My Lonewolf performance experience LWP

[1FastCSX289]

I know this long, but I want to account for as many details as I can and be fair to myself and Wallace. I am trying my best to write this from an unbiased point of view. My intention is not to create waves, but to give an honest accounting of the events that have transpired over the past few months.

I began searching for someone to port the cylinder head for my CSX back in November. I talked to a few guys and then decided to go with Wallace at LWP because he had some seriously impressive numbers. I wasnt looking to spend a huge amount but I had a decent chunk to plop down. Due to my budget constraints I decided to go with a large port, stock valve 782 head. Wallace told me via PM that he had just done one and got 191 (at .400" intake) and low 160's (at .400 ex.). He quoted a price of 800 plus a core and shipping. So, I sent him my core.

He was finished with the job in early January and told me that he was able to get 192/176 (@ .500" lift). He also ran into some trouble with the valve job disrupting the flow numbers, but in order to get the flow back he had all new valves and seats installed at no charge. I was really happy! I promptly paid the bill on January 9th.

The head came with a flow sheet. LWP's numbers on the flow sheet given to me with the head are as follows:

Intake
.100 - 64.3
.200 - 121.7
.300 - 167.2
.400 - 186.6
.500 - 192.2

Ex
.100 - 55.3
.200 - 98.7
.300 - 129.5
.400 - 156.7
.500 - 176.2


When I received the head I took it out and looked it over quickly noticing the nice polish on combustion chambers and epoxy on two intake ports. I put it back in the box and it sat until my cometic head gasket arrived from Cindy a week or two later. I took it out and was getting ready to install it when I began to take a little closer look. I ran my fingers down the short side radius of an exhaust port and noticed a large gouge. I popped a valve and noticed that their were pretty big gouges from the cutting tool along the back side of the bowl. I thought it was strange that it wasnt ground smooth and polished. But, I dont claim to be an expert in anything of this nature so I sent the head over to my machinist to have a look. I told him I would like it flowed. So, I left the head with him to have it flowed. A few days later my machinist's father passed away and he wasnt able to get to the head for another two weeks or so.

This brings us up to last week. I received a phone call from my machinist and he said there was a large descrepancy between the LWP numbers and the numbers from his bench. I told him that I wanted him to flow it in front of me. So, I went over to the shop and he did. While I was at his shop, he further commented that he was appalled at the work that was done on the head, especially the exhaust ports. The numbers he got from his Superflow 600 (converted to28") were as follows:

Intake
.100 - 50.6
.200 - 101.1
.300 - 137.3
.400 - 159.6
.500 - 168.9

Ex.
.100 - 47.5
.200 - 79.3
.300 - 97.4
.400 - 110.0
.500 - 122.0


Of course, I called Wallace. We discussed the issue for a while on the phone. We also exchanged numerous PM's. He explained to me that the gouges were low pressure dibits and the ones in the bowl were special channels. He also explained to me that my machinist's bench was most likely in error.

I told him that I wouldn't feel comfortable sending the head unless he was able to give me refund. Wallace agreed to grant a refund of the amount that I paid him (800 dollars) if I sent him the head.

I would also like to ask Wallace to consider reimbursing me for the core, shipping, and flow bench time should the head be evaluated as inconsistant with the flow sheet he provided. This totals 250 dollars.

[2.216VTurbo]

Interesting. Flow numbers from bench to becnch can vary considerably, in fact, the intake numbers at roughly 10%-12% could be in the ballpark. However the exhaust numbers couldn't possibly account for the variation between benches. Somebody is getting creative with their numbers. Having said that, I think it's resonable that he refunded you your machining and labor costs, whether or not a vendor is responsible for another vendor's costs to 'double check' some specs, that's a tough call...:confused:

Did you ask for or did LWP state that the intake runners would have material added via welding (or the less labor intensive/expensive) epoxy filling? If not, is this a 'oops' fix, is it in each runner or just a couple?

Sounds like you are back where you started with the head, wish I still had time to do portwork for club members... With Wifey/kids/job etc these days, I can barely keep up with my own projects. The new Masi head for the Rampage will take me about 40+ hours of porting to get it where I want it:o That's roughly half of how long it took my first one:o

Excuse the typos, been drinking all night with a couple clients at a resort in Tucson...

[1FastCSX289]

Stock 782 numbers on my machinist's bench are as follows:

Intake
.100 - 45.5
.200 - 86.5
.300 - 116.5
.400 - 135.25
.500 - 143.4

Exhaust
.100 - 39.6
.200 - 72.61
.300 - 90.63
.400 - 99.8
.500 - 108.2

These numbers seem to indicate a 17% increase in intake flow and 12% increase in exhaust flow. I also had my machinist machine a bore size of 3.44 for his machine because the closest he had was 3.375. For the record the difference was neglegeable.

The g-head that I sold in order to purchase this head was flowed on the same bench with the 3.375 sleeve. It flowed 181/131 @.500" So, actually, it appears to me that im further behind.

[1FastCSX289]

Head has been shipped back USPS. Tracking number: 0306 2400 0000 6835 0612

[Directconnection]

Interesting. Flow numbers from bench to becnch can vary considerably, in fact, the intake numbers at roughly 10%-12% could be in the ballpark.

I'll copy a post of mine here from TD:

I think people are not fully understanding what's happening with this LW head:


***There was a true A/B test performed on the same SF-600 bench***

Test A was a stock swirl head @ 144/108
Test B was the LW head @ 168/122

168/122 is a far cry from 192/176 as advertised.


144/108 is right on par with what I have seen with stock swirl heads on my bench, and the two others I used in the past (which are documented)

[glhs727]

well, just like dynos, flowbenches seem to vary because here is numbers of what a stock swirl head flow according to:
Gary Donovan's site: Swirl SOHC 156 cfm 135 cfm 500"
Todd Nelson's numbers: Stock Swirl 157 127
which are larger than Steve's numbers posted.

Even stocks heads flowed can have varying numbers from head to head, and even flow benches can vary from bench to bench, and flowbench operators can vary, as do their methods, and calibration techniques. Sean's head was not flowed by Sean before it was ported, so the degree % gain is unknown. In addition, the BEFORE port and after porting numbers of HIS head were NOT done by the same guy and the same flow bench.
Personally, I think it was in poor taste that the poster started the thread without giving LWP the opportunity to review the numbers or rectify the situation and even poorer taste for a mod to come on here and stir the pot as Steve pretty much does on almost every vendor related thread, and a lot of threads in general.

Later,
Cindy

[GLHSKEN]

No Steve does not. He lives his worlds building high performance engines for a living. I would with-hold judgement...

You do not know the circumstances.. LWP WAS given all the #'s ahead of the thread being started. They agreed to the starting of this thread.

[1FastCSX289]

well, just like dynos, flowbenches seem to vary because here is numbers of what a stock swirl head flow according to:
Gary Donovan's site: Swirl SOHC 156 cfm 135 cfm 500"
Todd Nelson's numbers: Stock Swirl 157 127
which are larger than Steve's numbers posted.

Even stocks heads flowed can have varying numbers from head to head, and even flow benches can vary from bench to bench, and flowbench operators can vary, as do their methods, and calibration techniques. Sean's head was not flowed by Sean before it was ported, so the degree % gain is unknown. In addition, the BEFORE port and after porting numbers of HIS head were NOT done by the same guy and the same flow bench.
Personally, I think it was in poor taste that the poster started the thread without giving LWP the opportunity to review the numbers or rectify the situation and even poorer taste for a mod to come on here and stir the pot as Steve pretty much does on almost every vendor related thread, and a lot of threads in general.

Later,
Cindy

Cindy, thanks for your opinion. Even though flow benches can vary, I think we can all agree that something went wrong here as we're not talking about a 10cfm variance. Were talking about 50 cfm plus. Regardless, I appreciate the different points of view along the spectrum. Thanks for sharing.

I would agree that that this thread be in poor taste had I accused Wallace of doing anything maliciously. My goal is not to trash Wallace but to make a public accounting for these events. That way, we're all on the same page. No accusations. Only facts here. Im sure Wallace has a perfectly reasonable explanation for all this and it shows by his willingness to refund some of my money up front.

He should have the head tuesday. And perhaps the independent flow test that you suggested to me on the phone might be the best thing in this case?

Thanks for that suggestion. :thumb:

[glhs727]

Cindy, thanks for your opinion.....

I would agree that that this thread be in poor taste had I accused Wallace of doing anything maliciously. My goal is not to trash Wallace but to make a public accounting for these events. That way, we're all on the same page. No accusations. Only facts here. Im sure Wallace has a perfectly reasonable explanation for all this and it shows by his willingness to refund some of my money up front.
Well, you come out and say Wallace said this....and I had someone do a test and it said that...... sure sounds like an accusation to me, but hey, maybe I just read it wrong.



No Steve does not. He lives his worlds building high performance engines for a living. I would with-hold judgement...

You do not know the circumstances.. LWP WAS given all the #'s ahead of the thread being started. They agreed to the starting of this thread.


I do know the circumstances!! and I am withholding judgement which is more than I can say for some folks.
later,
Cindy

[Frank]

I think that people need to be calm and stick to the facts and let this play out with the partys that are involved with this.

[1FastCSX289]

Well, you come out and say Wallace said this....and I had someone do a test and it said that...... sure sounds like an accusation to me, but hey, maybe I just read it wrong.


Cindy, it sounds like youre drawing certain conclusions from the facts that were presented. I am still under the assumption that there may be a reasonable excuse for the descrepancies. Has it crossed my mind that Wallace intentionally cheated me? Sure. I have to be honest. But, there are other explanations too. Maybe Wallace had a leak in the bench that he was unaware of? People make mistakes. Perhaps a post like this will help him to be able to take care of an issue like that before it happens to someone else. No disrespect intended.......Youve got to take it easy on the guy and NOT jump to conclusions....you know what im saying?

Again, the FACT that Wallace is willing to take care of the situation tells me he is willing to do the right thing.

[turbovanman²]

Wow, calmy and nicely put. :D I need to take lessons, lol!

[Directconnection]

Cindy, you cannot deny an A/B comparison. All I am doing is pointing out the facts that Sean presented in his thread without bashing Wallace. Facts do not lie and Sean posted factual information.

People can say flowbenches vary, operator error, different bore, etc... but you cannot ignore an A/B comparison. No, the head was not flowed prior to LW porting, but out of several stock swirls and, they all flow roughly 139-143 cfm for me (G heads didn't vary more than 3 cfm either). Never will one flow 130 and another 157. Never... Seen this even with severe core shifted 782s. They are such a low flowing head that the % translates into a very low cfm variance.

You know what? Even if they re-did the test with the LW head and a stock head both with the spark plugs out, a bore adapter in the headstand of 6 feet, a radiused inlet guide made out of a tuba.... they still will flow the same difference between the two, which was a 14% intake gain, and an 11% gain and not a 26% intake and 39% exhaust as advertised. As 5digits used to say... "factual information"

Now, as it may appear to you... just because me and Wallace have had heated debates does not mean I am trying to bring him down or see him close up shop out of this. He offers some very good products and is an asset to the community along with the few others that do this. Andre is a very good guy with very good skills.

If this were a FM head, a TU, or any other, I would point out the facts just like I have. All I am doing is backing up the "flowbenches vary" type of statements while not attacking LW.

[1FastCSX289]

Just an update from the USPS website:

Label/Receipt Number: 0306 2400 0000 6835 0612
Status: Notice Left

We attempted to deliver your item at 1:17 PM on March 5, 2007 in SALINA, KS 67401 and a notice was left. It can be redelivered or picked up at the Post Office. If the item is unclaimed, it will be returned to the sender. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please check again later.

Must have missed you Wallace, let me know when you go pick it up. Thanks.

[1FastCSX289]

Update. Wallace received the head yesterday. He is currently denying the refund because he didnt like the way that the box was packaged. He is going to take it over to his engine builder and have the head pressure tested because he thinks it may have internal cracks.

In regard to the packaging, when I received the head, it was shipped in a blue, plastic tote with pillows on the bottom, styrofoam household insulation on the sides to keep it from sliding, and a pillow on the top. It was zip tied shut. I thought it was a nice packing job and didnt even think of pressure testing the head when I got it.

When I sent it back, I used the same packaging materials except for the styrofoam insulation on the sides. I substituted with card-board instead. Same plastic tote, same pillows, zip tied shut, etc. I had the Post Office add the "FRAGILE" stamp to the top so that drivers would know to treat it with care.

Unfortunately, due to Wallace's busy schedule, we wont have any word on the head until Wednesday of next week and I will have to wait without a head and the 800 (which would allow me to have another head ported). Im sure his engine builder will contact me in regards to any cracks in my head so we can file a loss with the United States Postal Service.

[MOPAR2YA]

Ive been quiet until I had the head so I can check it out. I posted a picture as to the condition of the tote on TD.com when I received it, there was ZERO padding on the bottom it was just tossed in there, with some padding on top and a piss poor attempt of padding on the side. When you see it you will understand my abundance of caution. Sean has been misrepresenting and leaving alot of facts out here. I will post the facts as I have them, good bad or indifferent.

[1FastCSX289]

Thanks for your response Wallace. I feel better now that you have acknowledged my post publicly. When I initially asked you to respond to the thread (before I even posted), I wasnt asking you to respond to the facts that I presented. How could I ask for that without giving you the chance to review your work again? SO, if thats what you thought, I can understand your frustration. I WAS asking that you just acknowledge my complaint publicly so that I could feel good about shipping the head back to you.

Wallace, THANK YOU for posting the pic of that tote. I wish you told me there was external damage to the box. This is NEWS to me. I would like to assure you that I DID put packaging material under that head before it went off. And it was marked "INSURED" and "FRAGILE". The post office was aware of the packaging prior to shipment as well. Maybe something happened though? Im sure in the end, it will test fine. As testified to in this thread, those things can take a substantial amount of abuse......it is a big block of metal. And no, it wasnt my friends who packed it.......it was me.

I would like to add that I take some offense to the claim that I just "tossed" the head into the box and that I didnt put any padding under the head. I am also a little offended that you claim that I am misrepresenting facts.

So, before we proceed, lets establish what a fact is. You see, you CAN claim what YOU SEE as a fact. But, when you interpret my actions BASED upon what you see, you can no longer say that it is a fact. Kind of like you did in the example above. You cant say that I "tossed" the head in the box and made a piss poor attempt at putting packaging on the sides and the top. Im mean, you CAN say it, but you can't claim it as FACT because YOU werent there. Only me and the post office lady. Im gonna ask that you try and understand this concept before we proceed. If you look back over my posts, I really tried to stick to this rule. I made no interpretations of the facts because thats called opinion and I would like to leave my opinion out of this. And I will, as long as you can do the same. That way, it remains nice and civil. You know what im saying, Wallace?

Anyways, its too bad you cant drop the head off to the machine shop that I arranged for us. They are only about 4 miles from you and I will pick up the bill if it fails. They can also do the job on Monday so we would know sooner. But, I can understand why you want to use your guy.

Peace.

[1FastCSX289]

A little follow up from my previous post ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Let me give you an example here of what happens when one tries to interpret the facts.


because there was NO padding on the bottom of the head. It was just set in there.



it was just tossed in there, with some padding on top and a piss poor attempt of padding on the side. Sean has been misrepresenting and leaving alot of facts out here. I will post the facts as I have them, good bad or indifferent.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=yWK2LTavFGQ

So, you see if you stick to the facts than we can avoid saying things that are untrue and offending one another.

The good news is that we have video record of quality packaging. And, I am sure you made the Post Office on your end record the fact that the package was broken when you picked it up. This way, if there is an issue we can can visit the post office to be reimbursed for the core (which isnt much anyways).

[stampederunner]

Well I would say the head had more than sufficent padding.

[MOPAR2YA]

Although this issue is resolved, heres how it ended up when I received it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CkGcaQAq2U
This is the final post on this issue.

[1FastCSX289]

I did receive an 850 dollar refund from Wallace last night. If you want the whole run-down go over to Turbo Dodge. Heres the link:

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131713&page=3

I am done until we have some independent flow results. I think I can speak for the group when I say that we are anxiously awaiting the feedback.

[turbovanman²]

Glad to see you got your money back. :nod:

[1FastCSX289]

Glad to see you got your money back. :nod:


Glad you were there to help. :nod:

[MOPAR2YA]

If the head check good the money/refund was NEVER a issue.:amen:

I wont post again until I have results from a SF600 and a Sanez S600 bench. As I said I will post, good, bad or indifferent the numbers.

[turbovanman²]

We eagerly await your results Wallace.

[Nemesismachine]

WOW. based on how it was shipped, no wonder it looked like crap upon arrival. How can you in good conscience ship something like that? I know most of us TDers are cheap, but damn. If it's something that important, spend the money!! I had my head wrapped in plastic then FOAM sprayed around it to secure it. Not cardboard in a bin that holds camper dishes. I dont want the one part most important to the engine frigged up because I packed it wrong.

[Directconnection]

That is essentially the same packaging Wallace used to ship the head in the
1st place. Obviously, things settled and the head made it's way to the bottom.

[tryingbe]

When I ship head, I ususally put a old t-shirt under the head, put in it a box. And then put that box in a bigger box with packing material. Never have a problem.

[MOPAR2YA]

There you go again Steve trying to defend the indefensible without a fact to support you..

[Whorse]

I will post the facts as I have them, good bad or indifferent.



This is the final post on this issue.



I wont post again until I have results...

Hmmmm..... I have nothing to do with this thread at all but it wasn't hard for me to pick sides.

[Frank]

Stop it all!

[MOPAR2YA]

I agree Frank. Lock the thread or stop those who are not involved from posting.

[Frank]

Not going to lock it. People listen or I will have words with them.

[90Dodgevnt]

Well the other thread on TD.com was locked...

I am just curious what the final flow #'s on the head were?

Anyone??

And no, not flinging poo...just curious

[MOPAR2YA]

I have comparison numbers from another SF600 on that head, I hope to have another comparison from a Saenz S600 bench Friday. I have a stock comparison already done.

[JuXsA]

lookinf forward to hear about the results

[BF/STOCKER SPIRIT]

Well I Hope Everybody Is Friends Know Sheeeesh

[turbovanman²]

Well I Hope Everybody Is Friends Know Sheeeesh

Business is business, you can't mix up the two. If he paid for a high flowing head, thats what he should get, friends or not.

[UltimateSleeper]

were the numbers form the SF600 good?...is that the same machine that 1fastcsx's machine shop used? Looking forward to the results.

[1FastCSX289]

Since Wallace has responded over on TD.com with some interesting results, I figure I would post the video of my flowbench time. Just so we're all on the same page here on TM and we can all see what slasky, aries_turbo, and I have seen.....

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/wm/9b04a6b2-8888-4cf7-9c6e-98e4018b4f11.htm

[tryingbe]

Since Turbo Dodge is delete happy, I like to point out that.



Wallace used this Salina Engine shop to flow the head, and he below is what he said this about this very shop a week ago.

I wouldnt let Salina Engine oil my bike chain

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/sho...=131713&page=5

So, is this shop a good shop or bad shop? You can't have it both way!

[1FastCSX289]

Just so I can speak my last peace I would like to post here......for what it's worth. Honestly, some of the shots taken at me here were pretty rough....a lot of accusations that quite frankly came out of nowhere, but I can expect that. Whenever emotion runs high, people often miss what's right in front of them and I am going to chalk that up as the case here.

For the record, there is no conspiracy with Chris at TU. I honestly dont know the man. Ive been into turbo dodges for 10 years and have owned more than 10 cars in that time. I have spent a chunk of change on these things over the years. I have bought two ($100) items from TU. THats it. I have no allegiance to him whatsoever. I will probably be buying from him the future though, as I am pretty sure Cindy has a strong dislike for me now that this has unraveled.

There was also no conspiracy to pose as a buyer for a head so that all this could come out. I bought the head under the advice of Scott and Brian who nudged me to go with LWP over MPGmike. All I wanted was a bad --- head for my race car. My car is still sitting in my garage with no drivetrain it it. Im waiting on my local porter as we speak to get a head done. I am still very disappointed that I wont be running a 19x/17x head on my car. My machinist told me that it wouldnt happen. But, thats life. Crank up the boost, eh?

For the record, I honestly feel like I wasnt treated right. I feel that I paid for top notch and got bottom notch. I wont go into it anymore, let the testimony and video speak. This last explosion of posts was indeed to defend what I hold strong to as the truth. There was nothing else to gain for me, but to not see this happen to another TDer in the future. Thats it.

I made some allegations this morning that were untrue. For that, I am deeply sorry. Please understand that I did call Salina and talked to Dorothy and she swore up and down that there were no 4 cylinder chrysler heads on the bench in the recent past. I explained the situation to her and she knew exactly what the implications of her statement were. She was sure this morning. When I called back, she sounded very shaky on the phone and unsure of herself. She said that after talking to Wallace, she remembered him. I asked if he had a head flowed there and she said "kinda" and quickly moved to get her colleague on the phone to speak with me. That is the honest to goodness truth of the matter.

I still have serious questions on the way the head was flowed and why it was only flowed at .500 lift by a shop that was proclaimed as incompetent. I would feel a lot better if Brian Slowe flowed the head. And, for what its worth at this point, I did have a few PM converstations with Brian immediately after my initial phone call with Cindy who suggested Brian as a mediator. But, whatever. I know that Wallace will most likely decline this course of action and im OK with that. I know what I know and have done what I could do.

That being said, im gonna take Russ Jerome's advice and take a breather. Thanks for reading and hopefully my next series of posts will be on a lighter note!

P.S. Thanks for the Oscar. I would like to thank........

[turbovanman²]

Sorry it turned out so bad. If you want a decent head, get ahold of BadfastGTC aka Steve Menegon and/or 8Valves aka Aaron Miller.

[1FastCSX289]

Sorry it turned out so bad. If you want a decent head, get ahold of BadfastGTC aka Steve Menegon and/or 8Valves aka Aaron Miller.

The fact of the matter is that 176 on the exhaust with a stock valve is not do-able. I realize I was naive in assuming it could be done.

My machinist really stuck his neck out in a number of ways for me through this deal and spent a lot of extra time that he didnt have to. So, I want to give him the job (plus....hes only around the corner :eyebrows: ). But, thanks for the advice.

[Andre Parker]

I am one of the 3 owners of Lonewolf. I have been a machinist since 1990 and have been porting heads since that time as well. Wallace and I have worked together for over 4 years. I have full confidence in his port work and his ability as an ethical person. This head was first and foremost a stage 1 head. It is meant for a mild street car, not a full on, big valve drag car. We pride ourselves on customer service. If there ever is a problem, we'll fix it. we were not even given the chance to fix what ever was wrong. We have since had our bench recalibrated. which should be done anytime you move a bench. I usually stay out of the stupid public forum fights, but this one is an attack upon a company which I own. I am not in the business of trying to make shitty parts or screw people over. I'm tired of all the in fighting at turbomopar and turbo dodge. Guess what? we all like dodge vehicles, so why dont we knock all this silly horse ---- off on concentrate on making cars fast instead of this school yard antics of name calling and twisting things around so they sound like something that it is not.

Merge:
Wallace's work is just as good as mine as well. He does all the T3 work and most of the 8v stuff now. I do the neons, but I mostly just run the machine shop portion of it. If you want to lay some blame, then it should be me. We moved the bench from the machine shop to the wallaces until the new shop were finishing up in Salina is done. I should have gone through and recalibrated the bench. any time you move a piece of machinery like that you should but I didn't because I thought it would be fine. I found out the hard way that something moved inside and we now have a leak somewhere and were having it fixed. Wallace in no way, shape for form would try to decieve or cheat anyone. Hell, we both have keys to eachothers house, he's like a brother and if I didn't trust him, he wouldn't have free access to my house. I hope that we can all find a way to stop the fighting and go back to just being a good dodge community. That's always been as much of my attraction to dodge as the cars themselves. I want to attend another kick --- SDAC this year and have EVERYONE have a good time and enjoy a few cold ones.

[turbovanman²]

I see what your saying Andre but if I was Sean, I wouldn't want it fixed either. It wasn't sold as a Stage 1 job either and was sold as a extremely highly ported head so thats not a fair assesment and not twisting of words. As for your work, I've seen it and its top notch, thats why this job is so upsetting.

[1FastCSX289]

I am one of the 3 owners of Lonewolf. I have been a machinist since 1990 and have been porting heads since that time as well. Wallace and I have worked together for over 4 years. I have full confidence in his port work and his ability as an ethical person. This head was first and foremost a stage 1 head. It is meant for a mild street car, not a full on, big valve drag car. We pride ourselves on customer service. If there ever is a problem, we'll fix it. we were not even given the chance to fix what ever was wrong. We have since had our bench recalibrated. which should be done anytime you move a bench. I usually stay out of the stupid public forum fights, but this one is an attack upon a company which I own. I am not in the business of trying to make shitty parts or screw people over. I'm tired of all the in fighting at turbomopar and turbo dodge. Guess what? we all like dodge vehicles, so why dont we knock all this silly horse ---- off on concentrate on making cars fast instead of this school yard antics of name calling and twisting things around so they sound like something that it is not.

Andre, Ive got no beef with you. And, ive put my beef with Wallace aside. I agree that we need to get along as members of this community. So, at least can agree that the bickering should stop.

Just for the record, the head was sold as a "large port, stock valve head". Regardless, those are just names that cant be quantified. The flow numbers and the quality of the job are the issue.

Right now, Wallace and I are talking very civily about the possibility of a third party unbiased assessment of the head. I believe thats the only way to put this to bed finally.

Thanks for chiming in though.

[Russ Jerome]

If there ever is a problem, we'll fix it. we were not even given the chance to fix what ever was wrong. I usually stay out of the stupid public forum fights, but this one is an attack upon a company which I own. I am not in the business of trying to make shitty parts or screw people over. I'm tired of all the in fighting at turbomopar and turbo dodge. Guess what? we all like dodge vehicles, so why dont we knock all this silly horse ---- off on concentrate on making cars fast instead of this school yard antics of name calling and twisting things around so they sound like something that it is not.

Andre its great to read your post, been a while bud. I want to personely
apologize to you for everything I have read recently online. The TD thread
was locked by the owner and i did not reply further. Your work is beyond
question in my book, want to thank you again for all the work Lonewolf did.

You know my feelings on your statement about "making our cars faster", I'm
skipping future SDAC events and these forums as I feel like a total idiot being
associated with a number of members. Thanks again man, keep in touch!

[MOPAR2YA]

Russ, you have to make SDAC, your a icon.

[sdac guy]

Andre its great to read your post, been a while bud. I want to personely
apologize to you for everything I have read recently online. The TD thread
was locked by the owner and i did not reply further. Your work is beyond
question in my book, want to thank you again for all the work Lonewolf did.

You know my feelings on your statement about "making our cars faster", I'm
skipping future SDAC events and these forums as I feel like a total idiot being
associated with a number of members. Thanks again man, keep in touch!
Russ, as you know I am disgusted with all this too (as I mentioned to you in the admin section on TD ). A few days ago, as I was reading the thread there the thought crossed my mind that at the very least there could be some tense moments at SDAC17. In the last day or two my thoughts have changed to "I bet this will hurt the turnout at SDAC17." Ironic in a way, since I had not read any of this thread since a couple weeks ago, until your post was brought to my attention this morning.

Publicly, I have kept out of this as it is not my call to get involved. I think quite a few folks who have posted to the threads both on TD and here have done nothing to progress the situation or help at all. And it appears that with the emotion that has been thrown in, damage to the community has been done that could take years to heal, if ever.

It is a shame that making a situation public means that anyone with an opinion can comment, whether they have a vested interest in the topic or not.

I have recently let the moderation staff here know of my displeasure with the entire issue and how it has been handled. It is a disgrace to the community, nothing less.

My words to you Russ, and to everyone else out there also who has been disturbed by what they have read here and on TD are,

"Please don't let this skirmish of online words taint or diminish your enthusiasm for the cars we all love to drive, show, and modify."

We can grow above this, and as we do, it will prove what we have said time and again, it is about the people, the cars only bring us together (hopefully).

Barry