PDA

View Full Version : My Shelby Dodge Nightmare Begins....



ShelbyGLHS324
03-30-2007, 02:53 AM
Hello everyone I am new to the website here, and reviewing this site it's amazing. It it well put together. I like it very much.

I would like to address the title of this thread. My Shelby Dodge Nightmare begins. If you are on some other mailing lists, and/or forum sites, you might have heard this story. If you have not, I will include you in on the total nightmare. I am going to be asking a lot of questions as far as where to start and where to go on doing things. So, without further adew, here is my story.

Hello everyone, now that I am going to be an overnight mechanic, I thought that I would be able to tell everyone my story regarding my 87' Shelby GLH-S. Some of you may have already heard the story, but then some of you haven't... So here goes the story...

It started out in the summer of 06' when I decided to become Mr. BF Goodwrench. I decided that I was going to do a simple oil change. Note to anyone, when you are not thinking clearly, please don't work on a Shelby. Some might have said I was a blonde that day. I only put in 2 quarts of oil. I know I am going to get a lot of slack for that one. Needless to say my Shelby didn't take too good to that.. It started knocking. So, I parked it right away and added the rest of the recommended amount of oil. But, it still kept knocking.

I thought that it would be a lifter that was causing the problem. So, I went to get a lifter for the car, and replaced it, and in doing so... Man am I going to be getting some heat from this. Let's say when I went to put the valve cover back on, I didn't have a torque wrench with me. And from that point I am sure you all know what's coming next. Yep, you guessed it, the bolts that hold down the valve cover snapped. 3 of them snapped. I was freaking out. Well, the car now leaks oil really bad. :mad: So, I decided to not drive it anymore because, now it's making a lot of clicking noise. So, my Shelby sat for the rest of the year. :( I promised my Shelby, once I get my tax return, I was going to get her fixed back up to par.

Now, we are in February of '07. Making the car now considered a classic automobile, 20 years old. I called all around town in Des Moines, IA. I was looking for a mechanic that would be able to restore/rebuild the engine, because I knew that there was problems in it. No one in my area would touch a car that old. I was directed to the dealership of Des Moines Chrysler ((515) 270-8100 - 4410 Merle Hay Rd, Des Moines, IA), where I spoke with a man named Kevin. I asked him if he would be able to rebuild engines. He said, "Yes they can do that." I advised him that it's a 1987 Shelby GLH-S Dodge Charger. He advised me that shouldn't be a problem. I then proceeded to ask, how much it would cost to do something like that. He advised me that it would cost around $3,500.00, and that's with the parts and labor.

I knew that would be kind of pricey, but in the long run I can make that work. I advised Kevin, that I would have a tow truck bring in the automobile so he would be able to start working on it. 2 days had passed by and I hadn't heard anything from him. So, I called the dealership and he said that he is going to lunch and he would be working on it right after he got back. I told him that would be fine. Later that day he called me and told me that his boss would like it if I could make a payment of $1,000.00 for the work that they are going to be doing. :eek: So, I said that I could do that, and made me believe that I only had $2,500.00 left to pay now.

Well, here is where the story gets interesting. 2 days later Kevin, calls me back. Now, let me clue everyone in. I work at nights from 7:00pm to 7:00am. So, when I get home I like to have at least 7-8 hours of sleep. Which would make it about 4-5:00pm before I would wake up. He called me around 2:00pm and told me that he found several problems with my car, and it's going to cost me an additional $5,000.00 to fix. Now, I am awake. He told me to think about it and give him a call on Monday, because he called me on a Friday.

Well, Monday came around and I was still thinking about everything that he said. So, he called me on Tuesday, and I asked him what the total cost would be for everything, he told me a different price this time which came to a price of about $7,100.00. I told him that there is no way shape or form, I can get my hands on that kind of money. I asked him if there is any type of payment arrangements, he said that he would check with his boss, and call me back. 30 minutes later he called me back and said that they don't offer any kind of payment arrangements (In my mind, if you don't offer any kind of payment arrangements, and I am sure this isn't the first time someone has asked this, wouldn't you know right off the bat?)

I told him just get my car put back and I will have a tow truck come and get it, and bring it home. This is where it caught me off guard. He told me that they wouldn't be able to put it back together (And in there shop it says they are ASE Certified, which I now know means NOTHING, except they might know more about changing oil than I do at this point. :p ).

I then asked, "What condition is my car?" Of course I am thinking just what you would be thinking if you were in the same situation. :eek: They told me that the wheels are off, and there is no shocks on it, and bottom line that it's just a shell with no front wheels. I asked them if they would be able to put it in a condition where I can tow it home. They said they wanted me to come and take a look at it first (Which means, HECK NO!). I came out there after trying to figure out what I am going to do about this (Lawyer, Attorney General, BBB, Local News).

Come to find out the only thing wrong with the ENGINE (The thing I wanted them to fix only), was a crank shaft, and two pistons were messed up. They told me that they couldn't find a crank shaft for this year of an automobile, so they would be able to get a re-manufactured engine. That's not going to keep my car in the classic condition that I want it. :bang head So, now I called the tow company and told them to go and pick up my Shelby at Des Moines Chrysler. I told the towing company that there is no engine, no transmission, no steering column, and no tires on the car. They told me that wouldn't be a problem.

Well, luckily the guy that went to pick it up called me and said there is a problem. He suggested that I get the tires on the car before he tows it. He later told me that Des Moines Chrysler, wanted him to just tow it like that, and not caring the damages it would cause. Not in those exact words, but they tried to get him to tow it just the way it was with no front tires on it, with a flat bed. He refused, and wanted to speak to me first. I told him that he did the right thing in calling me. :banana: So, today I went out with the tires and told Kevin, that I am there to put on the tires. He said, "Ok." And, went on his business, and didn't offer anyone to assist me.

I have posted pictures of my Shelby as we speak, on a web page that you will be able to view. I didn't want to post it on this forum due to the fact that they are large in size. There is no pop-ups and is ad-free. So, no worries there, and it's work friendly. You will be able to view all of the photos, and I also posted the invoice, and the thank you letter I received from Des Moines Chrysler. It's completely horse dung on what they did to me. The site address is listed here.. http://www.soulserpentmedia.com/DodgeShelby/MyShelbyStory.html

So, I want everyone to know I have contacted the Better Business Bureau, and the Attorney General, and filed cases upon the issues. I have tried to contact the local media regarding the issue and I have gotten no response. I have gotten a response from the Better Business Bureau, and they said that a case has been filed and they are waiting for response from the Company. If they contact me I am to go to their website right away and post exactly what was said and what was done. If I don't get resolution with that, I will take the next step and take this company to small claims court.

Thank you for taking your time on reading this. All comments and post are welcome.

GLHSKEN
03-30-2007, 07:16 AM
You are better off getting a used head from someone on the board. Swapping it on then fixing yours. It is a scary job the 1st time you do it, but not that bad.

Anonymous_User
03-30-2007, 08:14 AM
1.) Welcome to the board!

2.) NOTHING should cost $7,000 at a shop to repair on your car.

3.) It's nice to find a fellow Iowegian.

4.) If you want to get the car to Waterloo, we can get ya all fixed up with parts I have laying around, and you supplying the beer.

Hell, if ya want to cover the gas, I can come and trailer the car here.

I can't believe ANY garage would tear a car apart like that BEFORE getting the full go ahead from the owner.

It's going to take some time to get it together, that's for sure. I'm willing to help you out, but I can't come down there to work. Maybe a multiple weekend thing in my garage.

I've got the parts you need (can't GIVE them away) and can hook you up with my machinist on rebuilding that engine.

Unless you are overwhelmed and want to part with the car for cash :D

1FastCSX289
03-30-2007, 08:29 AM
WOW. That story is really upsetting. Its a shame that had to happen to a numbered Shelby.

Not to upset you anymore, but that problem could have been fixed by simply pulling the head, dropping the oil pan and replacing the rods while the engine was still IN THE CAR. And even if it had to be pulled, there is NO REASON to pull apart all that stuff. Thats ridiculous. And, as Ken said......all of the parts are available on the forum here CHEAP. Thats the beauty of these cars.....theyre CHEAP. 7k dollars is the most insane thing I have ever heard. 3500 was much more in line.

That being said, I think you need to look into alternative governing bodies to get satisfaction from these thieves. I am in the business here in NY and I know that the BBB and attorney general really dont mean squat. A largely unknown secret to satisfaction in situations like these is the Department of Motor Vehicles. THis is the liscensing bureau that governs the auto repair industry. These are the guys that hang the sign on the front of the building and allow a shop to do business. These are the guys that are just waiting to drop the axe on a shop the screws customers over. Even if a shop hasnt done anything wrong, they dont want the DMV on their back because they are a GIANT headache.

Now, I dont know if its the same in Iowa, but its worth a check into. Call the DMV and see if they are in charge of handling complaints with repair facilites. If theyre anything like the NY DMV, you will have your money back.:thumb:

GLHS592
03-30-2007, 09:01 AM
Welcome. You've come to the right place. There is more information floating around this forum than anywhere else.

I've used the BBB two times in my life. I don't know if they have old union thugs or retired mafia working for them, but they came through 100% for me.



3.) It's nice to find a fellow Iowegian.

Thanks for solving one of the mysteries of life. :p I never knew what people from Iowa were called.

Clay
03-30-2007, 09:14 AM
welcome!

I read your story on the Team Omni list I believe. You have come to the right place that is for sure! and Anonymous_User is a pretty good guy to have close to you!

as for an Iowegian...... i dont even know how to pronounce that!

Anonymous_User
03-30-2007, 09:48 AM
Rhymes with Norwegian.

Proper term would be Iowan.

Or if your into acronyms:

Idiots
Out
Wandering
Around


:D

tryingbe
03-30-2007, 10:21 AM
I pull the engine and tranny out of my GLH with removing my sturts or sub frame.

Anonymous_User
03-30-2007, 10:27 AM
^^ you mean witOUT, right?

What does the official book say on this procedure? Pull the k-member or pull the motor/trans out the top?

I'd say, since he pulled the k-member, he doesn't know the cars too well. If the book says to drop then, I guess he was following procedure, but if it says NOT to pull it, he's just an incompetent fool.

I'd fight as much as I had to to get my money back!

tryingbe
03-30-2007, 10:38 AM
Opps, I meant without.

Still too early in the monring.

1FastCSX289
03-30-2007, 12:30 PM
^^ you mean witOUT, right?

What does the official book say on this procedure? Pull the k-member or pull the motor/trans out the top?

I'd say, since he pulled the k-member, he doesn't know the cars too well. If the book says to drop then, I guess he was following procedure, but if it says NOT to pull it, he's just an incompetent fool.

I'd fight as much as I had to to get my money back!

You dont have to pull the k-frame or pull it out the top. The motor and tranny drop out the bottom of the car without any trouble. Leave the k-frame, struts, suspension alone. Just raise it up on the lift.

WickedShelby88
03-30-2007, 03:47 PM
Back when I lived in Indiana and worked at an independent shop we routinely swapped motors for less than 2k with a warranty and everything. I hate to see a guy whose just learning go through such a terrible experience. When I was growing up I heard of people and had friends parents go through things like that and I made a vow to myself to do all my own work. Good luck to you. At least you got the car out of there.

Subliminal
03-30-2007, 05:07 PM
Damn dude. That really sucks.

I guess that's why they call them 'stealerships'.

Anyway, I'm sure that with a little info, and a little help, you'll get that baby back on the road!

ShelbyGLHS324
03-30-2007, 08:37 PM
Wow, I would like to first thank everyone that provided me with good information. I know when I talked to Ken, he told me to check out this site. It seems like I would be in good hands here. I think I will have to give the DMV a call here in Iowa. It doesn't hurt to ask. From what I discussed with another person here at work, they told me the only reason they would have pulled the K frame and the Shocks off is to add up the labor. That's wrong. I only wanted the engine rebuilt. That means working on the engine, not the whole car. I know there are some other things that need to be tinkered with, but I was going to do those things myself, or wait until a later time to get it fixed. I feel that they had no right to tear my car apart like they did without permission. I understand you may need to take the engine out and the transmission, but the shocks, and the K-Frame. Come on, I am not mechanically inclined, but I know the shocks, and the frame have nothing to do with rebuilding the engine. I think they were looking at the dollar signs instead of taking care of what the customer asks.

It's almost like telling a doctor, I have a broken nose, and they do a complete face lift and charging you twice the amount it was originally going to cost. And, was unauthorized. I think the next thing is to contact a lawyer to find out what all of my options are, but I have also been advised to watch out for lawyers as well, they can be just a crooked as a mechanic. So, it's kind of a scary area to get into.

87glhs232
03-30-2007, 09:27 PM
They could be crooked, they are definitely retarded and didn't know what to do, most likely a bit of both. They should never have gone that deep. Jeez, as others have stated ALL that work and more could have been done IN car. The '87 FSM does not say remove the K-frame when dropping the engine out the bottom...or the top for that matter....though in and L-body it does make it easier coming out the bottom. If you want a copy of the factory service manual procedures for your case against them I'd be happy to scan it for you.
Man, what a story. Sorry you have to go through it, and really sorry it happened to your #'ed car. #232 is feeling your pain!

Welcome to the site. Your in good hands now. Any questions you have, post them up or feel free to PM me.

ShelbyGLHS324
03-30-2007, 09:34 PM
I would love to have a copy of the Factory Service manual Scanned for me. That would be awesome. Because, when I go to discuss this with a lawyer, it will help my case very much so. If you want to post the link here or eMail it to me. Either way would be fine with me. Just let me know.

87glhs232
03-30-2007, 09:41 PM
I would love to have a copy of the Factory Service manual Scanned for me. That would be awesome. Because, when I go to discuss this with a lawyer, it will help my case very much so. If you want to post the link here or eMail it to me. Either way would be fine with me. Just let me know.
PM me with your email addy.

87glhs232
03-30-2007, 10:55 PM
Nevermind the email, here they are. I included the cover and index so you and your lawyer can reference them if needed. Hope this helps!

'87 FSM Cover (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/682/Engine_Chassis_Body_Cover.jpg)
'87 FSM Index (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/682/Engine_Chassis_Body_Index.jpg)
Engine removal/install page 1 (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/682/Engine_Removal_Install_Pg_1.jpg)
Engine removal/install page 2 (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/682/Engine_Removal_Install_Pg_2.jpg)
Engine removal/install page 3 (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/photopost/data/682/Engine_Removal_Install_Pg_3_.jpg)

bobr19
03-31-2007, 09:19 AM
The FSM really doesn't say whether to remove it from top or bottom, just "remove engine from car" """"BUT""""" on install it does say lower engine into car, must be from the top:D ? bob

87glhs232
03-31-2007, 11:46 AM
Step 19

stitus
03-31-2007, 12:08 PM
I think Kevin needs a good old fashioned ----BEATING......I'm in Des Moines often and I live close enough! :P Anyway, man thats a terrible thing that happened to you! I have checked out a lot of TD's all over Iowa that were parked not long after having head and/or motor work (love back-yard shopping!) and in 7-8 years of doing so, I have come to the conclusion that your average shop just doesn't know what the hell they are doing with these cars! Vac lines are NEVER right for one thing, and often the owners were told by the shop that the car had problems it DIDN'T have! It's a miracle that I found a VNT GTC that had NEVER had the head off in 235,000 miles, and still runs close to stock times! (at least in the 1/8th as there isn't a 1/4 around where I live) Honestly, I know my info is probably rather useless to you at this point, but when you said you live in DM, I just had to give you a little support man! If you ever have any questions this is the place to be......welcome to the land of do-it-yourselfers! One more thing....before I finished this I called my boss who runs the shop I work in (in-house shop for a rock quarry btw) who has had years of experience working in dealerships, and running his own shop. As I suspected, since Iowa doesn't have yearly inspections, the DMV has NO jurisdiction in this case. Your BEST bet is the Better Business Bureau, assuming you didn't sign any paperwork from the shop before having them work on it. Good luck, let us know how it comes out!

ShelbyGLHS324
04-02-2007, 12:00 AM
I didn't sign any paperwork before they did the work... The just told me over the phone, then sent me the invoice.

BTW since you live in Des Moines, that would be awesome to have someone that is knowledgeable about these kind of cars to assist me on work on this. I would like to get a hold of you on the phone sometime stitus. Let me know if you are interested.

Thanks Brian.

1FastCSX289
04-02-2007, 07:36 AM
As I suspected, since Iowa doesn't have yearly inspections, the DMV has NO jurisdiction in this case. Your BEST bet is the Better Business Bureau, assuming you didn't sign any paperwork from the shop before having them work on it. Good luck, let us know how it comes out!


He needs to find out who LISCENSES shops to work on motor vehicles. Thats a seperate issue from inspections. In NY, DMV will get you if your doing inspections incorrectly, but they are also in charge of liscensing a shop to do ANY type of work on ANY motor vehicle. If the shop is reported to be screwing over customers or incompetent, they have the power to pull their liscense, even if they arent a registered inspection station (most likely, just a large fine the first time though). Two seperate issues. Either way, whoever is in charge of liscensing repair shops.......thats who you want to file your complaint with.

BBB only makes a difference is the shop cares what their BBB rating is. If the shop is crooked, chances are theyre not a BBB member anyways.

87glhs232
04-02-2007, 08:57 AM
Cali has a Bureau of Automotive Repair, seperate from the BBB or DMV. They register and regulate California automotive repair facilities, and license smog check, lamp and brake inspection stations. You can try looking for something similar.

stitus
04-02-2007, 12:05 PM
Unfortunately, Iowa doesn't have much in the way of consumer protection enforcement, this link should sum it up: http://www.state.ia.us/government/ag/consumer/advisories/auto_repair.html

1FastCSX289
04-02-2007, 12:47 PM
Seems like the attorney general is all you guys have.....bummer. I would still file with them.

I NY state, you mention the letters D.M.V to a shop about a complaint and they will bend over backwards to make it right!

ShelbyGLHS324
04-02-2007, 01:03 PM
I have sent in a complaint with the Attorney General. I haven't heard anything as of yet. But I am going to pursue this as long as I can. I don't feel that they should be able to get away with this. This is just wrong in every way shape and form.

turbovanmanČ
04-02-2007, 01:40 PM
Sorry that happened to you, the first price quoted is quite reasonable to have the engine rebuilt.

Now for the people saying they shouldn't have pulled the engine down that far, of course they should, how else are they going to find the damaged crankshaft. Remember, he ran it out of oil so you can't do a piston re and re in the car, the engine has to come out to replace or grind the crankshaft.

Good luck in getting her all fixed up. Any shots of the broken/twisted #1 piston?

ShelbyGLHS324
04-02-2007, 03:07 PM
I believe what they were saying is that the K-Frame should not have had to come out, nor did the Shocks and the tires. I was also quoted $3,500. to do the rebuild and then the rate comes to $7,200. That's a complete difference.. They are crooked...

turbovanmanČ
04-02-2007, 03:45 PM
I believe what they were saying is that the K-Frame should not have had to come out, nor did the Shocks and the tires. I was also quoted $3,500. to do the rebuild and then the rate comes to $7,200. That's a complete difference.. They are crooked...

I agree on the K-member stuff and that they got greedy.

Turbodave
04-02-2007, 03:47 PM
I believe what they were saying is that the K-Frame should not have had to come out, nor did the Shocks and the tires. I was also quoted $3,500. to do the rebuild and then the rate comes to $7,200. That's a complete difference.. They are crooked...


I think I remember watching an old chrysler training video where they showed how to remove the drivetrain and dropped the K-frame and struts like they did on your GLHS. While it's certainly not the way I would do it, when they are doing things with a lift, power tools and what-not, it doesn't add much time, and again most dealerships haven't worked on one of these cars in 10+ years. Knowing the turnover at most dealerships, you would be lucky if any one there was even working on mopars 10 years ago.

$7200 for them to do the rebuild and install is a lot of money, but not out of line with what I would expect from a dealership. A local dealer quoted a friend of mine just over 10k to replace a 3.0 V6 in a 94 Lebaron a year or so ago. That's why I do my own work.

I've got a friend in Des Moines that knows these cars pretty well, he's not online, but I need to talk to him this week about some parts. If you PM me your phone number I'll pass it on and try to have him contact you.

1FastCSX289
04-02-2007, 06:23 PM
Now for the people saying they shouldn't have pulled the engine down that far, of course they should, how else are they going to find the damaged crankshaft. Remember, he ran it out of oil so you can't do a piston re and re in the car, the engine has to come out to replace or grind the crankshaft.
?

Good point. Yea, the engine would have to come out. Either way....they were trying to rip you. The only way I can see them coming up with a $7200tag is if they were using all New Chrysler parts or a new long block or something. Even then, $7200 is just ridiculous. Whats deceptive about the whole thing is that the original quote was 3k. Then, once the whole car is apart, now it jumps to 7k. Huh? I could see if they were 500 or so over budget, thats understandable. But DOUBLE? Thats just robbery.

Anonymous_User
04-02-2007, 07:15 PM
My biggest issue is the price jump. You can pull the pan and see that the engine is going to need rebuilt. You can sit down and work up a quote. You give the customer a quote and ask for a deposit. THEN you more than double the quote and refuse to refund the deposit?

ShelbyGLHS324
04-02-2007, 08:26 PM
That's exactly what happened. Des Moines Chrysler is complete robbery. I think I am going to try to get all of the news channels in line to see if one of them will hear my story. I sent the message to one of our local news channels (KCCI), and never heard from them. So, I will get all of the new channels a little buzz in there ear. It doesn't hurt. But if I get one of them to inquire about the story, I am sure that it will get all of their attention. I want bad news to be spread about these guys. It's totally crazy on what they did, I can't stress enough about it. I think that if I don't hear from the better business bureau with in the next 2 weeks, I am going to take the $50.00 I have and file a small claims suit.

Tomorrow I am going to go and look at my engine block and find out what they are saying on the invoice if the pistons are turned sideways... I will be taking pictures all the way. If I move something a picture will be taken. If I clean something a picture will be taken all the way. I am not done with Des Moines Chrysler until I get what I deserve, and that is my money back.

stitus
04-02-2007, 11:15 PM
Hate to say it, but it might be worth your time to check into the ownership side of things.... big business might have big downtown connections if you know what I mean :-/ If you can trace the politics, then you might have an answer as to how hard anyone is going to work to get you your money back. But who knows, there are probably tons of claims like yours filed everyday, and the timeframe probably won't be to your liking either way :( Just remember, if they can tie you up in court long enough, the money you get back will have been wasted in GETTING it back! Just keep hounding the BBB and the Attorney General's office, I would do more than make phone calls too. A personal appearance at both offices can often get things moving a little faster too.
On a side note, I don't actually live in DM, I live about 90miles away, but I make trips to DM often for business.

ShelbyGLHS324
04-03-2007, 01:44 AM
thanks for the tip stitus... I will have to start making phone calls tomorrow. I don't like waiting too long for things. Once things get started I like to get them finished right away. Like my Shelby. I haven't started to work on it just yet, because once I start on it I will want to get it completed. I am currently in the process of seeing if I can get a higher paying job that will help me finance getting the Shelby working again. Right now I don't make that much money. The money I did have was my tax money, and next years taxes are going to be for buying a house. So I have to get the Shelby is a status of being transfered by next year. That is part of my motivation.

Here is the email that I received from the Better Business Bureau.....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Complaint ID#: 32027598
Business Name: Des Moines Chrysler Plymouth Inc

Thank you for contacting the Better Business Bureau. Your complaint was received by the Bureau on March 26, 2007 and has been assigned case# 32027598in our files. Please make a note of this number for future reference.

Your complaint has been applied to the following business:
Des Moines Chrysler Plymouth Inc
P O Box 13377
Des Moines, IA 50310-0377

The case has been reviewed by one of our Complaint Specialists and has now been forwarded to the business for their response. Please let us know if the company should contact you. We will notify you of any response we receive. You should allow at least 30 days.

We encourage you to use our ONLINE COMPLAINT system to keep up with the progress of this complaint. To view the details of your case please go to the following website address: http://www.iowa.bbb.org/complaint/view/32027598/c/vdvzkp .

Sincerely,

Sandy DeVore
Manager
BBB Complaint Department
sandy@dm.bbb.org

ShelbyGLHS324
04-03-2007, 01:49 AM
Here is the response from the Better Business Bureau that Des Moines Chrysler had provided....

Contact Name and Title: Mark Kavaya, Ser Mgr
Contact Phone: 515-270-5805
Contact Email: mkavaya@dmcp.com
Brian downard did bring his vehicle to us with a initial quote to just overhaul his engine. Apon recieving it there was more damage to the motor than Brian indicated over the phone. At that time a call was made to Brian and explained what our initial daignoises had led us to. It was also explained that the engine needed to be removed and dissassembled for a accurate estimate. The cost for this would run up to $1,000 dollars which had to be paid up front. Brain agreed and paid the $1,000 dollars. After the tear down and inspection it was discovered the #1 rod had twisted and broke damaging the crankshaft, block and clyinder head. A complete engine was needed to repair this. We also looked the vehicle over to find the power steering pump and gear were leaking fluid, the outer tie rod ends were loose and lower ball joints were loose. This was done as a courtesy to give Brian a overall picture of the condition of his vehicle before any repairs were made. Nothing was removed that was not neccessary to remove and dissasemble the engine as to diagnois it's condition correctly. Quotes were given both ways, #1 replacement of engine without other needed safty items repaired and #2 replacement of engine with the safty items repaired. Brian was explained the difference of an engine overhaul and what it included in an engine overhaul up front before the vehicle ever came to us. Apon initial diagnoises it was obvious to us there was more serious problems with the motor. Without complete tear down a accurate assesment of damage could not be done nor could an accurate estimate be given.
Brian never made any statements to us about misleading or misquoting him and his only problem was coming up with the money for the repairs. He was trying to get money from his 401k and other areas to have his vehicle repaired.

As for the request to reassembly of the vehicle we advised against it but did communicate that it would be about the same money to reassemble as what was quoted to disassemble vehicle for diagnoises.

Brian was quoted up front of costs he would incure, his misdiagnoises of needing a engine overhaul verus a engine repplacement is not something we could tell via the phone. A upfront cost of teardown for diagnoises was given and followed. Advise was given to avoid extra cost with out repairing anything. Vehicle was removed and stored on the owners property until funds are available for repair.

Des Moines Chrysler was fair in it's dealings with Brian in reguards to his 87 Shelby Dodge Charger. Des Moines Chrysler also feels no refund or adjustment is warranted.

87glhs232
04-03-2007, 08:53 PM
So right now you are out $1000?

As for damage to the engine, I think we all would like to see the pics. If you paid $1000 for a disassembly and diagnosis, well then you got one. As far as the estimate to repair it all, we need to know whats wrong with the engine before a fair assesment can be made.

1FastCSX289
04-03-2007, 09:01 PM
I would go after the point that he made in regards to "Nothing was removed that was not neccessary to remove and dissasemble the engine as to diagnois it's condition correctly." I would argue that simply dropping the oil pan and pulling the cylinder head would have led to an accurate diagnosis of the condition of the engine. To take a customer's diagnosis over the phone and assume that the engine had to be removed is unprofessional. A good repair facility would have been able to diagnose that problem within about 2-3hours of disassembly ($2-$300) and would have left the vehicle in-tact enough to tow.

P.S. I am ASE certified in engine repair and would be willing to help you out with a wording a letter if you want, just shoot me a PM.

slasky
04-03-2007, 09:03 PM
I would go after the point that he made in regards to "Nothing was removed that was not neccessary to remove and dissasemble the engine as to diagnois it's condition correctly." I would argue that simply dropping the oil pan and pulling the cylinder head would have led to an accurate diagnosis of the condition of the engine. To take a customer's diagnosis over the phone and assume that the engine had to be removed is unprofessional. A good repair facility would have been able to diagnose that problem within about 2-3hours of disassembly ($2-$300) and would have left the vehicle in-tact enough to tow.

P.S. I am ASE certified in engine repair and would be willing to help you out with a wording a letter if you want, just shoot me a PM.
+1
They should not have removed the engine.

shelby zed
04-03-2007, 09:29 PM
brutal man, he should really learn to spell also. id go with 1fastcsx, sounds like he can help you out

ShelbyGLHS324
04-03-2007, 10:20 PM
I will have to check into this with a lawyer, I didn't get a chance to do it today... But I will call tomorrow I will be looking up a list of lawyers to find out which one would be right for me. I did put in a reply to there response with the Better Business Bureau. Look as some of their wording... where they are now starting to trap themselves... I quote... "We also looked the vehicle over to find the power steering pump and gear were leaking fluid, the outer tie rod ends were loose and lower ball joints were loose. This was done as a courtesy to give Brian a overall picture of the condition of his vehicle before any repairs were made." A courtesy? I didn't ask for courtesy work. I wanted the engine rebuilt. I told them I didn't know what was wrong, I told them about the loud ticking... from talking to all of you, and what I have read. A trained technician should have known that noise was coming from the engine block. And all they would have to do is remove the head and the oil pan to get a good look. That is it.

And another quote they stated... "Brian was explained the difference of an engine overhaul and what it included in an engine overhaul up front before the vehicle ever came to us." That was never explained to me. I mean NEVER. I was just told that it could be done.

Another quote they stated... "As for the request to reassembly of the vehicle we advised against it but did communicate that it would be about the same money to reassemble as what was quoted to disassemble vehicle for diagnoses." Wrong... this was never told to me I was only told to come and look at the automobile, and was never given an answer on the if they would be able to put it back together except for, "I don't believe that can be done."

They are lying, and with that information that they are stating to the Better Business Bureau is going to throw it back into my court. I think now that they are lying to the BBB, and there now is a paper trail of it. I think it's time to pull in the big boys. A lawyer will be contacted tomorrow. I am going to enjoy bringing then some bad publicity.

stitus
04-04-2007, 08:26 PM
I was just reviewing your original story, and according to what you said, your car still RAN when you parked it! If there was a damn cylinder wedged sideways in the block, it wouldn't have run at all! However, if it did NOT run when you parked it and they were right about the block being severly damaged beyond repair.... in my experience a piston that wedges sideways in the bore generally winds up blasting a hole in the block and/or the pan as the rod has to go somewhere when the crank shaft comes around again............ According to the pics on your link, I couldn't really see any physical damage to the outside of the block or pan. Do you have any pics of the evidence that the piston was actually wedged in the block? These are very important facts as it will basically be your word against theirs. If you can prove that their diagnosis was at best a little far-fetched, that would be a HUGE discredit to their entire case. Damn it, what am I doing turning wrenches? PUT ME IN THAT COURT ROOM! j/k Can you take some pics of the bore itself? Pics of the rods would be great also. Though a personal visual inspection would be preferred as THEY might have finished off that engine by running it. Since it sat for a year, any breaks, cracks, etc. can sometimes be evaluated as to how long ago they actually broke... There are other signs as well, various types of corrosion might exist in certain areas. The head and parts of the block should be drier than normal etc. Basically, in my opinion, if you told them it needed diagnosed and they broke it to the point of no return, then THEY SHOULD FOOT THE BILL!

ShelbyGLHS324
04-04-2007, 08:47 PM
The weather is kind of cold out where I am located at right now. So, I haven't gone outside to evaluate the damage inside the engine block.

As far as the car. It did run when I parked it. It just had a lot of oil leaking and a loud knocking sound. If they did try to turn it over at any time. The case will automatically fall in my hands, without a doubt. Because I told them that the car had a huge oil leak at the current time, and how long the car had been sitting, and the noise I advised them about.

I did send an email to a Lawyer, in Des Moines, today. I just haven't heard anything back from them as of yet. I am going to guess that I probably won't hear anything until maybe Thursday or Friday. If I don't hear from them by then. I will give them a call on Monday to find out the status.

I am going to be getting an engine stand, so I can mount the engine up so I can get a better look at it and better pictures of them.

1FastCSX289
04-04-2007, 09:20 PM
Damn it, what am I doing turning wrenches? PUT ME IN THAT COURT ROOM! j/k !


:lol: I feel the same way! I did this one time for a colleague who got the special "grenaded tranfer case package" when she went into Valvoline Instant Oil Change to have her fluids checked. She sued in small claims court because they pulled the wrong plug (detent for shifter linkage) and smoked the TC. I was the "expert witness". I had the transfer case all apart on a bench in the court room and I was going toe to toe with Valvoline's "MASTER" tech witness. We slaughtered them and my colleague went home with 2500 bucks. I had a freakin blast and I would do it again in a heart beat! Too bad youre in Iowa!

ShelbyGLHS324
04-04-2007, 10:47 PM
Yea, I think that I will be getting some money back if not all. They completely did things wrong. I will be seeing what the lawyer says. Once I get done talking to the lawyer I will keep everyone posted on the status. This might get very interesting. I will not stray away from Mopar by any means. But, this makes me upset that Chrysler is hiring people like this. I also have a 1994 Mitsubishi Eclipse that I want to get up and running again. I know that the engine in that car locked up. So, there is no mistaking what went wrong with that car. So, once I get my Shelby up and running I will be working on that car as well. I just hate the fact that we have cold weather around here that limits me from working in the garage.

ShelbyGLHS324
04-17-2007, 05:31 PM
Alright here is the status... I took the oil pan off the engine block, and looked inside. It is true that the crank shaft is messed up, but the pistions as they say was turned sideways is incorrect. They are still intact. The bolts to take off to remove the crank shaft I see are 16mm. Those suckers are a bear to come off. How has anyone else taken those off? Do I need a power tool to remove them?

Also the engine block from what I can see is just fine... the only way that they would be able to see that it was messed up is from the sheddings from the metal that was all over the crank shaft. That's the only thing that I can see. I can completely understand that the engine would have to come out to repair the crank shaft. But the other stuff like the shocks was completely unnecessary.

1FastCSX289
04-17-2007, 07:30 PM
Alright here is the status... I took the oil pan off the engine block, and looked inside. It is true that the crank shaft is messed up, but the pistions as they say was turned sideways is incorrect. They are still intact. The bolts to take off to remove the crank shaft I see are 16mm. Those suckers are a bear to come off. How has anyone else taken those off? Do I need a power tool to remove them?

Also the engine block from what I can see is just fine... the only way that they would be able to see that it was messed up is from the sheddings from the metal that was all over the crank shaft. That's the only thing that I can see. I can completely understand that the engine would have to come out to repair the crank shaft. But the other stuff like the shocks was completely unnecessary.


Double check that size on the main saddle bolts. They are torque'd down pretty tight, but they will come off with a good size breaker bar. TAKE PICS while you disassemble and post them.

The whole thing is ridiculous. Its obvious they were lying from the start and looking to take you for a ride. If they were just looking to get you an honest estimate, all they had to do was pull the oil pan and maybe the head while the engine was still in the car. 2-2.5 hours TOPS. That estimate shouldnt have cost more than 200 bucks. And the car should still be very towable. Period. No question about it.

moparman76_69
04-17-2007, 08:16 PM
wait how do you determine the rod is broken and the piston sideways with the oil pan on?

ShelbyGLHS324
04-18-2007, 10:11 AM
The oil pan was taken off yesterday... I took pictures of everything I will be posting it to my site later on today... I will be taking pictures the whole way...

Oh, by the way. My sister who's future husband is a car dealer and says I have a good chance in small claims court. So, when I get the $50 to file it I am going to do that first thing.... I get paid this Friday, I am going to call the court house and find out all the details about filing. I don't want to screw anything up...

ShelbyGLHS324
04-18-2007, 10:12 AM
Double check that size on the main saddle bolts. They are torque'd down pretty tight, but they will come off with a good size breaker bar. TAKE PICS while you disassemble and post them.

The whole thing is ridiculous. Its obvious they were lying from the start and looking to take you for a ride. If they were just looking to get you an honest estimate, all they had to do was pull the oil pan and maybe the head while the engine was still in the car. 2-2.5 hours TOPS. That estimate shouldnt have cost more than 200 bucks. And the car should still be very towable. Period. No question about it.

What's a breaker bar?

1FastCSX289
04-18-2007, 10:21 AM
What's a breaker bar?

A long ratchet type handle for increased leverage.

ShelbyGLHS324
04-18-2007, 10:25 AM
Oh, I see I think I can manage that...

Anonymous_User
04-18-2007, 10:27 AM
What's a breaker bar?

No offense, but you should really find someone to help you.

1.) It does not appear that you have much automotive/mechanical experience. You don't want to make it worse than it is.

2.) If you are planning to go to court, you don't want to be told that you made mistakes working on it yourself. I could see where that could come back to bite you.

Good luck!

ShelbyGLHS324
04-18-2007, 12:02 PM
I figure that the only way to learn is to jump in there and get started... I am sure there was a point and time where everyone on this list didn't know a thing about automotive, and I am sure that they didn't learn when someone came in to help them and do it for them. I know that it's your honest opinion. I have the pictures to back me up and I have the details on what they said on the Better Business Bureau website. They are digging themselves a hole every time they try to prove their case.

I really want to learn and make things better. I live by the belief that if you want something done right you have to do it yourself. If you don't know how to do it yourself, then that is a learning opportunity.

1FastCSX289
04-18-2007, 01:01 PM
I figure that the only way to learn is to jump in there and get started... I am sure there was a point and time where everyone on this list didn't know a thing about automotive, and I am sure that they didn't learn when someone came in to help them and do it for them. I know that it's your honest opinion. I have the pictures to back me up and I have the details on what they said on the Better Business Bureau website. They are digging themselves a hole every time they try to prove their case.

I really want to learn and make things better. I live by the belief that if you want something done right you have to do it yourself. If you don't know how to do it yourself, then that is a learning opportunity.


I agree that you should get in their to LEARN about your car. Absolultely. These cars are pretty easy to work on and a great way to get started.

HOWEVER, if you plan to win in court, youre going to need a professional opinion on the matter. The dealership will most likely have an expert witness and he/she will eat you alive in the courtroom unless you have someone to state your case. You have a VERY solid case, but you need a professional on your side or you will lose. The dealership can say whatever they want and the judge will hear it unless there is cerified expertise on your side. (Forum print outs dont count :lol: ). So, if you do decide to go further by yourself, find someone who can at least examine the engine while its still realtively in-tact to give you a written statement on business letterhead.

Scottmon
04-23-2007, 08:44 AM
Changing the subject a bit, if you want to work on the car yourself by all means buy the '87 shop manual. Read the sections on whatever you plan to work on so you'll understand what you need to do. Guessing doesn't cut it if you want it to go back together right and stay that way.

Besides, if the dealer didn't follow procedure in the factory shop manual, how can the dealership claim what they did was necessary???? Dealer tech could argue till he's blue in the face, but the guys that engineered the car wrote the manual and would pretty much be the final authority on any procedures.

ShelbyGLHS324
04-23-2007, 09:02 AM
I do have a manual for the 87' Shelbys. I think I should be alright with them. There are 3 of them that I have. But, my landlord is being an jerk and is starting to push the subject that he doesn't want any cars on the property that don't run. I only have 2 words when it come to my Shelby, and my landlord telling me I will have to get rid of it. They start with the letters F and Y. I will never give my Shelby GLH-S up. That's why I need to start working on it so he knows that it will be running with in due time.

1FastCSX289
04-23-2007, 10:01 AM
I do have a manual for the 87' Shelbys. I think I should be alright with them. There are 3 of them that I have. But, my landlord is being an jerk and is starting to push the subject that he doesn't want any cars on the property that don't run. I only have 2 words when it come to my Shelby, and my landlord telling me I will have to get rid of it. They start with the letters F and Y. I will never give my Shelby GLH-S up. That's why I need to start working on it so he knows that it will be running with in due time.


I would just get another used long block for cheap and slam it together. Should be able to knock it out in a couple weekends. Leave the original engine alone. If it goes to court, than bring it to a certified tech that can help you back your case.

turbovanmanČ
04-23-2007, 04:45 PM
I can't stress enough whats been said about knowing your facts. I have been to small claims court and won. Take lots of photo's and take 3 of each, one for you, one for them and one for the judge-sometimes they want it. Take notes and keep calm. Heresay will not work, you can't go, "well he said they screwed up", or a printed document saying the same is no go. To use witness's, they need to be there so they can be cross examined. If you know a certified mechanic, thats great but he HAS to show up.

87glhs232
04-23-2007, 08:56 PM
If you need to get your car in working order in a hurry buying another motor is your best bet. You can get a remanufactured turbo long block for around $1500. Or you can get a junkyard motor for a lot less. Then you can leisurely rebuild the original.