this design is that my subwoofer HAD to fit under it and it had to fit under the tonoue cover. It was successful!
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/203/510260477_027c0c5c92.jpg

Reaper1
05-23-2007, 12:23 AM
My friend who is hleping make these is also installing one in his '91 CS Daytona. His is the second one made and it fits a little different than mine. I'll post more details about it later. These are the latest pictures of it, the install will be completed tomorrow...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/191/510258999_91dc48326e.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/216/510258997_ccfd50340e.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/220/510258991_2b9c648f0c.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/216/510258985_cd45f82434.jpg

Reaper1
05-23-2007, 12:50 AM
We also tested the prototype bar in an '86 Daytona Turbo Z that is being parted. The doors were not latched, the hatch was completely off, there was NO interior when the tests were done...oh yeah, and it is a sunroof car at that. So basically it was about the worst case scenario we could duplicate for chassis flex to see how much the bar could help. The car was on four jackstands for the testing.

It's kind of hard to describe where the test points were that we used for measuring. There was one at each corner of the hatch opening to check for squareness, and then there were four more under the car at known chassis points to the ground to see if the other part of the unibody was also affected and to make sure we were putting the same stress on the car.

The numbers look like this:
Control-no jack: The hatch opening was 70" and 69.5" across it diagonally with the car static, we had not touched it at this point. The four chassis points were mearly for refference, their numbers don't really mean all the much.

We then jacked the car up on the left rear spring perch on the rear axle to best simulate road conditions. We lifted the car 3" past full suspension conpression.

The results without the bar are as follows:
69-1/2" and 69-3/8" (compared to the control 70 and 69-1/2) across the respective diagonals on the hatch opening. The total deflection: 5/8"

The results WITH the bar are as follows:
69-5/8" and 69-1/2" (compared to the control 70 and 69-1/2) across the respective diagonals on the hatch opening. The total deflection: 1/8"

We then tested with a currently available bar that is made by a vendor from our community. This test was done on a different day and the car has slightly shifted, hence the slightly different control numbers. The numbers for the chassis refference measurements were taken and were the same. The results from that test are as follows:
69-3/8" and 69-3/8" (compared to the control 69-1/2 and 69-3/8). The total deflection: 1/8".

Our conclusion is that the bar makes a significant difference in the deflection of the superstructer of the unibody. Apon driving my car with the bar installed I noticed the car no longer made a lot of creeking noises from the hatch area, the "boominess" was greatly diminished over rough roads, and the car handled almost neutrally around hard corners with a stock suspension.

I will post pictures of the bar installed in the test car tomorrow night...

GLHNSLHT2
05-23-2007, 01:14 AM
hmm so you basically copied the current aftermarket bar? It works. I like mine better. If I get ambitious maybe I'll do the same tests.

slowbrokedodge
05-23-2007, 07:30 AM
We have some other Ideas for different types that will be adjustable but those may be coming later, but the cost of just the materials is much more than the current one.

1991SpiritES
05-23-2007, 08:57 AM
I got to ride in the car the first time the bar was installed. I have to say I was very impressed. You could notice it right away buy just backing out of the driveway over the driveway curb. I have to say that is the 1st time I have ever been in a Daytona that had no nosie comming from the rear hatch area.

Reaper1
05-23-2007, 12:47 PM
I'd like to know what GLHSLHT2's idea is...see if it comes close to one of ours..

Reaper1
05-23-2007, 01:06 PM
I also wanted to say that it was NOT our intent to copy anybody's design. Yes, this particular design is very similar to the one currently on the market, but it IS different. This one is longer, uses 2 bolts at each end instead of 1, and is made of different materials. The current one is also MUCH more expensive!

If we were to make these it would be $40 plus shipping, and that would include the bar(it will be sanded down and primered so the customer can paint it the color they want...I'd suggest doing this AFTER the bar is installed if you intend on reinstalling the rear panels), the attatching hardware, and instructions. Because these are the first few there would be a lead time for the first batch. If somebody is interested they should contact either me or "slowbrokedodge" via e-mail or PM(e-mail is better for slowbrokedodge).

GLHNSLHT2
05-23-2007, 10:37 PM
Oh don't get me wrong. Just having a bar across there does alot for a tona.

Reaper1
05-23-2007, 11:43 PM
I have other designs, but we were going for ease of installation, fairly inexpensive, and effective. This was the best of all three. I have other designs that undoubtedly would be better. For me, they wouldn't work though due to my stereo. For an all out performance application, or for somebody that isn't going to have the stereo installed like mine, then my other designs might work. We still may try some of my other ideas, but for now this one works up to our expectations. If more is needed, then I know it can be had!

tps25pentium
05-24-2007, 11:20 AM
what about one for a lebaron convertible?

Reaper1
05-24-2007, 12:29 PM
This *should* fit it. They are bacially the same chassis. I have a few to test them on too! I'm just concerned about the pump and stuff...it might be in the way, but we'll see. I'll take pictures of that when we test that fitment too...

GLHNSLHT2
05-24-2007, 07:24 PM
Mine would actually clear your stereo more.

slowbrokedodge
05-24-2007, 08:49 PM
GLHNSLHT2 Lets see a pic of what yours looks like. I am interested to see it.

Dez
05-26-2007, 08:43 PM
So this can be done to just about any car?

I would like to make one for my lebaron coupe.

Mopar_Nutz
05-26-2007, 08:50 PM
I always thought these would be cool if you could somehow make them easily removable. (2 ends with a removable centre section. wingnuts?) Just for those people that do still use their hatch for hauling things. I mean my Daytona was basically a pickup truck, no matter how much I raced it. It still hauled furniture, engines, transmissions, dogs etc...

cordes
05-26-2007, 09:06 PM
I always thought these would be cool if you could somehow make them easily removable. (2 ends with a removable centre section. wingnuts?) Just for those people that do still use their hatch for hauling things. I mean my Daytona was basically a pickup truck, no matter how much I raced it. It still hauled furniture, engines, transmissions, dogs etc...

I am sure that with a threaded rod and some coupling nuts etc. from the hardware store anything is possible.

Reaper1
05-27-2007, 07:38 PM
We've come up with a couple of designs that are easily removable. Hoever, they are more complicated, and therefore more expensive and the initial intall to make it look nice would be a little harder. We have not built any prototypes of these designs, but if there's a call for it, then we may.

Turbo_Rampage
06-01-2007, 12:01 AM
I just put a Forward Motion Strut bar on the front of my Rampage, and i noticed a bit of a difference in cornering. At least now when i jack my car up in the air (with the hood open) i dont notice the strut towers moving outward anymore as the weight comes off the tires, and the strut towers don't flex back togather when letting the car down on the ground.

overlordsshadow
06-01-2007, 08:29 AM
Should get my back bar done tonight. Just need to drill the final holes in the steel plates and shorten up the beam then weld it together, prime and paint it. Those plans may get pushed to the side as I have a CAMCORDER NOW. So we may go race around in the SRT-4 instead. Or I could tape the work in the garage.

Reaper1
06-01-2007, 12:54 PM
cool...looking forward to seeing it!

overlordsshadow
06-01-2007, 12:58 PM
Probly going to be metallic blue to match my intercooler plumbing. Looks like it might actually be warm and sunny today so I'm thinking an evening in the garage fabricating and drinking then being driven around to take vids. I love fridays.

overlordsshadow
06-06-2007, 01:49 PM
Finally have a pick, not the best pic in the world and I haven't tested it yet as I have 0 hp right now. http://www.moparmen.ca/picslist_coolmods.php#brace
Just bought the domain name yesterday. All you canuck mopars I'm going to want pics sometime for a Canadian Mopar list so pick your best ones and send them to joejack@sasktel.net

slowbrokedodge
06-07-2007, 12:38 PM
it would be nice to see some test #'s when you get time with and W/O the bar in your car, so we can see how much of a difference your design makes. looks good so far. are you planning on putting the interior pannels back in.

overlordsshadow
06-07-2007, 12:51 PM
Interior panels are on now and bar never coming out, its a PITA to get in there so its pretty much a brace in itself without having to be bolted in lol. Sorry that it is only going to be a seat of the pants test but I imagine it will have to have some positive effect. The bar is rock solid and you can sure shake the heck out of the read end of the car with it.

Devsdaytona
06-11-2007, 12:12 AM
I made one a long time ago for my 91 n/a daytona, suspension was really soft to start with. The difference was so close that that it was hard to tell if it was just my mind or not, but it did corner a bit harder.