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2.216VTurbo
04-09-2007, 11:45 PM
As it turns out, I am building two motors at once (three if you consider the new TU K1 rods that are going into the GLHS;) ) Both heads were back from the shop today after dissasembly, cleaning and some rough machining. So before I sat down with the die grinder this afternoon I took a few pics of them side by side.

A few things stand out for sure. The TIII head is positively portly in size and weight compared to the Masi. Placing the cams to the side instead of over the valves make the TIII much thinner than the Masi. The TIII head 'out of the box' needs less cutting to get it where I want it to be, after only 4 hours or so on the TIII, I am 1/3 done with it:thumb: The Masi Heads take so much more work to get the numbers...

Mario
04-09-2007, 11:54 PM
Thanks for the pics Alan. That blue cloth looks very familiar....did you take that from your practice? :p

turbovanmanČ
04-09-2007, 11:54 PM
You have way too much money, lol!

Looks good. I got lazy this time, actually, no time so I had a head porting shop do my TIII. He is flowing it before and after, not going wild, just a bit more than stock.

Mario
04-09-2007, 11:56 PM
You have way too much money, lol!

Looks good. I got lazy this time, actually, no time so I had a head porting shop do my TIII. He is flowing it before and after, not going wild, just a bit more than stock.

I thought we'd be seeing some pics of his HH head too. :evil: :yuck:

turbovanmanČ
04-09-2007, 11:57 PM
I thought we'd be seeing some pics of his HH head too. :evil: :yuck:

Come on Alan, do share! :nod:

PM me what coil wire you need.

Mario
04-10-2007, 12:05 AM
Come on Alan, do share! :nod:

PM me what coil wire you need.

Oops maybe it's someone elses. I don't know. This thread just reminded me he had posted pics of one:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11835&highlight=hans+herman+head

You talking to me about coil wires?

2.216VTurbo
04-10-2007, 12:33 AM
Oops maybe it's someone elses. I don't know. This thread just reminded me he had posted pics of one:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11835&highlight=hans+herman+head

You talking to me about coil wires?

Funny thing about that guy who ownes the HH head, he has more Masi 16 V motors than I do:D ... We kind of collaborate on parts for them.

turbovanmanČ
04-10-2007, 03:20 AM
You talking to me about coil wires?

Nope. ;)

GLHNSLHT2
04-10-2007, 07:29 PM
Alan, great pics to compare the both of them. Question though. Why are 2 chambers in the Masi head all pitted looking?

2.216VTurbo
04-10-2007, 07:48 PM
Alan, great pics to compare the both of them. Question though. Why are 2 chambers in the Masi head all pitted looking?

The guy I got the Masi head from took this one in as a 'core' so the history is a bit unknown. He insists though that is what the heads look like when carbon builds up on the edges of those Masi pistons and bangs into the deck surface of the head. I'm a bit skeptical of that explanation but [I]something[I] was definately banging around in those two cylinders... Funny though, the pitting has 'dull' edges rather than that sharp look when a piece of metal has been ratttling around a cylinder. One of lifes mysteries I guess;)

GLHNSLHT2
04-10-2007, 08:27 PM
The moral of the story is once you get the motor together Romp The Sh!t Out Of It!! :)

Clay
04-10-2007, 11:05 PM
Looks like corrosion to me Alan.

2.216VTurbo
04-11-2007, 12:32 AM
Looks like corrosion to me Alan.

If it were corrosion, it would be the worlds deepest:lol: It is deep enough that I am going to have some of it filled with weld before the head gets surfaced;)

Clay
04-11-2007, 11:10 AM
yeah your probably right. I just blew the pictures up a bit and it does look more like it was hit by something. There are even marks that seem to repeat, but move around.

Directconnection
04-11-2007, 12:30 PM
Definately not corrosion or carbon to do that. Looks like the spark plug's electrode came off (detonation or those platniums maybe?) and got trapped in the quench areas. You can see it bounced around in other areas lightly as it had room to no get squished by the squish.

turbovanmanČ
04-11-2007, 12:53 PM
Definately not corrosion or carbon to do that. Looks like the spark plug's electrode came off (detonation or those platniums maybe?) and got trapped in the quench areas. You can see it bounced around in other areas lightly as it had room to no get squished by the squish.

Yep, looks like a typical 2 stroke that let go, :eyebrows:

2.216VTurbo
04-22-2007, 10:17 AM
I got in a few more hours on the TIII head yesterday, I am still impressed with the port/runner design on the intake side. Exhaust is a bit trickier to gain improvements looks like to me. Should take another 4-5 hours to finish a few more runners and then 2-3 hours to reshape the chambers. I'll take pics as it progresses. Wish I had access to a flow bench:(

Two before shots and two after's although on the before's, the bowls are already roughed in. I could have opened the runners way more there is plenty of material, but with stock valves 2mm should be plenty.

GLHNSLHT2
04-22-2007, 12:21 PM
Hey alan while you have the two heads there I was wondering if you could take a measurement. Can you see how far it is from the chamber up to where the two ports rejoin on the T3 head vs the Masi head? The masi head obviously doesn't rejoin till in the intake manifold. But being narrower I'm wondering if these dimensions are the same or very close between the two heads.

2.216VTurbo
04-23-2007, 12:55 PM
Hey alan while you have the two heads there I was wondering if you could take a measurement. Can you see how far it is from the chamber up to where the two ports rejoin on the T3 head vs the Masi head? The masi head obviously doesn't rejoin till in the intake manifold. But being narrower I'm wondering if these dimensions are the same or very close between the two heads.
Be glad to but not sure I follow what you are asking:o Are you asking for the total runner length measured from the deck surface?

I got in another 5 hours on the TIII head yesterday, intakes are done save for the final polish and the chambers are reshaped and increased about 3-4 cc's each. I won't know the total volume until I reassemble everything but I'll CC it then.

GLHNSLHT2
04-23-2007, 01:05 PM
yes total length from the deck surface up till they merge. Doesn't have to be exact, just curious how close the 2 heads are in this sense.

2.216VTurbo
04-26-2007, 12:33 AM
I finally finished up the porting and shaping on the TIII head, it took me 26 hours total which is much less time than I tend to spend on the Masi 16V heads. That either means the TIII heads are better 'out of the box' or there is more to work with on the Masi's... Don't know for sure;) Anyway, here are a few pics of the finished bare head.

These little steam holes that have the anoding issue I am going to have welded up. My options are to redrill them smaller or not redrill them at all. There are another set of holes just an inch away, maybe they are redundant?

turbovanmanČ
04-26-2007, 12:44 AM
Nice work man. Any before and after flow numbers?

BadAssPerformance
04-26-2007, 01:21 AM
These little steam holes that have the anoding issue I am going to have welded up. My options are to redrill them smaller or not redrill them at all. There are another set of holes just an inch away, maybe they are redundant?

Looking good there :thumb:

I beleive that the steam holes line up with the x-drilled holes between the cylinders, the holes near them are for the regular water jacket.

mcsvt
04-26-2007, 03:47 PM
Looks good Alan. :thumb:

Do you plan on having it flowed to compare it to a Masi head? Or do you not have ported Masi numbers?

johnl
04-26-2007, 07:28 PM
Love seeing that pile of aluminum chips. Looks good Alan.

2.216VTurbo
04-27-2007, 01:34 AM
Looks good Alan. :thumb:

Do you plan on having it flowed to compare it to a Masi head? Or do you not have ported Masi numbers?


Not going to spend the time or money on flowing it, maybe the next owner of this motor will want to do that;) The TIII is 'temporary' until the Masi powerplant is ready, maybe 6-8 months.


Yeah, I have the ported stock valve Masi numbers, they rock:rockon: A very reliable sorce told me with the oversize valves flow increases 8% on the intake and 16% on the exhaust. I'll post those up when they are ready:eyebrows:

GLHNSLHT2
04-27-2007, 09:10 PM
alan did you get a chance to take those measurements for me? can't wait to see the flow #'s on the masi.

2.216VTurbo
04-28-2007, 03:41 AM
alan did you get a chance to take those measurements for me? can't wait to see the flow #'s on the masi.

Ok, Jay no I didn't measure yet but I willCC the TIII head tomorrow and do the measurements...

I did get the head back from the shop today welded and wth a fresh 3 angle valve job, back cut valves- the works :thumb:

My cylinder head guy called me about noon and asked if the head had ever 'gotten really hot'? seems the exhaust seats are not really in the middle of the guide area, in other words he told me he had to cut a bunch out of the seats to get a good valve/set interface :( No discernable twisting or warpage on the head that he could find but I don't have the complete history on the head other than it only has 15K miles on it so anything is possible I guess... Here are some pics of the finished head with the Titanium retainers and whatnot. The pointer shows the 'thin side' and the 'thick side' of the seats. Also the troublesome anoded steam holes welded up as well as that little oil galley plug that likes to make the HG fail. I am using the Cometic HG so I asked for the smoothest finish that could be cut into the face, it is so smooth you can see yourself in it, that ought to do it:eyebrows: