cool

[dodgeshadowchik]

v6's got thier own section! cool!

i have a question to start his all off. which fuel pressure regulators do you guys recommend using for the forced induction on the 3.0L? i'm looking at ones made by cartech (begi). i beleive it is a 10:1. i have seen a 12:1, as well. which would work best? any other suggestions from you guys who have already been running the turbo on these cars? btw, i am running 33 lb injectors and a stock pump for the time being, as i've heard it'll be fine for now.

[Moparbishi]

you are running 33 pph injectors. is it currently turbocharged? dor you have a adjustable fuel pressure regulator?

if not i would take them out, you will run extremly rich and get horrible MPG.

[Wink]

v6's got thier own section! cool!

i have a question to start his all off. which fuel pressure regulators do you guys recommend using for the forced induction on the 3.0L? i'm looking at ones made by cartech (begi). i beleive it is a 10:1. i have seen a 12:1, as well. which would work best? any other suggestions from you guys who have already been running the turbo on these cars? btw, i am running 33 lb injectors and a stock pump for the time being, as i've heard it'll be fine for now.




Just look at what Brent has done. He's running larger injectors at a lower base fuel pressure. Then he's ramping up the fuel pressure as boost increases with an adjustable FMU. He recorded that the stock fuel pump ran out of steam around 240hp, and started to go lean. I'd stick with your current setup, assuming that you have the base fuel pressure lowered to run those 33# injectors. As for the FMU you should be looking for, get the Cartech/BEGi unit that has two adjustments. The first adjustment is for the tip in pressure. It adjusts what the fuel pressure is at 0 boost/vac. Make that match your current fuel regulator's pressure. The second adjustment is the rate of gain. This adjusts the max fuel pressure at max boost. This way you are not chancing running lean with a 10:1 or 12:1 unit while on low boost. Then running pig rich as your boost increases.

I seriously advise on getting a better fuel pump before boosting the 3.0L over 7 psi.


Wink

[Frank]

My opinion from hearing different stories is that you need a bigger pump, and dont be cheap for the gauges.

The reason for the bigger pump is for the following reason.... you arent controlling the additional fuel with computer/injectors. Instead you are using a RRFPR. This means that your line pressures coming from the pump cause the pump to burn up, etc.

Good pump, EGT, A/F. Then you can try different methods of fuel. Brent's approach is rather good with the exception (in theory) of too low of pressure can cause inconsistancies in cylinder fueling.


Frank

[Ondonti]

Corky Bell told me a friend of his passed emissions on 12 psi base fuel pressure.

I have some 47# injectors in my room now and Ill probably run 19-20 psi base pressure (or whatever makes my wideband datalogs happy)

The BEGI unit is infinitly (sorta) adjustable on the rate of gain, so you dont have to guess what to purchase.

I have been thinking that if your fuel pump isnt up to task, that the mear turning up of fuel pressure might actually have the reverse effect on fueling (aka turn up the pressure and the pump cant keep up anymore so you lean out). That means that when I thought I was richening things up I was just making things worse in the end......but Im not sure. I was able to lean things out at 7.5ish psi at 4000 ft elevation (thats like 9 psi at sea level) so I thought that the fuel pump was still okay. If I cranked the rate of gain up it would get richer, but apparently since I was running on the edge of the pumps capacity, something as simple of a voltage drop to the pump would cause me to lean out and blow up the motor. I wish I had known before that I was on the edge of the pumps capacity. Now I know.

The 240whp rule probably doesnt mean much either. I figure I made 240+whp and my a/f's were datalogging below 10:1 (something like 8-9:1 but my wideband wont read that low on the datalogs). The car got MUCH faster when I leaned things out to 12.2. It took only 1/10th of a second of a reading above 13:1 (pump crapped out) and the motor was gone. Of course the moment the motor went the a/f dropped again since that cylinder wasnt firing anymore.

[Ondonti]

There is a cheap dyno here (35 bucks an hour) and I will probably play around on that when the car gets back together. Its supposed to read very low though since its very oldschool.......but it should help me tune things out.

I would really like to wire up a knock sensor somehow though.

[dodgeshadowchik]

it was running the larger injectors before the turbo. did hurt the milage. ;) but at the time when it was being put back together, 3 of the old ones got damaged...and well, i had those laying around, so i thought why not, i'm going to use them anyways, eventually. haha, yea i can be dumb sometimes. :)

i was going to invest in some autometer gauges, and that wideband o2.
thanks for the advise. i'm still pretty far off from getting it together, so i'm just trying to cover all my bases. :)

[3rdGen3.0]

at what times is the timing retarded on the 3.0L? if you could send the same signal using a home made knock sensor, wouldnt that work? just wire it into an existing sensor that causes the computer to retard timing under certain circumstances...

[Ondonti]

btw I got 30 mpg on 2 900 mile trips with 30# injectors. 30 mpg with no turbo, 31mpg with turbo.

[Ondonti]

Im more interested in datalogging a knock sensor using 0-5v.

[Frank]

Datalogging is cake. Take a 15k resistor between the terminal and 5volts. Then take 2 wires going from ground and the terminal and run them into you microphone input. Then use Audacity from sourceforge.net to record.


Frank

[Ondonti]

Well I already have the ability to datalog an imput of 0-5v. So what I need is a knock sensor, and then something that will extend the knock signal into something loggable. Im wondering if the GM setup that is usable with megasquirt would be able to work with my setup.

[440trk]

btw I got 30 mpg on 2 900 mile trips with 30# injectors. 30 mpg with no turbo, 31mpg with turbo.

What fuel pressure were you running those 30#'s at? What else did you have done, (52 TB, pulleys, ported intake, etc..) and was it a notable improvement.

Sorry for all the questions...LOL
I recently got a daily driver, 91 V6 5spd Daytona that's all stock...and a little performance upgrading is bound to happen sooner or later... Next venture to the salvage yard will hopefully give me a 52mm TB....where to go from there?

Thanks!
Mike (440trk)

[Frank]

Your best bet is a cold air intake, full 2.5" exhaust and fully port out the upper plenum. Those results in a much pepier car. You loose some low end, but with the 5spd, you dont notice... you just notice a better car uptop.

[Ondonti]

I was running the 30# at 31.5 psi. At wot its actually a little rich on the wideband for n/a but I found I got slower at the track when I tried leaning it out

I would stick with 19# injectors. I was just practicing figuring out how the fueling works so I would understand how to work things when I got the turbo on.

58mmtb with effective cold air intake, ported plenum with no divider. 3" exhaust, BPE pulley, intake spacers (not really an effective mod). Solid mounts, 4 puck ceramic clutch, 40%+ R/T pressure plate, Magnacore wires, mustang 5.0 coil located 3" from distributor,

I figure from my trap speeds the car was making a bit over 180whp but I had quite a loss of low end power. Those arent all my mods but I cant really remember them all. Having a system that works well together rather then a few random mods will bring the best results.

The highest dyno's Ive seen from a 3.0 were only 150-160whp but they were very lightly modified with stock intake manifolds. A free exhaust and good breathing intake manifold should make up for some of the crappyness in the heads/cams.

Just for a little evidence, the austrailian guys have built a simple intake that took many sohc guys from ~150+whp to ~180+ whp with that simple addition. Just the intake manifold. Of course they have a better manifold to start out with, but I was impressed that US guys are managing to make the same power by just doing a little manual labor. Let it be noted that the austrailian guys didnt lose low end power with the work on their intake manifold and we lose low end power after porting it heavily in my experience. Their manifold costs over $700 and the TB's are $700 bucks additional.

[440trk]

Thanks for the info/advice guys. :thumb:

The Daytona is my daily driver, so I'm not planning on going crazy with it...but anything I can do to help out performance and keep the mpg within a reasonable range, is welcome.

Exhaust and air intake are on the list for sometime this year and I'm hoping to snag a 52mm TB this weekend at the yard.


Thanks again!
Mike(440trk)

[3rdGen3.0]

Thanks for the info/advice guys. :thumb:

The Daytona is my daily driver, so I'm not planning on going crazy with it...but anything I can do to help out performance and keep the mpg within a reasonable range, is welcome.

Exhaust and air intake are on the list for sometime this year and I'm hoping to snag a 52mm TB this weekend at the yard.


Thanks again!
Mike(440trk)

if you can't find one (which is rediculous, they are all over the place), i have a spare one ;)

i'm purchasing the intake set from a diamante from kandamotorsports... hopefully that brings a little more out of the engine...

its also coming with a huge tb... woot!