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shad0w2.s_tur80
03-22-2007, 05:45 PM
now i ve been doing some reading on this and its defintaly somthing i would consider doing. but id like to know i ve got all my facts right befor i even think about it due to the damage it can cause to my engine and i am geting realy fed up whit my car being down more than i drive it.
i ve heard
- that a stock engine can handel a 50-75 shot no problem
- wet is the best way to go due to fuel issues
- use a wot OLNY
- place jet 5- 6 inches for the tb
- push bottons arent the best idea to use
-never leve the bottel open whit out the engine runing

what i want to know is
- who makes the best kit for the money
- how much is "safe" to run along with 14 psi intercooled on a stock 2.5 cb
- what kinda gains would i see
- is it more trouble than its worth
- anything esle thats imporant to know (withc is proably alot seeings as i cant find too much info)

thank you for any input at all

Tony Hanna
03-22-2007, 06:04 PM
One thing I can add is that an rpm activated switch would be really nice.
If you're just using a WOT switch or even a WOT switch and a pushbutton, it's way too easy to trigger the nitrous at too low of RPMs. Then you get a nitrous backfire which can destroy stuff in a hurry. I've had it happen. It completely destroyed the factory air intake from the throttlebody to the filter on my 95 z28. Something like that on a turbo car would have to be absolute murder on the turbo.

85glht
03-22-2007, 06:15 PM
now i ve been doing some reading on this and its defintaly somthing i would consider doing. but id like to know i ve got all my facts right befor i even think about it due to the damage it can cause to my engine and i am geting realy fed up whit my car being down more than i drive it.
i ve heard
- that a stock engine can handel a 50-75 shot no problem
- wet is the best way to go due to fuel issues
- use a wot OLNY
- place jet 5- 6 inches for the tb
- push bottons arent the best idea to use
-never leve the bottel open whit out the engine runing

what i want to know is
- who makes the best kit for the money
- how much is "safe" to run along with 14 psi intercooled on a stock 2.5 cb
- what kinda gains would i see
- is it more trouble than its worth
- anything esle thats imporant to know (withc is proably alot seeings as i cant find too much info)

thank you for any input at all


I'm running a NOS kit. It is a 60 h.p. shot. It turned a 12.50 to an 11.50 and 110 mph went to 119.8. So I'll say that it is worth the money.

With that said, you may want to make sure that your engine is "up to snuff". In other words, if it is tired and smoking and has all sorts of issues...... this will not solve your problems, it will create more.

All the points that you have posted are true. I believe that your engine should be o.k. with 14 psi and a 50 h.p. shot..... think about it, it is only and extra 12.5 h.p. per cylinder.

Nitous also gets the turbo spooled up a lot quicker too. There are many positives and also some negatives. Good luck and feel free to ask more questions as they come. :thumb:

shad0w2.s_tur80
03-22-2007, 06:19 PM
One thing I can add is that an rpm activated switch would be really nice.
If you're just using a WOT switch or even a WOT switch and a pushbutton, it's way too easy to trigger the nitrous at too low of RPMs. Then you get a nitrous backfire which can destroy stuff in a hurry. I've had it happen. It completely destroyed the factory air intake from the throttlebody to the filter on my 95 z28. Something like that on a turbo car would have to be absolute murder on the turbo.

explaine this nitrous back fire i ve heard very littel about them it sounds prety bad

WVRampage
03-22-2007, 06:56 PM
I am using the NOS kit and it works fine.I figure a nitrous back fire would blow the I/C pipes off.What the Nitrous back fire is,Its a back fire with the nitrous and fuel added to it,so it will put alot of pressure in the intake area.

shad0w2.s_tur80
03-22-2007, 07:00 PM
I am using the NOS kit and it works fine.I figure a nitrous back fire would blow the I/C pipes off.What the Nitrous back fire is,Its a back fire with the nitrous and fuel added to it,so it will put alot of pressure in the intake area.

thats what i though at first and thats not a big deal in my book cus you can fix that whit out taking anything aprat.
now i am gona base that sence the pipes would blow off it proably wouldnt damage the turbo at all like bend fins o something

Jackrabbit
03-22-2007, 07:14 PM
I've played around with a lot of nitrous, and will run it in my next drag car as well.
It isn't anymore dangerous than cranking the boost. Either can kill a car in a hurry if you're not smart about it. It's the same principal, go lean and you'll ruin things.
I leaned out a 150 shot and melted some things. But I was definately not being smart that day.

I've had some fuel and nitrous backfires, the n2o boom was scary (LOUD!) but neither did any damage. Blew some cone filters into uselessness though. ;)

Let me know if you need anything. I sell NX stuff.

-Wade
www.jr-ms.com

Tony Hanna
03-22-2007, 07:17 PM
explaine this nitrous back fire i ve heard very littel about them it sounds prety bad

Well, I don't completely understand the physics behind it, so maybe somebody else can explain that part. What I do know is that accidently triggering the nitrous too low in the RPM's (below 3,000 in this case) caused the nitrous/fuel to burn in the intake. Explode would probably be a better word for it. Basically a bright white flash accompanied by the sound of someone firing a 12ga. shotgun under the hood.

The backfire ruptured the rubber intake elbow, blew the fogger nozzle out hard enough to put a dent in the underside of the hood, cracked the hard plastic airbox assembly, and completely straightened the pleats out of a panel type air filter. In fact, the only thing from the throttlebody forward that was undamaged was the MAF (thank God).

If it had been a turbo engine, best case I'd say it would have popped every coupler between the throttlebody and the intercooler. Worst case it would have split the intercooler cores and/or damaged the compressor wheel/shaft/bearings in the turbo.

The best advice I can offer when it comes to playing with nitrous is to start small and work your way up. I didn't and it came back to bite me in the @ss.
You learn from these things though, and once I got it sorted out, it was definately alot of fun. Took a low 14 sec. car and turned it into a mid 12 sec. car with not much else in the way of mods.:thumb:

shad0w2.s_tur80
03-22-2007, 08:32 PM
now i noticed that the kit comes whit a nitrous managment unit what excztaly does that controll now. all the extra fuel coms from the jet right it doesnt have anything todo whit the fuel injectors.
now with direct port can you set that up wet to or is that just pure no2?

now backfires normaly olny happen when nitrous is sparyed befor wot? or what?

slasky
03-22-2007, 09:05 PM
I'm running a NOS kit. It is a 60 h.p. shot. It turned a 12.50 to an 11.50 and 110 mph went to 119.8. So I'll say that it is worth the money.


I have a nitrous kit but have not been in a hurry to install it. I think you just convinced me to get it in. Looks like a roll bar is in my future.:)

Tony Hanna
03-22-2007, 09:20 PM
now i noticed that the kit comes whit a nitrous managment unit what excztaly does that controll now.
I'm not exactly sure. What brand and application/model number is the kit you're looking at? I can probably look it up and tell you a little more about it.



all the extra fuel coms from the jet right it doesnt have anything todo whit the fuel injectors.
That depends on if the kit is a "wet" or "dry" kit. With a wet kit, yes, all the extra fuel comes from the jet. With a dry kit, they usually fool the fuel system into adding the fuel through the injectors. I think most dry kits use pressure from the nitrous side against the fuel pressure regulator to do this.



now with direct port can you set that up wet to or is that just pure no2?
Direct port is usually a wet setup. It's basically the same as a single nozzle setup except you have a nozzle for each cylinder mounted in the intake runners.



now backfires normaly olny happen when nitrous is sparyed befor wot? or what?
In my case, I was at WOT (full throttle switch). I just sprayed way too much at too low of RPM's. I was jetted for a 175 hp shot and I touched it off accidently below 3,000 RPM.
It's easy to do when the adrenaline is up and you're paying attention to everything else trying to get a good launch. That's why an RPM activated switch and a full throttle switch together would probably be the best way to go.

shad0w2.s_tur80
03-22-2007, 09:25 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ZEX-82030-4-Cyl-Direct-Port-Nitrous-System-50-200-HP_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33740QQitemZ30009119 5880QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

thats the kit i am looking at geting unless you guys think theirs better one or something or if i shouldnt go direct port

shad0w2.s_tur80
03-22-2007, 09:28 PM
ok at what rpm should i start spraying?
would a 125 shot be pushing it a bit much thats about 38 hp per cylinder

Tony Hanna
03-22-2007, 09:40 PM
That looks like a pretty complete setup, but I have absolutely no experience with ZEX brand nitrous systems. Personally, I think the direct port is a bit overkill as you can do about the same with a well known brand name single fogger kit for less money.

Tony Hanna
03-22-2007, 09:45 PM
ok at what rpm should i start spraying?
would a 125 shot be pushing it a bit much thats about 38 hp per cylinder

If you're going to spray that much, I definately wouldn't trigger it below about 3000 rpm's.
Aside from the possibility of a backfire, you're really pounding the rod bearings when you hit them with a big shot at low engine speeds.
If you're wanting to run that much, you might look into a progressive controller. They're expensive, but they bring the nitrous/fuel in slow and work up to your target HP by pulsing the solenoids.

shad0w2.s_tur80
03-22-2007, 09:51 PM
That looks like a pretty complete setup, but I have absolutely no experience with ZEX brand nitrous systems. Personally, I think the direct port is a bit overkill as you can do about the same with a well known brand name single fogger kit for less money.

ok what kit would you sugest for me to use then?

i am open to anything i haven set my mind on any certin thing yet

Tony Hanna
03-22-2007, 10:14 PM
Well, it's really up to you and depends on what you want to do with it. Are you going to be using it primarily at the strip or playing around on the street some? What are your horsepower goals? Are you going to want to use the nitrous to help spool a big turbo?
Anything you can tell me about your plans for the car will help.

shad0w2.s_tur80
03-22-2007, 10:38 PM
basicly i am just looking for something that will be fun to ply with on a stock motor along whit 14 psi intercooled short tearm but i will proably be using it to spoll a larger turbo on some kind of 16 valve engine later down the road
teh cars gona see some track but mostaly street

Tony Hanna
03-22-2007, 10:43 PM
Another thought thought that just came to mind is choosing a fuel pump. Unless you're planning on running a dedicated fuel cell/pump/regulator for the nitrous system, your pump is going to be pulling double duty feeding both the normal demands of the engine and providing the fuel for the nitrous kit.
Figure the horsepower you're planning to make off the bottle, and add that to the absolute highest hp shot of nitrous you'd consider running then add about 20% to that figure as a safety margin and that should give you an idea of what kind of pump will get the job done.

shad0w2.s_tur80
03-22-2007, 10:50 PM
so i am need something like a warbrol 255 then about cus i dont think ill get higher than 250 hp cus intercooled at 14psi is still like way under 200 on a stock engine and il proably run maybe a 575 shot 100 tops
does that sound about right?

Tony Hanna
03-22-2007, 11:13 PM
basicly i am just looking for something that will be fun to ply with on a stock motor along whit 14 psi intercooled short tearm but i will proably be using it to spoll a larger turbo on some kind of 16 valve engine later down the road
teh cars gona see some track but mostaly street

In that case, I'd recomend a basic single fogger wet kit. As far as which brand, NOS, NX, Nitrous Works are all proven performers.
Depending on your budget, I'd scout Ebay for a deal on a used kit. I picked up a NOS brand wet kit with everything except the switches for about $150 a couple years ago.
The nice thing about doing it that way is that all your basic single nozzle EFI wet kits are about the same. At most, you might have to change a line or buy an adapter to tap into the fuel system. The Nitrous Works kit I had on the Z28 was actually designed for a 5.0 Ford, but fit the Z with no modification.

Starting with a basic kit like that will allow you to add the features that are important to you. Some of the ones I'd consider would be a full throttle switch (most complete kits come with one), an rpm activated switch, a fuel pressure safety switch, and a bottle pressure gauge. That should be enough to get you started with a fairly "safe" system.
When you decide on one, if you need any help with installation or tuning, give me a shout. I'll help as best I can.:)

Tony Hanna
03-22-2007, 11:31 PM
so i am need something like a warbrol 255 then about cus i dont think ill get higher than 250 hp cus intercooled at 14psi is still like way under 200 on a stock engine and il proably run maybe a 575 shot 100 tops
does that sound about right?

I'd say the 255 lph will be up to the task then. I'm sure it's been said, but I can't quote a figure on how much horsepower 255 lph will support. Maybe somebody will chime in with the answer to that question.:confused:

I just tend to think about things like that because an adequate fuel supply is so important with these engines, and adding nitrous puts that much more demand on the fuel system.

shad0w2.s_tur80
03-23-2007, 05:22 PM
ok but about that 100 shot is that too much for a stock engine or what?

Tony Hanna
03-23-2007, 05:48 PM
ok but about that 100 shot is that too much for a stock engine or what?

Probably not if the engine is in good mechanical condition and the nitrous kit is jetted right.
But definately don't start that high. Buy the jets to start small (50 hp at most) and work your way up from there slowly.
That will give you a chance to see how your engine is going to react to the nitrous and what tuning will need done.

devlish
03-23-2007, 06:01 PM
now this is just what i've heard... from friends that have nitrous on both NA & Turbo cars... that whatever jetting you use on a turbo car is almost double what the jet says. i.e. if you have a 35 shot on the turbo car, it will act/feel closer to a 70-75 shot. i personally have no experiance with this, but trust the people that do very much. this is something worth checking out before you throw a 75 shot on there and start blowing internals becuase it's reacting more like a 150. and if you people with experiance can tell me otherwise, that's great!! (becuase i'm considering doing n20 late this summer as well...)

85glht
03-23-2007, 06:05 PM
I have a nitrous kit but have not been in a hurry to install it. I think you just convinced me to get it in. Looks like a roll bar is in my future.:)


You'll love it! It changes the whole characteristics of the car. Especially at the launch!:nod:

85glht
03-23-2007, 06:09 PM
now this is just what i've heard... from friends that have nitrous on both NA & Turbo cars... that whatever jetting you use on a turbo car is almost double what the jet says. i.e. if you have a 35 shot on the turbo car, it will act/feel closer to a 70-75 shot. i personally have no experiance with this, but trust the people that do very much. this is something worth checking out before you throw a 75 shot on there and start blowing internals becuase it's reacting more like a 150. and if you people with experiance can tell me otherwise, that's great!! (becuase i'm considering doing n20 late this summer as well...)


The kit I bought was advertised as a 60 h.p. kit, and that is exactly what I gained at the track, 60 h.p., not 120 h.p..
So, it is a myth.:)

Tony Hanna
03-23-2007, 06:19 PM
now this is just what i've heard... from friends that have nitrous on both NA & Turbo cars... that whatever jetting you use on a turbo car is almost double what the jet says. i.e. if you have a 35 shot on the turbo car, it will act/feel closer to a 70-75 shot. i personally have no experiance with this, but trust the people that do very much. this is something worth checking out before you throw a 75 shot on there and start blowing internals becuase it's reacting more like a 150. and if you people with experiance can tell me otherwise, that's great!! (becuase i'm considering doing n20 late this summer as well...)

I don't know about double, but you're right about it having a bigger effect on a forced induction engine. The reason being is that the nitrous is extremely cold and cools the incoming air (boost) considerably. This makes it more dense which really helps power. The thing is it also increases the fuel requirement (probably more than what it would on a n/a engine). That's why I suggested starting small and working your way up slowly. It'll give you a chance to see what kind of fuel jet size it likes in relation to the nitrous jet size. It may very well take a step or two larger fuel jet than recomended to maintain a safe A/F ratio. If a person were to immediately throw the recomended jets for a 100 shot in there without knowing for sure, it could be lean and cost you an engine.

GLHSKEN
03-23-2007, 06:29 PM
The kit I bought was advertised as a 60 h.p. kit, and that is exactly what I gained at the track, 60 h.p., not 120 h.p..
So, it is a myth.:)

No a 60 hp kit on an NA car adds 40 at the wheels.. A 60 kit on a turbo car adds just that 60 ;)

shad0w2.s_tur80
03-23-2007, 10:24 PM
well the engine well have new rings, bearings, headgasket and some other new milsanious things on it. so it should be in prety good shape, how much of a difrence would like a 50 shot make in how hard the car pulls?

ohiorob
03-31-2007, 08:35 AM
I ran the 50 hp on my 2.2 turbo II for a few years with out a problem. the first year i used it to help spool up '' super 70 turbo with a 63 ar exhuast housing.'' a pressure switch from napa would turn it off at 16 lb boost the car would run 12.12 @ 23 lbs of boost the next year i ran it all the way down the track 11.80s. if you go higher hp with a single fogger the fuel does not distribute well at high rpm and you take a chance on leaning it out.

a 50 shot will put a big smill on your face:D

jre97
03-31-2007, 09:04 AM
well the engine well have new rings, bearings, headgasket and some other new milsanious things on it. so it should be in prety good shape, how much of a difrence would like a 50 shot make in how hard the car pulls?

Is it a common block? That would also make a big difference on how much you could spray it for. As for a 50 shot making a difference you would probably notice it more in your et's than the good old butt dyno. I can tell you from riding in it and driving it) that the 175hp shot on Tony's camaro wasn't the whole fast and the furious movie magic effect but you could feel it suck you into the seat. I'm sure he'll agree that it wasn't at all what we expected when we put it on the car.

8valves
03-31-2007, 11:15 AM
No a 60 hp kit on an NA car adds 40 at the wheels.. A 60 kit on a turbo car adds just that 60 ;)

This also depends on the manufacturer. NOS kits are rated at crank HP... a little trick is TNT kits are WHP rated. So nitrous grudge match boys who say we both are going to run a 150 pill know that if one is on a NX or NOS or such the TNT guy has the advantage. Random info, sorry. :)

Tony Hanna
03-31-2007, 12:08 PM
Is it a common block? That would also make a big difference on how much you could spray it for. As for a 50 shot making a difference you would probably notice it more in your et's than the good old butt dyno. I can tell you from riding in it and driving it) that the 175hp shot on Tony's camaro wasn't the whole fast and the furious movie magic effect but you could feel it suck you into the seat. I'm sure he'll agree that it wasn't at all what we expected when we put it on the car.

Yeah, I was going to mention something about that, but never got around to it.
You feel it a little, but not as much as you'd think, and not near as much as the movies would have you believe. Where you really see the difference is in the time slips (like John said) and also how fast the speedo needle swings.:)

devlish
03-31-2007, 06:29 PM
well maybe i'll have to look into a kit just for fun this summer. a 40 or 50 shot should keep me plenty happy. the car runs strong, and is currently getting a new MP headgasket and ARP head studs, along with some exhaust/intake porting. other than that, it's a stock 86 block, running t2 electronics, Walbro 255, +40's, FMIC, and a trimcal. i hope to run 15psi on the street conservatively, and 18psi at the track. i think the N20 at the track would be fun though, use a window switch for it only being on from 3k-5.5k RPMs, and maybe a napa pressure switch to shut it off at 17-18psi, just incase it spikes or something.

does all that sound reasonable?? according to OhioRob, should i expect to pick up about 3/10's of a second?? (using the 50shot??) i always thought that N20 would be my save-all incase i was running a 13.2 or 13.1, it would push me into the 12's at least. hmmmm.... we'll see i guess.

85glht
03-31-2007, 07:19 PM
i always thought that N20 would be my save-all incase i was running a 13.2 or 13.1, it would push me into the 12's at least. hmmmm.... we'll see i guess.


I can't say for anyone else but me, but, I picked up a whole second, 12.50 down to a 11.50, with the 60 shot from NOS. It was worth 8-9 miles per hour too.

I have two switches, one to arm the system and one on the throttle that is activated at WOT only (this is when it is starts "spraying"). All of that came with the kit, nothing else to buy. Hope this helps.

devlish
03-31-2007, 07:43 PM
WOW!! impressive.

i can only hope i'm half as lucky.

think she'll hold up though to a 50 shot with no internal mods??? (i also have a new chromoly plate & trans girdle thingy...(

shad0w2.s_tur80
03-31-2007, 09:18 PM
all i realy want is something that will put you back in your seat for now i dont car that much about times i just want something that pulls decent for now.
form what my money sit is looking ill have just over 200 to my wheals on just boost and at least a 50 shot on wot so i think i should be happy for a few days lol. what do you guys think?

shad0w2.s_tur80
03-31-2007, 09:22 PM
Is it a common block? That would also make a big difference on how much you could spray it for. As for a 50 shot making a difference you would probably notice it more in your et's than the good old butt dyno. .
yeah its a comon block the cars a 91 daytona shebly
so fo that fast and furious effect i am need like a 600 shot? that sound about right??
my freinds step dad has a fuly bluit belvidear runing close to that much i belive

Ondonti
03-31-2007, 10:10 PM
Im just always scared about uneven distribution........lots of people seem to make it okay but........

show-off
03-31-2007, 10:11 PM
I just had a nitrous hiccup or backfire today on the dyno. I hit the full throttle switch at 3300rpms and it is a 100 shot...I run an open turbo and all my intercooler pipes are barred so they can't pop off. It shot the intake freeze plug out the side of the intake w/ a big ball of fire!!

Anybody know where to get the intake freeze plugs?

Tony Hanna
04-01-2007, 10:49 AM
I just had a nitrous hiccup or backfire today on the dyno. I hit the full throttle switch at 3300rpms and it is a 100 shot...I run an open turbo and all my intercooler pipes are barred so they can't pop off. It shot the intake freeze plug out the side of the intake w/ a big ball of fire!!

Anybody know where to get the intake freeze plugs?

That's freakin' awsome! Kind of like an unintentional built-in safety feature.:)
I don't know if the discount parts stores would have a plug that size or not. That's what I'd try first. Maybe take the old one in and see if you can match it up. A set of calipers might be handy too.

devlish
04-01-2007, 11:02 AM
Maybe take the old one in and see if you can match it up. if you can find the freeze plug that shot out like a rocket!:)

Tony Hanna
04-01-2007, 11:19 AM
if you can find the freeze plug that shot out like a rocket!:)

Lol, yeah, that's why I mentioned the calipers. Might have to measure the hole if the original plug is MIA.:D

show-off
04-01-2007, 11:52 AM
Of course I have the freeze plug!!! None of the Autozones or Advanced had it. It is bent up pretty good, but that was one scary event...won't shoot it that low again!

Tony Hanna
04-01-2007, 09:00 PM
Machine shop maybe, or dealer?

That booger's pretty big though. You may end up having to look somewhere that carries parts for big trucks...

shad0w2.s_tur80
04-02-2007, 09:32 PM
now i ev seen some talk about nitrous beign distrubitly unevenly would direct port eliminate that problem or what?

Tony Hanna
04-02-2007, 10:31 PM
now i ev seen some talk about nitrous beign distrubitly unevenly would direct port eliminate that problem or what?

It sure would, but within reasonable limits (less than a 200 hp shot), I don't think that any uneven distribution that you'd get from a single nozzle system would ever cause a problem. Look at the guys running big boost on extra injector setups and single nozzle alky systems. If the distrabution was too bad, they'd be dangerously lean on some cylinders and overfueling others at the same time.

zin
04-09-2007, 09:27 PM
It sure would, but within reasonable limits (less than a 200 hp shot), I don't think that any uneven distribution that you'd get from a single nozzle system would ever cause a problem. Look at the guys running big boost on extra injector setups and single nozzle alky systems. If the distrabution was too bad, they'd be dangerously lean on some cylinders and overfueling others at the same time.

Here I am, late to the party as usual. First off, I have to give Tony some serious credit, I haven't seen a bit of advice that I'd deem "suspect", and that's saying something, too much of the info out here on the net is what I refer to as "chocolate covered dog sh!t". By that I mean folks have a, or some facts right, and the rest, well, you get the idea. In case you are wondering why I might be qualified to make such a statement, I was the head of NOS's Tech Dept up until 2003ish (started in 94), and am currently working for Nitrous Supply (Mike Thermos' new company).

Tony's advise to start small with a single fogger is sound advice, the RPM switch is also a good idea for a number of reasons, all of them add to engine longevity.
As for the Direct Port question, it's a good idea around 100+ HP, lower HP levels are not practical as you have trouble keeping the fuel flow low enough through 4 jets. Basically, you cannot hold the fuel back unless you run a separate fuel system, and that's a whole other headache! A single Fogger will do a better job of cooling the charge air as it is injected further up-stream so it is cooling more of the intake track.
The question of HP gained on a turbo vs NA application is tricky, it will vary from application to application. I've seen some cars not gain much of anything, and others nearly double what they were "supposed" to make. In most cases, it's safe to expect up to an extra 15-20HP on a "50HP" hit.
The HP ratings were touched on, that's another "loaded question". Some manufactures will "rate" their jets at one HP level, when the reality is that they are another. What I mean by this is that, typically, a .036" nitrous jet will be capable of burning about 50 HP worth of fuel, and most manufactures will something close to this for their 50HP jetting combo. However, some will use a larger jet, say a .042" jet (which is capable of 75HP typically) and call that their 50 HP tune-up! Well, you can imagine how much more impressed you'll be with their "50HP" turn-up compared to the other "honest" 50HP tune-up. They get away with it because most folks have no way to know any better. Marketing, where would we be without it?:o

Mike

Tony Hanna
04-09-2007, 09:44 PM
Thanks Mike.

A little OT, but if you don't mind, I've got a quick question that you might be able to answer for me. I'm currently running an extra injector rig made out of nitrous kit parts, but the nozzle is giving me fits. I haven't been real impressed with the way most of the off the shelf fogger nozzles atomize fuel alone. I've made a couple attempts at building my own nozzle, and they seem to work pretty well with larger jets, but with a small enough jet for the ammount of fuel I need, they don't atomize very well either. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks,
Tony

devlish
04-10-2007, 09:27 AM
Mike, thanks for the info. as for one kit calling their .036 jet a 50shot, and another company calling their .042 jet a 50 shot... shouldn't it be the users fault if they cannot tell what jet they are putting in?? i mean a jet is a jet right? one company's .036 still measures .036 with another company. they allow the same amount of n20 into the system still.

is there a standard chart somewhere (i'm sure there is...) that indicates that a .036 jet is a 50shot, while a .042 jet is a 75shot. that would really equal the playing field then. or am i missing something?

so pretty much one company's dyno was tuned differently when they measured the HP gains on their different jets.

either way, thanks again for the insight.

1FastCSX289
04-10-2007, 10:41 AM
is there a standard chart somewhere (i'm sure there is...) that indicates that a .036 jet is a 50shot, while a .042 jet is a 75shot. that would really equal the playing field then. or am i missing something?

so pretty much one company's dyno was tuned differently when they measured the HP gains on their different jets.

.

Yea, there are such charts.....

http://www.robietherobot.com/nitrousjetcalculator.htm

Some manufacturers rate their horsepower at the wheels (like TNT). Which may be the reason for different jets rating different HP levels. But, there are other factors that come into play like atomization of the fuel/N2O, etc.

UltimateSleeper
04-10-2007, 09:55 PM
Sean (1fastcsx289) remember the time you had your white formula firebird and I had my V6 sunbird at the track. I was doing the "e-brake front wheel peel" and you set your nitrous off during your burnout. :nod:

Sounded like someone fired a gun...then we noticed your exhaust system laying on the track...:rockon:

Good times

1FastCSX289
04-10-2007, 11:28 PM
Sean (1fastcsx289) remember the time you had your white formula firebird and I had my V6 sunbird at the track. I was doing the "e-brake front wheel peel" and you set your nitrous off during your burnout. :nod:

Sounded like someone fired a gun...then we noticed your exhaust system laying on the track...:rockon:

Good times

Yea, those were the good ol days........that was the day that I learned I needed a full throttle switch. :lol:

zin
04-11-2007, 09:09 PM
Thanks Mike.

A little OT, but if you don't mind, I've got a quick question that you might be able to answer for me. I'm currently running an extra injector rig made out of nitrous kit parts, but the nozzle is giving me fits. I haven't been real impressed with the way most of the off the shelf fogger nozzles atomize fuel alone. I've made a couple attempts at building my own nozzle, and they seem to work pretty well with larger jets, but with a small enough jet for the ammount of fuel I need, they don't atomize very well either. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks,
Tony

Sorry for not answering sooner, work and a headgasket keeping me busy!
None of the Fogger type nozzles were designed to atomize fuel by themselves, so I'm not surprised in your disappointment (they need the nitrous or air to atomize). You'll need an atomizing nozzle, a good place to start would be the brass (not plastic) mister nozzles used in those outside air conditioning kits. The key to making these type of nozzle work is pressure, in their intended application they will see 60 PSI, so that should be what you shoot for. There are others out there used in industry that run at lower pressures, but they tend to be more $$ and much bigger, so packaging can be trouble.

Mike

Tony Hanna
04-11-2007, 11:43 PM
Sorry for not answering sooner, work and a headgasket keeping me busy!
None of the Fogger type nozzles were designed to atomize fuel by themselves, so I'm not surprised in your disappointment (they need the nitrous or air to atomize). You'll need an atomizing nozzle, a good place to start would be the brass (not plastic) mister nozzles used in those outside air conditioning kits. The key to making these type of nozzle work is pressure, in their intended application they will see 60 PSI, so that should be what you shoot for. There are others out there used in industry that run at lower pressures, but they tend to be more $$ and much bigger, so packaging can be trouble.

Mike

Thanks Mike!
Mcmaster Carr carries a pretty large selection of misting nozzles. I've used them before with methanol injection. They're sized wierd though. I think the two that I have are labeled M10 and M15. I wonder how I could translate that into an equivalent jet size so I can figure out what size nozzle will support what horsepower @ x fuel pressure? If I can figure out what size nozzle I need, I'll order one and give it a shot.
Thanks Again,
Tony

zin
04-13-2007, 09:28 AM
Thanks Mike!
Mcmaster Carr carries a pretty large selection of misting nozzles. I've used them before with methanol injection. They're sized wierd though. I think the two that I have are labeled M10 and M15. I wonder how I could translate that into an equivalent jet size so I can figure out what size nozzle will support what horsepower @ x fuel pressure? If I can figure out what size nozzle I need, I'll order one and give it a shot.
Thanks Again,
Tony

Hopefully they have a flow volume associated with them, if they do we can figure out what the equivalent lb/hr in fuel and therefore what HP it would support. I'm sure we'll have to correct for the difference in pressures (what their volume is rated at and the pressure we'll be running). If you can find out a manufacture, you may be able to go to their web site and get some more info or even a better suited piece.

Mike

Tony Hanna
04-13-2007, 09:57 PM
Thanks Mike! I'll do some looking maybe tomorrow evening and see what kind of information I can find on them. I just started back to work on a job running 7 days a week, 12 hours a day, so it's way past my bedtime.:)

zin
04-14-2007, 04:33 PM
Thanks Mike! I'll do some looking maybe tomorrow evening and see what kind of information I can find on them. I just started back to work on a job running 7 days a week, 12 hours a day, so it's way past my bedtime.:)

And I thought 6 days a week was bad! :D

Tony Hanna
04-14-2007, 10:04 PM
And I thought 6 days a week was bad! :D

Well, it won't last much longer. There's a scheduled outage going on and I hired in toward the end of it.:)

Here's the page from the Mcmaster Carr catalog with the misting nozzles I was talking about. It does list the flow rate in GPH at different pressures, but I'm not sure how to convert to 55 psi, and then figure the horsepower each will support.:confused:
Thanks again for all the help!
Tony

zin
04-15-2007, 03:14 PM
Well, it won't last much longer. There's a scheduled outage going on and I hired in toward the end of it.:)

Here's the page from the Mcmaster Carr catalog with the misting nozzles I was talking about. It does list the flow rate in GPH at different pressures, but I'm not sure how to convert to 55 psi, and then figure the horsepower each will support.:confused:
Thanks again for all the help!
Tony

We will just take the listed GPH and divide it by .5 as our brake specific fuel consumption (BSFC) to get the HP supported (gasoline), or approximately 1.15 for alky (methanol). This is just a rough estimate, but it's pretty safe.

To convert those numbers from one pressure to another, use the following formula: new pressure divided by old pressure, square rooted, then times the original flow rate. This is the same formula used to figure what a fuel injector will flow at a different pressure. So, if we have a 50ghp flow rate @ 100PSI, it will end up being 37gph at 55PSI. That's [(55/100) sqrt] x 50gph = 37gph 37gph divided by .5 BSFC = 74HP supported.

Mike

zin
04-15-2007, 03:23 PM
Just looked at the attached list of nozzles, seems the "no-drip" version is the way to go, should stop the siphoning effect without having to add a check valve, etc. Of course if you are using a solenoid to start/stop the flow, it wouldn't be an issue as it would provide this function. It does look like you'll have to go to "the bottom of the page" to get one that has enough of a flow rating to support much HP, I can't see that part of the page, but hopefully there are some suitable ones there. Of course another option is to just add more nozzles until you get the flow rate you need...

Mike

shelbyplaya
04-18-2007, 10:25 AM
i used my n2o kit for the first time on sunday...... damn it was fun.

it's a compucar kit with a NOS fogger 2 nozzel. i cant rember the jet size at the moment but it's set up for a '50 shot'. i camt complain about it's preformance. i still have yet to get it dyno tested.....

Tony Hanna
04-18-2007, 11:18 AM
We will just take the listed GPH and divide it by .5 as our brake specific fuel consumption (BSFC) to get the HP supported (gasoline), or approximately 1.15 for alky (methanol). This is just a rough estimate, but it's pretty safe.

To convert those numbers from one pressure to another, use the following formula: new pressure divided by old pressure, square rooted, then times the original flow rate. This is the same formula used to figure what a fuel injector will flow at a different pressure. So, if we have a 50ghp flow rate @ 100PSI, it will end up being 37gph at 55PSI. That's [(55/100) sqrt] x 50gph = 37gph 37gph divided by .5 BSFC = 74HP supported.

Mike

Thanks Mike! That helps alot and the BSFC conversion for methanol will really come in handy when I get ready to setup the alky injection. I'll be using it to provide a good bit of the fuel instead of just for cooling. I'd like to eventually set up a 3 bar cal to handle the timing, but not add any fuel above 18 psi, and use the methanol to support anything above 18. I'm off work sick today, so I may make good use of the free time and do a little research on the idea.:)
I'm drifting way OT though. I'll start a thread when I get ready to tackle that project.
Thanks again for the help,
Tony

Reeves
11-10-2010, 06:42 PM
I just had a nitrous hiccup or backfire today on the dyno. I hit the full throttle switch at 3300rpms and it is a 100 shot...I run an open turbo and all my intercooler pipes are barred so they can't pop off. It shot the intake freeze plug out the side of the intake w/ a big ball of fire!!

Anybody know where to get the intake freeze plugs?

570-017 Dorner

The above is an adjustable rubber plug in 2.25" diameter. Should fit the intake nicely. I have 2 on order.

I used to have an adjustable copper plug in my intake on my OMNI up until this past Sunday.

Guess what happened to it? :nx:




Back in 96 or 97 my Shelby Z would occasionally ingest the intake freeze plug, unless I was boosting, then it would blow it out. I used to buy these plugs at the local stores no problem back then. But now I've been searching and the only place I found it was at RockAuto and at Jeg's.