Aluminum valve spring retainers

[CSXT802]

Anyone use Aluminum valve spring retainers on there heads.? I'm getting parts together for my cam swap. I have a set of the 061 valve springs. I'm waiting for my F-3 cam to ship out. I just ordered up a set of mopar performance 2.2/2.5 Aluminum valve spring retainers . Has someone used these retainers before.?

[CSXT802]

:bump2:

[BadAssPerformance]

got pics and part number? I might have if that is what came on the IMSA head, I thought they were Chrome Moly tho?

[rbryant]

I have the titanium ones... :)

-Rich

[BadAssPerformance]

part number?

[CSXT802]

got pics and part number? I might have if that is what came on the IMSA head, I thought they were Chrome Moly tho?

P4286574 :o

[rbryant]

Sorry it has been too long since I ordered the titanium ones. I think they were in the MP catalog though.

[CSXT802]

Sorry it has been too long since I ordered the titanium ones. I think they were in the MP catalog though.

I looked up the titanium ones they are NS1. There were still Aluminum ones left. So I ordered up a set.

[CSXT802]

:bump2:

[BadAssPerformance]

http://www.monicattichrysler.com/comersus/store/getChart.asp?id=13&type=IMAGE

[CSXT802]

http://www.monicattichrysler.com/comersus/store/getChart.asp?id=13&type=IMAGE

So are these good to use or not. Someone on TD replyed with this "Aluminum valve spring retainers are kinda known for splitting in half or pulling through. Most engine builders won't use them" :confused:

[BadAssPerformance]

You got a picture of them? I just looked and the ones I have on the shelf are the Chrome Moly ones, but I have different ones in the car.

[turbovanman²]

You can still buy the Ti ones, I was going to but the price stopped that. I was told not to use al ones on a street car, they will wear out or pull thru. The chrome moly ones weigh the same as stockers so no point getting those.

[gasketmaster]

So are these good to use or not. Someone on TD replyed with this "Aluminum valve spring retainers are kinda known for splitting in half or pulling through. Most engine builders won't use them" :confused:

That was me :D

I was an automotive machinist for 20 years specializing in cylinder heads :)

Use the stockers, chrome moly or titanium.

The aluminum retainers work very well as spacers for engine stand bolts :p

Why would you risk your engine?

[Juggy]

I looked up the titanium ones they are NS1. There were still Aluminum ones left. So I ordered up a set.

they have them all available here still in Canada, but when I asked for price on the Ti my jaw dropped!!! I wouldnt dare use aluminum, too soft and will be all mushed up after a few thousand K

http://www.bpemopar.com/22L25LENGINES.htm


heres the site where im guessing they got the retainers from....its full of all kinds of MP parts for the TD head.

[rbryant]

they have them all available here still in Canada, but when I asked for price on the Ti my jaw dropped!!! I wouldnt dare use aluminum, too soft and will be all mushed up after a few thousand K

http://www.bpemopar.com/22L25LENGINES.htm


heres the site where im guessing they got the retainers from....its full of all kinds of MP parts for the TD head.

What was the price? I got them like 5 years ago. I think they were $11 each or something from memory but I could be way off...

-Rich

[show-off]

Steve M. suggested not to use Aluminum, and he is the expert!!

[mock_glh]

The dampeners in the springs will chew their way right through the aluminum. Go with steel or titanium.:nod:

[CSXT802]

Well that was money wasted. They will be something shinny on the shelf.:nod:

[turbovanman²]

The Ti retainers from Dodge are like $28 each. Steve M has a kit for around $100 I think.

[glhs875]

The Ti retainers from Dodge are like $28 each. Steve M has a kit for around $100 I think.

Unless the price has changed, Steve M's titanium retainers are $100.00 for set. The Keepers are $26.00. I have both along with his spec'ed springs and valves hear now to go on my clunker. Very nice stuff!!!

[8valves]

The Ti retainers from Dodge are like $28 each. Steve M has a kit for around $100 I think.

And they're worth ever penny.

Compared to my old chromoly ones they dropped 12.2 grams................................EACH :nod:

[rbryant]

The Ti retainers from Dodge are like $28 each. Steve M has a kit for around $100 I think.

Wow they must have gone up. I know I spent under $100 for them when I started building that head some 5 years ago...

Atleast I will be able to sell something should I get fed up with the engine one day...

-Rich

[turbovanman²]

Yeah, titanium isn't cheap anymore. :(

[BadAssPerformance]

When was it? ;)

[turbovanman²]

When was it? ;)

5 years ago, :nod:

[BadAssPerformance]

Ti was cheap? no way!

[CSXT802]

Ok the retainers showed up today. so here are some pictures. they look stout, no one has used them or has proof of one failing. I'm going to have some balls and give them a shot. If all the nay sayers are correct I'll post the results and eat my share of crow. Ma MOPAR don't fail me now.!!!!
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/brouss29/DSCF0118.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/brouss29/DSCF0121.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/brouss29/DSCF0123.jpg

[turbovanman²]

They will look stout but they will wear out fast. Do I need to show you whats left of my engine after it dropped a valve cruising along at 65 mph?

[BadAssPerformance]

Simon, thought you had a guide fail, not a retainer?

[turbovanman²]

Simon, thought you had a guide fail, not a retainer?

I did but the carnage is the same, a dropped valve is a dropped valve, :(

[BadAssPerformance]

true, true

[johnl]

Simon - did the guide drop into the port?

[show-off]

From my understanding the locks are what chew the valve and retainers up on our cars. Make sure you at least have hardened locks.

[turbovanman²]

Simon - did the guide drop into the port?

No, it looks like the valve guides wore and then the valve either stuck or broke. I figure the high EGT's I couldn't get rid of did it.


From my understanding the locks are what chew the valve and retainers up on our cars. Make sure you at least have hardened locks.

And using hardened retainers with Aluminium will wear even faster.

[CSXT802]

Ok my F-3 cam showed up today.!! So............ I got to work.!
F-3 cam & new sprocket
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/brouss29/DSCF0144.jpg
Ok, let me have it. 061 valve springs & Aluminum valve spring retainers installed
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/brouss29/DSCF0145.jpg
man I love how AMSOIL keeps the inside of my engine nice and clean.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f373/brouss29/DSCF0146.jpg

[turbovanman²]

Your crazy, seriously crazy. Did you see my carnage pics?

[CSXT802]

Your crazy, seriously crazy. Did you see my carnage pics?

Thanks Simon.!! I know full well what droping a valve in the cylinder will do.
my other choice was to use the stock retainers, witch do not fit these larger dia.springs. I showed my father who has built many engines ( big block/small block 2.2/2.5) how the Aluminum valve spring retainers fit compared to stock.
He said that he would use the Aluminum retainers before the smaller dia. stock ones. Like any good son I'll go on the word of my old man. That and not one single person on here stated that had used these retainers and had them fail. So I'll be the test dummy for the rest of us.:amen:

[turbovanman²]

Thanks Simon.!! I know full well what droping a valve in the cylinder will do.
my other choice was to use the stock retainers, witch do not fit these larger dia.springs. I showed my father who has built many engines ( big block/small block 2.2/2.5) how the Aluminum valve spring retainers fit compared to stock.
He said that he would use the Aluminum retainers before the smaller dia. stock ones. Like any good son I'll go on the word of my old man. That and not one single person on here stated that had used these retainers and had them fail. So I'll be the test dummy for the rest of us.:amen:

Hahhaa, ok. Did you dad offer you money for the new engine when it lets go? ;) hehehe.

[CSXT802]

Hahhaa, ok. Did you dad offer you money for the new engine when it lets go? ;) hehehe.

No, but I'm sure he'll let me use his garage and lift to fix it. He is the only person I know with a 9000 pound car/truck lift at the house.:thumb:

[Ondonti]

bye bye motor

Toss the springs. No point risking (and this is not just a risk, its a certainty that it will break soon if you actually put miles on it) a motor over the cost of some valve springs. Get some different springs and hook yourself up with TI or jsust stock retainers.

[CSXT802]

Well it's running, made it out the garage door and to the street. The car has 130,190 miles on it. How long do you give me.? we should start the engine death pool now. Here is my guess, they will make it to October when I put the car away for the season.

[turbovanman²]

My last comment. You can get the springs you want for around $75, I even sell the ones need and you can use your steel retainers, then you won't have to play Russian Roulette.

Depends on the mileage your planning to drive, if not many, it will last the summer for sure.

[CSXT802]

My last comment. You can get the springs you want for around $75, I even sell the ones need and you can use your steel retainers, then you won't have to play Russian Roulette.

Depends on the mileage your planning to drive, if not many, it will last the summer for sure.

I put 5000-7000 miles on the car a year (spring\summer). Thats why I'm not too worried. I'll remove them next spring. your opinions are NOT falling on def ears.;)

[CSXT802]

2000 miles and all is well............. so far. :clap2:

[8valves]

2000 miles and all is well............. so far. :clap2:

Awesome! I think this is hillarious, give it hell and let it drive till it lets go!

[CSXT802]

Awesome! I think this is hillarious, give it hell and let it drive till it lets go!
:lol: :thumb:

[turbovanman²]

2000 miles and all is well............. so far. :clap2:


Haahhaa, :lol:

[John B]

I used aluminum retainers on small block Chevy engines on the street for years without a problem.

[CSXT802]

3000 miles and an oil change . :D

[4 l-bodies]

I have a set of new titanium retainers. They are Manley retainers. $90 shipped. That is a bargain considering the heavy Chrome-Moly ones are almost that much these days.
Todd

[CSXT802]

Update: 6200 miles and going strong.:clap:

[moparzrule]

I'd say keep a close watch on your oil as you drain it to look for any aluminum pieces. Also might want to crack open the oil filter, although cutting it would put tons of tiny little metal pieces everywhere and you wouldn't be able to distinguish what was aluminum or not. Perhaps break out a magnet, aluminum doesn't stick to a magnet.

[tvanlant]

Thanks Simon.!! I know full well what droping a valve in the cylinder will do.
my other choice was to use the stock retainers, witch do not fit these larger dia.springs. I showed my father who has built many engines ( big block/small block 2.2/2.5) how the Aluminum valve spring retainers fit compared to stock.
He said that he would use the Aluminum retainers before the smaller dia. stock ones. Like any good son I'll go on the word of my old man. That and not one single person on here stated that had used these retainers and had them fail. So I'll be the test dummy for the rest of us.:amen:

Good luck with the al retainers. I've never seen them fail, but I've heard stories. If you do want to change them eventually, the stock retainers work fine with 061 springs.

[CSXT802]

Good luck with the al retainers. I've never seen them fail, but I've heard stories. If you do want to change them eventually, the stock retainers work fine with 061 springs.
I plan on having the head off some time this year. When I do I"ll remove them and take pics.

[The Pope]

you can drop in Comp Conicals with 145 seat, 285 open and a retainer the size of a nickle and your using aluminum retainers?

[tvanlant]

+1, the conicals are the sweetest way to go. Can handle any cam you throw at them, with the best reasonable pressures and lightest retainers. A little pricey though.

[The Pope]

+1, the conicals are the sweetest way to go. Can handle any cam you throw at them, with the best reasonable pressures and lightest retainers. A little pricey though.

You just installed a set I sold Jay in a head you ported. Yeah they are pricy, but you don't throw them away when you rebuild the head either. I've also noticed the price has come down, I paid $240 some time ago and now they are near $180 a set. As more and more people step up the price has been dropping.:clap: