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"Top Fuel" Bender
03-05-2007, 11:48 PM
Hey Guys
1992 CTD auto w/ O.d.
Driving along part throttle , cruising
Feels like the conv. is locking and unlocking in 2nd and 3rd gear
It has a tach and you can watch the rpm's jump up 300-400 rpm when this happens
If your off the gas and slightly decelerating in downshifts too easily

I talked to my local trans. guy and he said he gets this question all the time and said it's sensor/ground related to the engine and not the trans.
something else was prematurly telling the trans. to do it
He said there was a tsb out (my local dodge guy couldn't find it)
that said it was tps, coolant temp. or possiblly something else but he could find his paper and didn't remember what to do

Anybody got a clue?

I did have previous vehicle speed sensor problems and replaced it with a Mopar unit
The problem did seem to arrive shorlty after a trans. flush
(Go ahead and shoot me) I power flushed with a snap-on unit the goes in the trans. cooler lines with ATF dexron II with a mopar friction modifier
I should know better but they insisted the additive makes everything better and the cost of atf was much cheaper

LMK what you think
thanks

Charger R/T
03-10-2007, 09:02 AM
A guy at work has a 93 and his has a computer just like a gas truck would and we pulled some codes out of his when he was having OD issues. I don't remember if you can key it like a gas job to get codes because we had my scanner when we looked at it.

I haven't used or let anyone talk me into a flush. But is it possible the flush stirred up the crap and you have some metal stuck on the tip of a sensor? That would cloud a signal.
Tim

"Top Fuel" Bender
03-10-2007, 12:39 PM
I'll have to try the scanner at work but I thought the 92's computer was just for the trans. but I guess I could try and see if anything comes up since something is telling the trans. to shift early

I really never had any trouble flushing other vehicles yet
the machine we use (snap-on) goes inline of one of the trans. cooler lines
and uses the vehicle's trans. pump to push the fluid out while a small pump returns the new fluid to pan
It just moves twice the amout of fluid to hopefully get everything out
Your never disturbing anything or doing anyhting the trans. wouldn't do normally
I was just worring about not using the mopar +4
thanks

shadow88
03-11-2007, 06:54 PM
1st off, I'll have to admit that I'm not the greatest at automatic transmissions.
I think the 92 trans has a partial lock-up in 3rd gear, but not 2nd. I'd drive with the shifter locked in 2nd to eliminate the possibility that it's shifting into 3rd. It likely won't act up.

Then move the shifter into 3rd and lock out the overdrive. Re-road test and see what happens.
The computer in your truck controls (as far as trans operation goes) lock-up and overdrive. The rest is up to the inner working of the transmission.
If the problem continues in 3rd by locking up and unlocking. I'd roadtest with a scanner to watch TPS readings. The main inputs to the computer lock-up and overdrive outputs are vehicle speed and tps. Try to scan those readings while driving and see if anything seems out of whack.

I'm also not a big fan of trans flushes without removing the pan 1st to see if there's any excessive debris and to ensure proper band adjustment.

whistlin'
03-20-2007, 11:03 AM
Try tapping on the side of the TPS with a wrench, seriously it works.
Your lockup will only happen in 3rd gear or overdrive, and 3rd gear lockup only happens when overdrive is shut off.
The 3-4 4-3 shift is the only shift controlled by the computer. It takes readings from the SDS, TPS.
The lockup is controlled by the computer and uses readings from the SDS, TPS and brake switch.
The most common problem with the lock-unlock or 3-4-3 problems is the TPS. Another often overlooked problem with the lock-unlock problems is the brake switch. Sometimes when hitting a bump the brake pedal will bounce enough to touch the switch, resulting in an unlock then going right back to lock.

JDAWG
03-20-2007, 11:35 AM
ok found some tsb's for ya to look at
NO: 18-10-92 Rev. A
SUBJECT: Erratic 3-4/4-3 Shift 5.9L Cummins (Charged Air Cooler) Diesel Engine
DATE: Sep. 8, 1992
THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 18-10-92 WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. THE TORQUE SPECIFICATION WAS INCORRECT. REVISIONS ARE PRINTED IN RED AND HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS**.

NOTE: THIS BULLETIN APPLIES TO VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 5.9L CUMMINS INTERCOOLED (CHARGED AIR COOLER) DIESEL ENGINE AND AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION.

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
Customer complaints of erratic transmission shifting (transmission hunting) between third and fourth gear.

DISCUSSION:
The transmission shift schedule for the transmission is based on the throttle position sensor, vehicle speed sensor (1991 1/2) and the engine speed sensor (1992). Before the SBEC (Powertrain Control Module) will allow a three-four shift to occur, the following conditions must be met:

Coolant temperature is above 60° F.
Transmission fluid temperature is below 273° F.
The overdrive control switch (Transmission Overdrive Switch) on the instrument panel is not on.
Vehicle speed is above 32 MPH.
The transmission is in third gear.
Park/Neutral switch is not grounded.
Throttle Position Sensor input.
If all these conditions are met, the transmission will shift properly from third to fourth. If there is any loss or intermittent signal from any of the above mentioned parts, the transmission will shift erratically.

A condition that may cause the transmission to shift erratically, is if the throttle position sensor is sending erratic voltage signals. This may be caused if the injection pump mounting bracket is loose or the gear housing is loose. The bolts on the injection pump bracket, as illustrated ( See Illustration), and the bolts on the gear housing should be torqued to **24 N•m** (18 ft. lbs).

DIAGNOSIS:
When diagnosing for the above symptom/condition use the appropriate diagnostic test procedure. For 1991 1/2 vehicles refer to the 1991 Diesel Engine Supplement, #81-370-1108A, for 1992 vehicles refer to the 1992 Rear Wheel Drive Service Manual, #81-370-2108.

For intermittent problems inspect for loose or broken electrical connectors at the:

Throttle position sensor
Vehicle speed sensor
(1992) Engine speed sensor (Crankshaft Position Sensor)
Overdrive solenoid (Transmission Overdrive Solenoid)
Coolant temperature sensor (Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor)
Transmission temperature sensor
Overdrive control switch (Transmission Overdrive Switch)
(1991 1/2) overdrive set/reset module (Transmission Overdrive Module)
Park/neutral switch
SBEC (Powertrain Control Module).


NO: 21-23-93
SUBJECT: Lack of 3/4 Up Shift and Deep Throttle 2/4 Up Shift
DATE: Sept. 3, 1993
NOTE: THIS BULLETIN APPLIES TO VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH THE 5.9L CUMMINS DIESEL ENGINE AND AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION.

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
Customer complaints of a lack of 3/4 upshift at 50 to 60 miles per hour on the 1992 model year vehicles or complaints of a deep throttle 2/4 upshift on the late built 1992 and 1993 models, could be related to the overdrive shift calibration.

DIAGNOSIS:
Using the Scan Tool (DRB II) and the applicable diagnostic procedure manual or the Mopar Diagnostic System, verify that the vehicle engine systems are functioning as designed. If Trouble Codes (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) are present, record them on the repair order for future reference and repair as necessary. If no codes are present and the systems are functioning as designed, proceed with the following repair.

PARTS REQUIRED:
Quantity
Description
Part No.

1

Powertrain Control Module (SBEC)
4746568

1

Authorized Modification Label
4275086



REPAIR PROCEDURE:
This bulletin involves replacing the Powertrain Control Module (SBEC) with a revised module.

Replace the Powertrain Control Module as outlined in the appropriate Rear Wheel Drive Truck Service Manual.
Type the required information on the Authorized Modification Label, See Illustration), and attach near the VECI label.


NO: 21-19-94
SUBJECT: Delayed Upshift - 4-Speed (Hydraulic Governor) Automatic Transmission
DATE: Sep. 30, 1994
NOTE: THIS BULLETIN APPLIES TO VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A 4-SPEED (HYDRAULIC GOVERNOR) AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION (42RH/46RH).

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
Delayed upshift for about 1/4 mile in cold weather (32 degrees F and below). This condition is most noticeable after the vehicle has been parked for 8 or more hours.

DIAGNOSIS:
Allow vehicle to set for at least 8 hours. With the 100 psi Test Gauge C-3292 connected to the governor pressure port, start the vehicle and put the transmission into Drive. Slowly increase vehicle speed. The governor pressure should increase in proportion to vehicle speed. Disconnect test gauge C-3292 and then drive vehicle for about 1/4 to 1/2 mile. If the vehicle does not upshift within this time period and/or the governor pressure does not match the vehicle speed, perform the following repair.

PARTS REQUIRED:
Quantity
Part No.
Description

3

4461011
Seal Ring - Transmission Governor Drive (Cast Iron)



REPAIR PROCEDURE:
This bulletin involves replacing teflon governor drive seal rings with cast iron seal rings.

Shift transmission into Park, raise the vehicle.
Remove transmission oil pan, remove gasket, drain oil and reinstall pan.
Mark propeller shaft universal joint and axle pinion yoke for alignment reference at installation.
Disconnect and remove propeller shaft.
Support transmission with transmission jack.
Remove rear crossmember.
Remove vehicle speed sensor and speedometer adapter.
Remove transfer case.
Remove bolts attaching overdrive unit to transmission.
CAUTION: SUPPORT THE OVERDRIVE UNIT WITH A JACK BEFORE MOVING IT REARWARD. THIS IS NECESSARY TO PREVENT DAMAGING THE INTERMEDIATE SHAFT. DO NOT ALLOW THE SHAFT TO SUPPORT THE ENTIRE WEIGHT OF THE OVERDRIVE UNIT.

Carefully work the overdrive unit off the intermediate shaft. Do not tilt compounder during removal. Keep it as level as possible.
CAUTION: INSERT ALIGNMENT TOOL 6227-2 IN SPLINES OF PLANETARY GEAR AND OVERRUNNING CLUTCH TO PREVENT SPLINES FROM ROTATING OUT OF ALIGNMENT. IF MISALIGNMENT OCCURS, OVERDRIVE UNIT WILL HAVE TO BE DISASSEMBLED IN ORDER TO REALIGN SPLINES.

Remove and retain overdrive piston thrust bearing. Bearing may remain on piston or in clutch hub during removal.
Place overdrive unit over drain pan. Tilt unit to drain residual fluid from case. Examine fluid for clutch material or metal fragments. If fluid contains an excessive amount of debris, overhaul will be necessary.
Remove overdrive piston thrust plate spacer and retain. It is a select fit part and can be reused.
Remove overdrive clutch pack retaining ring. Then remove the overdrive clutch pack and wave spring.
Remove overdrive clutch reaction snap ring. Note that snap ring is located in same groove as wave spring.
Remove access cover and gasket from case. Cover provides access to output shaft front bearing locating ring. Expand output shaft bearing snap ring with snap ring pliers. Push output shaft forward to release shaft front bearing from locating ring.
Remove geartrain assembly from housing and stand on end with output shaft pointing upward.
Remove Teflon Seal Rings from governor drive.
Install new seal rings (cast iron) on governor drive.
NOTE: CAREFULLY EXPAND EACH SEAL INTO EACH GROOVE OF DRIVE. AVOID OVERSPREADING SEALS DURING INSTALLATION TO ENSURE TIGHT FIT.

Once the cast iron seal rings are in place, interlock the ends of each (without the use of tools) by compressing the sides of the seals providing enough slack at the ends so that the interlocking can take place.
Verify hook type seals are properly interlocked and seals rotate freely in the grooves (Figure 1).
Install overdrive unit case over geartrain.
Expand front bearing locating ring with snap ring pliers. Slide case downward until locating ring locks in bearing groove and release snap ring.
Install locating ring access plate and gasket in overdrive unit case.
Install O/D clutch pack reaction ring first. Reaction ring is flat with notched ends.
Install wave spring on top of reaction ring. Reaction ring and wave spring both fit in same ring groove. Use screwdriver to seat each part securely in groove.
Install clutch pack reaction plate.
Install first clutch disc followed by first clutch plate.
Install remaining clutch disc and plates in same order.
Install clutch pack pressure plate and wire-type clutch pack retaining ring.
Install overdrive piston thrust bearing. Install overdrive piston in retainer.
Verify that splines in overdrive planetary gear and overrunning clutch hub are aligned. Carefully slide Alignment Tool 6227-2 out of overdrive planetary gear and overrunning clutch splines.
Install overdrive unit using a new gasket. Do not use any type of sealer to secure gasket. Use petroleum jelly only.
Raise overdrive unit and carefully slide it straight onto intermediate shaft. Insert park rod into park lock reaction plug at the same time. Avoid tilting overdrive during installation as this could cause the planetary and clutch hub splines to move out of alignment.
Align slip-fit governor tubes and work overdrive unit forward on intermediate shaft until seated against transmission case.
Install bolts attaching overdrive unit to transmission unit. Tighten bolts in diagonal pattern to 34 Nm (25 ft. lbs.).
Install transfer case.
Install crossmember.
Install speed sensor and speedometer adapter. Be sure to index adapter.
Connect speed sensor and overdrive wires.
Align and install propeller shaft.
Lower vehicle and refill transmission with Mopar ATF Plus, Type 7176 transmission fluid.

NO: 21-18-94
SUBJECT: 4 Speed Automatic Transmission 4-3 Downshift Clunk
DATE: Sep. 30, 1994
THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 21-39-93 DATED DEC. 31, 1993 WHICH SHOULD BE NOTED IN YOUR FILES. THE COMPLETE REPAIR PROCESS HAS BEEN CHANGED. A NEW OVERDRIVE CLUTCH PISTON AND SPACER SELECTION PROCESS ARE INCLUDED.

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
Driveline clunk or harshness during 4-3 closed throttle coast down downshift (approximately 18-20 MPH).

DIAGNOSIS:
With the overdrive on (light off), operate the vehicle to verify that the clunk occurs at approximately 18-20 MPH while coasting with the throttle closed. Make sure the transmission is in overdrive (4th gear) before starting the coast down. Repeat with the overdrive off (use O/D switch on the instrument panel - light on). Do this procedure several times with overdrive on and then off. If the clunk occurs only when the overdrive is on, proceed to the repair procedure.

If the clunk occurs during both test phases, overdrive on and overdrive off, look for other possible causes such as driveline backlash, shift cable/linkage adjustment or low transmission oil level. Repair as required.

PARTS REQUIRED:
Quantity
Part No.
Description

1

52118599
Overdrive Clutch Piston

1

4531192
Gasket - Extension Adapter



AR


Spacer - Overdrive Clutch Piston Thrust Plate


4431730
.108 - .110"


4431585
.123 - .125"


4431731
.138 - .140"


4431586
.153 - .155"


4431732
.168 - .170"


4431587
.183 - .185"


4431733
.198 - .200"


4431588
.213 - .215"


4431734
.228 - .230"


4431590
.243 - .245"



REPAIR PROCEDURE:
This bulletin involves the removal of the overdrive unit and replacement of the overdrive piston and, if needed, an overdrive piston thrust plate spacer.

Shift transmission into Park. Raise the vehicle.
Remove the transmission oil pan, remove gasket, drain oil and reinstall pan.
If the overdrive unit has malfunctioned or if fluid is contaminated, remove entire transmission. If diagnosis indicated overdrive clutch or governor problems only, remove the overdrive unit only.
Mark propeller shaft universal joint and axle pinion yoke for alignment reference at installation.
Disconnect and remove propeller shaft.
Support transmission with transmission jack.
Remove rear crossmember.
Remove vehicle speed sensor and speedometer adapter.
Remove bolts attaching overdrive unit to transmission.
CAUTION: SUPPORT THE OVERDRIVE UNIT WITH A JACK BEFORE MOVING IT REARWARD. THIS IS NECESSARY TO PREVENT DAMAGING THE INTERMEDIATE SHAFT. DO NOT ALLOW THE SHAFT TO SUPPORT THE ENTIRE WEIGHT OF THE OVERDRIVE UNIT.

Carefully work the overdrive unit off intermediate shaft. Do not tilt compounder during removal. Keep it as level as possible. Insert alignment tool 6227-2 in splines of planetary gear and overrunning clutch of O.D. unit to prevent splines from rotating out of alignment.
CAUTION: IF MISALIGNMENT OCCURS, OVERDRIVE UNIT WILL HAVE TO BE DISASSEMBLED IN ORDER TO REALIGN SPLINES.

Remove and retain overdrive piston thrust bearing. Bearing may remain on piston or in clutch hub during removal.
Place overdrive unit over drain pan. Tilt unit to drain residual fluid from case. Examine fluid for excessive clutch material or metal fragments. If fluid contains these items, overhaul will be necessary.
Remove overdrive piston thrust plate spacer. Retain thrust spacer. It is a select fit part and can be reused.
Remove intermediate shaft spacer and retain. It is a select fit and can be reused.
Remove overdrive piston from retainer. Discard this piston.
Install new overdrive piston, P/N 52118599.
Place overdrive unit in vertical position and mount unit in vise or in workbench with appropriate size mounting hole cut into it. Be sure unit is facing upward for access to direct clutch hub.
Determine correct thickness of intermediate shaft spacer as follows:
Insert special tool 6312 through sun gear, planetary gear and into pilot bushing in output shaft. Be sure tool bottoms against planetary shoulder.
Position gauge tool 6311 across face of overdrive case (Figure 1). Then position dial caliper C-4962 over gauge tool.
Extend sliding scale of dial caliper downward through gauge tool slot until scale contacts end of gauge alignment tool 6312. Lock scale in place. Remove dial caliper tool and note distance measured (Figure 1).
Select proper thickness end play spacer from spacer chart based on distance measured (Figure 2).
Remove gauge alignment tool 6312.
Determine the correct thickness overdrive piston thrust spacer as follows.
Position gauge tool 6311 across face of overdrive case, then position caliper C-4962 over gauge tool (Figure 3).
Measure distance to clutch hub thrust bearing seat at four points 90 degrees apart. Average measurements by adding them and dividing by four.
NOTE: If measurement is found to be above 1.9 inches, the overdrive assembly must be replaced.

Select and install required thrust spacer from information in thrust spacer chart (Figure 4).
Leave alignment tool 6227-2 in place. Tool will keep planetary and clutch hub splines in alignment until overdrive is ready for installation on transmission.
Verify that splines in overdrive planetary gear and overrunning clutch hub are aligned. Carefully slide alignment tool 6227-2 out of overdrive planetary gear and overrunning clutch splines.
Install overdrive unit using a new gasket. Do not use any type of sealer to secure gasket. Use petroleum jelly only.
Raise overdrive unit and carefully slide it straight onto intermediate shaft. Insert park rod into park lock reaction plug at the same time. Avoid tilting overdrive during installation as this could cause the planetary and clutch hub splines to move out of alignment.
Align slip-fit governor tubes and work overdrive unit forward on intermediate shaft until seated against transmission case.
Install bolts attaching overdrive unit to transmission unit. Tighten bolts in diagonal pattern to 25 ft lbs (34 Nm).
Install crossmember.
Install speed sensor and speedometer adapter. Be sure to index adapter.
Connect speed sensor and overdrive wires.
Align and install propeller shaft.
Lower vehicle and refill transmission with Mopar ATF Plus, Type 7176 transmission fluid. Mopar Dexron II can be used if ATF Plus is not readily available.

JDAWG
03-20-2007, 11:37 AM
I dont know alot about transmissions so I just posted a bunch, some may not pretain to you

"Top Fuel" Bender
03-20-2007, 08:35 PM
Thanks everyone for the help
As soon as the fresh snow/Ice pile around the truck melts
I'll take it for a spin and see whats happens
:thumb:

Vigo
03-28-2007, 11:54 PM
luckily the governor issue doesnt pertain to you,getting to the governor on an old 4wd 518 ctd is not easy, and its way at the bottom of the overdrive unit so you have to take it apart, etc, the transfer case is cast iron and cant be handled without a jack under it, etc etc etc.

"Top Fuel" Bender
04-01-2007, 11:15 AM
Finally go the truck out yesterday, drove it about a mile still acting up
pulled over and tapped on the tps sensor
Ran great to 60mph , deceled fine
but now shifts weird above 3/4 throttle
Anybody got a spare tps laying around, even my cost is expensive :(

shadow88
04-01-2007, 03:37 PM
No on the spare. I *think* they superseded to a bracket and tps. This is an important step if it supersedes.

Did you read the tps on a scanner or voltmeter?

whistlin'
04-01-2007, 05:12 PM
I have heard of people taking them apart and cleaning them up then gluing back together. Also drilling a small hole, spraying contact cleaner in them and working back and forth, then sealing the hole with silicone.
It's crazy what those things cost, especially as simple as they are.
When you say it shifts weird above 3/4 throttle what do you mean. The throttle valve(kickdown cable) may need adjusted.

"Top Fuel" Bender
04-15-2007, 10:19 PM
Well thansk to all that helped
I was definetly the TPS
After getting the new one I cut the old on apart
The "film" or restat part was split in 2 pieces overlaping itself
Guess that'll do it

Put the new one in last night
Never shifted so nice
Drove it 250 miles towing round trip today without a problem
(except sliding sideways on 287 in N.J. @ 82mph in the rain,extend cab btw,
could be worse the cop car in the other lane is missing his front bumper)

I think the fuel mileage even improved

TurboJerry
04-16-2007, 01:25 AM
I was going to say TPS. I replaced my fair share of them. I found it's not worth it to clean the bad one because it goes bad again within a month and may get worse quickly.....

whistlin'
04-16-2007, 04:43 PM
I found it's not worth it to clean the bad one because it goes bad again within a month and may get worse quickly.....
Yeah, but worth the gamble with the price of a new one.:eyebrows:

Bender, good to hear you got it figured out!

TurboJerry
04-17-2007, 08:23 PM
Yeah, but worth the gamble with the price of a new one.:eyebrows:

Bender, good to hear you got it figured out!

Oh yeah, If you're in a bind, it *will* work, but not for long in my experience......