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View Full Version : FWD Traction In Winter



Whorse
12-21-2005, 01:28 AM
Well, kind of linked to my last thread, but a bit more broad.

Problem:

3500lbs with 175hp in near freezing weather and pouring rain.

This is winter around here, and there's lots more of it to come, with some snow once or twice, and a few bouts of black ice. What do those of you living in winter plagued areas do with your vehicles to improve your traction and braking in the winter?

Right now I have some good all season tires on which grip nice in the summer, but seem to stick very well to wet roads in the rain. I've yet to try them in the ice or snow, and we don't get much of either so it's not really great to get snow tires here as they don't seem to do is well in my experience (with the wet roads and no snow).

cordes
12-21-2005, 01:50 AM
If you don't get much ice or snow, I would just slow down.

Even in MI, there are only a few mornings out of the year where it can be a problem getting around. Of course my shadow will push snow with the front bumper for over 100MI with relativly few problems.:cool:

Whorse
12-21-2005, 01:57 AM
Generally I'm not going fast, but I've locked up the wheels going down a hill before an intersection at 50km/h before which isn't that fast for the roads where everyone wants me to be going 80.

beavis1313
12-21-2005, 03:34 AM
the best place to start is to get good tires
I like the BFG Traction TA they work good on my van in wet,dry and snow

Whorse
12-21-2005, 04:00 AM
Right now I have a couple of Falken's up front and some Canadian Tire Predator Radials on the back. (Front right got a bulge, replaced front 2 because I couldn't afford to replace all 4).

persalls
12-21-2005, 05:07 AM
hi guys!

I live in southern Sweden and with temperatures between +10 to -10 degrees Celsius I think I have a good idea of your situation. First of all the chassis including brakes and steering needs to be in good condition and then you need to have tyres for the season. "All seasons" are NO seasons in my opinon !.
In Sweden we have a "winter tire " law stating that between december 1st to april last you must use "M+S for winter use" during snowy and icy conditions. This leads many people to just throw on the set of winter-wheels and run as if it was summer...
You yourself need to be the judge of the situation and remember to drive the car, not just be inside and tune the radio or whatever :-)
Then it´s a good idea to put the best tyres in the rear to avoid hard to control overstear even if it goes against your gut it´s, for most drivers and conditions, the best way !

A soft tire with alot of cutting( don´t know what you call it !) or, if possible, a soft tire with studs is generally the best choice with a lot of black ice issues.

Hope this will help you in some way !

Best wishes, Per from Sweden

vxvxAndrewxvxv
12-21-2005, 10:43 AM
could always go with studded tires, or you could throw a set of tire chains in the trunk for those bad days. they take about 10 minutes to install. When i was in oregon, they were mandatory to either have studded tires, or tire chains in the trunk incase. Strange people they are... they bearly ever get snow or ice...

cordes
12-21-2005, 12:03 PM
The cuts in tires are called sipes, and be sure to check your local laws regarding studed snow tires. The penalties are pretty severe if you get busted running them.

+1 for running the best tires in the rear.

Mario
12-21-2005, 12:41 PM
Instead of locking up your brakes immediately, try downshifting.

Dietro
12-21-2005, 12:55 PM
Then it´s a good idea to put the best tyres in the rear to avoid hard to control overstear even if it goes against your gut it´s, for most drivers and conditions, the best way !

He's exactly correct. Actually the best idea would be the one he said before, and that's use a "winter" tire on all four wheels. Used to be called snow tires, but now they offer tires that are good in snow, and decent enough in rain to be used during the winter months.

The reason to put the "better" tires on the rear is so that it stays in the rear on corners. ;) Hydroplanning or front wheel drifting are much easier to recover from than an "end around"...

turbovanman²
12-21-2005, 01:39 PM
Yep, funny but true, best tires on the rear. Another good trick it to load up the rear with blocks or sand bags, helps with braking as the lighter back end doesn't want to lock up and swing out. I had a 90 Grand Am 5 spd that I took everywhere and never got stuck. I had aprox 20-30lbs over each rear wheel, good A/S all around and had a blast with it. I carried chains but never used them. I do the same with my van as the back end loves to swing out around corners and under braking.

cordes
12-21-2005, 01:43 PM
I really need to print this thread out to show to my customers. They don't buy the best two in the rear buisness, and apparently the POS material from michelin and bridgestone is not enough for them.:rolleyes:

Garret
12-21-2005, 03:47 PM
I don't buy into the "best two" in the rear on a FWD car that's old school preaching. and Sand in the rear? What a crock. In manitoba we get TONS of snow every year with temps reaching as low as -50c with the windchill. I think I know a thing or two about snow driving. My advice is 4 Snow tires on all corners run as narrow as you can. I personally run 195/60/15s on a set of crab rims in the wintertime and since I was 16 i've been winter driving a daytona and have not got stuck once. Go to walmart and buy a set of their cheapie winter tires. Brand new offbrand snow tires are better than even the best brand name all season tires. Buy two if you're cheap, but if you're that cheap wait until feb when walmart has the snow tires on sale and you can get 4 for the price of two. Remember for winter, Narrow snow tires on your front tires will do fantastic. BUT 4 snow tires is AMAZING I drive like it's summer all year round. FYI I've never had a problem with the rear end going sideways while stopping with just two snow tires up front. The reason why the rear end would be kicking out is because the front isn't doing it's job

Will Martin
12-21-2005, 04:13 PM
Well Jason, I've driven with you before so if that's any indication of how you're driving now then SLOW DOWN! LOL Just kidding. It's not too bad out in B.C. now. Actually, it's pretty warm with a bit of drizzle which isn't too bad.

Whorse
12-21-2005, 04:56 PM
Haha you were the one telling me to peg the boost gauge. The winters here aren't that cold with not much snow and snow tires generally suck for wet rain traction, which is what we usually have here. My biggest problem is usually just the brakes locking going down a wet hill or something along those lines. Never had any trouble with cornering or getting grip accelerating in the slick.

turbovanman²
12-21-2005, 05:40 PM
I don't buy into the "best two" in the rear on a FWD car that's old school preaching. and Sand in the rear? What a crock.


Ok, wanna drive my van in the snow? guarantee you it will take 10 secs and you'll crash it, don't bash good advice, it works, it helps and especially if he's too cheap to buy real snow tires, which around the Lower Mainland, is a waste of money.
But if you are buying real snow tires, then I would put them on the driven axles as Garrett said.

puppet
12-21-2005, 07:22 PM
Nothing will wear out a snow tire faster than running on regular pavement Whorse (as in, no snow). Your best bet would be the set of chains like vxvxAndrewxvxv suggested.

For the rest of us with pretty heavy snow, Garret's advice is right on. If you have only two "snow" tires ... put them on the driven axle.

Garret
12-21-2005, 10:04 PM
Ok, wanna drive my van in the snow? guarantee you it will take 10 secs and you'll crash it, don't bash good advice, it works, it helps and especially if he's too cheap to buy real snow tires, which around the Lower Mainland, is a waste of money.
But if you are buying real snow tires, then I would put them on the driven axles as Garrett said.

Okay I'll drive your van in the snow and I'll pull some mad tyte JDM style Drifts with it LOL

But seriously Never had that issue with any cars here in a Manitoba winter, I don't know what a BC winter is like but I doubt it's like Manitoba :) Your winter is warmer then our summer LOL

turbovanman²
12-21-2005, 10:35 PM
Okay I'll drive your van in the snow and I'll pull some mad tyte JDM style Drifts with it LOL

But seriously Never had that issue with any cars here in a Manitoba winter, I don't know what a BC winter is like but I doubt it's like Manitoba :) Your winter is warmer then our summer LOL


Hahaaha, yeah, its fun but with no rear power, its hard to get the back end in line, :eyebrows:

The weight really works, I do alot of mountain driving, and remember, you have no hills/mountains, your steepest grade is a speed bump, :eyebrows:

Garret
12-21-2005, 10:47 PM
I wouldn't be so sure of that, but the elevation changes are surely different, we got a lil more than a speedbump... You're thinking of saskatchewan

Whorse
12-22-2005, 03:21 PM
Well on my drive to work I have about 3 10% grade hills, a river to cross by ferry, couple bridges, some downhill corners that lead to a bridge (I've seen a lot of people slide out here), and many stoplights with no amber warning lights before them. Still, all pavement and rarely snow. I don't think we even get enough snow to warrant chains to be honest, maybe a couple inches if we do get any. I've driven my white car with horrible tires in the snow here on the way home and it was actually pretty good and lots of fun.

MiniMopar
12-22-2005, 07:17 PM
I have Blizzaks on my winter car. They are quite amazing in snow...like driving on wet pavement in the summer and do better than any tire I have ever used on icy roads. You have to take it easy though and they will ear out fast if you drive hard once the roads are dry. Just have to hold-back until summer. They also make the car handle like crap, but you shouldn't be pushing them so hard anyway.

They last at least two seasons, four if you are easy on them and put them on as late in the season as possible (and take them off as soon as you dare).

Greedy
12-22-2005, 07:42 PM
I use skinny tires(205/70/14) on my Turbo Mini and if the weather is going to be bad I throw my heavy floor jack(and any other heavy stuff I can find) in the back over the tires and it works great.
I may try a set of "cheapie" winter tires next year!!

afsautoworx
12-24-2005, 02:41 AM
All of u guys talking about the best tires on the rear is definatley right. In maine it is illegal to put just two studded tires on the front of a fwd car. You can have two studded snows on the rear and all seasons on the front but not the other way around.

shelbyplaya
12-25-2005, 03:17 PM
Haha you were the one telling me to peg the boost gauge. .


yeah. i can see will saying that:thumb:

Whorse
12-26-2005, 03:42 AM
No, not our buddy Will. We all know how tamely he drives his 12 second omni and SRT4 Rampage. He'd NEVER tell me to peg my boost gauge...especially not in a VNT...

turbovanman²
12-29-2005, 05:25 PM
Well, just got back from Sunpeaks, all seasons on the back, true winter tires on the front, lots of weight at the rear, 3-4 inchs of new snow and bare icy patches over the Coqahuila with mega steep hills and no issues.

Whorse
12-29-2005, 10:18 PM
That's kind of interesting, I've always heard that FWD cars want all the weight at the front, but around here I doubt many people know what they're talking about when it comes to snow. Nice work Simon.

turbovanman²
12-29-2005, 10:27 PM
No problem. :thumb:

I over analyse everything but this is what I think and it seems to work.
1) You have TONS of weight over the front wheels, its called AN ENGINE, lol
2) The weight split is bad on FWD cars and Vans, theres nothing over the rear wheels-this causes 2 problems-back end slide out going around corners, and it causes the rear brakes to lock up prematurely and again, the back end slides out. This is really bad when going down hills, your on the brakes and next thing you know-the rear end is sliding sideways-what do you do, get off the brakes and now your moving faster, hit the brakes, slide out, etc.

Adding weight to the back stops #2 from happening. It safer and the car/van feels more solid.

You can agree to disagree but with my Old Grand Am and my Van, it works as stated by my drive over the mountains, lol :thumb:

bfarroo
01-06-2006, 11:54 PM
The skinniest tires possible on the front is the way to go. I ran 185/75 14's on my Shelby Z for 3 winters and had very little trouble in the snow. This is when I lived in Marquette MI while going to school up there. usuall 250+ inches of snow. The only place I ever got stuck was in our town house parking lot. We lived on a double wide road and when the snow plows came by they put 2 passes of snow in our driveway! One problem is the 14's won't clear the rear calipers so I ran the stock 225/50 15's on the back. It wasn't bad although I mostly did city driving so the back passing up the front in a corner wasn't a big consern. made some interesting fwd drifting when the snow got deep!

cordes
01-06-2006, 11:57 PM
The skinniest tires possible on the front is the way to go. I ran 185/75 14's on my Shelby Z for 3 winters and had very little trouble in the snow. This is when I lived in Marquette MI while going to school up there. usuall 250+ inches of snow. The only place I ever got stuck was in our town house parking lot. We lived on a double wide road and when the snow plows came by they put 2 passes of snow in our driveway! One problem is the 14's won't clear the rear calipers so I ran the stock 225/50 15's on the back. It wasn't bad although I mostly did city driving so the back passing up the front in a corner wasn't a big consern. made some interesting fwd drifting when the snow got deep!


Most guys I know that went to northern switched to jeeps. This is obviously a very good setup.